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Live Webcast From Syntagma Square: Summer Solstice/Vote Of Confidence Edition

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Greek crowds which have already started to congregate at Syntagma square are probably not celebrating today's summer solstice. In fact, they are probably not celebrating anything, since after today's vote in which 155 ruling PASOK party members are expected to vote in favor of G-Pap's government reshuffle, all of them will end up far worse off than if they could merely devalue their currency and tell Europe's bankers and the ECB to shove it. Alas, courtesy of living in a quote unquote democracy, this vastly popular decision will likely never happen in a peaceful setting. So will today's latest protest session in front of the Parliament do anything to change an outcome which the market has already decided is certain and favorable? Below are is a live Greek webcast which may provide clues.

 

 

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Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:33 | 1389288 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

The Banking Mafia has already decided the outcome.  Sadly, this won't matter.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1389360 JR
JR's picture

Right. The bottom line is the bankers have decided that whatever it takes they’re going to continue with this.  If they have to buy a parliamentary election, they have to buy a parliamentary election.  Who are these parliament members voting for? They’re voting for themselves, for money.

The stakes just get bigger… and bigger…

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:33 | 1389481 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The Oligarchy will soon begin in-fighting.  That is a certain sign that the erosion of their power is irreversible.

 Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "0% Interest Rates - Who Benefits?":

http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org

Although buying Greek debt seems like a terrible idea to a normal person, to a person who only looks at the bond market (or only the CDS market) the low price of Greek debt somehow convinced people that they were getting a good deal.  This should serve as a reminder to people, that investing in debt, AKA lending money to people you don’t know, is only a good idea if you are sure you will be paid back in full.  For those holding US debt, thinking this could never happen to you, well, you might want to reconsider.

The other day I was discussing money with someone, and I mentioned that as long as interest rates are at 0% the fundamentals remain the same: expect rising asset, food, and commodity prices, a continually devaluing currency, high unemployment, and basically, speculation will continue to be rewarded over savings and investment.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:37 | 1389507 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"speculation" indeed.  that is not the job of Wall Street though somehow they got it in their head that it was.  how could that happen?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TULYBRHBAs&feature=player_detailpage

anywho "i see business decisions being made this time" since fundamentals always apply.  again "think of it as a professional courtesy."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCnoFyQVZfg&feature=player_detailpage

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:54 | 1389951 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Market Condition


News Announcement Notice

Please be advised that the Greek Parliament has scheduled a confidence vote for 5 PM EDT (10 PM London Time) today. This is typically the time of day with the lowest liquidity, as U.S. trading hours end at 5 PM EDT. You may witness increased market volatility before and after the scheduled event. As a result, you may see increased spreads and decreased market liquidity around this time.

Please note - it is important to manage your open positions accordingly. To learn more about this event, please visit DailyFX.com.

Ohhh yeah baby!!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:59 | 1389368 bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

OPA!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:51 | 1390186 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Other People's Assets

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:12 | 1389407 Cassandra Syndrome
Cassandra Syndrome's picture

If they keep striking and maintain power outages, they could bankrupt the country no matter what the Powers That Be do.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:13 | 1390045 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

Like throwing bad printed money down a massive hole.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:47 | 1390185 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I loathe the bankers but the leftists in Greece and a lot of the public want FREE govt money.  They want Germany's standard of living and Greece produces nothing.  Without manufacturing or high tech or energy - they cannot have Germany's standard of living.    It is not just the bankers.  It is scumbags who want free stuff too.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:48 | 1390637 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Yeah, Germany's standard of living - tell me about it. It actually sank over the past ten years - since...oh nevermind. Meanwhile I am getting used to SPIEGEL stories about rich Greek pensioners that get 2.000 EUR (net) monthly for having worked 30 years...something most Germans, even in the same profession and even when they work 15 years longer, would not get.

In a recent survey, a staggering 96 % voted for Greece to be kicked out of the EU. Still, we get our daily propaganda article why Greece is so fucking important for us and why we can't live without them and why we should send more money to them - oh, did I tell you that we are closing more and more public buildings here - schools, kindergarten, - in some areas they aren't even able to repair basic things in some schools. Something that would've been unimaginable twenty years ago, even after the reunification of our country... (we spent more than a trillion on that one - and it looks like we have to spent 2-3 trillions to rescue people from other countries that will hate us for that and we still have to excuse for being productive and having jobs...)

Let them default. This is just painful to watch. The EUR is a failed project - maybe it would have worked with France, Netherlands, Austria, Finland (I even would've taken Belgium in) - but this is a sick joke.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 13:20 | 1395514 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Well, Greece has tourism... So... I mean, does tourism entail the population actually doing anything, other than being nice to the tourists, and taking some, but not all, of their money?

Greece and Germany are different cultures, and different geographically. Why do you think Germany wanted Mediterranean islands in turn for forgiving Greece's debt?  Because the real estate is valuable, thats why! 

Bottom line, our society is sick, and we have raised people to behave in this way, superficial (concerned only with their appearance), feeling entitled, money is all that matters, fame is more important than accomplishment, who you know is more important than what you know, I could go on, and on.

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "0% Interest Rates - Who Benefits?":

http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org

"The inevitable default of Greece inches closer by the day, as does the eventual death of the US dollar, as world reserve currency.   For people not following the ongoing Greek bankruptcy saga, if you have briefly read the reports of a bailout for Greece you would be under the impression the Greek taxpayers are the ones being bailed out.  It couldn't be further from the truth.  The truth is, Greek taxpayers WANT to default on the debt, they know repaying the debt incurred on their behalf will be a lot more painful than simply refusing to pay the debt.  Debt foisted on the population by politicians, much the same as what has happened in America and Canada."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:51 | 1389346 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

They will be told: "If you vote 'No', it will be the end for Greece. Vote 'yes'. There's another vote on austerity coming, after all!". For the vote on austerity they will be told "If you vote 'no', it will be the end for us all. Don't decide for your people. This is the birth place of democracy! There is going to be a referendum, vote 'yes' and give them the choice.".

Then they will be told there's no referendum.

Simples.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:56 | 1389350 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Riot Dog! Riot Dog! Riot Dog!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:52 | 1389352 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

When does NATO get involved?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:03 | 1389381 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

They don't have any oil... No need for NATO lol

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:02 | 1389586 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Olive oil.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:07 | 1389608 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

And Greece for the lube they will need for this one!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:04 | 1389359 Mercury
Mercury's picture

...all of them will end up far worse off than if they could merely devalue their currency and tell Europe's bankers and the ECB to shove it. Alas, courtesy of living in a quote unquote democracy, this vastly popular decision will likely never happen in a peaceful setting.

Think it's going to be any different when the Feds agree to sweep California's (or pick your favorite agency or muni) debts under the U.S. taxpayer rug?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:00 | 1389372 Corduroy
Corduroy's picture

Sorry - Absolutely not the same thing and nobody in this case is sweeping any debt under the rug

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:10 | 1389389 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Oh, really?

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/each-eurozone-household-will-guarantee-%E2%82%AC1450-greek-debt-2014

" A second Greek bail-out is almost certain to result in outright losses for taxpayers further down the road because, even with the help of additional money, Greece remains likely to default within the next few years. Another bailout will also increase the cost of a Greek default, transferring a far bigger chunk of the burden from private investors to taxpayers. "

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:14 | 1389432 Corduroy
Corduroy's picture

Hi mercury : Im not arguing about Greeces situation - I just have issue with your final paragraph

"Think it's going to be any different when the Feds agree to sweep California's (or pick your favorite agency or muni) debts under the U.S. taxpayer rug?"

