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A Majority Of Americans Believe The US Government No Longer Operates Within The Constitution
A rather indicative poll released by Rasmussen earlier this week finds that a majority of Americans (44%) now believe that the government operates outside the confines of the Constitution, compared to just 39% who believe government does not take liberties with the precepts laid out by the founding fathers (and 17% were busy watching dancing with the stars to have an opinion either way). Some other unflattering findings on US democracy: "Earlier surveys have shown that just one-in-five voters believe that the government today has the consent of the governed.
Forty-eight percent (48%) see the government as a threat to individual rights.
According to the Declaration of Independence, governments are formed to protect certain inalienable rights." Not surprisingly, politicians are shown to not only be usurping and incompetent despots but biased as well: "As is often the case, there’s a wide gap between the perceptions of the Political Class
and those of Mainstream voters when it comes to the federal government.
Eighty-three percent (83%) of Political Class voters say the government
now operates within constitutional limits, but 62% of those in the
Mainstream don’t share that view." Most worryingly, "nearly two-out-of-three voters (65%) are at least somewhat angry at the current policies of the federal government, including 40% who are Very Angry." That's 65% with not even a whiff of austerity on the horizon...
While we uge readers to read the full survey for all queries, the following financial-related disclosure is important as it shows that the path the government is on will continue to make the vast majority of the American population increasingly angrier.
-
Despite continuing gun control efforts by federal, state and local
governments, Americans overwhelmingly believe the Constitution
guarantees the right of the average citizen to own a gun. - At the same time, most voters (65%) say they prefer a smaller government with lower taxes rather than one with more services and higher taxes.
- Most Americans say the government already has too much influence over the economy and is involved in too many things that would be better left to the private sector.
- Seventy percent (70%) of voters think big government and big business generally work together against the interests of investors and consumers.
If readers find these results disappointing now, we suggest waiting until austerity is adopted and 5 year interest-free installment plans are no longer offered on those 10 LCD TVs you just must have.
And while the topic of the Federal Reserve was not breached this time, the last time around Ben Bernanke's despotic institution was discussed, nearly 90% of Americans (those who actually knew what it is) expressed a very unfavorable opinion. The other 10% were probably all Wall Street executives.
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"Normal" people tolerate a *lot*. Until they don't.
Just watch Ireland as an example. The same will happen in the US.
I hope and pray you are right. There aren't too many more options on this. The tree of liberty must be watered.
[I hope and pray you are right. There aren't too many more options on this. The tree of liberty must be watered.]---High Plains Drifter
Thanks for your post, High Plains.
I find the following a helpful guide:
Flying to Arms: FOUR Criteria Legitimate Armed Rebellion:
1. When laws are no longer made by a legislature elected by the people.
2. When our form of government exists without our consent.
3. Taxation without representation.
4. When authority is no longer derived from ourselves.
–SAMUEL ADAMS
(See Samuel Adams, aka Father of the American Revolution. Ref. circular letter reproduced in the Massachusetts Gazette 9-12-1786. Letter drafted by special committee [member Samuel Adams] authorized by the Boston Town Meeting to express to the governor their disapproval of the Shays Riots. The Shays Riots did not meet the above criteria.)
"I often asked myself, is this exactly in the spirit of the patriarch of liberty, Samuel Adams? Is it as he would express it? Will he approve of it?...be assured that there exists not in the heart of man a more faithful esteem than mine to you[Samuel Adams] and that I shall ever bear you the most affectionate veneration and respect."
–THOMAS JEFFERSON
(Letter from President Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Adams, March 29th, 1801)
The Second Amendment of the US Constitution was not included in the Bill of Rights in order to protect guns rights for deer hunters. Hunting is a given. The Second Amendment first and foremost protects our right to bear arms in the event they must be used to threaten or dispatch enemies of said constitution. It is another check on tyranny. Understand, when the US Constitution is at stake, defending it by armed rebellion is always always always "on the table."
Give me liberty or give me death!
I only hope and pray I can be half the man Samuel Adams was ,drunk or sober.
Samuel Adams wasn't that great. Just look at what he said/did during Shay's Rebellion.
Not to mention what Washington did during the Whiskey rebellion.
So....
The genius of the Second Amendment is this: it leaves the ultimate political power dispersed in the hands of the many where it cannot be (ab)used until the many are themselves abused.
Oh, Well SAID, Sir!
The point being that the founding father crushed all slave rebellions.
They did? Please name these rebellions as I see none in the history books.
