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JPM, HSBC Sued For Silver Market Manipulation, Reaping Billions In Illegal Profits
Yesterday's announcement by CFTC commissioner Bart Chilton that he was fully aware of fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control silver prices may have been the straw that broke the gold and silver price manipulating camel's back on precious metal manipulation. Today, Brian Beatty and Peter Laskaris (Southern District Court of New York, cases 10-08146, and 10-01857) sued the two firms at the very top of the precious metal manipulation pyramid: JPMorgan and HSBC. The lawsuit, which seeks class action status, alleges that "between in or about March 2008 and continuing through the present, Defendants have combined, conspired and agreed to restrain trade in, fix, and manipulate prices of silver futures and options contracts traded in this District on the COMEX division of the NYMEX. Defendants thereby have violated Section 1 of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C ¶1. Also during the Class Period, individual Defendants have intentionally acted to manipulate prices of COMEX silver futures and options contracts. Such conduct violates Section 9(a) of the Commodity Exchange Act, 7 U.S.C. ¶13b." And so, the tidal wave of lawsuits by all those who may have ever lost money trading precious metals against JPM et al begins.
The lawsuit alleges that the means by which JPM and HSBC manipulated the market is as follows:
- Defendants have effected their foregoing restraint of trade and manipulation through diverse means. These means themselves include lawful and unlawful acts.
- Defendants have held large positions in silver futures and silver options.
- Defendant have held a concentrated and substantial amount of the open interest in silver futures contracts
- Defendants have made large trades at key times.
- Defendants or others have made large "spoof" orders which appeared on the trading screens; "spoofing" is the submission of a large order which is not executed but influences prices and is then withdrawn before it reasonably can be executed.
- Defendants have communicated with and/or signalled one another their trades.
In the suit, the plaintiff allege that JPM and HSBC in August 2008 held 85% of the net short position in silver and by the first quarter 2009 held $7.9 billion in precious metal derivatives.
Some amusing observations from the plaintiffs:
Prior to public complains and the government investigation of manipulation of COMEX silver futures prices that began in March 2010, silver prices greatly underperformed gold prices. Since the government investigation began, silver prices have greatly outperformed gold prices.
This "price signature" is precisely consistent with what would be expected of very reputable firms (like the JP Morgan Group Defendants and the HSBC Group Defendants) when their unlawful activities are threatened by government investigations and possible exposure, and compliance intercedes.
Laskaris and Beatty further allege that Defendants reaped hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in profits from the conspiracy.
Damages sought by plaintiffs include damages that may be tripled, and various other remedies.
In the meantime, as this lawsuit seeks class status, we are confident many readers will enjoin the plaintiffs. Especially since, as is suddenly all too well known, the CFTC's bias to perpetually rule in favor of the commission has been exposed for all to see. Will the be the watershed case that finds two of the biggest market manipulators finally guilty?
Oh, and, with one more "conspiracy theory" about to be proven for fact, can the tin foil hat be taken off now?
Full filing:
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I just had a thought, what if SkyNet wasn't military ... but financial.
(My apologies if this is not a new idea.)
SkyNet is multifaceted.
You can fool some of the people...
Every fucking time.....
What's most material here is II/B/46/47/48)a),(b)&(c)/70.
However, without the logs, it seems as conjecture and I feel I could impune it.
If I was plaintiff, my focus would be on 48(a) as it is a significant market event w/out direct & immediate bearing on the metals market [as opposed to OpEx for ex]. Prove it there, and you've proven it. That's the spot where they're most likely to have alot of log entries & "fake"
orders.
I worry about getting a jury that can understand this stuff.
All they really need to understand is the banks cannot be "digitally short" something that they could never deliver in reality if they are wrong on their bet.
Similar to betting your neighbors house against your hand at a card game...they can understand that.
I have difficulty in class explaining the concept of naked shorting. The students think I am full of shit (really, they roll their eyes and wave me off, not possible, people don't do that, they couldn't get away with it). I get them to look up the Morgan Stanley Silver Short case where they had paper, no silver, and were even charging folks a storage fee. Their excuse? Common industry practice.
But I hope you are right. We are in the thick of knowing about this stuff. I don't think we fathom anymore how shocking all this truly is to folks who just work their 9-5 and don't spend much time thinking about the economy until they lose their job, or can't find one (many of my students) in the first place.
You are doing the country a favor, Missy, by bringing it up in a classroom.
Thank you.
Careful though, I'm not the professor here certainly, but every futures short, is a naked. :)
Start a ZeroHedge for kids...
K-12- ZeroHedgeHog dot com
High School and College - ZeroNookie dot com
If common industry practice equates to law of the land, then gullibility is opportunity. Quick, sell them a bridge .
MC,
I share Rocky's sentiments. It all starts with the young.
Satisfaction sometimes comes much later when a former student comes to you and says it was you who planted the seed.
