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Kyodo Reports Radiation At Fukushima Jumps To Twice Maximum Seen So Far
As the public is concerned about a possible deterioration at Dai'ichi Reactor 2, which according to TEPCO is now in a worse condition than either Reactor One or Three, Kyodo reports that radiation twice the maximum seen so far detected at nuke plant Monday. We are currently looking for a real time μsievert update or online Geiger counter tracking at Fukushima, which would probably be the most useful service to a population that has been lied to repeatedly (it's all contained until someone actually checks) by the government over the past 48 hours. Additionally, AP reports that the 7th fleet has shifted positions to avoid possible fallout: "As a precaution, the U.S. said the carrier and other 7th Fleet ships involved in relief efforts had shifted to another area."
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Its not the same type of reactor, so by definition it wont be a Chernobyl like event. more like TMI
Its Chernobyl like only in the sense that once the reactors melt the fuel rods, the only way to block the radioactive metal pool is entomb the structure in sand and concrete to make sure radiation is not released into the atmosphere.
Of course if the molten fuel pool melts through the bottom of the containment vessel and meets the water table, its an entirely different ball of wax.
What we are witnessing is a giant science experiment which will be used to teach the next genereation of nuclear engineers, providing mankind survives and I don't mean that we will be devasted globally by this particular incident. Humanity has shown it has an infinite capacity for comitting folly on a very large scale, just think when they finally make a fusion reactor that it is totally safe. Imagine the heat of the sun if it happens to fall out of its containment field, that would start a very large fire as it burns to the core of the earth.
Just one scenario, but I'm certain we have enough bravado, innocence and greed to ensure our capacity to destroy ourselves always becomes more than sufficient for the task at hand, the main thing that will increase is the ease and speed with which we will be able to kill ourselves. Germ warfare, dirty bombs, etc. on a long enough timeline we are all dead.
JFC, this hysteria is going up faster than the rad count in a full blown criticality accident. We need Tyler to put a hysteria meter under the ZH banner
Dude, these guys quoted in the article are NOT nuclear engineers.
Cirincione is an honors graduate of Boston College and holds a Masters of Science from the Georgetown School of Foreign Service. Bradford is a 1964 graduate of Yale University and received his law degree from the Yale Law School in 1968. He teaches energy policy and law at the Vermont Law School.
They have no clue about the physics/engineering of the situation.
TEPCO's latest
Press Release (Mar 14,2011)
White smoke around the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 3 (3rd release) At approximately 11:01am, an explosion followed by white smoke occurred at the reactor building of Unit 3. It was believed to be a hydrogen explosion. According to the parameter, it is believed that the reactor containment vessel remains intact. However, the status of the plant and the impact of radioactive materials to the outside environment are presently under investigation. (previously announced) As of 1:30 pm, 4 TEPCO employees and 3 workers from other companies have sustained injuries (all of them are conscious). 3 ambulances are in operation to care for them and 2 have already dispatched the casualties to the hospital. As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose near MP6 was 4?Sv/h. The increase of the radiation dose cannot be confirmed at this time. As of 0:30 pm, the measured value of radiation dose at the monitoring post in Fukushima Daini Power Station located approximately 10 km south of Fukushima Daiichi Power Station remains at the same level. In light of the incidents that have occurred at Units 1 and 3, we are considering applying prevention measures to the wall of the reactor building to ventilate the hydrogen gas contained in Unit 2. TEPCO continues to take all measures to restore the safety and security of the site and are monitoring the site's immediate surroundings.
"In light of the incidents that have occurred at Units 1 and 3, we are
considering applying prevention measures to the wall of the reactor
building to ventilate the hydrogen gas contained in Unit 2."
Translation: dynamite a hole in the wall of the building to let the gas escape... while wearing tin foil hats and suits, of course.
The island is only something like 80 miles wide at that point. Additionally, a mountain range bisects it. Should the "exclusion zone" less than double from here, to the point that the major highway becomes off-limits, it will effectively dissect the North from the South. Not entirely of course, but all the talk of reconstruction is already questionable given the age of the population of the North and the existing need to replace what are effectively farming and fishing economies.