You need some unexpurgated books, Jack.
hey genius
maybe you a oughtta try to read some a different history books
That's not the point, but you raise an interesting one. Slaves were forbidden arms, and for a very good reason which you point out. The Framers knew how they'd won their freedom; the progressive movement's war on private firearm ownership reveals them as slaveholder-wannabees.
If you're one of those people who discount everything said or written by the Framers because of slavery then go read Howard Zinn and don't try to waste my time.
+1000
let me know when we have the right to bear
nuclear weapons, etc.
good luck bump firing against someone with a real gun,
or a tank.
hey, asshole. did it ever occur to you that those driving the tanks are our own? military country folk going to turn on their own people for some ruling elites?
...i believe you will be surprised. careful which side of the line you defend, fuckwit.
There are not enough tanks to accomplish what you suggest, nor will there ever be. As long as very large numbers of individuals own and are moderately proficient with modern rifles, the Second Amendment still retains its teeth. I don't need nukes or tanks, your point is ridiculous.
Please define "real gun." What is "bump firing?" It sounds like a way to constantly miss what one is shooting at while expending large amounts of ammunition.
Officers swear an oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign & domestic.
Line officers take the oath deadly serious...the military won't be attacking civilians in the US for a very long time, if ever. Any general who would give such an order would not be able to walk among his own men or the civilians he gave the order to attack.
So your point is bullshit.
I hope you are correct. However, I wonder how they cover the Constitution in the military academies. One of the problems with understanding the constitution is the natural evolution of language -- as well as the deliberate redifinition of key words used the document. For example, the judicial branch seems to have seriously undermined the people's rights with the redefinition of the word 'jury'.
I wrote an article about the language of the constitution a few years ago covering that very problem. It seems that judges now order juries to ignore the clear intent of the constitution, as it was written.
What was the percent of people wanting to start a rebellion in the early 1770's? I think it was less than 20%. A large percentage was comfortable, with the current arrangement or outright tories.
20% of 300 million is 60 million across 50 states.
I'd say that 5% of really pissed off people with guns could cause a lot of ruckus.
It don't take that many. Really. Coupled with the comment about Maslow's needs. Pretty soon alot of people will turn.
As Kunstler said, they might just "Have trouble answering the Phone"
Current historical estimates is that a total of 3% of the population were directly involved in open warfare against the British. So yeah, wouldn't take much.
They were fighting an oppressor who was on the other side of an ocean it took several months to cross. The situations are not the same. Our oppressor is sitting in our collective laps trying to regulate and surveil our every breath. I think it would require substantial popular support.
I've been waiting for these discussions to turn up...
I believe such an uprising will need to take place as an organized tax revolt. Tax revolt backed by:
1. local law enforcement sworn to protect citizens from a Federal and State abuse.
2. a phone-tree type of organized, armed protection from those State and Federal authorites that come to collect their unconstitutional pound of flesh.
Think 70 armed folks from close by promise to show up at your doorstep when the IRS stops by.
this is a good idea. local folks all agree to send IRS agents packing, and do not honor any court orders against them as they relate to un-Constitutional Federal taxation. again, if anyone comes to collect you, then 70 of your closest friends show up to militarily resist.
you want to hear a funny story? well, when i was living in woody creek colorado, i would hear series of gun shots in the late of night. i could not figure out what they were coming from. i would look in the paper the next morning and no news of anyone being shot. so i thought well maybe HST was shooting at ed down the road. this was going on for years. then i finally called the cops and told them i had just heard a series of gun shots at 2AM. he said when a deer or elk is hit or grazed by a car and not quite dead yet, the officers are called out to shot the elk or deer dead.
there's something there...something.....i just know it...
If it was late October, opening morning, one shot coming from up on the ridge towards Ruedi reservoir, then it might have been me.
Oh R E A L L Y †
well i would ride that ridge above ruedi reservoir quite a bit H H.
i know it well, towards triangle peak (white mountain) you mean? dual access, multi use trail, motorcycles and mountain bikes could ride that single track, right? not the other side of ruedi, that is harsh exploration and some private and no mechical machines allowed, cause it would drop down into private owned lands.
who are you? i bet you really don't know that terrain. your just googling or something. cause that is steep and technical. are you charlie or janson?
remember this ridge?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
The laws are supposedly made by an elected legislature, however, that legislature may now be elected via campaign contributions from corporations. Remember also that other piece of bovine excrement dropped by the Supine Court - KELO.
When you consider lobbyists, attorneys, a judiciary that legislates from the bench, routine search and seizure violations of the 4th amendment, bailouts, TARP, TALF, POMO, IMF "contributions", etc., etc., etc. - then we have met the four criteria already.
