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LBMA Gold Manipulation Story Hits The Mainstream
First, the gold manipulation story that Zero Hedge and select others have been beating a drum over for months, had finally made inroads into the broader public, first via the Huffington Post, and earlier today via the NY Post. It has also gone global thanks to the Melbourne Herald Sun, the largest newspaper in Australia, whose column by John Beveridge "More bull than bullion" is reproduced below, courtesy of the GATA. Most importantly, Zero Hedge will soon disclose some very stirring details on the manipulated gold market courtesy of yet another whistleblower, and add a new twist in the greatest precious meals fraud saga of all time. Stay tuned.
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its about time
Ach! So much bad news, so little time.
I'm already loaded up. Just waiting for the starting gun to go off. May be a bit yet, but it will happen once people start taking delivery...
I'm almost all loaded up, but I cannot load on anymore (for now) as I go to Italy tomorrow with my precious wife. But, that means no Au or Pt or Ag purchases until I am back. Bummer!
Still, I continue to think gold under $1500 is a gift. Take it! Physical only.
...
My new favorite PM is Pb (lead), going at over 1000' per second. Lead delivery systems has become my new hobby. My new friends Mr. Beretta and Mr. Kalashnikov look like they will be there with me if we go down...
ZH poster Shameful made a comment that PM holders and gun owners seem to be highly correlated. I would like to see how true that is, it seems like there would indeed be a high correlation. Someone should do a study!
I've said the same thing many times (gold a buy under 1,500). multiple gold co ceos, have said it will take a 1,500/oz price to get serious about new exploration and allocating a real proportion of cash flow into this area. Until then, the long term trend of declining production will continue...
Peak gold. As energy prices rise and the best veins being gone it will get more and more expensive to get the gold out of the ground. Though that's a long term factor, years away. I'm more concerned about the price move this year then any other. Still hoping for another year to load up.
+1 for that Cartoon.
lol not sure how many respondents you would get.
Surveyor: "Hi I'm doing a survey can I have a minute of your time"
Goldbug: "Sure, but make it fast"
Surveyor: "Do you own both guns and gold"
Goldbug: hangs up the phone in disgust "Damn government trying to get my information! Bet they want to confiscate my pretties!" And back to looking loving at his gold and guns :)
Have a good time in Italy. Take advantage of the weak Euro!
Grazie mi amico! Vacation nothing else. Although I will talk with Italians, what they see. More info into the hopper.
I hope to fire off some comments if I get some interesting feedback from Italy.
Shameful! I do NOT respond to unknown phone interviews. My preference is to stay below the radar. Except commenting with apparent friends (you and others looking for exits). The world is a big place.
But, at least for now, I am staying in the USA, armed up w/ my 9mm Beretta and my AK-47 (and of course my PM holdings here and in Peru). I have essentially no debt, and I am pure American, although ready to jump to Peru aty a moment's notice.
"Mi esposa es tan bella, agradable y maravillosa".
Like I have said before, I fell like I am the luckiest man alive.
"Mr. Kalashnikov look like they will be there with me if we go down..."
Mr. Kalashnikov IS the World's Gold Standard of Rifles
Nice call, DoChenRollingBearing...
I'm a fan of Barrett firearms. The REC-7 is very nice. They are pricey, but quality doesn't come cheap.
http://www.barrett.net/firearms/rec7
Ahh...... but my Sako .243 bolt action, firing 90 grains will shoot a 2" group at a couple of hundred metres.
Assault rifles are good but as the welcome board at the US Marine Scout-Sniper School, Camp Lejeune says;
"Firepower usually means an increased number of misses per minute. Fifty misses are not firepower. One hit is firepower".
Only a moron would hold physical gold, yet not the means to protect and defend it. Security through obscurity is no defense. That's like money by fiat. You'd best be able to back up your secrecy with hard firepower.
I am Chumbawamba.
ok Chumb, time to call you out on some of your posts.. you act like the 'zombie hordes' and anyone else coming after your gold is going to cater to your whims and walk into your line of fire when you are ready.. go back to your video games where you can pause to take a shit and save your game while you sleep
the rules of engagement will be so Dark Ages then anything in history since no one bothers to record history in the darkest of times..
What I really like about ZH and various comments like yours are the deep, dark ominous undertones that one cannot be truly prepared for what is to come.
The only problem with this position though, is that it seemingly rejects the systemic failure as design feature hypothesis.
That is, if one is to reject the 'hoocoodanode' alternative, then one should logically conclude that the entire cycle from birth to death is known. This of course includes looming social chaos, riots and ultimately war.
The engineers who put the credit-money system in place are taught the 5,000 years old history of usury from a very young age. They well know the eventual outcome and have prepared accordingly. (It's why two small strategic nations provide the ultimate safe-houses to ride out the storm.)
The only thing that really worries them, the only thing that would represent a disasterous black swan of epic proportions, is if the credit-money system was not preserved as the economic system after the reset.
