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The Latest Gold Fraud Bombshell: Canada's Only Bullion Bank Gold Vault Is Practically Empty

Tyler Durden's picture


Continuing on the trail of exposing what is rapidly becoming one of the largest frauds in commodity markets history is the most recent interview by Eric King with GATA's Adrian Douglas, Harvey Orgen (who recently testified before the CFTC hearing) and his son, Lenny, in which the two discuss their visit to the only bullion bank vault in Canada, that of ScotiaMocatta, located at 40 King Street West in Toronto, and find the vault is practically empty. This is a relevant segue to a class action lawsuit filed against Morgan Stanley, which was settled out of court, in which it was alleged that Morgan Stanley told clients it was selling
them precious metals that they would own in full and that the company
would store, yet even despite charging storage fees was not in actual possession of the bullion. It appears that this kind of lack of physical holdings by all who claim to have gold in storage, is pervasive as the actual gold globally is held primarily in paper or electronic form. Lenny Organ who was the person to enter the vault of ScotiaMocatta, says "What shocked me was how little gold and silver they actually had." Lenny describes exactly how much (or little as the case may be) silver was available - roughly 60,000 ounces. As for gold - 210 400 oz bars, 4,000 maples, 500 eagles, 10 kilo bars, 10 one kilogram pieces of gold nugget form, which Adrian Douglas calculates as being $100 million worth, which is just one tenth of what the Royal Mint of Canada sold in 2008, or over $1 billion worth of gold. As Orgen concludes: "The game ends when the people who own all these paper obligations say enough and take physical delivery, and that's when the mess will occur."

Also note the interesting detour into what Stephan Spicer of the Central Fund Of Canada, said regarding his friend at a major bank, who wanted access to his 15,000 oz of silver, and had to wait 6-8 weeks for its to be flown in from Hong Kong.

It is funny that central bankers thought they could take the ponzi mentality of infinite dilution of all assets coupled with infinite debt issuance, as they have done to fiat money, and apply it to gold, in essence piling leverage upon leverage. They underestimated gold holders' willingness to be diluted into perpetuity - when the realization that gold owned is just 1% of what is physically deliverable, you will see the biggest bank run in history.

Link to full Eric King interview.


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Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:22 | 290725 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

physical possession is leverage.  Its like a giant short against the paper gold market.

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 09:53 | 291422 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Not really.  If the value of gold goes up 1%, UGL goes up 2% (on a daily basis).  So it's not the same thing.

I don't care about physical gold; I only care about the dollars that gold can bring me, and I care only about the vehicle that can do that most effectively.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:00 | 289815 Slothrop
Slothrop's picture

"the biggest bank run in history..."

Okay, fine. Can you give me an approximate date on that? Next week? Next month? By 2012?  What?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:05 | 289835 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Ok, we just realized it so where's the big bank run?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:36 | 290241 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You're too late.  I already have all the gold, and the silver.  Everyone left is just sort of milling about, pretending that their paper is worth something.  Maybe you can find someone delusional enough to give you cash for your gold shares, and you can find a wholesaler to get you some of the real stuff, at a steep premium of course.  Say $5000 an ounce?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:05 | 289836 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Pretty soon, Pynchon character, would be my guess.

My guess is probably of lesser value than that of others here.

Maybe my role here is to subtract value!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:57 | 290000 dumpster
dumpster's picture

better early than five minute to late

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:03 | 289825 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Who cares about gold? We got more pressing issues in Canada. Our dollar hit parity and the residential real estate bubble keeps on inflating.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:15 | 289873 Double down
Double down's picture

Just caught the news, the average single detached in Vancouver: $1 million as of last month.  

CADUSD=USDCAD  (sort of)

"Holy flurking Shnort"!  

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:25 | 289900 sheeple
sheeple's picture

holy fucking sheept

Canada haven't felt the pain because of the fucking CMHC acting like Fannie and Freddie and bundling all those MBS GUARANTEEd 100% FULLY BY YOURS TRULY CANADIAN TAX PAYERS

Is another house of card, fuck that decoupling notion

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:50 | 289984 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

DTI ratios don't matter for Canadian real estate because they have universal health care, low taxes, honest equity markets, and lots of gold in a vault somewhere - oh wait a minute...

