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Kitco Charged With Massive Tax Fraud Scheme, Business Viability In Question

Tyler Durden's picture


Life for the precious metals dealer, and home of the often times infamous Jon Nadler, Kitco just got very ugly. "Claiming widespread tax fraud in the gold refining and trading sector, Revenue Quebec and police investigators this week conducted searches and seizures at 70 locations, mostly in the Montreal area. One of the targeted sites was the downtown Montreal location of Kitco, a
major buyer and seller of gold. A note on the floor of its office on
Thursday said that “operational constraints” had forced the service
counter to close this week." It is unclear if this alleged tax fraud bust means Kitco could be out of business shortly, although based on the following statement it is somewhat difficult to have an optimistic outlook on the future employment prospects of said Mr. Nadler: "The company said it has asked Superior Court of Québec to appoint an
interim receiver so that it may continue normal operations under the
supervision of the accounting firm RSM Richter. The action was taken “to
allow for the time required to vigorously contest Revenu Québec’s
unfounded claims
." At the heart of the allegation: "In a communique, Revenue Quebec said that by converting pure gold into a
gold object and then refining it back into a pure state, some in the
gold industry had used “artificial transactions” to obtain refunds of
taxes that were never actually paid.
" Apparently Kitco was one of them. Oh well, we will miss the pretty charts.

From Financial Post:

No arrests were announced, but the tax department said Thursday it had reason to believe several people were involved in producing false invoices for a number of companies.

The company strongly denied any allegations in a statement Friday.

“Kitco Metals Inc. has never participated in any tax fraud, nor has it ever carried out any fictitious transactions. In all respects, Kitco vigorously contests all aspects of Revenu Québec’s investigation,” it said.

Revenue Quebec said two networks of companies and individuals were at the heart of a false-billing scheme that had cost the province more than $150 million in tax on almost $2 billion in transactions.

In addition to Kitco and Carmen International Inc., it said almost 125 other companies had been complicit in the scheme.

Instead of trafficking in invoiceless gold, perhaps Kitco should have just pulled a Goldman, opened a prop desk, and bought the stuff. Hopefully they learn from this mistake.


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Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:40 | 1357575 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

he he he

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:58 | 1357650 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

Jon Nadler...isn't that the fat liberal congressman from New York City?

He is another Weiner, just not as arrogant and vile.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:00 | 1357677 AnarchoCapitalist
AnarchoCapitalist's picture

I have had many email exchanges with Nadler. Trust me, he is very arrogant and also an idiot.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:56 | 1358129 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

But where will we get our current gold and silver price charts if goes away?

Damn, I hate when they do this to us.

I am Chumbawamba.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:08 | 1358169 tmosley
tmosley's picture is good.

What I am wondering is where will we be able to get historical prices?  I've used those to out trolls before.  Not having access to them will make future troll hunts (for certain types of trolls) harder.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:15 | 1358200 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

tmosley, you are an expert (and bull) on silver, no?

I really, really need an expert to write "The Case for Silver" at my blog.  NOT as a strawman article, but to prepare the ground for a gold vs. silver article.  Hey, I want to learn!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:04 | 1358537 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Is this Kitco crisis a possible domino?  I mean, they have a huge pool of unallocated gold and silver, isn't there going to be a run on that with this news, and a run on their allocated stores as well?  Have they leased or leased out huge amounts of precious metals to and/or from other bullion banks?  Will investor's be clamouring to get their physical out of Kitco, and as Avery Goodman said, if the fractional precious metals system is levered 100:1 paper to physical, for every one ounce of physical that is withdrawn, how many paper ounces does that affect?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:18 | 1362186 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

you bring up a superbly salient point.  i am inclined to agree with you though i bring precious little pm experience to the table.  however i am liking our chances just a little bit better for the actions of the quebecois. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 22:21 | 1362187 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

but who should ron paul's vice president be?  to avoid president boehner. 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:16 | 1358191 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture is the source of the gold, platinum and silver charts at my blog.

My local coin dealer uses to price his gold coins when I go to buy.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:56 | 1358338 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture and there's always for charts also

I wonder whether there's any truth to the allegations..

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:22 | 1358601 akak
akak's picture

I have had many email exchanges with Nadler. Trust me, he is very arrogant and also an idiot.

I have had several quite lengthy email exchanges with the vile and malevolent Jon Nadler as well (portions of one of which can be read here:, and while it is tempting to dismiss him as a raving idiot, I do not in fact believe that he is --- he chooses his words and consistent, persistent anti-gold/pro-bankster words and tack precisely.  His innumerable disingenuous arguments, outright lies and general poormouthing against gold (and silver), and his implicit support of the bankster elite and the financial and monetary status-quo, speak much less of idiocy, and much more to the peddling of a purposeful pro-Establishment ideological agenda. 

