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Magnified Picture Of Reactors 3 And 4 Post Explosion
Tis but a scratch. We have just one question: why isnt Fukushima crawling with iRobots armed with cameras and geiger counters?
And a close up of the Reactor 4 blow out per an ongoing NISA conference:
and a last one, slightly better contrast
h/t asdasmos
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Wasteland. WOW
WATCH this video from today on the Spent Fuel Rod Pools that are hardly contained yet they're more dangerous as a whole. Nice Design of the Plant and Reactor. Pathetic but 15 minutes worth watching. Princeton Professor confirms what Maddow is reporting. (yeah I know some don't really like her but she appears to have gotten it Spot On.) WATCH IT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiXIODVlfXk
That's a show for children, right???
I mean, its gotta be!
Hm....Figure if I wake up tomorrow glowing then the left coast may have a problem.
Iodide anyone?
This was excellent, especially the section toward end with Princeton Physicist Frank Von Hippel starting at 10:09.
Did you really just link us to a video of Rachael Maddow?
he did, he did!
What I can't find anywhere is a credible, level-headed worst-case analysis. Forget what MIGHT happen. Assume that the three previously-active reactors all go to full meltdown, and that a massive fire on #4 causes the entire spent fuel pool to burn up.
I believe that is the worst case. But what would it mean? What would the effects of that much radiation release be? How long are the half-lives of the most dangerous particles? What would rain-out effect mean on fisheries? Could a fishery wipe-out trigger a global food crisis (we were close to one already).
If anyone has a link to a credible worst case EFFECT analysis, I'd much appreciate it. I already understand "what could happen". What I can't find any credible analysis of is what it would mean and how long the effects would last.
xPat
A very good question, but there may be several good answers.
Thanks so much - That was an excellent piece.
Guys, I know we are officially bearish but can we pack in the group-think? That’s what the ‘others’ do.
I offer, for your entertainment and consternation:
“Fukushima is a triumph for nuke power: Build more reactors now! Quake + tsunami = 1 minor radiation dose so far”
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/14/fukushiima_analysis/
when oil hits $300bbl on a normal day, on average.. fucking everyone will be singing build more nukes!
People like to think as if we had the following choice:
- modern civilization with high quality of life powered by unicorn sparkles
- make evil oil corporations filthy rich while they destroy Gaia
The actual choice is:
- modern civilization powered as it currently is, with a move towards plentiful sources of energy that really work like nuclear and coal and more oil drilling in N America
- collapse into a new Dark Age
How about this choice:
- modern civilization powered as it currently is, with a move towards plentiful sources of energy that really work like nuclear and coal and more oil drilling in N America WITHOUT evil oil corporations filthy rich while they destroy Gaia
- modern civilization powered as it currently is, with a move towards plentiful sources of energy that really work like nuclear and coal and more oil drilling in N America WITH evil oil corporations filthy rich while they destroy Gaia
Last time I looked out a plane window half of America was a desert.
PUT SOME FRIKKIN SOLAR PANELS UP!!
Or some of these badboys:
http://www.solarpowerninja.com/solar-power-government-industry-news/worl...
It is a shit load of (practically) normal mirrors pointing the sun at a tube of water at the top of the tower that boils, produces steam and then turns turbines. It's a closed system that only requires one ingredient.....THE SUN
Seriously, it's not frikkn difficult is it ?? This one, finished in 2009 produces around 20mw which is easily enough for over a ten thousand homes. (10,000!!!)
What on earth are we mucking around with nuclear and coal for when there is plenty of this free sun around ??!! pure MADNESS !!
Build a mega solar farm in the Sahara and you can feed the whole of Europe and Africa.
But we lost thirty years of R&D to do this since 1979 when we knew for sure we were in Peak Oil at the global level. You know why? Because this american genius Ronald Reagan wanted cheap oil and the "post industrial" revoution to start in America. He wanted also to kill USSR through cheap oil. So he told his surrogate regime in Saud, "Open that f***king tap and keep it open". Period. They did like the good little boys they were; that stopped all R&D in alternative fuels in the West! Then we were back in Peak Oil scenario as of 2003 with a vengeance as China and India were hungry like new tigers! We had wasted twenty five years...In the meantime the sons of Reagan had landed us slap bang into the hyperinflated FIRE economy. Same mind set.
