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LTCM General Counsel On Debt Denial: "There Is Little Time To Avoid Catastrophe And Almost No Exit", Suggests Gold Price Of $5,500

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Fri, 04/09/2010 - 12:48 | 293397 Rick64
Rick64's picture

A gold price of $5,500 per ounce would comfortably support a broader U.S. money supply on a one-to-one ratio and maintain confidence in the dollar and U.S. sovereign debt.

If we ever got real transparency it would probably be more than that.

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 13:17 | 293455 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture


He presumes we have as much gold as the gov claims, a big if. I would like him to focus more on the over 45% of resources being destroyed/wasted by the organized crime syndicate calling itself “government”. Find a way to provide what ever services you think that “government” is providing to you now through private contractual means and I think you will find at least 35% more resources to productively apply to things that people actually want and need.


Fri, 04/09/2010 - 13:31 | 293486 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am not sure people want and need many of the things being produced now. Advertiser/propagandists tell us we want and need so much, but we put the shit all in landfills anyway, growing islands of plastic that float 1,000 miles off the coast of the state of CA. No, we don't need this stuff. We need to retool our ideas about need, about what is enough, and what is healthy. I actually think if we were smarter, we would have our needs met, have less stuff, BUT WORK SHORTER HOURS AND BE MORE FULFILLED. 

Just a theory you understand...

And the planet would be healthier for us, too.

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 13:50 | 293493 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

I do not disagree, however, in the long process of becoming educated as to what is really “needed” and not “needed”, and each must learn for themselves, I definitely do not want the huge % going to the criminals so they can steal more, kill more, rape more, destroy more. I certainly invite those who can inspire others as to what is really needed and not needed. I would urge everyone to provide NOW for the tomorrows when they will need to eat, be clothed, take shelter, and defend themselves from the criminals when the bitter consequences of the last 95 years mistakes come home to roost. And boy I am really going to miss the INTERNET when/if the crime bosses succeed in taking it down. Thats why I recommend people have means of communication as well like ham radios. If I recall your personal preferences you might amend the list to include certain cherished libations (?!)


Fri, 04/09/2010 - 16:41 | 293604 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

5,500/oz gold price could save US only if thousands tons of tungsten bars in Fort Knox could turn into gold bars overnight. Someone has to come up with a reverse-goldfinger James Bond for that.

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 23:00 | 294164 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture




Sat, 04/10/2010 - 13:33 | 294688 DosZap
DosZap's picture


It was transferred years ago, into a Bank in NYC, where lots of nations store theirs.(or did).

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 16:52 | 293634 Hansel
Hansel's picture

+1 gazillion

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 18:29 | 293791 GoldSilverDoc
GoldSilverDoc's picture

Want is a good word.  "Need" - not so good.  This was a thoughtful comment, up to the "we would have our needs met" part - then I start wondering whether it is YOU who is going to tell ME what my "needs" are....

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 22:42 | 294139 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

That is a reasonable reaction to my comment. I think without the propaganda/advertising screaming at everyone, each person could decide on their own what they need. I think it would organically be much less than all the crap we shop for. I know it is true for me. I'm saving money and finding out I am more comfortable in my skin than I ever was as a 20 something young person.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 03:10 | 294331 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

but there was this really cool hand-held egg-splitter thingy advertised on fox last night (betw the buy-gold ad and the speed-up-my-pc ad...). but wait!, you'd get the 'in-the-egg' scrambler if you ordered 'now', and it was only two payments of $10 (plus shipping and handling).

what are we to do?

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 18:47 | 293832 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

I agree...i am becoming an anti-hoarder really. Very opposite that funky show....


what sucks about tech is that it becomes obsolete so quickly yet you have so many plugs and adapters, phones, computers, etc.

where does it go? it's not small..no, no, no..honeycomb big..yeah, yeah, yeah....


Printers...a printer for printing pics...who prints them anymore anyway?

Not only "stuff" here...but food too! We dont need all the artificial shit in our food...


why in THE HELL do you think we have obese people everywhere...


I saw one getting dinner tonight. He was my height, 5'10" and the GM of a great food place. Yet he had to be twice my weight(im 194lbs). Pushing max density...why? because we are made to think we need more.