Nadler's arrogance and inability to honestly debate and confront the truth about gold, much less his refusal to even acknowledge the ten-year bull market in the precious metals (and not to mention his frequent malicious and hysterical attacks on the advocates of gold as "Radical Goldbug Extremists" --- but never, ever any bad words for the vastly larger number of "Radical Equities Extremists" or all the "Radical Bond Extremists"), make his position as the official spokesman of a prominent precious metals dealer all the more inexplicable and suspicious, as well as infuriating and galling.  It was with great probity, and propiety, that Peter Grandich labeled Jon Nadler "The Tokyo Rose of Gold".

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 17:13 | 1359537 Botox4U2
Botox4U2's picture

Same here. I got so fed up with his anti-gold and silver commentaries that I refuse to read his crap. Because of him and him alone I hope Kitco closes down. I've alwas suspected them of being crooks.  ARROGANT + KITCO + ARROGANT

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:09 | 1357696 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

uh, that would be jerry nadler, ce.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:24 | 1357757 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:26 | 1357770 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

Do they know who they're messing with? HA? Am the Great Jon Nadler, do they know who my friends are? Friends.... Jamie you're still my friend aren't you? You will pay for my defense won't you? Oh I couldn't bear it in prison with all those rough, smelly characters


Oh my, oh my am screwed and for tax fraud! All these years of engaging in all kinds of underhanded business dealings and they get me on taxes!! I won't be another AL Capone!!

I know where the bones are burried I will tell all, I know where Blythe's files are hidden !!!

Nobody can touch me

am untouchable! am great! am bawaaaaaahhhhhh! am screwed


DOChen will you at least visit me in prison?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:40 | 1357812 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

If you know where the bones are buried, you can have breakfast or lunch with Leo.  He will make you sound like the most loveable rascal this side of Huck Finn, or is it Mickey Finn?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1358036 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Now, that is funny!  "lunch with Leo"--excellent!

Leo Kolivakis: the toady's toady

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:08 | 1357931 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture


I tried to reach out to you years ago....but you're on your own now.

The Swiss Bandit is going down.

It couldn't happen to a more deserving person.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:02 | 1358146 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

oh man, I should have listened to you and DoChen, you tried to warn me but NOOOOOO, I had to be seduced by the glamour at Jamie's house


oh ohh woe is me!

lunch with Leo? you mean lunch alone by myself?..... who do you think Leo is you shmuck

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:24 | 1358233 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Glamour at Jamie's house is completely different than tax problems in Canada.

Well, if you do spend time in the pokey, at least you will have the memories...

So, tell us JonNadler tell us true, did you hit Blythe or just the usual Ukrainian hookers out there at Jamie's while drinking his Lafite Rothschild?

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 14:29 | 1361410 akak
akak's picture

lunch with Leo? you mean lunch alone by myself?..... who do you think Leo is you shmuck?

Hmm ... Leo and Jon Nadler do both reside in Montreal ... curiouser and curiouser ....

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:18 | 1358214 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Damn right JonNadler!

Hey you should send me a gmail at my name if you want to check out my blog.

I regret that I had to use 24hgold's charts at my blog.  Sorry.


Yeah, you should blackmail Blythe!  Hell yeah!  Have to fight dirty to stay out of jail!


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:05 | 1358379 SlipStitchPass
SlipStitchPass's picture

 Just called and pulled my pool account. Heres to hoping that check does not bounce. Fucking Nadlers

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:37 | 1357578 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

never could comprehend what nadler was on about

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:50 | 1357622 Arius
Arius's picture

what is next...dennis gartman of the famous TGL get hit by a stone walking by CNBS parking lot...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:50 | 1357857 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Hmmm.. so what's this going to do to the price of rhodium?

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 10:27 | 1362899 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

Nadler... I have never seen someone so wrong, for so long, as Jon Nadler.

If you listened to him, you missed the boat, long, long ago. Shill, useful idiot, or reverse barometer - it is anyones guess. Somehow I think the problem with him is that he was in gold in the heady days when equities saw better returns than metals and still sees gold only as something used in india during india's wedding season - for jewelry - and he can't understand gold as money at all. He doesn't understand gold's utility as a store of wealth, hence his retarded ramblings.

Regardless, personally, I can't stand him, and his ever annoying, cutesy headlines. Just nausea inducing. Needless to say, Nadler's only real utility is to make people's blood boil.

Sun, 06/12/2011 - 16:24 | 1363436 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

Had to add this - Nadler shilling for rhodium. Ha!

