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Koo: "Greece Is Not Argentina"
So far, every iteration of the trite, overused and cliched "X is not Y" has meant to generate confidence, when all it really does is inspire laughter. Today we get Nomura's stimulus advocate Richard Koo giving a different spin on the "Greece is not Argentina" perspective. "It should now be obvious that it is reckless to argue that since Argentina successfully defaulted on its debt, so can Greece. While the probability of success is not zero, I suspect the associated costs would be significantly greater than what Argentina experienced. That it took Argentina more than two years to restore real GDP to pre-default levels despite having its own currency suggests that it would take Greece substantially longer. This means Greece faces several years of extremely painful adjustments no matter which path it takes. It is simply not the case that everything will be all right if Greece just defaults and leaves the euro." His conclusion: "I have previously noted that the current euro problems are attributable to the fact that the designers of the eurozone forgot to enact one rule when they introduced the common currency—namely, a regulation stating that member countries can sell government debt only to their own people. Had this rule been adopted ten years ago, the current problems in Greece and Portugal would never have happened." Supposedly this is predicated by the sterling example of Japan's 200% debt/GDP being indicative of how a ridiculous debt load can be spun as a good thing. We would like to add our own contribution: "Koo's version of Japan is not reality's version of Japan." But just like in Europe, this will also take time to be processed by the market.
The strategist's latest note in full:
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When are we gonna hear US is not Europe?
Right after Greece goes all "Argentina"
Argentina was courageous and thumbed their nose at the IMF and the World Bank. Greece is a weasel country that is still trying to get everyone else to pay their bills for their profligacy. The lesson is that Greece will be effectively taken over by its bond holders. Argentina suffered the pain and came out with its dignity and nationhood in tact.
Greek government = weasels. Greek people want their government out. Trouble is every time the protests get to be overwhelming, the government send in the agents provateurs and allows the police to beat, and throw rocks at protesters, and cover the whole center of the city in a cloud of expired tear gas.
When are we going to hear that Argentina is the model?
Ferfal has been saying that for years on his blog.
Or Iceland?
When are we going to hear there is neither US nor Europe?
edit
Koo is just one more soldier ant in the global banker's propaganda network.
And Koo isn't doing a very good job either.... He just compared Greece and Argentina. Any propagandist should know that negative comparisons are a great way to get people to make comparisons.
What's the next gaff from this public-relations genius going to be: "Italy is not Greece"?
yup - and I'm not Barack O'bummer
Barack Obama, Barak Mounir Ubayd, Harrison J. Bounell, Saebarkah, or whichever name Barry Soetoro is using lately.
Full retard america, a president with no identifiable historical record, with so many different names used we cant keep track...and no one cares. US has lost its mind completely.
you are a racist. pure and simple. anyone who cannot see past the present and not realize that the fat white fuckwits really did sell you out is a moron. yeah. blame the black guy. use his name as a stick to beat him into the cotton field where he belongs.
personally i think he has done a shit job. but he isnt a total cunt like Bush.
OH now Im a 'racist', simply because I researched and listed just a FEW of the names 'Barack Obama' HAS USED in the past! How about those 5 social security numbers, just those that we know of? You're a baboons ass.
BTW, Soetoro is black? Huh...I thought he was half white! Who's the racist now?
Where do perform your research, FOXipedia?
Oh look, another idiot popped up.
As often as you post, you certainly advertise who you really are as a person.
Yea, one of the few who actually knows what the hell is really going on? You can tell by the reaction to such facts as stated above, the sheeple cant handle the truth. Too bad for them.
I'll concede that you may know alot about some things, but I doubt that you know a lot about every thing. (BTW, I did not Junk you.)
Why can't we all get along and worship ME?
SheepDog,
Interesting indeed!
Documentation please?
touche'....agreed (except calling the man a douche doesn't presuppose racism). Bush was a pansy, his daddy was a wannabe Prescott emulator, Clinton - meh?, you name it.....
