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The Latest From Germany: "Greece Must Solve Own Budget Problem"
Crazy pill time. More disinformation as we get it. Is Germany merely probing to see the market reaction to leaks? If the Bund collapses can they just call the whole thing off?
From Market News:
The spokesman for Germany's coalition government has denied that Berlin is close to unveiling a plan for financial aid to fiscally-troubled Greece.
The spokesman, Ulrich Wilhelm, rejected earlier reports that a Greece package was nearly a done deal, calling them "incorrect."
Earlier this evening the Financial Times Deutschland as well as some financial wire services reported that the German government is preparing a rescue package for Greece, citing sources close to the ruling coalition.The FTD report said the rescue package could include bilateral aid as well as internationally agreed action at the European Union level. It also said that Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble would inform the leadership of his party about details of the plan on Wednesday.
The paper cited its sources as saying that a European solution is sought but aid from Germany alone is not excluded.The deputy parliamentary leader of the Christian Democratic Union/Christian Social Union group, Michael Meister, confirmed to the FTD that a rescue package is being worked on in Berlin, but insisted there would be strings attached.
"If Greece obtains help, then only under strict conditions and only if the Greek government drastically reforms the state," he remarked.
Wilhelm, the government spokesman, didn't say one way or the other whether a plan was being worked on - just that no decision on it was close at hand.
However, Handelsblatt reported Wilhelm as saying that a solution to the Greek problem "now depends on the government in Athens itself solving its budget problems sustainably."
What a day for Greek CDS traders.
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I think the Germans don't mind playing this international game of chicken with the Greeks (and indirectly, the French).
Making one think you're batsh$t crazy might have its advantages, especially when you're holding all the good cards.
Greek bailout = 200 INDU points.... Cheap date
Are you guys playing cards?
"The German commitment to its export sector has enabled the country to export roughly 40% of its GDP (roughly in line with China). However, its successful hyper-competitiveness also forces other countries such as Greece to run trade deficits."
http://www.benzinga.com/market-update/118584/german-benefit-is-greek-pro...
Can anyone imagine the reaction of the other 49 to Washington bailing out California? I don't think this is going to happen, but if it does ... whew! Duck!
The reaction might be different then you think. At least I know for sure the state govs would stand up and in one united voice shout "ME TOO!!!!" and we would have the sweet moral hazard of all state govs relying on bailouts from Uncle Sugar who in turn has to rely on Zimbabwe Ben and his magical money machine.
Now if Uncle Sugar only bails out CA or just CA, IL, and NY then you will see a ton of rage.
"I know for sure the state govs would stand up and in one united voice shout "ME TOO!!!!"
Exactly, which is why Greece will not default, and will not be bailed out - a socialist government has only one purpose: to implement austerity regimes. They are convenient idiots.
Charley gets it.
Useful idiots indeed!
http://100777.com/video/bezmenov
Yophat, thanks for the link, holy crap, I'm blowed away.
Glad you liked it! Plenty more where that came from -make yourself a DVD!
http://www.projectredpill.org/freedom101.htm
"At least I know for sure the state govs would stand up and in one united voice shout "ME TOO!!!!" and we would have the sweet moral hazard of all state govs relying on bailouts from Uncle Sugar who in turn has to rely on Zimbabwe Ben and his magical money machine."
Why not? They're doing this with the present "stimulus," so if this downturn lasts into 2012, I wouldn't be surprised to see an official bailout bill (as opposed to the unofficial one currently taking place).
This is not Washington bailing out California, it's Texas bailing out California.
You have to be utterly insane to believe this.
The volume spike with the SPY drop at 12:41 NY time was lots bigger than the initial rise around 11:30 when everyone thought it was a done deal. Nervous, antsy, unbelieving
Wha? Where all the money comes from: The Printing Pre$$.
But here is some humor, although her voice gets old real quick like, it's worth hearing the crowd cheer on a miscue just after 20 seconds in. Did she even realize?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwGIz7N0ij8
Awesomeness!
Not even the printing press wants Greek debt, and the Greeks don't control the printing press in Europe anymore than California controls the printing press in America.
So how does TX deliver the money to CA exactly?
Well Stranger, Just like Callistenes of old I will give you the bad news.
One of the Euro's printing mints is in Greece.
There's a Federal Reserve bank in San Francisco as well.
You lose the shell game when you take your eye off the NY Fed.
So then the chicken shit State politicians don't have to take the bullet for raising people's taxes, but the Congress will? Oh wait, this bailout money comes from the Bailout Fairy, doesn't it?