YouTube - KITCO's Jon Nadler Wrong On Rhodium?


Sun, 06/12/2011 - 16:39 | 1363450 akak
akak's picture

Jon Nadler is evil incarnate.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:38 | 1357583 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Honesty is, honestly, gone.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:38 | 1357588 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Always gotta pay the Gmans protection money.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:54 | 1357590 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

The company said it has asked Superior Court of Québec to appoint an interim receiver...

A huge fucking mistake!

Mark my words.  Once the receiver is in it is all over except the wake and burial.


Receivership: One of the ugliest rackets.

Judge      ---$--->    Receiver  (receivership appointments)

Receiver  ---$--->     Lawyer   (company must pay for receiver's lawyer)

Lawyer     ---$--->   Judge      (campaign contributions / mediation$)


Rinse and repeat until the company is out of assets... 

...but there is always another company.

Seen it a million times.  Makes me sick, the looting bastards.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:56 | 1357656 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Well, it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of grifters.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:29 | 1357782 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

One of the most succinct descriptions of the daily life of the "smartest guys in the room".

I think termites might be the next most effecient creature found in nature capable of devouring widow's houses. 



Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:20 | 1357981 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

A retrospective homage to termites... nice...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:19 | 1357975 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Well I suppose they are trying to keep the tax nazis from seizing the assets and killing them without due process.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:59 | 1358138 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Wrong. Maybe in the U.S. where judiciary positions are political. In Canada judgeships are judicial appointments. No connection between the judiciary and the political arms of government.

Now for the AG's of the states and the very much conflicted judiciary to get off their butts and start indicting and prosecuting with incarceration. Fat chance of that happening! Kitco will just go south of the border and set up shop with the rest of the thieves! 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:12 | 1358176 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

NEWSFLASH:  Canada is not corruption free.

Politics has little to do with it.  There is definitely a FINANCIAL connection between the judiciary (lawyers temporarily in robes) and the lawyers representing the receivers. 


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 20:02 | 1360126 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Don't confuse Quebec with Canada.Quebec law is based on pre Napoleonic French law and Quebec politics is more corrupt than Arkansas.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 01:32 | 1360685 GeoffreyT
GeoffreyT's picture

I call bullshit. Candidates are put forward by an advisory committee comprised of current jurists, but the actual appointment is done by the GG (a political appointee) who follows the advice of the Cabinet.


So while judges are not ELECTED, their appointment is sure-as-balls POLITICAL.  

It's the same everywhere - the political class requires 'safe hands' in the stupid robe-wearing geriatrics that provide the theatrical set-piece that gve a false gloss to the State's codification of its use of force and  fraud.

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 01:46 | 1360715 akak
akak's picture

It's the same everywhere - the political class requires 'safe hands' in the stupid robe-wearing geriatrics that provide the theatrical set-piece that gve a false gloss to the State's codification of its use of force and  fraud.

The black poetry of the damned.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:44 | 1357610 sudzee
sudzee's picture


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:49 | 1357613 Atchman
Atchman's picture

Yep, Nadler delivered lashings and lashings of empty rhetoric on a daily basis.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:49 | 1357614 camoes
camoes's picture

I love their BB app...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:58 | 1357619 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture


always liked their forums, though i felt as if they were monitored by big bro.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:05 | 1357682 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

EVERYTHING is monitored by big bro.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:13 | 1357710 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

It is for your own protection. 

Your compliance is acceptable as gratitude.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:27 | 1357772 Esso
Esso's picture

"EVERYTHING is monitored by big bro."


Only the stuff that occurs in the spectrum between DC and light.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:35 | 1357794 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

tru dat.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:48 | 1357620 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture


I can attest to the fact that Revenu Quebec are a bunch of psychos. They take most of your paycheck (Federal level takes a lot less) and if you owe them even just 300$, watch your kidneys.

Perhaps the bureaucrats are so clueless that they think not charging taxes for pure silver/gold is NOT a crime in Canada.



Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:05 | 1357686 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

what it is, is legal extortion. the state tax people act like the mob. they go in some place and say, you owe us this amount. and the business has the duty to prove they don't.  i know all about these goons, believe me.......

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:58 | 1357843 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Exactly the same as the IRS.   Fucking mafia for the government goons.

For all the young pups on ZH, watch your student loans.  Banks LOVE to purposefully UNDERREPORT your interest to the IRS, and then turn around and report it correctly to you.  Classic bullshit collusion to get the IRS into your life from one government business to another..  Notice you didn't do anything to get flagged, but still get the audit?  This is by design.

"Income taxes are welfare for the rich -- every penny from the poor, but not a penny more!"

