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Keynes Vs Hayek: The Sequel
Just over a year ago, Econstories managed to successfully, if briefly, fuse the worlds of rap and monetary policy in the form of "Fear the boom and bust" - a Keynes vs Hayek rap anthem. And now, when with every passing day the shamanism of Keynesian voodoo is exposed for all too see, courtesy of the tide of endless credit and free money finally flowing out, we get the sequel. Enjoy.
Sequel:
Original:
h/t NihilarianZH
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Pretense of Knowledge, Bernank Bitchez!!
This is how it goes in THE REAL WOLRD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgFlJjnULh0&playnext=1&list=PL5D0B547568B...
It's not as entertaining, certainly. But who can dispute the facts?
Hayek, bitchez!!
Chomsky is a chump and a Commie. Let those guys run the economy and its goodbye prosperity and freedom. Get a friggin' clue.
You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE.
You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE.
You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE.
You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE.
You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE.
awesome...thanks..very funny
I like this as much as the next guy but isnt this just more hegelian dialectical stuff? Since neither camps address usury, neither camps address the root causes. In other words, neither camp dethrones the current aristocracy.
"current aristocracy", It's not, its a global dictatorship, we are give the illusion of choice, while limited choices are provided. Who to blame, who to hate, who to trust, at the end of the day your only truly free to decide whether your a walking zombie slave or dead.
We are just monkeys( http://www.difrances.com/monkey.htm ) in a cage, conditioned to accept the paradigm.
"Those who own the country ought to govern it." ~ John Jay
Source: http://www.bartleby.com/73/764.html
Madisonian "democracy:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvIWxh2yRs
James Madison, the father and the main framer of the constitution:
"The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge the wants or feelings of the day-laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe, — when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.
- Statement (1787-06-26) as quoted in Notes of the Secret Debates of the Federal Convention of 1787 by Robert Yates.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Hf8ZdYMBLuQC&pg=PA170&dq=The+man+who+is...Do you know how many times Chomsky has uttered the phrase "western hegemony"? Thousands. Do you know how many times Chomsky has uttered the phrase "Jewish hegemony"? None.
This is exactly the aristocracy that prospers from usury. And this is the aristocracy that neither Keyens nor Hayek challenge.
You are obviously not familiar with his works, he criticizes Israel all the time.
Not sure I get your drift. Are you saying that Jews rule the world and U.S??
I'm simply saying that there is an enormous hegemonic influence stemming from the Jewish tribe that is entirely seperate from what any reasonable person would identify as "western". Any research conducted into the matter that fails to discover or mention such influence is disingenuous. What I am saying is that Chomsky's professionalism is subordinate to his race loyalty - further, although he is a critic of Israeli policy, he is an ardent Zionist.
Which is interesting when you consider it in context. On the one hand he suggests that the Western world throw their borders open and admit hordes of hostile invaders while at the same time he supports a racially cohesive and nationalistic Jewish homeland.
"he is an ardent Zionist"
You are uninformed, one of the major reasons why he left Israel after initially moving there is his anti Zionist views.
"while at the same time he supports a racially cohesive and nationalistic Jewish homeland." please cite or provide some EVIDENCE!
May be you can find it in his book, Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians.
http://www.amazon.com/Fateful-Triangle-Palestinians-Updated-Classics/dp/...
If you support a two state solution, you are a zionist.
Usury? Please get out of the middle ages. Interest occurs because money is worth more in the present than in the future.
No it isnt. Thats just a ridiculous canard drilled into your head by the usurers.
FYI the concept of interest predates written history and thus is no product of "the userers" and more of a natural law of economics.How could future money, due to the uncertaintyinherent in its title, possibly be of the same worth of money in your hand? This is analogous to that age old tidbit of wisdom "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".
This is a chicken egg scenario and you have the cause effect reversed. Money is worth more today than tomorrow because of the inherent inflationary effects of interest. No interest, no inflation, the value of money will stabilize through time - that is the closest you are gonna get to utopia. No tyrannts, no malinvestment, just pure free trade minus usury.
