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Karl Denninger Explains Foreclosure-Gate On The Ratigan Show

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Karl Denninger, who has been tracking the issue of title fraud in the mortgage space for years, was on the Dylan Ratigan show earlier, and not only provided one of the most comprehensive explanations of where we are, how we got here, and where we are going (unfortunately nowhere pleasant) to date, but also was gleefully and sarcastically rhetorical with his closing remarks: "What if we find that of these $6 trillion in securities that are out there, outstanding right now, half or more of them are defective. You put them back on the banks and they all blow up. You know what - we have a resolution authority under Frank-Dodd, how about if we use it?" We would only add that courtesy of second degree, third degree, and fourth degree leverage, as we presented yesterday, the final amount of net capital at risk, courtesy of numerous other layers of debt, will end up being far, far greater than just $3 trillion. And yes, there is a reason why the OCC keeps a track of the $233 trillion in total derivatives held by US banks.

Full clip:

 

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Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:03 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

ROCK ON.

You posters, don't be haters. This is great that this is getting out there!

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:43 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

That was a good news piece!!!

Denninger was great.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:43 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I agree. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:25 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I think this needs a name besides Foreclosure-Gate. There are many different elements to the issue, and the robo-signers are but one of the elements - and arguably the one that gathers the most "kick the deadbeat out" type responses. 

The original sin of this all is that ORIGINAL notes/deeds of trust were not properly transferred. In some not insignificant percentage of cases, these original documents were destroyed, no longer exist, or cannot be found. Additionally, many were not transferred appropriately into RMBS trusts, and cannot be transferred in retroactively. The paperwork for millions of homes is in complete limbo and FUBAR.

That is why they are lying on affidavits, because they have to. The dog ate their homework.

I'd like to get another name started for this -gate. Some really lame ideas below (and PLEASE add, but it's important to focus on the original sin of the banks not to handle their own documents appropriately):

Documentation-gate

Wet Ink-gate 

Where's-the-note-gate?

It's late, I know these are terrible. It's gotta focus on the start of the process. The foreclosure issues are symptoms, not the cause, per se.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 03:55 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

Stamp-gate?

 

Incorporates your wet ink concept=rubber stamp.

housing ~ postage stamp sized yard. When viewed from above (or by somebody high and mighty), thats what neighborhoods look like. A patchwork of "small value things" lumped together. CDO/MBS.

Stamps have a monetary value printed on them typically for a specific use. But can be made invalid for that use regularly by act of congress. (changing first class rates/FinReg).  Then you need to scab together a bunch of them to send your letter. which looks pretty sloppy on the envelope. Hints at the inflating away all your problems approach.

Mortgages are not quite money. You can't go into a bank with a stamp and exchange for currency. But at the same time, some stamps are worth far more than their face value to person who values it for some reason.

If the stamp falls off the envelop it gets kicked around for quite a while then either gets returned to sender or lost in the dead letter repository of the postal system. Kinda like the National Treasure/Indiana Jones and the lost arc warehouse. Implies lots of Drama about something that is eventually a futile endeavor.

Counterfeiting stamps is (or was) a common and profitable thing. Carried less risk than counterfeiting actual currency. Because for a while detection/enforcement was pricier than just delivering the letter. If somebody gives you a fake $100 bill you really feel cheated and or a criminal by proxy if/when you try to use it. If you get a letter with a fake stamp on it you are not that upset. The only thing to be upset about is if something important does not get to or from you because of the invalidity of the stamp.

 

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:42 | Link to Comment zot23
zot23's picture

I vote for "Padlock on the Gate"

That seems to be the most common result of the fraud.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:44 | Link to Comment bingaling
bingaling's picture

 

Infinite hedge gate - where on a long enough timeline everything was supposed to go to infinity

 

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 04:55 | Link to Comment Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

"Sign zee papers gate " 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:53 | Link to Comment JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

notary bitchez gate

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:07 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Good morning you fucking prick. Nice to see you round the blog. :-)

I assume this is how you want to be treated or I wouldn't do it, bitch. If you were the real one, I wouldn't do it because I'd know for sure he'd want it. Wouldn't want to make him that happy, to give him the abuse he craves.

JonNadler is your whipping boy, your effigy. He wants your hate.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 04:53 | Link to Comment Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

I agree too . Denninger has been on this like a duck on a junebug for a long time . Its nice when the cons are shown forth for what they are . CONS!! Prosecute to the fullist of the law ( well... what laws we used to have ) Kudos to Karl

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:38 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Hephasteus

Karl has no idea what he is talking about.  He is pretending or has no idea how the process works.  There is no loan, anyone that says the bank lends you money to buy a house which is what he is talking about... doesn't know what they are talking about.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:25 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

That still doesn't mean he hasn't done a great job on these pieces or in the interview. There's no such thing as a teacher. All teaching requires learning and all learning requires teaching. He's teaching what he sees and how he sees it. Of course he's blocking some of the learning pathway that could help him understand things better by being a nazi know it all. But I think that will come.

He's honest and I can assure you he's had the fuck beat out of him for it. But I don't think they've bent him so much he can't expand beyond it and encapsulate the fuck out of the big picture.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:29 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Hephasteus - here's what I wonder about Karl.  Are you familiar with the Volkswagon/Cadilac theory of line blocking?  What it means is that if some enormous defensive end is going to crush your QB, you can't take him on head-on, instead you hit him in the side and drive him off course, like a VolksWagon to a Cadilac.  Like a more sophisticated Beck or Palin.  Amy Goodman, Noam, others, line up on the left flank.

Anyone who won't talk about the role of the Fed is not for real.

Edit: Or had the shit beat out of him which is a pretty sad thing to have to say.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:50 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya. It's in the comfort zone. When he's comfortable and secure he's fucking dangerous to them. So they probably had to beat the shit out of him and constantly attack to keep him in way out in the scared zone or way out in the cocky zone.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You are quirky as shit Heph, but that's some strong, compassionate, stuff you wrote up there. All of us are at where we are at. Love the heart of the warrior who craves integrity. We all see some stuff better than others, we all have blind spots. 