My advice, for those willing to take it, is to focus on the big picture. Gold, guns, etc are merely small tactical exercises in self-preservation; the truly epic battle for the future of humanity is yet to come.
If you don't own a firearm you are a slave and a disgrace to the Founding Fathers that paid in blood for what you have. Gunowners are the only ones that can absolutely protect themselves from tyranny. It used to be clubs. Then swords. Now full metal jackets @ 2800 feet per second.
Own a gun = Citizen
No gun = slave
We live in a police state - guilty until proven innocent. Wrongful death at the hands of aggressive law enforcement? FUCK YOU, get a good lawyer for "resisting arrest" and "assaulting an officer". Oh, you're dead.
Habeus Corpus suspended. Posse Comitatus non-existent. Militarized police with cruel new toys that burst eardrums from blocks away.
If the people hit the streets en masse it's not the people in the wrong.
Video games? Rambo? Or reality?
The rules of engagement are simple: if you initiate force against me you will be shot.
Hey Chumba:
I just got my 2nd equalizer, a S&W 9 MM. So I also had to invest in lead & copper. Sheesh, guns & ammo might be worth more than the gold if the SHTF.
Sell it. Long guns or rapid fire shotguns, knives and claw hammers.
Have you noticed that PMs brass and lead are now more available but seem to have risen in price about 30% in the last six months. Sadly I own (cached) more B/L than Ag, but, then again, without the B/L I would probably not be able to retain my Ag.
wait for it...
I just hope Tyler's Linux box doesn't overload when the new whistleblower news hits ZH. TD needs a backup server, with a load-balancer to split the packetload.
Can't wait for the latest installment.
Zerohedge rocks...thanks!
I just love a new whistleblower
The Melbourne Herald Sun...... it has to be true !!!!
And as I type Gold is SPIKING MAAAAASSIVELY by $4
you place your money where you want to and I'll place mine where I want to, ok?
to answer your question I have absolutely no interest in what you do with your money whatsoever
no interest .. sound like a bank lol
MasterBates/PeterPeter incarnation #43
God is molding you like a potterer again. Just be careful he's going to give you a little weenie and you won't have no bling if you don't bitch.
Ah, a gold basher with many handles? It was the same at MarketWatch with Americanpatriot abd Newbegold, I wonder if this is the same guy
Or the same department/agency.
Thank you Cass:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arthur-goldwag/cass-sunsteins-thought-po_b...
Ah cmon, the Herald Sun is ok. Sports section is great and you don't have to be an origami expert to be able to read it on the train.
Good for Huffpo to get it out there. When the NYT, FT, and WSJ get serious on it, we know we will have hit it out of the park. Until then, it's all just us lunatic fringers holding our pretty little Maples and Eagles and monster silver bars like a newborn.
Here's a NY Post link Howard... and "don't you just love the smell of (whistle-blowers) in the morning!"
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/metal_are_in_the_pits_2arTlGNbMK7mb1uJeVHb0O
Pajamas Media throws another freshly minted bundle on the fire;
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/is-someone-manipulating-the-price-of-gold/
And a whistleblower does what good these days other than providing us another reason to bitch about the lack of any form of regulation/prosecution?
Because One Whistle Blower Gives Courage to Another
When enough come forward giving facts to the systemic level of corruption... the sheeple are less and less likely to take the next foreclosure, the next round of layoffs and the next oligarchy sodomy as usual.
When Joe six pack is out of beer and cable...
Then the oligarchy are at the tipping point. If the idiot Amerikan rabble figures out it is not a left right thing but a ruling elite and the uncouth masses thing (ie class war), then Joe cheese six inch may actually shoot at the right target instead of the wrong target.
Judging by the lack of analytical skills, logical reasoning and reading ability of my fellow Amerikans... that is a pretty BIG "if."
well said.
What good is a whistleblower? It causes the market to take action, by causing more people to take physical delivery. This will eventually bust the COMEX and all associated conspirators, and lead to the moonshot.
Way to go Tyler! I can't wait! This just gets better everyday and the value of my bullion keeps going up with every report!:))
If you don't have possession, Goldfinger is the middle one
+1 Right on the money, bend over!
Interestingly enough, the article from the Herald Sun is NOT available online. I love the line: those claiming that PM markets are rigged to keep prices suppressed are "parasites on the body public"...
And after reading the Herald Sun newspaper article, I cannot say that I find it entirely objective or unbiased, to say the least --- the repeated suggestion that "goldbugs" are paranoid conspiratorialists is the main message I think the average person would take away from this story. The large photo of Mel Gibson from the movie "Conspiracy Theory" accompanying the article is particularly insulting.
All in all, it was just another corporate media hatchetjob that, while offering some real information regarding the gold market and its attendant controversies, once again attempts to place the "kook" hat on the subject of gold.
oh come on, gold bugs are, perhaps not clinically paranoid, but certainly "conspiratorialists". i think they see a conspiracy against them (that, in truth, exists). and i think they are part of a (rather public) conspiracy that opposes the first conspiracy. and it's getting better (more straight up fun and more profitable to watch/participate in) by the minute.
