This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Life In America's Most Dangerous City About To Become "Living Hell" As Layoffs Of One Quarter Of Government Labor Force Begin

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Life in Camden, NJ has never been fun. Frequently ranked as America's most dangerous city, whose only claim to fame are the corporate offices of Campbell's Soup, Camden is about to get even more dangerous as it is among the first to experience wholesale cuts to its government labor pool. Bloomberg reports that "as many as 383 workers, representing one-fourth of the local government's work force, are expected to lose their jobs, including about half the police force and one-third of the city's firefighters." It seems cuts have already commenced: "police officers are turning in their badges as part of deep municipal layoffs that began Tuesday." It's a good thing then that unlike the rest of the world, New Jersey does not (yet) have surging food inflation as otherwise one may be tempted to argue this could be a rather interesting hot spot in the future, especially with the local police force deciding to find better pastures even as it starts collecting 99 weeks of unemployment benefits.

From Bloomberg:

Firefighters are planning to march to City Hall on Tuesday, and Mayor Dana Redd is planning a noon news conference to talk about the layoffs in a city facing a huge budget deficit and declining state aid.

The officers began turning in their badges Monday as it became clear that no last-minute deal was going to save many jobs.

Located directly across the Delaware River from Philadelphia, Camden is rampant with open drug-dealing, prostitution and related crimes. More than half of Camden's 80,000 residents, mostly black and Hispanic, live in poverty.

The anti-crime volunteer group Guardian Angels also says it will patrol Camden, as it has Newark, where there were major police layoffs in November.

The fire department, meanwhile, has already been relying on help from volunteer departments in neighboring towns. Interim fire chief David Yates, who retired Jan. 1, has warned that that layoffs will increase response times.

A local pastor says "the fear quotient has been raised," and a police union took out a full-page newspaper advertisement last week warning that Camden would become a "living hell" if layoffs were not averted.

Of course, this being Camden, the only thing that could really push the city to recreate the living conditions of Hades would be a surge not so much in the price of food, or even iPads, but crack cocaine. And according to the Chairman there is substantial slack in the drug production vertical. Which means there are at least a few months before Camden becomes ground zero for what happens when surging inflation and insolvent municipalities mix with curious consequences.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:25 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Earl would fix it, but he was laid off a couple of years ago.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:26 | Link to Comment jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Think for a moment that just one month's salary and compensation for just one BofA exec could have paid the entire salary of all 400 of those laid off. Only God can save us now.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Yes, but think of all the good that that one BofA exec does!

...  oh, wait  ...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture
Life In America's Most Dangerous City About To Become "Living Hell" As Layoffs Of One Quarter Of Government Labor Force Begin [...]

Hey, you anti-libertarian mouthpiece! Truth is that Camden officials are simply on track to implement a libertarian heaven in NJ: small government.

No tax money for the government fat!

Why don't we go the whole way and implement the libertarian paradise of no government and no taxes? Somalia, here we come! :-)

Next step in the plan: eliminate another evil piece of government regulation and make crack cocaine legal. (Extra packs will be sold at schools, with toys included.)

Another evil government regulation they are about to eliminate are building permits and zoning restrictions. Free citizens want to build freely on their own damn property!

(And unstoppable fire-storm rolling over the city due to a gas station being built 10 feet away from the firework factory and a primary school is just a fact of life everyone has to get used to. It had to be built so for business efficiency, it's none of the government's business to meddle with that.)

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment viahj
viahj's picture

homework lesson for you today: explain the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist because you obviously don't have a clue.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:39 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

explain the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist

Ok, let me try:

An anarchist is an honest libertarian?

 

Because, frankly, no-one has yet succeeded in outlining a valid, consistent boundary of how far government could go in a libertarian society that I've seen.

Would building permit regulations and laws be present in the libertarian vision? Would there be a tax financed military? Would there be tax financed financial regulation? Would there be a tax financed police force? Firefighters? Teachers? Expensive fundamental research that no corporation is willing to touch because it's only profitable in a 30 years timeline? Public roads? Health care for the elderly? Health care for the not so elderly? The Coast Guard?

Does a libertarian realize that such kinds of public goods and services, which make up modern civilization, need tax financing?

Where does a libertarian draw that line rationally?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:44 | Link to Comment Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

Where does a libertarian draw that line rationally?

Here's a good start....  the line is drawn between what benefits them directly, verses what benefits others.



Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:56 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

Here's a good start....  the line is drawn between what benefits them directly, verses what benefits others.

What happens if others are drawing the line elsewhere, for entirely reasonable (and similarly selfish) reasons?

In fact what happens if other libertarians (say those who are older and receive Medicare, or those sailing the open seas regularly) draw the line differently regarding Medicare or the Coast Guard?

I'm curious, do libertarians recognize the concept of a democracy, or is there some head honcho libertarian who calls all the shots, who draws the line so to speak, and if you dont follow him you get the libertarian treatment? (Guns, ammo and some other stuff I forgot -  the Giffords might know the details.)

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

What happens if others are drawing the line elsewhere, for entirely reasonable (and similarly selfish) reasons?

It's simple.  You just grab your machine gun and kill them - survival of the fittest, remember?  Saddle up the Camaro and reload, baby. 

The trick with libertarianism is to not think too deeply about it.  Plus, total ignorance of American banking history for the 20 years prior to the creation of the Fed is particularly helpful, especially when coupled with a really deep coma during a discussion of 1893, 1895 and 1907. 


Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:21 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

The trick with libertarianism is to not think too deeply about it.  Plus, total ignorance of American banking history for the 20 years prior to the creation of the Fed is particularly helpful, especially when coupled with a really deep coma during a discussion of 1893, 1895 and 1907.

I think the proper libertarian answer to that is that the banking excesses of 1893, 1895 and 1907 were caused by the banking industry anticipating the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913. (There is a rumor of a Fed time machine as well.)