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:20 | 289888 sheeple
sheeple's picture

Canada's fucked up, Ontario's budget deficit is in parallel universe with California. Housing price is in 1.00 disconnected with the underlying economy and for the fucking final time there is no fucking job growth and no economic expansion in Canada all this hype about decoupling and "stronger" currency are all bullshit (Don't give any arguments on Oil and Nat Gas, KCL and "other" natural resources, it's over hyped, ZERO decoupling from US economy).  


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:44 | 290442 deadparrot
deadparrot's picture

It's all a conspiracy. The Canadians don't want Americans fleeing to Canada when TSHTF, so they are setting up a crash that will make Canada look similar to the crash going on in the US. Don't want those poor Americans coming up and stealing jobs from honest Canadians...

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:31 | 289924 dumpster
dumpster's picture

the  loonie will be a go to currency, but still hold gold . and along with the swiss currency




Thu, 04/08/2010 - 12:19 | 291632 boiow
boiow's picture

wind-up merchant

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:02 | 289826 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

It would be funny as hell if only 5% of the people who supposedly hold gold in those vaults demand instant delivery. IMHO, i don think there is even that much in those vaults, not to mention the amount which was sold. Goddamn. Gold 5000 by July.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:05 | 289838 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Of course it's a ponzi. Did anyone think the massive amount of money pouring into gold could be backed by physical metal without driving the price to Pluto? The price is way too low to accurately reflect demand. Paper gold is like paper dollars, printed infinitely.

Paper gold holders are screwed, they will be forced into cash settlement.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:29 | 289917 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

I hope that this prediction doesn't work out as well as your "gold to 2000 by April" prediction.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:38 | 289947 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Or your gold to triple digits prediction?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:10 | 290031 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

LMAO !! +1000

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 12:19 | 291634 boiow
boiow's picture


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:42 | 289963 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

<yoda>Oh, young one, much to learn still you have. </yoda>


It's called blind optimism/high dosage of morphine. Not prediction. I'm not a fucking gypsy to make predictions on anything.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:19 | 290065 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Cheeky, you Bastard, I'm still waiting to be introduced to some gypsies around here.

You are much missed, my friend.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:29 | 290083 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

I bow down before you oh Holy One.

I'll be back soon.I have some health issues that kind of have me in semi-comatose state most of the time.

EDIT: You will find gypsies; just follow the smell of onion and dog shampoo and listen long into the night for the sound of Russian harmonica. 

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:45 | 290262 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh shit!  Is that what I've been hearing around the corner? shampoo?

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 20:41 | 290878 Cui Bono
Cui Bono's picture

Hey JW,  them's talkin in code-  down in the swampland this roughly translates as

"paddle faster, I hear banjo music"

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:48 | 290268 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

"I hope that this prediction doesn't work out as well as your "gold to 2000 by April" prediction."


Who is the poster that often whines about when "somebody keeps my posts from 6 weeks ago"

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:56 | 290159 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

My vote is on sometime in may.



Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:05 | 289837 waterdog
waterdog's picture

I don't know why all you fools are going on about gold. I am looking for that yellow metal. Does anyone know where I can buy some of it?


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:10 | 289859 Cookie
Cookie's picture

Come to Asia, gold store on every city block. Getting it home might be a problem!!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:20 | 290068 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:32 | 290395 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


How do you say 'I am Chumbawamba' in Chinese?  ;)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:14 | 289870 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Call the biggest and/or oldest coin shop in your city.  Tell them you want 1 oz. US Gold Eagles.

Do it quick before they run out.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:51 | 290145 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

that would be great if one could do that, unfortunately since last year none of the local shops seem to be able to keep any in stock. One wants pre-pay for probably a week delivery time and even then you're gambling.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:26 | 290379 mortiis
mortiis's picture

I find my favorite place to buy silver/gold is  The prices on that site are very competative.  On top of that go to and search something like "100 oz silver."  You should see a link to ebay in the paid adds sections (usually the FIRST link).  This has the bing cashback sign and your next ebay purchase will be 8% off from bing and 2% off from ebay bucks.  That's 10% off!  It makes it quite a deal.

Also, if you pay with paypal and a credit card via paypal then you don't have to worry about any delivery issues.  I've successfully bought around $20K in gold/silver with only one non-deliver.  It was a guy from China who canceled his account immediatly plus the auction just looked sketchy in the first place... stupid on my part.  I got a full refund with both paypal and my CC company investigating.  Everything else has been shipped extremely fast.  I now only buy from sellers in the States.