Really nice post. 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

No, the real fun begins when the average American realizes the truth.  What is the truth, you were never given a loan and the banks can't show a loss or damage from the non-existent loan. 

You guys have only scratched the surface.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:51 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

<Sarcasm> Only 233 Trillion? I thought they were talking real money. </sarcasm> The numbers are already ridiculous to attempt to comprehend.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:04 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Do you round 233 trillion up to 235 trillion or down to 230 trillion?  In once case it's 3 trillion, on the other it's only 2 trillion.  Is it really 233 trillion or is it 232 trillion 800 billion-- give or take a few hundred billion?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:52 | Link to Comment molecool
molecool's picture

Yeah, but it's just Dollars...

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

You can't simply turn an obligation to pay X amount over equal periods of time to equal damages when the party fails to complete their obligation. 

"If you lend money to My people, to the poor among you, you are not to act as a creditor to him; you shall not charge him interest” Exodus 22:25

You guys really don't want the Truth. 

The banks receive your mortgage note without risking one cent.

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve and spells it out clear what is going on and what people refuse to want to know.  And for good reason, you world will be turned upside down.

“In the federal courts, it is well established that a national bank has not power to lend its credit to another by becoming surety, indorser, or guarantor for him.”' Farmers and Miners Bank v. Bluefield Nat 'l Bank, 11 F 2d 83, 271 U.S. 669

"It has been settled beyond controversy that a national bank, under federal Law being limited in its powers and capacity, cannot lend its credit by guaranteeing the debts of another. All such contracts entered into by its officers are ultra vires . . ." Howard & Foster Co. v. Citizens Nat'l Bank of Union, 133 SC 202, 130 SE 759(1926).

"It is not within those statutory powers for a national bank, even though solvent, to lend its credit to another in any of the various ways in which that might be done." Federal Intermediate Credit Bank v. L 'Herrison, 33 F 2d 841, 842 (1929).

"There is no doubt but what the law is that a national bank cannot lend its credit or become an accommodation endorser." National Bank of Commerce v. Atkinson, 55 E 471.

“A bank is not the holder in due course upon merely crediting the depositors account.” Bankers Trust v. Nagler, 229 NYS 2d 142, 143.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:09 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Welcome back Mako.  I havent seen a post from you in a while, but I was happy to see your input on this thread.  Your posts get me thinking more than most.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:23 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

People tend to believe fiction.  If you were born to parents that believe the Moon is made out of cheese, well, chances are you will believe the moon is made out of cheese.

Modern Money Mechanics by the Federal Reserve spells out the process step by step, states it plainly how the Demand Deposit Account moves the promissory note.

Everyone is playing pretend. What is the Truth?

THERE IS NO MORTGAGE.

You created currency by simply signing the mortgage note.

Read The Law of Fraudulent Transactions, by Peter A. Alces, ISBN 0-7913-0310-1

  •  

      “However that may be, a plaintiff cannot convert a claim of damages for breach of contract into an equitable claim by the facile trick of asking that the defendant be enjoined from refusing to honor its obligation to pay the plaintiff what the plaintiff is owed under the contract and appending to that request a request for payment of the amount owed. A claim for money due and owing under a contract is "quintessentially an action at law."  HYPERLINK "http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=602&SerialNum=1996142036&Find..." \t "_top" Hudson View II Associates v. Gooden, 222 A.D.2d 163, 644 N.Y.S.2d 512, 516 (1996); see also  HYPERLINK "http://web2.westlaw.com/Find/Default.wl?DB=708&SerialNum=1977118754&Find..." \t "_top" Atlas Roofing Co. v. Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm'n, 430 U.S. 442, 459, 97 S.Ct. 1261, 51 L.Ed.2d 464 (1977).”

      Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. Associates' Health and Welfare Plan v. Wells 213 F 3d 398, 401

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:27 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Welcome back, I too enjoy your posts.  The information you post is very interesting, thanks.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Once you realize there is no mortgage, you start to see how foolish this whole song and dance show is.  People are worried about false signatures, well, how in the world is the bank foreclosing on an agreement when no loan was given but only an exchange. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:12 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Love that movie.  Unfortunately Karl is once again believing there is a spoon.  You will never find the spoon.  

Karl is mistaken, what Karl is talking about is paper (a loan) which never existed.  He is playing make pretend.  The bank is precluded from lending it's own credit.  He has no idea what he is talking about once again.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:35 | Link to Comment Glass Steagall
Glass Steagall's picture
Yep. 'Man speaks the truth. This is an entirely voluntary system.
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:22 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

I think we're aware that Banks are just the originators of the mortgages, they rarely keep the mortgages.  However, as originators, don't they have responsibilty to have the paperwork strait and can't they be sued for damages if they made mistakes?  How do you punish a bank?  You can't sue them for damages because they would have to pay with money from their deposits (it isn't their money.)

Nationalize them?

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:28 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

The fiction with mortgages is that there is no mortgage.  They originate a mortgage that never existed, then they pawn that which does not exist to a 3rd party. 

Oh, you don't want to even know how far the rabbit hole goes.

They can't sue for damages they didn't possible have nor could have, well of course they can trick the stupid homeowner into believing that and leaving the keys in the door.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:36 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Dwelling on this for a second, is this how it goes?: A bank decides they want to give a "mortgage" to a borrower. They create a debit for the amount of the mortgage on their ledger (out of thin air).  They then sell the debit to Fannie Mae for the amount of the mortgage.  Fannie mae cuts the bank a check for amount to the mortgage.  The borrower then pays Fannie mae for the duration of the mortgage and the bank sits there and counts their checks.  If this is right, legally, how are they able to open that debit in the first place?  Do they buy CDS's and count the as a credit?  How did Fannie get the money to buy the mortgage? Sell bonds?  This is interesting.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

The money came from you when you signed, your signature created that which they claimed they loaned you.  They never once loaned you anything.   Your so called mortgage note goes into a checking account, they then withdraw to pay for the house they claimed they loaned you. 