TEPCO press release re failure of cooling system on reactor #2
Press Release (Mar 14,2011)
Occurrence of a Specific Incident (Failure of reactor cooling function) Stipulated in Article 15, Clause 1 of the Act on Special Measures Concerning Nuclear Emergency Preparedness At 2:46PM on March 11th 2011, the turbines and reactors of Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 (Boiling Water Reactor, rated output 460 Megawatts) and Units 2 and 3 (Boiling Water Reactor, Rated Output 784 Megawatts) that had been operating at rated power automatically shutdown due to the Tohoku-Chihou-Taiheiyou-Oki Earthquake. (previously announced) In response, water injection into Unit 2's reactor were being carried out by the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System. However, as the Reactor Core Isolation Cooling System failed today, it was determined that a specific incident (failure of reactor cooling function) stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred at 1:25 pm today.
So there are rad monitors in Hilo and Honolulu but the data is lagged about six months. I tried...again, the chances of anything serious reaching the US is slight (mainly due to the presumed low altitude of the particles barring a big steam eruption), but something might already be readable on a sensitive instrument.
http://www.epa.gov/narel/radnet/region9.html
Hawaii.
When's the Springsteen "NO NUKES: Part Deaux" concert line-up going to be announced ?
Your leaders are hard at work reducing the world's population. The goal is to fry the useless mouths in the USSA. Stop whining and enjoy your fate!
Remember this?
Japan wrestles with ageing problemPensioner numbers growing
For Japan that is the problem - by 2055 the government is predicting pensioners will be around half the population.
The numbers of the very oldest are growing steeply and that means rising costs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7472140.stm
Well, it looks like the Japanese government may now have a solution to their expensive "problem":
We've been told not to go outside and breathe the air, to stay here and watch the TV.
Never let a crisis go to waste, eh Japan?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/japanese-officials-say-nuclear-fuel-rods-likely-melting-all-three-troubled-japanese-reactors#comment-1050357
Everything blowing up in the media, including this place, is already known, as is the worst possiblt outcome of the current situation in all three reactors.
Calm down people.
http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/
I'm pretty sure that MIT professor has been rebutted rather painfully.
I'll find a link when I get the chance, unless someone else beats me to it.
Waiting.
..oops:
Wulf C. Krueger says:
March 13, 2011 at 10:24 pmMuch has already been said about the author, his qualifications to talk about nuclear power plants as a food researcher and a supply chain management expert and the way even the very moderate press releases from Japan contradict his views.
Let’s take a look at the websites he recommends:
- http://www.world-nuclear-news.org: This site belongs to the “World Nuclear Association (WNA)”. So, what does Wikipedia tells us about it? “The World Nuclear Association (WNA), formerly the Uranium Institute, is an international organization that promotes nuclear power and supports the many companies that comprise the global nuclear industry.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Nuclear_Association]
So, basically, a lobbying enterprise. And we are to expect *serious*, *unbiased* information about power plants and their safety from such an organisation?
- http://bravenewclimate.com: Registered by Mr. Barry Brook from the University of Adelaide where he holds a professorship for “Climate Change & Sustainability”. As such, he’s not exactly likely to be an expert on nuclear power plants as such either. Furthermore, he’s a *strong* lobbyist for nuclear power as well but let his words speak for himself: “Fortunately, the world is passing them [Greenpeace & other environmentalists, Ed. note] by. Australia should too. It’s time to go nuclear green.” [http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/barry-brook-follow-britains-lead-on-n...]
To get a complete picture, read Greenpeace’s rebuttal to his article at http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/greenpeace-outlines-its-alternative-to-nuclear-energy/story-e6freo8c-1225796226672
- http://ansnuclearcafe.org: This website belongs to American Nuclear Society (ANS), another lobbying organisation. Let’s cite Wikipedia again: “Its main objective is to promote the advancement of science and engineering relating to the atomic nucleus.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Nuclear_Society]
Note the word “promote” – these guys *promote* nuclear power plants and that stuff. They’re (among other topics) in *marketing*. Do you *really*, *seriously* expect them to report anything *critical* on the very subject they’ve been marketing for more than 50 years?
Really, this article maybe be nice and soothing, indeed, and give you a warm fuzzy feeling but even the websites the author recommends are made by nuclear power lobbyists. But the author doesn’t only recommend reading those but advises *not* to use *independent* sources (the media as a whole don’t profit nor suffer from nuclear energy). A really bad advice from an engineer/scientist.
