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Johnny Silverseed
Johnny Silverseed
By
Cognitive Dissonance
The Seed
I’ve been purchasing so-called junk silver coins every chance I get for the past 6 or 7 years. In fact I have standing orders at three local coin shops which I pick up on a monthly basis. Each of the shops has my credit card information so they don’t mind setting the silver aside since they’re assured they’ll be paid. However I make sure to pay in cash for obvious reasons. It’s so much easier to amass a precious metal cache if it’s added to on a regular basis. Like seeds carefully planted in the spring, there’s an inner joy derived from watching your silver garden grow all year long.
For those who aren’t sure what the term “junk silver” means, what I’m doing is buying quantities of old worn out 1964 and earlier US silver dimes, quarters and half dollars (along with the occasional handful of old Peace and Morgan silver dollars) primarily for their silver content. Because they’re well worn and any of the coins with collectable value have already been pulled, what remains are coins that are valued purely for their 90% silver content. Over the years I’ve accumulated several thousand coins this way along with my other precious metals.
After it was announced that silver would no longer be used after 1964, collectors culled the quality silver coins that had “numismatic value” from general circulation as well as from any private hoards and collections that came their way. Thus all the silver coins that were left were worn or damaged. Because these coins had no collectable value, those that remained were considered “junk” because the only thing of value left in each coin was the salvage value of the silver itself. And at the time this was barely equal to the face value. Isn’t it amazing how times have changed?
There are several advantages to purchasing silver in this manner. Since the coins remain US legal tender and at one point were widely distributed, they’re recognized and accepted the world over. Of course since the coins are 90% silver, one would be foolish these days to sell them for anything less than the value of their silver content. But their true value lay in the fact that since they are accepted worldwide both as legal tender and as silver bullion they’re extremely liquid and can be easily sold or bartered if the need arises. The same cannot be said about Grandma’s silver tea and flatware set.
In addition, because each coin’s silver weight is relatively small, the coins (valued by their silver content) are perfectly suited for small purchases. When, not if, the world’s population begins to fully understand what’s happening to their paper fiat currency, this attribute will take on even greater importance.
Finally, at this time there’s a relatively low premium charged by the seller over and above the silver spot price for junk silver coin. Meaning there’s a small markup when you buy in bulk. Bottom line, junk silver is extremely useful to the person who wishes to find an alternative store of value in small denominations.
Inception and Inspiration
About 6 weeks ago I sat down and began planning my Christmas gift giving. Of course this included tips for the various service and trades people I deal with, both as a small businessman and as an average Joe. As is my custom, I did an Internet search for the average holiday tip for various service persons to get an idea if my planned gift was in the ball park or if I would embarrass myself. It was at this time that I had an inspiration.
Coming from a poor family that rarely had much to begin with, as a child I was taught that it’s the thought and intent that really counts when giving gifts. Needless to say I learned real early in life to be creative. So in the past when holiday tipping I always made sure to provide cash and a small gift certificate or some other item of value that I knew the recipient would enjoy and which I always bundled up in a festive card. My holiday tips were always well received.
This year while brainstorming for alternative small gifts I began thinking about my true reason for giving. Aside from the usual social pressure to give, I really do wish to brighten the gift recipient’s day while sending a bigger message just like I was taught as a child. This led me to think about my community activism and the small ways I’ve touched people’s lives. What is always rewarding for me is when I can embolden or enable a person to act for the benefit of him or herself. This was the genesis of my idea.
Here on Zero Hedge we often talk about our frustration and the resistance we run into when talking to people about the various financial and social problems we’re all facing. Because we’re highlighting serious problems, but offering no real solutions, we are in effect creating emotional and psychological tension within those to whom we speak. In these situations, our desire is to avoid this tension by believing whatever we wish to believe, even if multiple beliefs are in conflict with each other. We are all walking talking cognitive dissonances, some more than others.
Is it any wonder then that our family, friends and acquaintances will do everything in their power to relieve this emotional tension? The result is that we are tuned out, ignored or outright rejected regardless of how illogical and self defeating their actions may be. We must remember that to the conditioned mind, it takes real courage to face its deepest fears. And regardless how unfair it may be to others, it’s not reasonable to expect the average conditioned mind to summon this courage without a little help from a friend.
Preparing the Soil
I’ve learned over the years that a negative idea will always be received poorly. By carefully choosing my words and considering how my message will be received, I’ve come to understand that even a seemingly hopeless situation can be rallied around if you give people hope and a reason to fight that they can make their own. This usually requires a positive approach if one wishes to generate a sustained effort.