That's where we are today : clusterflock of black swans hanging around our heads.
This is simply false, for many reasons:
First: What happens when the sun goes down? The problem with solar (aside from cost) is electricity storage. Old tech batteries are really expensive and dangerous. New batteries are really, really expensive. Other tech such as flywheels can work, but are not terribly practical.
And, transmitting electricity from the Sahara to Europe ain't exactly easy or cheap.
Back of the napkin calcs of solar cells are cool, but that's just one component of the whole system.
No one is suggesting a 100% solar solution for obvious reasons. When is peak energy use? In the day of course.
Get a clue.
dup.
Setting sun.......... if you don't want to go to sleep
That was what the lost 25 years of research was supposed to be for.
Developing energy storage solutions.
Batteries are a dead duck (or rabbit)
The cheapest is hydro, but you could pump anything up a hill and store it as potential energy.
The work they are doing converting jels into partially thermosetting solids is encouraging, if a generation late.
You could also read Boyle's Law, and come up with your own ideas.
Harry, you're back. Nice of you to post this crap again. Great OpEd if you don't want to know what is really going on. I'll stick to reputable news outlets thanks.
If you are going to stick to reputable news outlets, then why are you here?
Actually, in some ways I'm inclined to agree. So far, the lesson of this whole terrible episode seems to be that living on the shore near a big fault is infinitely more dangerous than living near a nuclear plant.
On the other hand, I don't hear any fat lady singing in Fukushima yet.
Very true, I would hate to be within 200 klicks of that plant. I'm quite safe at 2,000 klicks away though.
Denninger's also got it spot on:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=182324
So far, you're certainly right. But the other far is worrisome.
So genius? Where are your certitudes today???
The truth is that we will many more reactors. Just that the reactors V2.0 are going to be safer and with more safeguards.
We have too many electronics to run and no renewable energy in present form can meet the demand.
Are you fucking kidding? That is pure propaganda.
Dammit, you're right! Your argument is so persuasive! /sarc
Here is, a goofy one. I'm starting to symbolize the right and left corners. The Symbols are starting to make sense.
There are robots/geiger counters however they are monitored by the government which will not release the information due to obvious reasons.
If this is true, that's plain sad-- the people have the right to know so that they can do whatever they can do survive. This is the problem when you have a society plagued by imbalances-- the shit really rolls down hill when it is deemed ok to.
1. They are trying to evacuate people w/o panic.
2. They don't want to look incompetant as that would reduce the legitamacy of their authority. No man wants to lose power.
So they lie. This is standard with every government on this planet, it should not shock you.
No man who is not an anarchist. FTFY.
Anarchism is about self empowerment. Every man has to take full responsibility for his actions and temper/act accordingly. An anarchist neither protects nor abrogates his power, he simply recognises it.
+1
"If you are not an Anarchist, you are just not Conservative enough to trust."
OK that is so fucking funny and I really have no idea why. I will have to remember that quote.
So far all the anarchists I've seen or read about seem to have no problem whatsoever attempting to impose their will on others by killing them or smashing their shit.
Lofty ideals of human behavior & benevolent conduct never pass the smell test in the real world.
Throw those books away, buy a farm, marry a fat German wife & live out your life in peace.
The initiation of force and anarchism are incompatible.
Anarchy/anarchist is just another word...
A group of self described anarchists that I know spend their time working with food not bombs, organizing public education meetings regarding proposed rent increases in government housing (this is in a EU country), write articles for the local paper anti the local government etc etc.
For them it's about standing up to 'the powers that be'. There's no killing or smashing shit.
Actually, anarchism is about not having one group with final control over the use of force in a country. This means that multiple groups are competing for such control. The colloquial word for when multiple groups compete for control is: civil war.
When the civil war ends, there is no longer anarchy. And most likely not anything even close to liberty either.
If any idea is believed, without regard to the real world, anarchism is that idea.