Check it out, you'll be supprised.  Make sure you have the "Microsoft Cashback 8%" on the top of your ebay page before you buy... the other catch is that it must be a "Buy it Now" auction (I think the 2% ebay bucks still works on bid auctions).

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:45 | 290412 genieous
genieous's picture


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:07 | 289844 Godspeed
Godspeed's picture

Crazy Crazy Crazy

A Friend just sent me this Link

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:24 | 290528 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I couldn't get too far into that.  My tin-foil hat is at the cleaners.  One question, which may or may not have been answered there, if they had the chance to "take down the banking system in the West" -- why didn't they just let it happen?  "They" missed a helluva good opportunity!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:11 | 290699 nuinut
nuinut's picture

I couldn't either. Tin foil hat inadequate. Where is my lead helmet?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:09 | 289850 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Ahh..I own some CEF.. price has gone up 6 cents on it since I've seen this article.  


I bought CEF so not to have to buy SLV or GLD. 


He who has the gold makes the rules.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:45 | 290261 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Or in this case, he who PRETENDS to have the gold makes the rules.

Not for too much longer, I suspect.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:26 | 290534 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

My Ruger Mini-14 says that they are just PRETEND rules...

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:21 | 290796 Hulk
Hulk's picture

A Racoon with a Mini 14, now thats scary!

Better keep the blue tics tied up....

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:09 | 289852 Argos
Argos's picture

According to everything that I've read on CEF, they buy the metals and allocate them to you.  I REALLY hope that they are legitament, seeing how I just put some retirement money into them.  You have got to trust someone.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:12 | 290190 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Apparently you have not read material from the fund itself.

You do NOT have metals allocated to you.

Release of any portion of the physical bullion holdings requires a resolution from the Board of Directors. (CEF Annual Report 10/31/2009)


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:16 | 290711 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Trust yourself. Physical gold. No counterparty.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 22:39 | 291031 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

You have got to trust someone.

Actually, no, you don't.

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 04:04 | 291228 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Trust with verification!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:10 | 289860 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

It really looks like Da Boyz are beginning to lose control. Dan Norcini recently pointed out that physical buying is now strong enough to absorb all the not-for-profit selling.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:12 | 289865 sheeple
sheeple's picture


100 to 1 and now 67 million to 60k ... calling it fractional reserve is giving them too much respect, more like fuckedup reserve

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:18 | 289882 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


You avatar is strangely attractive to me. Maybe it's those large bulbous eyes or that fluffy white tail or that slender snow white body or the startled expression on your face that might indicate you were recently the recipient of a good old fashioned ass reaming and looking for more.

Whatever it is, please call me. :>)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:26 | 289907 sheeple
sheeple's picture

i thought i changed to a "sheared" version, ZH didnt' update ?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:32 | 289927 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

No no, you have a WONDERFUL coat of wool, just sooo pretty. You look beautiful. Come here little sheeple, come on over here. CD just wants to pet your pretty little head, that's all.

What? No, this isn't K-Y, it's a special cream to make your coat nice and shiny. Come on little fella. :>)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:57 | 290001 Hulk
Hulk's picture

OK you two, get a room!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:00 | 290014 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

He won't call me. He's too busy with Morgan Stanley.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:56 | 289997 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Cognitive Dissonance


but very funny

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:11 | 290324 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


I'm not that way, not that there's anything wrong with that. :>)

Actually the posts were an anology of how the "people" are being treated by various powers that be, but I wonder how many people got it.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:32 | 290552 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Gold is so shiny, and heavy, and feels great in my hand.

It goes both ways, CD.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:40 | 290562 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Sorry, I just want to make sure I'm not missing something here with your comment.

Are you saying that people who own Gold can also be wrong or delusional or mislead? If so, I agree.

It's all an illusion, everything. No matter where I stand within the Matrix, I still have the perspective the Matrix fosters upon me simply by being inside the Matrix. All I see is the Matrix no matter where I stand.