I say absolutely not the same thing as there will be no direct austerity required as a result of sweeping such debts under such rugs. Plus I dont think the Fed will ever take the debt and it will be dealt with in a different way. Likely to be the mother of all loans to be paid back at .0000000000000001% interest :)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:22 | 1389453 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The indirect austerity will still be in play though.  Actions such as sweeping the debts under the US taxpayer rug will require the creation of more credit at the expense of anyone who buys food or gas. 

Will anyone notice outside of the ZH walls when that happens?  Probably not.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:39 | 1389501 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Getting big brother to absorb bad debt doesn't mean it magically goes away.  It will likely -at the very least-beget more (U.S. taxpayer) debt and/or a further devalued dollar.  Forced austerity for the public sector may be politically difficult but the austerity for everyone else that results from paying higher taxes and watching your dollars buy less is a near certainty.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:59 | 1389367 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I wonder what syntagma means.

Nonetheless, this is just the beginning. When the real summer hits, I expect to see a few fires, literal and figurative.

July 16th and August 15th are key dates. July 16th is of course Doddering Frankenstein and trinity Test Memorial.

Greece will be a sideshow by August.,

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/thunder-perfect-mind/

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:03 | 1389379 DavidC
DavidC's picture

The Square is named after the Constitution that King Otto was forced to grant the people after a popular and military uprising, on September 3, 1843.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntagma_Square

DavidC

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:06 | 1389604 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Pedant alert!

(j/k. Query posed, question answered. I was going to deliberately mispell something or dangle a participle just to annoy you.)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:12 | 1389624 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Sorry, why? A question was posed, I answered it.

DavidC

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:46 | 1389652 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Like I said: just kidding. In fact I appreciate your appreciation of the English language, and your willingness to assist. A jape (weak, evidently); no offense intended.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:26 | 1389865 DavidC
DavidC's picture

GoinFawr,
My apologies for misinterpreting.

DavidC

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 17:22 | 1390326 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Hehe...He said 'Pedant.'

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 23:41 | 1390524 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


.

But give him a hand anyway folks!

DavidC was obviously too polite to say anything. You, OTOH, can't use that excuse, so: my condolences.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:07 | 1389384 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

You probably think I don't like you, which isn't true at all, but I'm a westerner, and a cynical, tired westerner at that so I probably come off as a dick. But anyway, I'm very curious about your TEOTWAWKI ideas and if you think it's still on schedule. What is the schedule?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:08 | 1389600 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

T minus when youre exhausted thinking about it.

 

I reckon this clusterfuck can continue until late next year , just long enough for everyone to get tired of worrying , especially all the 2012 Mayanites. Then BANG.

So thats 18 months , 24 at a push ,  to get your shit in order. Alot longer than many people think. But still a nice IN YOUR FACE to 95% of the cabbages going about their American Idol lives.

Youre welcome.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:07 | 1389809 Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Contributors all over this site have been predicting another, more severe meltdown for 2+ years now.  Keep waiting/wishing...  TPTB will not relinquish their hold easily.  If we ever see a repeat like 2008/2009 again, I'm not sure it will happen anytime soon.  For illustrative purposes, I've heard for nearly 10 years now that U.S. interest rates have to rise.  Empirically, how has that call worked out???

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 12:59 | 1389369 MonsterZero
MonsterZero's picture

So will today's latest protest session in front of the Parliament do anything to change an outcome which the market has already decided is certain and favorable?

No.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:04 | 1389373 Robslob
Robslob's picture

Well QE 2 has clearly funded the EU banks to kick the can so you can almost feel the need to dump our dollars on Greece in the form of Euros?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:03 | 1389376 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

The trick is getting out of the Parliament building...

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:02 | 1389377 pepperspray
pepperspray's picture

Plenty of space available

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:08 | 1389386 DavidC
DavidC's picture

If it gets through, the Greeks, to a man and woman, will strike and bring Greece to a standstill.

DavidC

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:10 | 1389400 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:16 | 1389439 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You forgot to add the requisite "i am become death destroyer of worlds!" moniker.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:22 | 1389443 optimator
optimator's picture

Waiting for the dawn, which will be much earlier and quicker than usual!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:28 | 1389478 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Didn't they believe in cable ties back then?

Or did they just not care since they were going to instantly vaporize the cables and everything else within 400 yards?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:43 | 1389516 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

that's of course why our bombs explode better these days.  "we have Cable Ties."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:56 | 1389774 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

The cables have to be the same length because propagation time is critical for an implosion device. But if you roll them up neatly you create inductive delays.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:03 | 1389783 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

apparently a few deductive delays as well

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:00 | 1389986 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I am intrigued that a poster with a moniker that is an udder ointment knows such a thing as this.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:19 | 1390057 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

he's just a puppy.... with a large imagination.  now you have to bring "udders" into it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:46 | 1389539 JR
JR's picture

"We are observing the birth of global governance." -- George Papandreou

George Papandreou, international socialist and  scion of a Socialist dynasty whose father helped erect the sprawling Greek welfare state when he was prime minister in the 1980s, now presides over the culmination of his father’s policies - "a sinking ship.'' Today he’s delivering up his country’s infrastructure to the bankers.

As well as being prime minister of Greece and leader of the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) party, he is president of The Socialist International (SI). Papandreou stressed at the UN summit in Copenhagen on December 18, 2009:  "At this time, we are observing the birth of global governance. We must, however, agree to an obligation and be committed to carrying this out.”

PASOK was founded in 1974 as a radical Marxist-inspired party that called for the dissolution of the country’s military alliances and for tighter government regulation of the economy... for the planned excesses of socialism...

The New American reported in June 2009 in the UN's Marxist Plan for Global Government "that one of the most important Socialist International-Sandinista ties comes in the person of former Sandinista junta member Miguel D'Escoto, who now sits as president of the United Nations General Assembly.” Writes The New American: “D'Escoto's UN Commission of Experts on Reforms of the International Monetary and Financial System is chaired by Joseph Stiglitz, who is also simultaneously chairman of the SI's Commission on Global Financial Issues...

 “Stiglitz's 2003 book The Roaring Nineties was described by Bloomberg News as "a cornerstone of President Barack Obama's blueprint to reshape the U.S. economy." Stiglitz, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, "mentored several members of Obama's economic team, including budget director Peter Orszag, 40, and Jason Furman, 38, deputy director of the National Economic Council," according to the Bloomberg story. -- The New American.com, 16 February 2010

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:35 | 1389702 eureka
eureka's picture

Fascism, JR, not socialism - and it is orchestrated from Wall Street, not UN.

Your, on the surface nationalist, in reality globalist-elitist US empire, IS the fascist mafia behind everything you see. It started with Kissinger/Nixon "opening" China for US PRIVATE CAPITAL CONGLOMERATES = ELITE CAPITAL COLLECTIVES, - it continued with US military adventures and "interventions" - i.e. wars for oil, for corporate occupational therapy & corporate wellfare = WEALTH DISTRIBUTION FROM THE US MASSES TO THE US/GLOBALIST ELITE, and expansion of US military bases, - AND, it is being concluded with the USUK's (US+UK) debt & liquidation war on the EU periphery.

Your DENIAL - that THE ESSENCE OF EVIL TODAY - IS and emanates from: A) PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS, and B) primarily USUK PRIVATE institutions, who run ALL USUK government institutions without exception - this, US proto-nationalist denial - is stuck in, and supports,   the tired, old, US pseudo-nationalist, neo-con, hegemon propaganda agenda which is the very foundation of the transnational, corporatist, globalist military-financial destruction of the nation of BOTH A) the western working/middle classes AND B) the western, democratic national state - for the two are naturally entwined and therefore joint targets for the PRIVATE ELITIST CAPITAL COLLECTIVES who are destroying them. 

