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Latest Update On Debt Ceiling Melodrama
Time for the hourly update on the Congressional soap. The Hill reports that "Congressional Democratic leaders are headed back to the White House on Wednesday for more talks on raising the debt ceiling. White House press secretary Jay Carney announced House and Senate Democratic would meet with Obama at the White House at 2:50 p.m. Obama called Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Tuesday night." It adds that after the release of a new proposal Tuesday by the bipartisan Senate Gang of Six, Obama told reporters it was time for leaders to "talk turkey" and work to reach a deal. And while there has been a recent increase in voices against the $3.7 trillion "plan", the fate of the McConnell fall back plan, which as expected is the most likely to pass as it is completely toothless, is also looking shaky:"House Democratic leaders are attacking Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) debt-ceiling fallback plan, characterizing it as a political ruse intended to scapegoat Democrats and taint them at the polls. “I’m not a fan of the McConnell proposal,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen (Md.), the senior Democrat on the House Budget Committee, said Tuesday during a press briefing in the Capitol. “It’s designed to protect mostly Republican members of Congress from taking responsibility for votes that they’ve already made." How this plan makes sense in light of Obama's earlier statement that the House would not compromise a debt ceiling plan based on one time increases to the limit, without a long-term debt ceiling extension is unclear, nor is it clear how any of these plans which are simply window dressing will pass muster from the rating agencies, where even Fitch earlier announced any plan would have to be comprehensive for no downgrade of the US to occur. Translated: the CRAs need more stuffing for the Christmas stockings.
The Hill has more on this melodrama:
The McConnell plan was intended to be a fallback for avoiding a default. But since lawmakers missed the president’s deadline for presenting a plan over the weekend, concerns have grown that Congress will not have enough time to negotiate and vote on a package by Aug. 2, when the Treasury Dept. projects the U.S. will default on its debt.
On Tuesday, the bipartisan Gang of Six senators released a $3.7 trillion deficit-reduction plan. The proposal was met with quick support from both Republican and Democratic senators. President Obama praised the proposal as “good news” and said it was “broadly consistent” with the approach he had urged in negotiations.
Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), a member of the Gang, to brief members of the New Democrats in the House about the plan Wednesday.
But even Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.), a member of the Gang of Six, has conceded that the proposal cannot be turned into legislation and scored by the Congressional Budget Office by Aug. 2. Van Hollen on Wednesday joined Durbin in questioning whether there was enough time to implement the plan and suggested it could only be approved if the debt-ceiling were increased for a short period to give lawmakers more time to score and turn the Gang of Six plan into legislation.
The McConnell-Reid option will likely need to win Democratic support to make it through the House.
Sure enough the political horse trading is now back:
The proposal drew howls of criticism from many conservative groups that hoped the Republicans would use the must-pass debt-ceiling vote as leverage to exact trillions of dollars in federal spending cuts. The rebuke from the right almost certainly foreshadows a number of House Republican defections, likely leaving GOP leaders reliant on some Democrats to pass the bill.
House Democrats, however, are suspicious of McConnell’s motives.
“It’s somewhat clever of Mr. McConnell to, in effect, try to transfer all responsibility [for raising the debt limit] … to the president of the United States, solo,” Rep. Steny Hoyer (Md.), the House Democratic whip, told reporters Tuesday.
And so forth. Two more days until July 22 after which we enter legislative limbo and the 30 Year will be reacquainted with gravity once again.
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Its a Dog & Pony Show. Watch the right hand while the left reaches further into your backpocket!
Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "Selling Gold You Don't Have":
http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org
"It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
"It would be wise to understand the repercussions of this debt not being paid back. Those most affected will obviously be those who lent the most money to Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. It turns out that the governments of Europe have been lending each other the money (that’s right, lending money they don’t have, to their also-broke neighbors, it would land a normal person in jail)! And not only that, financial institutions across Europe have loaded up on the stuff (government debt).