I am a gold bug and I do not believe in conspiration: I believe in fraud, pure and simple, and there is a big difference between the two. When the price of gold crashes every time the COMEX opens, you are not dealing with a conspiracy: you are dealing with fraud, and fraud that is quite open and visible to all.
Also, I consider myself a gold bug because I can't see how governments will ever solve the (now classical) problem: how do you restart an economy with a Keynesian policy when the level of debt before the economic crisis was already astounding? Short answer: you can't. Longer answer: GOLD... BITCHES!!
They think they can manipulate PM's because they are money. They manipulate their fiatscoes so why not PM's?
Because you can't print a fuckin' gold bar, end of story.
Yes, multiple fraudsters is called "conspiracy".
And they are not theories, but facts.The Herald Sun is an Aussie tabloid. It's not quite as tabloid'ish as the UK tabloids, but a tabloid none the less (esp. given that 'tabloid' actually refers to the page size).
The broadsheets in Australia are generally regarded as slightly more objective and unbiased. I think the take away from this is that it's getting more play in the MSM, regardless of which parts of the MSM are playing it.
Tabloids can do the job, Ned. It took the National Enquirer to break the John Edwards fiasco.
Don't underestimate the impact.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/04/12/enquirer.tabloids.pulitzer/?hpt=C1
We need ANOTHER follow-up interview with Jeffrey Christian!
I simply can't WAIT for the next juicy detail surrounding this whole sordid mess that he will let slip!
Go "Rumpelstiltskin Christian" Go!
Since there has been one reported attempt on his life, Mr. Christian would do well to avoid airplanes, cars, trains, bicycles, and, oh yes, gliders.
http://secret-ice.blogspot.com/2010/03/uae-presidents-brother-killed-in....
Story on Chinese website in english about the cftc hearing and andrew m. My favorite sentence in the article is: So far the car carrying his torso has been run off the English roads.
although it kind of sounds like a Jim Willie article. Looks like they translated and reposted.
http://www.popfinancing.com.cn/gupiao/zixun/201004/08-14270.html
from the article.
"like Zero Hedge and their small platoon of Wall Street soldiers in service to the truth ."
i think he means 'division'. not platoon.
Great! thats getting the word out about ZH!
and that should release all the smoke out of the server this time.
And the first gold-hating cockroach crawls out of the woodwork!
Congratulations, junior Nadler! I admire your punctuality.
"Because gold is honest money, it is disliked by dishonest men."
(Edit: and dishonest cockroaches.)
(Ron Paul)
+1, or in the best case - ignorant men
JOry... UP your bucket!
So whats wrong with an investment like gold? PM's are good investments, just dont be a fool and believe that holding anything on paper is 100% safe. Neville Chamberlain comes to mind.
There is also the chance that goverments the world over begin confiscating gold.
Not likely, but has been done before, and at a loss to investors. Unlikely but possible.
Sad news about that head of yours 'jory'... try ROTFL (with a helmet)... much safer.
jory: how's gold doing against the s&p over the last decade? hmmm? s&p beat the pants off gold from 1980 to 2000 (after gold ate stocks' lunch from 1965 to 1980). every asset has its day and boy does 2010 and following ever look like the time for the shiny one: good historical story (vs. previous deflationary depressions), good technical picture (twenty+ year bear market followed by eight year bull, with major correction in 2008 behind us) and a fundamental story, complete with market manipulation/price suppression, that may be unmatched in the history of the world. and even i am not all in. so you see...
jory? Jory Berkwitz from BAC/ML in Boston? Is that you?
Has anyone ever seen magnesium catch on fire? If you try to add water, it goes off like a rocket.
As a lad I would set it on fire myself. Had some Mag metal ribbon. Bright as an arc light. Do flash/bangs use Mag?
I don't know about flashbangs, but if this story starts a run, trying to cool it off by jawboning is only going to make it worse as it will increase awareness that theres a problem.
I have invested in both physical gold and silver myself. That said, I am not sure what all the fuss is about, considering that those trading 'paper gold' have always known it was leveraged.
I am obviously niave, but i see the real upshoot for bullion would only be if there was a massive run on delivery demands. At which point, there will probably be a spike in bullion prices, with failure to delivers winding up being settled by and large by cash settlements.
So is everyone hoping that those holding paper gold rise up and demand delivery? Is the ultimate intent to take institutions obviously manipulating the prices of these commodities like JP Morgan down? Would everyone with a claim to bullion demanding delivery all at once really 'crash' the COMEX?
I am having trouble picturing what the best case scenario is for us holding physical could possibly be.
If, and if this indeed takes off like a roman candle, I believe you will see emergency measures taken by the Fed the same as when sub-prime blew up. Odds will be Large firms get the bailout, private investors get the shaft.
I dont like the odds.