Add increasing Govt surveillance of the populace and arrests against the populace for surveilling the police and other public servants to your list as well! :(
The US Corp is not required to operate within the constitution, it is not a lawfull
government.
(The original United States has been usurped by a separate and different UNITED STATES formed in 1871, which only controls the District of Columbia and it’s territories, and which is actually a corporation (the UNITED STATES CORPORATION) that acts as our current government. The United States Corporation operates under Corporate/Commercial/Public Law rather than Common/Private Law.
The original Constitution was never removed; it has simply been dormant since 1871. It is still intact to this day. This fact was made clear by Supreme Court Justice Marshall Harlan (Downes v. Bidwell, 182, U.S. 244 1901) by giving the following dissenting opinion: “Two national governments exist; one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and Independently of that Instrument.”)
This is happening now, a new Republic.
http://www.panamalaw.org/update_republic_of_the_united_states_11-18-2010.html
http://republicoftheunitedstates.org/node/5
Okay, great - armed rebellion it is. Who, exactly, are you planning on attacking to regain control of the country and reintroduce the Constitution? I mean, I see and hear people all over the nation hinting at armed rebellion and "taking back our country", but I have yet to see or hear of any clear cut plan.
Just wondering.
There wouldn't be...the organizers would be arrested.
There's a huge difference between fighting oppressors who are across the ocean where it will take weeks to arrive...and fighting the US government with the greatest army on earth...right here. As usual, you need the army on your side...and they kicked out the general who would have probably helped...remember the Rolling Stone interviews when he called the current administration a bunch of idiots?
who do you think would start the armed rebellion? it is exactly our armed forces or at least a good percentage of them along with a large number of private citizens.
i know a good number of military and the currents of anger that I witness here are the same that they display. they're angry, they're trained and they have access to heavy weapons.
It will start with them.
I don't think it will START with them. But as I said...you need the army on your side. Whomever has it...WILL win.
i agree. this will very possibly be a military coup towards restoration of the US Constitution.
however, a tax revolt and organized armed defense against any authority wishing to make a Federal arrest is also a possibility. as someone mentioned above, it only takes the commitment of 70 neighbors to come to the aid of another. as soon as others see this happening, then it is bound to get contagious. i reckon our communities around country towns are cohesive enough to begin this process.
I've been waiting for these discussions to turn up...
I believe such an uprising will need to take place as an organized tax revolt. Tax revolt backed by:
1. local law enforcement sworn to protect citizens from a Federal and State abuse.
2. a phone-tree type of organized, armed protection from those State and Federal authorites that come to collect their unconstitutional pound of flesh.
Think 70 armed folks from close by promise to show up at your doorstep when the IRS stops by.
+1776
simple.
i beg to slightly disagree with that course i can name three men who won revolutions without firing a shot ,well Jesus's follower did take up a sword and cut of a man's ear (bad aim) lol but Jesus put it back on . Gandhi never fired shot but took back a country and Martin Luther king also had to endure some fire hoses and beatings probably but finished the Job that we started with the civil war . My point is if we Men have inner strength then maybe i wont have to break out our guns , which reminds me i gotta get some more ammo and a site for my deer gun lol
[i beg to slightly disagree with that course i can name three men who won revolutions without firing a shot...]---jakethesnake76
Hi Jake. Thank you for your thoughtful Reply.
Personally, I believe we have NOT met the criteria stated by Samuel Adams. Not yet.
Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.
[...which reminds me i gotta get some more ammo and a site for my deer gun...]Thanks for the chuckle this morning. I'm thinking that falls under the "prepare for the worst" category.
God Bless you and your family this holiday season.
the tree of despotism has certainly been well watered
They asked the people if they think the government respects the Constitution or not, they didn't ask if people where willing to tolerate it, this survey does not measure the level of hate against the government and does not measure how far the people are willing to let the government push it
A well fed dog will not bite the hand that beats it, if you wondered why no1 is let to starve through food stamps, this is a 'controled demolition' of society they let the economy collapse and replace it with giveaways and other social benefits, its the same what they had is Sovite Russia, no income no money but no1 was allowed to starve on the street
This is OT and I know it, apologies, but I just had to pass it on somewhere:
Illinois, Maryland and Massachusetts have specifically made it "illegal to record an on-duty police officer even if the encounter involves you and may be necessary to your defense, and even if the recording is on a public street where no expectation of privacy exists."