Just step back and read a label...it's crazy. Cupcakes from the bakery at your supermarket....20+ ingredients....for cupcakes???


Less is going to be more....

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 11:02 | 294544 non-anon
non-anon's picture

A few years ago I jumped off the micro$oft eternal upgrade path and have been using Linux and "obsolete" hardware. I'm off the tech bandwagon! Got rid of my cellphone, walk most places I need to, drive only when necessary. With all the free time, started working out with weight training and in the best shape of my life. Indeed! Less is more unless your talking about weight training!

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 20:03 | 293946 Mr. Mandelbrot
Mr. Mandelbrot's picture

Wow!!!  What a simple, but profound statement.  Thinking your idea through keeps taking me to the lifestyles of indigenous peoples where once basic needs are met, the remainder of time is spent in leisure/social activities that strengthen family and social bonds.  I work 70 hour weeks this time of year and have worked several weeks in a row without an off day.  I (we?) can't keep doing this . . . 

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 22:06 | 294092 Marvin_M
Marvin_M's picture

Mr. Mandelbrot (I take it you are a complex person), I truly feel for you.  After recently being put out to pasture after decades of 60 - 70 hr weeks, millions of miles flying in agony on United Airlines back and forth to Asia, resisting almost daily temptation to deck the next airline security brownshirt that felt up my crotch - all for the sake of...what?  A family that has its own life without me, a house full of stuff that I hardly notice, sleepless nights wondering what I got myself into....

After the obigatory several month mourning period and countless plots to get the clueless jerks that cut me loose at the tender age of 60, I now feel free for the first time in my adult life.  I am turning my attention to the community through Rotary, I have taken a part time teaching position, my wife and I have gotten into gardening big time, we bought a boat, I got elected president of our HOA for Pete's sake!! and I am loving it.

I may have an opprtunity to take a full time job soon (paychecks have their advantages) but I am thinking hard about this.  After finally getting off Zoloft, I am loathe to start back down that road again.  Less is definitely more...

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 22:47 | 294141 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

There may be some of us looking at collapse as an opportunity/permission to transition to something more sane. I want out of the matrix too. I hurt myself and others by perpetuating and participating in it. I'm glad you got out. I hope Mr. Mandelbrot can get out too. I feel the pain and my situation is not nearly as bad as what he describes.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 08:07 | 294431 BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture


I always enjoy your posts.  "There may be some of us looking at collapse as an opportunity/permission to transition to something more sane."

I am one of those who feels collapse affords us the only possible opportunity to break out of the "covet means" hypnotic trance that grips almost everybody (but, thankfully, fewer each day).  And it's obviously not a guaranteed opportunity. 

From my personal experience, not until I had the gift of time afforded me by my layoff did I get off my ass and start running down leads (mostly via links from fellow ZHers; thank you all) regarding what I previously may have sensed was "not right" with our system.  Previously, I was always "too busy" with life to acknowledge such "crazy talk/speculation." 

With the shoe now firmly on the other foot (for which I am grateful despite remaining jobless), I have tried many different approaches to just getting people to "take a peak under the hood."  This has met with extremely limited success. 

So, to conclude my "making a short story long," my personal experience required a severe jolt to seek anything different.  Since I don't consider myself unique in this regard and have seen this opinion mostly validated over the past year, a collapse (or mass severe jolt) may be the ONLY possible opportunity for a positive "something different."

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 12:26 | 294625 Tethys
Tethys's picture

"There may be some of us looking at collapse as an opportunity/permission to transition to something more sane."  Reading that gave me the sense of another piece of the puzzle snapping into place.  Like looking at one of those pictures with the hidden pattern that you have to stare at for a few minutes before it hits you.

Reminds me of a quote from the movie Joe Versus the Volcano:

My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know. Everybody you see. Everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement.

Over time, I think that the amazement can become tinged by frustration and even despair as one watches the wonderful aspects of this life slowly ground down and destroyed by cultural insanity.  If there is to be a silver lining to the seemingly inevitable collapse, it may be that, as you say, it will be an opportunity to transition to something more sane. The air is clearest following the storm.  

Maybe this is why some, who may generally find themselves simply blown away by the realization that gooey accumulations of atoms such as ourselves can even be conscious at all, can become so focused on looking for signs of the apocalypse.  And even wishing for it's arrival, despite the pain and destruction it invariably brings.



