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JP Morgan Denies It Holds More Than 90% Of The Copper Market... No Statement On Whether It Holds 89%

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Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:48 | 805138 the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

white collar criminals print more money than you can count.


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:52 | 805204 Bearster
Bearster's picture

Yup.  It is "criminal" to buy copper.  Oh, wait, no it isn't.  It is criminal to buy a "lot" of copper.  People need to be forced to do what we want them to do, in order to keep them free.  Or not keep them free, but keep the market free.

Somehow forcing JPM to buy one kind of future (silver) and sell another (copper)  keeps markets free.  Somehow.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:57 | 805224 the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

it's criminal for the fed to back these fuckers with infinite purchasing power so they can do whatever they want in markets. then if they go belly up, the fed bails them out.

oh wait that's what happened in the housing boom.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:59 | 805237 Obaminator
Obaminator's picture

JPM and all the rest of the fuker banks cried kicked and screamed in 2007 & 2008. They were "On the brink"...then 2009-2010 they report the 2 best years ever in bank revenues.


Why? How? - Well, lets just put it this way...: they are taking back every fukn dime they lost from Helocs and UNderwater houses, but they are doing it from the entire world right now. Will it be enough to cover the Losses once they report them? Maybe...I have a hunch JPM will survive and BofA or Wells will die.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:03 | 805250 the mad hatter
the mad hatter's picture

the central banks won't let that happen.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:28 | 805616 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

"central banks won't let that happen" it's not Lehman 2008 nor the Royal Bank of Scotland...the new theme is system stability, or the illusion....and the many mini-flash crashes have been a continuing TEST of NET negative (bounce-back) feedback in the loop...resiliance...

DOING GODS WORK, more than just Goldman, JPM is preventing copper from crashing in price, asset prices must be held up that is the agenda for now...Chile, what with its earthquake as supplier of copper MUST sell at whatever low price the market 'discover' excepting that DEMAND/HOARDING by JPM is preventing THAT...good...

SO, PER ZH things i did not know: ""Last week, ETF Securities' physically backed copper, tin and nickel exchange-traded products (ETPs) made a tentative debut in London, as investors sought to gauge sentiment ahead of potentially larger offerings.""

""Deutsche Bank said in October ETPs backed by copper could hold 300,000 to 400,000 tones of metal.""

""Concerns that ETPs will exacerbate tight supplies of copper helped propel prices higher""

""And while the LME sees no problems with cartel-like behavior, throw in some synthetic products like ETFs and ETPs and you will soon get total confusion""

Seems to me, what with ALL THE NEW MONEY = debt old/newly created, that INDEED, asset prices SHOULD be pushed up, so as to encourage industrious digging for new copper, nickel, and zinc (reminds me of the OLD RioTinto Zinc company)

...all part of the PIMCO "new normal" get used to it, don 't fight it, some 'crumbs off the table' is being allowed, for the Retail/DayTraders, etc..Equities prices are being permanently pushed higher, with a Bernacke/central bank 'PUT' don't fight the Fed, and now the Worlds Entire Banking Cartel...don't resist, go with the flow, BUT PUT 99% of your speculative efforts into being ready to U-TURN on a dime... within a few minutes/few hours at most..

Doing Gods work, yes..when ONE BANK in the USA can match and beat China in the copper trade/stockpiling....well, VERY VERY interesting...

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:51 | 805713 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:43 | 805149 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

I REALLY hate those fucs, and will scream with school-girl like joy the day they are fully exposed and hung out to dry.


In the mean time, I continue to buy physical to do my small part toward their destruction.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:51 | 805198 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

I vowed many years ago to hang the American flag again once Cheney meets his maker.


Fully exposed may never come to be but for those who can read between the lines, exposed and ruined may have to be good enough.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:33 | 805380 flacon
flacon's picture

The CFTC really needs to stop condoning criminal behaviour. 

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:42 | 805157 johny2
johny2's picture

This is so wrong. How can they still keep this going on? 

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:40 | 805416 assumptionblindness
assumptionblindness's picture

What's so wrong?  Is it wrong for JPM to make some money as they lob derivative mortar shells on behalf of Uncle Sam over the Pacific?  JPM is only one of many soldiers that have been enlisted to fight in our yet 'undeclared' currency/trade/Zhu Zhu Pet manufacturing war with China.  The outcome of this war for us, however, more likely resembles what happened to France at the Maginot Line than our recent experiences with extended-stay stalemate'victories' in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan... 

The Fed has pissed away the reserve currency status for the dollar.  New York has lost it's title as "The Financial Capital of The World."  Lack of effective regulation at the Fed/CFTC/SEC/FINRA(hee hee) has destroyed all confidence that global investors may have had in price discovery and market efficiency within our borders.  The costs of social programs and over-priced benefits have driven productive capacity overseas...oh yeah!  How could something so wrong be so right?

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 18:29 | 806235 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

"The costs of social programs and over-priced benefits have driven productive capacity overseas..."

Greed is what sent jobs overseas.  Germany seems to be doing OK.