There is NO socialism at play behind globalist finance - there is ONLY fascism.

PRIVATE CAPITAL is behind all government acts. The rich get richer and the poor and the middle get poorer - and that, is called:  FASCISM. FASCISM. FASCISM.  Get it?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:03 | 1389797 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

come, come.  let's not devolve to name calling.  let's put a happy face on this thingy:

(i was gonna post something but it was too disturbing actually.)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:23 | 1389869 JR
JR's picture

You say potato and I say patattah, but let’s not call the whole thing off… because the foxes are in the hen house and calling them red foxes or brown foxes is not going to save our chickens.

BTW, constantly refusing to except America's economic slide into socialized government (the means of production controlled by state oligarchs) actually supports the oligarchs’ continued takeover.

Have you ever wondered why some of the wealthiest people in the world have been financing Communism, Socialism and Fascism?  It’s for the purposes of their world-wide conspiracy to rule the world as put forth by Bill Clinton’s mentor at Georgetown University, Dr. Carroll Quigley in his book, “Tragedy and Hope.”

Also, this continually blaming of Wall Street leads to the Marxist mantra of blaming big business, and then business, and then capitalism. That is what the Communists do. The financial power that controls Wall Street is the same power that controls Main Street.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:49 | 1389932 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

JR, you don't seem to know your isms from your ists. Time to drop that 'Webster's Collegiate' and think before you type.

"What is Your Online Reputation?"
Ans. Last Year's Man

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:04 | 1389987 JR
JR's picture

This is the final “Pessimistic Scenario” in Griffin’s The Creature from Jekyll Island :

“The demonstrations have been organized by radical organizations advocating the overthrow of the ‘decadent capitalist’ system and the enthronement of socialism in its place. The participants in the street do not understand the words they chant. They are unaware that capitalism has been dead in America for many years and that it is socialism they already have.”

Do you dare to call Griffin “Last Year’s Man”?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:08 | 1390005 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


"I do bite my thumb, sir."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:31 | 1389894 11b40
11b40's picture

EURIKA!!! Well said. Even a caveman can get it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:20 | 1390575 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I'm bored by the whole ideological namecalling by now..... i paraphrased my amusement about this a while ago, when in a post i jokingly wrote "socialistcommunisthitlerstalinfascistjew".

Socialism: Typically financing something that cannot finance itself, from something else that can finance itself - or more often by making (almost) everyone (the collective) pay for it. Someway, it also often is associated with "altruism"... so, doing something for the good of the unfortunate. But thats just purpose.... the "tool" quite simply is financing A via B... which can be used in many ways.

Observation: You almost cannot run any society totally without socialism. That's simply because nothing is perfect - no matter how great, efficient and balanced the planning, there will always remain holes, no matter how small, so at least a little bit of refinancing (socialism) is always necessary. What instead normally is meant with socialism, if this aspect takes up a large part of how society works. So, if the economy is biased towards it.

Fascism: Ignoring all the common biases, fascism quite simply IS the "group image" of the collective, and often a bias towards complying with this image (and thus a bias towards collectivism). Interestingly, just as with libertarianism, there are "lefty" variants of it as well as "rightwing" variants of it. The former tend to put higher focuss on the collective making up its own image (decentralization), while the rightwing ones advocate the image being created or at least promoted by the gov. And just as with libertarianism, advocates who are neither L nor R, are rare. In fact, i view fascism as pretty much the opposite of libertarianism, with both forming a classical dichotomy and dualism (which actually is its opposite, which is why typical libertarians are so biased towards individualism, and why i do have issues with identifying myself as a libertarian, even though i agree with a lot of its core principles).

Observation: You almost cannot efficiently run a society without some fascism. That is because for there to be any common ground in a group, there must be a.... well, common ground. A set of culture and ideas, which most understand. This does not necessarily mean to outlaw all individuality - just means that in addition to individual "identity", there also needs to be a group identity, which at least deals with how the individuals deal with each other on the group level (i.e. conventions). You may get away without a group imagine when you're dealing with 100 people.... heck, perhaps even 1000.... but beyond this, people will need an idea on what this group is about, how stuff normally is done, and so on. What in practice instead usually is called fascism, is not the mere existence of a group image, but instead a strong bias towards it, so that other aspects, especially individual ones, are neglected.

Libertarianism: In practice, contrary to how it likes to define itself, pretty much the opposite of everything i above wrote about fascism. Individual identity, selfautonomy, etc.

Observation: One cannot efficiently run a society without libertarianism. Reason being that it represents the lowest level of the house of cards.... if most individuals are fucked, then what happens to the collective? To compare it with fascism: Just as libertarians ignore collective aspects, and this way would make life the opposite of "liberty" for every individual (thus contradicting itself), fascism does the opposite, by ignoring that a collective consists of individuals, so if no one considers individual aspects, and thus no one actually DEFINES the group image, but just follows it, it is just a matter of time of a minority exploiting it and guiding the sheep, so the whole system corrupts from inside. Still, even though a society cannot function efficiently without at least some libertarianism, what people usually mean by it, is a bias towards the individual. The only reason why libertarianism IMO has not received type of bashing it deserves, is because we're living in a time, where there is actually a lack of libertarianism, and a bias towards fascism.

Capitalism: What libertarianism does for cultural, moral and political matters, capitalism does for the economy: per-case Actor-based economy. That is, transfer of ressources, is made on a per-actor/individual basis.... you trade with "someone".

Observation: You cannot run an economy efficiently without capitalism. That simply is because there are individual aspects in the economy, and there are highly dynamic things, which require rapid "organic" adaption.

"Communism": Considering how much writers about communism have inserted ideological aspects into their writings, it's hard to make a purely technical definition of communism, without being in conflict with at least some definitions of communism. But heck, since when does it bother me, that what i write conflicts with other opinions? :-) So, IMO communism in the broadest sense, is the opposite of capitalism. It makes decisions about economic transactions on a collective scale. It looks at collective aspects, and then from this birds-eye view transfers and allocates ressources. It doesn't necessarily need to be done by a state by this definition, but rather simply is about allocating ressources by looking at the entire economy.

Observation: You cannot efficiently run an economy, without at least some communism. And actually, all current economies do have a communist aspect (by the above definition) - it is that part of the economy, that is currently owned and managed by the state. The reason why an economy cannot efficiently work without it, is because there are collective-wide aspects which are ignored when looking at individual cases reductionist-style. The prime example of this is the unemployment problem, which only is a "problem" because it is not dealt with on a collective level. However, communism in turn fails at what capitalism does so well: Dealing with individual aspects and adapting to high dynamicity quickly - communism cannot do that.

 

A bottom line? Well, is it really needed after the above description? Perhaps i should rather mention something not so obvious: You can find socialism, fascism, libertarianism, capitalism, communism and much more in everything, if you only look hard enough..... what distinguishes things in this regard is not IF they contain something, but how much, and how efficiently those aspects interact, or if they are in conflict, by working against each other, instead of complementing each other (which is what most people are pissed off about).

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:21 | 1390588 GoinFawr
Tue, 06/21/2011 - 19:22 | 1390705 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Your observation that it is Fascism x3 =+3

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:13 | 1389833 eureka
eureka's picture

Seriously, JR, you don't really think/believe that Stiglitz, or any other "socialist controls Wall Street or The Fed/Bernanke or the US Fed Gov.

JPM, GS etc - THEY control the Fed/Bernanke AND the US FedGov.

