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The JP Morgue Whistleblowers Are Back
Promptly after those two cuddly bears explained how the JP Morgue is manipulating the silver market, and the xtranormal video went viral, forcing the FT to release an indemnification that "according to sources" JPM had covered a major portion of its silver short (only to subsequently end up with 90% control of other metals markets), here they are back, explaining in Part 2 of the series just what the next steps in the unwind of the biggest metal manipulation scheme will look like. The kicker: a JPM insider has told one of the bears that there is no commercial silver left, "it's all smoke and mirrors, and the CFTC can do nothing about it other than pray." Other topical items explained: silver backwardation, that there are two commissioners at the CFTC on the JP Morgue's payroll, the BIS' fractional gold system and the usage of side pockets for sovereign gold, and pretty much everything that ties the loose odds and ends in the PM manipulation story.
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+.1
I say fiat is horrible expensive, all real things are a bargain, gold and silver especially so
Just going by the historical ratio of 14:1 shows silver today should be at $80! Your 'feelings' about things coupled with a complete lack of knowledge does not make you a genius! Far from it!
When silver was at $6, everyone was convinced Paulson if given a blank check could not only ward off certain martial law, but save the economy and promised the banks would be innocent and honest as little angels from then on as they'd 'certainly learned their lesson this time'. Yea.
exactly. i hated silver at $6. i loved it at $20. i still love it. we are clearly fucked. this was not as clear to me when silver was at $6. As i connected more dots, $20 did make sense. I'm glad I traded the fiat for the physical.
Good observation chopper. I wish I had loved it more at $6 too.
well said chop. I loved it so many times under $20 it almost broke my heart on margin...I even started to doubt... But when I saw it break $22 I went all in physical because I knew it was all true. Even if pos limits are 2012 or 2015, and even if they get it back down 30% or more again I will buy and buy until they die...
agreed, fellas. it will never go to zero, and will probably stop going higher when governments stop lying. it was likely a miracle when Volcker restored the faith in fiat in '81. I suppose it made sense back then, but this time it is entirely doubtful that this is even a possibility outside of an extreme rate hike and subsequent great, great depression.
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/fiat-paper-bubble-run-your-lives
"So, where was all this info when silver was $6?"
It was out there but only the "crazies," beyond the "marginals", paid attention. I still remember a bar chart from back then showing about 25 yrs of declining stockpiles, with the tops of the graph bars headed in a linear decline to the X axis. Ask Ted Butler where he was when silver was $6--better yet get on Google and find out.
Ted Butler archive: http://www.butlerresearch.com/archive-free.asp
Nice video.
http://www.bis.org/statistics/otcder/dt21c22a.pdf
who cares whether COMEX has any silver? They are merely an exchange. The shorts are those who have to cough up the metal. But, again, futures exchanges are NOT, repeat NOT intended to be clearinghouses for world supply of a commodity!
Real supplies are delivered between producers and consumers by independent contracts.
I would guess this is right. Why wouldn't big dealers cut out the middle man? I read somewhere that forward contracts for silver went into backwardation before the futures on the Comex did. But I have no idea where one can see information about OTC contracts like that. Do you happen to?
The biggest dealers are governments, I'm pretty sure they don't go through the COMEX.
To function as an exchange someone needs to keep the shorted silver, the physical must exist for the system to work. If there is no physical, it does not matter who is at fault. Someone is liable, and that someone should be held accountable.
Exactly. Force Majeuer.
"the physical must exist for the system to work"; false. the "system" under discussion is the Comex which normally functions as a cash settlement market. b.) The Silver is there in the warehouse; I know you will find this very difficult to believe but the little cartoon bears lied to you. Why, I don't know. Perhaps their "creator" is suffering from a severe case of "internet wisdom"; eg. delusional thinking without checking the facts.
Oh you just know the silver is all there? Contrary to what everyone says and is pretty obvious theres NO WAY they possibly do have it? Come on man, what are you going to tell me next, all Ft Knox and FED gold is of course present and accounted for? I bet they dont have a damn ounce there, been sold 10 times over I bet.
It's not contrary to what "everyone says"; this is an illusion. Everyone, who is sane and operating in the real world, and who knows how the real world operates also believes that all the silver is there; as I say the Warehouse totals are published regularly. It's only fifteen internet conspiracy wackos who can't be bothered to check the facts who want to discuss this alternate reality; where the "silver is not there". I know you will find this amazing, but just because you have 53 friends on the internet who agree with your exciting story you're in love with, does not make it true. I'm not going to tell you anything, "next"; that's enough time wasted, now; perhaps it will encourage the less than totally brainwashed to do their home work and check up on the facts.
Whatever, JP Morgue troll. Hell youre probably Bernank or one of his butt buddies trolling ZH.
That is Jeffery Christian...egotistical and pompous as ever.
JPM was (is) short 3.3 billion ounces, which happens to be the total amount mined during the last two centuries. You think the House of John Pierpont Morgan has all the silver in the world, not to mention all the silver scrap? Strawman arguments subtract points from your score.
The JP Morgue is short 3.3 billion ounces way more than the total mined in the last 100 years but OH YEA its all present and accounted for in the vault as this weenie says Im sure.
I am a committed silver bug, I think that it is very undervalued, and I am a buyer.
However.