So those banking excesses that happened in the libertarian 'Gilded Age' of America were clearly the fault of Bernanke.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:44 | Link to Comment tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

thank you for telling some truth!

hot tub time macine?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

you're not helping....

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:35 | Link to Comment tellsometruth
tellsometruth's picture

Clews further states, "The Panic of 1837 was aggravated by the Bank of England when it in one day threw out all the paper connected with the United States."

contraction of credit has been the cataylast many times!

www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

cont:

The Bank of England, of course, was synonymous with the name of Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild. Why did the Bank of England in one day "throw out" all paper connected with the United States, that is, refuse to accept or discount any securities, bonds or other financial paper based in the United States? The purpose of this action was to create an immediate financial panic in the United States, cause a complete contraction of credit, halt further issues of stocks and bonds, and ruin those seeking to turn United States securities into cash. In this atmosphere of financial panic, John Pierpont Morgan came into the world. His grandmother, Joseph Morgan, was a well to do farmer who owned 106 acres in Hartford, Connecticut. He later opened the City Hotel, and the Exchange Coffee Shop, and in 1819, was one of the founders of the Aetna Insurance Company.

George Peabody found that he had chosen well in selecting Junius S. Morgan as his successor. Morgan agreed to continue the sub rosa relationship with N.M. Rothschild Company, and soon expanded the firm’s activities by shipping large quantities of railroad iron to the United States. It was Peabody iron which was the foundation for much of American railroad tracks from 1860 to 1890. In 1864, content to retire and leave his firm in the hands of Morgan, Peabody allowed the name to be changed to Junius S. Morgan Company. The Morgan firm then and since has always been directed from London. John Pierpont Morgan spent much of his time at his magnificent London mansion, Prince’s Gate.

One of the high water marks of the successful Rothschild-Peabody Morgan business venture was the Panic of 1857. It had been twenty years since the Panic of 1837: its lessons had been forgotten by hordes of eager investors who were anxious to invest the profits of a developing America. It was time to fleece them again. The stock market operates like a wave washing up on the beach. It sweeps with it many minuscule creatures who derive all of their life support from the oxygen and water of the wave. They coast along at the crest of the "Tide of Prosperity". Suddenly the wave, having reached the high water mark on the beach, recedes, leaving all of the creatures gasping on the sand. Another wave may come in time to

51

 

save them, but in all likelihood it will not come as far, and some of the sea creatures are doomed. In the same manner, waves of prosperity, fed by newly created money, through an artificial contraction of credit, recedes, leaving those it had borne high to gasp and die without hope of salvation.

Corsair, the Life of J.P. Morgan,34 tells us that the Panic of 1857 was caused by the collapse of the grain market and by the sudden collapse of Ohio Life and Trust, for a loss of five million dollars. With this collapse nine hundred other American companies failed. Significantly, one not only survived, but prospered from the crash. In Corsair, we learn that the Bank of England lent George Peabody and Company five million pounds during the panic of 1857. Winkler, in Morgan the Magnificent35 says that the Bank of England advanced Peabody one million pounds, an enormous sum at that time, and the equivalent of one hundred million dollars today, to save the firm. However, no other firm received such beneficence during this Panic. The reason is revealed by Matthew Josephson, in The Robber Barons. He says on page 60:

"For such qualities of conservatism and purity, George Peabody and Company, the old tree out of which the House of Morgan grew, was famous. In the panic of 1857, when depreciated securities had been thrown on the market by distressed investors in America, Peabody and the elder Morgan, being in possession of cash, had purchased such bonds as possessed real value freely, and then resold them at a large advance when sanity was restored."36

Thus, from a number of biographies of Morgan, the story can be pieced together. After the panic had been engineered, one firm came into the market with one million pounds in cash, purchased securities from distressed investors at panic prices, and later resold them at an enormous profit. That firm was the Morgan firm, and behind it was the clever maneuvering of Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild. The association remained secret from the most knowledgeable financial minds in London and New York, although Morgan occasionally appeared as the financial agent in a Rothschild operation. As the Morgan firm grew rapidly during the late nineteenth century, until it dominated the finances of the nation, many observers were puzzled that the Rothschilds seemed so little interested in profiting by investing in the rapidly advancing American economy. John Moody notes, in The Masters of Capital, page 27, "The Rothschilds were content to remain a close ally of Morgan... as far as the American field was concerned.’37 Secrecy was more profitable than valor.

__________________________

 

34 Corsair, The Life of Morgan

35 John K. Winkler, Morgan the Magnificent, Vanguard, N.Y. 1930

36 Matthew Josephson, The Robber Barons, Harcourt Brace, N.Y. 1934

37 John Moody, The Masters of Capital

SECRETS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE

The London Connection

By

Eustace Mullins

Dedicated to two of the finest scholars of the twentieth century

GEORGE STIMPSON

and

EZRA POUND

Who generously gave of their vast knowledge to a young writer to guide him in a field which he could not have managed alone.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I wish to thank my former fellow members of the staff of the Library of Congress whose very kind assistance, cooperation and suggestions made the early versions of this book possible. I also wish to thank the staffs of the Newberry Library, Chicago, the New York City Public Library, the Alderman Library of the University of Virginia, and the McCormick Library of Washington and Lee University, Lexington, Virginia, for their invaluable assistance in the completion of thirty years of further research for this definitive work on the Federal Reserve System.

About the Author

Eustace Mullins is a veteran of the United States Air Force, with thirty-eight months of active service during World War II. A native Virginian, he was educated at Washington and Lee University, New York University, Ohio University, the University of North Dakota, the Escuelas des Bellas Artes, San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, and the Institute of Contemporary Arts, Washington, D.C.

The original book, published under the title Mullins On The Federal Reserve, was commissioned by the poet Ezra Pound in 1948. Ezra Pound was a political prisoner for thirteen and a half years at St. Elizabeth’s Hospital, Washington, D.C. (a Federal institution for the insane). His release was accomplished largely through the efforts of Mr. Mullins.



Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:03 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

News flash: if you go back 150 years then you can find cases where something other than libertarian excesses caused a bank panic!

Film at 11!

Really, it's pretty telling that you did not reply to the specific dates nor to the time period:

The trick with libertarianism is to not think too deeply about it.  Plus, total ignorance of American banking history for the 20 years prior to the creation of the Fed is particularly helpful, especially when coupled with a really deep coma during a discussion of 1893, 1895 and 1907.

Let me guess, you are a libertarian and you have trouble concentrating and staying on topic? :-)

 

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 02:02 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

John Pierpont Morgan company always was a subsidiary of  the Bank of England, of course, was synonymous with the name of Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild.

Now, it becomes perfectly clear why the FED were bailing out various international banks and ruining the USA: the FED is NOT an American Bank. It belongs to and represents interests of foreign Banks, particular the rotten Rothschild family.

It is indeed the right time for America to have the second war for independence.

 

PS

I am looking forward to see how Chinese will destroy the cancerous Rothschild banking cartel.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:11 | Link to Comment downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I think many libertarians abhor democracy in its current incarnation. The argument often cited is that it is (or has become) sort of a mob rule where the rights of the minority are infringed upon by the majority. Of course, you should probably have your head checked if you think what we have is an actual democracy. I understand the underlying concept behind it, but I just can't match the ideal with reality.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:21 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

The most frequently infringed-upon 'right' that I've seen libertarians mention is the right to not pay taxes.

What they miss is that if they do not pay their fair share of a modern civilization's costs (and civilization is not cheap: roads, defense, judiciary, police, etc.) then they are freeloading on all the others.

Just like you have to pay your rent if you rent a shop in a shopping mall. You have no 'right to freeload'. As a shop-owner you dont have the "right to all your revenue" - you must pay the rent. Libertarians, for some unspecified reason, fail to apply the same concept to modern civilizations.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:33 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

But we don't want the services provided by government. That's why we'd prefer not to pay. It's nothing like renting a shop in a mall by choice. Why pretend that it is?

If you really believe that those who do not wish to pay for unwanted items are freeloaders then will you buy the ball of lint I have in my pocket for $10,000?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:53 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

You want no military? No police? No judiciary? No public roads?

Wow, really wow!

Or if you want them, what makes them special?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:04 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Any service I require can be provided more efficiently by the private sector.  Also, no one in the private sector is going to commit mass murder against Iraqi and Pakistani women and children and then send me the bill with the claim that they did it for my freedom.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:31 | Link to Comment OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Couldn't agree more, Crockett.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:36 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

Good luck trying to find an affordable private health care provider if you have an expensive to treat chronic illness as a pre-existing condition ... Californians could tell you volumes about how much fun it is to be in the high-risk pool ...

Now imagine there was no high-risk pool either - entirely legal in a 'private insurance only' world view. You are ill? Tough luck, we wont insure you ...

They prefer to insure the healthy and kick out the ill.

Not a problem to you as you'll always be healthy, due to a superior libertarian lifestyle, right?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:43 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Government regulation has limited competition amongst insurance providers thereby raising costs. Are you suggesting that only government can fix the problems that government itself has created?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:51 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

Erm, it's profit-maximizing 101 that there's no profit in treating a chronically ill person who cannot pay for that treatment - there's a massive financial loss involved with it.

Ergo, insurers are not taking such people voluntarily, unless forced to.

No amount of competition between private companies will solve that fundamental problem.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Ergo, insurers are not taking such people voluntarily, unless forced to.

 

Thanks for presenting one more example of how government claims to be our only hope when it was government itself that caused the problem.

Before the government began subsidizing the medical establishment costs were dramatically lower. When those costs became burdensome for patients they could depend on friends and family for financial help -- help which is no longer available because a vast array of government agencies now confiscate more than half of every dollar the working man earns.

Your centrally planned safety net has taken us from a world where people looked out for each other out of mutual affection and dropped us into a hell where we as taxpayers must be forced to pay for the skyrocketing costs of government regulated medical and insurance schemes.

Sat, 01/22/2011 - 14:27 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

Good luck getting your 'friends' to pay for a $50K+ treatment per year :-)

Also, I'm not sure about you, but the notion to beg rich friend for help (assuming you are lucky enough to have rich friends) is not particularly appealing to me. Many people would rather commit suicide than to be a constant financial drain on friends and family. Especially when they have a medical condition that has a low life expectancy. You are rationing your loved ones in a very cruel way ...

It's a pretty cruel and heartless society you are imagining there. Fortunately, as the last hold-out amongst modern developed nations the US is finally getting universal healthcare as well, so your utopian nightmare society will probably never become reality.

And if you think social responsibility can be covered with 'charity', that's an easy feel-good excuse and another right-wing myth.

Here's the list of the most charitable countries on the planet, on an "annual percentage of income given to charitable causes":

How charitable is the average US citizen? Only 0.20% of the average income ...

So it turns out that those 50% top tax bracket 'big wellfare nanny-state' losers in Europe are giving two to five times more money per capita to charitable causes than the USA which has a top tax bracket of 35%.

So you have 15% less taxes at 35%, but are only willing to spend a measly 0.2% of your income 'voluntarily'. Wow, how pathetic!

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 20:54 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Hey look! My house is on fire! And the damn insurance companies won't let me insure it now it's on fire!

Help me, Leviathan!

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:00 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Pre-existing Condition

A man walks into an insurance agent’s office and asks to purchase a $100,000 home owner’s policy. The agent writes the policy and tells the man that the annual premium is $500.

The man writes a check for $500, hands it to the insurance agent and says, “Perhaps I should mention that when I left my house it was fully involved in a five alarm blaze, if you look out your window you can probably see the smoke from here.”

“Oh my God, that’s horrible!” shouts the agent as he gazes at the smoke on the horizon.

“Well it’s a good thing I have insurance,” says the man. “I’ll be needing that $100,000 as soon as possible; can you cut me a check?”