Obama is not a socialist - Obama is a GS/JPM PRIVATE CAPITAL sock-puppet.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:33 | 1389889 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

+1

How the hell would Stiglitz control anything? Other than writing my old economics text book, and protesting against wars, the guy is an academic at Columbia.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:11 | 1389924 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"The only reason it was sittin' on its perch in the first place was due to the fact that it had been nailed there." John Cleese

Well stated eureka; and, around here, get used to having to repeat that.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:47 | 1389940 JR
JR's picture

Yes, eureka…a GS/JPM PRIVATE CAPITAL sock-puppet who serves his masters by pushing for, sustaining and championing  -- the most widespread food-stamped packed La Raza/Ford Foundation-forced invasion American has ever known; the most socialized government healthcare ever introduced; the largest transfer of the wealth in America’s once solvent Social Security and Medicare trusts to one third the population of Mexico; the continued engineering of atheistic, Marxist family/white male-destroying agendas; the socializing through political correctness the U.S. military; and at every turn the promotion of the growth of government and the reduction of the private sector.

If the oligarchs don’t want socialism for the United States, they better get this guy outta there.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:20 | 1389965 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Seriously JR, you complicit, or just thick as a plank?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 17:04 | 1390282 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Do you really believe that socialism is a program to benefit the little guy, the lower and middle classes? It never has. That's just how it is sold to the masses. The only way nationwide socialism has ever been implemented is via strong central governments. And where those exist, there will be beneficiaries who run the state's businesses and/or are closely allied with them.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul always requires a robber, and the robber always takes his cut.

Socialism and Fascism are closely related in that both require strong central government to enforce policy. It's very easy to switch from one to the other.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 17:53 | 1390467 eureka
eureka's picture

And US PRIVATE entrepeneurs are hugely corrupt. Contracts for defense manufacturing, prisons, infrastructure etc etc etc are paid for with suitcases full of money.

US ranks 30 in world wide ratings of least corrupt countries. Northern EU ranks top ten.

US is not being destroyed by socialism, but by Ivy Ilk Scum - while they sell the US uneducated population a Bill of B.S. about the blessings of "free" markets.

US central/Fed Gov serves Big Bizz - because IT pays the bribes.

Again, this is corporatist-government collusion, and it IS fascism.

We will go over this one thousand times if we have to - until you guys get it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:25 | 1390597 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I never said it wasn't fascism that infects the US. I just said there's a fine line between fascism and socialism. And that what we do have is far away from anything resembling free markets.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 17:51 | 1390484 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Fascism to socialism?

Road apples.

No, it`s easy to misnomer `socialism` `fascism`, since North Americans have been conditioned since birth to do so.

But, even though I have been over this what seems like thousands of times (one per disillusion), let`s make absolutely certain that I have your misapprehensions straight:

Do you think Hitler was really a `socialist`?

Or Stalin a `communist`?

Would you label Norway`s current gov`t `socialist`?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:27 | 1390590 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

What is it about calling socialism a bad thing, that irks you so much? Are you of the opinion that forcibly extracting wealth from a population to redistribute it - in any way - is a good thing to do? Or do you have some other, kinder and gentler, definition of socialism, one that involves voluntary interactions?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 19:44 | 1390623 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


It `irks` me when people spread dismisinformation. What I am wondering is: why doesn`t it bug you?

You didn't answer my three simple questions. Tell ya what, I'll pare it down for ya: Just answer the last one; a simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

"Are you of the opinion that forcibly extracting wealth from a population to redistribute it..."

So you are saying that the whole of society has the right to the wealth of their nation, not just a handful of plutocrats?

PINKO ALERT

Ser`sly though, are you really trying to peddle the whole `taxes nevah did nuttin` fo` me and mine` rote?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:04 | 1390418 eureka
eureka's picture

JR RE:

A)  "the largest transfer of the wealth in America’s once solvent Social Security and Medicare trusts to one third the population of Mexico..."

JR, your above "projection"/exageration suggests you display symptoms of xenophobia

B)  "the continued engineering of atheistic, Marxist family/white male-destroying agendas"

JR, your xenophobic imagination is engineering advanced paranoia - & racism

C)  "the socializing through political correctness the U.S. military" 

JR, is "political correctness" really enough to socialize you?

If so, let me encourage you thus:  Don't be a mouse, be a man - or in other words:

Do as The Lord suggested:

"Fear Not, Have Faith, Love All People, Give All Your Wealth Away & Follow Me."

D)  "and at every turn the promotion of the growth of government and the reduction of the private sector"

JR,  the US private sector large corporations moved to China, from where they control US government (to maximize their profits) and pay zero US taxes - and, I say this, along with every capable observer, not as an expression of blame, nor as an argument for socialism, but merely as a matter of irrefutable fact. Now, if you think that Big Business should not pay taxes, whereas you and your fellow individual workers should - and - if you think Bug Business is the job-providing savior of working men - then, you are of course entirely entitled to continue to believe such fantasmagorical nonsense; indeed, it probably occurs to some readers, and hopefully one day to you yourself, that there may be a connection between your paranoid-xenophobic-racist fantacies - and - your religious conviction of the blessings of Big Corporate Business and the infallacies of unregulated, predatorial, leveraged, financial/debt-driven, out-sourcing, ex-patriating, off-shoring capital collectives.

Pure Capitalism, or rather the fantasy about it, is the religion invented by the financially  leveraged elite - and - it is subscribed to by the poor, wanna-be-rich dreamers, who bend over and take the elite's BIG & PURE dogma - up their arses.  

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:11 | 1389616 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 Critical Mass at Ground Zero

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:41 | 1389723 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Ask anyone what nation suffered the first atomic blast and almost everyone of them will answer Japan, and they will be wrong. The first atomic blast occurred in the USA.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:57 | 1389779 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

But it wasn't regarded as creating suffering.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:49 | 1389948 Fazzie
Fazzie's picture

 Mutated giant jackrabbitts dont count as suffering because they are so cool.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 17:32 | 1390365 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Yeah, but don't ever date one...Consider yourself warned. ;|

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:13 | 1390573 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


Narf narf.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:46 | 1389726 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

"I learnt a new word today.........."

www.youtube.com/watch?v=19UROAIbtlw

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:13 | 1389424 JR
JR's picture


This is the last chapter. Police and riot gear and a midnight vote. The pressure is building unbelievably.  And it’s not just the people on the streets who are protesting. The bankers and politicians are misreading the people at home.

The bankers - the Goldmans and Ackermanns - are going to be really surprised when they don’t have enough police and political prostitutes to vote for them – in Greece and/or the United States.

The pressure today is an indication of the future.

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:14 | 1389430 So Close
So Close's picture

The outcome will be exactly what it will be.  And that will be perfect.  Either the people will throw off the yoke of their oppressors and accept full responsibility for thier situation.  Or they will not.  And it will be perfect.  And it will be OK.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:26 | 1389455 TonyV
TonyV's picture

In fact, they are probably not celebrating anything, since after today's vote in which 155 ruling PASOK party members are expected to vote in favor of G-Pap's government reshuffle, all of them will end up far worse off than if they could merely devalue their currency and tell Europe's bankers and the ECB to shove it.

Yea, that's a great idea Durden. Let's borrow money to host Olympic games. An then borrow some more so that we can retire at 55 while germans retire at 69. An then we need to build up the military so that we rival our neighbour, Turkey. And then we can tell the banks to shove it because we greeks are smart and the rest of the world is stupid.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:52 | 1389564 unununium
unununium's picture

That is the banks' fucking problem.

The only vote that allowed them to devalue the $$ in my pocket to pay for their mistakes was taken on December 24, 1913 in a deserted congress.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:43 | 1389720 TonyV
TonyV's picture

Of course it is banks' problem. They were stupid enough to lend money to crooks

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:05 | 1390007 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

The only vote that allowed them to devalue the $$ in my pocket to pay for their mistakes was taken on December 24, 1913 in a deserted congress.

flag as wisdom (1)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:29 | 1390108 AbandonShip
AbandonShip's picture

To undertstand 1913 you must study 1907 (yet another bank crisis)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:23 | 1389459 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Time to make some popcorn here soon....