So, everyone who reads this should be *very* critical about the contents and make up his own mind and do his own research *and* check *different* media for their reports. Don’t just listen to Mr. Oehmen, don’t just listen to me either. Be critical, ask question, look into things yourself and whatever conclusion you come to, *never* rely on a single source.
Does he promote the industry he works for? Yeah.
That doesn't rebut a single part of his article though.
Repeat: Nothing in your reply even challenges a portion of what he wrote.
So, what is your point?
Wait. So you copied and pasted a comment from the comments on the link I provided?
Lots of nice asterisks though.
He completely left out the issue of MOX Fuel, which in addition to the fact that he is literally a paid consultant to nuclear industry, at least must raise questions to how complete, let alone credible (can you even do a relevant analysis downplaying the risks and not discussing MOX Fuel?) his analysis is (I posted more below, but here's a short version on MOX from The Economist) and another article by the Columbus Dispatch:
Japan's nuclear crisis growingColumbus Dispatch - Steven Mufson
Failure to keep adequate water levels in a pool would lead to a catastrophic fire, said nuclear experts, some of whom believe that unit 1's pool may now be outside.
"That would be like Chernobyl on steroids," said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates Inc. and a member of the public oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the Fukushima Daiichi unit 1.
Gundersen said the unit 1 pool could have as much as 20 years of spent fuel rods, which are still radioactive.
At Fukushima Daiichi unit 3, Tokyo Electric said the government ordered a halt to the pumping of seawater for a time as pressures and hydrogen levels rose in the containment structure.
Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as "mox," a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, produced from recycled material from nuclear weapons as part of a program known as "from megatons to megawatts." Anti-nuclear activists have called mox more unsafe than enriched uranium. If it escapes the reactor, plutonium even in small quantities can have much graver consequences on human health and the local environment for countless years, much longer than other radioactive materials.
The Kyodo news agency cited Tokyo Electric as saying that more than three yards of a mox nuclear-fuel rod had been left above the water level.
The Tension Mounts
- The Economist
However hard it is to come to grips with the enormous devastation, another crisis is playing out in real time: the risk of a Three-Mile-Island-style radiation leakage at a nuclear-power plant in Fukushima prefecture, 250 miles north of Tokyo. Overnight, the cooling system at the third reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant failed, and on March 13th Kyodo news agency cited the plant’s operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), as saying that three metres of a Mox nuclear-fuel rod had been left above the water level. That raises the risk of a meltdown of the core reactor, which could lead to a nuclear catastrophe. Disconcertingly, Japanese anti-nuclear campaigners have fiercely opposed the introduction into Japan of Mox fuel, which is a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, arguing, among other things, that plutonium is more unsafe than enriched uranium. The fuel was first used in the Fukushima plant last year.
"If it escapes the reactor, plutonium even in small quantities can have much graver consequences"
If... The possibility of this "if" is what MIT boy outlines.
I find it interesting that so many are cynical about a guy who is hired by other guys in his field to consult them on something he knows a great deal about.
MOX or not, the layers and processes in place will prevent it from becoming another Chernobyl. Speculation to the contrary makes for great headlines though, and many clicks.
So, as long as the containment wall or structure isn't pierced, there won't be a catastrophe?
Read the article I provided. The information is not rah rah nukes. It's about the structure and procedures in place.
there are a range of possible, but not necessarily probable, outcomes. Just because an outcome is possible does not mean it will occur.
The first is that they succeed in cooling the reactor. It's scrapped. No more radiation is released.
the worst would be some kind of steam explosion ejecting core material or spent fuel rods into the atmosphere. In between these outcomes is an actual meltdown which breaches primary containment.
Recall that TMI melted down but did not breach containment.
The nuclear reactions in the core have ceased; they are dealing with decay heat caused by radioactive elements which spit out these things called photons, which when they strike other atoms, cause increases in temperature. We call this "heat."
As these materials decay into stable isotopes, no more heat is generated. TIME is on OUR side on this one.
Portions of the core have likely already melted, but containment so far has not been lost. Even if it is, the circumstances leading to the worst-case outcome are unlikely. The most likely would be an increasingly cooler slag pile of fuel at the bottom of the containment facility.
But as long as there are no explosions which eject core or spent fuel, there is no catastrophe as is being phrased here, with all this uninhabitable Japan and EOW shit.