 

http://crockettalmanac.com/?p=26

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:36 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Unfortunately, your fairy tale runs headlong into the 'fortuity doctrine'.  Amount the insurer pays...zero.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:38 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Unfortunately, your fairy tale runs headlong into the 'fortuity doctrine'.  Amount the insurer pays...zero.

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 18:41 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

You really don't understand what private insurance companies are doing wrt. preexisting conditions, do you?

They try to avoid patients that are unlucky enough to develop an long-lasting, expensive to treat medical condition.

It's not about a "house on fire" situation.

If you got born with a hidden illness that becomes full-fledged when you are 30, you can easily end up with no health insurance in a fully private setup. Totally not your fault, still it can happen.

Yes, the private insurer will treat you for some time, but your premiums will go up slowly but surely, and if you lose your job and coverage then to any other insurer you are an expensive patient with a 'pre-existing condition'.

You had insurance, still you are essentially black-listed for the rest of your life, and your condition can put your family into misery.

Allowing that in simply not civilized and basically all countries except the US do not allow that situation to occur. It's not like people are flocking to attract expensive to treat illnesses.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:12 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Using governmental force to impose a vision on others is intellectual sloth
and typically results in unintended, perverse consequences.

Two people who exchange property voluntarily are both better off or they
would not do it.

 

Begging the Govt to take property from someone because YOU are too chickensh!t to do it yourself sez a lot about you...

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 18:43 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

People who have chronically ill children who are rejected by 'private' insurers beg to differ ...

Are they chickenshit for attracting an expensive to treat medical condition?

If yes then you are a pretty cruel man.

 

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 19:51 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

...

Fri, 01/21/2011 - 19:52 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

...

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 00:39 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

So where do you draw the line?  I'll be the first one to admit that I have never been able to call myself a true libertarian because I have never been able to follow the blueprint to an acceptable outcome. (As you point out above)

That said, I'm the first one to admit that I'm more than willing to go to my shack in the woods and never see another living soul again.  If I get eaten by wolves in six months, so be it.  Karma.  If a couple dozen million billion (Mako) starve while I'm gone,,, karma again isn't it? 

You fail to explain where you want the current system to end.  I will explain where I want it to be.  It's really very simple.

1.) Personal freedoms. You say that I just don't want to pay taxes.  You're half right.  I don't mind paying taxes, but I don't like throwing money into the shithole.  If you honestly want to defend the current bloated piece of stinkfuck we have now then you disappoint me; you're smarter than that.  Give me an idea! Something we can build off of, rather than you and Repugnifuck making Camaro jokes and assuming we're too stupid to understand what we ask for!  I understand this is a months long argument in itself, but believe me when I say that I'm not anti government.  I'm anti FEDERAL government.

2.) Personal responsibility.  Here's the Libertarian in me.  I don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut what you do.  Here's the deal: If you screw with me, my family, or my friends,,, I will mess you up.  It's real simple.  If you want to fornicate with goats and marry emus,,, have at it.  Just don't ask me to pay for research trying to find a cure for the feathers that are growing out of your dick.  If you are hungry, I might feed you if I have extra.  I might not.  It's not for you to decide if I have the extra.  Hopefully I will have done well enough that I can help others when they are down, and they will help me if the shoe hits the other foot. 

Yes, I understand what I say.  I understand exploitations and injustices, fuedalism and oligarchies, monarchies and tyrannies.  I got some news for ya: Life aint fucking fair.  Maybe in our haste to make sure that everybody made a minimum wage of $75,000, had a jetski and an IPad, we forgot to stop and look to see if it was sustainable.  Sure, you can put a gun to my head and make me support 19 little crack babies in a ghetto, but at what cost?  And I mean real cost.  In order to "sustain" this clusterfuck of a human race we've grown, we've turned ourselves into little better than Tyson Butterball People.  Vaccinated with 3 times the meds. minutes after birth,  fed food that has so little organic value anymore that we're sicker than ever.  OH but Wait!! We have a pill for that!!  Who the fuck knows what you're going to catch from taking it, but with a good quality feeding tube and respirator you'll live to be 106.  We're told what to do from the moment we get out of bed, til the minute we get home.  And you guys think that Libertarians are off their rockers?  Ignorant? 

Comfort doesn't mean quality, People. 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:38 | Link to Comment downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

"The most frequently infringed-upon 'right' that I've seen libertarians mention is the right to not pay taxes."

This is because libertarians believe that many of "civilization's costs" can be addressed more efficiently by the private sector. Where you draw the line is where your personal philosophic worldview allows you to. Personally, I am for paying a small tax in order to adequately fund fire departments and police.

I think roads can be done much more efficiently by the private sector. School is a no brainer. I mean just look at where the government monopoly on education has left us. It is about control and absolutely not about learning HOW to think, which is waaaaaayyyyy more important that knowing WHAT to think. The courts would be tricky to do in a libertarian society, but to suggest that the current government run court system is fully objective is almost laughable.

 

I am working on a philosophy of anarchy 2.0. I am just in the beginning stages of cogitation, but I understand why anarchy hasn't been sustainable in the past. Specifically, every individual human, left unchecked, allows themselves to degenerate to their most base instincts. People say this is human nature, but I believe in choice, so I reject the notion that it has to be this way.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:55 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

Personally, I am for paying a small tax in order to adequately fund fire departments and police. [...]

How about the miliary and similar forms of defense against common dangers?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:27 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

The US military IS a common danger. And the entire world is paying for its depredations via the petrodollar.

But that point aside, the US military could be shrunk 95% and the US would still be safe. I think you'd find most libertarians would be happy to pay for that remaining 5%, or would join a militia part-time to do their bit.

As for an organised  military being needed to fend off common dangers: the Afghans don't pay income tax, and they're doing pretty well against the foriegn invaders, wouldn't you say?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 23:52 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Honestly, the US military has already been shrunk 95%.  It's all equipment these days, when it used to be people.