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:16 | 1358206 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

They Are the mob.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:21 | 1358416 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture


Same mess everywhere man.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:20 | 1357731 oddjob
oddjob's picture

PM's are not subject to any sales tax in Canada.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:12 | 1358190 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

Only .99+ Pure PMs are not taxable and only if marked as such - ie: bullion bars and coins.

Make pure gold into 24K jewelry (or art), it becomes taxable.

Any numismatic not pure is also taxable, eg: gold soveriegns or double eagles,  90% Junk Silver, or Sterling silver anything (92.5%)

Generally won't happen on a cash transaction at the dealer, but watch out by auction/net/mail order in the same jurisdiction.  That's why selling these items cross border is popular, you don't have to collect for .gov, it's up to the buyer to remit the applicable tax local to them.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:52 | 1358886 Canuckistan Al
Canuckistan Al's picture

To be precise, in Canada, the purchase of legal tender bullion coins (gold and silver) is not taxable. However bullion bars are taxed. Never paid a dime in taxes on my coins.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 16:10 | 1359267 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

If you paid any tax on pure Ag/Au/Pt/Pd bullion bar, then you got cheated. 

Harmonized System Tariff code 7118.90 applies to bar as well as coin.

BTW, Legal tender has nothing to do with it, generic rounds are also tax free if pure (unless you plan on melting NCLT then you have to send it Stateside).

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:50 | 1357623 swissinv
swissinv's picture

dunno any details but sounds like a Chodorkowskij case

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:47 | 1357625 ahamer
ahamer's picture

... and now for settlement of all those unallocated account claims, he he!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:25 | 1357765 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I can't wait to read the eventual postmortem on these unallocated accounts. Assuming they find problems (not that hard to assume) I'm sure we will be assured by some 'authority' that except in this 'lone gunman' case all other unallocated accounts in Canada are safe and sound.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:56 | 1358118 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

moi aussi, C_D!   " said almost 125 other companies had been complicit in the scheme."

"HI! and welcome to CNBC BiChNoos!  do you know what goobermint agency has frozen yer counterparties' assets, today?"

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 16:17 | 1361658 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:30 | 1358260 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Great point Cog Dis.

Take the physical!  

If it's not in your hands (or your safe or your freezer) it's not yours!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:51 | 1357628 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

does this mean nadler is now unemployed?  shall we have a moment of silence?  naw....

couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. piss on them with their high prices and their weird commentaries.....

i hope the french close down that shylock operation.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:53 | 1357634 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

people will not be able to retire until they are in their 80's...

and now , let us talk to all of you guys and gals in your 20's, 30's , and 40's .......

are you all going to sit still for this?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:05 | 1357933 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Many people will have to work until they are too sick to work.

Then they will die.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:55 | 1358116 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Fuck that noise, everyone I know my age is piled high with student loans, cc debt, and now mortgages that they went upside down on as soon as they signed the papers. Me, I've got no debt, a myriad of skills, and am stacking PM's like a mofo.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 15:38 | 1359145 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

That's the spirit kid!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:55 | 1357641 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Got gold? The Gubmints want it.....btw: TAXES ARE THEFT!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:31 | 1358029 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Funny how some junker doesn't like to be reminded that "thou shall not steal" contains no exceptions, no matter who perpetrates the theft. All they know how to do is to rationalize in the name of TINA.

"But, but... it's for the children!"

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 09:52 | 1357645 fuu
fuu's picture

but but but the charts!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:05 | 1357695 Cynical Centaur
Cynical Centaur's picture

Office power outage my a**.

There goes my favorite passtime of checking

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:46 | 1357851 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Try nice charts w/o the fraud.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:10 | 1357953 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Here's hoping someone backs up the historical data.  Theirs is/was by FAR the best.  

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:08 | 1357705 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Interesting.  This will produce a run on the Kitco Pool accounts as panicked holders liquidate.  Kitco will have to sell the metal into the market.  Not a huge amount but every little bit helps, eh, Blythe? 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:12 | 1357959 tmosley
tmosley's picture


"Standard industry practice" is to have zero metal when you claim to hold it in allocated or unallocated form for customers.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:22 | 1357995 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

About 2 months ago I took delivery from a Kitco pooled account that I held for years--so NOT zero. They gave me serial numbers and weights within hours.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:35 | 1358051 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I would suspect they simply allocated some bars for you from their bullion purchasing program.  I'd like to see what the delays will be like over the next two months.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:40 | 1358059 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The bars were .9999 fine out of their own warehouse.  I know this for a fact because I made the armored car arrangements.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:10 | 1358178 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Well, damn.