There is a Quantum Mechanical event which, when delayed, the particle must return energy with interest. Possibly matters' dominance over anti-matter. Does this mean (like an expanding Central Bank balance sheet) that the Cosmos has a disposition toward "interest", that equilibrium comes through expansion of lopsidedness???
Kaon Particle CP Violation: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/cpt.html#c4
bald white guy rap
love it
uh, pretty sure there weren't any black judges pre 1942
ODIN!!!
Of course there were! Hell, there were black congressmen in the 1870s!
Macon B. Allen, the first African-American acknowledged to have gained admission to a state bar when he passed the examination for the Maine bar in 1844.1Allen learned the law as almost all aspiring lawyers did in this period: he read it in the office of a beneficent private attorney while working as this attorney's clerk. A year later, Allen would later gain admission to the Massachusetts bar.2 Three years after Allen entered the Maine bar, the Governor of Massachusetts appointed him a justice of the peace, making Allen the first African-American to serve in any judicial capacity.3 Robert Morrisbecame the second African-American lawyer in the country4, and, in 1852, he became the second African-American judge when the Governor of Massachusetts appointed him to a county magistrate position, a more formal judicial position than justice of the peace.
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1852
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this is great
You really don't understand Keynes...How many of you have read Keynes before making such statements...
Keynes is like Marx, he's constantly being "misunderstood" according to his followers.... problem is, garbage in, garbage out, and Keynesian economics is garbage.
Yep, disturbing stuff like this
Makes "Das Kapital" look like the friggin' Declaration of Independence....
but...
John Maynard Keynes:
"In the long run we are all dead. "
&
"The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that carries any reward."
-
Keynes was good for a pithy phrase or two.... he was the Larry Kudlow of the Low, Dishonest Decade... sometimes right on a specific level, but missing the big picture entirely.
Yes, and we have the pyramids still, as the byproduct of ancient workers off-season employment by central planning. It was never about eternal life for the pharoah and his squeeze, it was an FDR-like centrally planned jobs program! Sure you may say that the Net Present Value of the project was negative at the time, or that the long run caught up with those workers a lot faster because of their labor on behalf of the man, but I say to that Neee!
Keynes' private financial actions were often the opposite of his public advice. In short, the man was a master at manipulating key figures in the ruling elites. He traveled the world, partied hearty, dispensed economic wisdom/advice, and had a gay ol’ time doing it.
The serious side of Keynes is the towering genius, and his tome on economics stands the test of time. Great stuff for gaining a foundation, just know that he is laughing from the grave at fools that even today repeat the mistakes of the past.
"Modern" macroeconomics' predictive power is sorely lacking. Hayek was the towering genius, Keynes was the man who failed to see the forest for the trees.
Oh and for a foundation, Samuelson's early editions are pretty good.
I agree. But then you knew I would.
Keynes was a twisted smart guy who cashed in by providing useful bullshit to the ruling class.
Read Rothbard's "Keynes the Man".
He was a bigoted, racist, anti semitic, war hungry sociopath, that has ruined civilisation.
Thanks for the reference.
That sounds like Trav7777!
You can read it online here:
http://mises.org/etexts/keynestheman.pdf
See also:
http://mises.org/daily/3845
Description & purchase info:
http://mises.org/store/Keynes-the-Man-P9348.aspx
The trouble with reading Keynes is his writing is nonsensical. Further, Keynes has absolutely no capital theory. Whenever he refers to capital, its like this mythical beast that appears from nothing.
Holy crap.
lol
silver is just cents away from it's recent high, fully retraced
If we could get Ben Bukkake to go on a Fed speaking tour we could get the shiny gray stuff up to $500 an ounce lickety split!
holy fucking shit.... I know the Hayek actor! its my friend's brother.
Please give the guy a BIG thank you from me!
just sent him FB message thanking him. If anybody has any other bright ideas about a future video and ill relay it to him.
Entertaining videos.
Not asking rhetorically: do you think they'll work in getting a message across (especially to younger people I'm guessing)? Or will they be viewed as light trivia?
I vote light trivia.
anayzing it should be part of the final exams at every macro-econ grad school in the country.
incredibly effective communication if nothing else.