This positive approach concept is the cornerstone of sales and even manipulation. So it’s often incorporated into political posturing, propaganda positioning and corporate sales initiatives. With this in mind, what is it that we’re giving to people when we talk to them about the problems they face? Are we giving them hope and a way out or just bad news and no realistic end to their misery? If you promise me a life in hell, what incentive do I have to strive for redemption?
I’ve tried striking up conversations with casual acquaintances about the financial situation in an effort to enlighten. The following is a condensed version of how the information usually goes down.
“Your government is screwing you by diluting your savings and cheapening your labor. The game is rigged in their favor to such an extent that they become richer from screwing you. We need to stop them, but it’s going to be a tough battle which we will lose if we can’t get enough people to join with us. So please sign here and put everything you have on the line fighting a corrupt government who controls the strings of power and who have all the guns.”
While this might not be exactly what I’m saying, the following is what they hear.
“Suicide bomber volunteers needed who are expected to pay their own expenses and die for the benefit of others.”
How attractive. With a pitch like that, why wouldn’t they choose to muddle along in denial rather than select hell on earth? Worse, aside from spreading doom and gloom, what exactly am I bringing to the table? Do I have any skin in the game? What am I doing about the problems I just shoved their faces in?
These are valid questions under any circumstances and they’re especially pertinent to the conditioned mind that long ago learned to stay safely within the herd and away from emotional danger. This old dog has slowly learned that if I’m going to make any headway I need a special attractor, a shiny object to grab their attention and lure them out into the open. I need to sell the sizzle, not the steak.
Planting the Seed
With this in mind I went to my stash and grabbed a handful of silver, then began to work my plan. I purchased some silver polish and shined up the old coins as best I could. Then I placed them inside cardboard display holders that contain a plastic window front and back to show off the coin. With a variety of old worn out dimes, quarters and half dollars wearing their best set of clothes, I turned my attention to the verbal and written message I knew was vital to my success.
I searched the net until I found a small wallet size chart showing the various US silver coins along with their individual silver weight and other characteristics going back to the 1800’s. Along the way I also located a second chart for the gold US coins to place on the back. I then laminated the chart to make them sturdy and substantial enough so they would last a long time. I wanted the charts to remain in their wallets or purses without deteriorating.
A major component of sales is to create a belief in the person that it’s in their best interest to act and then an urgency to act now. Often this is done by convincing the subject that the item offered has great value or at least much greater value than the competitor, but only if you act now. In order to help instill a sense of real value into my small gift of silver, I needed to exaggerate the emotional worth of the coins beyond their physical replacement price of $10 or $20 dollars. After all a sum that small is hardly a reason to challenge your beliefs regarding the government and the financial system.
To do this I needed to combine something of much greater value with the coin I’m offering as a gift. This is why commercials appeal to your ego or sense of self worth or safety or the social standing of you and your family, all things that are emotionally much bigger in your mind than the item for sale.
This would be accomplished in part with a simple one paragraph contract between me and the person I was giving the silver coins to. The contract required them to promise me they would give me the right of first refusal if they ever decided to sell or give away my gift. I wanted them to think “Wow, this must be valuable if he’s that serious.”
It didn’t matter if the contract was legally binding or not, just that it conveyed my sincere belief that what I was giving them had great value and if they didn’t want it, I wanted it back. If you think about it for a while, many things we want or already own have value to us simply because other people attach great importance to it.
I wanted to transfer my sense of appreciation for the silver coins to the other person. Otherwise it might become just another coin in their pocket. I needed to make it bigger than its monetary worth. I was trying to create ideological converts with this gift, not hand out beads and baubles at Mardi Gras.
If I couldn’t spend at least a few minutes with the person to explain my gift, I wasn’t going to waste my time or silver just giving it away. I was looking for fertile soil here so to be effective I needed time to nurture the seed. This required a few minutes of one on one quality time within the person’s comfort zone. So for some people who were just too busy to talk I just gave cash. Since I didn’t want to travel too far off the beaten path, the majority of the holiday tip would still be cash with the silver coin or coins acting as the icing on the cake.
With silver hovering around $28 an ounce by the time I was ready, this meant a silver dime was worth around $2, the quarter around $5 and the half dollar around $10. To prove this to the person I would make sure I kept in my pocket a printout of the price of silver as well as a pocket calculator to do the math. I also typed up a short list of 5 coin shops with 20 miles where they could go to purchase junk silver. I needed to give them the opportunity and ability to follow up by purchasing silver on their own.
