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Keynes Vs Hayek: The Sequel

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Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:29 | 1215515 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Pretense of Knowledge, Bernank Bitchez!!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:48 | 1216202 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

This is how it goes in THE REAL WOLRD: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgFlJjnULh0&playnext=1&list=PL5D0B547568B...

It's not as entertaining, certainly. But who can dispute the facts?

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:57 | 1216274 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

Hayek, bitchez!!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:13 | 1216371 Oppressed In Ca...
Oppressed In California's picture

Chomsky is a chump and a Commie.  Let those guys run the economy and its goodbye prosperity and freedom.  Get a friggin' clue.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 10:55 | 1220438 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE. 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 10:55 | 1220440 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE. 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 10:55 | 1220441 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE. 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:00 | 1220458 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE. 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 11:00 | 1220476 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are a brainwashed tool. It is obvious that you have never read anything Chomsky wrote or heard his talks. If you can back up your claims with some EVIDENCE. 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:29 | 1215519 The Axe
The Axe's picture

awesome...thanks..very funny

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:39 | 1215559 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

I like this as much as the next guy but isnt this just more hegelian dialectical stuff?  Since neither camps address usury, neither camps address the root causes.  In other words, neither camp dethrones the current aristocracy.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:44 | 1216193 solidsteele
solidsteele's picture

"current aristocracy", It's not, its a global dictatorship, we are give the illusion of choice, while limited choices are provided. Who to blame, who to hate, who to trust, at the end of the day your only truly free to decide whether your a walking zombie slave or dead.

We are just monkeys( http://www.difrances.com/monkey.htm ) in a cage, conditioned to accept the paradigm.

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:03 | 1216250 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

"Those who own the country ought to govern it." ~ John Jay

Source: http://www.bartleby.com/73/764.html

Madisonian "democracy:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvIWxh2yRs

James Madison, the father and the main framer of the constitution:

"The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge the wants or feelings of the day-laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe, — when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=Hf8ZdYMBLuQC&pg=PA170&dq=The+man+who+is...

 

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:01 | 1216299 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

Do you know how many times Chomsky has uttered the phrase "western hegemony"?  Thousands.  Do you know how many times Chomsky has uttered the phrase "Jewish hegemony"?  None. 

This is exactly the aristocracy that prospers from usury.  And this is the aristocracy that neither Keyens nor Hayek challenge.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:12 | 1216365 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

You are obviously not familiar with his works, he criticizes Israel all the time.

Not sure I get your drift. Are you saying that Jews rule the world and U.S??

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:45 | 1216444 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

I'm simply saying that there is an enormous hegemonic influence stemming from the Jewish tribe that is entirely seperate from what any reasonable person would identify as "western".  Any research conducted into the matter that fails to discover or mention such influence is disingenuous.  What I am saying is that Chomsky's professionalism is subordinate to his race loyalty - further, although he is a critic of Israeli policy, he is an ardent Zionist.

Which is interesting when you consider it in context.  On the one hand he suggests that the Western world throw their borders open and admit hordes of hostile invaders while at the same time he supports a racially cohesive and nationalistic Jewish homeland.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:58 | 1216633 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

"he is an ardent Zionist"

You are uninformed, one of the major reasons why he left Israel after initially moving there is his anti Zionist views.


Thu, 04/28/2011 - 13:01 | 1216648 shrpknvs
shrpknvs's picture

"while at the same time he supports a racially cohesive and nationalistic Jewish homeland." please cite or provide some EVIDENCE!

May be you can find it in his book, Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians.

http://www.amazon.com/Fateful-Triangle-Palestinians-Updated-Classics/dp/...

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 14:47 | 1217094 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

If you support a two state solution, you are a zionist.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 14:05 | 1216948 Phaderus
Phaderus's picture

Usury? Please get out of the middle ages. Interest occurs because money is worth more in the present than in the future.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 14:46 | 1217102 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

No it isnt.  Thats just a ridiculous canard drilled into your head by the usurers.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 16:35 | 1217623 ZFiNX
ZFiNX's picture

FYI the concept of interest predates written history and thus is no product of "the userers" and more of a natural law of economics.How could future money, due to the uncertaintyinherent in its title, possibly be of the same worth of money in your hand? This is analogous to that age old tidbit of wisdom "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 18:48 | 1218267 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

This is a chicken egg scenario and you have the cause effect reversed.  Money is worth more today than tomorrow because of the inherent inflationary effects of interest.  No interest, no inflation, the value of money will stabilize through time - that is the closest you are gonna get to utopia.  No tyrannts, no malinvestment, just pure free trade minus usury.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 02:07 | 1219348 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

There is a Quantum Mechanical event which, when delayed, the particle must return energy with interest. Possibly matters' dominance over anti-matter. Does this mean (like an expanding Central Bank balance sheet) that the Cosmos has a disposition toward "interest", that equilibrium comes through expansion of lopsidedness???