Great example.
But they don't even have to be wrong, do they? All that needs to occur is for the counterparty to demand they perform what they've promised to do.
Yeah. Its like when your bookie says "pay up" and you aint got the cash.
Jury selection consists of ... Do you or have you frequented ZeroHedge? ... in place of the growing irrelevance of ethnicity, education and religion.
(Hint: when seating for selection, look for the trapdoor).
I'm not sure how damages can be proven to a significant extent.
Imagine if all the countries that have been purchasing Gold recently suddenly started their own Gold standard on their currencies,they would be the worlds hardest currencies overnight,no fiat could compete,what would that set in play in the markets ............... ?
Well, I would bet that the other currencies would immediately buy their hard currency and demand delivery, turning it into mush, it has happened in the past...
I would imagine that this suit might cause just a tad correction to SLV, or will they have their bankster friends help them prop it up?
Close. Imagine if oil producing countries, who have been purchasing gold for decades, suddenly started openly offering oil for gold. Let's say 1000 barrels for 1 ounce. Oil would depreciate against gold but not dollars. Gold would go to aprox. $85,000 oz. Oil producing, gold owning country's long term plan becomes clear.
OK, lets imagine ME countries would love to do this, but have been dissuaded by US presence.
Which alliance of countries includes 20% of the world's gold reserves, the world's largest oil producer/exporter, and the necessary military deterence? Ever heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization?
"At the 2007 SCO summit Iranian Vice President Parviz Davudi addressed an initiative that has been garnering greater interest and assuming a heightened sense of urgency when he said, “The Shanghai Cooperation Organization is a good venue for designing a new banking system which is independent from international banking systems.”
The address by Russia’s Putin also included these comments: “We now clearly see the defectiveness of the monopoly in world finance and the policy of economic selfishness. To solve the current problem Russia will to take part in changing the global financial structure so that it will be able to guarantee stability and prosperity in the world and to ensure progress.”
Now how do you go about guaranteeing the stability of a financial system? Not a gold standard. A free gold market.
And so would everything else.
Be a great time to have marked to market gold reserves, eh?
Keynes was correct: The Gold Standard is a barbarous relic.
When there is talk today of "sound money", which is sensible, gold and silver are inevitably arrived at. How many other realistic sound money options are there?
Gold and silver are options because they have a long track record in this arena.
But were they used in the most efficient way? Can we not do better?
We have had technology called the wheel for some time too. But we have tuned it up over the years. New materials, like metals and rubber. Internal combustion engine. Suspension, differential, gears, roading. And we expect to continue to refine this technology, and even to see it completely superceded, don't we?
Why, when talk is of sound money involving gold and silver, do we not expect the same?
What if humanity had dismissed as absurd and unworkable the blasphemous notion of adding an engine and tyres to the sacred wheel?
So why, on the topic of gold and sound money, must we cling to the notion of coins in our pockets as a medium of exchange? Why include silver? Why "back" money with a fixed quantity of metal?
Why, when the Thoughts of A/FOA/FOFOA have laid out the groundwork for an evolutionary leap in this technology, ideas already implemented by the architects of the Euro, and now by the SCO members too?
Simple. It slows the implementation of Freegold to associate these ideas with gold. Red herring. Divide and conquer. The status quo is extremely beneficial to some, and they are happy to delay the inevitable derailment of their gravy train as long as possible.
Freegold uses physical gold as the ultimate inflation protected wealth storage vehicle, in tandem with the super efficient medium of exchange properties supplied by modern digital fiat currencies.
Central Banks already hold the gold reserves. Both the Euro and Russia mark their reserves to market already.
CBs are busy acquiring more presently, whilst trying not to run the price and crash the market, thus ending their acquisitions on the cheap.
China is the world's largest gold producer currently due to their phenomenal rate of extraction. Their reserves are nothing special, and will be mostly exhausted within a decade. Why?
Time is purchased with the inclusion of silver, coins as currency, gold as medium of exchange being promoted into the debate. They're all red herrings.
Many sharp people are part of the ZH community, yet how many have engaged in a rational discussion about Freegold? They cannot, as long as they remain encumbered with the archaic ideas of the past. It is not a question of intelligence, but of incumbent outdated beliefs and assumptions blocking the good view.
This is a part of the reason I say "you don't own your stuff, your stuff owns you", with the stuff being mental.
But you cannot stop the market, en masse, from doing that which it deems necessary for its own survival, and the bulk of market participants don't necessarily need to understand all the ins and outs. Time will supply those.
Free (physical) gold market, MTM reserves.
It's Evolution, Baby
nuinut, is it not nice to see FOFOA getting more respect as time passes?
It is, and yet this is inevitable, is it not?
No one has poked a rational hole in his logic.
The actions of all the players continue to conform with the script laid out in the Thoughts of A/FOA/FOFOA. Note that the script came first.