Because I had three coins to choose from, I made sure the silver portion of the holiday tip always included at least two coins. I then put the cash in the cards but left the coins, contract and the laminated chart and coin shop list outside so I could make the pitch without the need for the person to open the envelope. I was almost ready to have some fun.
The last thing I needed was my elevator pitch. I needed to condense what I had to say down to five minutes or less, the most time I felt I could waylay anyone who was working. Short and to the point was paramount, but I also needed to hit all their hot buttons. Once I felt I had it down pat I practiced on my wife (always a sympathetic listener) and a few close friends.
Surprisingly, even though my wife and friends knew about my propensity for precious metals, all of them became excited when I practiced my pitch. I could see that the idea grabbed them in a way all my prior discussions about currency debasement and government corruption hadn’t. For the first time I began to think that maybe this could be the difference, however small it was, in my activism and recruitment against the Ponzi machine. I was fighting fire with fire and using the Ponzi’s own weight against it. Now I was ready.
Germination and Propagation
Over the following two weeks as I came into contact with the various people I had planned to give holiday tips to, I would thank them for their year’s service and then explain my gift. For example, the UPS guy is in my office at least once a week so he was an obvious choice for the holiday tip. We always talk for a few minutes and we’ve developed a casual friendship.
During the past two years he’s been coming in I’ve warned him on a few occasions that he should consider purchasing silver and gold. I would always get a non committal response. This time, after signing for the package I handed him his holiday card and thanked him. Then I said the following.
“Obviously you’re aware how tough the economy is. And despite what the government says, prices keep going up an up on many things we buy like food, gas, health care and so on. This year I wanted to give you a little something to protect a small portion of your money. But there’s a string attached.”
I had his undivided attention.
“You may not be aware of this, but up to 1964 the government made most of our coins out of 90% silver. They stopped because the price of silver was going to exceed the face value of each coin. Take a look at this chart.”
I then handed him the US silver coin chart and pointed to the various coins and their silver weight.
“As you can see, the quarter had a little less than two tenths of an ounce of silver, the half dollar about a third of an ounce and so on. The cost of the silver in 1964 was at most twenty five cents for the quarter, fifty cents for the half and so on.”
In fact, the silver cost may have been a little more or less back then, but it doesn’t matter. It was the concept I was trying to get across, not exact details.
I then picked out the quarter and half dollar I was giving him and I placed them directly into his hand. I did not hand the coins to him. This method of physical transfer is very important. As he raised his right hand to accept the coins, I took his right hand with my left hand and then placed the coins directly in his palm with my other hand. This is what you do with a person when you’re handing them something delicate or valuable. There is great psychological importance implied by this action.
“What do you think these coins are worth today?”
The answers always varied widely, but they rarely gave me a dollar amount higher than the present value. Regardless of the number they gave me I would say the following, modified for each person’s actual gift.
“Today the quarter is worth around $5 and the half around $10.”
I then pulled out the prior day’s closing price of silver and quickly showed the UPS guy how to calculate the price of each coin.
“You just multiple the price of an ounce of silver by point one eight, which is the weight of the silver in the quarter and point three six for the half dollar, to come up with the silver value for each coin. Those numbers are here on the chart.”
I then handed him the calculator and asked him to try. With my guidance, he quickly understood how to use the chart and calculator to figure out the price. This is important because it puts the power to determine value in his hands, not mine.
“So in less than 50 years the price of the silver has at least quadrupled, which makes sense because the price of everything else has gone up during that time. But silver or the other things don’t become more expensive. Your dollars become worth less and less every year. So it takes more of your dollars to purchase the same amount of silver.”
This always elicits a frown or puzzled look on their faces because it goes against what they’ve been taught; that the dollar is rock solid and stable. Most people really don’t understand inflation or currency debasement at all. So I make sure to repeat what I just said, only I use different words the second time to help it sink in.
“You need more dollars to buy the same gallon of gas than you needed 10 or 20 years ago. You need more dollars to buy the same size car or basket of groceries or a two bedroom home than you needed 10 or 20 years ago. Those things didn’t get more expensive; your dollars lost their value over that time so you need more dollars to buy the same thing today. This isn’t normal or natural. In fact it’s a deliberate act by the government. In effect, they’re stealing the value of your dollars from you because they’re printing dollars like crazy.”
While this isn’t a perfect explanation, it works for the purpose intended. To try to explain some of the finer details would quickly blank their brains. Stick to the basics and convey the idea, not the details. This is basic sales (and propaganda) technique. KISS or Keep It Simple Stupid.