Sat, 04/10/2010 - 03:12 | 294334 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

"a house full of stuff that I hardly notice, ..."

nicely put.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 09:02 | 294458 MaxPower
MaxPower's picture


Thanks for being the only airline pilot I know courageous and self-aware enough to make those statements (former military, corporate pilot now). I specifically avoided the airline route for precisely the reasons you mention, and with your kind permission, I'm going to print your post and show it to my wife during her occasional complaints about the lack of ID90 privileges, A-scale, blah, blah, blah.

I'm in the midst of my ninth month of unemployment and, while I've still got two more decades to hit year 60, I'm certainly using this time to reevaluate my personal and professional goals.

MsC, we're right there with you. Over the last three years, we've pared our lives down to thepoint where almost everything we own will fit into about eight suitcases. It's liberating, quite frankly.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 10:52 | 294525 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Given a long enough timeline you will notice that you don't really own stuff. Your stuff owns you. Many people don't get it until it's too late.


Sat, 04/10/2010 - 01:47 | 294291 Rick64
Rick64's picture

The result of being a materialistic society. I would like to see the world recycle more, there is so much more that we could do along those lines. Some of it isn't cost effective, but the technology would be developed if there was a market for it. We waste so much. 

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 13:55 | 294712 DosZap
DosZap's picture

70% of the USA's GDP WAS based on consumer spending.......

Now that the Hamsters have very few WHEELS to run on, how do the wheels get greased?.

For those that think this system wasn't, is not being brought down ON purpose, I feel for them.

What we had was not good, what we are going to get, is pure EVIL.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 09:23 | 294467 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

So, maybe we will be forced to make things that last.  That's novel.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 09:56 | 294484 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

You make a good point because it does seem we are pretty limited on how we evaluate lifestyle and our pursuit of happiness. With some thought and re-adjusting, it is possible to live a pretty good material lifestyle while using much much less resources, we don't have to look to far to find examples, some European and Asian cities use a third of the energy we do without any major sacrifices to lifestyle, just cities, buildings designed differently.

Americans rail against taxes and the disposal income it takes from us but often do not focus on how we over pay for housing and health care (our private employers programs cover people for about twice the cost other countries get their health care). Many western Europeans chose higher taxes but get more security, they do not need to save for retirement, kids college, or worry about moving, losing jobs will not bankrupted by a one year job gap or a major illness.

I have a precious few friends that find a way to make a good basic living on part-time work and live frugally.

This is not to say that Europe vs US are our only choices and not to say our government or European governments are not colossal parasites in many ways, they are. If they were not corrupted crony systems but truly worked for our good, both our private goods and services and government services would be much less costly and regular folks would have more, more options, more needs met. Regulators would not be captured and would find sweet spot of stopping monopolies, fraud schemes, unsafe practices while not weighing down business with too much unneeded friction. Regulators would not advantage one business over another, allowing super profits for a few and no opportunity for the rest but would rather encourage lively, competitive, transparent, low-fraud markets.

I feel there are more than enough resources on this planet that the vast majority of us could have liberty, material basics (good food, shelter, health care) and time to enjoy ourselves, and the only ones left wanting would be those who could work, but chose not to. However, instead we waste resources, a few insider elites in govts and businesses parasite most of our wealth off us, and they squash technology that can help us in with material, monetary and health needs. We lack vision and limit our discussion to: big govt versus small govt.

And yes, the race of all countries to the bottom of the international currency ladder will not end well. Maybe we will get some vision after all the debt implodes, who knows. But we have more options than we think, way more. 

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 10:36 | 294499 velobabe
velobabe's picture

good to “hear” you back.

in addition to my precious metals collection is my precious health.