If that's not what you're saying I would like to understand. When I don't "get" something it usually means I have more unlearning to do. :>)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:25 | 290631 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You got it perfectly, CD.  It was just my own self-reflective reminder to myself to keep a cool head and be practical.  We can all be wooed into a state of trance and gold is the ultimate hypnotic!  Even Neo questioned what was, in fact, reality.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:22 | 290723 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The funny thing is that this kind of thinking is so absolutely liberating. Yet when the average person encounters it, they reject it immediately because the Matrix has taught them one absolute. The Matrix is real. Thus anything questioning the Matrix is wrong and anyone questioning it is crazy.

I try to remember that in order to build, I must first deconstruct what I think I know in order to (re)construct what really is. The illusion of the Matrix is that by adding you gain more. For example, more scientific knowledge means more understanding of the world. What it really means is further down the wrong path. Science is simply one method by which you can describe what you think you see, your "reality". Religion is another way to describe what you think you see. And so on.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:07 | 290774 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You'll get no argument from me, CD.  One caution: Don't complicate what's not complex.  Well, maybe one more caution:  From the one of the cognoscenti, don't forget Rule 62.  Well, maybe just one more while I'm at it:  Beware cognitive bias!  (That caution being well known to you -- hat tip to your name.)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:41 | 290812 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I agree about the trap of complexity. But the scoundrels, liars and thieves hide behind complexity as do we in order to not be responsible or to simply remain in denial.

People want to believe denial is an on/off switch. You either are in (total) denial or you are not. If you are, you know nothing. If you know just a little, you can't be in denial because you know something. This is silly. The deeper the denial, the more layers and complexity of the denial. Often we will admit to part of the web in order to deny the rest.

Nuff said.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:12 | 289868 Cookie
Cookie's picture

The Swiss bank ZKB has gold & silver ETF's which will g'tee delivery of the physical bullion anywhere you want. Also ranked recently as the 4th safest bank in the world.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:56 | 290763 delacroix
delacroix's picture

what about perth mint accounts?

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 04:07 | 291232 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Trust with verification.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:16 | 289875 Godspeed
Godspeed's picture

Crazy Crazy Crazy

A friend just sent me this Link.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:24 | 289899 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I'm sorry sir, the only physical metal we have left for sale is this single 1oz. maple leaf, now if you would like to buy some paper gold we have a lot of that for sale.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:27 | 289901 stevegee58
stevegee58's picture

I did my own calculations one time of how much physical gold has actually been mined since the dawn of time.

It's only about 10 billion (i.e. 10^9) ounces, worth about $10 trillion (10^13).

Here's how I calculated it:

Several sites show world gold production at around 50 million ounces per year. So if you say that it's been mined at that rate for the last 200 years (a high estimate), you'd get 10 billion ounces total. 10 billion x about $1000 = $10 trilion.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:32 | 289929 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

But you can't equate 2010 gold production to 1800 gold production.

There have been some technological advances since then.  People used to use pick axes and pan for gold and stuff.  We don't really see that now.  50 million ounces is only the CURRENT rate of extraction.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:40 | 289944 stevegee58
stevegee58's picture

Right, that's why I said it was a high estimate.  Plus I cut it off at 200 years.  Who knows how much gold was mined by the Incas and Aztecs?

My main point was that the amount of actual gold you can lay your hands on is a finite amount.  What's more, it's not enough to base a currency on and there are probably more obligations written against this gold than what physically exists.

All these folks calling for a return to a gold-based currency don't understand that there isn't enough gold in the world to pull it off.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:44 | 289969 dumpster
dumpster's picture

sure their is . just negotiate a price .  

that argument about not enough gold is a poor excuse for thinking past the fifth grade

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:46 | 289972 stevegee58
stevegee58's picture

You're not a nice person. :P

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:39 | 290113 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

He is right though, gold is infinitely fractional. You are still stuck thinking in terms of dollars. Think of it this way, a loaf of bread used to be 4 cents, not its about 4 dollars. You really think that a loaf of breed is worth 100x what it was 90 years ago because the population increased? If the population increased under a currency that was realitively fixed in amount, like gold, the price would actually decrease over time.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:51 | 290758 dumpster
dumpster's picture

sorry . amend the remark  ,, the 6th grade

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:25 | 290801 Hulk
Hulk's picture

You're hurting people's feelings Dumpster.

You need to be more sssssssensssitive...


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:31 | 290806 dumpster
dumpster's picture


i feel for these people ,  lol

comma , period ....

when the horse is in the mud . to pull um out , you get a large sludge hammer , 

dont be sensitive just get out of the mud . you will love me in the morning



Wed, 04/07/2010 - 22:02 | 290987 Hulk
Hulk's picture

you will love me in the morning

LOL, not in this lifetime Dumpster...