I think that we have to utilize FACTS in discussing this, not outright falsehood. You and Sheepdog-One contend that the 3.3 billion ounces of silver that JPM is short represent 1 or 2 centuries of production. Now, that is a lot of silver to be short, but not even within an order of magnitude of the truth. The FACT is that world silver production has been roughly 750-800 million oz./year for at least a decade. Do the math, JPM is short about 4 - count'em, FOUR - years of production.
Senseless exaggeration isn't called for or needed here-the real facts make the case just fine.
so it is only four years to cover, more or less? Short squeeze candidate, unless, well ...
- Ned
I don't know about the whole short squeeze thing. Let's remember that JPM is one of the most important members of the Fed and a market maker in silver, a key industrial metal. I would bet that they could easily get the rules changed at the COMEX (remember the Hunt Bros.?). So squeezing them a bit may not do much good right this moment.
There are other reasons for silver to go up. One is the large amount of silver that has been loaned out - I.e. Fractional reserve lending, in effect. That is an unknowable amount, but if it is anything like gold it is on the order of tens to one, maybe more. I could forsee a scramble by industrial users similar to what happened in paladium that would cause a ripple effect of one certificate holder demanding physical from the next guy up the chain to satisfy his own claim, but it might not occur for years. Anyhow, that and the squeeze on JPM can be manipulated away or postponed by TPTB.
But not forever. The most important fundamental is that silver is a key industrial metal. With more uses found each year. Yet the price is so low that it hasn't paid to invest in the deeper mines which contain more silver, or to process low grade ore closer to the surface. As a result, there is an annual shortfall of 100 million or more ounces. With only 1.0 to 1.5 billion ounces of investable silver left above ground, and with governments worldwide competing to depreciate their currencies before everyone else, the day of reckoning is approaching. Silver MUST go up in price - a lot - to close the annual production gap. Silver's industrial uses are too important, so the forces of the free market WILL triumph in the end. That is why I have been and will remain a buyer.
Thanks, and you as, well, a Texan, would appreciate how the four years "days to cover" misunderestimates this situation. Love Tessicans ;-)
- Ned
The "4 years to cover" thing is HUGE, literally unprecendented. In most commodities, it is considered an abnormally large and manipulative position to be short (or long, for that matter) 1/4 of one year's production. This is 16 times as large, in a commodity that has less available for use (and short covering) as time passes...and JPM is probably not the only large institution that is short silver, either.
This is basic supply and demand. With the price too low, there is under-investment in the means of production (new mines and new methods to get silver out of low-yield existing mines). At the same time, a price that is too low encourages demand and creates a disincentive for recycling. So what is "too low?" That's a bit tough to attach a specific number to (and I certainly cannot do so), but it seems to me that as long as the world stockpile keeps shrinking (as it has for 2 generations), then the speculation about the thing being underpriced is an indisputable FACT. Frankly, until world stockpiles are built up to the point where liquidity for those that wish to take delivery is no problem whatsoever, the price is "too low." What is the mythical "just right" price? Again, I don't know, and besides that is a moving target. In today's fiat dollars, I'd bet that it is somewhat north of $50. The chicanery with overlending and JPM's over-concentration in short contracts will only make that figure higher, as these financial manipulations only add to the imbalance (and, IMHO, have had a lot to do with causing it). Oh, and the longer that this manipulation continues (and for certain there MUST BE manipulation, otherwise the world stockpile would have long ago stabilized with a significantly higher price than we have seen and are seeing up to the present day), the stronger will be the move upwards in price. It can be no other way - this is like a coiled spring that keeps being compressed further every minute or day - at some point it will overcome the downward pressure and spring upwards, and initially it will go well beyond its natural equilibrium price. The more the compression, the more the upward movement.
Of course, there is a complicating factor (well, there are many, but this is one): most silver doesn't come from silver mines. It is a by-product of copper, lead and zinc mining (mostly). If the world economy sucks and commodities drop in price, then those mines slow down or close up (at least for a while), resulting in less silver supply (obviously bullish for AG). If the economy does well and commodities prices go up, then so does silver supply. That is generally bearish for any commodity, but in the case of silver it isn't strictly so - because there are more and more uses for silver as time progresses, and those new uses tend to grow more rapidly than silver supply even in an environment where silver supplies are larger than normal. It all comes back to the fact that the price has been held down, for a variety of reasons, for so long, and there simply isn't a balance between supply and demand, nor is there a sufficiently large stockpile to weather periods of low supply and/or high demand. All of the slack is gone, and the ONLY thing that is keeping silver's price from reaching some kind of equilibrium is, in fact, manipulation. I can say that JPM is part of this, but it surely isn't the only player. I'm not a conspiracy buff, but 2 generations of constant draw-downs in the supply of a key monetary metal (up until the mid-1960s) and a key industrial metal is literally unprecedented. There simply is no other explanation (though I'd be open to any reasonable and fact-based explanation of why I might be wrong).
You are right, I forgot to add a zero. 40 billion Oz, so JPM is short 1/12th the amount of total silver mined in the last few centuries.
http://www.silverinsights.com/_pages/_statistics/statistics_1.html
hey IQ 14.5...if the silver is there..why wont JPM allow an independant audit. of SLV ???.same for gold at Fort Knox..it is becauase of morons like you that allows these scumbag bankers run their game....New Years Resolution for you..try to come back as IQ 45...the real number...honesty is good...