There are costs and benefits to such an approach.  I know it sucks, but it's not quite simple, just like everything else.

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 18:37 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

I was referring to its budget, not its head count.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:12 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

I think roads can be done much more efficiently by the private sector.

There's a pretty good precedent for that: check how slowly broadband got expanded into rural areas.

Private providers maximized their profits: they concentrated on the most profitable urban areas. They not only under-developed other, non-profitable areas, but they used their monopolies to squeeze out smaller local competitors.

Only government regulation forcing telecom providers to distribute services more fairly improved the situation - but only a bit.

It's similar with roads, except that roads are MUCH more expensive to build and maintain in less populated areas than a cell tower every 30 miles ...

Common infrastructure is not something that is efficiently done by private companies, not by a long shot. They monopolize and they under-develop.

Of course unless you believe in some sort of urban utopia where the countryside is left to rot. That is what medeival Europe was for hundreds of years: infrastructure was concentrated into cities - villages were under-developed and unsafe - people were starving, poor and uneducated/unskilled. Younger village people flocked to citizes whenever they had the chance - and were happy to pay the higher taxes there. (and those cities were stinking holes compared to today's cities.)

It was not a particularly happy place to live in.

I think you really do not know what you are asking for if you think that private companies should be doing common infrastructure ...

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:29 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Around where I live (in the UK) one of our roads is regularly resurfaced... whether it needs it or not. Why? Because the local council will lose its annual road-reparing budget if it doesn't use it all up... do you think this would happen if we the locals had to pay? No.

Forcing companies to provide infrastructure to rural areas at the same (or similar) prices as they do to urban areas just means the urban areas subsidise the rural ones. Gasp! Yes! The money to pay for this has to come from somewhere!

Your statist 'examples' of what life would be like in a libertarian society by recalling what it was like back in medieval times are absurd. If you are talking about Western Europe, feudalism was dominant, where a few wealthy landlords - the nobility - had absolute power over their serfs. There was no rule of law to speak of, wage controls were rife, and in many areas, serfs were 'bonded' to their masters by law. How is that in any way comparable to libertarians' visions of how a state should be organised? Answer: it isn't.

There's absolutely no reason why people living in close poximity to each other (urban dwellers) should be forced to subsidise those who chose to live far away from each other (rural citizens). Ceasing these subsidies would push up the costs of living for rural dwellers, and this in turn would be  reflected in rises in the price of their main product: food. So, in effect, urbanites would see raised living costs, but it would all be done through genuine price discovery mechanisms, not through the machinations of the parasitical 'public servants' whom you put so much trust in.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:29 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

Of course, you should probably have your head checked if you think what we have is an actual democracy.

I certainly have the right to go to the polls. Do you have that right?

It's just that every time I (and a hundred million others) vote for my cool local politician who exposes the corrupt politicians of other people, it's always the same end result that I do not recognize as true democracy: bickering, dishonesty and special interests.

Weird - what I really wanted him to do was to hit politicians I hate real hard and to bend things my way (whatever the cost - we might not need that bridge to nowhere, but it's at least our damn bridge).

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:46 | Link to Comment downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I go to the polls too, for the same reason I get drunk and watch seinfeld: it is hard to break a really great destructive habit... lol

I voted for Bender B. Rodriguez for president in the last presidential election. If we want a misanthropic psychotic a-biotic robot to be our elected 'leader', I at least want to get a few laughs while i am marched to my death.

The choice between red puppet A and blue puppet B is not what I would call democratic.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:57 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

The choice between red puppet A and blue puppet B is not what I would call democratic.

That is because you are smarter and more intelligent than the other people who vote, right?

So should your educated vote weigh (much) more than the stupid, short-sighted, manipulated votes of other people?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:40 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Tell me something, More Critical T...: when you are asked the question,

       If 51% of the population vote to eat the other 49%, is that OK?

Do you just chuckle at this amusing conundrum, and carry on believing in Majoritarian Democracy? Or does it make you realise that even if the majority (or, more usually, the largest voting minority) wants to do something at the expense of the minority, doesn't mean they automatically have that right?

Understanding that is the key to understanding libertarians - they believe that everyone has certain rights that transcend the whims of their fellow men.

Democracy should be a means to peacefully depose governments of their power; not a means to depose your fellow citizens of their rightful property, just because you can get a sufficient number of similarly-minded freeloaders to vote some thief into office.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:47 | Link to Comment ToddGak
ToddGak's picture

Wherever the hell they want.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

 

At the line just above the opening of the pants pocket where the fat ass burecrat that can't fit his  overstuffed wallet in.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:40 | Link to Comment More Critical T...
More Critical Thinking Wanted's picture

 

Did you know that US government employees are on average paid up to 20% less than equivalent position private-sector employees?

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:42 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

For doing 80% less work!

Sounds like a deal to me. Where do I sign?

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 00:04 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Personally, I'm all for "public" employment.  And I believe full-well that there should be a relative risk/reward adjustment for the folks who are hold high-security vs. low-security jobs.

What's the equivalent, though?

I was at the DMV recently in Brooklyn, NYC.  There were 3 guys in "security" uniforms making sure no one got rowdy, I guess.  I was there for 3 hours, and during that time, there were 2 occasions when those guys "helped" people find the right line to wait on.

Now I'm perfectly willing to accept that this is a reasonable $7/hr hourly position, and if that was the case, great.

But if those guys were union members with a few years in, making more than $7/hr, just punching the clock until retirement...well...that's just fucked up.  There's no better example of unskilled labor which could be provided by temp workers.  Frankly, it could've been provided by illiterate homeless folks.

And to be clear: I'm a fucking WOBBLIE!  I totally believe in worker solidarity.  I fully believe we ALL deserve the "income" to provide a decent life in exchange for the sacrifice of 30% of our lives. 

But don't even try to make the argument that public employees have made some great sacrifice without working the stats on the claim.

It's just bullshit.  At least in the USA.

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 00:56 | Link to Comment LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

Did you know that... you are wrong?