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 21:09 | 290920 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Dear Sir,

What are we supposed to do, back a currentsea with goats milk and grass seed?  Maybe used cooking oil and virgins?  We are learning (some of us have LEARNED) a currentsea has to be backed by something, or else it is too easily manipulated.  I know it will be unfair to the rest of the world that the US, along with the other "1st" world countries have the majority of the gold, but what do you expect us to do?  Not use it?  We will use it.  America will backstop its currentsea with gold.  I know, selfish, selfish...but what do you expect.  Them cards don lie!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:44 | 290574 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You nailed it, Dumpster. Old argument, and getting very tired.

Read up:

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:55 | 290762 dumpster
dumpster's picture

10-4 mr rocky ,  

its one of those known unknowns , 

not enough gold ,

of course when you hit um with price the room goes quit, . thinking in abstract is not kind to the 2 for one dollar boys at macdonald  

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:12 | 290780 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

And, an ounce of gold can be beat to a thinness that would cover a football field.  Just what part of "divisible" do they not understand?  Price me an gold Eagle ounce at $6,000,000 or a vial of flakes for $29.95 (Special this week only!).  It's all relative.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:16 | 290788 velobabe
velobabe's picture

psst, went to my local 'hood coin shop and started my collection today. thanks for all the advice in this cave, guyz. did what you said with the eagles but couldn't resist the indian heads but went completely ballistic other the panda and the bamboo. i am going to really enjoy my newest reserve. am going to research or ask here this, i fell in love with the panda and they have some old one's that are worth $80.00 does one go that way? i am an artist and paint chinese calligraphy and bamboo, so saw the beauty of the craftsman design on the coins. do you buy for art or for the bank? kiss kiss


ps it is really challenging for me to find reply's if any, it can sometimes be a maze in here when so many postings. oh well life is tough†

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 20:13 | 290842 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Great for you velobabe, glad you made the leap.Nice to hold in your hands, isn't it? Probably the first asset you have ever owned with absolutely no counterparty risk...

BTW, due to your presence (and others), I do not believe this can be called a man cave any longer....

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 20:35 | 290866 nuinut
nuinut's picture

You are buying it for bullion content only. Don't get distracted. Real wealth, in your hand.

Congrats on your decision.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 21:21 | 290934 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

XO Babe, you nailed it.  My advice, diversify with everything.  Silver Eagles and Maples...Gold Philharmonics and Pandas.  Buy one ounce gold pieces, and half ounce gold pieces.  Buy a fishing rod, and some canned salmon.  Have acess to a well, and a water filtration system.  You know? 

The bank will not care about their artistic merit, only intrinsic value.  However, maybe when you are buying more land for your vineyards in a few years, people will appreciate the Panda.  Oh, and not to be patronizing, but, do not put them in the bank.  Keep them hidden in a safe place.  And do not tell anyone outside of the family.  Glad you see us as family.  :) 

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 21:53 | 290963 velobabe
velobabe's picture

no i don't do salmon don't eat animals. kiss kiss babe.

the panda, god my heart is so with the panda.

i mean the american indian head is really symbolic but the PANDA†

the panda visual brings the tear to my eye that the american indian had in a long ago commercial about trash. well actually in the big picture, i think the asians are the origin of native american indian descent. i think across the bering straits, must of been crazy back in that day. just my 2¢s

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 22:00 | 290984 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Don't forget to buy a round for the cave, er I mean house, velobabe!

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 04:14 | 291237 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Lust at the first touch. Had a girlfriend like that once.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:31 | 290233 trav7777
trav7777's picture

High estimate??

You're aware gold production peaked in 2000, right?

Production has fallen since...inexorably.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 21:23 | 290937 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I thought it peaked in the mid '90s, but we are on the same page.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:15 | 290465 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

Your statement is false, and has been well refuted by Austrian School economists.  Murry Rothbard might be a worthwhile study?  Gold (real money) is such a blessing to a society. Study what it did for the US. Prices in general slowly decline as technology advances.  There is a tremendous stimulus to save (real capitalism not the phony stuff that passes for it today).  And the free market moves that stored capital where it will do the most good instead of going down the rathole of idiot boondoggle bailouts to money black holes. Extra benefit, goverment can't spend when ever it wants to. Also check out D'Francisco speech on real money (gold) penned by Ayn Rand. One of the best statements of gold's merit in existence. And will clear up your thinking fast if you let it:



"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world? You are."