It is reasonable to look for this to continue, is it not?
I do not take it as a given, but the odds keep improving.
Is there another plausible roadmap to this monetary cataclysm that has proven as accurate?
Thanks! Great stuff as usual. Of course, there will be many who will not read your words since the theme is antithetical to their world view. That being "paper" wealth.
The process of letting go of your mental "stuff" is pretty tough. The last couple of generations have no experience at all outside the paper paradigm; far from being an excuse, though, this should be a flag to the inquiring mind.
Some of these comments above are reposted from this ZH thread: Silver Money For Americans from a couple of days ago.
Aah, the irony. Anti-trust. The last refuse of the scoundrel, looking to restrain trade! So they can go after a company for acts that would otherwise be *legal* except for the fact that the company is big, or is working with another company.
Who needs objective law anyways?!? Let the courts decide based on who we all know is good or bad, and whose "side" are you one and is a case "for" or "against" the guys we all know are "bad"!
Oh for pete's sake.
Who needs rules for sports either?
Your comment is confusing - I'm sure it's my lack of mental horsepower.
You appear to support objective law, but then ridicule the notion that JPM's actions should be evaluated based on objective law.
Are the words "objective law" some sort of magical incantation? Is objective law likely to be obeyed - especially by those most able break it and least likely to be prosecuted - in the absence of enforcement?
Which actions do you feel that JPM has committed and for which they're being prosecuted would be legal were the company not "big"? Placing bets that they couldn't deliver on, were they to go against them? Concentration greater - working with another company - (on the short side) than the Hunts had on the long side?
Finally, I believe you meant, "last refuge". Perhaps next time you paste this in another thread, you can amend it.
Don 't know how this will end but this
news made me so happy I'll buy myself
some extra silver tomorrow just to 'support'
the shorts a little extra.
R.I.P
What does this mean for the size differential between the paper and physical markets? That didn't appear in the text, or if it did I missed it.
Mark the physical up, or the paper down. Same difference.
Everything goes down against physical.
A long way.
Not really - if you're a bankster and you're short paper - you're looking at a win not a loss. Does anyone know how these alleged huge short positions got started? Why would the banks suppress price like this? What was the original purpose? Can anyone shed light on this for me? Thanks
Go to the Ted Butler archives
http://www.butlerresearch.com/archive-free.asp
enjoy.
It means those who demand physical first should get it,say the first 1%,the rest will have a nice certificate framed on the wall worth bugger all.
I think there is a premium on the redemption ... it would be ...
bugger all x (times) 115%.
Yup, just like getting your money out of the bank.
Only possible at the margin.
Think the silver slippers aproaching Oz closer and closer.
Just love fairy tales.
Wow, right to the root metaphor. L. Frank Baum loves you back.
And JPM had the temerity to ask if my licenses were "clean"
Love your country, burn a bank; figureatively of course.
Comex is a fraud that will be outed eventually, just like Madoff. This could be the beginning of the watershed of delivery taking.
To all of you defeatist, we're always going to be serfs forever and ever amen, nothing will come of it ftards..... Your attitude is giving you exactly what your apathetic fat ass deserves; a corrupt economy and government. Cease participation with the institutions you disagree with, that's all it takes.
Exactly, cease participation. Stoped trading in a Fidelity account, those fuckers execute a stop loss when it pleases them. Cavalier sons of bitches. Closed Wells-Fargo .. more and more fees, bunch of pretentious little shits called personal bankers. All monies out out of pensions, etc. Telling friends, others about the changes in money market rules.
Funny thing, the other day I was driving down the road and a regional bank branch had all its employees standing on the corner holding signs and waiving at the passing cars, I could not believe it. I go into two major banks that I have accounts with and exchange pennies for me and my kids to separate copper and find wheats, and they are as nice as can be. It seems times are hard around here for banks lately.
I saw two guys beating the shit out of a Wall Street banker the other day. I said to my buddy, "That's not fair. Let's see if we can help"
We entered the fray so as to make the odds better.
That banker took an awful beating.
I awoke with a smile all over my face.
This lawsuit will probely not be the straw,but it good
generate a lot of attention to the silvermarket.Once
people's attention is drawn to silver,some of them will
start buying the stuff or even better, people whom hold
these paper silver(ETF) will change them for real physical.
I have an idea. Everyone start taking delivery. _everyone_ After your last buy and the prices have skyrocketed, short paper. The price collapses, but you you have your physical, and made a profit on the the short paper if your counterparties still survive. If they don't, you still have your physical.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/10/full-text-of-cftc-commissioner-bart.html
"The Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which I strongly supported, contains new manipulation provisions as well as anti-disruptive trading rules. These new authorities, along with the implementation of thoughtful position limits in metals, will go a long way toward ensuring more efficient and effective metals markets devoid of fraud, abuse, and manipulation."