Ready to Harvest
Now I just needed to seal the deal so I continued creating the image I wanted to plant in his mind.
“These coins are yours as part of your holiday tip. But there’s a catch. They’re going to become even more valuable very soon because the government has gone mad printing money. I want you to sign a promise that if you ever decide to sell or give them away, you’ll give me the first right to buy them back before anyone else. If you don’t want to sign that promise I won’t give you the coins, just the cash.”
Now I shut up. In the world of salesmanship I had just asked the customer to buy my product. A good salesman understands that at some point you must ask for a purchase decision and then shut your mouth. Often an uncomfortable pause follows. The first person to speak is generally the “loser”. If the customer speaks first, they most likely will buy. If the salesman speaks first, s/he has probably lost the sale. I wanted the UPS guy to “buy” the concept that his dollars are being destroyed. And that silver (and gold) can help maintain the purchasing power of his “money”.
The UPS guy thought about it for a second and then quickly agreed. I pulled out the contract and read the one sentence promise to him, signed both copies and showed him where to sign. I then gave him one copy and kept one for myself. Now the last thing I needed to do was provide him with purchase affirmation. We all need to feel we made the right decision after the fact.
“Here’s a list of coin dealers in the area where you can buy old worn out coins like these. They’re called junk silver and if you say those words they’ll understand. I suggest you try to buy $100 a month of silver and more if you can. You don’t need to buy collectible coins, just junk silver. Call ahead to make sure they have some in stock because they go fast. If you have a problem finding some, stop by my office and I’ll make a few calls and locate some for you. Is that a deal?”
I deliberately put my hand out to shake his hand and seal the deal. This is another important step. Remember that I had placed the coins in his right hand so now he needed to transfer them to his left hand in order to shake. This transfer of the coins from one hand to the other while agreeing to the deal is symbolic of his (unconscious) acceptance of the coins and the concept.
A few people had already moved the coins to their other hand so I deviated from my script a bit and asked for the coins back to show then a small detail. Then I placed them back in their right hand and immediately asked them to seal the deal. At this point the UPS guy, like nearly everyone else I did this with, had a broad smile on his face. My final act was to cement the big idea, meaning his budding liberation and emancipation, firmly in his mind.
“Don’t think of these coins as an investment because the price of silver will move up and down. Think of this as a way of protecting yourself from the liars and thieves in Washington DC. It’s your way of fighting back. Every time you purchase silver or gold, you’re saying to them ‘No more. You won’t steal the value of the dollars I just used to pay for my coins.’”
The look on his face was amazing. I had just turned a simple gift into a small act of revolt and liberation in exactly the same way the propaganda master Edward Bernays had conflated the act of women smoking with female independence and liberation. As I said before, I’m fighting fire with fire.
Teaching the Next Generation
The entire transaction never takes more than 5 minutes because I move it along quickly. If it takes too long, it becomes a burden for the busy person which in turn causes them to lose interest. I’m attempting to imprint an idea in a person’s mind so I need to move quickly with a rapid fire delivery of easy to understand concepts and beliefs.
BTW, the intelligence services call this a psychological operation or psyops for short. Now that you’re seeing some of the basic psyops concepts come together in seamless execution, hopefully you’ll take a closer look at what you’re being force feed on TV, in the newspapers and even in school.
As I said earlier, I see many of these people on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and the feedback has been very positive. All of them thanked me again the next time they saw me. Over half quoted me the price of silver without being asked. Of the fifteen people I gave holiday coins to, three told me they’ve purchased additional silver since then and several others told me they would buy more coins after the holidays. I call that success.
After the initial gift giving I found myself a bit disappointed because I didn’t want to think my project was limited to just one month of the year. Then I realized it didn’t need to be. During my normal week I eat at restaurants or engage other services where tipping is customary. There was no reason not to continue spreading the silver seed. Because of time constraints I couldn’t do it with everyone I tipped, but over the next 3 weeks I was surprised to find that it worked most of the time if I was committed to doing it.
Now I always walk around with some junk silver dimes and quarters mounted in cardboard in my pocket, along with the laminated wallet card and the current price of silver. I made the coin shop list even smaller and added it onto the laminated wallet card so now everything is on one card. I’ve dispensed with the written contract because for the most part I don’t know the people I’m giving coins to. This has the added benefit of cutting some time out of the transaction. But I still ask for a verbal promise to sell the coins back to me.
I always make sure I give some cash along with the coin so the person doesn’t feel like they didn’t receive a tip. Remember that waiters and waitresses depend upon their tips for a substantial portion of their income. If I would normally tip four dollars on a twenty dollar meal (a 20% tip) instead I give them two dollars in cash and a silver dime worth two dollars.