Sadly, I have to agree. While a VW-type scenario is likely given the leverage, I recall that the rules were changed back in 1980 during the Hunt-Saudi bull market. Back then it was only to protect the likes of Henry Jarecki at Mocatta; now it's Jamie Dimon. No expense will be spared, I fear.
I believe you are correct. Because PM holders are in the minority, the gubmint will feel the need to save the masses by somehow stomping down the gold price. Can't let the gold bugs think they were smarter than us. The problem with Jory is he's probably late to the party and missed out on sub $1000 oz gold. I think too many people don't think what happened in other fiat based economies can happen to the U.S. Where just too damn smart and civilized. Well we'll see what happens when all hell breaks loose. If oil goes to $100 a barrel all bets are off, we can't handle that shock to the system. I also get a kick out of the idea that we're hoping America falls. I don't think any of us want that, as it is China is here buying up more RE than I'm comfortable with. They are beating us at our own game, they saved and laid in waiting for us to spend ourselves into oblivion on all their cheap worthless crap they fill Walmart with. Now we're left with landfills of plastic junk and they are using our money to buy our properties. No I don't think what lays ahead will be pretty. Gold and Silver is just an insurance policy that will make a few of us able to barter with other goldbugs.
It's not America anymore. If we have a collective boil it must be lanced immediately. Unless you prefer amputation. Crash it will, sooner is better than later. The main, main, main problem is that no one grows their own food anymore = the more advanced the economy, the more will starve to death.
That would be the "home run, bases loaded, bottom of the 9th, to win" jomoma. Not a likely result... putting an end (at least most of it) to the price suppression is what I'm looking for... and at this point, the odds are betting better every day (I'm trusting TD to come through with the goods on this one)... very interesting times.
Can someone help me understand... the often cited reason for the suppression of the price of gold is to prevent people from realizing just how worthless paper currency is and seeing that the emperor is naked.
This video seems to indicate that a lot of people have no idea what the price of gold is (I would think the coin was fake too, but ask your neighbor what the price of gold is):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk5aRIz17fk
This supposed reason for price suppression has just never quite passed the smell test to me. If I were concerned with keeping the population from figuring out that paper money is worthless, it would seem like suppressing the price of oil would be much higher on my to-do list, since that has much more of an impact on most people’s daily lives. If gold went to $2000, the impact for most would be that jewelry would get more expensive. I realize there may be harder supply constraints with oil, but if the government is willing to go to such great lengths to suppress the price of gold, wouldn’t they also drop the gasoline tax (and make it up somewhere else, of course)?
From the GATA angle, if someone is willing to sell me something that is supposedly worth $5,000 for $1,180, my first emotion is not outrage. Why has this price suppression ostensibly failed over the last decade? I’ll bet you could get delivery of a substantial quantity of gold if you really wanted to.
If this price manipulation is true, why hasn't someone taken Tavakoli's advice and cornered the gold market?
http://www.tavakolistructuredfinance.com/Gold.pdf
P.S. I'm about 50% PMs myself, since the economy doesn't pass the smell test either. I just haven’t ever understood this reasoning for price manipulation. In other words, why do the PTB care about the price of gold so much?
"Gold is Money and Nothing Else."
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/04/gold-money-more-than-meets-eye.html
Written 11 years ago, but IMO it is just as meaningful today when it comes to understanding the global oil/gold markets.
I think you make a very good point.
The suppression argument just doesn't hold up. I have taken delivery 4x in the last 3 years and sold twice. There has never been any issue at all.
There seems to be a common thread amongst the Gold Bugs on this site that they constantly feel the need to defend their position and remind people of what they think which I find very hard to understand.
Be careful, that was the last three years. I would sell that paper tomorrow.
Who knows, maybe its nothing. Given the almost total lack of transparency and reckless regard to moral hazard we are witnessing these days, can you blame anyone for being on guard?
Watch your back.
Professor, that is a good question, but I feel the answer is that it does not matter (at least at this point) whether the average man on the street understands gold and its position in our monetary system. What is much more pertinent is that those who really matter --- the big investors, economists, and world central bankers --- are and always have been fully aware of gold's importance, even as they claim to feel indifference or publicly demonstrate hostility to it. THEY are the ones who needed to have the fiat wool pulled over their eyes.
Jeb3's fofoa link (above) is a must read. A lot tastier than the Melbourne Herald.
A low gold price will flush out the weak physical hands, will it not?
Those who know it's value can then accumulate.
Seems Sun Tzu pretty much cornered the strategy market long ago.
Good job he left us a book.
Weak hands... doing their bit to keep the oil flowing since 1980.
If the big players try to flush us small us PM investors, remember there are STRONG HANDS among us gold holders.
NOT going to sell my Au, Pt, Ag or even my fast moving Pb holdings. I will let my daughter decide that! She is the best 40 caliber shot in my family.
DO NOT TRUST THE TPTB!
Always better to have alternatives to the .gov propapanda. Keep your gold and firearms real close...