even my brother hates me cause i am so fit and healthy and he isn't. he blames me for living the life of riley and he couldn't. i am motivated, cause i know i don't like going to see doctors. i don't like food much either, so that helps. i ride my bike everywhere. i have gotten strong enough over the years to carry a heavy back pack full of food and my golf clubs on my back, riding my bike. i haven't bought a tank of gas for my audi in over 3 months. i don't own anything, except for my way of having fun to stay fit stuff, bikes, skiis for winter, rollor skis, golf clubs for zen, swim suit, oh and a yoga mat. covers my needs, no fossil fuels here. this town i live in zero waste community, single stream recycle, complete composting, 100% recycle, nothing in a plastic petroleum based bag. feels pretty good, too bad i am so darn old.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 10:08 | 294493 Oquities
Oquities's picture

when i got divorced at 35, i lost half of my stuff.  when my kids (single dad) moved out to college, i got rid of 1/3 of my stuff, sold my house and rented. each time i felt freer. i saved and lived frugally, but still splurged on things like good food, wine and beer, canoe trips, golf, good weed - things that enhanced my life.  i bot an economical car, shunned jewelry and status travel and cut my own hair with a flobee (no waiting!).  i learned that you will not lose friends or lovers if you do these things, because you will only attract true friends and lovers.  i retired at age 53, unsure if i had enough, but quickly found that i spent less time worrying about money than when i worked.  more time beats more money any day. i am less stressed and, i think, more interesting, at least in a philosophical way.  my children have become teachers who like what they do and accumulate the things they need gradually, not using credit.  my favorite things are my 20 year old boots and 40 year old antique desk, which i've re-finished three times.  i have time to reflect, observe, learn and grow.  i believe charity begins at home, and help family, friends, and community.  i am the millionaire next door, but you would never know it.  see you on the bike trail!

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 16:52 | 293636 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Much more than that!

Federal debt held by foreign and international investors, is at the equilibrium price of gold, relative to net foreign obligations, of $13,794 per ounce of gold as of end 2009.

Gold is no longer held captive by a fixed parity with the dollar. It's trapped politically in parity with a price discovery futures market leveraged at 100:1.

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 18:50 | 293834 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

I keep seeing these Cash 4 Gold stores everywhere...backing up the truck on gold.


I dont get it...it's a huge huge bet. But then the $ will be worthless soon I guess. But then again, I am so fucking wrong these days...

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 18:33 | 293800 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

"If we ever got real transparency it would probably be more than that."

Yeah, I'm thinking more along the lines of 55000-5.5 million an ounce by next Tuesday.

Gold bitchez!

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 20:36 | 293987 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

MB, I generally appreciate your comments, and you seem to have a pretty good read on the markets, but based on your posts I'm guessing you're pretty young, probably too young to have even seen the BreX gold mania back in '96.  So just a suggestion, you'd do yourself a service to look into the dynamics of a real gold bull/mania.  They're something to see, and you really shouldn't miss it if/when it happens.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 00:08 | 294220 merehuman
merehuman's picture

MB  welcome. You are obviously the smartest guy in the room.I look forward to your advice on where to put our money and where you think the econmy is going

clueless in or  Thanks  so much in advance


Sat, 04/10/2010 - 04:00 | 294343 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

We will see one more brief, minor correction (to alleviate overbought conditions), and then the markets will go up into the summer.  I think that we will correct a small amount soon, and then we will see S&P go up to 1220 over the summer.  We will see the last of the rally this summer, unless QE is extended further.  Then, the rally can go on as long as it can.  How long is anybody's guess.  If not, 1220 is the top, then we drop to at least fair value.

The economy will probably recover, but with the removal of stimulus it risks a double dip, much like in 80 and 82.  Until the problems with levered balance sheets of households have a chance to play themselves out, we'll see weak growth at best.

Of course, I'm sure you know these things.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 10:59 | 294454 velobabe
velobabe's picture

master bates

how's that bag working, over the black duck?

maybe softens your blows†

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 10:39 | 294487 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Very authoritative.

Go long penal code 203, 211, 451, 404.

Short penal code 653m, 502.

You can tell when something happens and zero hedge get's flooded to unconciousness that penal code 148.4 has already been shorted to death.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 00:34 | 294237 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

True, FOFOA calculates the value at 10 times that amount.  Inventory bars should have an RFID chip and GPS sensor, the same bars are most likely moved around to different depositories just in time for their physical inventory counts on different days.  If you wanted to prevent fraud you would have a global inventory count on the same day and each bar would have to have a unique identifier.

The anti-gold, pro-banker brigade of agents quickly fill the comments sections but they are easy to spot and it is clear they have a horse in the race.

The only thing you need to understand is that Nixon closed the gold window, meaning he was worried about the United States losing all of its gold reserves.  If gold was merely a barbarous relic he would have gladly traded gold for paper.