I wonder how much they have in there, then...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:24 | 1358235 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

I've purchased off and on up until a week ago, and my significant other picked up two monster boxes just last week.  Directly from the Canadian Mint through Kitco, no problem.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:36 | 1358500 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I don't know. I got nervous, after years, when the price shot up so I took delivery (to a vault).  Kitco delivered and I owe them the good word. 

No good words for Nadler though, that SOB pissed me off so much I stopped reading even the 1st paragraph of his pompous crap a couple years back.  I have no idea why they pay that bloviating clown. 

Sat, 06/11/2011 - 01:51 | 1360726 akak
akak's picture

I am glad to see that at least you have no kind words for the poisonous snake Nadler --- I was afraid there for a bit that you might be a shill for Kitco.  My apologies.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:41 | 1358060 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Standard practice for a bank, perhaps, but as a refiner/mfr/vendor, they have to have some metal in stock.

Now, that isn't to say that it isn't sold X times over, and a race for the exits won't deplete their inventory, but I doubt it's that way currently.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:33 | 1358395 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

good points, N_A.      with 125 suspects in the investigation, we may be seeing a move by the bullion banksters via some of their brown boot goons, in this case, canadian, via the recently re-ensconced Harper goobermint?  sounds more like the recently ass-kicked force of gilles duceppe's  Bloc Québécois   who knows?

there does not seem to be much detail:  At the heart of the allegation: "In a communique, Revenue Quebec said that by converting pure gold into a gold object and then refining it back into a pure state, some in the gold industry had used “artificial transactions” to obtain refunds of taxes that were never actually paid."

i'm wondering if this is a sales tax beef.  ?  around scrap?  unfortunately, not enuf info yet.

everybody mentions nadler, but when i hear kitco, i usually associate it:  kitcoCasey;  as in doug casey:  Welcome to KitcoCasey! - Casey Research

ok, i'll admit it:  slewie's inner sherlock holmes is going ape-shit!  must. get. bong. away. from. sherlock.

not only is doug casey a playa, he has a political edge, too. via his philosophy, which seems, probably incorrectly, to me, to be a flowering of enlightenment and anarchistic eco(n)-individualism.  + mining.

so, i hope his name does not become involved. 

in watching the recent crimex action, we have seen jpmorgue collecting gold and bank0novascotia, parent 0 scotia mocatta, ditto silver, as today: DJ Comex Silver Delivery Intentions Breakdown - Jun 10, 2011   that's 59 X 5,000 oz. = 295,000 oz.  and i wonder if they plan on buying even more? 

now kitco = al capone. 


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:21 | 1357988 False Capital
False Capital's picture

Yep. Good luck with those pooled accounts. Certainly reinforces the message of "if you don't hold it, you don't own it".

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:09 | 1357707 The Fonz
The Fonz's picture

It's easy to dislike Nadler. However governments need captive investors to be forced into bonds to keep interest rates down. To the extent they can controll the price of PM's with paper markets they will not have to restrict the ownership of physical.  Vulnerable PM selling businesses being attacked may not be such a good thing. This is not the first attack we have seen on them.  Perhaps they hope to reduce the availibility of physical by these means?


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:19 | 1357739 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

I knew something was up!! I ordered a stack of Silver Bears and sent a US Money Order. KITCO sent back the MO and told me their US bank could not process it. This took six weeks. Then, if any body noticed, their website said KITCO was down due to power problems. Lying bastards, I will never buy from them again. Our company needs a new janitor, Nadler can lick the toilets seats clean with his tongue. 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:18 | 1357970 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I hate to say it, but that's what you get for buying from Kitco.  They have been known to be evil, duplicitous bastards for ages.  The only thing that made them relevant was their excellent set of historical price data.

I go with APMEX for small silver purchases, and Tulving for large ones.  Local purchases are good too.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:28 | 1358014 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Northwest Territorial Mint...Good service, good price...

Perddeee Maple Leaves... I had to put a piece of paper over the queen's ugly mug, though...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:55 | 1358929 Canuckistan Al
Canuckistan Al's picture

Used to buy from Kitco but now my business goes to Silver Gold Bulls, I find them  much less greedy when it comes to the margin they apply.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:41 | 1358296 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

"Local purchases are good too."

+ $1430

Nice to have someone around to both buy and sell with.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:13 | 1357724 no2foreclosures
no2foreclosures's picture

Kitco is part and parcel of the Power Elite / Establishmnet of Canada. They must of pissed off some big wig.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:13 | 1357725 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Whoa! That is a bit of a surprise. A swan of some hue, not clear what yet.