Word in Greece is of a EUR 20 Bill Franco-German bilateral loan. I would take it seriously. Long Gold in Euro.
They better save some for Portugal and Spain ....and Ireland too
And Italy and UK and Turkey and Latvia and Estonia and Lithuiania and ...
The market is calling BS on this German bailout denial.
Gold still up 1.5%. DOW up 1.8%. Bunds yields at 3.9%, which is up.
Yeah but I mean I think we are all 99% sure a bailout is coming one way or the other. Even if Ben has to fly the Huey to Athens himself.
Cant they just sell Scorpios?
MW still has not reported any of the counter rumors. No surprise.
"Budget problem" nothing about the the "Debt problem".
A fool and their money soon part. If you actually believe this market, you are the fool so wave goodby to your money. Please dump it into The Onion's MoneyHole and be done with it... or buy gold and silver and sit back and enjoy the fireworks like many of have been doing. This market is more fun to watch than even the best prize fight in history (including ear-munching).
Agreed. I pulled everything out of equities once I finally understood what a ridiculous mess we are in/headed for. Honestly this shit is the best damn reality show ever invented.
I wasn't born in an upscale part of the country. I don't have any multi-millionaire family or friends. I dont work for a Fortune 10 company.
I was born in rurual America to a traditional agri family. I do have 1k or so acres of land and a few hundred head of cattle. I do have a lot of family and friends that have a lot of guns that are loyal to each other.
So, I sit back with popcorn and watch the shit show. I'll still trade and make money till the end. If/when it all burns to the ground, fuck'em. And if they think they will march around here kicking people out of there homes and off there land, they better bring a fucking army.
Sounds like you are better off then most, but what are you going to do when you can't get gas/diesel fuel? Got mules?
The Nazis will bail out the Greek. There is absolutely zero doubt about this.
The U.S. will bailout Greece?
kudos
Who's going to bailout the US?
1:00 pm : Conflicting reports about whether the major European nations have agreed to provide support for Greece has whipsawed stocks, but buyers continue to provide broad-based support.
Feels like the kind of "support" buyers provided in September 2008....kind of like the wheels are about to come off.
I think they are backing off because there was a possibility of a new political party forming to oppose the bailout. The working name of the party I believe is the Jägermeister Party.
What a fucked up world we have. The sources of the rumours and turmoil need to be reigned in and castrated.
More strings attached. That makes the speech credible.
Yes, Europe will leave this crisis more integrated with a number of nations losing a bit more of their sovereignty.
Nothing like the scam terror speech claiming that the EU is going to implode.
This should support the bund (aside from Forex issues for Euro).
Forcing the Greeks to face reality and solve their fiscal problems (if they can) may hurt the Euro but Germany committing to play the FED to Greece's TBTF bank is madness.
The wheels may come off due to Germany's decision (assuming it is firm) but they were going to come off anyway, postponing the inevitable is not always wise.
Ditto for US and our bankrupt states.
Time to face the music--we (almost) all were part of the band--and start working to fix our problems rather than pretend we can finesse them.
Lower standards of living. Less nanny state. Harder life for all. Good news: maybe we can stop worrying about obesity and start worrying about getting enough calories.
A change at least!
Time to face the music? Hundreds of millions are losing their pensions or facing severe reductions in beneftis as banksters make ungodly bonuses. Yeah, the invisible hand of the market is sure working as the owners of the USA jam that big red, white & blue dick up your assholes day in and day out. Wake up already! George Carlin said it best, "it's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Invisible hand? When you play hide & seek, do you close your eyes to get the desired effect of hiding? I still see you, Leo!
I don't know what invisible hand you're citing, nor does Adam Smith (I know because he squirmed in his grave when you posted that comment). Apparently you're not looking inside the American Cookie jar, where Bernanke's and Obama's finger nails are scraping at the crumbs.
Considering that these pensions were recently built off of unsustainable debt and real estate speculation, I'd think Leo would be happy to see a little reality injected into the system.
A few pension funds crashing might make people realize that it's better to manage their own retirement accounts by simply saving than relying on the market to inject monopoly money into it.
Considering that the SEC didn't go after Madoff, even after being told repeatedly how his ponzi scheme was operating, the squealing about an "invisible hand" screwing us is as hysterical as it is misinformed. "Regulations" aren't any damn good if the cop is looking the other way while the robbery takes place.
Markoupolis stated that the SEC couldn't understand
his simple calculus.