They just got equity in your house without one dollar.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:50 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Ahhh. Like a diamond....Like a diamond bullet right through my forehead (kurtz).... The credit was created on the spot at the closing.  The banker "wired" the money after I created it by signing the mortgage contract.  No money existed prior to me signing.  My signature created a credit (a debt to me) with the bank for the amount of the mortgage. They then wired this "money" to the seller.  My debt contract was then sold down the chain.  If this is right, Bernanke would be proud.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Basically it.  Modern Money Mechanics covers most of it.  It's all fiction, people are pretending they got a mortgage and the bank loves the idea that people believe they are getting mortgage or a car loan or a credit card credit. 

People are starting to get it unfortunately at the end of all this... will be chaos.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Jesus.  I think I grasped it.  Jesus.  I sign a promise to pay.  The bank then puts a lien on an asset. From the asset they created a credit.  They then pay the seller.  I pay the bank and they hold a lein on a new asset.  They didnt use any of their money.  Infact they charged an origination fee for it.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:32 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Exactly.

The problem is, well unless you are the person that has parents that believe the moon is made out of cheese... there is no way for the bank to convert a failure to pay on an obligation into damages... the bank must show damages, but unless they actually made a loan which they did not do they can't show damages. 

They can't lend their own credit and they can't show damages because no loan existed. 

Of course, it will take the sheeple a few more years to figure this out, either way the system is coming to an end.

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:50 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

In a world with a cheese moon, a good borrower would pay of the mortgage over 30 years at 5% interest.  They bank makes 5% per year over 30 years for being a paper pusher.  They risked no capital.

Edit: and it all worked if only prices went up.  With prices down, people start to ask if the moon really is made of cheese.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:59 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Correct. 

Once the system starts to implode everyone is then faced with cold hard facts.  People have been living in a lie, the Truth always wins the war.  Humans are running from the Truth, and for good reason at this point.... the unfunded liabilities will have to be liquidated.

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:18 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Humans are running from the Truth, and for good reason at this point.... the unfunded liabilities will have to be liquidated.

Yes.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:31 | Link to Comment djrichard
djrichard's picture

In the end, we're all naked short sellers - we're counterfeiting the currency ourselves that we're borrowing, hoping that its diluted/cheaper/inflated when we pay it back (with interest LoL!).

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 02:51 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

It's the magic money creation portion of banking system that DETERMINES THE RULES OF HOME OWNERSHIP. You can not run this kind of system and have 100 percent home ownership. You even touch the magic numbers of 67 percent home ownership you break the fuck out of the system. You can tweak it with high prison populations which is what the US has done and you can tweak it by making people sick and unable to move away from family support. So bring on the crime and poison.

If you ever do a Iching reading and the change line says....

The king grants you a house.

It means the king is going to kill someone, hurt someone, or put somoene in prison cause there's no other way it works under this system.

Especially if the economy gets highly unrelative to each other. New York and California have to take one for the team.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/census/historic/owner.htm

When we reached full employment and congress started whining for more home ownership they had no idea they would completely break this fraudulant system.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:44 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

What if they loan out money that was loaned to them by their depositors? Maybe they can't use their own credit but they can use their depositor's cash.

Then the bank  has a loan to a customer which is an asset, and a loan from a depositor which is a liability. This is known as double entry bookkeeping which has been the basis of banking since the Rennaisance.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Rex Crotch
Rex Crotch's picture

How did the bank not use any of their money if they paid the selleer?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

You signed the note which was then deposited into an account from which they could withdraw the necessary funds.

The bank does not have $250,000 sitting there for you to lend you.  They take your note put into an account then withdraw from YOUR account to pay the seller.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 00:53 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Good stuff Mako.  Thanks for all the clearity, which in hindsight seems obvious.

Speaking of obvious hindsight ... Did you ever hear the story of il Duomo, the cathedral in Florence, Italy?  It took 140 years to build.  When they layed out the plan, it included an enormous space covered by a dome.  At the time construction was begun, no one knew how to construct/engineer the enormous dome required.

Eventually, all was finished but the dome, il Duomo in Italian.  So the city fathers decided they would have a competition and whoever won would recieve the right to design and complete the cathedral.  The competition consisted of demonstrating a technique that would allow an egg to stand on end on a flat piece of marble.  Many potential 'geniuses' queued up to demonstrate their abilities.  All failed.  Finally, a guy named Filippo Brunelleschi stepped up and ...

 

...giving one end a blow on the flat piece of marble, made it stand upright...The [other] architects protested that they could have done the same; but Filippo answered, laughing, that they could have made the dome too, if they had seen his design.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Brunelleschi

 

 

 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:48 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

They used money they borrowed from their depositors. Then they sold the mortgage and got the money back, then loaned the money out, sold the loan, etc.

The suckers who wound up holding the bag with all the phony loans, were Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac (which used taxpayer's money) pension funds, German banks and other big investors.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:55 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Then the bank moves in to foreclose on your house, which they never put one dollar into to get that equity.   What they are really doing is converting the failure to pay on an obligation into damages and equity relief as specified in the case above. 

There is no damage to the bank, the bank had no skin in the game.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:00 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Sort of....

The law does not care what "consideration" is given by the parties...  essentially, it is not the court's providence to determine whether a deal is "good".  In other words, practically speaking, if you promise to do something in exchange for another promise, then that's good enough.  Further, even though the bank will be recompensed instantly or close thereto, each entity is independent and an island unto itself, despite seemingly acting in concert.

The big issue is that you're overlooking the fact title is transferred to the debtor.  Some how, somewhere, some way money got created to build the house and transfer the value of that house to the debtor.  If nothing else, you've got an unjust enrichment claim...  I'll tell you that going into court and saying "the bank created that money out of thin air, therefore I should get the house free and clear" is not going to fly with even the most narcoleptic judge.  Someone is the rightful party to foreclose on that home after the debtor defaults...