Only those who don't truly understand the peril that we (globally) are in would let go of their gold at this juncture. You either understand what role gold is playing now and will play in the future or you don't. And if you don't, woe be unto you. And I don't say that sarcastically or gleefully but with much sadness, because no matter how many times I and others have tried to explain to you why gold is important and necessary right now, you fail to heed our admonitions. No matter how earnestly and honestly we try to convince you that it is the right and correct choice, you fall victim to the charlatans who tell you otherwise, who frame us as kooks and conspiratorialists. So be it. We can only offer our sincere wisdom and love, but we can't force you to accept it. Your decision must be of your own free will.
I am Chumbawamba.
- pull the reins back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx4Dd_JjEig
Yawn. Or is that "yoing"? I'm not quite sure what this douche is saying. Because the problem with his thesis is that he's an extremist. Things will not get so bad that no one anywhere will not want to trade you something they have for your gold and/or silver, which is actually money. What this guy fails to take into account is the history of the world prior to 1913, which last I checked spanned about, oh, 10,000 years, and in that time the role of gold and silver as a store of wealth and money respectively and inclusively was established, and the blip of time between that time and now has not really changed the fundamental quality of those two monetary metals.
And if, IF, things get as bad as he says (and I have no reason to doubt that they could), this is why I always admonish with Gold, Guns and Garden. Precious metals are but one aspect of your overall hedge. The guns and the garden are additional insurance.
Instead of listening to this dope tell you why you shouldn't buy gold and silver, study the words of a wise man:
http://jsmineset.com
I am Chumbawamba.
Yup. It might take 2 - 3 years for the dust to settle, depending on what is going on in your region (the west will "recover" the most quickly, if there has not been an invasion), for PMs to trade at "full value". Most will be concerned about finding their next meal - but gold and silver will eventually become the most liquid item to be bartered. That is, PMs will retake the throne as money after wheat, bullets, toilet paper (a flushing toilet, for that matter) and other necessities are in good supply.
The guy's argument is sound only if you haven't already purchased supplies to stay above room temperature. But if you have plenty to invest, why not also purchase PMs? The dollar is so worthless, after having lost so much of its value through inflation-theft, that it takes over 1,000 paper notes to buy one small piece of gold! And if it weren't for GLD we would all collectively gasp out how worthless the Federal Reserve notes are in comparison to Au and Ag.
It's not the suppression of the price of Au as much as it is keeping the FRN money system from collapsing once and for all.
He says, "Where would you turn it in?". I assume he means for fiat dollars? Or what? He does not say. Who the hell intends to turn it in??!! The metals are not kept as an offset to fiat currency. Anyone who understands the role of precious metal also understands that they have to make arrangements for social unrest.
The fella demonstrates the basic problem with non-gold adherents. A total lack of understanding of what gold or silver represent. Period. These folks will never change their calcified minds. Not that I mind all that much, really.
The answer is contained in your own post.
"This video seems to indicate that a lot of people have no idea what the price of gold is..."
Watch how many more people begin to be aware of the POG as it rises. And how many more start asking "why?".
The simplest most logical answer to that question is the reason they expend so much time and energy trying to make sure it never gets asked.
I see your point, but I think a lot more people would be talking around the water cooler about $6 gas (not that that isn't coming also). I think this argument could apply to the price of just about anything, yet unbridled monetization seems to be the choice that has been made, and that choice will have increased consequences for a lot of things that people would start to ask "why" about.
Why doesn't George Soros corner the gold market? I know he just bought some more, but why not buy 1% of it and call 'bs'?
There is a difference between high gas prices and rising gold prices. The difference is the nature of gold. Rising gas prices can result from monetary inflation, geopolitical instability or changes in the supply and demand balance. All economic activity relies on energy.
Most of the gold mined throuighout human history is still around somewhere and supply only increases by 1 or 2% per year. Very little economic activity requires gold. Since supply is quite stable, the only thing that dramatically affects the price of gold is demand.
If economic activity isn't dependent on gold, what could cause an increase in demand?
Gold is unique in the world and increasing demand for it usually means people are seeking a store of value. Gold is the canary in the fiat coal mine.
george may not want the grief (cf. hunt brothers in silver in 1980). also the huge naked shorts may get squeezed and do the work for him (and us). why gold and not oil, etc.? it's that it is more like money than other commodities (some say it is the only money) and, historically (in deflationary depressions particularly), it goes up first, before widespread price inflation manifests itself elsewhere. the financial elites know this and so guard against it so as to retain some credibility and control.
professor ,, why should soros corner the gold market?
he just bought some more. oh goodie
how come you guys think soros is the go to guy for all financial sense /
gold is being bought as a results of the huge devaluing for the currencies of the world ,
gold is money , it matters not what soros does in your world or mine ,
best to make sure your protected asset wise from a mighty storm a coming ,
that's what the price of gold is signalling in all currencies
"Why doesn't George Soros corner the gold market? I know he just bought some more, but why not buy 1% of it and call 'bs'?"