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-25/tech/shooting.video.tsa_1_tsa-s-office-tsa-checkpoints-shooting-video/2?_s=PM:TECH
And that is the problem, a law like this, is at face value to any idiot, unconstitutional. We don't need the men in dresses at the Supreme Court to tell us it is not.
This is not the first jurisdiction I have heard of passing a law like this.
Shoo, I am gonna have to stock more popcorn. Fireworks are getting fast and furious in all arenas.
Laws are all based on enforceability. If a law can be enforced without engendering a massive revolt and refusal it's considered a good law. Morality has nothing to do with it. It's all about force.
Precisely. Then enforced "selectively". Does this extend to "journalists", as if any real ones are left? Really, I am freak shitting lately. Wonder if they are gonna extend unemployment or not? When are they really gonna use the "fuck-you-bald-in-your-face" starvation card?
"The revolution will not be televised" is echoing thru my mind.
It certainly extends to "citizen journalists" who happen to catch a cop beating the shit out of an unresisting "suspect." Once tv stations have this it is harder to suppress, but getting it to them untraceably can be a risky challenge for the photographer.
Maybe. But remember who all the TV stations are beholden to. And, if they use it "selectively", say, against TERRORISTS, domestic or not, who is gonna peep about it. They are protecting us, you see (or don't). But, back to the topic, it's just a piece of paper. Which is true. Ideas on a piece of paper. Just like fiat.
Time to leave those states.
Whether this statute is enforceable/constitutional is doubtful, even in the government courts. Check these links for info about a recent Maryland case where a Circuit Court judge dismissed charges brought against a motorist accused of violating this statute.
http://www.federaljack.com/?p=17341
http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/region/harford_county/charges-against-motorcyclist-who-recorded-traffic-stop-are-dropped
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/blog/harford_county/ (scroll down to story dated Sept. 27 entitled "Motorcyclist wins taping case against state police")
The Irish have a history of revolting. For them, this is like a continuous 4 day weekend!
The American on the other hand see it as treason and UNpatriotic to go against their government.
Also, after my trips to America, I can only conclude = Americans never get angry. They are always nice! For me that was scary! :)
Heh, the Irish are revolting :-p
Seriously, I wish them all the best, but they'll only throw out one lot of tyrants for another lot.
many are angry, they just weren't angry at you and therefore were nice.
A good example of this reality is the environmental religious fanatic Mary Nicole's who heads up the California Air Resource Board (C.A.R.B) in which there is no freedom, there is no liberty, and though there is a constitution it does not apply, all in the name of "saving the world". This is literally happening in the most fucked up ungovernable State in our Union!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRZCiqtorOw&feature=player_embedded
Some of us are trying to draw attention to this reality...
http://www.killcarb.org/
You see appointed members of boards such as these that have the power to pass regulations are among the most threatening mechanisms in nullifying our Constitution.
Oh, and for all you green sick ass looting fanatical lunatics and frauds that believe CO2 is earths enemy, here is a must read which I hope helps deprogram your vulnerable "CO2 is a pollutant" infested minds!!!
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/11/slaying-sky-dragon-ebook-just-...
Carb hires fake PHD's and then goes about bankrupting thousands of business's based on fake PHD findings. Of course when fake PHD is routed out, phony PHD's program continues and is not cancelled (just put on hold for now). Its no wonder that Ca is bankrupt....
One of those PHD's you're talking about is Mary Nichols' grunt, Hien Tran, who did most of the fraudulent compiling of research for her...This 2 bit fraud is still working for her because she knows if she fires him he will sing like a bird. This guy is a real piece of work...Hien Tran a fraud among frauds right there with Mary Nichols. These minds are really the sickest of the sick and most Californians still have no idea what they are doing to themselves.
http://www.killcarb.org/tranpage.html
Um...44% is not a majority...so...yeah...just a heads up...
The majority of respondants who had an opinion.
Common people are just stupid and lazy. As long as they are not starving, there are no problems for the ruling elite.
Only when there is a serious split inside the ruling elite leading to an inability to rule, meaningful changes will happen.
Common people had nothing to do with starting the American revolution, writing the Constitution, etc., One should not expect that they will start anything in the future either.
I had the pleasure of coming to your country for a conference last week. I had the great pleasure of watching a grandmother in a wheelchair yanked out of it and thrown to the ground becuase she wouldn't submit to a search. I tried to assist her they pushed me away.
Your country is mightily fucked up people.
These pricks should be hanging in the town square. Instead you quietly go about your business as if nothing is happening.I am truly afraid for you. Now that the "test" is done to see if you'd riot. The squeeze will only get worse.