Telling the easily verified terrible truth now makes you a 'racist' among the 'smart people' of america who can only look at things thru their 'Demican/republicrat brainwashing....LOL!!! No better than Lord of the Flies...have fun in the coming days my pretties, Im going to be laughing my ass off.
and yet you guys elected those guys and nobody protested....
Well Sudden Debt if you recall, ANY criticism at all towards Mr Harrison J. Bounell was attacked viciously with charges of RACISM, and DOMESTIC TERRORIST...remember that? 'Nobody protested'? LOL. There were many protests, and the Govt/Media complex scoffed at them all calling anyone against Mr Saebarkah 'must be short a few chromosomes'. Oh well, time to pay now, enjoy.
Sheep Dog,
What on earth are you talking about? I must not be living in your country.
There's nothing racist about what he said.
The more people cry racist the less it means and nobody cares.
You ain't seen nuthin' yet! We'll see how you feel about him next year, when the half-caste CIA-plant starts starving blacks and whites alike.
Bush was dumb evil ... this guy's pure sociopathic evil.
Exactly.
I heard on FOX News that Obama had Gay Sex with a Terrorist at a Convention for Unionized Abortionists.
HE! I THOUGHT I WASN'T O'BUMMER!
so, you wanna get in a pissin' contest over who's not O'bummer, huh? I think you'll need to get in line.... things nust be real boring in belgium this morning :)
business is always slow in the summer :)
contests which are about being NOT a specific person are the only ones where I have a chance to win.
I'm KooKoo for Koo's puffs!
well... taking a second, more geographical look.... this is actually true.
I believe Argentina's debt/GDP ratio was about 60% when they went belly up. Compare it to Greece's present 143%, and other EU countries as well..
Which proves his point. Greece is not Argentina. Greece is more than twice as bankrupt as Argentina. Did I mention Greece is not Argentina?
Lots of Germans want to go there on holiday and put their towels by the pool. Paying in Drachma. Buying Chinese made blue and white nick-knacks to take home as gifts..... He is correct. Greece is NOT Argentina. In Argentine we only have German NAZI runaways like Josef Mengele.
Well in the US we have a lot of Nazi runaways as well under Project Paperclip, starting with Bushs grandfather, an SS officer. Did ya know that?
I take your word for it then. Have you been following the story about the the black bodybuilding bible bashing butt beater? Anyone who forgives can fuck off in my book.
WTF are you mumbling about now?
Buying Chinese...nick-knacks to take home as gifts
---
I want my pissing Archimedes statuette... The REAL father of "trickle down" economics...
The National Socialist German Workers Party (Nazi) was a racist leftist movement, comrade. It differed from the Communist Party only on matters concerning race and control of private property. It was and is another leftist alternative to Communism. Communism and National Socialism share the same mother: The First Internationale.
Pure stupidity. Nazism was nothing like Soviet Communism. Differed only on matters concerning race? Total cluelessness.
Communism is inherently anti nationalistic, that is one of the primary left right differences. Nazism was ferociously nationalistic.
Communism does not allow private ownership, Nazism most certainly did.
German top individual tax rates under Nazism? About 14-15% ish. Hardly even socialistic.
The problem here is a a stupid group of epsilon double minus sub morons in the US with very little concept of anything that actually occured in those years or what any of those political philosophies actually mean. Just dumb people calling the other guys Nazis with little or no comprehension.
Nationalism/internationalism and private/public ownership are the primary things that differentiate left and right.
Put a boot through your TV and read some books.
So Soviet Communism was inherently anti-nationalistic??? Since they weren't promoting national"ism" - I guess they were promoting individual"ism", or was it religion"ism", or was it cultural"ism", or was it race"ism"???
And I guess all those industries in Nazi Germany were free to make what they wanted, sell their chosen to goods to whomever they chose, and charge whatever price the market would support???
What were the income and corporate tax rates under Soviet Communism??? (Since the numbers for Nazi Germany are being provided and characterized as having significance).