Thus far, there have not been any, and as time goes on, this outcome becomes less likely. But it is still possible.
Spot. On.
Thank you.
I don't understand how "time is on [their-our] side" if they lose the ability to cool the cores.
What is the rate of change in heat generation of cores of this composition that are no longer being cooled?
Edit - See? This is what I'm talking about:
Crisis Deepens at Reactor in JapanAs Exposed Fuel Rods Overheat
Because a meltdown is not a chain reaction. Once the primary containment is breached it will fall to the secondary containment where the radioactive matter is separated and continues to cool naturally over time. The assumption has always been that if cooling systems are lost, the first containment will be breached. You can call this the beginning of a meltdown, and you would be right.
But a meltdown is much different from unchecked introduction of nuclear fuel into the atmosphere via explosion, like Chernobyl.
Control rods are in place. Chain reaction is not possible, but it's extremely hot. The problem is how to release that heat.
huh? This is already worse than TMI.
If I want to know about nuclear power, I don't read the Economist.
More bloody fluff and pablum from astroturfing greenwashing sacks of shite! Everything is just fine little sheeple. Please don't panic the heard. This MIT prof crap is clearly nuke industry astroturfing, and I've seen other examples in other forums, since this situation began to develop.
Also keep in mind that in the Asian psyche, saving face is more important than telling the truth in many cases. Ask any guy with a Thai wife.
U.S. Navy assets are already out in the Pacific dodging fallout. Where is the real-time onsite radiation monitoring available online? This could be set up as easily as the air quality monitoring used on the Gulf Coast during the Deepwater Horizon. Japan is an advanced technological society. That this information is not being made available as a basic information service speaks volumes.
Be prepared, a couple years ago San Jose sky was filled with yellow dust from Mongolia dessert for few days, talking about 10000km air travel.
Remember Tsernobyl, downplaying, no panic and we have everything under control
In the current world 3 or 4 days don't count much if you are a nuclear expert and you are to be planning yields about decades ahead. Shifting to current problems will take experts some days and that is showing right now
These cores are going down but I hope for the best and if things are going down I hope the west coast of the US will escape the fall-down. This is such a raw deal
A message from J Frank Parnell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VKzqAefBVY
Saw a story on U.S. preparedness if a quake of this magnitude were to hit in an area with nuclear plants. The 2 plants featured were in California along the coast. The executive of the one plant said his plant was "sound" up to 7.0. You could tell the editors tried but failed to cut that bit of information as the audio was faded but not soon enough. Then they cut to some industry consultandt who had the stones to claim that the U.S. is better prepared than the Japanese.
Anyone remember the story of a potential quake hitting Manhatten? It was on Bloomberg, I think. There is a major fault line that is due for a significat event. Last one was 180 plus years ago.
and New Madrid, to chop USA in half....... they're all "due"....we just cross our fingers, eh? yeah.........
Cascadia subduction zone event could go to 9+. Usually hits every 250 years or so. We are sitting at 300.
just sayin'
Watch Cali for the next 10 days. and see what kind of "release" may happen....
;-)
no worries, it's like going through TSA X-Ray scan
Again - I am puzzled by all of this, but MOX fuel appears to be one of the main points of concerns.
Japan nuclear accident could be second ChernobylNow the Japanese government says it is fighting to prevent a second meltdown at No ... No 3 runs so-called MOX fuel, based on plutonium. Large said MOX was ...
Japan's nuclear crisis growingColumbus Dispatch - Steven Mufson - 8 hours ago
Japanese officials had warned earlier in the weekend that an explosion was ... Last year, unit 3 began using some reprocessed fuel known as "mox," a mixture ... ----The Tension Mounts
- The Economist
However hard it is to come to grips with the enormous devastation, another crisis is playing out in real time: the risk of a Three-Mile-Island-style radiation leakage at a nuclear-power plant in Fukushima prefecture, 250 miles north of Tokyo. Overnight, the cooling system at the third reactor at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant failed, and on March 13th Kyodo news agency cited the plant’s operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco), as saying that three metres of a Mox nuclear-fuel rod had been left above the water level. That raises the risk of a meltdown of the core reactor, which could lead to a nuclear catastrophe. Disconcertingly, Japanese anti-nuclear campaigners have fiercely opposed the introduction into Japan of Mox fuel, which is a mixture of plutonium oxide and uranium oxide, arguing, among other things, that plutonium is more unsafe than enriched uranium. The fuel was first used in the Fukushima plant last year.