Most ignore you due to ignorance.

 

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 01:02 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Too easy.

A libertarian is someone who still believes "everyone" has to respect their right to ownership of something.

An anarchist is someone who has gotten over the belief that anyone else is ever going to give a flying fuck what they claim to own.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:25 | Link to Comment OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Next step in the plan: eliminate another evil piece of government regulation and make crack cocaine legal.

Because making it illegal has worked out so much better, right?

What you see in Camden IS the product of government run amok and you take issue with those who would say we can do with less of it?

Perhaps YOU require police, IRS agents and a multitude of inspectors enforcing convoluted regulations to behave yourself and not endager your fellows.  Some of us are more responsible than that.

You want a state-run paradise?  Move to Camden and live it up.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:42 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

++

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Such bs--being a libertarian doesn't mean you abandon common sense.

I will wager that nobody will miss those all those public employees.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:49 | Link to Comment MSimon
MSimon's picture

It can't be a libertarian move. They didn't end the drug war and set up retail drug sales to fund the government (not full legalization - but it is a start).

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 01:11 | Link to Comment sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

It is obvious to everyone that Camden's failures should be blamed on libertarians because Camden has been a solidly libertarian city for the past 80 years. LOL

Back to reality, why is it every time a socialist city, state or country fails miserably, the socialists come out and blame the libertarians?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:17 | Link to Comment downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

PRICKle-down economics!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:10 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, but...

This is typical kleptocrat horse shit.  They will wipe out all essential services rather than cut salaries or fringe bennies for the great unwashed parasites who rule over us.  This routine has whiskers.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

Here's a look at our future, courtesy of Detroit City:

http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/01/detroit-in-ruins/

That's a great site, btw.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:22 | Link to Comment velobabe
velobabe's picture

disburbing, looks like, what War would look like.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Grimbaldus The ...
Grimbaldus The Norman's picture

I'm not sure if anyone's noticed, but... this is a war. Just because a shot hasn't been fired doesn't mean we're not all at war right now. Destabilization is a must to win a war, and that's exactly what's been going on around here.

I'd grumble about this, but I'm sure that a lot of you, in your secret heart of hearts, already knew.

Prepare accordingly.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:13 | Link to Comment velobabe
velobabe's picture

engineered technology WAR. i am from Ohio, so those photos of utter just let it decay, leave to destroy somewhere else. it is subtle, in other parts of this country. i have been humbled myself.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:31 | Link to Comment Sancho Ponzi
Sancho Ponzi's picture

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/business/yourmoney/26every.html

“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment RonnieHonduras
RonnieHonduras's picture

Let's be clear, its parasites who wage the war -- rich or government employee, don't matter none.  Come to your wealth through honest exchange or F>U>.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:14 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Bulldozers, bitches!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:51 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

This is a great site on that subject: http://detroityes.com/home.htm

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:54 | Link to Comment Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I'm surprised that more people aren't salvaging the classic fixtures of the buildings.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:07 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Because that would be work....lol

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:00 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by Sancho Ponzi
on Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:14
#884893

 

Here's a look at our future, courtesy of Detroit City:

http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/01/detroit-in-ruins/

That's a great site, btw.

*******************************************************************************

Thank you for a great site, I am sad for all of the building thats are so beautiful... art deco was a great time, lots of work and art combined to create most of those... it will all be lost forever, it is a shame.

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 07:06 | Link to Comment Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Thanks Sancho...got lost in there for hours. One of the images that may be of use as we regress -  

http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2010/04/hang-this-up-in-your-time-machine/

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:43 | Link to Comment godgunsandgold
godgunsandgold's picture

+10

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:41 | Link to Comment RonnieHonduras
RonnieHonduras's picture

I get the point.  But two wrongs don't make a right.  Both are grossly overpaid and fleecing the innocent in their own ways.

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 00:32 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

OT, but where else but Zero Hedge could an article generate 400 comments in less than 8 hours, with God only knows how many page views (100,000?, 500,000?)?

...let alone the 800 comments+ in past articles of recent weeks.

The most popular articles/editorials in The New York Lies...errr...Times generate fewer reader comments.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Let them eat SOUP!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment JlM CRAMER
JlM CRAMER's picture

The lines at Camden area Walmart stores just got a little longer on the 1st and the 15th.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:32 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Or at 11:55 PM on the last day of the month.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:01 | Link to Comment rack
rack's picture

You need a permit for soup lines

City puts a stop to homeless outreach
Couple must have proper permit to continue feeding dozens each day

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7381016.html

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:05 | Link to Comment margaris
margaris's picture

un***believable!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment TheDriver
TheDriver's picture

Uncle Sugar can't let just anyone make and dole out soup. There's standards to be followed, rules to adhere to, hudled masses to care for. Ordinary citizens wanting to care for their fellow man are a danger to society. /sarc

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:08 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

if our government only watched its financial lines as close as its soup

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:44 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Leviathan at its finest.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

LMAO! I loved the "Crack Cocain" tag TD placed on this post. Prepare accordingly... t

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:37 | Link to Comment Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

I hate the smell of tomato soup in the morning!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:27 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

 

ah, but there is really no inflation. and ben said, there shouldn't really be any problem with municipal finance.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:52 | Link to Comment Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

It Ben said...catchy.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

"ah, but there is really no inflation. and ben said, there shouldn't really be any problem with municipal finance."

It has not happened in 160 years so forget about it.(muni defaults)  I am focused in the 80 year old depression playbook. That is why am am leet. Buy the furken Jersy with "ben" on the back.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

So, 1/4 of the government includes 1/2 of the police and 1/3 of the firefighters.  Sounds like they have a lot of bureaucracy left to cut.