I think confusion comes into play by the admission that ETF's are selling shares at 100 to 1. If 99 hsares don't have the physical silver to back them, then the indicator is that it doesn't exist to start with.
Yes everyone, the COMEX has all the silver they say they do, because nobody lies to make monie. Move along!
Exactly...theres 1 long and 1 short, just like in everything else on Wall St! All totally honest with zero fraud or anything like that...thats all just 'internet rumors' from 'kooks'...move along nothing to see here.
so that means a diamond's value is actually what De Beers told me its was and they don't hide anything from me at all?? well thats good cause I thought my fractional reserve reality was showing again...
I was willing to give IQ 1.45 the benefit of the doubt until now, but he has just stepped out from under the troll bridge. Although, it also marks him as someone who hates his fellow man, and thinks that people are ignorant and easily lied to/controlled.
JP Morgan, the man, was financed by the Rothschilds. If that doesn't alarm you, dark days are ahead for humanity.
It means the KINGS of fractional reserve lending, the Rothschilds, had their hand in the creation of the Federal Reserve.
Give me the address of your opium den I need a little down time.
I do not understand your point.
What do those independent contracts use as a pricing reference?
Are you saying that a real silver consumer is buying product straight from the mine at $6.00 oz, or some other price than that reflected by the COMEX?
That is complete bullshit! It is the absolute responsiblity of the COMEX to provide for delivery. Future contract are contracts with the COMEX not with whoever took the other side of the trade.
It's a completely wacky story, for sure; it's global warming for the PM people. Once again, people; there's one long for every short; the exchange is intended to run as a cash settlement market; the warehouse holdings of Bullion are published; it's not possible to manipulate, say the thirty day average, price of silver by any machination involving the Comex whatsoever. The original investigation concerned short term hustles, over-night, over the week-end, for the trading benefits of the participants; but owing to sloppy journalism and no clear thinking, the word "manipulation" became global in connotation. It's another case of the 2000 invisible demolition packages in the WTC; it didn't happen; it's what I call "Internet wisdom"; in other words; mindless bullshit.
You get junked for being stupid AND an asshole.
The guys either a JP Morgue troll or the biggest gulliable idiot ever. Trying to say there are no PM shenanigans going on at all? LOL, its all nothing but how much fake PM's they can sell, just like the mortgage fiasco with shit invented by banks people still cant even wrap their minds around how corrupt it all was.
The correct term is "ignoranus".
Right, just like the mortgage market...only 1 buyer and only 1 seller...there were no bundling of mortgages and selling then 100x or anything like that, no exotic derivatives, its all just the same standard fair game where the banksters are playing no tricks at all.
IQ145 needs that dropped down to a room temperature number, winter room temp Id say 70 is his proper range judging from the drivel Im reading from this clown or troll or whatever he is.
According to him, you should assume total honesty from all govt/bankster numbers, reports, and data. No thanks brainiac, you can keep on believing the liars, I got over that a couple decades ago.
we forget on ZH that most are still propped up on the Gov Hopium, and so the matrix is all they know.
with failures to deliver, HFT, naked shorting, regulatory capture, this ponzi rolls on for the time being and the average dupe on the street can never comprehend that their world is just a mirage
please ignore the trolls, as it wastes bandwidth and my time reading these comments
thank you and Merry Christmas
You've apparently misplaced a decimal in your handle...
junked you for being ignorant or a liar. only you know for sure which you are.
911 was a controlled demolition. No way around facts and common sense.
At what point do you most need a controlled demolition: after the building is already falling apart uncontrollably? Or before?
The 100+ story building fell into its footprint at freefall speed while turning the cement and metal into dust. "Falling apart uncontrollably" is an exaggeration.
Building falling apart uncontrollably....just leave the 2 towers aside and explain building 7 collapse from the top down at freefall speed due to...nothing but a few office fires?
You both missed my point. If you are going to have a controlled demolition, you need to set it off before the building starts to fall on its own. Once a building starts to fall on its own, you can no longer set off a controlled demolition.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theories, but from the moment I saw it happen on television, I assumed they were all controlled demolitions. What insurance company would have ever insured such tall buildings without requiring a way to bring them down into their own footprint - so as to limit potential claims against the insurance company(s).
Hey shit for brains, ever heard of a NAKED SHORT?
Backwardation is an internet illusion?
@IQ 145,
My Darling Child,
I hear your statements and reasoning, but I must warn you as you go
into the large world, people lie. Everyone has lied at least once in their
lives; even you, even me. Sir W. Scott opined, "Oh what a tangle web we
weave, When first we practice to deceive." It is true, one little slip up
down the slope you slide.
Tragically, I witnessed an embezzlement from our unit about a decade ago.
She didn't mean to, just a little here, a little there, all to be replaced later.
Of course, "later" never happened and we and the company were
devastated. We recovered.
Please never assume that people charged with the keeping of other
people's possessions would never lie or be tempted beyond the
endurance of the flesh.
Sincerely,
Katharotes
Sun Tzu on the Art of War
20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
It only works when one has the upper hand. Who has the upper hand here? Millions of silver holders, or a faux exchange and its lying executives?
Since No one else will say it - Silver Bitchez!!!