I, personally, look at a number of factors when determining "ownership". Otherwise, I could look at the United States right now and come to the conclusion that MERS is the proper owner of God knows much of the real estate market. John Paulson also took a rather simplistic view of "ownership" recently when he decided to buy into Sino Forest- it cost him and his company a fuck-ton of money, they probably won't be doing that again.
At its root, Global Collectivism.
The best known slogan of the Manifesto is "Workers of the world, unite". The aim of Soviet Communism was a world revolution of the proletariat, Germany had no such goals.
You may define ownership as you please, but Germans owned their own land and businesses, paid minimal taxes, and central planning was virtually absent until Speer took over at the end. Indeed, a case could be made that the total lack of central organization in the economy cost them the war.
Yes, until the war started companies could pretty much do business as they wanted.
Claiming that the Nazis were lefties because of the use of the word socialism is like saying that dems in the US dont want centralized power because they call themsleves the Democratic party and repubs dont roll over for corporations because they call themsleves Republican and therefore care only about the Republic. Labels are only labels- Hitler was just stealing the thunder fof the left in the aftermath of the civil war.
The problem here is a a stupid group of epsilon double minus sub morons in the US with very little concept of anything that actually occured in those years or what any of those political philosophies actually mean. Just dumb people calling the other guys Nazis with little or no comprehension. -and you're trying to split hairs over the distinction between collectivism and nationalism.
Germans owned their own land and businesses, paid minimal taxes, and central planning was virtually absent until Speer took over at the end. - The Four Year Plan (prior to WW2) was central planning at its finest, Stalin's 2nd Five Year Plan borrowed elements of Hitler's earlier Four Year Plan, which had in turn borrowed elements from Stalin's first Five Year Plan. Contemporary income taxes in the Soviet Union were lower than in Nazi Germany.
until the war started companies could pretty much do business as they wanted. - If this were the case then Germany would never have been able to wage WW2.
Claiming that the Nazis were lefties because of the use of the word socialism- I never claimed the Nazis were lefties because of the use of the word socialism. However, they were lefties because of far more than just their economic policy- there was the forced labor policy, the centralized eugenic apparatus, state marriage control, free state sponsored heathcare and centralized administration beginning in 1934 -whether sterilization or the T4 plan.
The Nazis were Fascists. Although Fascism is hard to define precisely, it is a unholy alliance between corporate, military and political power groups. The Nazis were obsessively racist to the point of trying to exterminate inferior racial groups. Homosexuals, mentally deficient and ill people as well as communsits were all sent to the camps.
The USSR wasn't really a country, it was the last colonial empire. It was mildly ethnist and racist, but in the end it severely exploited any non-Russian ethnic group. The end result was not all that different from Fascism, although it would never describe itself that way. Ultimately, the inequalities kept it from functioning efficiently, and led to its collapse.
Communism promotes the elimination of ethnic, religious and racial groups, which is equally bad in the opposite direction. Anti-racists try to eliminate all references to racial differences, good or bad. But that means everyone must conform to some ideal form of non-racist behavior. In the end this can only be the power group's behavioral standard. FOr example, in America blacks are OK if they don't "act black".
It's not complicated: you take people one at a time. If you don't like them, fine. But don't try to control their behavior or eliminate their culture.
"Argentina..mmm...is not...*slurp*...Greece," Koo tries to struggle out the words, but becomes scared as Bernanke pushes his full girth into Koo's tiny mouth. Koo tries to push Bernanke off, but Bernanke is oh-so-insistent, and grasps Koo's Hermes tie hard, pressing harder towards the back of Koo's throat. Bernanke then erupts into Koo's waiting maw. Hot jizz flows out the side of Koo's mouth, his eyes bugging and his face turning red from lack of oxygen. Bernanke is finished, and finally releases Koo, who quickly collapses to the floor, crying.
I'm thinking of doing banker erotica and charging guys at Goldman $100 a story.
im just glad i thought jung was a damn sight smarter than freud.
your avatar evidences this perception; thanks, btw...reminds me of my last girlfriend (don't ask)
bigwavedave's avatar is muir's avatar gone totally insane.