Heh heh ;-)
Brutal ...
As Adam Warner over at the Daily Options report points out, irrespective of the split’s success, the move finally and conclusively slams a nail into the ETN’s purported trackability with the VIX Index itself. Those who read the prospectus, of course, would have known from the onset that the product — despite its name — was never really even intended to perform such a task.
As Warner notes nevertheless:
All of this, though, is common knowledge for anyone really monitoring the effects of the contango roll on the product since inception:
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010/10/27/385376/whos-partial-to-a-vxx-...
4 for 1 reverse split = licence to print money for everyone other than the holders of said piece of garbage. A salutary lesson, as you say.
Good read...it hit the stop on my small position a few days after our exchange.
Like I said at the time (at least I believe I did)...having and using a brokerage account prevents me from doing really stupid things in my retirement accounts.
One must know themselves first before they can know someone else.
I look at the brokerage account as an insurance policy against one of my bad habits...the losses equal the winnings over a ten year period...as long as it remains that way I play ;-)
We have to understand something here. When Lloyd Blankfein said that they do "gods work" he was right to an extent.
The Federal Reserve and the 16 primary dealers faciliate the money and credit throughout the world and control the worlds reserve currency.
This syndicate of bankers in essence is more powerful than any combination of world leaders, or of all world leaders...combined.
It's important to understand that their power is not forced upon on us. We accept it as a way of life (kind of like how people choose religion)
We know it's not fair and we hate it... but we all have bank accounts, accept lines of credit from them, and transact in a currency that they control. So when they get sued, brought to court, brought in front of congress, they will always win.
This will go where everything else goes. A $60m fine and don't do it again.
...and don't expect much (if any) retribution for fraudclosure.
p.s - don't hate on me, just being a realist.
Agree completely with you.
"It's important to understand that their power is not forced upon on us. We accept it as a way of life (kind of like how people choose religion)"
- eh, maybe you accept it as a way of life, and a spineless wonder you are !!, no doubt you drank plenty of KoolAid, but the fact is, their power IS forced upon the people, at gun point. Try stepping out of line there guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wiRhVzsXFM
Rusty Shorts -
How do you pay for the internet bill?
and...
Did someone force you to pay it at gunpoint?
or...
Did you pay for it in fiat currency by choice?
Spoils of War of course, courtesy of President Andrew "'Ole Hickory" Jackson. Look into it.
And which currency did you use to pay your internet bill?
Seeing as you called me spineless, I am dying to know.
;)
- well, you see, I came up with my own script, and payed my internet bill with them...even backed the script with silver !! That's when my problems started, some dudes in Black Suits showed up at my door, held a gun to my head..and...do I have to spell it out for you?
I think you're spinless for talking shit on a system in which you are complicit.
...no, you didn't pay your internet bill in silver (or any imaginative derivative you made up in your schizophrenic brain)
Bahahahaha, complicit, are you kidding me? This shit was forced down our throats the day we were born. Wake Up.
bob, chill out, I'm on your side.
Yes, you are on his side. But calling someone a spineless wonder doesn't help the discourse. Perhaps finding the common ground first would help? (Yeah, I know. I'm a big one to talk...)
Bob, Rusty is in the same tight spot you and I and the rest are. The cradle into which we are born IS the system. They are outlawing Mid-wifery for god's sake.
To be out of the system is literally impossible. You see the system being implemented in a diverse and heterogeneous non-nation country like India through the innocuous mobile phone. The best tracking device devised. Eh?
Or you go find your self on an island somewhere.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
"through the innocuous mobile phone. The best tracking device devised."
Quite right.
But the batteries can be pulled or they can be lent to someone else or left somewhere while you carry on your business.
An immense amount of mischievous personal enjoyment can be had as long as we all know the rules ;-)
Indeed nm.
ORI
As an FYI...I believe knukles is more up to speed in the privacy department than either you or I.
Broach the subject with k sometime...we're all here to learn.
Acceptance and awareness, of the status quo are two entirely different things, and what is this we shit. You accept, don't go looking for company, you is who you control. Lay down if you want.
Crab Cake:
Not sure what that means.
God is the promise that you will be rewarded if you do what you are told. Priests promise the reward in the afterlife, while bankers promise your reward in this life. At best, both are trying to motivate people to not be lethargic. Neither religion nor banking are intrinsically bad, but like anything else can be corrupted. They compete with each other for people's time. Many religions are overt about this and ban the payment or collection of interest.
Fractional reserve banking motivates people to strive for something which does not yet exist. The bankers are right most of the time, but every once in a while they screw up and the promised reward fails to materialize. The track record of the priests is unknown.
The statement "Bankers do God's work" is true. It is trivially true.