Merry Christmas for all Z-Hedgers readers
and happy "anti-matter" explosion year for markets and banksters
It gets ALOT worse than this
We all may be in for interesting times ahead....
Blast from the past
Bank for International Settlements
CH-4002 BASEL, SWITZERLAND
http://www.bis.org/about/notesholde.pdf
15 September 2000No single drop believes it's responsible for the flood.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/irresponsibilitydemotivation...
would not everyone who requests physical silver delivery and gets cash instead have at least a fiduciary need to locate and buy an equivalent amount thus forcing silver higher than it would have otherwise been?
Not necessarily. Many of the buyers might be content with receiving a premium to roll the contracts forward. Others might take the cash settlement and call it a good day as the purchase was only intended as a speculative move. The ones that actually need delivery might only purchase in the open market what they needed for production and roll the rest as a new future contract.
The ultimate would be an Another oil/gold scheme. BoS accepting the premiums as profit an using it to subsidize oil purchases.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBRaLHD8csQ
Thanks Fuu! ....finally something i can believe in...it's a Zombie World!
Hopium Holidays and Merry Rare Metals throughout the New Year!
Cheers, ZEROHEDGERS!
As my user name implies, I am a confessed silver bug. However, I doubt the claims made by these videos. I do believe there is large manipuation in the PM markets but I suspect the shot callers will simply change the rules if the banks could not cover their positions. As for me, I will continue to invest in physical silver and pray the doomsday scenario never comes to pass. I will then leave my hoarde to my children. I fear our idiotic leaders will continue to spend this country into oblivion, it is just a matter of how long it will take. So will I need to use my silver hoard in my lifetime or will my children need it in their adult years? That is the million dollar question.
I do not believe the hype, do you? So what is the problem? Do you need an authority figure to hold your hand?
And that is where this situation is different than the Hunt brothers scenario. The COMEX can change the rules all they want, wont make the physical magically appear. That is the crux of the game and the video. Physical delivery is required by at least a percentage of the buyers. Wether they are industrial buyers or bullion mints, they need physical delivered and paper settlement will not work. You can t build solar panels with silver contracts. And silver promissory notes don't coin well.
Because the price is suppressed, the natural result is shortage. Think of it as a black Friday fire sale. If the commodity is been offered at a much lower price than should naturally exist (supply vs. demand), it will become scarce. At that point the price will rise regardless of the paper price.
Lets say the .gov determined after a hurricane that gasoline must be sold at no more than $3 a gallon. Eventually gas stations will run out of gas. If you must have gas in order to run your generator or drive your car, wouldn't you pay your neighbor whatever he asks for the gas he has stored in his shed?
I have heard gasoline will only store for so long. A year, and "don't put it in a engine you care about".
Fun fact: thermal paste that goes on your CPU has silver in it. Not sure the cost of computers will be skyrocketing, but industrial demand for silver will always exist (a lot longer than JPM's price manipulation, that is for sure)
You can extend it for a little while using stabil. Analogy remains. Those of us who are accumulating silver are well aware of the industrial needs for silver. From electronics to medical to solar, silver is critical. You cant build solar panels with future contracts. You need actual silver.
I have some silver and a solar panel. Stabil will keep gasoline from
going bad for awhile but it is blended with butane to help cars
start easier. This will eventually evaporate out so don't store gas for
long.
I also hope the doomsday never comes. It is hard to comprehend the chaos that will in-sue. I have my physical and now am spending my time and money preparing for the chaos. I have decided to install a home generator, geothermal, laying out gardens. Planning for leaving the country if it came to it. Making big money on silver is great but it will come with huge social costs!
these xtranormal vids are definitely part of my top 10 for 2010
here is the problem with buying Gold/Silver hard assets; 1933? Anyone remember the Government of the U.S. of Screw you confiscated all gold. They will do the same again. The only thing that is really safe right now is farm land friends. Because when it comes down to it, food and water are required to survive. All else is secondary. If Silver and Gold shoot to the moon, the confiscation price will be much much lower. This is how yo will lose your ass.
Completely disagree. 1933 had a gold standard at least. It would make NO sence to do this in the USA today, unless EVERY country in the WORLD mandates PM confiscation at the same time. Not sure what the likelyhood of that happening are as the sheeple with take arms and revolt for sure world wide.
Good point. How would the government maintain any shred of credibility after monetary policy dictated FIAT as supreme chancellor? A confiscation rumor would start a wildfire that would jump all lines.
Who says the gubment has a shred of credibility now?
Preach!
Dear Leader doth not approve!
what disturbs me is how after Katrina they just took the guns...violated the law, flattened that old lady who just showed them she had it.... No one did squat.
Have you seen the riot police in those Canadian videos?...expect to die you go against that sort of force and those hippies were unarmed and singing Oh Canada...
When they kick out your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun...
The US Government can not even mitigate natural disasters (think Katrina) how the hell will they confiscate gold? Go door to door with a metal detector? If the US Government started the process, rumors that it was not gold but gun confiscation would have FEMA foot soldiers met by armed Amercians.
Use your fear tactics on a different topic. Reality is what you make it, and if you want to give up your personal property to a fascist government, be my guest. I will not.
I wont turn it in either, but I bet a lot of people will, when threatened with indefinite detention if youre found with it.