Yet you sit and do nothing.......
When one of these pedophiles junks your kids what will you do. Did you know that apparently 5-9% of these people are convicted pedo's?
It appears to be Germany of the late 30's
it is. Yet if you peruse the comments in threads here and in other articles and pay attention to what some write, you will clearly see the result of thorough brainwashing with comments about socialists of Ireland and what not, as if socialism is rampant throughout the world when in fact the opposite is occuring thru globalism and 'currency unions' which is supranational corporatism in nature ... thus the perception and accurate comparison to Germany of the 30's which I see quite clearly as well... except we haven't had the hyperinflation to radicalize the populace.
from the perspective of living here in America, i agree with your assessment.
i also believe that the entire world is watching and waiting for common Americans to lead a revolt against global oligarchial fascists who have highjacked our country.
I'd like to opt-out.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blrevocation_cleese.htm
The survey does not report how many of the 1000 respondants were dead Chicagoans. Me thinks the results are skewed. On an independantly conducted survey by me, 72% were not aware there was a goobermint beyond the IRS.
OK, Republicans!
Now is the time to show everyone (inc. doubters here at ZH) that you are different. Same old Shi'ite, you LOSE!
You'll have to speak up, they can't hear you over...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSoqed9v2Ds
Beauty
Is the Anole (misnomer is Chameleon) different just because it changes colors?
PLEASE BE CAREFUL! I just about spat coffee out through my nose on that one!
Replying to replies above.
We "unelected" the Ds. This is about the last chance to see if the Rs are just the same ol same ol. Give us the same ol Shi'ite: YOU LOSE! No one will ever believe you again.
Probation, bitchez!
"Now is the time to show everyone (inc. doubters here at ZH) that you are different."
I nominate Senator John Kyle as hypocritical sphincter muscle of last week for slipping in a 200 million dollar earmark on unrelated legislation.
I really don't care what earmark's are for and I'm well aware they are a pimple on Oprah's ass, financially...debt/deficit incurring. They are however generally used in the process of legislation as a bribery tool...it is corruption made legally elegant.
Chen, you may or may not have seen where I said would be more ruthless on republicans than I ever was on the dimwits, I intend to honor it...and yes I'm a registered republican.
agreed. i've been hammering these fuckers in my circles:
"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day. But a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly proves a deliberate systematic plan of reducing us to slavery." - Thomas Jefferson
The biggest difference between republican and democratic constituencies are the republicans haven't figured out that their politicians are as corrupt as the democrats and that the biggest difference between the parties is simply rhetoric and not actions. Both are owned by the money power which is looking to crush American workers thru globalization to introduce highly unpopular 'solutions' ... like Argentina, Iceland, Greece, Ireland and soon Portugal, Spain... ? All coming to a political/monetary kabuki theater near you.
agreed. we finance our own oppression via our debt-based monetary system coupled with fractional reserve counterfeiting.
collapse and consolidation are built into the system.
They don't even teach the constitution in schools anymore.
I beg to differ - at least in my area. The two kids I had T-giving dinner with last night (one was 12, the other 14)were extremely well versed.
Constitution? WTF is that? Some faded document in the Archives. Invented by OLD WHITE MEN who OWNED SLAVES, therefore, it is ab initio invalid.
The ends must justify the means for the greater good and the children and all that shit
By your reckoning then, it seems resaonable then that it would be ignored by OLD WHITE MEN who STILL OWN SLAVES.
great point. trav has no philosophical foundation. only vitriol and venom.
yeah - by God - don't fergit th' chillun'....love it how all some twnak has to do is throw in the current buzz-word to hokk 80% of the mob: "children", "education", "health" (with or without "-care") etc ad nauseum; oh I forgot "seniors"
Did you know that white slavery was much more prevalent than black slavery? Of course nobody ever taught that little known (at least in today's world) fact to anyone in the politically correct, multi cultural, diversity is good , government schools. We the people give the Constitution life. If the watchman is asleep on the walls of the city, the enemy creeps in and destroys us from within. So it is now happening. Jesus Christ was recorded as saying the following statement in the Biblical book of Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
I think I understand what He was trying to say to me
and how He pleaded for my sanity
and I am listening now.
there was no such thing as anything other than black slavery by white people. And all white people must share perpetual guilt for this. Diversity is good except if it contains white people. That's because white people are evil. They are evil for oppressing the indigenous populations of the world with electric power, modern medicine, and the lightbulb. Nevermind the written word and wheel, which were brought to 2 continents by invading white debbils.