In spite of their mind numbing love/hate with metals (Nadler top bill?????)...

anyways, take downs all around. Abound.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:22 | 1357736 jcrows
jcrows's picture

yes, exactly,  "a Swan of some hue"

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:18 | 1357733 jcrows
jcrows's picture

Huge McLuhaneasque_medium is the message event_it indicates some kind of top in etf's, so called segratgated accounts, mining stocks etc.this will have a big effect on the no counter party theory of owning physical_anything_could be gum balls or food_anything but digits.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:25 | 1357745 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

But . . . but . . . how can I sell all of my Rhodium?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:32 | 1357780 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:25 | 1357752 gatorontheloose
Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:23 | 1357756 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

poor Jon

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:31 | 1357776 rich_maverick
rich_maverick's picture

Personally, I think that the governments will start cracking down on all PM dealerships.  Just like Belarus, they will make it illegal to buy and sell gold/silver for the average folks before their major devaluation.  However, they will never actually announce it is illegal.  They will always claim you can buy it by owning GLD and SLV.

Right now, it's just a guess.  But, if you start hearing about APMEX or Gainesville being shut down for money laundering or so other crappy reason, you know that this is what is going on.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:36 | 1357797 duo
duo's picture

I had an APMEX order "shipped to the wrong address".  Now they want me to sign some form to get it shipped again.  This is after dozens of orders with no problems.  Something is up.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:43 | 1357840 TideFighter
TideFighter's picture

"I had an APMEX order "shipped to the wrong address".  Now they want me to sign some form to get it shipped again.  This is after dozens of orders with no problems.  Something is up."

Me too!! What the hell is going on. Damn right the hue is getting darker. I'm a platinum level buyer and had to go thru a verification to get order shipped.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:55 | 1357881 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I would freak out like 250 mcg of bad acid sending money and waiting for my pm's. I go down to the local coin guy, I give him fiat, he gives me metal. Simple and safe.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:45 | 1358303 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1530

Local coin shop may be a little bit of a hassle, but I only have bought ONCE from MONEX (10 oz of Pt) when I could not find Pt locally.

If you would like to see my blog, send me a gmail at my name.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:04 | 1357915 duo
duo's picture

I'm platinum level, too.  The bars were supposed to ship May 23rd.

Maybe the big "dollar devaluation' is this weekend.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:27 | 1358453 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

9/11 .... 3/11 I see a 6/11 in our future?

Nah, I don't buy it ...I just wanted to up the blood pressure of the paranoid who frequent ZH. :-)



Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:18 | 1357990 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hmmm, I was planning on making an order today or over the weekend.  Maybe I'll be safe and just buy from a local dealer...

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:36 | 1358041 duo
duo's picture

Update.  Now it seems it was the USPS that "lost" a bunch of packages.  Sounds like some sorter figured out what was in those boxes and decided to keep a few for himself.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:46 | 1358305 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I'm thinking of making another purchase too.  It would be from my local coin shop.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:50 | 1357854 MrPike
MrPike's picture

I suppose its possible.  However, very few people are really that interested in gold or silver.  Take an average group of friends sitting down for dinner.  If you mention buying gold or silver as a way to protect against inflation, their eyes glaze over and the subject is changed almost immediately.  At least thats how it is with the group of people I hang with.  The government is made up of these very same people, they don't recognize that gold has any value at all.  To them its an absolute joke.  I don't think it will be until after the fiat wet dream evaporates, and the mainstream starts using gold and silver regularly, that the government will pay any sort of attention to it.  


Kitco had to know they were playing with fire.  Seriously, claiming refunds from the government?  The establishment is the one that does the fucking, not the other way around.  They really pushed their luck.   

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:03 | 1358608 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Right now, it's just a guess.  But, if you start hearing about APMEX or Gainesville being shut down for money laundering or so other crappy reason, you know that this is what is going on.

Speaking of crappy reasons for a crack down, check out the hysterical--and not in a funny way--tone of this article about private safe deposit boxes:

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:35 | 1357803 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

"You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

Never done business with kitco, so i can't comment on that, but i did like their charts, especially the convenient gold/exchange rates panel at the bottom of the page. 
Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:40 | 1357809 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

Gold confiscation by another name. No dealers, no problems.

Gold is an asset to be forfeited. Sorry folks, your paper 'check' is in the mail.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:44 | 1357842 falak pema
falak pema's picture

"gold is the only refuge for the proletarian who dreams of becoming rentier...