@ Bearster:
You are getting confused by the two very different meanings of "anarchy" and it is very much in the interests of statist for you to stay in your confusion. When multiple groups are willing to initiate force against others they are just operating like smaller states. That is the meaning the state wants you to think about, something akin to disorder and chaos. Those who are committed to the non-initiation of violence only need to protect themselves from the (usually) smaller fraction of the population that is willing to initiate the force (the lie of the "state" being the tool of criminals from the beginning of known history). So the primary meaning of "anarchy" is in play when speaking about a group population that can abide by the basic rules: don't steal, don't hit, don't cheat. And such a population will be COOPERATING (not fighting a civil war) in a much more efficient manner and creating a much higher level of well-being than in a statist system, and that especially includes the key services of security/enforcement and adjudication/arbitration that the statist tries to convince the population (through lies) can only be possible to provide in a statist system. They don't want you to understand the nature of free market defense and free market justice because once you understand that and see what such a system creates you will not want to have anything to do with a "state" (monopoly provider of security and adjudication services with power to force payment, (tax), to support its system in a certain geographical area.)
To avoid the confusion it would be better to use the word: voluntarism, and that is why statist don't use that word. The meaning of the word "anarchy" that statists want to use to scare people is used to deceive those who have no need to resort to a "state". The statists can only properly apply the pejorative meaning of "anarchy" to themselves, and not upon those who would be far better off under voluntarism! "Government" when imposed through force (which is its very definition), always ends up as a tool of the predators and it is their victims who have no need of such a "government".
http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/Obvious.pdf
Fuck authority; run like hell.
Evacuation?
They are not welcome in China. North Korea is not a friend. Will they all move to California?
Videos and photos would probably show the robots unless they're, like, small or whatever.
I'm waiting for Honda to swoop in with the the Asimo Humanoid (with salad tongs attached to hands).
Maybe they could borrow the BP oil spill cameras and robots. They have been proven to work under high pressure and freely dispense info to the internet.
I doubt it. Why build a useful robot when you can build an 11th generation predator drone to chase phantom terrorists who are supposedly building dirty bombs.
all the better to hunt people in our own country with when "We the People" try to take back the power we should already have..
I think the correct term is "youth". They'll be hunting the "youth".
But but, they are suppose to fight Muslims (and they don't).
If they kill too many of their "youth", maybe the Muslims will come and seize their lands, to pay for war crimes...
Where's the money to buy those F22 fighters?Long gone on Muslims, just like shit trough a goose.
Robots run on electric devices run by electric power. This poses a problem under strong radiation. The devices simply stop working.
Lead-lined robot? Zirconium-clad robot?
It's really not that bad ....
Give the Cramer replays a rest
Maybe you would volunteer to let the radiation pound away at your body and demonstrate how safe it is...
"It's really not that bad..."
Let's chose our words carefully.
Been wondering about the robots myself. Thought Japan was the world leader in that stuff. Heck every surburban police department in America with a budget over $1 million dollars seems to have one. You'd think Japan would have some that could carry a friggin garden hose to a swimming pool.
+ ASIMO
I wasn't a fan of the nuke option mentioned on an earlier thread, but.. I think they should carpet bomb the facility. Then bunker buster bomb it. Then bomb a trench to the ocean to fill it up.. not many other options that I can see..
US futures back to positive!!!
LOL...FUCKING SERIOUSLY!?!?!?
Where's Waldo?
Oops....he ran off with the latest readings
Where's ASIMO?
This explains the 500 pt Nikkey jack
It's STILL up! Way up!
You telling me? I'm riding that dog since minus 12 last nite.
That's what she said.
Better yet, send Bernanke, Geithner, Blankfein, Dimon, Blythe, Dudley, Frost, Sack (who'd I miss) in as a special reaction team.
They will all have a chance to get this under control, redeem their black, evil souls and their lives of thievery and lies, and they will regain their chance at salvation rather than hot pokers in the ass eternally in the afterlife (though most of the aforementioned individuals would probably lust after hot pokers in the ass).
Toss Donald Rumsfeld in with those guys. He needs to do something good in the world.