Here's my tinfoil hat answer. Because if Soros did as you describe/suggest, it would harm his friends, who are just about everybody else's true enemies.
My neighbor may not know the price of gold but those guys at the treasury and the fed sure do. Low gold prices are the reason a loaf of bread is $3 and not $30 or $300. The price of steel has just gone up by 50%. If gold were to rise to its true market level I'd expect it to take oil right along for the ride. Gold is money. Oil is not money. Too messy!
If the CFTC meeting answered the question of naked shorting in the right mega investors' minds we may well see something a la Janet Tavakoli. It's only been a few weeks.
I expect the manipulation to continue, however, as it's, no doubt, considered 'national security' to keep the dollar (and the euro, pound, etc) from going too deeply into the tank. They'll do it until they can't.
Lets say you have $100K in a money market; just to have some emergency liquidity around. If you turn it into gold, that removes $1M of credit from circulating. Now lets say 10 million middle class people do the same. A large reduction in credit would occur. Roosevelt called in gold in 34 to take $'s from mattresses and hopefully put it into banks. Thus getting 10x the bang in credit expansion.
THEY must make gold look stupid. If it looks smart, as people pile into it, it becomes a contagion and $'s converted into AU rises logarithmically as the price rises geometrically. The only thing between Weimar and the $ is Joe Countryclub's perception. So THEY create an infinite supply of naked shorts in AU and AG. I think this is a big reason why AU and AG price is suppresed and ridiculed. Bernanke smirked when Ron Paul talked about using gold to back the $. He was serious with every other congressman at the hearing.
that smirk is worth a thousand words.
+1 your 1st paragraph was one of the most useful & succinct paragraphs explaining the game that's being played that i have read. it may also be one of the most persuasive to help others not so "conspiracy" minded, but who have to begun to understand the follies of fractional reserve banking and the policies of infinite leverage.
in chemistry, gold is what's called a transition element. and if you think about it, that's all money is.
dupe
Good point SNAFU... hadn't thought of that one... thanks!
Thanx for the compliments, all. The man who alerted me to the ponzi in 2006 asked me a question last month. It was: "did you buy your gun yet?" He sees some turmoil ahead. He has the spirit of Andrew Jackson. google Jacksons farewell address. He warns about central banks and their overlords.
Professor,
one reason to keep gold price suppressed is (or was) to keep interest rates low. From the early eighties until 2000 the price of gold divided by 50 tracked the interest of the US 10-year-bond fairly well. Since then not anymore.
If it makes sense to hold metal that simply stays the way it is instead of collecting interest it shows something is wrong with the paper and/or the interest that is paid.
Another reason is that gold is an alternative to the US$ or at least an indication of health of the $.
To corner the gold market someone would need a lot of money; say somebody wants to but half the mine output from this year. That would be ~50 billion of cash preferably outside of the US.
Margin would have to come from a bank that might be short gold; not a good idea.
The bar to corner the market is in my opinion a bit high. The only ones who could provide enough money are central banks.
The buying would probably not show up at COMEX and LBMA because the raw gold is traded trough Switzerland OTC. Only later there would be shortages at the gold exchanges.
"I have the Canadian Money and the stores around here won't take it?" Notice he didnt use a $50 dollar U.S. Gold oz. coin... cause. um... they would have given him change for the $50.
I own Gold... I own other metals... I own Paper... more importantly I own AMMO! and GUNS! and food. But the ammo and guns, in all cases trump any and all of the others. I promise you I am not lying to you!
Ammo will be worth its weight in GOLD! BITCHES!
I tried that years ago as a jape and a wheeze in Piccadilly in London with a 50 Frank Swiss note which I offered to passers by for £5 (it was then worth much more but can't remember how much). Same results !
Thanks for the link jeb3.
With Maquire surviving London's idea of a drive by shooting, hopefully many more whistle blowers will surface and tell their stories.
And on that subject..Why has the name or identity of the driver who was apprehended not been released? What is going on here? This is well over a week. Could it be that there is a distinct link to the banking industry? What is going on with this Tyler?
The bear market rally wants to continue for a bit longer ...
DOW/SP500 daily bull signals from Friday 9 April continue.
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-0
GOLD ZILCHO 2010:
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/04/gold-zilcho-2010.html
Murdoch Rags Main Steam Media?
Murdoch is a DOUCHE propagandist. Who gave that fucker US citizenship? Talk about an undesirable alien.
Okay after that character reference, let us examine this:
Why would Republican lovin' arch reactionary Murdoch run these stories in two of his less than credible celebrity rags?
(Come on... the National Enquirer looks less trashy than the NY Post...)
Blowing the Whistle?
Murdoch knows and is motivated by only two things:
Revenge and a sleazy buck...
1. Did Murdoch get burned on gold?
2. Or is Murdoch just picking up another sleazy buck?
What is the Mur-douche up to?
Very good point PI... but he doesn't edit, and wouldn't have seen it. Michael Gray may be job hunting next week.