Bankers do Satan's work
ok...work with me here people - think macro picture - WHY NOW, WHY THIS TIME??? Foreclosuregate and worthless MBS paper due to lack of perfecting of warranties and NOW THIS LAWSUIT. this suit is far from random in its timing. what macro picture is being painted by the timing of this suit? are these the seeds that are being planted to engineer a collapse of the markets?..........suggestions?? anyone?? TD??
You can only pile shit so high before it topples over. Every Ponzi eventually collapses. They can lie and deny, extend and pretend, look for another quick fix and another slick trick but eventually the whole shit pile collapses. This one has been slowly collapsing for 4 years now. Everybody knows something is wrong but they don't realise how bad it is because the MSM is still covering up and putting the spin on it.
...putting the spin on the shit...
I just know there is a fan involved somewhere. Could it be that somewhere, the wheels are coming off a bus?
Lets all sing tonight's news summary together boys and girls, we are all bozos on this bus.....
The shit on the fan goes round and round,
round and round,
round and round,
the shit on the fan goes round and round,
all through the town.
The vipers on the screen bull shit, shit, shit,
shit, shit, shit,
shit, shit, shit,
The vipers on the screen bull shit, shit, shit,
all the while we drown.
Bernake's stank mouth goes open and shut
Open and shut,
open and shut,
Bernake's stank mouth goes open and shut
What a fuckin' clown.
Your talents are being wasted here. Ever thought about writing Children's books a-la Dr. Suess?
Yep, the next great wealth transfer has begun..... from-banks-to-lawfirms. Who says there is no velocity these days. LOL
Success in this suit may mitigate the some of the effects of my execrable risk management in silver trades in 2008.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/jeffreychristian/jeffreychristian2008-09-17.html
doggis,
December Silver contracts are called undeliverable.(Harvey Organ, et.al.)
CFTC Judge rats out fellow Judge.
Bart Chilton says there is manipulation.
Lawsuit against JPM
All in 10 days time, I'm sure it's just a coincidence
clint - when you lay out the sequence of events as you have, and you put it that way - "coincidence it is my good fellow" . the beer is on me!!
LINK PLEASE!! I don't know how I could have missed this. If this is true, THIS is the reason silver isn't responding to these news stories. People aren't trusting the exchanges!
I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking watershed of events, not conspiracy (in this recent). If the CFTC says it's fraud, the lawyers have a green light and will make so much $$ they will not stop.
It will probably drag on like the tobacco suit, but silver has been freed. Who dares to manipulate now?
.
Nothing but net! h/t LeBronna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnxIITeNftE
What's really scary is that it's probably just a handful of traders at each firm who are responsible for most of it. I'd love to see a list of individual names.
That's not to excuse the banks. Not looking for a scapegoat here. It just shows when so much power in these markets is concentrated in the hands of so few, it creates a tremendous moral hazard with inevitable consequenses.
+1000 for a Signs reference.
Kudos Tyler
Oh btw apparantly the current value of above ground global gold to silver is 118 to one. Assuming a 59:1 gld:slv ratio on price means that there is twice as much above surface gold than silver.
Now what we need to know is below ground ratios and absolute weight in oz's. I f you happen to knwo be good chappy and share it with our group. I would love to know exactly when the element silver will become extinct. Thanks.
Most silver production is the result of other mining; it would be very difficult to estimate although some genius years age postulated that in the total earth's geology there is only 16 times more gold than silver; that's been the benchmark.
Yep I'm aware of the geological abundance ratio what I'm really looking for is what's left and how long will it take to consume it. I'm investing in silver on an 8-10yr basis but according to people such as Ted Butler we could see a seismic shift with the silver fraud now being addressed. I'd like to see some hard numbers to back up these claims including:
how naked are those naked shorts on silver
what the future consumption profiles look like
what future production profiles look like
current know reserves
current surface reserves
Surely the ZH community can focus its collective intellect onto this and get to the bottom of what is really happening out there with some cold hard facts.
As we all know Silver has been replaced by printed paper for many years.
Any chance we can trade Bart Chilton and Gary Gensler for Brian Beatty and Peter Laskaris? We'll even throw in a trillion Federal Reserve Notes and a player (Timmy "Cracked Bat" Geithner) to be named later.
And how many years will it take to prosecute all this fraud and manipulation? I'm gonna speculate it all winds up in the controlled Supreme Court where the controlled judges vote 5-4 in favor of the banks on all counts and form new legal prescedent in the "interest of national security". Of course instead of going ape shit, we all then sit on our la-z-boys and eat out Cheetos and watch our netflicks on our iPads and ignore it like everything else. We will be just like Argentina sooner than later.
Unfortunately, it is likely to end like this. The prosecution will be postponed, and postponed again, like for the FED or Fort Knox audit, until everybody forgets.
everything circling the drain is now going down the pipe. Thats why its all coming together. This is the orgasm we have been waiting for.
If you don't expect anything, you can't be disappointed. If you expect ecstasy and only get wonderful, you will be disappointed.