Going down for the crown !
Wow, Hayek pwned Keynes big time.
Recessionize for Fun and Profit....
http://seenoevilspeaknoevilhearnoevil.blogspot.com/2011/04/recesionize-f...
It was funny seeing Say and Mises in the corners.
I don't know that most people would appreciate this unless they had studied some econ. But I think the history of econ and the almost religious-like fervor various theories have seemed to inspire over time is more interesting than the subject itself.
Don't believe the hype!
I'm continually having to describe myself as a "fan, not an acolyte" of the Austrian school of thought. Do I agree with the basic premises? Big time. Do I think it is the "be all and end all" of economic thought? No.
My favorite lyric from the video:
"The lesson I've learned is how little we know,
the world is complex, not some circular flow.
The economy is not a class you can master in college.
To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."
Yes, Say and Mises a sort of inside joke. But did you see who's in JMK's corner? Malthus, the dude's that's been wrong for over a century. Correction - not a century, make that 2.
Funny but...What goverment spending ?
Both fighters are crooked and deliberately miss their punches
The core of the problem is private debt creation on the back of a relatively small $14 trillion dollar base money.
There's too little money paying for private liabilties.
And thats pretty much it.
That's a major tenet of The Austrian School...savings are the driver, not debt. If you have no savings, you have no targeted investment; capital flows are skewed, mis-allocated. Money sloshes around and bad ideas/ventures use up as much capital as good ones.
Please refer to the "DENATIONALISATION OF MONEY" by Hayek which he wrote about in the 70s - this was a major influence on the creation of the Euro.
Hence the freegold mechanism and the limitation of goverment money production withen the euro area and free credit creation of private banks withen this new juristiction.
There aim is to cut the balls off hybrid sovergin states - pure and simple.
I had the understanding that the godfathers of the Euro were the European Federalists, Jean Monnet et. al. The Euro is a political project above all. NWO and all that jazz.....
The Euros structure corresponds to many of Hayek's beliefs about money - he was anti sovergin money and therefore against republicanism.
The creation of the EEC and the Euro are not entirely the same thing although closely related - the disposal of De Gaulle changed the power dynamic withen Europe permanently
The Euro is the great sovergin killer both withen Europe and of course the US.
Many unsophisticated bankers in Ireland , US and elsewhere cannot get their heads around the Euro as they traditionally fractionally multiplied a sovergin money base - there is not enough sovergin money in the euro zone to pay all the debts incurred by private credit hence the rise in Gold as that is the only other mechanism on the Euro balance sheet to clear the debts.
"Opposition to new system from established bankers...........
This necessity of all banks to develop wholly new practices
will undoubtedly be the cause of strong opposition to the
abolition of the government monopoly. It is unlikely that most
of the older bankers, brought up in the prevailing routine of
banking, will be capable of coping with those problems. I am
certain that many of the present leaders of the profession will
not be able to conceive how it could possibly work and therefore
will describe the whole system as impracticable and impossible.
Especially in countries where competition among banks
has for generations been restricted by cartel arrangements,
usually tolerated and even encouraged by governments, the
older generation of bankers would probably be completely
unable even to imagine how the new system would operate and
therefore be practically unanimous in rejecting it. But this
foreseeable opposition of the established practitioners ought not
to deter us. I am also convinced that if a new generation of
young bankers were given the opportunity they would rapidly
develop techniques to make the new forms of banking not only
safe and profitable but also much more beneficial to the whole
community than the existing one."
Hayek
I have to get my son's high school economics teacher to show these in class. She did show them "Inside Job" and she still has her job so maybe there is hope.
I have showed the "Fear the Boom and the Bust" to all of my Grade 12 Social Studies classes. They will be watching 'round 2' today.
viva la revolution!
Thank you, my friend.
Nice try, we're still appropriating your pension to pay for our beloved bankers' bonuses and taking away your right to collective bargaining so we can further concentrate power into fewer and fewer hands.
Signed,
Your Plutocrats
dumb logic is at the core of modern economic theory.
very creative video. these are well presented and understandable. still no new plans for us. just pointing out history.
long term mandate bullshit bernanke.
holy fuck
Funny ... except I don't think keynes would have been hanging with those hotties... if you know what i mean....