Don't forget Dick Cheney, George Bush, Karl Rove and Condi Rice... can't forget the current administration either, especially when Barack Obama is defending nuclear energy during the Japanese crisis. YES WE CAN.
Don't forget their ponzi president Obama.
Don't you have some africanamreibcan field hands need whipping?
u forgot the Captain O.
Would it cause all 4 reactors to go?
Change '4' to '6' and the answer is YES.
Pic looks like some bad damage...no wonder why we get fuzzy video from 20 miles out.
Good thing we have digital camera technology. I can only imagine how quickly that the film would fog up and become useless on a traditional 35 mm camera.
Hmmm. Perhaps all the 'doomer' zombies on ZH are over-reacting a bit?
http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/
That piece of disinformation has been thouroughly debunked.
Stop writing crap on every single thread, and insulting people with your diarrhea.
You're either a 12 year old, mentally, or a paid shill. (or both)
I like meth man. I don't like you. You offer nothing of interest. In the future, speak only when spoken to.
By who Mr. Reptil - you and your crew of doomers?
I bet you're thrilled to have another excuse to bury some silver in your backyard... lucky for you it is cheaper now.
seems like he buryed his head years ago ....with tin foil wrapping!!!
Meth Man,
Seriously, why are you here Cock Roaching it up? I have turned on the lights, and you should be slithering to a corner somewhere. I must repost since you seem to be popping up like a freakin cancer that won't stay in remission.
Feeling a little premature? Does your girl relish in your ability to arrive (at a conclusion) prematurely?
If you jumped off the roof of a 50 story building (feel free by the way) would you tell everyone how safe it was as you were passing the 45th floor? Does that sound about right?
Before you praise yourself and pat yourself on the back, you might want to sit back and take a larger sample. As in more than one day of trading puts on PM's. And before you prematurely ejaculate your nonsense that this FuckUshima Reactor situation is just a minor speed bump, you might want to give it a few days to proclaim yourself Nostradamus.
The reality is, we won't know the reality for some time. Days, weeks, maybe even months. And feel free to tell the entire country of Japan to not worry, and just relax. What is a few deformed babies anyway, right?
So go find yourself a 50 story building, will ya?
The gold pimps are away sulking a new $34 anal orifice and burying boiled peanuts and canned mustard greens in the back quarter while mom mans the point lookout w the 20 gauge. Nothing new here move it, move on.
But , but, but ..... They said it was a safe have, not a risk asset, oh I forgot Blyth is the cause for the drop.
Funny, when it goes up its buy , buy , buy but when it drops like a stone, everyone is happy as pigs in shit, I get to buy cheap ...
A no-lose situation.
They are brainwashed neanderthals. If they're up 2% it's incomprehensible that someone else could be up 20% simultaneously. Buy aluminum. Tin foil is in huge demand.
Blame Blythe so your prognostications never look bad ... Snake Oil .... And to think adults drink that kool-aid, unreal ...
It's a trade like everything else in the market, commodities, whoooooooooooooooooooooshhhhhhh ....
What do you want, huh? You want us to all buy AIG and lose our asses, again? You want us to try and store wealth in the dollar? In a paper IOU that has no colateral? What the fuck do you think we should do? Because we have to do something, and we are running out of options.
Bernanke has no solution, he just ZIRPs the shit out of the one thing that allows America to operate. He does not like the dollar. So what do you think we should do? Should we loan trillions of more dollars out on massive leverage? What kind of ratio should we abide by? Ten to one? One hundred to one? Do you have any idea what the Fed'a balance sheet looks like? You do understand that it is the Fed that loans gold, you understand that right? The Fed's chief asset is gold. You know that right? Of course you don't, so go buy AIG and suck it up. Suck it up!!!!
Forget it, LH. He doesn't have to think. He has a list of talking points he is emailed each morning. All he understands is that if he posts them here, he gets his deposit on time.
Bad things come in threes is what comes to mind here.. But i think you three are all one and the same.
good call! agreed.
good call! agreed.
+++
Bad things come in threes is what comes to mind here.. But i think you three are all one and the same.
took the words right out of my mouth
a beer, owed
So whats your point, seems ideal.