Don't let yourself make you disappointed.
Have not followed this story but what is the motivation? Are they way short the market due to some older derivative trades?
Be careful folks. As you can tell from repeated visits, always the same people talking up Gold & Silver.
It is a con job- people. They have MASSIVE shorts on Gold, rightfully so, wanting you to continue to buy buy buy so they can make retirement with 1 single trade.
The economy is recovering, even though it is slow. Be patient people, Grid lock is coming and the commentators will have nothing to doom about anymore scaring you into Gold.
In reference to that article, any fraud should be prosecuted. Even if it is over Gold or Silver.
P.S. Notice how doomers like Peter Schiff are not talking up Gold much anymore. I try and catch up on as many interviews as I can, just to keep spectrum. He isn't saying "5,000", "To "the Moon" anymore...
You either believe what you're saying and have no idea what you're doing, or vice versa. Which is it my friend?
It's perfectly plausible that a person can be thoroughly convinced, and wrong.
He's still buying gold. On hist last radio show he mentioned that he's still buying, and that was a day ago.
I would think that if they're already locked into "MASSIVE shorts", they would be imploring the rabble to sell (citing silver's links to genital shrinkage, cancer, and skin failure, no doubt); if they were looking to short, they would indeed be pushing the little people to buy.
Your notion about gridlock is akin to saying that once the Titanic finished scraping by the iceberg, there was "nothing to doom about anymore..." (sic)
On the contrary, the damage has been done. There will still be plenty to doom about once the passengers in steerage start noticing the water pouring in.
HEY! GET BACK IN YOUR CELL!
Don't make me get the hose!
Silver Porn
great news in terms of giving publicity and credibility to the obvious truth of a highly manipulated silver market. however, this will not stop or break the manipulation. these guys cannot and will not lose from within the legal system. the ONLY way this ends is if there are overwhelming requests for physical delivery outside of the comex vault system, followed by a fully fledged paper default, crash and price discovery on the real thing.
JPM et al will still be protected on the paper side in that scenario by their friends in the gov and legal system. just the paper price won't matter and paper itself will be discredited a whole load more.
There already is overwhelming demand for physical delivery from the COMEX warehouse. The point is that JPM is allowed to naked short this market while the CFTC has been silent. Two years after investors scream for an investigation there is suddenly a statement from Bart Chilton coming down from the mountain proclaiming the obvious.
yup, a lot of stress at the good ol' comex recently. i was just saying that the paper market has to completely and epically fail before anything of value will come out of the situation. investigations by the bankers against the bankers is all just fluff and noise, the publicity and awareness that comes from things like this is more interesting.
"It is a con job- people. They have MASSIVE shorts on Gold, rightfully so, wanting you to continue to buy buy buy so they can make retirement with 1 single trade.
The economy is recovering, even though it is slow. Be patient people, Grid lock is coming and the commentators will have nothing to doom about anymore scaring you into Gold."
Lol. Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
http://www.businessinsider.com/reasons-why-the-gold-bubble-will-burst-20...
#5 Interest rates are at zero and the Fed is printing money. Eventually interest rates will begin to go up as the economy firms (which it will do at even the slightest hint of re-inflation), driving up the value of the dollar. Gold will collapse at that moment.
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDD
when people start talking like this, I know it is a bubble.Makes me fear for those who listen because I don't want anyone to lose their life's savings just because a few people are unhappy that this country is not falling apart into ruin.
TO ANY NON-BROKERS... BE CAREFUL!
I suppose you are aware of all the fraud in the MBSs? And unemployment? And all the jobs still being shipped overseas? And the shut down in lending? Right, you know about all this and make comments like this?
Show us that the economy is improving like you said in an earlier comment. I want to be convinced. I am a damsel in fucking distress. Save me from myself, big stuff.
disclaimer: gold is not actually in a bubble. posting the article claiming fed printing money and ZIRP is a reason FOR a bubble and not the opposite is to point out the hillarious stupidity of mainstream commentators.
god bless the tin hatters!!! i wear a strap on mine to keep it from falling off because i'm afraid the krazy glue will dissolve....
"The lawsuit, which seeks class action status, alleges that "between in or about March 2008 and continuing through the present, "
why so stingy with the time? they could go back to the 1980s and find manipulation galore down to the present time....
the suit should have alleged (as fact) that not only is the concentration high at jpm et al but that the percentage nakedly shorted represented fabulously large percentages of total WORLD silver output for 1 year.
fuck jpm chase!!!
I'm glad I read the rest of your comment. I got hung up on that one and thought you might be Shelia from the SEC.
I'm sorry, I see jokes everwhere. I need the adrenaline rush from the laugh, forgive me please. I'm a raped tax payin' fool, it's all I got.
"I wear a strap on..."
No, no, no, no. You are doing it wrong. See here for the correct way....note step 7. It's worth checking the testimonials also.