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:27 | 1389461 bmovers
bmovers's picture

"Below are is a live Greek webcast"

proofread

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:41 | 1389513 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Really?  THE BEST breaking news website for geopolitical/financial events and you worry about grammar?  Cut Tyler some slack for nature's sake. He pushes out more posts than a crack-whore pushing out aborted fetuses. 

Proofread your own post.  Your sentence of "proofread" is missing capitalization, punctuations, articles, verbs, and a litany of other literary requirements.  

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:14 | 1389630 bmovers
bmovers's picture

I posted that to try to be helpful. They are all great articles. I noticed a grammar error and pointed it out so he could edit it. Nothing more to it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:33 | 1389681 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Gotcha.  I didn't realize you were new here, so I will lay off as well.  Posts here will generally have some grammar and spelling errors.  SOme intended, some not.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1389834 bmovers
bmovers's picture

The past tense of proofread is proofread.

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:16 | 1389841 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Not proofreaded?  Lulz

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:36 | 1390617 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

The past tense of bmovers is bmovedon.

Sorry for the snarc - I'm not usually this obnoxious.  It's just I loathe grammar and spelling nazis.

And it won't make you popular here.  Not that I'm popular - far from it.  But, just, you know ... the slack?  Cut some.

 

Disobey.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:49 | 1389551 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Spelling nazi, you are/is

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:57 | 1390228 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm... a voice crying in the bewilderness... nefarious and
sundry insinuendo and unimportanta.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:28 | 1389466 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Great piece from Greek blog refuting the rampant black PR against the Greek nation:

http://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/democracy-vs-mythology-the-battle-in-syntagma-square/

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:45 | 1389525 Alea Iacta Est
Alea Iacta Est's picture

That was a GREAT read! Thanks for posting.

I love the finish:

"Nassim Nicholas Taleb is the Lebanese-American philosopher who formulated the theory of “Black Swan Events” – unpredictable, unforeseen events which have a huge impact and can only be explained afterwards. Last week, on Newsnight, he was asked by Jeremy Paxman whether the people taking to the streets in Athens was a Black Swan Event. He replied: “No. The real Black Swan Event is that people are not rioting against the banks in London and New York."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:57 | 1389763 eureka
eureka's picture

 

Spot On! Thanks for referencing Taleb - HE is spot on!

“No. The real Black Swan Event is that people are not rioting against the banks in London and New York."

London and New York - PRECISELY - the centers of the scum of the earth.

That's why I conined the term: THE USUKs (US+UK).

The original Globa-Fi-Scum PRIVATE CAPITAL COLLECTIVES Bankster-FASCIST -

who are trying desperately to destroy the EU periphery - because:

EU OUTPERFORMS THE USUKs ON EVERY REAL METRIC.

USUKs - YOU SUCK - LITTERALLY - ALL VALUE OUT OF THE REST OF THE WORLD - 

AND - OUT OF YOUR OWN WORKING AND MIDDLE CLASSES.

Hence - Taleb is right - PEOPLE OF THE USUKs, GET INTO THE STREETS OF LONDON AND NEW YORK - BOYCOTT THE BIG BANKS - DEMAND THEM DISMANTLED.

USUKs, Definition:  US+UK ELITE-COLLECTIVIST, MAFIA, FASCIST, BANKSTERS/GOV.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:12 | 1390028 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

That's why I conined the term: THE USUKs (US+UK).

Orwell called it Oceania.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:56 | 1389972 desgust
desgust's picture

Please add Berlin and Paris!

Continental S.C.U.M.!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:17 | 1390566 eureka
eureka's picture

Berlin and Paris have something akin to real Christian values, which the USUKs long ago abandonned, namely: Fraternite et Egalite.

Alas, the US revolution against King George was largely lead by the local rich, for the local rich and against the remote controlling UK rich.

US substituted Fraternite & Egalite with "justice", which, as anyone with half a brain and any shred of present minded observation has since learned a million times, can be - and is -  bought.

That's right, folks, JUSTICE - IS - FOR SALE - Just like Government Seats - AND THAT - is exactly how big business LIKES IT.

"Pure" capitalism... Yes, and the Tooth Fairy is real too.

If you believe in unregulated globalist corporatist capitalism, you are either on board on the top, getting handsomely rewarded for your selling of your soul - or - you are a blind-faith worshipper of golden calfs - and either way, you've got it coming - and you deserve it.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:11 | 1389618 bmovers
bmovers's picture

great read

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:20 | 1389639 theopco
theopco's picture

wow

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:24 | 1389653 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

" We will not suffer any more so that we can make the rich, even richer. We do not authorise any of the politicians, who failed so spectacularly, to borrow any more money in our name. We do not trust you or the people that are lending it. We want a completely new set of accountable people at the helm, untainted by the fiascos of the past. You have run out of ideas."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:41 | 1390627 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

" We will not suffer any more so that we can make the rich, even richer. We do not authorise any of the politicians, who failed so spectacularly, to borrow any more money in our name. We do not trust you or the people that are lending it. We want a completely new set of accountable people at the helm, untainted by the fiascos of the past. You have run out of ideas."

Sounds like a universal rallying crying if I ever heard one. 

Disobey!

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:38 | 1390139 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

++

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:34 | 1390614 nicxios
nicxios's picture

++++

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:25 | 1389467 Jambo Mambo Bill
Jambo Mambo Bill's picture

What are they talking...

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:27 | 1389473 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

damn Stigmata square.  That's where all the action is these days

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mreo_nZBzzo&feature=player_detailpage

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:28 | 1389479 TomGa
TomGa's picture

Molotov cocktails show up on camera much better at night.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:37 | 1389494 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Molotov cocktail, the local drink.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:43 | 1389524 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

"The easiest way of burning a building is with the Molotov cocktail. It was invented by the Finns when the Soviets invaded in 1939. You fill a bottle with gasoline and stuff a rag in the end for a wick. You light the wick and throw bottle, It shatters on impact spraying gas everywhere and the wick ignites the gas. Simple, readily available, and effective. And only two things to remember.

First, use a glass bottle. Thinner glass is better than thicker glass. You want it to shatter on impact. When I was teaching a kid at the high school on the West Side Worcester, MA. threw a Molotov cocktail into his school. Fortunately, he used a plastic bottle. It burned about three square inches of carpeting. I had to laugh when I said to myself, "Thank God for dumb kids."

Second, you need to tie the rag to the bottle. Nothing worse that throwing a Molotov cocktail, landing where you wanted it, and having it shatter perfectly. Then you noticed the wick had fallen out on the way to the target. No wick-no fire."

- Tom Ball (self-immolation victim Keene, NH) last statement sent to Sentinel from - http://www.sentinelsource.com/news/local/last-statement-sent-to-sentinel-from-self-immolation-victim/article_cd181c8e-983b-11e0-a559-001cc4c03286.html

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:19 | 1389647 css1971
css1971's picture

Mix gasoline ~60:40 with polystyrene for that sticky burny napalm effect. Can be sprayed.

Another easy to find option, you need powdered rust, powdered aluminium and a child's sparkler to ignite. Can burn through, pretty much anything, yes can cut through armour plating. Add water for extra fun.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:34 | 1389687 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

Damn you beat me to it. :-)

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:33 | 1389680 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

I would add that before filling the glass bottle with gasoline one should crumble up some styrofoam until the bottle is abou half full, then put in the gas, let the styrofoam melt in, top off as necessary, then add the wick... Nothing loving like napalm cocktail.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:11 | 1389805 eureka
eureka's picture

Can't wait to see a thousand such delicious cocktails tossed on Wall Street.