Of course, they'll be the last to go.  Obviously, you cut essential services first.  Did they shutter all of the libraries too?  Turn off the traffic lights?  You've got to pay for all the porn-watchers somehow.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:31 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

Agreed, you beat me to the punch!  Keep the porn watchers, jettison the first responders.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:53 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

++++

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:00 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

more like first Looters.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 20:17 | Link to Comment arby63
arby63's picture

More like street leeches and fascists. Fire the all.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:37 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

While not denying your logic, I'll say, from a municipality's standpoint, there are no greater long-term budgetary threats than police and firefighter's pension funds, thanks to their union lawyers.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:40 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Oh, do they lose their pensions? 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:55 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I would expect so. It take about 20 years of service to get one...and that's not long enough really. Anyone with less than that minimum years gets zip.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:09 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Hey, you better not be insinuating that over 20 years of service means those officers earned the rights to access their own money that they paid into those barely adequate pension plans... cursed unions and their looking out for their members!

/sarc

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

Yes indeed, we should end the barely adequate pensions and refund their money. Gov. employees can have 401Ks like the rest of us.

It's the "barely adequate" (read: grossly overpaid, in most cases) pensions that are breaking cities and states.

 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:55 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Gov. employees can have 401Ks like the rest of us.

 

Gov. employees should find employment in the private sector like the rest of us.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:37 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

 

Well, I guess we wil be finding out fairly soon how some municipalities will be operating with scaled down publicly funded/locally-overseen emergency services...

Congratulations. Let me know how that works out for you.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

How is not wanting to overpay for services which I could obtain more efficiently in the private sector akin to "sour grapes?"

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 20:33 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

lol. You mean like healthcare?

http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Why_Americans_pay_more_for_health_care_2275

 

ie: Some things you just can't get at MalWart. That is why smart countries keep monopoly utilities/services under tight public control. It keeps the inefficiencies transparent, and directly responsible to their actual stakeholders: the general public.

And I know that things like 'accountability' and 'rule of law' are merely 'externalities' to some idealogues, but I think that I can safely assure you that the consequences of private, unaccountable 'security' forces which answer to no nation's laws are of an entirely internal nature to their victims.

Don't worry, once Papspee Cola Inc. has managed to acquire/dismantle the public infrastructure of your city, they will make sure you still have access to clean drinking water, for the right price... DAmN I can't wait until they find a way to privatize breathable air!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sql-aPwX8ac&feature=related

/sarc

I dunno,

"Gov. employees should find employment in the private sector like the rest of us."

sounds pretty 'Why should anyone have it any better than schmeeeee' to me.

MB your profession should look into forming a union if you're so hard done by you have to attack the hard-won benefits of another? (Which, incidentally, you benefit from by proxy).

Regards

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 20:35 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

MB your profession should look into forming a union if you're so hard done by you have to attack the benefits of another?

I'm self employed. What am I going to do, go on strike against myself because I force myself to work at least one or two hours a week?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 21:35 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Ahhh, so it is nothing more than sour grapes after all?

@ IS,

 I like your suggestion; only I wonder if it would actually be cheaper in the long run to pay all these workers back all the money they have already individually invested into their pension plans. I doubt municipalities could afford to do even that right now. No, I think it might be far less expensive to simply cut off their health insurance coverage ( or just blanket label everything a 'pre-existing condition') and simultaneously encourage them to take up smoking, or even better yet: meth.

JK

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:11 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Ahhh, so it is nothing more than sour grapes after all?

What part of "living well is the best revenge" don't you understand?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:25 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

heh,

but only if you don't take too much pleasure in the Schadenfreude of it all, CA. Empathy isn't a crime; though you wouldn't know it these days. Will your pride allow you to be the bigger man, sometimes?

"I'm all right so F#$% all the rest" isn't much of a philosophy, IMHO.

Regards

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:32 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Empathy isn't a crime; though you wouldn't know it these days. Will your pride allow you to be the bigger man, sometimes?

 

Do you think that I speak out in favor of human freedom and dignity because I am against my fellow man? One does not get to be a bigger man by stepping on others or asking the government to step on others for one's own benefit.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:52 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

 

Actually, I am with you: Budgets from cities' to countries' need to be cut, and yesterday. My point is that governments are implementing the cuts using the exact wrong set of priorities. 

With all the boondoggles at the municipal level, all the military industrial complex at the national, and all the politically entrenched bankster access to freshly minted ones and zeroes, I'm just saying there are much, much bigger fish to fry before we start excising essential services or retirement plans honest working people have already paid into over the decades of their entire productive, working lives. All IMHO, natch.

'Freedom and dignity', heh, those words mean so much to an old pensioner surviving on c-grade cat food while you whine about 'having to support her'; falsely.

 Speaking of 'stepping on others', have you checked the heels of your shoes lately?

Regards

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:54 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

'Freedom and dignity', heh, those words mean so much to an old pensioner surviving on c-grade cat food while you whine about 'having to support her'; falsely.

Big government takes the food from people's mouths. I want folks to have the freedom and dignity to live productive lives unsaddled by parasites.


Speaking of 'stepping on others', have you checked the heels of your shoes lately?

Do you have something specific in mind or are you just tossing around innuendo?

Wed, 01/19/2011 - 01:52 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Don't be a wimp about things and become an anarchist, already.  Responsibility and all that shit.

You own whatever you can DEFEND, bitch.

When you get old enough, someone's gonna come kill ya, and it's only your charisma that defends against that shit.

Aw, well.  That same gummit you claim to hate ain't helping ya.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 22:40 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

I had one of the local park police checking my $4 ski pass the other night.  I think we have a long ways to go before we get down to essential services in this vicinity.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:27 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

++++1 Hmmm, I think we can manage..

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:10 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Then I suppose the real question is what is the average length of service for those being let go?  Are they cutting the new guys or are they getting rid of those who are already set?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:38 | Link to Comment Chump
Chump's picture

I don't know about Camden specifically, but state and local government employees in my area are vested after 5 years...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:41 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Holy cow!  Just like the private sector!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:10 | Link to Comment spartan117
spartan117's picture

Not all private institutions have pensions.  And even 401k plans may not have any matching. 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:57 | Link to Comment Dolar in a vortex
Dolar in a vortex's picture

There's plenty of blame to go around, not just the lawyers on either side.