...no it's worse!
Greek history lesson just ou from Marla for those so inclined:
http://www.finemrespice.com/node/96
Greece is worse than Argentina. Nice try though Koo Im sure you got paid pretty well for carrying the central bankster overlords water.
Greece is not Argentina...
In Argentina, you have a bunch of rich fucks & hollywood types scooping up land in Patagonia... Instead, In Greece... Oh no wait!
Funny thing is... One of the largest 'private' landowners (in Argentina), are the Bennetton family...
Seems there a lot of sheep there... Wool bitchez!
Greeks did fine for thousands of years without the "Others" and we will do fine (yes I am Greek) once we exit the cult of Europe. Greece can be like Argentina. The Powers That Be (PTB) don't want troubled countries using another defaulted country as a template for future defaults - we can't set succesful precedents here...Yes, default would be extremely painful in the short to mid term but it's the only way out.
Look, the Euro was a good experiment with good intentions but it's essentially over.
go iceland my friend. get the politicos out of the process, anyway anyhow. then be Greek. we will always love you. default now. make them pay. if you do this and go back to Drachmas I promise that I will visit you for 2 or 3 weeks next summer.
Totally agree! But how do you get G-Pap out? Any chance the questioning of his brother about CDS will result in anything significant-- like the government falling?
Agree, just imagine if Greece defaulted and 1-2 yrs later was back on its feet. If this happened right in the middle of the EU while the other PIIGS were experiencing austerity measures and loaded up with even more debt, well it wouldn't look good for the EU/Banks/IMF/Multinational Co.s agenda. Even if the other PIIGS emerge with a growing economy they will still have an even bigger debt to deal with and its not going away.
US is not Europe
Europe is not Africa
Africa is not Asia
Asia is not US
=> US is not US
adding Karl Popper: When rationally US cannot be US, then US must be a black swan.
The US is kinda like Greece.....but not Iceland....definitely not. Argentina......that's just krazy talk there.
You have to give Koo some credit. He is correct in that Argentina was able to manipulate its own currency and decide on its own whether to default or not. Greece is not given any option, but to be a bastard child within a bastard family.
At least Argentina can export agricultural commodities and...has Messi
Maybe if Greeks took to the streets banging pots and pans.....
another example of self delusion and idiocy,argentina has corn,wheat,soy,gas,oil,gold.silver,etc,etc,while greece has olives and government employees.laughable
Por lo menos jugamos bien al futbol, no como todos los paises nombrados en los comentarios... eso si es importante! :)
y el carne de vaca Argentino... espectacular tambien!
meat is a given when you speak about the best in the world... let's not forget chicks... prime stuff too!
....the good ol' drachma, that brings back good memories.
I'm off to get a good pot & pan
True. Argentina isn't greece.
Argentina has a lot of farmable land.
Argentina has a lot of resources.
Argentina could print it's own money.
...
Poor Greece. All they have is sheep and olive oil...
what can one do with sheep and olive oil? One, can for e<CENSORED>
no one will ever go to Argentina on a bus tour.
nobody should go on a bus tour to Greece either :)
How about a cruise then? Lots of cruises to the beautiful Aegean. Not so much to Buenos Aires.
Greece has the best, best fruits and vegetables. They have the best, best fish. Not many countries have as excellent a climate with as much sunshine (hence, there is talk about solar energy development). It must have resources or the agreements it signed for giving up exploration rights for oil and other natural resources wouldn't have been required by the troika. Greece can and should print its own money. G-Pap and his party are standing in the way. They want to please their European bosses first.
Sure if Argentina defaults it's because it's some bannana republic. If a major european nation defaults those in power have to admit their system is screwed up and they got it wrong. Hence why we will see the endless bailouts. To admit something is wrong means they would have to alter it, means they may make less or be out of power. Not going to happen!!
it's nice dissing Greece - that's what they want us to do - talk like it's a competition between Argentina & Greece - pit one against the other but what we're talking about economic wars against sovereign states.