The key is to give them a reason to walk away smiling and energized, not to have them feel like they’ve been under tipped or even cheated out of a tip. The cash means they got a 10% tip and the coin was “extra”. If the restaurant is busy, I’ll actually begin the conversation about the tip as I’m ordering and spread it out over the meal. It’s such an unusual conversation that I find they remain interested because they know from the start they’ll be tipped.
I make sure to tell the person that I’m only doing this once and that now it’s their responsibility to protect themselves. It’s important to use the word “protect” because it places the coin in a different mental category. And I tell them it’s one and done because I don’t what them to see me as their savior or benefactor, but rather their educator or instructor. I’ve shown them what to do as well as how. Now go do it.
This has gone over very well, particularly in the restaurants. I make sure to go back to the same restaurant over the next few weeks, but I sit at different tables so I can give coins to the other people working there. This helps build excitement and buzz which generates its own momentum. I’ve actually had a few people ask for extra wallet cards so I make sure to carry plenty at all times.
Other than the time it takes me to clean and mount the coins and make up the wallet cards, there really is no cost for me to do this. Remember that in every case I’m splitting the tip I normally give between cash and silver coin or coins. So I’m not spending any more money than I would normally spend. There isn’t even an opportunity cost from the loss of future appreciation of the silver because I’m replacing the silver beforehand. That handful of silver coins I started with was replaced the day after I decided to go forward with my idea.
This is very important for in order for this idea to spread each person who decides to do this must not be burdened financially. Otherwise internal resentment might build which could quickly kill participation. While giving is important to building one’s character and maturity, it doesn’t need to be a hardship in order for it to be constructive all around. The emotional joy I receive from doing something positive and constructive for others is an added benefit. There’s just no other feeling quite like the pleasure of giving of oneself for charity sake alone.
Passing the Baton
Before I close, let me tell you about the latest development. From the start my intention was always to see if I could get the ball rolling. I didn’t want to be the only one moving the mountain one wheel barrel at a time. I had assumed it would pick up speed on its own and it has. But the other day I realized I might be able to convert some of those who have received my coins into someone who gives away their own coins if I could apply the right incentive. It was worth a try.
A little over a week ago the UPS guy came in smiling and quickly told me that silver had hit $30. He was one of the people who had purchased additional silver on his own (an important qualification because it shows he’s bought into the idea) and each week he showed me the two coins I gave him as if to prove to me he was keeping his promise. I mentioned to him I was giving away silver dimes and quarters as part of my tip at restaurants. Suddenly I had another idea.
I asked him how many silver dimes equal a silver quarter. He pulled out his chart (which made me smile) and told me it came to about two and a half dimes. I then offered him three dimes for his quarter, to which he quickly agreed. Then I made the new pitch. If he would give away one silver dime to three different people as part of a normal tip, I would give him six dimes in return when he was done.
He couldn’t give them to friends or family, but only as part of a transaction in which he would normally include a tip. I told him straight away that I wanted him to teach others like I had taught him and I would only do this one time to get him started. I would also give him extra wallet cards, but he would need to make his own after that. Essentially it would cost me about $12 in silver dimes to create a new teacher, cheap by any standard of measurement even if it didn’t take.
At first I could sense his reluctance and I suspected he thought it was a trick or that it would cost him money. But I carefully explained that since he was going to tip someone anyway, if he split the tip between cash and silver coin, it wouldn’t cost him anything extra to give away the silver. I gave him the $4 tip example and suddenly he understood. I sealed the deal by reminding him that he would actually double his money by giving it away. He would get two silver dimes for each of the three he gave away. But he had to give them away first.
As he turned to leave he paused, then asked me how I would know if he really did give the coins away. I smiled and asked him if he was trustworthy. He immediately stood a little bit taller and said of course he was. I quickly replied.
“Well then, that’s good enough for me.”
I cannot describe the smile that came over his face when he realized he was being trusted at face value without a contract or even a handshake. But what surprised me was that he never asked me if I could be trusted to give him the six dimes. After all, he had to give away his silver first; only then would I give him mine.
I’ve since made the same offer to the two other people who bought their own silver coins and all of them have accepted the deal. While it’s still early and I have no results to report, I can’t wait until the UPS guy comes in next week to hear how he did. It will be fun to see if my Johnny Silverseed has germinated and what the new sprout thinks about his own personal growth.