Usually people who own PM are smarter than to think the US government has the means to find who is holding and who isn't.
If it came to that, I'd just double ziplock it all and bury it under a boulder till later. Try to prove I have it, they can go ahead.
Good luck idiot. This ain't the 30's no more.
Satelite GPR can locate a silver dime buried a mile deep.
Game over. Please insert coin to continue.
Welcome to reality.
Be nice fat hairy avatar, it's Christmas, for Christ's sake.
Have you heard of the upcoming solar maximum that will fry those satellites to the quick?
Look into it.
that, my friend is the new reality.
I suggest you wake up to it and don't extrapolate this now to tomorrow.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/10/14/the-practice-of-detachment/
+1, ORI.
ORI, I do not celebrate Coca Cola sponsored festivities.
The data they have been collecting up until the CME happens will be enough for them to find most of the hoard.
And for those fool enough to rely on their gps to locate their stash at sea, well, they can kiss it goodbye, eh?
I can tell you how most silver will be "confiscated".
What they have planned does not even involve LE knocking on your door (only in a few isolated cases).
Your friends, neighbors and family will rat you out. Silver and gold bugs will be vilified by the Climategate Industrial Complex.
Ahmee, the Christmas reference was merely to point out needless Douche-sounds. No need. In my opinion anyways.
And to somehow imagine that "they" have the whole post CME scenario figured, that si intriguing indeed. Do you have links etc. you can share from where-in yoru knowledge comes?
Always happy to get deeper in the rabbit hole.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
The Climategate Industrial Complex gets free PMs everytime Joe Sixpack tosses his cellphone into a recycling bin thinking he's saving the rainforest and not JPM's ass.
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Cell_phone_recycling
Take note that prices considered in that article date back from 2005 by using average prices from 2002-2004.
Contrary to popular ZH popular belief, gold is also used in industrial applications, most notably in MIL/IT/Telecomm and thus, ENERGY.
ORI, they call CME activity "global warming". They think they have it all figured out.
They are in for a rude awakening.
LOL satelites will find a bag of silver under a boulder, yea ok.
Sheepdog-One, I could try to explain it to you, but it would be like trying to explain Quantum Mechanics to a dung beetle.
Google up GPR.
Just finished an experiment with GPR, on a vehicle, and we got signatures to 12 feet deep, with an antenna in contact with the ground. You need to learn to separate science fiction from science fact...
No, it is you who needs to separate stuff that's made available to Joe Sixpack at Radio Shack, and stuff that's used by the MIL that costs millions of bucks.
Your toy GPR is nothing compared to what's orbiting the earth.
"Satelite GPR can locate a silver dime buried a mile deep."
Oh, right.
No confiscation necessary; taxes and inflation are the instruments.
Legislation, taxation, and control are really effective tools of the
"War on Drugs" which has almost eliminated the use of
outlawed substances in the USofA. So shall it be with PMs.
(sarc/off)
Last night I spokewith my brother on the phone and he was telling me about a bust just down the street from his residence. Apparently it was a clothing store only open for a couple hours a few days a week. What they found were around 300 plants in a hydroponic setup in that back of the business. They are all going to jail because they were not 'licensed' to operate that type of business. Just so happens they were only a few doors away from a 'legal' pot distributor. Los Angeles wants its taxes or they jail you for the federal bucks...
Suggested reading for @zeroman
"The US had gold confiscation in the 1930's in the Great Depression. We had gold and silver coin currency in circulation, ie a gold dollar. The US instituted mandatory conversion of gold dollars into fiat dollars, ie they wanted all the gold coin USD currency back in the hands of the US government. Ultimately, they only got a relatively small fraction of it back. The rest was hoarded here and abroad...." MORE: http://www.prudentsquirrel.com/public_articles/cogcae.php
Right, and if land taxes are raised to the point you cant pay them? Or better yet, why don't you think the government won't just take it, either with immenent domain or via their executive order allowing them to seize pretty much everything. We are already under a declared 'state of emergency' since sept 11.
I'm not arguing that the govt. would try to seize it, but I think you are stopping a couple of step too short. One of the reasons gold and to a less extent silver are used is how dense the value is that is stored. Allowing someone to bury in small box or can a rather large amount of savings, giving you the ability to hide and protect your wealth.
"hide and protect your wealth"
Don't forget 'ability to move' your wealth, the beauty of PM's - and somewhat the downside of Silver which I love more than gold - too bulky at this stage in the game for me - what is several hundred pounds in silver, I could have a couple of pockets of gold and be much more mobile. But I'll just put it close to the keel to help stabilize in rough waters. A consideration for those planning evacuation on land or air if/when TSHTF.
Here's one not available on American cable TV but in most Asian cable TV - www.RT.com - good alt views and seems Max Keiser's videos show up earlier at this site also.
To all fellow ZHer's, I wish you all peace in your lives and a Merry Christmas - your comments and articles have added to my education immensely. Forever learning, The Navigator.
"The only thing that is really safe right now is farm land friends"
Tell that to the pre-Revolution Russian landowners or the Rhodesian farmers.
IQ 45 definately has a stake in the manipulation. Too many ad hominums.....sad really...
Exactly! Like property rights are beyond reproach and have never been violated. Then there is the whole mobility/portability thing...