We'll see. It's not over yet.
Can hope for the best.
I agree we don't know enough yet to panic but that piece of crap you linked to doesn't make sense in any way whatsoever. Basically it's a pile of horseshit.
NHK (and thus CNN) are now recycling recorded footage for the last 30 mins or so, since Edano's press conference.
It is getting harder to come up with spin, and impossible to do in realtime? WTF???
Edit: new material (at least commentary) on air now
Sending robots to the reactor? Meh.
The real question is why aren't they sending the President of the Electric Company, along with the top managers, there? If the operators are working under hazardous conditions, the least that could be done is to put the top managers on the front line as well.
all workers have been pulled from plant...its over....its out of control
NOTICE: Tomorrow's rally will be delayed by 15 minutes.
Something like 50 have stayed to endeavor on...
It's a slow motion trainwreck
"why isnt Fukushima crawling with iRobots armed with cameras and geiger counters?" that was some dude's question on CNN a bit ago. Answer - cause TEPCO is a lieing sack of shit hiding the worst. Plain and simple. Sadly at this point, Japan is most likely toast as a nation.
"Sadly at this point, Japan is most likely toast as a nation. "
Are your intestines substituting for brains?
Myself, along with every other member, was thinking the same thing about your ass versus your mouth.
Seriously - why are you here? I've never seen you make one worthwhile comment.
So don't read 'em. I don't usually read yours and I feel fine.
He was only half a sheeple and half a slave,
like most overweigtht retired gvt worker.
He was only half a sheeple and half a slave,
like most overweigtht retired gvt worker.
He was only half a sheeple and half a slave,
like most overweigtht retired gvt worker.
He was only half a sheeple and half a slave,
like most overweigtht retired gvt worker.
He was only half a sheeple and half a slave,
like most overweigtht retired gvt worker.
OF COURSE!!!!
Japan could never come back from a nuclear event of this magnitude. It's not like the residents of Hiroshima or Nagasaki have any experience with radiation. Jesus Christ man, pull your head out of your ass.
WTF are you talking to fuck face? :/
"coming back" from this would be an incredibly different situation than post Hiroshima or Nagasaki. For one, the culture wouldn't have an external "patron" vying to reform and reconstruct the country with wild abandon (lest the USSR gain a vital foothold to sweep across Asia). Secondly, the Japanese culture is not suffering from an identity crisis based on their actions from the past ten years. Stagflation is not concentration camps, and as such their ability and willingness to adopt rapid meaningful change will quickly hit resistance. Granted, Japan does face an energy related identity crisis and this will likely lead to innovative changes and thinking in the coming months and years. Finally, I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Japan, but most of the aged persons which I've had the pleasure of speaking with regard that episode of their history as the darkest hour. As such, I have found much suppression of the knowledge and memories - without a great deal of motivation to think about it again. As support for this aspect of my argument, I ask how many references to Hiroshima you've heard on NHK?
And now compare to Chernobyl... Differences, not so many.
http://dearscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/chernobyl_reactor_d.gif
They lost 1 reactor at Chernobyl.It looks like 4 down, and number 5 has 40cm of fuel rod above the water now...IE: explosion imminent.
FAIL, writ large and radioactive as hell.
I suggest running away...as quickly as possible.The reactors that blew up look like scrap.I just don't see any outcome besides total core FAIL.And heavy fallout.
It will be worse than Chernobyl...
Pray for Japan and it's people.
And the quake/tsunami toll of dead and missing now over 11,000.
So very sad.
Perhaps the government doesn't want to release such information.
Apocalypse Now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUr__-VZeQ
Jap government just announced all remaining workers are leaving the plants. Conditions worsening. Like I said before. GET THE FUCK OUT!
“Every government is run by liars,” independent journalist I.F. Stone observed, “and nothing they say should be believed.”
And what passes for journalists these days do nothing more than aid and abet the liars = nothing they say should be believed either.
No matter how healthy a man's morals may be when he enters the White House, he comes out again with a pot-marked soul.