The most powerful force in the universe is the seed of an idea that is embodied and made real, first in our minds and then with our hands. Often the cost of implementation is minor except for the activating ingredients, those most precious and rare elements called imagination, inspiration, initiative and leadership. But in the right hands, your hands, a seed carefully selected and nurtured to germination knows no limits to its growth and propagation. Look within yourself and discover those rare elements. Then become a Johnny Silverseed and cast your ideas to the wind to be the change you wish to see.
Cognitive Dissonance
01-02-2011
Special thanks to WilliamBanzai7 for the artwork below.
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I've actually been thinking about this. When I come up with something I'll pass it on.
Don't dilly-dally. We have faith in your ability to craft this message. It is surely needed.
BTW, well done on the Silverseed action.
Truely a great idea. This seems much more like project sanity than project mayhem. Thank you CD.
Project Sanity. I like that. It has an egalitarian "power to the people" ring to it.
It was never my intention to get these people to shift a major portion of their savings or income to silver or gold. I am trying to energize and embolden them, to give them a positive action plan to build upon. The disenfranchised must first believe they can break free long before they will actually do so. This is why ideas are so dangerous to an oppressive power.
CD, love your work, but surely you must realize that per capita, available world silver stores (i.e. in the crust + above ground) amounts to 2 silver dimes. The UPS guy is gonna get his, but somebody in Africa is fucked...
Great idea and kudos for following through. I gave an uncirculated silver maple for all my tips this year and for many Xmas gifts. For some I explained why, and others I simply gave the coin and told them how much it was worth and that it might make a good luck charm. Every now and then, when the bill justifies it, I will offer a waitperson the choice of FRN's or a silver maple for a tip.
The point being that I think it really important that silver (and gold to the extent that it can) be the people's money. I want the concept of silver as money to be accepted far and wide - in advance of any huge run up in price. The further distributed the idea of silver as money is, the better the prospects for silver as money are. IMHO, the 'worst' thing to happen would be a huge run-up in price before enough people own the metal. Then, silver might be viewed as a metal of the 'rich' or the 'prepared'. Where I think it would be better for it to be the money of the people, where no one feels left out after some huge shortage or price squeeze. So, I applaud the 'spreading of the message'. Happy New Year to all...
CD what you are doing is VERY important.
Thank you.
Never forget, ideas are REAL things.
Coin dealers are always happy to sell junk at melt value because there will never be a market for it. The listed market for silver may be $28 an ounce, but let's see you sell it back to a dealer for that! They have bills to pay, although most are fronts for illegal activity. It's hard for me to fathom how most small business can even pay the electric bill without selling crack or fencing stolen goods out the back. Have you ever looked at rent space at a strip mall? The full cost of one employee much less whatever the owner needs to pay for their own lifestyle?
You can sell it on E-Bay but like business owners there is an "opportunity cost". The effort to package, label and ship a sale is not a business expense you can write off to the IRS and any profit made has no capital gain allowance for time held.
The uniqueness of the gift is admirable. They may throw it in a drawer or actually buy more, but probably not.
Like most collections or gifts of this sort it will likely be stolen long before it is resold.
Still, you believe and obviously enjoy it and that has it's own reward far beyond whatever monetary benefit, real or imagined, your efforts may harvest. .
3rd Coast is incorrect about write-offs and selling on eBay. I have an S Corp
that already was structured to sell inventory online, I added gold and silver coins
to my business plan. My corporation buys it, holds it, sells it, tracks it as inventory.
All expenses related to shipping and storing are completely legal write-offs. I encourage
other coin collectors to step up to the corporate plate and learn
to legally do coin trading with pre-tax dollars. With luck, we may grow
enough this way to create some real jobs for others! My eBay fees cap at $40, so selling an ounce of gold is 2.85% for eBay, 2.2% for Paypal, 1.8% for insured shipping.
My local consignment shop demanded 10%, and things stayed in the case
for weeks. Do your math, learn your trade.
Haysoos, dude. I don't know what you're smoking, but you should probably quit.
My brother just sold some rounds at a local coin shop. Shop was selling for 30.30, he got $29. Not bad considering the oppty costs, and that he bought when silver was $8-$10.
The ebay avenue is soooooooo over with, its not even funny.
Yeah, tell me about it. I closed over $2,700 in auctions this evening. Profit margins are above 35%. I feel terrible... All those commemorative silver rounds are gone and it's time to load up on some Eagles.
+1
ebay = so 2002.