So that means stay away from government debt and don’t touch bank stocks until after the dust has settled. Last but not least, currency exchange rates will be affected. So if you have large savings denominated in either US dollars or Euros it would be wise to reconsider that position. It is tough to predict how exchange rates will change, because both the Euro and the US dollar will both be greatly devalued 2-3 years from now, but the timing, order and magnitude of the moves that will get them there are not knowable at this point in time.
Anecdotally, the CRI was started at the start of 2011. At that time the price of gold was $1364/ounce, and today, even after a sharp decline in the last 24 hours, gold is at $1591. Thats a 16% increase! Or a 16% devaluation in the value/purchasing power of the US dollar, if you look at it that way (as we at the CRI do)."
Really dude? Be the first one to comment just to pimp your shitty little ZH wannabe website?
We're intractably screwed no matter what they do or don't do, and we know it won't be the right thing, anyways.
It isn't just us in the U.S. that are screwed - the globe is screwed.
If an honest mathematician came forward, he'd clearly state that the debt crisis is unfixable. Wait! A mathematician who is also an economist - two of them, in fact (Laurence Kotlikoff and David M. Walker) - have done just that!
Check out minute 23 onward of this speech given by Michael Burry, linked by ZHer kridkrid (which is one of the reasons this place is so fantastic; you won't see TRUTH anywhere else) in another thread:
Thank you for linking that +1000.
Everyone here should watch at least from minute 23 onward - it's epic, amazing and a keeper (about QE, Bernanke's REASON for meddling, public unions, debt and the gravity of our situation).
Einstein would know...his own ponzi-scheming tribe has been at it for 3,500 years.
Doesn't matter bank stocks are up on because as Geithner stated the complex is safe. Tomorrow Buffet will release an editorial in the NYT imploring the retail yo yo to buy stocks once again - just like BLK's Fink warned this am the dumb money is making a big mistake pulling equity allocations - reiterating dolldo CNBC chest pounding
America's national debt: Do I hear $202 trillion? | The Economist
How is it possible to sit on fat ass and wait for the Government to get anything DONE?
Christ almighty, if my crew sat around waiting for me or my boss, we all would be fired for wasting the clock.
it really is simply disgusting.
If these past elections don't solidify into stone the regulatory capture of both political parties, there really is no hope for this country.
The Tea Party, inspired by Ron Paul, started as an organic movement independent of political party association with a true message of sound money, limited government, End the FED, End the Wars, etc. but was quickly hijacked by the Neo-Cons in the Republican party and Fox News.
Unless you have the backing of a fascist billionaire overlords, like Soros on the left, Kock brothers on the right. You cannot get your message in the MSM or front & center in any political debates.
It really does feel hopeless. Thus, I am extremlly pessemistic about the future of this nation.
I am extremely optimistic about the future of this nation because of people like you baby. Think about it - you are dropping dimes on Zero Hedge and you are only 21. You have a bright future.
Thanks, but I am not 21 yet.
but will be in four days!!
If Fight Club were real I'd buy first round for every ZHer lol
hippo birdies two ewes, b_B!
say hi 2 jack 4 everybody! this is from my salad daze: ?Jethro Tull - Living In The Past 1969? - YouTube
+1. Michelle Bachmann is the new "leader" of the Tea Party. She is leading the polls in Iowa. Michelle Bachmann has had two jobs outside of the home. #1 LLM in taxation IRS agent. #2 Congressperson. Michelle's husband has a corporation with a sophisticated finance/tax structure that tries to make people "not gay".
In the presidential debate, Ron Paul said (para) "the state should not recognize, subsidize or punish the institution of marriage. That is between consenting adults and thier ethos/religion/God. Civil Unions can handle the nessecary aspects of household law" ... The MSM calls him crazy.
Capture indeed. Very astute young person!
Agreed on Bachmann
hard to believe a little over a year ago she was hosting Ron Paul at an event in Minnesota heaping praise on the congressman leading the crowd to believe she endorsed his positions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7G_pey51A8
A year later she sells out on the principels of individual liberty by voting on the renewel of the Patriot Act.
No worry on Michelle B...she's a flash in the pan; word's already out she's prone to migraines [totally under control, per Her Ladyship], and we already know about her hubby (ha!)...can't wait to see the next nugget(s). Tis a shame she's a sell-out, true, but - hey - she's a politician, right?