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 19:30 | 806422 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Then you'd better use greed to bring it back. Threatening to treat capital like shit certainly isn't going to do it.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:45 | 805166 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Blackhawk Ben S. Bernanke doesn't "print" monie.

Wed, 12/15/2010 - 00:05 | 807062 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

He excretes it

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:46 | 805172 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

He became a man the day of the greatest game he ever played. Everything he ever knew about common decency and morality he learned that day in December from Alan "The Horse" Ameche; and today in the Superbowl he would earn his wings. The crowd had assembled; a crowd of America's elite. Toyata salesmen from all around the country -- orientals and even those suspected of being orientals -- stacked on the thirty yard line watching him sweat and wipe caked blood from his face. The Gallow brothers -- Ernest and Julio -- party guys who had skinned a few Mexicans and forced them to carry them on their shoulders down to the pre-game tailgate parties at the colosseum. The Pepsi and Coka Cola bottlers of America -- Coke adds life; It's the real thing -- bombarded by missiles; flying flaming matchbook covers. The waterheads from General Motors up in the top seats where they belong; getting the worst of the pollution. All sorts of weird mother****ers were at the game.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:02 | 805248 merehuman
merehuman's picture

as an outsider and dumshit i see a different view.

I see china bearing down on rare earth minerals, now i see JPMorgan on the frontline of the war with china. Making copper more expensive for china is a retalliation from our side.

I dont see this ending well. Meanwhile china is trading its remaining dollars for all the hard goods it can get. Including silver and gold. As i see it we are at war with china and these are the beginning blows.

My point of view sucks.


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:25 | 805338 rlouis
rlouis's picture

Interesting thought that this is retaliation for the Chinese rare earth metals play.  I was wondering what the Chinese are demanding from JPM to keep them from taking down the copper market.  I think they're big enough to blow JPM out of market. 

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:38 | 805658 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

"" copper market.  I think they're big enough to blow JPM out of market""

China? ARE they "big enough?" maybe WE have overestimated or been propagandized to think of China in the manner of thinking about Japan in the 1980s  - when some Japanese bought the Monterey california Pebble beach concession for 2 billion... and forced to liquidate at less than 1 billion just a few years later....

After all, China does have Internet and all those 95% OTHERs in China, making STILL low low wages....WANT some of the Wealth OR ELSE...quite a economic burden for China to "bootstrap" itself up with 95% ball and chain expecting 'communal, communistic, sharing'

Yes, perhaps JPM is 'instancing' the real Political/Economic power situation..



Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:33 | 805635 A Texan
A Texan's picture

The ironic thing is that we have PLENTY of rare earths - with the only problem being the pollution connected with extraction (they are mainly located with thorium, which is radioactive).  If we really wanted to, we could have plenty of rare earths and sink their price so as to remove that card from the Chinese hand.  All that's needed is the willpower to pass a law exempting this from most environmental regs (though we still want some control over it, hence "most").


A side benefit would be that we could (again, if we wanted to) build a bunch of thorium-powered reactors and screw the Arabs and Chavez in the process.  Oh, and we'd employ a bunch of people right here in this country to mine and process both the metal and the thorium, plus folks to build and operate the new nuke plants.  Everyone's a winner (except for folks that don't like this country too much, including enviro-whackos).

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:49 | 805699 revenue_anticip...
revenue_anticipation_believer's picture

""The ironic thing is that we have PLENTY of rare earths - with the only problem being the pollution connected with extraction (they are mainly located with thorium""

and of course, THORIUM based nuclear power reactors, the old 'prolifereation arguement is null and void'  (well yes there is cooked-up a little artificial U233 !! in the process...

I'd think THAT is essentially factual, we HAVE the metal minerals, but will not produce them...'environmental concerns' and 'too low a World Market sustainable price..   exemplication is the famous Stillwell Platinum Mining operation - DID EVERYTHING ENVIRONMENTALLY CORRECT, yet STILL FUCKED..mostly....

a LITTLE bit of the old WARTIME emergency banter is required, to restart the Strategic Metals Stockpiling Programs....to sustain the USA/Canadian mining companies with a permanent, known buyer/market...

(dr Strangelove)  'what we have here..is a mining gap, USA and China/Russia, must catchup, become strategically independent of potential 'enemy country suppliers'   a little of the 1950's and 1960's thinking, pretend War Mongering...could be useful...more of Gods Work in Progress..

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 16:03 | 805765 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ merehuman, I find that your point of view rarely sucks.

Take advantage of the war with China!  Front run them!  Buy PMs and get all the nickels you can from the banks (each nickel is worth $0.065 now)!


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:48 | 805183 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

"A spokesman for JPMorgan, asked by Reuters to comment on the market talk, said the company did not hold more than 90 percent but declined to comment further."

Maybe they meant literally? 

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:26 | 805340 Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

Wouldn't it be neat if JPM did not read the fine print and somehow holds paper copper?