  • I suggest you look at the original companies in the DOW, only G.E. survives today.
  • Look at the value of the dollar from 1913 to today - it is worth 4% of original value
  • Look at the value of gold from 1913 to today, 30X+ multiple in paper value

Note that the constitutional punishment for currency debasement is death.  Now do you understand why central bankers hate the constitution - the founding fathers understood the importance of private property and a sound money system.

“The colonies would gladly have borne the little tax on tea and other matters had it not been that England took away from the colonies their money, which created unemployment and dissatisfaction. The inability of the colonists to get power to issue their own money permanently out of the hands of George III and the international bankers was the prime reason for the revolutionary war.”
-Ben Franklin

“The money power preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy.”
-Abraham Lincoln

“I killed the bank.”
-Andrew Jackson – On his death bed when asked what his most accomplishment was.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their father conquered.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our constitution – taking from the federal government their power of borrowing.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“Controlling our currency, receiving our public moneys, and holding thousands of our citizens in dependence…would be more formidable and dangerous than a military power of the enemy.”- Andrew Jackson

“The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.”
- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

“Why Lincoln, that is easy; just get congress to pass a bill authorizing the printing of full legal tender treasury notes, and pay your soldiers with them and go ahead and win your war with them also.”
-Colonel **** Taylor – on how to finance the Civil War

“Give me control of a nations money and I care not who writes its laws”
-Amschel Bauer (Rothschild)

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913).

"The U.N. is part of that government. They're working right now very significantly towards a North American Union. That's why there's a lot of people in Washington right now who don't care too much about our borders. They have a philosophical belief that national sovereignty is not important. It's also the reason I've made the very strong suggestion the U.S. need not be in the U.N. for national security reasons." Congressman Ron Paul, May 19, 2007.

"The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the CFR, The Trilateral Commission,founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller and the Bliderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens." Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D, advisor to NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner, Nov 6, 2001.

"It is the sacred principles enshrined in the United Nations charter to which the American people will henceforth pledge their allegiance." President George Bush addressing the General Assembly of the U.N., February 1,1992.

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." David Rockefeller Sept 23, 1994.

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all." Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

"By the end of this decade (2000 AD) we will live under the first One World Government that has ever existed in the society of nations ... a government with absolute authority to decide the basic issues of human survival. One world government is inevitable." Pope John Paul II.

"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." Arthur Schlesinger Jr. in Foreign Affairs, July 1995.

"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent." Statement by Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950.

"NAFTA is a major stepping stone to the New World Order." Henry Kissinger when campaigning for the passage of NAFTA.

"...a new world is emerging.  It is a new world order...it's being driven forward by a seismic shift in economic power that we see around us". British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, March 11, 2007.

"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order (referring to the 1991 LA Riot). Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or PROMULGATED, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government." Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991.

One in a million understands the system, we are trying to educate the ignorant on ZeroHedge, but there are many disinformation agents.  You are all trying to understand what is going on, the quotes above illuminate.  Gold enthusiasts do not love shiny yellow metal alone, they love freedom.  Precious metals provide individual control and freedom, debt money represents slavery due to debasement.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 04:13 | 294348 boiow
boiow's picture


Sat, 04/10/2010 - 08:40 | 294448 Narcolepzzzzzz
Narcolepzzzzzz's picture

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

David Rockefeller, Memoirs, 2002


"nation state as a fundamental unit of man's organized life has ceased to be the principal creative force: International banks and multinational corporations are acting and planning in terms that are far in advance of the political concepts of the nation-state."

Zbigniew Brzezinski, 1972

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 08:45 | 294450 zice
zice's picture

Have you ever tried to flesh out your ideas on NWO? While Economics is big there is still a bigger form of control that can be established. One which needs to be accomplished yet. For total control, you need to eradicate any belief outside of the self. The higher power , would need to be replaced in peoples life. While the West has had consumerism that has cluttered their lives -replacing the Other, crushing the economics will bring about a gap. This gap would be highlighted by the distress and chaos around them and only would enforce the desire to return to a higher power or to seek one. In understanding the Gulag of Archipelago, this eradication was fostered by a climate simplicity...and then cruel brutal control. The West is a bit more complex and simple erradication I do not believe would work.