That's why we must revert to gold standard...not stick to this gold/USD standard "

who said that? Hint : It was before 1971!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:05 | 1357934 duo
duo's picture


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:48 | 1357858 friendly manitoba
friendly manitoba's picture

the receiver is so they can resume operations

they bot scrap gold and paid sales tax for which they receive a credit  that they apply against their sales tax collected on sales = net to remit to revenue canada  - we all do this in canada  

its the 130 customers of kitco that didnt remit the sales tax  they recd when they sold kitco the gold that are the problem 




Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:55 | 1358125 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

If this is true, why did they go after Kitco?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:21 | 1358232 friendly manitoba
friendly manitoba's picture

same reason they went after martha stewart 

in canada  most of the huge money is held in trusts in the caymen islands - the top 5%pay about 50%  of the taxes  - they should probably be paying 90%

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:18 | 1358221 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

Correct  - another form of government downloading.

They know they can't make Kitco responsible unless they screwed up - assuming they didn't, what the province really wants are the customer records so they can pursue any "in jurisdiction" that did not remit.  They need a charge against the buyer for a warrant to get the records.

They don't care that it's bad for business.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:52 | 1357867 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture


    Well now, if kitco were a Bank;  Revenue québec/gov't would be celebrating them....cheering them on!

This is gov't, like many around the world promoting their fiat garbage.



Fri, 06/10/2011 - 10:53 | 1357870 sunnydays
Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:02 | 1357904 ZapBranigan
ZapBranigan's picture


All Your Gold Are Belong To Us


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:10 | 1357941 rich_maverick
rich_maverick's picture

Kitco is particularly interesting for government takeover as they are one of the few which hold "pool accounts" outside the banking/government sectors.  I'm sure that someone must be salivating over the possibility of taking control of what should be real physical gold and silver (un-headged).  Given that Scotia is out of physical...  this could very well be a play to take over a large physical inventory.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:27 | 1358023 Arnolds Love Child
Arnolds Love Child's picture

Consider this a warning shot.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:39 | 1358055 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Warning shots don't usually sink ships.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:40 | 1358057 Marty Rothbard
Marty Rothbard's picture

I'm cerrainly glad I cleaned out my Kitco silver pool acount last December.  I could tell I was doing the right thing, since they kept offering to cover fees with part of the pool money, rather than have me send a check.  I hope the crooks fry.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:16 | 1358189 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I see no reason to call them crooks--and hope people with money in those pool accounts or pending orders, get every ounce and cent.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:56 | 1358119 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


"Don't steal, the government doesn't like the competition."


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 11:54 | 1358123 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

That's the problem with being a bag man. For a moment you feel in control with minimal risk and a generous cut of the proceeds. That is until both sides conspire to hang you out... Like when a cop is on the take.

Those who are paid to "insure integrity" look the other way in enforcement until the time is right to take down the greater fool.

Dave Harrison

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:04 | 1358141 walcott
walcott's picture

40 days and waiting on a paltry order of just 10 silver eagles from Bullion Direct.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:01 | 1358144 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

Just received this email from Kitco.  Have never experienced a problem with them at any time in the last three years.  Absolutely hate Nadler, but no bad press between them and me.

Montreal, June 9, 2011 Contrary to Revenu Québec’s allegations in a press release published today,
Kitco Metals Inc. (Kitco) has never participated in any tax fraud, nor has it ever carried out any fictitious
transactions. In all respects, Kitco vigorously contests all aspects of Revenu Québec’s investigation.
Mindful of protecting its irreproachable reputation, Kitco has mandated attorneys, of the law firm of
Gowling Lafleur Henderson, to evaluate all available recourses with regards to the allegations of Revenu
Earlier today Kitco, filed and presented a motion at the Superior Court of Québec to have an interim
receiver appointed so that it may continue its normal operations under the supervision of the accounting
firm RSM Richter (Mr. Gilles Robillard, partner). This action was taken in the interest of the corporation, of
its clients and of its business partners to allow for the time required to vigorously contest Revenu
Québec’s unfounded claims. As always, Kitco will respect all of its commitments towards its clients and
business partners.
Kitco buys precious metals scrap and pays the suppliers sales taxes on these purchases for which Kitco
receives a tax credit. It is the responsibility of these suppliers to pay back the sales taxes to Revenu
Québec. Revenu Québec alleges that some of these suppliers have not remitted the taxes paid to them.
Revenu Québec is unjustly holding Kitco responsible for the unremitted taxes, which led to the issuance
of the tax assessments.
Kitco is vigorously opposing these tax assessments. Kitco has respected all applicable laws and by-laws
since the founding of the company over 30 years ago.
A Canadian corporation founded in 1977, Kitco Metals Inc. is an international company with its head
office located in Montreal, and operates offices in New York, Hong Kong and Shanghai. It is one of the
largest retailers of precious metals in the world, and a specialized supplier of refining services. Kitco has
a workforce of 200 employees and provides a vast array of gold, silver, platinum, palladium and rhodium
products to tens of thousands of clients. The company is one of few authorized resellers of products
made by some of the most prestigious government mints. Considered to be the leading precious metals
reference, Kitco’s website ( is visited daily by close to a million people around the world
and has received industry awards. Kitco has earned a solid reputation for itself as a leading innovator in
the industry, being the first precious metals company to carry out its activities online and to create realtime
market information applications for smartphones.


Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:08 | 1358168 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

i always thought of jon nadler as the jim cramer of the pm loss

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 12:24 | 1358231 dust to dust
dust to dust's picture

 I'm gonna kind of miss Alix Steel and her PM updates.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:54 | 1358532 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Monedas' ideal woman would be a cross between Alix Steel and Maria Bartiromo with her fucking Sophia Loren meet me in the bedroom eyes ! Monedas 2011 Talent Search World Tour ! We all want that, " I want to suck your dick so hurts !" ? Dream on !!!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 15:00 | 1358965 pitz
pitz's picture

I won't; she married an ugly dude probably 8-10 years older... 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:20 | 1358362 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Monedas is currently working off a 90 day banning from Kitco ! However, they have always delivered the goods ! I just checked and my last two ounces of Pd were shipped ! I picked up two of those Russian/London bars ! The posters there complain a lot about Nadler but Monedas, Maverick Hoarder About Town, is not affected by such cult of the personality trivia ! I wish them well and am hopeful this is a tempest in a Silver teapot ! Monedas 2011 You know the Socialists will be coming for the dealers, the miners and the hoarders ! This could be a practice run to learn how to proceed against the PM industry ! Who you gonna believe ? French speaking revenue whores or an honorable PM merchant ?

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:36 | 1358485 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Ive often used CMI in Phoenix AZ without any problems and know others who have never had problems with them.  Anyone here who has had problems, concerns re. CMI?

Never trusted Kitco because Nadler, that obvious piece of shit, was there. 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 13:56 | 1358577 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

The immediate effect will be a liquidation of pooled accounts, I would think.  Kitco will need to sell the metal to cover.   Providing their have it all, that is risk free since they will price the sales with their customary spread.  What it will do is put some unkown (to us) number of good delivery bars on the street.

Providing Kitco pool investors get all their money back, what will they do with it?  CEF? PSLV? PHYS? or if they are stupid, SLV, GLD?  I've got a feeling most of those investors won't go to physical bullion or they would have done that to begin with. 

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 18:44 | 1359889 honestann
honestann's picture

Why is that, exactly?  If you own PHYSICAL silver or PHYSICAL gold, then they should (or must) send you what you own.

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind allow them to send a fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve debt toilet-paper instead of what they own?  That would create a taxable event for which NONE of those customers are due.

Therefore, THAT would be fraud in my eyes.

They own physical, so send them physical.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:37 | 1358821 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

If you think the IRS and Revenue Canada do not share data, you're dreaming. Watch and see what happens next.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 14:40 | 1358841 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

It must be serious if Canada's most corrupt province is calling a foul!

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 15:00 | 1358968 vamoose1
vamoose1's picture

   get your  head screwed on...kitco  is  short.  it means massive  buying  of  fizz not selling    you  moron and  possibly  the end  of  fractional  reserve  pm  banking,  who would  own  unbacked paper silver now

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 16:08 | 1359276 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

I agree, this could be the black swan for the bullion dealers, and have quite the domino effect.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 16:27 | 1359348 dust to dust
dust to dust's picture

 Took delivery of twenty Silver Eagles today from Apmex. Ordered on Mon. delivered on Fri. Not bad and never any problems with orders since 2004. Buy and hold physical.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 18:41 | 1359878 honestann
honestann's picture

APMEX is top notch.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 16:44 | 1359453 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Kitco buys precious metals scrap and pays the suppliers sales taxes on these purchases for which Kitco
receives a tax credit. It is the responsibility of these suppliers to pay back the sales taxes to Revenu
Québec. Revenu Québec alleges that some of these suppliers have not remitted the taxes paid to them.
Revenu Québec is unjustly holding Kitco responsible for the unremitted taxes, which led to the issuance
of the tax assessments.

I'm inclined to take Kitco at their word, here.  I'm more inclined to the think the revenuers are thugs than I am to think Kitco is not compliant on their side.  For them to be held responsible for their customer's failure to pay taxes, it seems they would have to be colluding somehow.  I don't believe it.



Fri, 06/10/2011 - 19:53 | 1360096 ahamer
ahamer's picture

Reasonable on the face of it, but the complaint seems to allege that the 'supplier' bought 'paper bullion' and then made 'paper trinkets and jewellery' and then sold this as scrap, for which a sales tax credit was claimed (in paper money, of course)

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