So in your example, the cop is watching the robbery,
he just isn't smart enough to realize it is a robbery
Hey Invisible Hand! I feel you in my back pocket. Let go of my wallet.
complete and total clusterf*ck. way to go, EU.
In other news on Wholesale Inventories -
Feb 9 10:00 AM Wholesale Inventories Dec -0.8% -0.3% 0.5% 1.6% 1.5%
Go Leo Go Leo !!
Haha. You guys think germany has some money. Hey guess what London has gold! And Africa has frost bite!
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=julnt19Pl8E]
Yes folks, the show has only just begun. Euro-zone and attendant European eastern states are in the pot and the heat is starting to get noticeably hotter! Next up on the card is non other than the defending world champ of debt, you guessed it. The good old U.S. of A.
Both are a collection of states within a state and only one common currency each. Will the massive printing continue? Will austerity prevail? Are bail outs to infinity in the cards? Stay tuned folks. The fun has just begun!
The EU will bail out Greece before the weekend. No choice. Baked into the cake.
The powers within the EU will then swear on a stack of Bibles that it ends with Greece.
Conditions will worsen even faster in the other troubled economies as bail-out fever spreads; gonna get some of that sweet German+French moolah, baby! In 6 months the EU will be forced to bail out (pick one: Spain|Port|Ireland|Iceland|YourMom) and will again swear on a stack of Bibles that it ends right there and we mean it this time.
In 18 months there will be riots in the streets of major capitals (including Greece, oddly enough) because the bail outs are over and those rotten so-n-so's got theirs so where is mine.
Greece was lucky; they got to go first.
The problem with moral hazard is that there is no cure other than death. But the disease plays itself out slowly, so like a lot of other things we simply ignore it.
cougar
He who loots the public coffers first loots it best. Seems to me the whole world is driven by rent seeking and moral hazard. Why do i feel like I'm living in a bad Ayn Rand novel?
My question has always been what is the endgame of this moral hazard? It will spread and grow till it can't and the system will collapse. I have to imagine the big boys on top have seen this, so one must ask why are they going through something that could topple most world governments and lead to massive global instability not seen in human history.
Much better.
-----
Anyone else see this article? Is his old already?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0330ba78-149f-11df-9ea1-00144feab49a.html?ncli...
"Why do i feel like I'm living in a bad Ayn Rand novel?"
Pretty much Atlas Shrugged. Except in reverse. All the main characters are actual corrupt and determined to suck as much wealth out of the country before leaving.
Yep, first Greece... then the rest.
Hey Greece, the country where only 15,000 taxpayers declared income of 100 thousand euros, gets the bailout? I am sure there would be all kinds of "conditions attached" which the Greeks would gladly accept then proceed immediately to arrange for more cooking of the books until the next crisis. And I can see Spain sending envoys to Athens to learn about the Goldman swap deal to hide Greek debt from the EC.
Germany bailing out greece means union of all EU countries' debt markets. Means Germans will assume the debt of all other EU states. Bend down now, altogether children of Bismark! Finally Europe gets to screw the Germans well, and maybe that is the start of the end for the Germans, who now finally become one of the club Meds. Why bother to work when others who don't gets bailed out?
The Germans LOVE bailouts. Its in their blood. Don't forget they happily pumped a trillion Euros in the former Eastern German Communist Republic. Poof. Money gone, but the Nazis are happy.
wtf. Our reunion with the DDR was no bailout, we just wanted to end that crazy shit the soviets, french and US did to our country after WW2. The money was way better invested than bailing out some banks or foreign countries... The Eu isnt democratic in any way, so no one in Europe gives a shit about it.
+1000
UK, Benelux, France and Germany will own the Club Med.
Our retirees will spend their last days and last money there and boost the economy.
Problem solved.
yay! my first +
-10
+1
It doesn't sound, from this comment, like you have much exposure to Germany. It is just the opposite, the Germans hate bailouts and love fiscal conservatism.
Those billions invested in the DDR? I live behind the Carl Zeiss Optics factory in eastern Germany. The Schott optics factory is just a little further down the road. These companies supply NASA with optics and lenses. Then there is also Jena Pharmaceuticals in the neighborhood.
I'd say those "trillions" pumped into the former DDR were a wise investment rather than "poof money gone".
As to your slur about Nazis, the NPD is less than 5% of the electorate.
I think godfader intended the term "Nazis" to be an amusing and witty way to refer to "Germans," much as you might refer to posters like godfader as "assholes."
ok, now i get it.