I'm sorry, but that is utter nonsense about coin dealers not willing to buy it back. The junk coins trade in line with silver minus the binders to make it a coin (10%). I have sat at my dealers and watched him buy in $1000 of junk coins at market and sell them instantly to another person at the shop for a small mark-up. He treats it no differently than gold or recently minted coins. There is a formula he strictly adheres to and is more than happy to keep it for himself (although he has boatloads of it stored somewhere along with his gold).
+1
This ThirdCoastSurfer is either woefully misinformed and/or uninformed, or more likely just another PM-hating troll. I find it hard to imagine that anybody with honest intent could have made such a ridiculous, bitter and fallacious post.
"TurdToastSniffer"?
I'm trying to decide which is greater, your ignorance or your dickishness..
If there is "never a market for it", then how and why are there any coin dealers selling it in the first place, asshole? I guess all those coin dealers have just been sitting on all that 90% silver for 45+ years waiting for a sucker to dump it off on, is that it?
Second, if you expect to buy ANYTHING at the same price for which a retail dealer is going to buy that item back from you, you are in for a lifetime of bitter (and utterly ignorant) disappointment.
"Fronts for illegal activity"? Care to provide ANY evidence for such a sweeping and uninformed accusation?
I think we have our new incarnation of JohnnyBravo here, folks!
I got a chuckle outta that one. My wife would be surprised to hear that I was such a scumbag. The fella obviously knows nothing about business, let alone the coin business.
Yeah, Rocky, I know I really shouldn't kick the puppy, but it's hard not to when it comes at you snarling and snapping right out of the gate.
Silver is monie, plain and simple. It is fungable, more than anything else. It is a unit of account, weighed by whatever measurement as ounces, stones, and tonnes. It is a medium of exchange, as silver does trade in bullion for resource. Finally it must maintain its wealth. Silver has a longer halflife than almost all worldly resources.
Get monie!
Mr. L-H,
Are your misspellings intentional and intended to amuse, like a rapper for example? Coz, I tind to skep ohver ur postz beecuzz ov itt...
Buying PM with credit cards. What a novel concept.
No I don't buy the PMs with my credit card. The coin shops hold the silver for me each month because they have my CC info. I always pay in cash. It's my business alone that I own PMs, not the government's.
I was just thinking most bulk dealers in PM will not allow anyone to pay with credit cards for some reason. Not really sure why? Maybe it just goes against their overall philosophy. Not to mention the paper trail. But the paper trail is coming fast, with the new reporting law that goes into effect (as of now) in Jan 2012.
If you run into anyone, coin dealer or otherwise, who won't accept credit (or debit) cards, it's usually because of the premium the card processor charges. For small shops and business's that premium could be as much as 5 or 6% of the sale. After expenses, that 5 or 6% might be their net profit margin.
The coin shops hold the silver for me as a courtesy because I'm a long term customer who spends some money there every month. But they still want to get paid if I don't show up, even if they don't make any money on that sale. Thus they wanted my CC info. I had no problem with that.
Read the ads in Coin World. You can see the differences in pricing.
Think of the nasty eBay/Paypal fees that eBay sellers are paying. I can ride the overhead because the original prices were so low anyhow. I'm selling numismatic coinage out of inventory and stocking up on junk silver and Eagles. The numismatic premiums are shrinking fast on the mid-range stuff. I'm taking that premium and using it to scale up to "negotiating coins". Selling the junk gold as well, like common rings, bracelets, and such.
CD:
Great article, great idea!
You are 100% right about the card processing fees being the reason why many dealers are loathe to accept credit cards. There are a couple of guys I deal with that will accept them, but the transaction fees get tacked on to the bill.
Nice way to break through the hurdle of the currency being perceived as a fix store of value. It's amazing the mind job, people are routinely robbed and they don't even know they are being robbed much less who is robbing them.
Even some people who realize the game won't go to PMs. One of my best friends understands the inflation system, but won't get into the metals because of the 80's boom/bust, so he is playing markets. Another is ex-military and after I explained the inflation game didn't buy metals but instead started buying guns and ammo with his spare money. Both these guys are single and have low time horizons. But one of my friends with a family moved all in on the metals (retirement account) and more then doubled up on his silver buy. His family of course thought he was crazy for listening to me. But people will respond to the robbery truth in different ways, your way is probably really good at guiding them towards PMs. Most people I know who I talk to totally believe my inflation/debasement argument but are leery of the metals, might have to try this one.
CD, excellent post with a simple, effective idea that was genuinely expressed in human terms. Please point us to your reference for the wallet card with the conversion factors. I want to further this idea with friends & family. My gifts to family this year were all with silver coins. Let's spread some seeds....