Kaon Particle CP Violation: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/cpt.html#c4

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:34 | 1215536 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

bald white guy rap

love it

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:36 | 1215538 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

uh, pretty sure there weren't any black judges pre 1942

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:37 | 1215555 Holodomor2012
Holodomor2012's picture

ODIN!!!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:14 | 1215713 CH1
CH1's picture

Of course there were! Hell, there were black congressmen in the 1870s!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:06 | 1215952 Muir
Muir's picture

Macon B. Allen, the first African-American acknowledged to have gained admission to a state bar when he passed the examination for the Maine bar in 1844.1Allen learned the law as almost all aspiring lawyers did in this period: he read it in the office of a beneficent private attorney while working as this attorney's clerk. A year later, Allen would later gain admission to the Massachusetts bar.2  Three years after Allen entered the Maine bar, the Governor of Massachusetts appointed him a justice of the peace, making Allen the first African-American to serve in any judicial capacity.3 Robert Morrisbecame the second African-American lawyer in the country4, and, in 1852, he became the second African-American judge when the Governor of Massachusetts appointed him to a county magistrate position, a more formal judicial position than justice of the peace.

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1852

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Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:37 | 1215548 oogs66
oogs66's picture

this is great

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:41 | 1215560 Zexe
Zexe's picture

You really don't understand Keynes...How many of you have read Keynes before making such statements...

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:41 | 1215576 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Keynes is like Marx, he's constantly being "misunderstood" according to his followers.... problem is, garbage in, garbage out, and Keynesian economics is garbage. 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:03 | 1215675 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Yep, disturbing stuff like this

When involuntary unemployment exists, the marginal disutility of labour is necessarily less than the utility of the marginal product. Indeed it may be much less. For a man who has been long unemployed some measure of labour, instead of involving disutility, may have a positive utility. If this is accepted, the above reasoning shows how “wasteful” loan expenditure[8] may nevertheless enrich the community on balance. Pyramid-building, earthquakes, even wars may serve to increase wealth, if the education of our statesmen on the principles of the classical economics stands in the way of anything better.

 

 

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:07 | 1215693 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Makes "Das Kapital" look like the friggin' Declaration of Independence....

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:19 | 1216024 Muir
Muir's picture

but...

John Maynard Keynes:

"In the long run we are all dead. "

&

"The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that carries any reward."

-

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:16 | 1216390 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Keynes was good for a pithy phrase or two.... he was the Larry Kudlow of the Low, Dishonest Decade... sometimes right on a specific level, but missing the big picture entirely.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 12:30 | 1216468 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yes, and we have the pyramids still, as the byproduct of ancient workers off-season employment by central planning.    It was never about eternal life for the pharoah and his squeeze, it was an FDR-like centrally planned jobs program!   Sure you may say that the Net Present Value of the project was negative at the time, or that the long run caught up with those workers a lot faster because of their labor on behalf of the man, but I say to that Neee!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:56 | 1215640 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Keynes' private financial actions were often the opposite of his public advice. In short, the man was a master at manipulating key figures in the ruling elites. He traveled the world, partied hearty, dispensed economic wisdom/advice, and had a gay ol’ time doing it.

The serious side of Keynes is the towering genius, and his tome on economics stands the test of time. Great stuff for gaining a foundation, just know that he is laughing from the grave at fools that even today repeat the mistakes of the past.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:07 | 1215684 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

"Modern" macroeconomics' predictive power is sorely lacking.  Hayek was the towering genius, Keynes was the man who failed to see the forest for the trees.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:11 | 1215701 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Oh and for a foundation, Samuelson's early editions are pretty good.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:44 | 1216172 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

I agree.  But then you knew I would.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:17 | 1215722 CH1
CH1's picture

Keynes was a twisted smart guy who cashed in by providing useful bullshit to the ruling class.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:56 | 1215653 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

Read Rothbard's "Keynes the Man".

He was a bigoted, racist, anti semitic, war hungry sociopath, that has ruined civilisation.

 

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 10:58 | 1215894 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Thanks for the reference.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:32 | 1216111 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"He was a bigoted, racist, anti semitic, war hungry sociopath, that has ruined civilisation."

That sounds like Trav7777!

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:41 | 1216164 JeffB
Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:38 | 1216155 MrPike
MrPike's picture

The trouble with reading Keynes is his writing is nonsensical.  Further, Keynes has absolutely no capital theory.  Whenever he refers to capital, its like this mythical beast that appears from nothing.  

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:40 | 1215567 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

Holy crap.

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 09:45 | 1215579 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

lol

silver is just cents away from it's recent high, fully retraced

Thu, 04/28/2011 - 11:46 | 1216186 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

If we could get Ben Bukkake to go on a Fed speaking tour we could get the shiny gray stuff up to $500 an ounce lickety split!

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