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:48 | 805185 detersbb
detersbb's picture

At this point the only reason for taxpayers to fund regulatory agencies is to protect bankster monopolies at no expense to the bank's bottom line.  This really is a perfect circle jerk.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:48 | 805186 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

I did NOT have 90% financial relations with that copper market.



Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:53 | 805213 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

LMAO!! +100


Tue, 12/14/2010 - 22:01 | 806849 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

91% ???

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:49 | 805190 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

This doesn't have to be owned by JPM itself, correct?

Couldn't it be a JPM client account that they are holding in their name?

If so, I would bet it is Chinese, and they are very offsides.   The Hung brothers, if you will.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:49 | 805453 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Good point...also, I would not be too worried about a copper shortage...IMHO I'd be more worried about a glut with a corresponding crash in its price....think about where the big demand is for copper......so you'd have to believe the construction industry worldwide is running in high gear....

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:51 | 805200 trav7777
trav7777's picture

banks have no business in futures markets.  Only producers and consumers should have seats.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:57 | 805226 Bearster
Bearster's picture

Ahah.  Now I understand the principle.

In order to force markets to be free, only people we say, are allowed to trade.

You obviously feel that speculators serve no valid purpose.  And obviously you feel market makers serve no valid purpose.  History is full of economic illiterates whose feelings told them who did and did not serve a valid purpose.

I am fine with that, until the fools pick up a gun (or lobby the government) to coercively implement their fool whims by force on everyone else who does understand what purpose market makers and speculators serve.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:02 | 805247 Obaminator
Obaminator's picture

Banks, who's primary Mandate, under Federal Law, are to take deposits and make loans based on Sound Accounting Practices with those Deposits Such that those deposits are SAFE.


Banks buying Stocks, Commodoties and High-Risk "Investments" Break Every Fukn Last rule, and Law concerning banking, and then they get Bailouts when those risky positions Blow up.


Thats what the fukn problem is...not speculators...its Who is Speculating with WHOM's money - jackass.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:06 | 805263 merehuman
merehuman's picture

hit that nail on the head! Oh and dont forget the jobs outsourced. Thats our national big pain also

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:28 | 805355 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fuck corporations.  Fuck the interest of usury.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 16:15 | 805809 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ Mr Lennon! 

Corporations are useful for many things like selling bearings in Peru:


(in Spanish, and we are still working on it, still a little rough.)


And I would not loan money to anyone(except to a family member, etc.) unless I got some interest to balance the risk I would take.

So who would then get credit?  World trade grinds to a halt.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:05 | 805265 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Speculators play a role as well (insuring against supply gaps, namely), but individual positions should be limited by the exchanges to ensure their own stability.

Banks should be able to speculate all they want (subject to the limits placed upon them by their shareholders and the exchanges they operate on).  The problem we have is the link to the central bank and the infinibux they supply them with.  If their asses were really on the line, they wouldn't dare pull any of this garbage, and if they did, they would be gone the instant anything goes wrong and we wouldn't have to hear from them any more.

The exchanges can set the rules as they like, of course.  The point is that speculation does provide a valuable service to the market, and that anyone playing with their own money should be able to do what they like.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:08 | 805534 Larry Darrell
Larry Darrell's picture

anyone playing with their own money should be able to do what they like.


I just wanted to highlight this point again for the "Bearster"

I figured he missed the point the first 2 times (first from Obaminator then from you).

After all, if he's not a total shill that means he's just fucking stupid, and with stupid people, you have to repeat a lot, slow it down, and spell out the important parts.


Did you catch that yet Bearster you fucking moron???

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:37 | 805651 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Amen, brother. 

Wed, 12/15/2010 - 00:07 | 807069 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Those bums built these for different types of casinos.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:52 | 805206 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Why doesn't China go on a quick silver binge to hedge against JPM's copper hoarding.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 18:42 | 806285 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I think maybe they are, JPMs hedge against shorts on silver was long on copper?

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:53 | 805214 Lotionboy
Lotionboy's picture

These crooks are going to be toast when the dollar crashes next year!!! I love it.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:56 | 805218 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

CNBS should be reporting that increased yields in T's means a healthy sustained recovery is expected next year!!!


Except that, they forget to mention, they're really expecting stagflationary hyperinflation...


Hey TD: How much has the Fed now lost in T's? $31 BILLION? Wipes out their "gains" from the TARP! LMAO!

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:57 | 805225 Obaminator
Obaminator's picture

What happens when you own everything, and then something happens that makes nothing valuable? HAHAHAHAHA

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:57 | 805229 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

That's when you hope you've got a gun. A BIG GUN!

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 15:38 | 805662 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

...or a lot of friends with medium-sized ones that they can actually hit something with.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 13:57 | 805233 erik
erik's picture

so they are trying to sterilize any losses going forward in silver shorts by gains in copper longs?

won't other big money smell blood in the water and go heavy short copper and long silver?

when China finally raises rates, copper could plummet, but silver may not drop as much, thus more losses for JPM.

Tue, 12/14/2010 - 14:00 | 805242 erik
erik's picture

doesn't that make going long silver and short copper a really good opportunity?

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