I just printed this web page and shrunk down the actual information I need with my office copier so that it would fit within the footprint of a credit card. If you needed to, you could create your own card using a word processor and this info. Using color might make it more noticeable. Use your imagination.
http://www.mountainviewcoins.com/gold-silver-content-us-coins.php
Any coin shop carries the coin holders in various sizes or you can buy then online via eBay etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/100-2x2-QUARTER-BCW-CARDBOARD-COIN-FLIPS-HOLDERS-NEW-/310225229484?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item483add56ac
Here's the link to more suppliers:
http://coins.shop.ebay.com/Holders-/39476/i.html
Great; thank you for the reference. I think this "idea" has legs....
Funny you have posted this today as I'm going through my silver dimes to sort them out after my last purchase. Very timely indeed. There's nothing like feeling the coins in one's hand & the ring when they're dropped on the table. It's the real thing.
If I were back in the good old USA, I would implement this plan immediately. Not much I can do with it in Hong Kong, but mail the idea to my friends back home, which i have already done.
My only question is why didn't you post this before the Christmas gratuity season? ;-)
Eat a Peace?
Hell, he's giving us almost a full year to ramp up. What do you need?
Sheesh!
yes it is easier to be a critic than an artist. i did a smaller scale version of this with some nieces (silver eagles, maple leaves) with the comment of accumulate precious metals. it is better than nothing and, in fertile soil, may be very much indeed.
There is more than one kind of peach to eat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kb2x0D584c
Sometimes I can be brain dead. :>)
I didn't really know if it would work until a few weeks before Christmas when I began to shift from holidays gifts to simple tipping. Then my focus was on changing my tactics and moving forward. It never occurred to me to write about it until a few days ago when I sat back and appraised the over all result. Then the light went off that others might be interested in hearing about what I was doing.
While it would have been nice to get others involved for the gratuity season, I'm proving that every day is gratuity season. As with all good ideas, it's the intent and execution that's more important than anything else. I wasn't sure if it would work during the act of "normal" tipping. But as I explained in the article if my mind was focused on making it work I nearly always found a way. At times I've felt my project has a mind and energy of its own.
This comment may draw in record junks, but I have to wonder why people so good at spotlighting Wall Street and govenment frauds turn right around and do the Xmas fraud, the biggest follow-the-herd-right-over-the-cliff sheeple event of the year, playing right into the hands of the very corporatists they bash throughout the year.
I'll consider each junk the pitiful bleating of another sheep voicing their fraudulent two-faced disdain at being called out.
The enemy is the brainwashed mind. You can convert the enemy, but you must get through to them in order to do it. Use the "Christmas" holiday as your chance to do it. The methodology behind the holiday allows for one to introduce new code (silver) to a corruptly programmed mind. If by chance the new code takes hold - it potentially opens the doorway to purging all of the old bad programming out of the brainwashed mind. It takes time, patience, and resolve - but if you don't try, you are not a sheep yet certainly not a soldier in this struggle. I don't care if it's Ramadan, Kwanza or Hanukah or any other festival - it's all about winning the mind and winning/ending the war.
The most inflective point from CD's post, for me, was the import behind the meaning of giving. That gift giving has debased into tranfers of baubles and beads, based on tit for tat accounting, ie "I gave him one but didn't get one in return" and the debasing commercialism tied to it is what you seem to be pissed with.
Fair point but I have just been rejuvinated in my practice of offering gifts of silver to family and friends, for all occasions. The look of disappointment in offering silver coins as presents has left me feeling inadequate. This should change things around.
Thanks CD. This is just another seed of yours that has bloomed. On reading this, "It's the thought that counts" is no longer a tired cliche`.
Al.
Actually - from an armchair historian - as I understand the Christmas story, the Christians chose late December to coincide with the Pagan holidays - in order to escape notice. In the same vein, CD is using the xmas tipping tradition to introduce an anti-establishment message. So, no - not falling into the corporate Xmas at all. In fact the opposite - encouraging awareness and saving and not consumption.
No junks for you, it's an honest question. It's called Christmas you dumbass battle axe. It's got nothing to do with corporatism and everything to do with fun and tradition and celebrating the birth of Jesus ( now that will get some junks Grampa, watch and learn). Do it like CogDis and holy shit someone might even emancipate their brainwashed mind. Keep coming back.
You are indeed cranky!
Great hair/great band/great song!
He should have stayed married to Cher.
and great idea ;-)
Got my E Pluribus Fool Em mouse pad today.
Cool item but man does it stink. Thinking I'm gonna have to leave it outside for a week to air that nasty chinese rubber smell away.