Just imagine how pretty JPM, GS et al will look as fireworks.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1389822 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Goddamn it I just couldn't get to my copy of the Anarchist Cookbook fast enough! Now all the easy pickings are taken.

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:36 | 1390038 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

You'd be better off starting with Kropotkin anyway, if you're really looking to 'evolve'.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:33 | 1389492 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

So we get to watch Greece self destruct this summer under new austerity measures. Petro bottle and rock fight tsunami. This is going to backfire big time.    

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:17 | 1389641 CPL
CPL's picture

Rock fight?  you can pretty much buy anything from the gypsies.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:40 | 1389506 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

Greece abandons Euro

Welcome to Drachmas¡

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:47 | 1389543 yipcarl
yipcarl's picture

I hope those Greeks go FUCKING BANANA'S.  They should take a Q from the Palestinians and start straping on bombs, if they want to get anything done.  If not, the Money sludge are going to keep on keeping on.  

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:20 | 1389638 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

There are few truths of this particular world we find ourselves in more profound than the following:

Nothing is going to change until bullet holes start appearing in skulls.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:56 | 1389567 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This will be a jolly good show.

I do have faith that the Greeks will be none too pleased about having their literal lands (that their forefathers conquered) pledged as mere collateral to secure EuroFiats.

Who is the Greek equivalent of Thomas Jefferson, warning of the predatory and confiscatory nature of those who seek to control the money supply of a nation?

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:41 | 1390629 nicxios
nicxios's picture

I'm waiting for that type to emerge.

It's tough when the Greek mass media will not allow anyone to express such views.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:58 | 1389572 CustomersMan
CustomersMan's picture

 

    With all the talk about Greece, I ran across this quote about the Greek Bankers, by Michael Lewis. Its interesting that Greece's Bankers were above all ETHICAL. Unusual indeed. Say what you want about the workers or the government or not paying taxes...but the Bankers were O.K. it seems.

 

Oddly enough, the financiers in Greece remain more or less beyond reproach. They never ceased to be anything but sleepy old commercial bankers. Virtually alone among Europe’s bankers, they did not buy U.S. subprime-backed bonds, or leverage themselves to the hilt, or pay themselves huge sums of money. The biggest problem the banks had was that they had lent roughly 30 billion euros to the Greek government—where it was stolen or squandered. In Greece the banks didn’t sink the country. The country sank the banks."

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:02 | 1389596 MonsterZero
MonsterZero's picture

The democratic country of Greece... run by the people who for years have produced nothing and asked for everything on credit. They have no one to blame but themselves and to this day refuse to own up to the resposibility handed down to them through the generations of looters. The looting of producers will continue until these bottomfeeder Greeks have their handouts taken away.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:58 | 1389781 JR
JR's picture

The international bankers’ plan all along has been to entangle the peoples of the world in socialism - whether they want it or not.  With passage of the healthcare law in America, can there be any doubt that the American System is on track to join the socialists of the world?

Like many Greeks, I’m sure, I do not accept responsibility for this trend; I did not open the borders for Obama’s voting base.  Are the Greeks getting representative government today?  Are they choosing?

The critical factor to remember is that the trend of government these days, be it Greece or America, is not coming from the grassroots; but it is dominated by oligarchs controlling the money supply, country finances, national media, and political parties to the extent that a choice of political direction is all but eliminated.

Fed historian G. Edward Griffin exposed 15 years ago the hidden agenda behind the IMF/World Bank and the role of the Federal Reserve in bringing it about: it is the building of world socialism. The mechanisms for this transformation began at the 1944 meeting in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, at which the world’s most prominent socialists established the IMF and the World Bank “as mechanisms for eliminating gold from world finance.”

National infrastructure is now starting to fall into their hands. 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:33 | 1389887 eureka
eureka's picture

There you go again, JR - IT IS FASCISM, not socialism. Get your facts straight.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:55 | 1389956 desgust
desgust's picture

Get YOU, your cards right. Socialism, fascism, communism it's the same, you stupid mofu

socialist!

IT#s all power of the oligarchy!!!!!!

Where are the REPUBLIC(s) Jeffersonn spoke about and gave you, you ignorant?

 

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:28 | 1390087 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

hhahahahaha! Thanks for that; awesome... you forgot the sarc tag though.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 16:49 | 1390192 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

agree with you completely, JR, but methinks your argument would be better served if you created a new word besides "socialism".

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:42 | 1390630 JR
JR's picture

Tip,

Socialist Paul Krugman defines America as a modern welfare state, as “a private-enterprise economy, but one in which society’s winners are taxed to pay for a social safety net.” 

I cannot play it that way, Tip.  For one thing, although I am being taxed and my wealth redistributed, I do not consider myself a “winner” with a “social safety net.”  Secondly, by foregoing the use of the word socialism, I would be discarding its history and dismissing the reality of socialism’s totalitarianism. I would be ignoring Orwell’s Animal Farm and Nineteen Eighty-Four.

The Socialist International group is active and growing. Self-defined socialist George Papandreou is not only prime minister of Greece but president of SI - which was organized in 1864 and originally claimed Karl Marx as its honorary member.  Its goal throughout several reorganizations is still today, and always has been, one-world socialism.

The oligarchs are very serious, IMO, in their use of socialism to achieve their world governance.

Socialism was the stated goal of Fabian Socialist John Maynard Keynes and Communist Harry Dexter White who were dominant in establishing the IMF/World Bank.  The Communists and Socialists at the Bretton Woods conference that created the IMF may have had differences but they were in harmony on theirs and the Fed’s primary goal: international socialism.

Recommendations of SI’s Brandt Commission in 1980 at UN headquarters in New York City called for: the transfer of resources to developing nations; supranational authority to regulate the world’s industry; international supervision of the world’s oil production and consumption; an international currency; and a “new international economic order.” 

We are far down that road. 

The Fed has emerged from the financial crisis of 2007-2009 with new powers to allocate credit to specific firms, including non-bank institutions, i.e., the Fed is now the U.S. economy’s central planner with the power to designate all economic winners and losers. The globalists already have offshored much of America’s manufacturing base (46,000 manufacturers in the past decade) and most U.S. patents to China.  And, now, after asset transferring of America’s capitalist-based infrastructure to socialist and communist third world labor markets by globalists, a net 28 percent of respondents to a BofA Merrill Lynch Fund Manager Survey now “believe that EM (emerging market) corporates have the most attractive profit outlook. Among global emerging markets investors, Asia is the most preferred market for 58 percent of those surveyed, while Latin America is the least preferred.”

But it’s a false picture.  Socialism, i. e, economic slavery, has never worked; it was capitalism, the kind embraced by Isabel Paterson’s “God of the machine” requiring individual rights, free trade, free markets, personal liberty, private property, and sound money that produced today’s economic miracle.  Without it, the emerging markets will quickly re-submerge into the economic abyss.

 “If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever.” – George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 11:43 | 1390781 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Scroll down and locate the most successful country on the following chart (Hint: it is an example of a `working` economy.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/may/27/debt-deficit-oecd-co...

Now, using your warped political lexicon, describe their gov't. Next step: remove your foot from your mouth and take another big bite of the giant slice of humble pie I've served you.

PS IMO, your comprehension of Eric Blair's work is woeful, which is right in line with your political misapprehensions. Please stop randomly peppering your comments with quotes of his.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 21:37 | 1390852 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Jesus Christ! Are you 12 yrs old? Or a 90 yrs old suffering dementia and mentally stuck in the 1950's?