Good for those laughs I like so well, too.
let's all thank Tyler and his team for the diligent and non-stop utter brilliant work that they do.
you guys are simply the best.
Here here!
Yep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TylvUGJIi_w
I guess the lessons of the Hunt Brothers go unlearned. Silver is not some shit-botique commodity like gold, silver has many industrial uses, as does copper. You try to corner the market on materials like this, you start pissing off a lot of businesses who rely on these commodities. Dumb fucking idiots.
Net effect on reality, the prices, and the futures:
$0.00
Folks, this is the Fed, and you don't F with the Fed.
The tinfoil hats are now on the heads of msm. Kudos to ZH for an epic bulletin.
Bronx cheer to my fellow ZHers for failing to connect the dots.
Dot one: If China is accumulating PM (not to mention REEs) why would it not deploy its very own stooge superbank (HKSBC) to depress prices? Why would it not hire foreign mercenary IBs to assist HKSBC in the suppression?
Dot two: Why would not "interested parties" who knew the purpose of PM accumulation (getting off the dollar) blow the whistle?
Dot three: Why would not the folks crying for revaluation of Chinese currency use PM price suppression lawsuit threats as leverage to get what they want?
Dot four: The trial lawyers are known as en bloc contributors to the Dem Party. This action unleashes trial lawyers to follow the money trail in class action lawsuits. The Chinese revaluation effort seems located in the current Administration and Congress, both Dem. A coincidental convergence? Can they call off their party comrades if a deal is struck?
Hypothetical dot: I think China believes it will take PM to secure the resources it needs to grow to the next level; that Another's earlier projection of oil deals linked to gold futures is in play at a broader commodity level and if not now, certainly later.
The question for us at ZH is whether this move is a reversible bluff against China or an irreversible declaration of war against the renminbi .
I'm familiar with the old canard about trial lawyers being Democrats due to some genetic proclivity for tort lawsuits which illogically leads to the conclusion that they hate big business which is supposedly a Republican stronghold. But I really can't believe this has anything to do with the Democratic Party Machine.
Please refer to the Open Secrets website:
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=k01
Yes I know. But I still don't understand how class action lawsuits in the silver market would benefit the Democratic Party.
Oh my! the goldbugs are going to be proven right! AM finished! Is it too late to change sides? I always loved gold, it was Jamie made me do it! Gold to the moooonn!
We were talking silver, IIRC. Have had much opportunity to buy gold in the last year but have always bought silver instead.
bloomberg covering it tonight
JPMorgan, HSBC Accused of Manipulating Silver Futures By Joel Rosenblatt and Bob Van Voris - Oct 27, 2010 8:12 PM ETThe office complex of GMAC Mortgage. Photographer: Bradley C. Bower/Bloomberg
JPMorgan Chase & Co. and HSBC Holdings PLC were sued by an investor claiming they manipulated silver futures and options prices in violation of U.S. antitrust law by placing “spoof” trading orders.
The investor, Peter Laskaris, alleges that starting in March 2008, the banks colluded to suppress silver futures so that call options, or the right to buy, would decline, and put options for the right to sell would increase, according to the complaint filed today in federal court in Manhattan. The collusion was also intended to maintain prices at levels at which some options would expire as worthless, Laskaris claims.
The banks placed so-called spoof trading orders, or the “submission of a large order which is not executed but influences prices and is then withdrawn before it reasonably can be executed,” according to the complaint.
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission began probing allegations of price manipulation in the silver futures market in September 2008. At a hearing in Washington yesterday, CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton said there have been “fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control” silver prices and that violators should be prosecuted.
Joseph Evangelisti, a spokesman for New York-based JPMorgan, declined to comment. Juanita Gutierrez, a spokeswoman for London-based HSBC, also declined to comment.
Separate, Similar Complaint
A separate, similar complaint filed today on behalf of investor Brian Beatty, and naming the same banks as defendants, claims a whistleblower contacted the CFTC last year and reported the banks’ conspiracy to suppress prices of silver futures to profit from “enormous” short positions in silver futures.
The banks reduced their collusive trading and their holdings in the futures market after a government investigation of silver futures manipulation began in March, according to the complaint filed by Laskaris, which seeks class-action status. Since the banks cut back on their silver futures trading, prices have increased about 50 percent, the suit alleges.
“These price changes directly result, at least in one substantial part, from defendants’ reduction in their concentration and other reductions of their unlawful activities in the silver markets since the government investigation,” according to the Laskaris complaint.
Comex Trades
Laskaris described himself as a New York resident who traded in silver futures and claims damages based on the collusion. The trades at issue in the complaint were made on the Commodity Exchange Inc. division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, Laskaris said in the complaint. Beatty, a resident of Connecticut, makes the same claim.