The only thing that is really safe right now is farm land friends. Because when it comes down to it, food and water are required to survive. All else is secondary. If Silver and Gold shoot to the moon, the confiscation price will be much much lower. This is how yo will lose your ass.
like farmland was safe from confiscation in zimbabwe?
when food runs short/out, you ll need a small army to defend your farm.
get real and think before u type
Regards
Ozzy
there is no safety, plan accordingly
I dont know how people assume society can collapse, but their farmland will be ok. Better be prepared to defend it all armed day and nite during an entire growing season.
And who says property is off limits to the govt anyway? Already they step in whenever they feel like it and seize people land based upon whatever they feel like saying is the reason. You got a kangaroo rat on your land it was sighted last Thursday...your land is seized, do something about it.
The government can confiscate any damn thing it pleases -- you've never heard of land being confiscated? If the govt. determines that it's in the "national interest" to nationalize critical farmland, it's pretty hard to hide land. They can't confiscate your metals if they don't know you have them -- buy with cash and hide it safely, not in a bank deposit box - or move it out of the country. If you are buying metal online with a credit card, there is a paper trail. My coin shop takes my money, they don't have my name or address.
BTW, in the 1930s after the metals confiscation, the US government repriced the gold from $20 to $35, higher not lower. So if you had kept your gold then, you did OK. Even if it's illegal, there will always be a black market for PMs, especially gold, and almost everyone would still take PMs in trade.
Every customer's face is on the coinshop's security cam, they turn those tapes to the authorities, your face is matched to any ID...
KNOCK KNOCK....SIR, PUT DOWN THE CHALUPA.
What gold? What Silver?
Gold/silver confiscation is unlikely from the USGovt unless they formally back the dollar with PM's first - or launch a new currency.
If they tried it tomorrow -the dollar would realize its true value immediately (zero) and the whole idea would be counter productive.
I also agree, anyone who can afford both PMs and agri land should get both.
The hurricane may not eventuate - but every sign is showing a srowm warning - only a total fool would not take some effort to prepare.
Not everybody turned in their gold in 1933. This time around those
of us who hold PM's are aware of that scheme. I won't turn mine in.
As I've stated before, the world has an underground economy.
Americans need to learn how to function in it.
Double you tee eff?
Backwardation, bitchez.
fellow ZHedger's -
help me out with this...i have a associate that i succesfully persuaded into liquidating his entire equity positions and moving into both Gold & Silver...yet he persists with this type of thinking nonetheless
"
Try to buy something with a piece of silver day to day reality man> fiat rules on a day to day basis that is why you still have to watch
> the daily screen, and that's what you and I do on a daily basis So, why be
> stupid---might as well buy at 28 instead of 31 because for now you will be
> dealing in the fiat currency you like to dis so much whats in your
> wallet? It aint no capital one card
please offer commentary on this thinking as to demostrate how ass backward it is...or is there something wrong with me...my response -
if u only understood how stupid that sounds...u typed a lot of words andsaid absolutely nothing...look mother fucker...lets c how much Silver u
will b able to buy going forward for $28 per oz... all that other shit u
typed is so matter of fact and simple minded i wont even respond to it
other than to say u just gave the classic argument of the bankers relative
to discouraging metal accumulation...truly fucking weird considering ur
investment position... ill just say this, since "u cant eat Silver or Gold" and u cant buy
anything with it cause fiat rules (stupid) then why dont u sell it???
i open up the floor.....
Tell him any time he wants to sell there are buyers and a couple years from now when those buyers have kept their purchasing power. Would he be able to say the same?
have you suggested a fiat salad, lightly tossed with vinegar?
Harvey & Turd cover this topic well
http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/
Can someone explain "last week's increase in mortgage interest rates was a smoke signal"?
How does that tie into Silver?
PM futures sensitive to interest rates. Rates up; PMs down.
You are totally wrong.
Find out what happened to gold when Volker began to raise rates and get back to us.
Was not making some sweeping statement reaching back to the 1970s, so calm down.
More recently, the effect of rates on PMs is demonstrable. Gold tumbled last October on news of a Chinese rate hike. And gold was also down (from $1,395 to $1,375) when 30-year mortgage rates spiked from 12/15-16 (last week). There are many week hands in PMs right now.
(d)
physical delivery for couple of tankers of crude oil in wall street would do some good for the speculators...what happened in gulf was not a leak it was a physical delivery in its most cruel way.
Who will be first to blink and use the newly acquired POMO funds to save the day? LOL
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=63
Ive been saying since the start of POMO most of it is going to mash down PM's.
Temporally mashing of PM.
Watch video and have a chuckle. Long term visions are worth a bundle holding physical gold/or silver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcEEaniU1OU
So, JPM is substituting base metals for precious metals?
They would say, 'Hail Mary' but I do not think they worship her.
Fuck PM's and commodities. Equities are maxed out and going sideways.
The only thing left to speculate on is going to be real estate.
All Aboard! The train is leaving the station bitchez!
Then go buy one of the ten million homes on shadow inventory.
Do you ever think about what you write?
How the fuck can I buy shadow inventory? LoL?
What fucking christmas miracle can I use to get into it?
My point is that with 10 million homes on shadow inventory I do not think real estate is a wise investment. There is also the fact that unemployment will stay high forever as the manufacturing base was moved via NAFTA, and those who buy housees now will have no one to sell them to because American purchasing power has been destroyed.