Now, how did that money get created?  Well, obviously there is a liability higher up the chain.  Now there is where the story actually gets interesting...  and, if enough liabilities pile up, higher up the chain, what happens?  (other than doing everything possible not to be sucked into the abyss).

PS, the common law has largely been thrown to the wind when states set up their own foreclosure statutes...  general policy concepts of centuries of knowledge get usurped with a pen in an instant.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:51 | Link to Comment I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

The money comes from the banks leverage, but the banks immediately sell to fannie and freddie so the money is actually coming from them...err, I mean the taxpayer because there is no mortgage market and fannie and freddie are broke, meaning the banks are unwilling to hold the mortgages on their books.  Once again the taxpayer is getting screwed courtesy of the banks.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 03:35 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The banks didn't sell to the GSEs all along...  now, maybe the kids that did their homework knew that the GSEs would eventually be used as a bad bank and they could keep on getting record bonuses...  (or knew the people who they could pay to make the necessary votes to make it happen).  But, technically speaking, the GSEs taking 100% of the mortgage market is more or less a reactionary behavior to what happens when enough money is created out of thin air...

We can't really have it both ways...  either the banks are insolvent or they aren't...  they can't create money out of thin air on the one hand and then also be insolvent on the other...  (if they're insolvent, what is the liability?  And to who?).  The real analysis is vastly more complicated...

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:20 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

GSEs are just the bagholders in the event a loan blows up.  Their guaranty offers some level of comfort to the "investors" buying the stream of income by insuring the principal loan amount.  Recent changes have backstopped GSEs to infinity and beyond.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:01 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Macho,

It's irrelevant whether or not you got a house for nothing. 

You would go for dismissal on the lack of "standing", if the county court doesn't cooperate, you can actually just file a Bankruptcy court petition or you can move the action to Federal Court over a federal issue.... ie, the attorney or plaintiff is not the holder in due course is a DEBT COLLECTOR. 

You can go through BK cases and the attorney for the bank will come in to lift the stay for foreclosure, Petitioner challenges Attorney also known as a DEBT COLLECT.  Debt collector gets the hell out of there.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 18:39 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not really, the courts are presented a very confusing situation and the debtor is attempting to eat his cake and have it too (see this saying often misphrased on this site...  pet peeve).  Here is the issue, if the bottom did not fall out of the market, would the debtor have obtained title of the property free and clear?  I'll pretend I'm a county judge...  in walks mr debtor saying the bank has no standing to sue.  I say ok mr fancy pants, did you get transferred title of the property?  Yep.  If you could make the payments, as agreed, would you have obtained clear title?  Yep.  Ok, so why should I care if the money is created out of thin air?

On the one hand, you have the legal avenue....  but nothing is stopping lienholders from obtaining judgments in equity...  you can always sue for unjust enrichment, get a judgment lien, and then foreclose the same.

I've said it once and I'll say it again...  this whole mess is simply going to protect the first in priority while the dog and pony show gets fixed...  there is still a rightful party to bring an action against the debtor that will eventually lead to recovery of the property...  the problem is that plaintiffs have been incredibly stupid in how they have proceeded...  and the real problem is not prospectively, but retroactive uncovering of the (probably fairly often) scienterless fraud.  I really think most of this sounds vastly closer to negligence than fraud...  just to be accurate.  (fraud to the court, negligence to subsequent transferrees of the liens).

What they need to do is set up a federal mortgage court that will solely hear mortgage cases that attempt to determine the correct party to bring foreclosure suits and to clear up the proper parties to the liens.  Once they get the greenlight from that court, you'd have a precedent that forbids a lower court from challenging the proper party...  then it's game on *garth voice*.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:05 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

And we could make the same analogy/connection with US Treasury purchases. The Federal Reserve and Primary Dealers purchase Treasuries, an interest-bearing claim on the future productivity/taxes of US citizens, by creating money out of thin air.

In return for nothing, the US taxpayers must pay interest.

But the US Treasury could issue its own money per the Constitution, without interest and without debt (backed by PM's or not). The entire Federal Reserve Note/US Treasury debt scam is at the heart of the scam of the century (the existence of the privately-held Fed). That is the reason why the income tax was created at the same time the Fed was. It did not have to be this way. 

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The bank loaned out their depositor's money.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:03 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Well, dollars did flow, to the seller of the home. So something happened that the bank attempted to document with a note, setting forth the principal and interest payment obligation, and the mortgage, whereby the otherwise unsecured obligation to pay money was secured.

But this whole concept of creating money from nothing and charging for the privilege is quite fascinating, I'll grant you. One way to think through is to ask, well, if we're not going to use this fait currency, money-from-nothing-money-is-debt system, how would it work? If the answer is lending can only come from accumulteed capital, doesn't the world's economic system contract like mad?

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:45 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Ned Zeppelin

Yes.  It's going to contract it doesn't matter what you use as money as long as humans continue to attach interest to their medium of exchange.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:12 | Link to Comment subversive
subversive's picture

Money flowed (kind of).  The whole system inherently assumes that if you sell a house for $200,000 that you won't take that money and put it under your mattress, but that you will go put it back in the bank.  And even when you withdraw it to buy a tv, the store will take that money and in turn put it back into the bank.  So the whole system depends on the "money" staying in the bank one way or another.  That is why banks are terrified of people actually monetizing their money.  If everyone tried to "cash out" their assets, there wouldn't be even close to enough actual money in the system to cover it.  However, when somebody doesn't pay their mortgage it does cause damages, because when a loan is paid back, the money credit that was created is destroyed.  But if the mortgage isn't paid back, the money can't be destroyed and then there is extra "money" in the system.  So the banks must liquidate the "asset" in order to destroy the created money.  The evil in the system is not that the money is created and then destroyed, it is that the banks can charge interest on money they lent that was not theirs in the first place and the fact that there can't be enough money in the system for everyone to afford to pay the interest without inflation occuring. 