In fact, when you subtract out nearly all technological progress in the past 1000 years, 99% of the things ever invented, calculus, oil, nuclear power, optics, the car, airplane, computer, and pretty much every field of science and medicine, white people have nothing going for them at all, whereas diverse peoples have deepness and realness and all the cool factor you see in movies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_Nobel_Laureates :)
Try as I could, I could not find the list of white nobel laureates.
I think you just proved his point, reverse discrimination is still wrong. Giving favor to any person or group as a result of their melotonin level is wrong.
So in ALL the history of the Nobel prizes...blacks get 12. And WHAT are they for...peace...nothing "real" like science or research...peace...peace for whom? Black people. Black people promote black people and they get a prize for it. White people promoting white people and we get "junked" for it. BTW, how's that "peace prize" for Obama working out? A little premature in the awarding? He's still quite active in the war department, in fact, he may have another on his hands in Korea. Sending in the carriers was the "peaceful" thing for a Nobel winner eh?
Sometimes I do hope for the "great meltdown" so we can put those whining lazy bastards BACK to work! No more welfare bitchez! Time to do some REAL work again!
And no, I wasn't born thinking like this...it's 50 years of using my eyes...seeing how things REALLY are. Racial equality is as bogus as most of the other propaganda that comes from government.
It's time to stop with the equality lies...
I'm surprised the warden still lets you have computer privileges, Charlie.
Blue-eyed devil bitches....
Fightin' for our rats!
Ohn make no mistake you still support slavery. Its just now they are Chinese working in sweatshops for 90 cents an hour making everything you own.
That is called free trade. The internationist corporation owners (whoever they may be, haw haw haw) decided that they were tired of paying those evil white men , enough money to live on, so they decided to move their factories to a place where the wage scale was a lot less. Then they turn around and sell their chinese made junk, to those silly white men , who lost their jobs, while these silly white men are shopping for bargains at walmart. Evil whitey gets again, drats....
Roman Legions, upon sacking a city would kill all men of fighting age and enslave the women and children, taking their lands and possessions. The booty would be held in trust until a triumphant march through Rome, slaves in tow with their possessions prominently displayed for the crowds. After the procession the slaves and booty would be sold off, the proceeds of which was distributed, apportioned by rank, to the legions. The censure would then allocate a portion of the land taken to the soldiers, whereupon they would take their families and settle.
Rome taught us evil Gauls to be civilized and they gave us the Catholic Church to make us fear their god.
The "catholic" church as you call it did not appear for a long time after the fall of the Roman Empire. Indeed, Ireland and many parts of Britain had been converted to Christianity long before Augustine the butcher was ever on the scene. Just FYI ;)
hummmm
In the year 1000 half of Europe was still pagan
Men need to grow their balls back. We've been neutered. Why can't WE have some good manly fun again! I'd LOVE to go raping and pillaging...who's with me?
I hear they're recruiting in Somalia.
You may be on the menu girly...
Trav did you know that 65,000 confederate soldiers were black?
http://www.37thtexas.org/html/BlkHist.html
Did you know that over a thousand jewish people lost their lives fighting for the south in the so-called civil war?
http://www.thesouthernamerican.org/files/CSJEWS1.html
Did you know that many freed black men in the south during the 1800's owned black slaves?
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm
Sir, I am afraid history as you have been taught it, it not as cut and dried as you may think.
Sic em HPD! ;-)
But I did detect some sarcasm in Trav's remarks...and you forgot to tell everyone the last Confederate general to surrender was Cherokee...(collective audible gasp)...LOL.
http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/Stand_Waite/
Yes its true. The cherokees were good guerrilla fighters. They simply could not understand why southern boys would stand in nice pretty lines and attack fortified positions etc. This made no sense to them. They favored other approaches that enables them to live and fight again another day. Some Southern generals wanted to fight a guerrilla war but Lee was too much of a southern gentlemen on that. Even though the bastards stold his farm and kicked his wife off of it and turned into Arlington National Cemetary. So much for gentlemenly behavior, and don't get me started about Sherman and his march to the sea, where union troops pillaged undefended southern farms and raped unarmed and innocent southern women and girls, all this because the jackass we had as President at the time, wanted to teach the south a lesson, how dare you talk to the federal government , here in the disctrict of columbia about this silly meaningless piece of paper known as the Constitution. How dare you indeed. Study it well my friends. This is what happens when you stand up against the beast. Make no mistake about it. When you do, all hell will come at you. If any of you, have any misconceptions, make sure you clear those up right now. Once any rebellion starts, it must be won , at all costs. There is no other option. Victory must be achieved. The discussions here and there about a possible army coup d'état pique my curiosity at this time.