This guy has obviously escaped from some mental institution.
When did mainland China become part of North America?
I can tell you when North America became part of China.
Really when? China imports food, they can't even feed themselves.
We own China son. Wanna rephrase your statement now?
They can't feed themselves?
How stupid of them, they should just start rolling the food stamp ponzi!
Do you ever read the ingredients and where your food comes from?
Hint: coffee beans are not grown in Kansas.
We can live w/o coffee beans....they aren't food anyway. Yes, we can feed ourselves here in the USA.
You really are a lying POS.
'Real estate speculation' LMFBO!!
Just like a sheep, you won't get it until there is a show on Lifetime telling you to do so....
Go buy up some inventory then brainiac! Plenty of it around certainly. No ones stopping you!
(d)
coming to a neighborhood near you... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVQRMrlQ95U
http://www.icxt.com/products/icx-surveillance/integrated-platforms/skywa...
Do something about it! Instead you pray to jesus....
You are a nice pacifist. Did the vet throw your testicles to his border collie to chew on after he turned you into a gelding?
You do something about it then, bigmouth!
i pray to jesus i meet you on the street.
Don't let an idiot upset your balance.
I find those mobile surveilance towers look somewhat like
Star Wars Walkers.
Is it possible that movies are being used to precondition the populace
to various visual images so they are less capable of reacting
with appropriate emotional content in the real world?
Perhaps Tavistock and the Rand institute have thoroughly
modeled such things in 'scenario space' and know the outcome?
Sort of how they produce those 'web bot' reports using 'linguistic future predictives'
You know, it's damn easy to predict the future when you're the one
causing it.
You wouldnt want to, trust me.
The-Charade-of-World-Depression
Free-Market Analysis: The problem of the EU seems simple, as indicated by this article excerpt above. The Southern PIGS are bankrupt but cannot devalue because of the euro contract. The wealthy North will therefore have to bail out the PIGS and in doing so, provide substantive oversight. Germany ends up being the guarantor of last resort and also the state providing the watchdogs, basically, since it is German money that will save the EU. It is a German EU after all, and the Germans will have to stop dithering ...
This is one (fairly simplistic, we would argue) way of evaluating the situation that is currently evolving in the EU. But here at the Bell we have also argued that the Anglo-American axis is really behind the EU – and perhaps the average German won't have much say in the matter. The Anglosphere seeks world government and the EU is a basic building block.
The point we want to advance in this article is that there is perhaps a deeper subterfuge going on. Yes, we've suggested this before, but as the EU unwinds, as America quakes from unemployment and China shudders from inflation, we continue to explore the possibility. And so we ask, once more ... Is the world being manipulated into an ever-more-massive depression? And how would that work exactly?
In order to explain it, we need to establish (for purposes of argument anyway) that there is an Anglo-American power elite composed of certain fabulously wealthy families that seek one-world government. There has been speculation, for instance, that these families have a hand in the recent saga of Foundation X which sounds more like the plot of a bad paperback novel than anything real. Lord James of Blackheath mentioned Foundation X at the House of Lords in early November.
It was his contention that 'Foundation X' had the resources to "bail out" the UK and that Foundation X's gold reserve was larger than what is considered to be the world's total mined reserves. Lord James of Blackheath was roundly derided as a "nutter." We don't find him so. We have asked if Foundation X was merely a cover for the financial interests of the Anglo-American power elite. It still seems a pertinent question. This kind of money is massive indeed, assuming Lord James didn't drop off his meds for a day. It reinforces the idea that what we are watching around the world is a charade.
We have previously argued that there is a level of behind-the-scenes collusion between ALL the powers-that-be. All of them, East and West, may be cooperating to bring down the current system with an eye toward instituting something in its place that will be mutually agreed upon. (The IMF's bancor comes to mind.)
For more on this, read: Global Depression Just a Dodge?.
Follow the logic, please. If indeed a family or group of families has now taken possession of more gold tonnage than people knew existed, then isn't the world's financial crisis perhaps less serious than it seems? A few tons of gold in the proper places would go a long ways to alleviate the debt problems of Portugal, Greece and Ireland.
Much has been made of the difficulties that the big banks face. But we believe the banking system worldwide, is owned outright by this clique of banking families. What do they care, really, if their banks are insolvent? How much difference does it make?
Are we witnessing a planned collapse? If so, the art of such an event will lie in its management. The collapse must be calibrated so that the people are made miserable without being brought to the point of total revolt. The progress that the elite has made in building one world government must not be compromised by the ongoing collapse, but must be supported by it.
This would make sense even within the context of the nuttiness of the Foundation X episode. The Anglo-American elite may be nervous about British unrest (and unrest in the EU generally). It may feel it has pushed too far, too fast. If one traduces what one has created (the current Western system of finance) then what, ultimately does one have left but a small group with gold and billions without? Not a good survival equation.
It sounds bizarre doesn't it, dear reader? The idea that a small group of elite families with a power-base in London's City has managed to accumulate all the wealth in the world and – like the hydra-headed leader of million-man orchestra – played the tune to which the world has danced for at least 100 years.