As far as a money system that would work?  I am NOT in favor of a gold back currency.  It doesn't make sense to have a currency back by a limited resource that has no connection to the actual value of an economy.  It makes more sense to me to have a currency as a function of the relationship between the value of the assets in a given economy and the number of people participating in that economy. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:58 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Thanks Mako Man.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:02 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

No problem.  Have a good one.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:10 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Yes thanks Mako, this is fascinating. Once again, everything is upside down and falling. As CD would say, it's all one big psych

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 04:33 | Link to Comment theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

This keeps being repeated, and I think it is wrong.

The original guy who sold the house to you, he got paid in full didn't he?

So who paid him?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:17 | Link to Comment bingaling
bingaling's picture

The money isn't real. The bank creates money literally out of thin air in this transaction . The person who paid is the wizard of OZ . Faith in the value of money is what paid him that is all .

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:30 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

CON-fidence.

At the end of the lifespan of such a banking system there is always chaos.  It is because the growth in credit must continue or the system blows up (PONZI), because there is no core value (no fungible moneybase) a PONZI is required, not optional.

The PONZI is the core.

Of course, the system allows a segment of the population to live very well (banksters) and to exercise control over others.

But as has been reiterated above, this is all Voluntary.

The signature (fraudulent) to create the entire edifice is the Subjects.

Who requests the credit card agreement every single time you swipe?  !!!!!!

Who continues to use the dollar? !!!!!!

CON-venience?  !!!!!!

It is also the case that FORCE has alot to do with it.

But at the end the exponential nature of the PONZI destroys it.

That is when smoke and mirrors begin to be used by the Parasites in full measure.

The dollar is an instrument of war.  But prepare for a hot war, not on Iran, but on you.

I do not suggest violence, I suggest self extraction.

This system is you, so know it and learn its lessons, they are many.

Back away and help yourself and others who are interested in learning how to be in balance.  PONZI is the antithesis of balance, but it is part of the whole.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:00 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I do not suggest violence, I suggest self extraction.

I agree.  Don't participate in the destruction of others.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 13:18 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

bring it brother

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:32 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

theprofromdover,

You created the money (credit) with your signature.  The bank can't lend it's own credit.  Matter of fact it would be illegal to do so, how about those apples. 

The bank doesn't have a big pile of Federal Reserves Notes sitting there, and then when you ask for a loan they give you those FRN.   They take the mortgage note put it in a checking account in your name, write a check against YOUR acccount, give you the other party the check and then claim they gave you loan, which is nonsense.  It would be illegal for the bank to lend you their credit and no they don't have a big pile of legal tender sitting there. 

It's an exchange really.  No loan. The wonderful world of accounting. 

As a loan was never funded, nor were funds ever lent, under the “Mortgage documents” how may one demand of another that which does not exist?

OH MY!

"What is Money?
If money is viewed simply as a tool used to facilitate transactions, only those media that are readily accepted in exchange for goods, services, and other assets need to be considered. Many things - from stones to baseball cards - have served this monetary function through the ages. Today, in the United States, money used in transactions is mainly of three kinds - currency (paper money and coins in the pockets and purses of the public); demand deposits (non-interest bearing checking accounts in banks); and other checkable deposits, such as negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts, at all depository institutions, including commercial and savings banks, savings and loan associations, and credit unions......" - Modern Money Mechanics

ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE THE HELICOPTERS.   YOU STOPPED FLYING IN 2007.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:34 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Mako,

Thank you for being spot on target with this discussion in this thread.  I know by the discussion and responses that many people are having this realization for the first time.  I also know that many people (who do not post) are seeing this cogent dialogue and being exposed to the "correct" line of logic for the first time.

There are several series on YouTube namely Money as Debt (series I and II) that are in line with this line of logic and information.

There are many points upon which we have differences but services like this are priceless.

There is A Spoon!  But you made it up!  So live with it!

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:05 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

The spoon is the loan, it never existed.  It's simple accounting that created the so called money, the money changers did an exchange and not a loan. 

Oh, I agree, chaos will be created once everything collapses.

Humans have been fighting a war they can't possible win.

I laugh when all these people are talking about robosigner-gate, its only the tip of the iceberg. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:37 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

they facilitated an exchange, yes.

way to K-I-S-S mako...good stuff.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:08 | Link to Comment Mako
Mako's picture

Correct.  They might even claim you have benefited, which may be true but they can't convert a failure to perform on an obligation into equity relief for damages without showing a damage under Law.

The problem is, just like these people are figuring about missing paper, they will figure out what is in the paperwork even if the bank finds it all.

If I were a banker, I would be burning everything up, the problem is that is fraud as well because most of this stuff was sold off.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Bay Trader
Bay Trader's picture

Nice to have you back Mako and, as evidenced by your less hostile and more explanatory nature, it seems you have turned over a new leaf.

I have always enjoyed your posts but this is the first time I can remember you going to lengths to explain to people the insidious nature of debt money. Sometimes I wonder as I explain to friends and family the truth behind our monetary system if they were better off living a lie.

"Only individuals seek the truth, and they shun those whose sole concern is not the truth" - Boris Pasternak

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The bank paid using depositor's money.

Nobody creates money out of thin air except the federal government. In other words all money is backed by debt, except for gold and silver money.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:30 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ignore them?

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:46 | Link to Comment Clancy
Clancy's picture

It's easy as pie to punish a corporation.  Revoke their charter and they cease to exist.

The original language of corporate charters stipulates that they operate in the public interest.  Demonstrating they are destructive to that end is cause enough to revoke their right to incorporation.

 

All that's required is the political will to do so.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 02:55 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Easy as pie? You must lose a few fingers when you cook your pies.

Public interest, what is that? Mind to define it?

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 04:25 | Link to Comment Clancy
Clancy's picture

Would you buy "legally uncomplicated?"