Keep the pressure on. Oddly enough I remember some stories came out in the Enquirer and others like it before mainstream media picked it up. I loved that movie Conspiracy Theory.
remember what men in black said: the only real news reporting.
on Mon, 04/12/2010 - 00:12
#295992
Keep the pressure on. Oddly enough I remember some stories came out in the Enquirer and others like it before mainstream media picked it up. I loved that movie Conspiracy Theory.
Rick64,
Anthrax... being one of the stories... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Enquirer#Anthrax_attack
The Pope's no longer own the news paper... good group of people they were. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1004080771
The Pope's no longer own the news paper... good group of people they were. http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1004080771
Interesting story.
ANOTHER whistleblower! Oh, Tyler, you TEASE! I can't hardly wait to read about it!
Be careful what you wish for. No one will survive the Mad Max moment. You have a gun, great. So you get to kill the first 50 people. Then what? Ok, you have 'land' in the Midwest. Great, I hope you have a few mules and some old fashioned plows. Oh, and your neighbors had better take a shine to you. Prey for a very slow deconstruction.
..everyone except Mad Max.
but seriously, survival will be a bitch.
maybe. but maybe not. the (last great) depression was horrible for many but not for all. the difference was, essentially, access to capital and portfolio management after that. see the film my man godfrey. a very serious comedy.
The standard of living for most people rose during the Great Depression. While prices fell due to deflation, real wages rose. The only people who truly suffered were the idiot bankers who didn't see it coming.
I am Chumbawamba.
They didn't have 18-wheelers keeping supermarket shelves full, so there is no comparison.
maybe if you live in an overpopulated city
Such lack of imagination.
You will be delicious to the zombie hoards.
I am Chumbawamba.
"""""Be careful what you wish for. No one will survive the Mad Max moment. You have a gun, great. So you get to kill the first 50 people. Then what? """""
Then I kill the fifty-first.
ny post and huffington post, thank you.
I sold out of my last paper gold today, and I'm feeling quite relieved. I have been swapping it, slowly, for physical metal for the last 6 month or so. I don't have many ounces, but if everyone on the world has less than one each, well, let's just say that I've got mine.
What I don't quite get is this -- If paper gold is exposed to be a highly leveraged scam, them the price of paper gold will plummet (presumably). If gold dealers stick to this pricing then there will be a fairly quickly shortage of physical metal. If paper gold plunged to $100 / oz because the COMEX defaulted and was exposed to be empty (or full of tungsten), and nobody could buy gold from dealers, how do you price real gold then? Is it perhaps some MULTIPLE of the paper gold price (or perhaps initially a premium percentage, say 20%, then 30% then.. 100%..2x, 3x, 10x etc)? Is this how it's going to play out? Shouldn't we be watching then for a difference in the physical versus paper gold price? There doesn't seem to be any split there yet...or will it suddenly strike like lightning? What do you'all think on this?
good freaking question. i've got some paper gold, much more mining shares. am getting out of former soon. my guess: minor discrepancy leads to discontinuity (like august to late october in stocks in 1987). but i'm clearly hysterical.
It will take some time (maybe a matter of days) to shake out but eventually the price would be quoted for the physical market only. Region will play into the price, as it becomes difficult to source from one area of the country versus another.
As for the price itself, it will instantly catapult to some number between the last COMEX price and infinity, depending on how badly the person wanting to buy wants to buy it (and how much cash they have, as well as the type of cash they have, cuz dollars might not be worth the paper they're printed on at some point).
I am Chumbawamba.
I'm really not an expert but, as I understand it, there is NO physical price. The "physical price" is computed from the future (paper) prices.
correct
umm, if one buys a Krugerrand or Eagle on Ebay, I'm pretty sure there's a price and you sure hope it's physical.
You may believe in gold, but I will not take it as payment... The 'safety' in it is only imaginary.
Also, exchange spread costs tend to be pretty high compared to any other reasonably liquid holding.
What makes you think you might have anything that I might want to buy from you with my gold?
I am Chumbawamba.
I'll take it as payment.
Dammit I'm confused again. Please somebody tell me if this means I should buy something for which there is less supply than we think, or stay away from something that I can't have?
the first one
They call people like gold bugs,crazy dooms day people.
Thats because we do not follow the stupid lie spread amoung the sheeple about paper
currency or paper gold.Just because we want to safeguard our hard earned money, to protect
ourselves and families.We all know how this is going to end, gold and silver will save a lot
of families.Buy while you can and buy coins.The bars be carefull!!
Good luck to all.
So zerohedge has turned into an echochamber for gold and gun nuts. What a pity. I remember when you used to actually find some pertinent information on the comments section of this site. Now? Now it might as well be a Glenn Beck auxiliary; all you need is Liddy pumping Roslyn Capital ("Hear that? That's the sound of security; that's the sound... of Gold!")