Check it out!

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 00:37 | 291150 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Yes there is, but the price of Gold has to go up in dollar terms, and most people will be using 1 gram amounts, and/or 14 carat.

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 04:09 | 291234 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

A loaf of bread is 10grams of gold in africa. I think that's the price at least.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:42 | 289960 dumpster
dumpster's picture

master bates sorry .. your as stupid as a jackass on gold ,'

you may have some redeeming features ,  but bashing gold aint one of them,

where does all this insight about gold come from.

some of the brightest minds have laid out the case for gold . the why, the how, it production ability , and you come up with some garbage analysis about the mining of gold ,

production is going down world wide . even with the sans pix and shovel

go do some homework  .. then try to get a job lol  

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 21:02 | 290909 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Damn it man, stick to what you are good at and rip on the military industrial complex, overpriced stocks, misappropriated taxes, and the looting of pensions.  yOU COULD BAT 1000, BUT YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT GOLD...WHY mb, WHY?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:11 | 291061 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

Damn it man, stick to what you are good at...

Many consider gold to be a barometer of inflation and/or future inflationary risks.  MB is my barometer on the gold price.  As long as he's doing his thing and having no clue, its still a good time to load up on more.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:25 | 291075 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You are right.  MB, do what you do buddy!  For whatever the fuck it means ;)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:50 | 291108 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

I used to think he was purposefully being dense to get a rise out of people, but now I realize he's just confused and has obviously been programmed very well.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:37 | 289943 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Yes, but how much was in circulation prior to 1810?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:38 | 289946 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I do not have the exact info on hand, but I believe the total supply of worldwide gold is something on the order of 6,000,000,000 ozs.  Approx. 1 oz. for each person on earth.  The info is out there on the 'Net.

Got (physical) gold?

Just saw it popped through $1150.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:23 | 290210 jory
jory's picture

Hurry Goldbugs.  Buy more Gold now.  Sheeple lining up quickly.



Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:05 | 290771 delacroix
delacroix's picture

you would think, there would be more silver, than gold, but you would be wrong. not enough oz's for everyone, to have one, and getting used up fast. the historic pricing ratio, will catch up with reality, some day. silver, should perform, better than gold IMO

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:53 | 289993 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Gold hasnt existed for only 200 years.. That stuffs been bartered with since the BC days!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:18 | 290063 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture'd get 10 billion ounces total.

I'd put the number closer to half that but I have no conclusive proof.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:31 | 289923 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Better call James Bond. Goldfinger has struck, successfully this time.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:33 | 289931 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Jim Sinclair (paraphrased): "Gold’s window is still open here because those that know what is coming are still accumulating. Expect it to be closed by year end. That means if you don’t have any, don’t expect to be able to get any."

We're coming up on the end of the line.  Last stop!  Enjoy the rest of the ride.  It'll be over sooner than you think.


I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:37 | 289942 dumpster
dumpster's picture

more sinclair

To balance the US balance sheet, gold would have to go to insane numbers. The mechanism is in place to drive gold to incredible numbers.


or take the unemployed 30 year old yammer opinion /

who has not two clues . looking for what a clue is lol


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:42 | 289964 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

How would that balance the US balance sheet?  Does the federal government actually have enough gold for that to work?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:47 | 289979 dumpster
dumpster's picture

if the balance sheet of the government is 10 trillion .. then what ever gold is avalibel .. would be the balance sheet divided by the gold. whatever the amount .

so there is enough gold .. just the price of gold will rise

governments will be buyers of all the gold .

with out gold the trading between nations would not happen.

even in a fractional type gold backing gold will explode in price .

master bates will be eating his hat.





Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:43 | 290124 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Ummmmm  ...  what?



Just no.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:20 | 290202 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Dumpster added a few double commas and extra spaces between periods to the LOG equation to come up with that illusion.