..."Tokyo Electric Power Company"? Ha!
Tokyo Electric to Build US Nuclear PlantsThe no-BS info on Japan's disastrous nuclear operators
thanks for posting. I was wondering when they started using that in #3 and whether the system was originally designed for that fuel.
Is there an issue re: ability of #3 to contain things to the degree they are using a fuel for which the plant was not designed?
Could this be a reason why the blast and blast damage at #3 'looks' so much worse than #1?
Picked up an interesting tidbit on CNBC when they were discussing stocks that could potentially benefit from Japan's disaster (yeah, I know, sick bastards). Dr. J (the Options Monster guy) was talking to Melissa Lee and he said some of the companies were under the 1/4 billion market cap that we're not allowed to talk about on air.
It just got me to thinking - and doing a little research - there's about 12,000 stocks under 1/4 billion, and, since that's not an FCC or SEC rule, I'm assuming it's a management decision. So, the financial news media is really all about "big" business only, I suppose.
Actually, if that's how they roll, it does open up an opportunity for a cable channel catering to smaller firms, small business, SOHO, etc., an area that always seemed to me to be under-served.
Business opportunity, bitchez!
TSA, TSA, where is TSA, are you always at scene only after bad things happen? please put it effect immediately:
Wash every airplane arrives US from Japan. RadioScan all passengers and products from Japan.
Meanwhile I'm searching for foods good for ongoing kimo treatments.
To Fukushima-Lucky Island with love.
Talking about tragedies... Anyone here knows what happened to those SIX MILLION people in Pakistan who were made homeless during last year's heavy floods in July and August? Are their new homes being constructed already?
no chance. still swimming around. been on the news for how long? one day. nowdays, it's so funny to see people arguing about one topic over and over again, then repeating shit, forgetting what was said 5 min ago and starting the same argument again. I'm afraid that average attention span is melting fast to zero these days.
It is also funny to see the same post three times.
no chance. still swimming around. been on the news for how long? one day. nowdays, it's so funny to see people arguing about one topic over and over again, then repeating shit, forgetting what was said 5 min ago and starting the same argument again. I'm afraid that average attention span is melting fast to zero these days.
no chance. still swimming around. been on the news for how long? one day. nowdays, it's so funny to see people arguing about one topic over and over again, then repeating shit, forgetting what was said 5 min ago and starting the same argument again. I'm afraid that average attention span is melting fast to zero these days.
bastard internet. at least this will train that span for ya.
Kinda of amazing that there are no drugs on the market (yet) that protect against or counteract radiation exposure. New hope comes from India in the form of red wine:
Red Wine may help against Nuclear Toxins
It may sound frivolous to advise the unfortunate Japanese currently facing the trauma of possible radio active nuclear radiation, to drink red wine to neutralize the toxic effects but this was the refrain after the Chernobyl disaster and a study in 2008 by the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine indicative of a scientific basis of the advisory gains more relevance.
http://www.indianwineacademy.com/item_3_441.aspx
Red Wine may help against Nuclear Toxins
At very least, I suppose you'd feel better about it - especially on an empty stomach.
Like I asked trav (above), what is the rate of change in heat production in the cores once the ability to cool them is lost?
Well, the latest NYT Headline as of minutes ago is not painting great scenario, aka - it just got worse(er):
Crisis Deepens at Reactor in JapanAs Exposed Fuel Rods Overheat
Emergency operations to pump seawater into one crippled reactor failed at least temporarily, increasing the risk of a uncontrolled release of radioactive material.
Look below:
Exposed Fuel Rods Overheat, Raising Risk of Breach
They're talking "breach," right now...massive front page headline of New York Times
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/RadiationNetwork.htm
National Radiation Map, depicting environmental radiation levels across the USA, updated in real time every 3 minutes.
There is not that many monitoring station on that map. I may suggest to use this one: http://www.blackcatsystems.com/RadMap/map.html
Anyway, it's crezy we have all those station and measurments in place for all other data but when you look at radiation data, well they are hiden from the public... you wonder why:) Well in Soviet Russia nuclear reactors monitor you.
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