Yeah, who does he think he is -- Roubini? ;-)
Whew, in the nick of time... a dichotomy to make the wager simple. ATT/Verizon, Fedex/UPS, Keynes/Hayek? Hmmmm... I choose...ummmm... Pepsi. Dave Harrison www.tradewithdave.com
yeah, great allegory.... the media darling and the people's hero. But still I say end the F ING FED.
There actually is shamanism in Keynesianism, specially with the monetarist keynesianism. Still, Hayek is no holy grail either. Just another very fundamentalist, very much (although he would never have admitted it) a numerologist stuck with the numbers and very little of what's real behind them. I can still remember Hayek's words about Limits to Growth. Anybody who believes in perpetual growth is no better than the monetarist keynesians of today.
with a GDP print today of 1.8 and continued high unemployment after trillions in QE and TARP is there anyone on ZH who still thinks
Keynesian BS has any legitimacy left?? if so state your case. and good luck.
Hayek doesn't have the answer to everything, but he's a hell of a lot better than the Krugmans, the Friedmans, and the other charlatan wankers out there saying, "no inflation no inflation". It's just like how Thomas Jefferson was a philandering slaveholder, but an intellectual and political giant of his age.
When I read the title, I was hoping for Salma Hayek. I was greatly disappointed.
So was I. Hey Robo- help us out.
My video is almost as good
http://www.video.me/ViewVideo.aspx?vid=409832
You say that like the ability of sovereigns to loot the people via inflation is a good thing. Of course, Hayek was against central banking, so you can hardly claim the ECB is his idea.
Genius. Really well done video.
+48.99; how about the round 3 girl, yum
Great video. Should be shown in schools
another great one
Amen Amen Amen AMEN!
Last century’s famous economist Henry Hazlitt showed again and again that Keynes pronounced his theories ex cathedra, without substantial statistics to back them up. Then, if actual statistics were produced that seemed to show results opposite to what his theories had predicted, he simply challenged the statistics.
Chairman Bernanke, it develops, is Keynes reincarnated. His analysis of the economy and its future is statistical cherry picking in the finest tradition of Fabian Socialism.
First, like Keynes, Bernanke brings up his “among other factors” menu. As jplotinus said yesterday, “Those words were used to describe higher gas and food prices.” Then he selects the appropriate factors promising “easing” where needed and eliminates factors outside his concerns, such as gas prices.
Dr. No effectively analyses the Bernanke propaganda: “The Bernak answers gas prices are a function of supply and demand and the FED has little control. Several questions later, he states QE2 is working since they saw an increase in stock prices. Interesting how supply and demand are selective in what price they choose to control.”
One could almost hear Keynes applauding yesterday in the great beyond ”Word Cloud.” But let’s be fair to our famous Fabian; Bernanke will never achieve his ethereal heights in economic make believe.
Even the progressives are unhappy with Ben’s projection of 7% unemployment in 2014. A 7% unemployment, they say, is hardly comforting in light of the fact that Ben, the banker’s banker, is going to take care first - come what may - of the financial sector.
As long as anyone or anything is saved from itself and failure by someone else we all fail.
stupendo !!
So lets see if an idiot like me got the just of the video. At least the historical path we traverse:
Push as many of the middle class as we can back under the poverty level. Keep subsidizing entitlement because the government can't create jobs. When this is unsustainable, start a world war and we get full employment, and at the same time a decrease in population. Prosperity to the military machine and its cogs, banks and Wall Street, which makes the country prosper, while the populous suffers shortages and rations in the name of patriotism.
Rinse and repeat.
Did I hear this right? Or am I a loon?
Both options are possible.
You heard it right, and you aren't a loon. +100
Wow! The guys who made this video are pros!
Much thanks to whoever went to all that effort.
Great work.
Great vid. Better than genuine MTV crap. And of course, Keynes's arguments are all immoral. But since neither addresses the role of the State in allowing market distortions one way or the other, its ultimately a pissing contest.