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 03:00 | Link to Comment fuu
fuu's picture

I have always found this to be a good case as well.

 

http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/CreditRiver/1968-12-09judgmentanddecree.pdf

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

Ha, I live near there.   Is this still a good case for precedent in the courts?

 

I just don't see this being implemented on a mass scale, no matter legal precedent.   It's just too big to fail.  CONgress is going to side with who?

 

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:04 | Link to Comment koaj
koaj's picture

i think people need to learn who Jerome Daly was and why he was the most important man in American History of the last 100 years next to Judge Martin V Mahoney

 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:51 | Link to Comment boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

PROPERTY RIGHTS thats the key

In a perfect socialist state there is no individual property rights

Where there are no property rights there is no freedom

We all work for big brother and the holding company and live in "company' houses

Tennesse Ernie -- where are you now

"ST Peter don't you call me cause I can't gooooo

I owe my soul to the company store"

 

 

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:08 | Link to Comment Everyman
Everyman's picture

Love it.  I have been blogging and on message boards EVERYWHERE to get out the "Gospel of Karl" on this foreclosure gate.  The quote of "Frank-Dodd has resolution authority, let's use it".

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:46 | Link to Comment detersbb
detersbb's picture

I have heard reference to the Frank-Dodd resolution multiple times now.  Could you expain it or post a link that explains it.  I really am interested in this.

 

Thank you for your time.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:31 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The ability to break/dissolve banks which threaten the system.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:33 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I salute you, E-Man.  This is quite a story. A veritable black swan with profound consequences as it crunches forward.  I see the next FAIL as title companies who routinely accept payoff notices from the mortgage holder of record now demand proof they are paying off the right party in order to discharge the first lien.  Resales of homes (let along foreclosure sales) may come to a screeching halt for those homes where the mortgage is held by a private MBS bucket, as the title company is unsure whether the it can assume the first lien is properly paid off, and absent proof it is paying off the right party, simply refuses to do so.

Now, as suggested in this article, all those defective MBSs are in those CDOs in addition to the AAA rated tranches Wall Street pawned off jsut a few years ago, and then think about all those credit default swaps and other derivatives piled on top of those. 

Bye-bye.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:08 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Ratigan is the only MSM person who has been consistently and mercilessly on the GFC bullshit.  Thank god it's getting out there.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:56 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

CNBC is wiping their brow that Ratigan is gone!  No way he could follow some of the stories he has presented on his old network.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:22 | Link to Comment johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Too bad the combined viewership of the two networks is below some infomercial channels and The Cartoon Network on a good day when these stories come out. So far this is just inside baseball. Down here the masses are infuriated. The incidents in Punta Gorda and Orlando along with new fears of massive fraud in the Sarasota County and Lee County rocket dockets by the lawyers processing the foreclosures has the worst fears of everyone coming to the surface. Just think of the implications if 50% of the submitted documentation was forged, fraudulent, or a misrpresentation by a bankster without legal authority to process or file.

Florida is bleeped.

We still have over 507,000 pending foreclosures in the court system, some dating back to 2007. At the pace we are going, this will not be cleared up for 15 years or longer.

 

Edit to add: And good job by Karl. Someone has to get the word out and focus on the securitization fraud every day that we can. Otherwise the belief that these pension funds are solvent will carry forward until the government simply seizes them and asks the Fed to monetize everything they contain.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:15 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Jon Stewart just ramped this thing up a thousand fold this evening on The Daily Show.

He was not his usual ebullient self -- seemed rather somber.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 03:15 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

It was on Beck as well, along with a ZH plug for the insider trading article.  Now, if only we can get all these people to stick to it.

8:08 for ZH - http://video.foxnews.com/v/4363329/beck-12-signs-economy-may-tank/

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 06:34 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Wow! Beck covered it without any disinformation (well ... other than that he didn't mention that the Fabians are only tools). He didn't name names, but at least he didn't name wrong [patsy] names (eg. Sunstein).

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Krugman wants Q.E.2 & also does not see anything positive on the horizon regarding jobs. The other fuckhead starts to speak, I agree with paul bla bla bla .... I had to shut it down ...

We have been in a rut for years, this jobs thing has been covered up by easy credit/debt for years. The great wealth we had/thought we had was all smoke and mirrors and credit. Most people leveraged there income to live just a little bit better, new cars,tv, trips, second home, boat, fake tits, new clothes every year,golf ect....

Credit exploded as we shipped jobs overseas the last 28 years.

We need to builds thing in the u.s.a., trades, fuck globalization.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Entremanure
Entremanure's picture

You had me at "fake tits"...

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Sorry ... :-)

Thats the next thing I thought of ... But you must admit, they really took off in the last 15 years, botox, lipo ... yikes!

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:38 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Caller:  I don't know!  I just know that they kicked the door in to my home.

911:  Are you a criminal?  Were you expecting law enforcement?

Caller:  No!  I am a grandmother for Pete's sake.

911:  Is everyone ok?

Caller:  My grandchildren and I are fine, but the intruders...they don't look so good.

911:  Why is that, Ma'am?  What is wrong?

Caller:  I shot them both, maybe a half dozen times, in the chest and face with buck shot.  I...I...I had to stop them.  I thought that death or serious bodily injury to me and my grandchildren was imminent.

911:  Can you attempt first aid?

Caller:  No.  Oh my goodness!  One doesn't have a face anymore.  What a terrible mess.

___________________________________________________________________________

Another job saved, or created, in the new economy: Bank Foreclosure Agent

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:45 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

How do I short this new business model?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 05:48 | Link to Comment Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Never, ever take on debt.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:37 | Link to Comment alpha60
alpha60's picture

new?

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:10 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Is this an actual transcript?  If yes that is one solid granny.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 03:21 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Not actual Transcript.