All true...Arlington...(the north...Lincoln as CiC...ordered the bodies of the union dead to be buried there so Lee could never return home).
Entire towns and it's inhabitants were uprooted and forciblly moved by union troops (genocide).
Confederate POW's died from cold, starvation, lack of medical treatment in far away places like Camp Douglas (Chicago)...Elmyra NY etc...yet the world only knows of Andersonville (because of Grant's policy of no more prisoner exchanges)...a tribute to the power of state controlled media.
My family has letter's written from Petersburg Va. (my great-grandfather was with A.P.Hill there...Cold Harbor II)...we know the insanity they are capable of (6,000 dead yankees in a half hour, mowed down like grass while Grant lay drunk in his tent)...the mercenaries captured who could not even speak English who were promised citizenship if they would only fight against their future countrymen.
We know.
We know about the rape...the murder of civilians...and we also remember reconstruction...how could we ever forget.
We also know it wasn't the people of the north we were really fighting...it was as Lee often said..."those people".
My people on my mother's side were from Louisianna. Some of them fought with Hood's Texas Brigade. When Lee had a dirty job to do, he called upon his beloved Texans. 5000 went to war, and 700 came home. They did their job and they payed the price and American fought American all because the Rothschild banking interest wanted to knock the United States down by deflowering its growing population and to get it mired in some stupid silly useless war. Sound familiar? As a child in the 50's , we would make a yearly treck from Texas to Thomasville Georgia where my grandparents lived on my father's side. Even then, they would gather after dinner in the evening on the front porch( not the back porch as it is today) and fan themselves with those old fans they used to have in the south and every once in a while the subject of Sherman would come up, even in that day. It took a long time for that wound to heal and perhaps it is not even healed yet , not really. American troops doing such horrible things to other Americans all because of this madman Sherman and his mad boss Lincoln, that traitorous scumbag who got himself a big statue in Washington DC and all of these young people are taught what a great man he was. Well he wasn't that great and I could go on and on about him, but yes I know the name of A.P. Hill. Our greatest southern general of course was Stonewall Jackson. Such a shame , he got shot by our own men and dying later. I remember reading that after some engagement, I forget where, he looked out on a sea of blue , (dead Union soldiers) and he was said to have stated, Gentlemen, it has been a good day. The worst mistake the south ever did was attempting to go toe to toe with the north in european styles of fighting. The north had all of the factories more or less and they had all of the manpower. It was only a matter of time. When Jackson died, surely this thought went through Lee's mind. Let us not forget also, that to this day, the country as a whole remains under military occupation. The flag we call old glory is a military occupation flag. The Executive order never was rescinded. Just a little note there for any of the sheep who somehow think the civil war ended. It hasn't. The battle continues on the American people.
Some wars carry on because they are culturally determined, as evidenced by your comments on "the battle continues".
Kevin Phillips' The Cousins Wars shows the roots of the US Civil War linked to the American Revolution and the English civil war of 1648. That would a war linked over two centuuries. Recommended for all un-reconstructed rebels.
the political class?
btw rasmussen's definition/conclusions involve some circularity: the p.c. is defined by "no" answers to: do you trust the people over the leaders?; is the u.s. govt primarily an interest group serving itself?; do business and govt collaborate against consumers and investors?.
given that definition it is unlikely these self-selected would find the govt acting unconstitutionally.
Also I want to make it clear that if any of Lincoln's generals wanted to treat the people of the south with dignity and honor, they were fired so fast it would make your head swim. He wanted blood thirsty scumbags for his generals that would do whatever he wanted them to do, no matter what. He got that in Sherman and Grant, there is no doubt about it. Sherman and Grant sold their birthrights for power and money and greed and ego and after the war, it was said they were great men. Great men my ass. To the victors go the spoil and the right to write the history books. How often truth is left out, only to be discovered much later, perhaps. What a invention this internet is. They meant it for bad, but it has been shown it can be used for good, the spread of information and usage as inquiring minds search for the real truth , so often hidden in government schools. Mark my words, there will come a time when they try to destroy it, even now, they are planning such. The last true venue of free speech and buddy they cannot stand it. They hate it. Because it is waking people up, one mind at a time.
"So much for gentlemenly behavior, and don't get me started about Sherman and his march to the sea, where union troops pillaged undefended southern farms and raped unarmed and innocent southern women and girls, all this because the jackass we had as President at the time, wanted to teach the south a lesson, how dare you talk to the federal government , here in the disctrict of columbia about this silly meaningless piece of paper known as the Constitution."