For a guy that slams others for having a Grade 5 education for not being a gold bug, your grammar dumpster is, without question, the worst I have ever seen on all the financial blogs I peruse.  Outright atrocious.  Fix your own kitchen before spewing the very thing you are incapable of toward everyone else.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:06 | 290303 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Really?  That's the best you have?  What about the content of his comment?  Do you have anything stupid to say about his correct description of how gold will be re-valued before this is all over?

Economics is simple, people.  You finance types have all been trained (like monkeys) to think things are more complex than Supply/Demand.  It isn't.

Here, let's re-train you:

Supply = what's available for consumption

Demand = consumption

When supply is low, and demand is high, price is high.

When supply is high, and demand is low, price is low.

Everything else can be derived from that.

You're welcome.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:18 | 290345 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

There you have it folks.  Straight from the horses mouth.

House prices rose because we had limited supply.  The MBS and CDS markets were born of the Japan style "limited land" we have in the US, so house prices rose.  It's simple... Chumba says so.


Perhaps some thought next time might save you some embarrassment, dude.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:28 | 290381 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Look, I'll be nice and try harder to educate you since you sincerely don't seem capable of inference.  I know, it's a complex skill to acquire, even for fully evolved modern hominids.

When demand is high, price is high.  The demand for houses rose because the supply of dollars (money) was elevated.  Therefore, the price of houses went up to match the supply/demand curve of dollars to houses.

In hindsight, this is perhaps too broad a leap for neophytes.  Next time I'll try not to post mini-tutorials.  There's simply no substitute for long-winded discourse when it comes to matters of finance.  I should know that by now.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:33 | 290397 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh, and again, you're welcome.

And I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:55 | 290467 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Yes thank you, for showing that you stumbled in explaining your own flawed economic analogy.


So let me get this straight....  We never had a shortage of houses, but prices still rose cuz........ I'm a neophite?


Just stick to calling everyone Bitches.  You don't look like as much of an idiot then.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:13 | 290614 boiow
boiow's picture

in relation to the supply of money there was a shortage of houses.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 20:42 | 290880 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

No, I think he said...

"When demand is high, price is high.  The demand for houses rose because the supply of dollars (money) was elevated.  Therefore, the price of houses went up to match the supply/demand curve of dollars to houses."

Thu, 04/08/2010 - 00:43 | 291159 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

I'll try splaining it so you can understand.


1.  Banks lowered standards allowing more people to qualify for bigger loans

2.  step 1 resulted in more people being able to afford houses increasing demand

3.  step resulted in increased prices.


Rinse and repeat -  see very simple

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:25 | 291074 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. 

Chumba, while I applaud the attempt, some actions are futile.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:16 | 290560 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

+1 Chum

And Gov. added it's own poison on top to game the demand even higher where ultimately a corpse could qualify for that nice fiat currency pouring from the happy first users of it while they fully hedged their positions. America snooze, America loose!

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:46 | 290751 nuinut
nuinut's picture

I think this dispute may be clarified by a quick primer on the topic of Freegold, which is, I believe, the concept both dumpster and Chumba were alluding to (in their own unique styles), and a very basic description of which may be found here:

Freegold theory: the massive revaluation of gold after the collapse of paper assets

This synopsis is based upon the thoughts of FOFOA, whose posts at explain, in great depth, how and why this may have been anticipated by the big boys for decades now.

A good recent post to give one a more detailed overview might be this one:  Synthesis



Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:57 | 290581 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Chumba did not bring up the subject of the pricing of housing, you did.  Re-read what he said about the supply of money.  It is a correct analysis.  Supply/demand issues don't really relate to housing in the broad sense, but inflated money supplies and manipulated interest rates do.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:21 | 290354 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


Please stop playing with your food and just eat.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:31 | 290390 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture


Thu, 04/08/2010 - 07:30 | 291287 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Is that a vertical smile?

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 19:08 | 290776 dumpster
dumpster's picture

nope =1004

take your red pencil out of that funny plastic holder on your polyestershirt.. do the little check marks .. then put it back with all those other pencils of intolerance ,

this is not a choice English lesson no doubt

i take your for a grade 14 in government employ.. in  a dead end job or its equivalent in the public trough

with nothing better to do than kick your dog

you explain how a poster can come up with the idea their is not enough gold to cover the problem .

a puzzle for sure .. with all the dandy tap dancing these illiterate gold people are spueing forth


Thu, 04/08/2010 - 11:40 | 291572 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


If the Ron Paul stuttered heavily I'd still pay attention.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 15:32 | 290388 Blindweb
Blindweb's picture

I am walking down a road at 1 mile/hour.  The road is 3 miles long.  How do I reach the end of the road in 10 minutes? 