One of my favorite comments from last year was, when the market had already gone up, like 60%, and you guys had already been calling for The Correction that Never Comes, when a somebody posted, "You guys should sell T-shirts that say, 'I Read zerohedge and Now I Have zeromoney.'"
You guys have been so wrong for so long now...
vice, you troll... stir that pot. and the world was flat a long time ago.
even in the fringe-lands of ZH, most are too 'smart' to take the hits for even considering that glenn beck might be onto something.
GB is great. we need more glenn becks. most folks don't have the balls to either really watch him (i heard he said...), or admit it in 'intelligent' company... thanks to the MSM lambasting of his character... not his message, mind you, his character. sure he's a kook, and he has to dumb down stuff to reach the most of us, but he cracks me up sometimes, and is afraid for this country. but hey, i still think bugs bunny rocks - kids watch it and i still crack up.
but seriously - anyone who isn't a bit nervous about what's going on, is either not paying attention, or is part of the problem - same difference.
BTW - i just have the ZH 'gold bitches' mug - no t-shirt yet. vice, you can still mugs at the ZH store :^)
Have fun riding on the gloat boat. Keep a close eye out for obstacles in your way.
Eh, you're a troll because you have failed to notice my 20%+ gains in PMs over the last year or so. I just bought some Ag @ 18 Federal Reserve notes a week ago and it's around 18.50 now. It beat your bank account for the whole year in one week, vicelord.
Please stay in you cash position, your real estate, stockmarket casino, whatthefuckever because I need to buy more PMs before the music stops.
My PM Fund is up 35% in six months (with massive fraud and price fixing of gold and silver), while the indexes are up about 15% (based on HVT and algo's)... over to you vice.
this does happen to be a gold related article. maybe has some bearing on who the commenters might be?
My wife is Chinese. I had no problem suggesting we buy gold and silver.
In Asian countries gold is very liquid, many carry it around on the person as a personal bank such as chains or rings. They regularly cash it in or buy it when they have money and gold shops are not hard to find.
The paper price will collapse only if there is a mass exit. I guess those knowing the true physical backing of paper gold can just wait until the price drops to bargain levels and buy up the paper ownership and own the lot so to speak.
May not be such a big deal to the banksters if people lose confidence in paper gold if it has the result of lowering the price whilst giving them greater ownership of it at the same time, if they want it.
Where would the money drawn out of paper gold end up? The stock market?
I am perplexed then what the price of gold would become.
No body gives a fuck anymore. The Banks won. Fuck em. Let them rob us blind..Now, Can i finish eating my dinner and playing with my new IPORN.. I mean, IPAD? Im trying to download some Ron Jeremy and Tom Byron Flicks.
It's not da Government or da people that are getting fleeced, indeed, the people are getting low price precious metals (what a country!). It's the miners that are getting screwed.
Remember, everything, just about, is managed. Not controlled, just managed. Bond prices, stock prices, commodity prices. There have to be some controls in the system. If the big players weren't working for da Government, do you know what the price of oil or rice would be? And, what the social unrest would be? You got a little taste of that summer of 2008. Food riots. $5 gas. Not good.
That's the problem with Jimmy Roger's investment thesis. He's assuming that the prices of commodities move freely with supply, demand, and speculation. What if they don't? What if they are "managed." To make the big money you have to front run the Government, or, at least know what trades are in synch with government policy.
Stocks? Good. Rice? Bad. lol.
Were back to the era of barbaric relic snatching...warnings do not wear gold in public!!!
They are finally fessing up. My Gold Envelope just said that they sell the gold to the US Government Bullion Banks. So cash for gold cause Morgan Stanley can't naked short much longer.
US government is buying all da Bling...Jacob the jewler is out and on parole for his part in the Rap/Bling conspiracy, note to Jacob, don't fuck with governments gold chain of command...lol
Did you hear Blomberg radio this am. Kitco guy saying gold should be at $939.
This has really got them rattled. Their coming out of the woodwork to sway people.
Funny they don't do that with oil?
Vicelord,
Why are you bothering to read this site then? Just go to CNBC and keep buying stocks.
Some of us are looking for a return of capitalism, not this Wall street, Washington manipulation crap!
someone mentioned gold mining stocks. I see that it may very well be a way to increase wealth. But:
Is that not a form of paper gold?
What happens when the mines get nationalized?
Thoughts?
Don't own stock in any Amerikan mining companies (or companies that own mines on Amerikan soil).
If they get nationalized like Venezuela's gold mines, then you're SOL.
here's a suggestion, guys....every story on the bloomberg site carries a reporter's name and email address.
i've been writing them.....today, as we can see JPM is trying now to engineer a takedown....so i've been inviting them to watch along with us.
i've also suggested that it is likely the story will run in the Enquirer before it hits Bloomberg or the Times, and the Enquirer will finally get the Pulitzer it deserves.
you can also write the Times reporters .. there you've got to click thru to the story, then hit the reporters' names, and then you get to a page where you can write directly to them.
why don't we just email bomb them, telling them that we know.....and we are not going to shut up.