 

GROW UP. You remind me of that CIA moron Kevin Kline played in "A Fish called Wanda" - the one who never understood the point of anything. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself", just as the central message of socialism is not "economic slavery", and capitalism is not " individual rights, free trade, free markets, personal liberty, private property, and sound money". How can anyone be so stupid in the information age? Capitalism is the use of capital to acquire wealth - ie profit without work. You're one of these idiots who confuse capitalism with democracy aren't you? They are two different things.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:27 | 1389883 eureka
eureka's picture

The intelligent observer must destinguish between A) a people and B) the people's government. If, MZ you read the above post with this destinction in mind, you would understand that Greek government, not the Greek population at large, was the prime corrupting factor - and - FYI, since you may NOT have heard it before: GS rigged the corrupt Greek government with destructive credit loads, because Greek Gov is spawned by US Ivy Ilk Universities AND GS, JPM et al - i.e. the PRIVATE CAPITAL COLLECTIVE MAFIA.

Only idiots blame the bottom (the people) - the buck stops at the top. 

To him who much is given, uch is expected. That includes intelligence & info. 

Again: THE BUCK STOPS AT THE TOP.

Knucleheads who blame the common man rather than the elite, thereby SERVE the elite.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:46 | 1389931 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

You're most likely right about knuckleheads who blame the people in most cases, and SPOT ON about the Private Capital Collective Mafia, but do you personally have any Greek friends? The ones in London tell me that they are the most stubborn spongers they know. No matter how we all love to blame our problems on others, there's one thing about a democracy: In it, you deserve the government you get. Those who can't stand it almost invariably leave when they can. I don't see any Greeks leaving, no instead they are demanding to keep what they have and even more from a broken system. May be they think it will all be rosey when they revert back to the Drachma. I wish them luck.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 19:00 | 1390664 eureka
eureka's picture

No, I don't have any Greek friends, just observation of facts and principles, which here are:

GS rigged Greece, Greek Gov is lead by Ivy Ilk & GS trainees - i.e. "Manchurian" or rather Ivy-Wall-Street'ian Candidates, who are programmed to serve the Globa-Fi-Scum capital collectives agenda, which are to decimate and thus assume nation-controlled assets.

The principle is:

Elite capital collectives have the knowledge & power to manipulate masses. Masses may be "lazy" or ignorant - however, the greater power/consciousness logically, mathematically, has the greatest share of co-responsibility for any symbiosis created between the two, whether it fails or succeeds.

The xternal, yet to me all-over-riding principle is this:  non-dominance is the base of freedom.  As a consequence of this principle, any aledged "Colonial" or "White Man's Burden" type savior complex motivation of the technically (not morally) greater power is purely an expression of vanity and deceipt (of both self and other).

No person, institution or nation in position of greater power, has any objective (but only subjective, namely vanity and material gain) reason or right to decide to "emancipate" another; indeed claims of  emancipatory activity for the benefit of the "recipient" are mostly covers for exploitation and leverage.

Conclusively therefore, whether or not and to whatever degree Greeks work less or more and pay more or less taxes than its creditors, remains entirely a moral, philosophical and political question for the Greeks to contemplate - and similarly, the question of whether to continue to extend credit or to cease such or any other business contracts with Greece, remains a matter for such creditors and businesses to decide.

One thing should be extremely clear - and be beyond philosophy: Capitalism and specifically the business of lending out - and seeking interest and leverage of already leveraged monies - is not a matter of morality, nor of friendship, but strictly a matter of seeking profits by peveraging the value of the labors of the borrower - and as such - both creditors and observers should keep keen the fact that losses from credits extended are business risks, which rest entirely with the creditors.

Creditors need to stop whining - and take their losses - like men.

It matters not, who the borrower is, nor what his alledged character is - what should matter to creditors is that they themselves do their due deligence - and stop pretending to be the saviors of the world.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 21:06 | 1390820 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

In other words, creditors lent money at their own risk. The risk was theirs and if they lose, they should fuck off and drown in red ink.

 

I agree! Of course I do, as well as the pertinent fact that GS rigged Greece. Creditors need to stop whining and take their losses like men. The trouble is, Greece is a part of the eurozone, and Greek debts are euro debts. If it was them alone, we would not be having a discussion.

 

Now see it from my POV. The fact is, the riots outside the Greek parliament are not some revolutionary utopians trying to throw off the yolk of the bankers, but civil servants, the unemployed, the workers unions, and those nearing pensionable age wanting the same as before and more. The riots which facilitate that criminal Papandereou to stay in power to ask the troika for the bailouts (In return for mouthing austerity measures) in order to quell the ravenous crowds outside. He cannot do anything else because Greece has no money to pay its rioting citizens. 

 

From my end in the UK (Despite Cameron's murmuring that we will not give any money to Greece), that means paying my part of the 360 billion euros to bailout Greece via either direct taxes or printing which dilutes my net worth, because guess what? The fucking banks are going to get it from me to pay Greece one way or the other. That's the way it has worked ever we started to bailout the fucking bastard banks - their risks have become ours, and since it concerns not just a bank, but an entire currency affecting 17 countries in the eurozone, it becomes much more important that we do not throw more good money after bad like the USA.

 

It seems to me that we both want the same things from different perspectives. My best scenario is Greece defaulting, leaving the eurozone (reverting back to Drachma), and BBQing their prime minister on a spit. What they do after that is up to them and I wish them luck. Greece will have to default later in 2014 when this 2nd round of bailout money runs out (And they are still in debt), so I just want the Greeks to piss off out of the EU and stop demanding more money as if we owe them any. This Greek tragedy is between the Greeks and their creditors. They should do the honourable thing and take responsibility for it by cutting their ties with the eurozone instead of dragging this drama to their neighbours. 

 

"Lieber ein Ende mit Schreken als ein Schreken ohne Ende." Better a horrible end than horror without end.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 00:55 | 1390980 eureka
eureka's picture

Dear YHC-FTSE - I largely agree with and sympathize with your arugument and your position.  However, I think we have to ask ourselves a few questions RE the assumption that "we pay for the Greeks" - and the questions go something like this:

1) since countries like UK, Denmark, Sweden are members of EU, but not the EUR, could Greece not also remain a member of EU while opting out of the EUR?

The answer, of course, is: yes, it could, after the required legal treaty disentanglements and perhaps ten years of Greek blood, sweat and tears to restore Greek budgets to EU standards.

2) since Greek exit of EU/EUR, of any duration, might inspire segments of populations and political demagogues in other EU periphery countries to consider and advocate exit from EU/EUR and consequential retreat to isolationist/nationalist pursuits without any enticing economical prospects for such countries - i.e. outside EU, with loss of easy and favorable EU market access and trade advantages - would such return to old-time European nationalism and isolationism not vastly punish the working and middle classes of not just those countries, but all of Europe's countries and indeed of the whole world?

My answer is that it would - and thus I think we must acknowledge that beyond mere profit concerns and bankster greed - there are legitimate political and cultural reasons to try to maintain EU integrity. The question then becomes: how can EU membership integrity be maintained WHILE at the same time maintaining as much economical fairness as possible?

Your suggestion that Greece defaults and the banksters take their losses is very attractive from a purely economical fairness point of view - i.e. banksters lose their lousy bet on subpar productive population, and that subpar population loses its future credit worthyness and thus its "free ride" on the coattail of lenders. However, this is where the story gets more nuanced, because:

3)  is it not true, that the large lending banks, get FREE MONEY from their respective national banks ? - AND - is it not true that said national banks PRINT FREE MONEY out of thin air - by buying their own treassury bonds?

I think the irrevocable answer is: Yes.  So, therefore:

4  since large banks get "free" money from national banks who print money out of thin air - can it truly be said that taxpayers in the large lender banks' countries pay the losses to the loser lenders and borrowers?