Sat, 04/10/2010 - 14:12 | 294732 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

+ 1 zek

Mon, 04/12/2010 - 09:56 | 296281 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

It will work. It might not work for you or I, but it will work for 80 percent at least, and that is far more people then you need.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 09:16 | 294462 velobabe
velobabe's picture

holy heck batman, i believe you†

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 09:23 | 294468 aurum
aurum's picture

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their father conquered.”
-Thomas Jefferson


i personally love that quote...ive read it so many times and i still enjoy reading it....thomas jefferson was a genious(obviously)....gold and precious metals in general are indeed freedom...the concept is my foundation.

Sat, 04/10/2010 - 22:06 | 295089 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

I do not hold Snopes up as the authority on what is true and false.  The statement is consistent with many similar statements he made - take a different quote from the above list that is fully documented if you wish - it is a straw man to just say false and run away.

How about a few more quotes for you:

James Garfield became President in 1881 with a firm grasp of where the problem lay. "Whosoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce... And when you realise that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate." James Garfield 1881 Within weeks of releasing this statement President Garfield was assassinated.

'We authorize you (our loan agents in the western states) to loan funds on good real estate to fall due not later than September 1, 1894, and at no time thereafter. And on and after that date we will not renew our loans under any consideration. But on September 1, 1894, we will demand our money. We will foreclose and become Mortgagees in possession. We can in this way take two-thirds of the farms west of the Mississippi and thousands of them east of the Mississippi as well, at our own price. We will own three-fourths of the farms of the West and the money of the nation. Then farmers will become tenants as in England.'
- American Bankers Association, 1891 in the congressional record (1913)

'All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in our Constitution; not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from down right ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.'
- Ex-President John Adams, in a letter to his friend, Ex-President Thomas Jefferson

We have so many excellent quotes outlining the plans.  Their target is a one world government/UN, one world bank, etc.  That requires tying treaties by leaders of state that overcome and supercede the sovereignty of individual nations and individuals themselves. Don't believe me, it's not a conspiracy theory but a conspiracy by their own words. 


Sat, 04/10/2010 - 23:29 | 295144 Attila
Attila's picture



Something to contemplate: Since it is difficult to boot out a corrupt city administration; harder still to remove a state / provincial gang of thieves; virtually impossible to change a federal cartel of crooks; imagine the impossibility of changing a criminal "world government".

That would simply mean "forever doomed, for all residents".

Not a good idea.

Must be seriously resisted.



Sat, 04/10/2010 - 14:09 | 294728 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yes sir,if you count derivatives,,,,maybe $55k+ an oz.

But,if the worlds leaders/financial institutions were moral, and not into fraud,greed,power, and the hypothetical price of Gold was $5500.00oz., WHO on this site thinks for one second we would get to (A), keep it, (B), be reimbursed for the true value.

Not I. We are considered chattel, slaves of the state,true freedom is only in our minds.

On this earth at least.

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 12:49 | 293398 CookieMonster
CookieMonster's picture

"Obama grew spending on a feed-the-beast theory that forces taxes to rise to match spending. If Obama does not get his way, deficits will be ruinous. If he does get his way, taxes will stifle growth. You cannot tax your way to solvency in a world of low growth and compound interest."

What about a "Starve the Beast" policy instead???

Fri, 04/09/2010 - 12:57 | 293402 Mako
Mako's picture

"One path involves hyperinflation to destroy the real value of debt"

Sorry moron there is no way to hyperinflate out of this mess.   The current US system is $52.7T (Q4)down from $52.9T(Q3).    So, lets say you hyperinflate.... ok now you are at $75T, well now you interest on $75T.   There is no escaping the equation. If he were correct empire of Rome would still be standing.

There is no way out of this mess, billions are going to die.  You use the equation and now you don't like the end result of using an unsustainable equation.  Well life sucks or more like it will suck.

Credit creation will go to basically zero, the government has no ability to fund itself, if it did tell them to send me over a pizza and my 99 virgins. 

You have been hyperinflating for 60 years, now it's over from $400 billion to $53T.

The government can cause one more big spike then that's it.  Nobody wants a good party to end yet they all do, the interviewee is a retard.

"The other path involves a gold backed currency at a non-deflationary price"

What is this retard even talking about? 

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