What I wanna know is WTF does it prove to "run" for POTUS? Book deals, PR, extra payola? Why do these chumps do it? Gotta be a payoff.
stick around. Someone has to pick up the pieces.
stick around. Someone has to pick up the pieces.
Obama will have money printing machines delivered to the White House, him and the first lady will single handily print money for the good of the country to avoid default.
What, return the money creation power to the actual government? Rothschild would never stand for that.
+1 shekel
It looks like this week will see no deal. So gravity it is.
Do you reckon? It is a bit coincidental that the crucial EU summit is happening simultaneously. Would they seriously risk both failing, and a Nash equilibrium of outright chaos?
*Gets popcorn* -That I would like to see!
I'd bet in one of them failing while propping up the other rather than both failing. Which one 'wins' is a matter of chance.
For the massive dislocation we may see there's no other instrument available in quantities other than EUR or USD. One may park in precious metals before the event but not while it is happening. And I would not consider chinese assests while not being a chinese national since they may claim it back as you paid for it with 'worthless paper'.
We'll see. They need a deal this week. They'll get one next week methinks. When they get back to the markets is when it gets... er... how should I say... interesting.
Eurozone is buying time for this Eurobond plan.--------Epic Fail.
The great Debt Sealing Mellow Drama.
Up and down the POTUSmack they ran, book in hand and agenda on the sly, from pillar to host, calling Bobby from K street, In the Lobby of the Watergate, running late, white house, what a louse, douse, the flames, red headed dames, Rue and no so pert anymore, Ding Ding, it's a Pie, in the Sky, no less, or more...
is it a ceiling, or is it a floor?
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/value-vs-price/
This is all so absurd. Need to put them all in a time out and take away their snack. I have one answer for all this.... 1,600 and 40. Stay tuned.
Slippery finger, sorry.
We must assist, the president will start going through withdrawal if he can't spend money.
Siegniorage, Mister President... lest you be two sides of the same one party tea coin we have today. Perpetuating another big lie for the purpose of furthering the Shock Doctrine upon the masses.
Throw all these bums out!
There are only two rules:
1) Only FY 2012 spending matters. Not ten year cuts. Not tax increases. Only FY 2012 spending cuts. Increase taxes if you want, but only FY2012 spending cuts matter.
2) If cubicles do not empty, then you did not cut.
+ and +
http://i.imgur.com/Z2x5r.jpg
Everyone better check their preps, martial law is a go.
You're such a tease!
Homeland Security "Special Response Team" in front of a K-Mart lol
Maybe they are gearing up for all of the shoppers getting ready to mob the stores for "back to school" season..........wait, what's that? The consumer is dead?
What pray tell could be the purpose of said vehicle then?
No, no, no. There could never be food riots in the US. Our stores are stocked deep enough to last a whole 3 days. They wouldn't be prepping for that.
/sarc
This melodrama is starting to get entertaining...
So, who is gonna flinch first and pee their pants?
All TPTB have to do is put a 15% tax on personal funds wired to say India, China or Mexico et al. and they'll have enough increase in revenue to end the deficit, along with a little theft from Social Security suckers...
Time for a little payback from all those H1B/L1 visa zombies!
So the turkeys are gathering to "talk turkey" with the "head turkey" of the flock. Looks like chicken feed for us dumb clucks again...
We are having another austrian moment of non-reality. Not only do tax cuts pay for themselves but econ collapse is even better.
Does anyone actually believe the debt ceiling won't get moved? July 22 or no?
Tyler and the tea party?
Can you hum a few bars for me?
It was an acid rock group from a few decades back, right?
What would you think if I sang out of tune
Would you stand up and walk out on me
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song
And I'll try not to sing out of key
--or how 'bout?--
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break
And the water gonna come in, have no place to stay
Oh cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do no good
Oh cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do no good
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to lose
Funny, the Dems being "suspicious" of putting everything in the hands of the "Democrat" POTUS!
Looks like they're starting to recognize that he's not one of them.
And all of "them" are not one of us.