Sometimes the bank fucks up - sends the locks smith before the REO agent and then this happens, but not very often. What should happen is the REO agent that is assigned the property (to offer cash-for-keys) (1) goes to the property to determine occupancy (a) looks at the water and electric meters to see if they are moving, (b) ask the neighbors if they've seen any comings or goings of previous occupants (c) tries to peer into windows to see if any personal property is inside and then make a best judgement at that time. If occupancy is questionable, the REO agent is to post a notice on the door and return the next day to see if the notice has been removed - if removed, someone is probably in the property. If the notice has not been removed and electrical/water meters are not moving AND no personal property is inside as viewed from the outside, AND the neighbors have no info on the subject property, the REO agent moves ahead in contacting the locksmith to open up the doors.

In this ONE cited incident, things got screwed up and procedures were not followed.

At the risk of being junked, I offer the above.

But consider this. If it wasn't the bank that was the creditor but YOU as a direct lender - would you be so lenient in consideration for the borrower? If it was your savings at stake, would you be calling for the razing of the bank building?

Since the bank bailouts, we are all the lenders of last resort - when the banks fail, the tax payer will foot the bill.

It's a two way street that we're all getting screwed on.

Ending The Fed will take care of a lot of money problems.

Shooting a locksmith when both homeowner and bank are wrong could land a homeowner in deep bandini. And times being what they are, cool heads are rare. Get a dog (many available at the pound since previous home owners now are in apartments and had to give up their hounds) to sound the alarm and let locksmiths and REO agents someone is still in the property AND if its really someone breaking in, the dog will usually scare them off until occupancy is better determined.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I've been both a borrower and a lender and both should obey the law. If there were no bullshit loans, and no bullshit foreclosures none of this would have happened.

Cut the crap and the problem goes away. The trouble is this crap has gone on so long, and gone so far, it will take down most of the banks in the country. So be it.

At this point your only choice is to burn the banks or burn the constitution.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:14 | Link to Comment Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

The sad thing is, the grandmother would probably be charged with excessive use of force and sent to prison :(

 

If i'm home when some joker comes over to "change out the locks on my doors", my fate will be the same.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:16 | Link to Comment Steak
Steak's picture

the word is indeed getting out.  i was pumped about the pocket veto but then heard they're gonna just pass another bill at some point in the future.  i have a bad feeling congress will try and bury this at some point.  sucks we're not even at the middle of the beginning yet.

so what to do about this wall of suck descending upon us?

meh. (a playlist): http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=48CE3C94FAB01826

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment rocker
rocker's picture

"so what to do about this wall of suck descending upon us?"   That should be pretty simple to figure out. How it's done.

The FED will monetize all the Bank's garbage. The set up is soon complete. The rest might get help, or maybe not.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:40 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

psst, rocker, it's already monetized bub.   see mako above.    it was as soon as you signed the note.  

dollars = debt = dollars = debt

can i pay you tuesday for a hamburger today?

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:15 | Link to Comment QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

 

Shortcuts = FRAUD

 

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:16 | Link to Comment williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The Tea is a case study in schizophrenia.

Ratigan does a great job of communicating the big picture!

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:49 | Link to Comment Clancy
Clancy's picture

The Tea Party really really needs a strong leader.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 09:09 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

The Tea Party needs a new leader who is not imposed.

The Tea Party needs a new leader who is not annointed by the corrupt MSM.

The Tea Party needs a new leader who is not captured.

The Tea Party needs a new leader who will end the Fed.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

That "new leader" should be Rep. Ron Paul.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 01:23 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I like and admire Rep. Ron Paul.  His lack of charisma might explain why he's still breathing. 

To remain effective, he needs to

  • avoid flying [Sen. Paul Wellstone, JFK Jr., Gov. Mel Carnahan, Beverly Eckert ]
  • avoid the DC Metro [Maj. Gen. David F. Wherley Jr. and his wife, Ann]
  • avoid quiet nights, home alone [Deborah Jeane Palfrey, David Kellermann]
  • avoid bathing with electrical implements [Thomas Merton]
  • watch where all his food and drink comes from, etc.

His son on the other hand raises some questions that reflect badly on Paul senior.  Like why is he so gung-ho for the GWOT??  Winning as a sell-out is not winning.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 03:08 | Link to Comment Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

What about George Washington for new Tea Party leader!?!?!

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Denninger has great points at times and I'm glad he's making noise. But his ego is a major obstacle. Plus have you ever heard him on a long-format show like radio? Dude never shuts up and always is interrupting the interviewer.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:39 | Link to Comment FoodTiger
FoodTiger's picture

I've enjoyed reading Karl's blog, but was disappointed after he banned this guy from his site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr0gNJ090JA

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

This format suited him well. 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 04:11 | Link to Comment Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

I used to visit Market-ticker forums frequently until several months ago when I read several very disconcerting rants from Karl ("Genesis") to those who held a different view regarding the topic at hand.

Karl outright bans or threatens banning nearly everyone who disagrees with him, particularly on the gold topics. He has provided a Metals Forum where all conversations regarding gold are limited and being banned from tTF will result if one even dares to bring up gold in another forum. The rules are extremely rigid.

I'm aware that Karl feels very deeply about the various topics he presents, however, I tend to stear clear of people who communicate with frequent use of ALL CAPS, bold text, underlining, italics, and combinations thereof.

Also witnessed on Ticker Forum: the posters who are rude to other posters tend to be female and have been bestowed a little American flag beneath their avatar.

Sorry Karl, but you failed to drain the swamp completely.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:41 | Link to Comment alpha60
alpha60's picture

everybody has their issues, and karl has a bit of a god-syndrom. but he is on the right team. get some thicker skin, and a second email account.

Sat, 10/09/2010 - 02:10 | Link to Comment Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Have you seen the drop-off of posters on Ticker threads?

Apparently I'm not the only one tired of the rants and command and control atmosphere.

And I have a pretty tough skin - I have survived and won many internet battles.

Karl's site is nothing new regarding rude posters, however why deal with the poster abuse and the rants and the authoritarianism?