Many Greeks sought (and seek) solidarity with their Argentinian counterparts.
Yes, Greece is poor but that is preferable - the more lucrative resources you have, the more you become a target of the Powers That Be.
I agree. I have no idea who these folks are who are so angry at Greece. Must have had a bad vacation there-- maybe they didn't get "lucky".
Greece can take advantage in case they witness a formidable break down. It might attract a new kind of "collapse tourists".
My X-TREME Greek Vacation. Umbrella cocktails by day...Molotovs by night.
Koo doesn't mention energy imports paid for in euros which is the real reason no EU country will voluntarily default. Saudi Arabia has no interest in steeply devalued drachma/lira; these would have to be swapped -- at a steep discount -- for dollars in order for PIIGS etc. to buy fuel.
It will likely come to this anyway, as Greece is hopelessly bankrupt and the other EU states aren't far behind.
Someone needs to post a picture of Baghdad Bob after reading this thread.
Wow, lotsa supposed "smart" commentary on Greece, but no mention of gold.
You guys do know that's *the* main feature of the EMU, right- the GOLD?
http://www.ecb.int/press/pr/wfs/2011/html/fs110706.en.html
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/07/euro-gold.html
Koo seems to think that simply centralising all the debt in the government is a good idea. It's the ultimate in can kicking. Banker's heaven.
Just get rid of it.
Greece... 2 years of pain vs 20 years of pain. You choose.
So, I had an orange for breakfast that tasted just like an apple. I looked at the bowl of oranges and realized that either they're really all apples or else the grocery store is lying. Could I really be so dumb as to not be able to tell the difference? Well apparently most of the world is....
It's all going to be fine.. a uk gov stooge was on the national radio this morning saying that the only way to save the world is for a federal europe and that default is NOT an option.
Greece will continue this nonsense as long as the ECB and others loan them more than enough to pay their interest and principal. (in other words they still get the benefit of a primary deficit) As soon as any of the loan programs require them to pay ANY interst not to mention ANY principal they will default, leave the Euro, make good their debts to Greek banks and it's game over.
No, Richard, Greece is not Argentina....Argentina could devalue...and eventually recovered.
oooo yes. Greece is not Argentina.
It's much worse. For greek people.
Banksters will suck them until judgement day. And do not forget magic words: don't let the good crisis go into waste!
Greece is not Argentina. Do you know why?
Because unlike the Greeks, the Argentinians are hard working, play great football and have beautiful women.
Greece on the other hand received 90 billions euros from the EU since it entered and did NOTHING. Source : www.money-go-round.eu/Year.aspx?year=0
Argentina compared to Greece, is like comparing a beautiful white speedy horse with a fat old pig.
HEDGETIDIOT
Good boy! Toe the mainstream media line, blame the people of Greece for the shit their politicians put on them.
So typical.
Unlike other clowns on this thread, I will not disparage ARG or GRE, it's not a competition.
Screw them all, default, let the bastards who took the risk pay for it.
This is wake-up call to all countries under the yoke of the New Debtocracy.
...and HedgetShit, you should visit Greece (not Athens), expand your limited horizons, and you'll find true beauty
With people talking like you, no wonder Greece is junk.
Be honest, how old was your father when he retired? And that neighbour down the street that recently retired from that warm government job?
You Greeks are lazy people. Period. You even import Eastern Europeans to do the dirty jobs you guys don't want to do.
Oh, and who voted the corrupt politicians in Greece?
Well your fellow countrymen. Why? Because of promises of easy money. What does that tell you? Greeks don't like work and like to be subsidized by hard working germans and scandinavians.
Greece got from the EU the same amount as Spain, even though Spain is 4 times larger than Greece in population numbers. So following this logic, Greece should do way better than Spain. It's not. Just an example.