I hear ya! We're all just wave functions, though, and there are all those moments when intersections happen. It's the means by which we each organize our individual and group phenomenological worlds. Too bad the frequency of real intersection decays so rapidly with distance from the origin.
But then who am I to talk?!
I know this: Democrats are going through some profound cognitive dissonance these days. Poor fucks.
Odder still...wouldn't the Dems love Obama having the responsibility of doing God's work all to himself? The American people are behind raising the debt ceiling 100% are they not?
Before this administration is over that that "Teleprompter Puppet" is going to be blaming the Democrats for not supporting his socialist fantasies.
Why the 22nd? Did we spend all of the public pensions already?
Just wait until we have to pay those "public pensions" back! lol
These people complaining about a raise of the debt ceiling need to learn economics. Highly respected economists have warned that failure to increase the debt ceiling could result in a devastating collapse. Luckily, the President can legally raise the debt ceiling by executive order, much to the disapointment of the crazies like Rand Paul.
+10
flag as oxymoronic (1)
Paul is not crazy, but he's definitely different. And on at least 1/2 of things he's brilliant. Like Nader. God, I wish those two would get together and enact only the things they can agree on.
Edit: Ooops, I see I'm celebrating the wrong Paul.
All bullshit. Exactly who are your highly respected economists? Krugman? Romer? Goldman Sachs? Summers? Geithner? Keynes himself? They're all gone or laughing stocks.
Government will merrily go on, just like it did with the state of MN shutdown the last two weeks. Oh, you didn't hear about MN? That's because it was a non-event too. There is enough Federal revenue to pay essential services and entitlements until the rest of it gets sorted out -- democrats aren't even good liars. A possible vacation for the TSA is much needed anyway to decrease airport baggage theft.
The 14th Amendment does not allow the president to act unilaterally because all spending bills must originate in congress. Slick Willy Clinton is still a disbarred and impeached serial abuser of women who even admits the ploy is just a gambit to outrun congress temporarily until the courts caught up and stop Obama.
Having said that, I can only hope that Obama does try to usurp the 14th amendment and the Constitution some more. His totalitarian overreach will instantly doom any hope for his re-election and also that of any other democrat politician in America looking to keep their seats.
Gwar, you're glossing over the part where the government--if it does make entitlement payments--comes up short on "investors." That would make Mr. Market angry . . . very angry.
You don't want to make Him angry. That's the real MAD threat hanging over us.
The guy's a real asshole.
The House JUST passed $6 trillion in cuts with no tax increases.
Do you think they are going to turn around and pass . . . something . . . that Old Senate Republicans and House Democrats agree to? In a day or two?
This thing is going down to the wire with exceptional pressure to be put on all sides.
Indeed, the concept of principle escapes traitors like McConnell and Reid. The best they can hope for is a last minute short term (i.e. 1 month) increase in the ceiling accompanied by corresponding immediate 1 month cuts in the same amount. Obama has already caved on this short term solution.
They don't understand people like Rand Paul. They aren't professional pols. They quit real jobs in the real world to get something done before we collapse like those failed European welfare states we're observing right now. Re-election is not important to the tea party members. They know that TARP scare vote was a farce and won't get fooled again. No accounting gimmicks-cut and cap now!
Germany and France have reached a common position on a second bailout of Greece in their effort to prevent the country's debt crisis from spreading through Europe.
In related news...
That sinking feeling: Woman finds giant sinkhole under her bed
Boy, this is really gonna throw a kink into Obama's birthday bash plans. I heard they put down a non-refundable deposit on the petting zoo.
Dems don't like McConnell's Plan B?
Dems like it alright, plenty, it gives them exactly what they wanted ---- more credit cards. But they know people are watching. So it appears even the smelly nosepicking Dems have a limit as to how stupid they are willing to make themselves look.
See, if Dems really thought that massive deficit spending is the way to go to turn around the economy and the fortunes of America, they would jump at McConnell's balloon and defend that position to the last man to save the USA like they did the $1 Trillion Porkulus.
Laughable. I wish Congress would just call Obama's bluff and force him to decide between cutting the money flow and his re-election campaign.