Further, if KD is a founder of the Tea Party, then that doesn't say much for the TP.

~Misstrial

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:42 | Link to Comment alpha60
alpha60's picture

everybody has their issues, and karl has a bit of the god-syndrom. but he is on the right team. get some thicker skin, and a second email account.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:17 | Link to Comment FischerBlack
FischerBlack's picture

Nice one, Karl. If only we were able to keep America's eyes from glazing over while you were talking. The whole situation is outrageous.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:05 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

It's a complex subject with some really boring aspects.  WE are interested and it's boring.  Can you imagine the average person who doesn't even know what a CDO is?  He did very well on the given occasion with Ratigan.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

9 out of 10 of my friends don't know what CDO is or CDS stands for.

8 do not know what an SDR is or who the IMF is, They don't know what building 7 is or what STFU means, 6 don't  know what HFT means or MSM.  5 have never heard of arbitrage, carry trade or currency manipulation.  Only one new who Tyler Durden is and no one new Marla Singer.  I don't know why I typed this.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:16 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Anecdotal evidence is always the best.  You are saying that folks don't know.

I'm reminded of the child who covers his head with a blanket when frightened:  Ineffective but comforting.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:15 | Link to Comment Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"I'm reminded of the child who covers his head with a blanket when frightened:  Ineffective but comforting"

 

I'm partial to fort's.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:49 | Link to Comment Glass Steagall
Glass Steagall's picture
Hey DD,   As lonely as that sounds, and it does, I no longer feel as alone reading ur post. Thanks, man.
Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:57 | Link to Comment woolly mammoth
woolly mammoth's picture

Dapper Dan, compared to the folks I communicate with you run with a pretty sharp crowd. I had a customer just last week tell me the economy has turned around and things where going to get better. I'm like "okay" you really think so. And she did. It's been over a year since I've tried talking about these issues to anyone. They just don't want to know. Maybe something to do with HAARP. Maybe thats why my ears are always ringing. Any way, when this banker built starship starts flying apart they'll be the bodys you always see floating off into space. Must be getting late.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 02:03 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

i am so proud, damn i nu (knew) all of them. ROLFMAYO  on cheese

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:24 | Link to Comment Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

he's media schizoid...

It's either "stop the assrape!!!" or "the cure-rate on these instruments can not be solved by securitization"

He should speak more like he writes when "explaining" the Market to Joe 6pack.

That was Dylan Ratigan fer chrissakes not Louis Rukeyser 

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 08:38 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Perfect characterization.  He's a "beautiful mind" who has done and continues to do GREAT WORK for mankind, but Ratigan almost had to work around him on this show.

The important thing is that people continue to hammer away at it--including those two guys, both of whom have led the way, each in their own venue. 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:19 | Link to Comment bigelkhorn
bigelkhorn's picture

Have a look at this FREE report below that was released a few days ago. A banking insider / whistleblower spills the beans and exposes what the banking elite have in store for us. This is down right scary!!!

http://www.forecastfortomorrow.com/files/bank_insider_US-Collapse.pdf

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:41 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

shiver me timbers!

imagine that, no banks!

what would we do then?

have to trust each other?

oh my!

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:43 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

JUNK or Bad theater/advertising.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:44 | Link to Comment TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture

We can't have proof that this "Joe" is really who he says he is, and that the recording is true.

But the predictions he says are damnly realistic. So maybe false, but in this case it is a good forger.

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 07:30 | Link to Comment RECISION
RECISION's picture

Agreed Ms,

That is the sorriest piece of self promotion I have seen in a while. 

Its not even well written...

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:13 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Just a snippet from the document:

They keep hinting that it will change so much and we will see so many changes, that it will not be as meaningful as it is today. If the market does exist, it will change a lot and be much stricter. They know that the government are covering up how much manipulation and thievery goes on at the exchanges each day. And they do not want us to know about this.
Many companies that people once thought were solid are doing illegal accounting and fraud and other things. Think about how many companies have been exposed in the last 18 months. There will be many more to come. This also includes those agencies that oversee these activities. Many shakeups coming were what they were saying. The markets, when all said and done, will greatly change as they are not reality based. The games and efforts to continue the financial cover-ups just cannot continue.
The good thing about all of this crashing. The corrupt cannot continue the game much longer, as reality does not support it. Once things get worse, and they will get much worse according to these guys, in the financial and economic sector, everything will have to be adjusted, revamped and corrected. A good day will no longer be based on the faulty or moody stockmarkets, if that makes sense. Things will recover but it will take sometime.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Just don't ask him about Islam.  Bring it on, the times square scare (pussy) made him call for genocide, now we have a non murderer locked up for life for apparently "scaring people".  I saw the bomb.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Mitchman
Mitchman's picture

Lots of luck getting the DoJ to follow up on this...

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

I wish Obama would finally get around to appointing an AG.  That post has been vacant for almost two years.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:44 | Link to Comment FischerBlack
FischerBlack's picture

Eric Holder?

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:47 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Place Holder!

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:55 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Bump, set, and spike!

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 23:33 | Link to Comment Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Cup Holder

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 00:03 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Holding Company

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:40 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

You said it. This will be solved politically not legally unless of course we include riots

Fri, 10/08/2010 - 01:56 | Link to Comment Glass Steagall
Glass Steagall's picture
Wonder if the Anarchist Party could get hi-jacked if they got popular?
Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:41 | Link to Comment FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

This will get dropped faster than the New Black Panther's case.

Great job Karl!  Just stay out of your hot tub after a Dylan Ratigan Show appearance.

 

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:29 | Link to Comment Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Denninger sounds like a damn tax accountant. Sure he has a valid point about the fraud, but it gets lost in his leagal mumbo-jumbo. The host had to interrupt and translate for the masses. KD needs to hire a public speaking coach if he expects anyone outside his fan club to listen to his rants.

Thu, 10/07/2010 - 22:30 | Link to Comment Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

This.

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