And yet ... gaze at the 20th century without flinching (if that is possible) and take calm stock of history as it is commonly recited. Central banking – price fixing of the price and amount of money – spread throughout the world despite the ruin it inevitably causes. Two world wars were fought, neither one with very clear antecedents. One great depression engulfed the world, again without a very clear causation. Somehow the world drifted away from honest money – gold and silver – which people had depended upon for millennia. New ‘isms" sprang up, seemingly out of nowhere – Communism, Nazism, Socialism – and somehow, somewhere, found fertile soil and were adopted by governments.
Psychology – the science built on analyzing the ghosts of mentality – became popular. Modern art flourished despite the great distaste of the masses. Serial wars were continually pursued; and world government was suggested as an antidote. In fact, a global financial infrastructure sprang up shortly after World War II, one that included the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and a much-empowered Bank of International Settlements. Even today, couriers for the BIS apparently operate with absolute immunity. Not a single nation or extra-national group as we understand it is empowered to search a BIS courier or inquire about the contents on his or her person.
Does all of the above have a common denominator? Yes, it does. The history of the 20th century in almost every instance is one that seeks to reduce the self-reliance of the common man, to shatter families and to promote dependence on the state. It cannot be a coincidence in our view when everything from art to science, to literature, to history ... education, economics, finance, etc. all promote spiritual nihilism and ever-expanding statist enterprises. There are even questions as to whether the "state" that people relate to in America is actually a corporation that sees inhabitants as assets rather than sovereign citizens.
Follow the money. Alternative history revealed on the ‘Net shows us that much of the funding for the 20th century "isms" came from Western financiers; much of the funding for the Red Russians came from Wall Street; Red China in turn received funding from the USSR. The Rockefellers, meanwhile, donated the land for the UN; David Rockefeller was intimately involved in the creation of the IMF, World Bank and even the BIS before the war. The royal families of Europe and Britain are mostly interrelated and own vast amounts of property and industry. Many nation-states are not nearly so independent as they seem. Israel is an almost personal project of the Rothschilds who engineered its creation and then physically provided the Knesset and the Supreme Court building with its all its strange Illuminati symbolism; Hitler's rise and Germany's rebuilding were funded by Western banking interests.
On and on, when one follows the money trail (and the Internet makes it easy) it leads back only to a few individuals and groups. And this is as it should be; through some sort of mathematical formula, resources are always distributed unequally, with one group of individuals ending up with the majority of assets and everybody else making due with the leftovers. But in the case of the power elite, controlling the lion's share of assets has not been enough.
In order to ensure their power continues and to gather even more assets if possible, the elites have pursued a horrible program of mercantilism. By using the color of government to justify and hide their activities, the powers-that-be have created intelligence operations, central banking economies and even whole armies that nominally belong to the state but in actuality are controlled by a shadowy handful of individuals and families standing behind Western governments.
This program came into full-effect in the 20th century when central banks became ubiquitous and the money generated enabled the power elite to virtually buy control of the Western world. Accordingly, many of the West's most significant sociopolitical events were compromised and perhaps pre-planned. Everything from the counter-cultural revolution of the 1960s to (possibly) the landings of men on the moon to the various Marxist-Leninist tides that swept the world in the 20th century were offered within the context of a larger script goading the globe toward a unitarian governance.
The world's levers of power are seemingly controlled only by a few, and they are not those that are "democratically elected." Given that there is plenty of evidence that this singular elite orchestrates world wars and even globally-convulsing socio-political movements, is it so much of a stretch to speculate that the current, deepening economic depression is in a sense a managed one? The elite well understands the outcome of central banking economies. What is happening in Europe, what has happened in America and what will happen in China are both evident and obvious. A continued degradation of the world economy can likely be forecast.
The only item that the elite in our view did not entirely anticipate was the Internet itself. The truth-telling of the Internet has literally blown-up the secrecy that veiled the elite conspiracy to rule the world. It has also illustrated the elite's lack of intellectual resources. When exposed, those behind the conspiracy have ignored the exposure and attempted to force through their plans with brute legislative, civil and military force – as if the popular approval they have stage-managed through their fear-based promotions no longer mattered.
It is astonishing to us that people (even readers and commentators at the Bell) do not see fully the disaster that has overtaken the power elite. For 100 years the elite operated behind-the-scenes, carefully orchestrating dominant social themes to promote ever-more-unified global governance. But now these plans are exposed along with many of those who promote them. For this reason we continue to point out these strategies may not be brought to fruition (no matter what prophesy vaguely predicts).
Investors, especially, should watch carefully. In the 20th century, those who understood the promotions being implemented were likely wise to help fund them. But in the 21st century, as we have pointed out, at least some of the high-profile themes that the elite had hoped to implement seamlessly have unraveled. The Chicago Climate Exchange just went out of business and we have the idea that much of the so-called Green economy may soon follow, (wind and solar power companies, electric car companies, etc.) just as it did in the 1970s.
Conclusion: To orchestrate a global depression leading to a New World Order in these circumstances strikes us as foolhardy. Ordinarily such ruin would depress the world's masses and cause the requisite chaos. But too many understand too much of what is going on these days. When one wishes to cause maximum confusion, is it wise to do so with a target strapped to one's back?
http://www.thedailybell.com/1624/The-Charade-of-World-Depression.html
Ok, but why? Peak oil production.