Christopher Lovell, a lawyer representing Laskaris, didn’t immediately return a call seeking comment after business hours.
Chilton spoke yesterday at a hearing in Washington on regulations to implement the Dodd-Frank financial overhaul, which became law in July and gave the commission a year to establish rules governing the $615 trillion over-the-counter derivatives market.
Silver futures for December delivery fell 42.6 cents, or 1.8 percent, to close at $23.404 an ounce on the Comex in New York. The price has gained 39 percent this year.
The cases are Laskaris v. JPMorgan Chase & Co., 10-8157, and Beatty v. JPMorgan Chase, 10-8146, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
To contact the reporters on this story: Joel Rosenblatt in San Francisco atjrosenblatt@bloomberg.net; Bob Van Voris in New York at rvanvoris@bloomberg.net.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-25/u-s-state-officials-investigate-after-gmac-halts-evictions.html
You'd think spoofing was illegal or something.
Like the rest of you, I would very much like to get excited about this story. However, naked shorting is practically encouraged by the SEC.
If you don't know what I am talking about, all you need to do is check the RegSho list during the summer of 2007...and then compare it to the Spring/Summer of 2009...just after the collapse. ftp://ftp.nasdaqtrader.com/symboldirectory/regsho
Anyone think maybe the SEC was conveniently slow on that whole fail to deliver problem...you know, until a 50% correction had occurred?
You'll get it all pretty quickly. This is not to say that I am not rooting for JP Morgan to finally experience some justice...oh, I am.
This brand seems to be taking some serious damage. Wonder if Dimon is worrying at all yet?
probably not. even having a decent rep doesn't seem to be very important these days. ask the US gov.
Get on my level, ho
http://tinyurl.com/3x636zy
NOTE: this is a google doc
CIVIL WAR!
Max Kieser
http://maxkeiser.com/
With a plug for ZH early on
Events are accelerating.
We want to be paid in silver when justice is done.
Ok, may I right the headline?
JPM settles SLV Fraud Case
JPM has settled a class action law suit that alleged the Financial Investment giant was manipulating the price of silver. Although they deny all wrong doing, they agree to pay 10million dollars on legal fees and provide ten dollar Wal-Mart gift certificates to all the plaintiffs.
JPM nuts cracked in vice, HSBC cop Chinese burn
JPM today had their testicles crushed in a vice as they attempted to fight a class action law suit that alleged the financial investment giant was illegally fucking around with the price of silver for its own nefarious ends. Although they deny all wrong doing, they didn't 'bank' on coming up against one the few remaing honest judges remaining in the USA. Usual CFTC judge was found hiding in the girls toilets counting silver pieces after the hearing. Co-accused HSBC was sentenced to a series of modern day Chinese burns to the nether regions using home town invented product, gunpowder.
HSBC and JPM both are now considered world class coloratura sorpranos.
The plaintifs requested to paid out in silver.
You are just too hopeful for me. Aghhh, need more coffee before all that sunshine your pumping.
So what happens to silver now, will they still be at it, or will they dessist for a time?
What happens now is "In 'N' Out"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f08yZ4Lc9kY
Fuck JPM and their shananagians! They've sucker punched us for years. I just hope the Judge doesn't grow a vagina during the trial.
Indeed JPM has been so stragecially stupid/arrogant that it has left itself vulnerable to destruction. A few big pocket determined buyers could really do it to them. I am sure China has a need for more stock piles of silver whilst the price is 'low' not to mention other countries....then there is gold. At what stage does it cause JPM to explode?
Times are a changin.Pretty sure all this hard asset buying by the likes of Iran,Russia,China, does not bode well for the current system.If the Dollar continues to collapse and the prices and profits that go with selling raw materials loose profit in real terms there will come a tipping point at which the states who hold the cards rewrite the system,they develope there own system.You have shut down your industries,rely on oil and import most things to keep your country running.If those imports increase in cost due to currencies hardening,overnight you start getting huge instability and real wealth drifting away,the tipping point.However these states disguise their Gold purchases the results will not be nice,physical is the key.Paper certificates mean the same ounce of Gold or Silver is probably owned by 100 different people,as the price increases the end result of the wheels coming off becomes more and more atomic.Probably big issues between America and China here and implications on trade wars,currency wars and QE,further complicated politically by a collapsing regime in Washington.VERY interesting time ahead.
I wouldn't count on any central bank (even/particularly China's) going against JPM -- they're all in on the 'fix'. We can only count on the 'Gold Vigilantes', or other angry/indignant investors with very deep pockets ('Silver Vigilantes', anyone?), to take them on and try to take them down.
that's all what will happen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wIMpe9SjfQ
There is no way you tinfoil hat, conspiracy theory, gold/silver bug lunatics are right about all this. This is the 21st Century not the Dark Ages.
http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip366648
BTW the Plaintiffs in this case are traders on the COMEX floor.
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