Sacrilege!
Don't you believe in unicorns that shit skittles?
BELIEVE!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism
I prefer to use the word: psychopath. Mainly because the connotation jives with reality, in that they have no empathy, and there is no 'cure' for psychopathy. In treatment they study the psychologist and try to tell him what he wants to hear, all along picking up clues on how to manipulate people better, based on how the psychologist is 'manipulating' them.
Its the Billionaire's Club. Bankers, politicians and lawyers...
Empathy is dead indeed.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/the-death-of-empathy/
silver & gold price action shaking harder than a wet dog
"Melodrama" I think is the incorrect word choice to describe what's going on. I prefer "Soap Opera."
Perhaps if we used that to describe it, more of America would tune in.... Or maybe "America's Next Survival Island!" yada yada ya.
The Bearing has no idea of what's going to happen here. His best guess is that they will find some slimy way to raise the debt ceiling yet solve no problems.
I do not think it matters much which way this goes. There is no easy way out of the box.
NONE of our financial problems have been solved!
NO ONE of significance has gone to jail since the financial collapse.
Buy gold. Get prepared, guns & ammo, food & water, medical supplies, barter goods (booze, etc.) are all good here. As insurance.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900922&slug=1...
¿Tienes plata gringo?
Rasslin' wid a tar baby jus' gets ya mo' stucker to it! :>D
Default risk increasing each passing day.
Yesterday afternoon's computer ramp on the 30 year is now gone. I'm sure the street is all bullish as those rates rise again, putting their faith in a plan that cannot be formalized before the Aug 2 deadline, let alone pass the House due to its tax increases, pushed by M. McConnell, a man that should have retired years ago....a deal that, if done, would likely trigger a ratings downgrade.
Combined with a Bernank in dry dock due to inflationary pressures and a dollar on the verge of a full blown crisis, revealed is an uber bullish picture for....?
All on the Eve of Europe NOT FIXED again.
Brilliant! Criminal syndicate Wall Street bankers strike again.
yesterday was a heavy propaganda day.
EVERYDAY since TARP has been a heavy propaganda day.
Our community organizer is trying to get the debt limits raised without his fingerprints being on it. Make it look like a congressional decision.
Forcing him to use an executive order to raise the debt limits into law is the best plan... because the last thing he wants is to take responsibility for what happens next.
It is impossible under the present situation to solve the debt problem. The concentration of wealth, lack of near and LONG TERM jobs as we know them, decreasing resources, false ideologies prevail.
It is the age of Bachman.
Not to accuse her in particular, but imo when the new Feuhrer arrives, crucifix and flag in hand, he will be a woman. We ain't seen nothin' yet, fellow oldman.
Hillary?? She is the meanest bitch on the planet ever since the Queen Mum died a few years back.
+1984
Samantha Powers really had Hillary down cold. A lot of women do.
The Fuhrer will be somebody that gets by a lot more women. Somebody whom people don't take seriously enough, I'll bet.
If I remember correctly, Hitler wasn't overly religious.
He just trotted out the Old Gods, and Wagner for the imagery.
But even deranged Fuhrers have to improve their game over time. It's just technological advancement.
But even Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin (Ill.), a member of the Gang of Six, has conceded that the proposal cannot be turned into legislation and scored by the Congressional Budget Office by Aug. 2.
That's a feature, not a bug.
The can will be kicked until it blows-up.
The battle lines finally are clear…American citizens on one side, the bankers on the other. Most all mass media is now banker owned (“an NBC/WSJ poll today shows Americans want the GOP to compromise on the debt ceiling standoff and to raise taxes”) and Congress and the President are silly putty in their hands.
Unlike these new ‘public opinion” polls of “adults,” the real poll of Americans last November used a different category: “VOTERS.”
Now the Fed cartel and Washington interests pushing for war and welfare have a new mantra to push through their media mouthpieces (like Jeffrey Immelt’s NBC) – the Gang of Six “Something for Everybody” plan. It’s a banker dream plan; just look at its secret knockout punch…the change to a Chained-CPI.