Poor baby. You must have had a bad vacay in Greece. Maybe you'll get lucky with those Germans or Scandinavians you see on the beach next time, if you whisper in their ear about how hard-working they are and how the Greeks don't deserve them as tourists.
I personally think that Greece is in much worse shape than Argentina ever was. Argentina never had as much debt. I doubt that Greece is much more competitive (less I guess) and doesn't produce anything. Argentina has political problems and corruption but so does Greece. They are doomed - Greek tragedy. Even then they will refuse to do any work and try to talk the Germans into paying their pensions/salaries.
It seems what Richard Koo and others are missing is that, in essence, Greece is printing its own currency realize it or not. Nearly everyone from the status quo is obsessed with ring-fencing and fire-breaking Greece as a means to isolate it from the remainder of Europe while Greece remains in the monetary union. This set of operative conditions gives weight to Greece far in excess of its nominative footprint.
Greece has Europe, especially Italy shaking in their boot
http://youtu.be/fZd9mKJcOR0
Perhaps there may yet come a day when Richard Koo and Silvio Berlusconi come to appreciate that there is no such thing as a free lunch
http://youtu.be/dlPjxz4LGak
Greeks are not lazy, they just know how to play the system, just like GS, JPM, et al. The Germans may be "harder working" but they're not that bright if they allow Europe to lend/give money to "lazy" Greece. To clarify, now that Greece is defaulting, they're lazy? What about before this shit hit the fan, weren't they lazy? Should money be lent to lazy countries?
Greeks were living the good life (until now), and no one said anything - they were busy lending money to them. Now, default, hey! Look at those Greeks, they're lazy pigs!
Who's fooling who here? Greece worked the system and people are pissed at that.
So the Greeks worked the system, everyone else now wants to punish them by asset stripping them, to have some sort of "justice" for them playing the system, and you are against IT???
You sir are a fuckin idiot!!
If I lend money to someone I know, and when time comes for him to repay me, and says "Tough luck bubba, if you were stupid enough to lend me money", well those will be his last words. I'm gonna skull fuck him, kill his children and rape his wife, coz' I ain't gonna see my money, might as well enjoy my revenge.
You're an angry little person, aren't you? Well, if you were bank and it was your job to evaluate credit worthiness and you loaned to someone who was not credit worthy a ton of money, then you weren't too good at your job, eh?
Doesn't matter to me that I was stupid enough to lend you money as a bank, I have the guns. If you don't pay, I'm gonna kill you.
Now enjoy that fetta cheese, while you can, will ya
Exactly, they made bad loans so accept the consequences. OTH those loans weren't made because of credit worthiness, but was part of the agenda to take away sovereignty, force privitization, manipulation, and leverage.
Well, if the Greeks value so much their country and sovereignty, they shouldn't have taken those loans, wouldn't they?
But they did, because they are lazy olives eater people, so now they must pay. They don't wanna pay, asset striping or default. Doesn't really mater, what will they choose, they are fucked. It's their own doing.
Well, if the Greeks value so much their country and sovereignty, they shouldn't have taken those loans, wouldn't they?
Wrong, it was the politicians, who like almost all politicians are on the take from big business, and cater to the demands of the EU and IMF who cater to Multinationals. They lie their asses off to get elected then change their agenda once elected, and rarely if ever represent the average citizen. Do politicians value their country? I would say no. They threw the common man some crumbs while they and their bribers raped the country, and now its time for the common man to pay for those crumbs and also the corruption of the politicians. It would seem the least they could do is share the blame, haircuts for the banks and bondholders and austerity measures for the people, but heaven forbid any resemblance of fairness.
We set precedents in 2008, do what you must to work the system and get bailed out! There is no responsibility anymore. I'm not defending Greece here, they're doing just what GS et al did.
Corp's got bailouts and secret backroom deals, why shouldn't sovereign nations?
Why aren't you going after Blankfein's & Dimons's kids? Did they pay everything back?
You're just an ignorant fuckhead who will read the mainstream press and make judgements and racial slurs to feed your retarded logic.