It's going to be pork time in Spain and Portugal (and others) if this Greece bailout goes through. Why should any political leader NOT pander to his electorate with bread and circuses? Somebody else is going to pick up the tab. Might as well spend like a sailor on shore leave and put the populace in a good mood. Happy voters are an incumbent's dream.
no way 10 european ministers from different countries find consensus on greece...
even more absurd that they do so quickly....like this week
germany itself cannot get the deal through!
they got bashed for the opel bailout, which miserably failed.
they not gonna touch this one alone.
even if they did - passing it through legislation would be impossible this week!
Germans politicians have no other choice than to try to put impossible conditions on the Greeks so that the coming collapse is not the German's fault, but that of the Greeks themselves.
Any actual bailout agreement is political suicide in Germany.
I've always been distracted by graphical illustrations of a point.
Still It would be to Goldman's advantage if Germany bailed out Greece and the debt of Spain and Portugal would increase in value.
And why would Germany want to help Goldman Sachs? Especially Considering their track record with Goldman's Landsmann during WW II.
Why indeed would anyone in the EU want to feed this Kraken... esp. since they have conspired to create the current crisis by helping Greece to hide the salami.
One would hope this point is weighing on Germany's decision to risk it resources on this fiasco.
The US Federal goevrnment "bailed out" New York and its Ivy League banker idiots. I dont see protests in the streets. Do you? Americans will be all in for bailouts. Raise and re-raise, baby. The American way.
Germany to annex Crete - this time its for real !
All those club med babes will be surprised to see all those parachutes in the sky.
I believe Greece will receive a "bail-out" However it will have to pledgeall its farmland and ports as colateral. It will also pledge the port that feeds the natural gas/oil pipeline to parts of europe. This will help facilitate and ensure continuous energy resources to europe and less dependency on Russia. This represents powerful collateral for the German loan. I dont think Germany should help the Greeks as the Greeks have repeatedly stabbed germans in the back.
Seems like the Greeks are on their way to solving the budget crisis. The government is going to raise government workers retirement age from 61 to 63 and the government workers are going to go on strike for 2 years, in compensation.
German banks have PIIGS bonds in their books. Why bail them out in the first place and them let them fail later ? They have no other choice.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw...
If anyone could explain me why US shld worry about Greece bailout?!! if it was Germany ok ...but Greece !!!!!! why this overreaction?
just stupid rumors... nothing linked to US stocks (fundamentals...)..or is there any hidden interest in it?131
just stupid rumors...
Buy the rumor. Sell the news.
They can't, it's impossible, the system is too rigged against them. Default is the only answer if the German demands are too much, which might be, ANY demands. But perhaps their leaders are weak and will allow some cuts in order to get the loan. They'll pay for that if it's the case, and it could be a case of....yes we'll do those things, money received, people riot, no we won't, germany does what?
Maybe that happens as the others start popping off. Oh what a market ride that would be.
This is how it works:
Germany Backs Greek Rescue to Save German Banks
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/02/germany-backs-greek-rescue-to-sav...
bingo - dbk has about 270 billion of greece toxic waste on their book --
so ackermann calls our communist party leader merkel .... -the same way as it happens in the states
-the same way as it happened late 2008 in western states
Germany will not bail out Greece. There may be some bilateral help but only if the Greeks do everything right. And we know they will not. Look what they did at the 2004 Olimpic Games. They spent years arguing what to do, the Games started and the staduim had no roof. Expect something like that to happen with their debt. It will be a lot of talking and no results. The Germans know it. They say they will help Greece, so the Greek debt prices will go up and the German banks will unload the Greek debt at a higher price.
Idiot news traders. This was a purely technical move.
First market makers rallied the market slowly, got enough suckers in, then sold it off. taking their cash, suckers sold, market makers bought and moved it higher when suckers were shorting the bottom. If you look at it from the order flow dynamic it makes perfect sense.
I find it interesting that sometimes what is threatened by Military conflcit is ultimately delivered by Capitilism. In both what may be happening in Germany and China it seems that this is the pattern that is developing.
Germany went to War twice in one century to create the European entity controlled by Germany. If Germany becomes the defacto guarantor of other Europenan Countries obligations it will soon become the Washington DC of Europe as all of the various European Countries join the "German Bail Out" parade. Europe can become one nation under Germany.
In China the US fretted about the Communist threat and now it seems that the Chineese own us as a result of selling us widgets in exchange for our Country. Not one bullet fired.
Shame on us.
no, too much trouble. Too much pressure. I dont want to bailout anyone else, no Bank, no Opel, no Country. Cant you just leave us alone... ;-)
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