- quoted in My Father Mark Twain, Clara Clemens
History has tried hard to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of the government couldn't be wise.
- New York Herald, 26 August 1876
Nothing new going on...
Sufficiently high radiation levels cause electronics to malfunction, and are difficult or impossible to shield against.
Though I doubt that this disaster is *yet* up to those radiation levels.
Indeed. Electronics give out a lot sooner than human beings.
Probably you all know this, as it's common knowledge, but I feel compelled to post something:
This was the problem in Chernobyl as well. The Soviets then commissioned soldiers to pick up the pieces of smouldering (plutonium) fuel. Those men were fried by gamma radiation, even with heavy rotation (less than 2 minutes exposure) So were these helicopter pilots. The moment a person is directly exposed to that radiation, even from a considerable distance (like on a highrise in nearby Pripyat), that person is dying.
This is not exaggeration, of sensationalism of any kind. The situation in Chernobyl was different from the present one, in that there was a full meltdown, and that there was no containment vessel (number 3 defense of a BWR), so when the hydrogen explosion ripped open the building, the fuel was fully exposed and the radioactive cloud could escape. NONE of that has happened in Fukushima, as up yet. But if it does, and the IMPOSSIBLE happens that the spent fuel pool ignites (a first in history), the japanese will need very brave men.
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/imag6.4.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HPddRn-Sn8
http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/imag21.2.jpg
Chernobyl wasn't "caused" by a meltdown.
It was a steam explosion as the reaction ran out of control, several multiples of its rated output due to positive void coefficient and some quirks particular to the control rods in the RBMKs.
Once the steam explosion blew the reactor open, the graphite caught fire and began dispersing the core into the atmosphere.
Chernobyl did not have a hydrogen explosion and the plant designs and fundamental operating technologies are completely nonanalogous.
Note carefully: the control room operators at Cherbobyl proceded to shut-down the reactor when their observations demonstrated that they were operating outside the expected event sequence.
At that point, an administrative officer i/c of the tests being performed, overruled the decision to abort and off they went into unknown territory. A major misunderstanding of operation in the new territory was lack of knowledge about the effect of boiling [bubbles] appearing and causing progressive, exponential deviation from expected heat transfer actions.
There was now no way to recover. Kaboom.
[At3-MileIsland, there was similar "senior" override of standard operator policy and then at least 1 major false-indication of valve position causedwrong responses. Consequent to 3MileIsland was new realization that false valve-position data was generic to entire indutry. Thus begat the MOVATS* mandate for total demonstration of all vital valve operations.
* Motor Operated Valve Analysis And Test System.
iMelted
This guy looks like he could carry a garden hose !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtj6u_v8xtg
That robot is called ASIMO. Eric Cartman dressed up as a robot on an episode of 'South Park' and called himself AWESOME-O. Coincidence?
I laughed.
Looks like I spelled it wrong. Eric Cartman was AWESOM-O. According to the story, the character was based on the ASIMO robot made by Honda. Funny episode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWESOM-O
Nothing a little duct tape can't patch up....
You must be from Juarez
A bit of Bondo with some J-B Weld in the structural cracks, and good as new.
It'll buff right out...
See those big towers in the picture. Those are radon and hydrogen gas vents. Nuclear plants typically generate about 50,000 curies of Radon each year and they vent it through the pipes in those stacks. Why weren't these working for the last few days?
As for keeping things cool ... all they have to do is park several huge fireboats along the shore and spray the whole place down and pumpp colling water through hoses to the soaking pits and reactor containment domes.
You volunteering for Deadliest Catch- Radiation Hoser?
A Discovery-Canadian Exclusive.
@Stuck on Zero
Too logical.
Who's going to man the boat and who's going to make them man them?
squirrels have been hiding nutz
in the hydrogen relief valves
causing their malfunction...
Ok, let's see the video of the actual blasts.
I sort of remember people demanding a BP feed be streamed live ...
What's up with this?
Did they halt the Nikkei? My feed has flatlined.
- max
restart, now I have feed up to teabag time.
Oh look, the fire is 'out' again!
Por que?
sea water
lunch break jackass... happens every day.