Google says that's 6th grade math.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:09 | 290492 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

I would expect a bright 1st grader to be able to answer that.  But I expect the average voter cannot.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:09 | 290583 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

Suggest ZH up the new posters entrance exam dificulty to at least 6th grade level. We should let the 3rd graders educate the 1st graders elsewhere, time is short. Of course maybe Google should qualify: private schooler 6th grader / home schooler 4th grader =  public schooler community college = keynsian econ. masters degree = Gov employee/average major party voter - PHD  etc....

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:14 | 290615 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

I like your list of equivalence.  I think it's fairly accurate.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 17:20 | 290624 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

I'm just glad the exam is a math problem. My mercury damaged brain can't spell worth a dam (difficulty not dificulty)

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 16:50 | 290578 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Sorry to break it to you, but you are missing more than a link on the gold situation.  Do some reading.  You are battling against previously settled conclusions.  What's next?  "You can't eat gold!"?  Gimme a break.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:42 | 289961 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Not much time to buy gold.  Looks like in the end you & Gordon, the 2 biggest trumpeters will be right before long.

'Bout time you showed up Chumba!

Let's see: nope, only got $1000 in my wallet, will have to by the ATM to get some money to get my (last?) ounce.  Assuming the ATM is still working....  LOL.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:53 | 291112 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

get the Ag instead then

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:53 | 290275 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Have to agree. Ground coming up fast now, no emergency chute.......................

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:42 | 289954 StuntPope
StuntPope's picture

CEF is not the only Canadian bullion fund, Brompton Funds also started one:


Not sure if Brompton uses the same bullion bank for storage but they list the serial numbers of each bar they count in inventory.

I noticed a few months ago that Brompton was trading at a discount to NAV while CEF was trading at a premium, so I switched all my CEF into PBU. Glad I did now.



Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:52 | 290274 Jessica6
Jessica6's picture

Brompton stores their gold at Scotia.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:45 | 289966 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Well, unfortunately I get another opportunity to say "I told you so":

Physical Gold in your personal possession is the only thing that will survive the coming financial Armageddon. What we are witnessing right now is nothing but the calm before the storm. Keen observers are hearing rumblings beneath the ground signaling an imminent volcanic eruption. Once it blows it will be too late to take action. Trading paper markets for paper gains is like picking up pennies in front of the steamroller. It’s time to stop trading and just buy the physical metal. The window of opportunity to convert your casino chips (fiat money) into real money, i.e. Gold, is getting smaller by the hour. He who panics first, panics best.

I know you all must be tired of me repeating myself but I will keep doing it until each and every one of you TAKES PHYSICAL DELIVERY. The system is corrupt to the core and rotten beyond belief.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:01 | 290015 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Each person who reads your article, Gordon, gets about the best advice available.

Now that Gordon & Chumba have entered the arena, I can finally go by my ATM to top-off my wallet and buy 1 more oz.

My last oz?

ATM working?

Things are moving real fast it seems today.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 13:07 | 290026 Hulk
Hulk's picture

These are just little "I told you so's" The big "I told you so" is yet to come. Not tired of the reminders keep em up, each one is going to save someone's ass eventually. There will come the day when the big "I told you so" will be issued and then its head for the hills....lock and load...Katy bar the door...

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:23 | 290209 truont
truont's picture

+1.  Repetition is the key to learning.


Wed, 04/07/2010 - 18:54 | 290761 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

There will be more oppurtunities for you.  Many, many more.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 23:57 | 291115 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

Yes! Correct-things of value to humanity have been counterfeited, derivitized and hoarded by the alpha classes by these Keynesian schmuckbags. Keynes should have his own scam-like Ponzi. Like,"It's a Keynes Scheme."

Fraudulently create money supply, give fake credit to the masses because they deserve it, and get them into debt slavery for 50 years.

Debt=money. Free money(debt) to the masses who get screwed when deflation destroyes the capitalist,lenders system.

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:50 | 289985 Camtender
Camtender's picture

Where is Gordon Gekko??????????

Wed, 04/07/2010 - 12:53 | 289992 Camtender
Camtender's picture

In Gordon we Trust!

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