What about the city officials who accepted the contracts?

This didn't just happen, it's been in the works for decades.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:14 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

Ah, yes. Unions are 7% of America's workforce and yet they are still the cause of all of our problems.

Just like Emmanuel Goldstein.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:27 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

So america's richest 1% carries no weight?  I think you need to include some additional figures before making your conclusion...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:34 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I was being sarcastic.

Google Emmanual Goldstein.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Doubleplusgood.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:51 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Thank you to all my junkers...  medium be ignored...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Goldstein, bitches!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

The cause of all our problems?  No, not by a long shot.  They are of course a significant cause of the wave of municipal defaults coming down the line.  Of course, the unions did not hold a gun to any ones head to get those exceptionally generous contracts..  Oh wait, the unions pay to elect the people they negotiate the contract with using tax dollars, yeah that sounds fair.  We pick the HR department at my corporation by popular vote so it works out..

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment Agent P
Agent P's picture

"Ah, yes. Unions are 7% of America's workforce and yet they are still the cause of all of our problems."

That's the percentage of the private workforce.  Percentage of total workforce is 12.3%, thanks to the 37.4% of public workers that are unionized.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:37 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

Are you saying that you think that is a big number?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:12 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

All 19 Camden library employees have been given layoff notices.

The prosecutor's office is laying off 68 of 230.

Maybe the problem here is the impression that we can cut government employees without laying off people that you actually want employed.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:29 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Why the fuck does the prosecutor's office have 230 employees in a town with 80,000 people?  Our prosecutor's office has ~5 people and we have ~60,000 people...  did you mean police?

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:35 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

The newspaper article said "Prosecutor's Department". Don't know who that includes.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:56 | Link to Comment JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

not enough.. no matter the number.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:13 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

+ 1 quadrillion in food stamps

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:04 | Link to Comment ToddGak
ToddGak's picture

I'd imagine they have to have a big office to prosecute all the crimes there.  Since it is America's Most Dangerous City.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 19:53 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I'd imagine they have to have a big office to prosecute all the crimes there.  Since it is America's Most Dangerous City."

I don't know why...they've got excellent gun control laws...LOL.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

My favorite, of those who shall not be issued a firearms purchase license;


"To any person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety

or welfare;"

I wonder who gets to make this call?

A firearms purchase license?...ROTFLMMFAO!!!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 18:13 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

had the same reaction. A municipal prosecutors office never has those numbers. A large county maybe 

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:56 | Link to Comment What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

My city went after cops and libraries first.  Last time I went to the city offices there were still tons of people sitting behind desks, most doing little to nothing.  Amazingly, they don't cut the amount of city officials to coincide with the drop in staffing/revenues.  Weird how that seems to work out in their favor every time.

My property taxes went up and they are pretending my home is worth at least 20% over what I could hope to get from a motivated buyer.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment arkady
arkady's picture

Where do you live?  I think what you are describing has happened to many of us, especially the property tax nonsense.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:57 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Of course. They will make the sheeple pay with rape, murder, and being burned alive instead of cutting their cushy jobs and perks; reallly, have you noticed this anywhere else in America, including the private sector? America, where the upper echelons-anywhere- firmly believe in times of peril - 'Let's you and him sacrifice for our greater good.'

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:29 | Link to Comment MiddleMeThis
MiddleMeThis's picture

Right out of high school (a LONG time ago) I had a government job.  You know what I did about 80% of the time?  I read books; my own books that I brought in for entertainment.  And it was perfectly accepted practice to do so. Now, that was a federal job and I realize we're talking about muni jobs, but I can't imagine the administrative jobs at the muni level are much more exhausting. Jeez, I can't believe I quit that job to go to college!

 

Seriously, cut out the fat and keep the enforcers - you're going to need them Camden

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:28 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

This will be interesting to watch......I bet the National Guard is called in in two weeks.....what was that Curt Russel film....Back to New York.....???  here is the new America.....rather than take a pay cut...they destroy a city....

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:31 | Link to Comment Gaston
Gaston's picture

John Carpenter's "Escape From New York" Sequel was "Escape From L.A" and its Kurt Russel...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:43 | Link to Comment breezer1
breezer1's picture

yes, but he is curt...

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

I smell another sequel, "Escape from New Jersey".  And I could help write it.

Moving van, bitches.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:29 | Link to Comment LoweredExpectations
LoweredExpectations's picture

I love it when one idiot tries to correct another idiot's spelling. It's Kurt Russell.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 14:56 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

This will be interesting to watch......I bet the National Guard is called in in two weeks.....what was that Curt Russel film....Back to New York.....???  here is the new America.....rather than take a pay cut...they destroy a city....

My goodness. How do you think America survived for the first 200 years? We didn't have these huge police forces...most of whom write traffic tickets it seems. Welcome back to reality.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:23 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Psst wanna buy some drugs.

Bam bam bam bam. No.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:59 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I wasn't aware the Flintstones had a drug subtext; Scooby-Doo, sure.

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Wilma+shrooms+back of the mystery van, oh yeah..

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 17:23 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The Jetsons certainly did.

"Jane, my crack pipe be empty, so I be puttin' yo' ass on the space corner".

Flying cars, bitches!!

Tue, 01/18/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment anonnn
anonnn's picture

Police Departments in America are hardly 150 years old. Their purpose was to ProtectTheMoney/Monied from concentrated masses of city folk attracted by factory employment, a new phenomena. [Break here to think about that.]

Before there were those large groups of selfish, demanding "workers", there existed loose arrangements og small numbers of Constables, official and unofficial.

Black Swan? What might happen  citizens must depend on each other for support? Golly, who will investigate the occassional disappearance of a local bully, whose absence brings only relief  to 95% of the other citizens? Who would be arrested for slaying the repeat thief who has only a record of causing harm?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!