Using the Chained-CPI-U to calculate cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security, etc., completes the Fed/BLS process to change the Consumer Price Index from a measure of maintaining a constant standard-of-living to a substitution-based measure.
Wrote John Williams in his June 30 Shadow Government Statistics commentary: “In the new measure, if steak prices rise sharply, and people shift to buying hamburger as a result, inflation is reduced accordingly by that switch.”
Maybe later, of course, people will have to switch to peanut butter in their substitution-based standard of living – or gruel.
Stealing value from American citizens to enrich Wall Street is bound to come to an end some day because of the scarcity of values to steal. . Now, however, the imminence of America’s bankruptcy will be used by the bankers to provoke horrors in the minds of the American public.
As Columnist Justin Raimondo wrote in The Banksters and American Foreign Policy: What’s Driving the Debt Ceiling Debate on July 15, 2011 at Antiwar.com:
“And now, with unmistakable finality, Wall Street has spoken in the form of Moody’s and S&P, the bonds rating agencies, which are threatening to downgrade US bonds if Congress fails to raise the limit.
“This should give the ordinary American a clue as to what is at stake here, and who is on what side: it’s the Washington insiders and Wall Street versus the people of the United States – and the stakes are the fate of the nation. “
A silent nuke, so to speak. Fiendishly clever. That one simple conceptual variable carrying so much weight. Especially by accretion/compounding over time.
Thanks, JR.
Come visit me in Oceania! The weather's great and everything's fine. And getting finer every day. By definition.
And if the price of hamburger goes up, you can switch to sawdust. Thank goodness we can find a political solution to everything.
Stalin sure fixed that pesky Kulak problem in the Ukraine.
What is our endgame here ?
This is a game of run out the clock, they have no intentions of making a deal.
When the history of this is written, this will be what Barry added to the discussion...
The accelerated tax writeoff for corporate jets in my stimulus bill was a bad idea...I can't guarantee grandma's SS check because I will direct Timmy to pay bond holders first...don't call my bluff...rip the bandaid off...eat your peas and now we're talkin turkey.
Excellent.
Waiter!, check please ;-)
Excellent...leading via political slogans! Stalin/Mao/Hitler/Goebbels would be proud!
Barry fancies himself a political jive artist but all he does is talk out of his ass.
I mean really...pull the bandaid off, what does that wind up meaning? Pulling a bandaid off means something has or is healing.
Then eat your peas, like he's the daddy of the country...the king...that one pissed me off so bad I couldn't see straight...jerk.
He follows these inanities up with don't call my bluff...ROTFLMAO!!! This one had me laughing so hard at him I soon forgot how pissed I was at his stupid pea line. Announcing that one is bluffing kinda defeats the purpose of the bluff...I would take every friggin dime he had if I were sitting at a poker table with him what a buffoon.
We have friggin Erkel as President...I have to think the launch codes have been secretly changed so he doesn't accidently nuke Cleveland...lol.
all roads lead to..
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/moodys-now-threatening-downgrade-on-5...
All as crystal clear as a cup of mud.
So this is what a total vacuum of ethics and leadership looks like ...
One way or another, debt-ceiling increase will be scammed through. Except for the 9 reps (and Bachmann was one of them) who voted against Cut, Crap, and Whatever, they are all personally invested in the same Ponzi. Well and Good. Let them kick the can one last time. There's not one of us who couldn't use a little more time to prepare for what's coming.
"House Democratic leaders are attacking Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) debt-ceiling fallback plan, characterizing it as a political ruse intended to scapegoat Democrats and taint them at the polls."
That is all I smell of American politics is taint!
No wonder they are in a hurry, July 22 is coming up and they know they got to get the money from somewhere to pay those bonds. And they don't want to make a politically bad decision of saying we won't pay SS checks for next month or no unemployment for this week and the next and the next. And after listening to many of the new senators and congressmen who are Tea partiers or in it to give Obama a black eye and the Republicans a win next year, I think that no deal is going to be had. Especially after Obama said today that he is willing for a short term extension after 10 days saying that he wasn't and wouldn't go for it. He is dreading July 22.