The answer is: No - Not directly - and: yes - Indirectly. However, the indirect payment is caused by the mechanism called "economic stimulus" - i.e. the fact that governments of all political shades "choose" (are told) to "stimulate" their economies by "stimulating" their banks, hoping (aledgedly) that the banks will then lend this "free" money to people, who will then presumably put the money to productive and consumptive use - which doesn't happen, because the banks do NOT lend to productivivty but to leverage and ponzi schemes. SO MUCH FOR THIS "STIMULUS".

This "stimulus", which I describe in the above paragraph, IS - THE EPITOMY OF STUPIDITY AND EVIL - it is an anachronistic, reagan'esque (purposely lower-cased) trickle-down hypothesis, or rather pathetic attempt at justifying the "guilding" of the rich - of course, it is ordered by the rich and their top tier henchmen in GS, JPM, the Fed etc. 

Stupid is evil - and vice versa - and in my opinion there is no more forgiveness in the universe for this behavior. Let me make it very clear to anyone in doubt:

If you want to truly stimulate an economy, you do it by investing in capital goods, R&D, infrastructure etc - i.e. productive and future oriented perspectives - which can be done in a balanced way as a combination of private and public organizations - AND - under strict oversight and rules RE fair and competitive bidding processes, third party and citizen inspections etc to avoid the usual corruption and swindles which are hallmarks of and US business as usual - BUT -  since the US government in particular has NOT invested ANYTHING in capital goods the past four years - but has rather exercised the guilding of the banks/rich - bailing out the Wall Street banksters, who rigged EU's periphery, is it not obvious that it was all done to preseve US empire, because empires are like vampires - they don't produce, they extract - and since they don't care even about their own working populations, is it not only fair to say and reasonable to expect and predict that they have it coming to them - and that the US and UK (USUK) populations should direct ALL THEIR ANGER towards their own corrupt, banksters and their servant governments?

I think so.

I say blow up Wall Street and London stock exchange - because they are the home of the world elite oligarchs, from who all rot and evil emmanate - and let the Greeks deal with their own particular brand of misery, which aledged or notorious "cunning" of unproductivity and "sponging" -erhaps in the end are but very much like that of the globalist, rich and their bankster mobster scavengers - although I;m sure anyone can see that any any Greek plebs-cunning is on an infinitely lower scale that Globa-Fi-Banko-Scum-cunning.

Mark my words:  The western world's population will never find economical fairness untill they "blow up" their own megabanks and "hang' the corrupt politicians that serve the banks.

I.E. - worry not about Greece, but about London, New York, California etc - I.E. LET's GET RID OF OUR OWN VAMPIRES - THE GLOBA-BANKSTERS. Frineds, get the stakes out, the party is about to begin.

Slaughterhouse Wall Street... has a nice ring to it, if you know what I mean... that is, the people becoming the slaughters and the banksters becoming the pigs, squeeling, whining, squirming as their blood fills the street .... now that's poetry.... and karma.... and for the people, freedom at last.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 12:36 | 1391243 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Dear Eureka, you haven't left anything for me to argue over! :). Your ideas on stimulus and directing our anger towards the oligarchs in the USUK alliance are ideas that I also share. At the core of the free money idiocy is the fractional reserve, multiplied a thousandfold by writing bond IOUs by the central banks that cannot possibly ever be honoured, secured on the future productivity of its citizens whilst at the same time ruining everyone's net worth.

 

There might be a small thing you may have overlooked. I mentioned direct and indirect effects on me of a Greek bailout. You covered indirect via "stimulus", but there is a direct one as well. EU member states have the legal obligation to aid the poorest in the union. Together with Germany, the UK has paid the largest contribution towards the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy), subsidies, and programs to improve the infrastructure of the poorest in the EU. It has risen by more than 60% since 2009, and although we have rebates based on our own needs, with Greece in this mess, that UK contribution to the EU (Equal to £257 per annum for every household in Britain) is set to jump again, not to mention the other costs of dealing with a Greek diaspora on our frontline services.

 

Greece could and very likely would remain in the EU while devolving from the eurozone, but that to me gives everyone in the EU a whole new set of problems.

 

Forgive me, perhaps I am being selfish and provincial, but as 2+2=4 (Sometimes 5) I can see how the Greek bailout will affect me personally and everyone around me in these already troubling times. Getting rid of the GS, AIG and JPMs of this world who seem to have their tentacles in every pie and in (almost) every central bank (We have Mervyn King) is a great notion, and I daresay they will destroy themselves soon enough with any luck, but right now in the stupid system we are saddled with, I cannot in good conscience ignore the injustice the Greeks are inflicting on the rest of the EU. Their behaviour has been far from honorable, imo.

 

Many thanks for your considered and enjoyable insights.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/6073804/UKs-payments-to-EU-jump-by-60-per-cent.html

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 18:50 | 1390645 nicxios
nicxios's picture

Knucleheads who blame the common man rather than the elite, thereby SERVE the elite.

 

Amen.


Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1389734 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

That's true. Most Americans have don't have a fucking clue about the Greeks, nor do they care about the consequences. They just want some blood and guts on their screens to feel good about their own debt situation. Papandreou is the biggest crook of them all, yet all I read from posts is how the Greeks should fuck the bankers. Stupid. Really stupid.

 

None of this matters now anyway. Most likely, the ECB has already priced in default by Greece and after a little shock to the euro, the union will go on as if nothing happened and close the borders to Greek refugees. Might as well be sooner rather than later. 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:04 | 1389788 Reptil
Reptil's picture

NO! they knew alright. And counted on the EU providing a backstop. That was the whole fucking plan all along. EVERYBODY THAT WAS NOT A TOTAL IDIOT KNEW IT WAS COOKED.

The European Court of Auditors (ECA) has refused to give EU spending a full clean bill of health for the 16th successive year.

http://www.theparliament.com/latest-news/article/newsarticle/auditors-re...

"One wonders what aim the Commission had to reform if it took them two years to appoint a qualified accountant to manage and adminster the funds of the European Union."

http://www.democracymovement.org.uk/main/MartaAdreasen_InternlRally_Apr0...

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/research/top50waste.pdf

http://www.europa-nu.nl/id/vgvhl34mprlc/nieuws/voorzitter_eu_rekenkamer_...

Need I go on? there's MORE!

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 15:13 | 1389820 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Come on! The EU's whole plan was to destroy one of their own states? Sorry, I am not buying that - it really was the Greek government's own doing and by extension, the people of Greece. It's not as if they weren't warned year after year about their spending. 

 

On another note, I've managed to reply to your kind post:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-%E2%80%9Cstay-and-fight%E2%80%9D-realistic#comment-1388239

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 13:59 | 1389577 kito
kito's picture

this one goes out to the people of greece, courtesy of roger waters:

 Hey you, out there in the cold

Getting lonely, getting old 
Can you feel me?
Hey you, standing in the aisles
With itchy feet and fading smiles 
Can you feel me?
Hey you, dont help them to bury the light
Don't give in without a fight.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:12 | 1389621 redpill
redpill's picture

So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell,
blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? 
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:13 | 1389627 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

"Welcome my son, to the machine."

 

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 14:40 | 1389708 Greeny
Greeny's picture

Dude, those doomsters get smoked today :)

f*ing "A" man, DJI up 125 points.. End of QE2 my A$$!! :)))

They probably injecting QE3 and 4 alone with EZ.

Must be nice and cool those days in the basement full of

BBQ cans, fast food and guns, counting Silver coins and

pray for collapse.. Those guys are rats, man.. *LOL*

Keep hiding.. Let's smoke'm..

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