You don't suppose for a minute or two that the several hundred thousand Northerners killed by Southern armies had anything to do with hardening their attitude do you? It is the violence that is a problem. Violence begets violence. So when you revolution comes, if ever, the best advice is to eliminate the violence as much as possible. Just stop buying what they are selling. That would be sufficient.
When Lee went into Pennsylvania he gave specific orders that no private property was to be stolen & the citizens to be left alone.
Not like he needed to...we have never been that way...but hunger & thirst can cloud a persons judgement.
"Total war" was a concept that was and is alien to honorable and chivalrous people.
There is no honor or chivalry in raping a dead soldiers wife in front of her children as your fellow soldiers laugh while stealing the last food from the house before burning it to the ground.
By and large people tend to be passive. But being a pacifist isn't the answer when you are being brutalized and it certainly isn't a characteristic of a free people.
HPD I think Trav was being a little innocuous. However did you know that the black was treated far better than his white irish counterparts? For the record i am an american mutt with no allegiance to any nationality other than what i see in my mirror and damn am i good looking.
nevermind i just read your post below.
the I..RISH suffer†
Sorry Travis, but on this one you are way wrong. The first slaves in the American continent were white slaves. Im not even talking about indentured servants whose slavery only lasted for 4-7 years depending on the contract, but true life time slaves. Slaves whose children were born into slavery. Black slavery was much more profitable since African slaves were cheaper, stronger and easier to control (no common language or cultural understanding of their masters) It took me but 1 minute to find some quick references.
http://www.amazon.com/They-Were-White-Slaves-Enslavement/dp/0929903056
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html
True dat.
One of my ancestor's was an indentured servant...the more things change...;-)
I think trav was sarcastic [who...trav?? no way!]; good catch on real history, nonetheless
The black slaves were more expensive than the white slaves because they found out the black slaves would last longer working in the heat. The government troops used to just round up people who were living on the streets in Scotland and Ireland , load them up on ships and send them here. White slaves were called indentured servants which was a nice way of putting the term slave. Twenty two million black slaves were brought to the new world aboard jewish owned slave ships, yes all of them were jewish owned. Two million made it. Another words, 20 million black Africans died on the way here. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but could that be classified as a holocaust? Many of the plantations in the south were owned by jewish people. Heck, for the longest time, there was a jewish owned plantation by notorious Angola State Prison in Louisiana. They worked out a nice deal (at least for the plantation owner). He got free prisoner usage on his plantation, in a very nice quid pro quo arrangement. This went on for a very long time. I think the state finally bought that plantation from the heirs and today that is where the prisoners work raising their own food etc. Many jewish families in the northeast, got very wealthy in the slave trade. I find it kind of amusing that today, the liberal jews try and align themselves with black causes, even though it was their fellow tribal members who caused the blacks to be here in the first place. Oh well, shame on you HPD. Oh and one more thing. In 1897, they had the first world zionist conference in Basel, Switzerland (yes that Basel) and the committee members were discussiong where to have the new jewish homeland. Well member Theodore Hertzl wanted it to be in Uganda , Africa. But the Rothschild money interest , wanted it to be in Palestine. Of course, they won out. But it might surprise many why anyone would ever consider deepest darkest Africa for the new jewish homeland. Well by 1897, there were entire sections of Africa that had been depopulated by the slave trade , so Uganda was for all intents and purposes at that time , vacant and available. Just another in those many unconfortable historical moments in the history of the world.
I didn't know the Wolf family of Boston was Jewish (Faneuil Hall was built on the slave/rum/mollases trade).
Coveting profit & power are not confined to one race/culture or religion.
Oh yes. Slaves , rum and mollases trade? Ha ha ha, to be sure. Have you ever heard the story about the small pox infected blankets that someone shall we say , used to give to the Indians? I am not going to argue that point on your last point. I will let that one stand. No need really at this time. I have my views on this but I shall demure on the point right now. People can do their own research and come to their own conclusions on this and other matters. One thing is for sure. People had better start reading and fast. I think the internet as we have known it, is about to undergo some big bad changes.
"Have you ever heard the story about the small pox infected blankets that someone shall we say , used to give to the Indians?"
Yes.
all made possible by 'brown' folks' Hindu Numerals 'discovered' in Arabia by 'white' folks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
besides, trav, don't you know 'white' folks are African, too. which is too say, we are literally all cousins within 30,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genome_Project
after all, it is not 'white' folks who innovate, but rather any group of people who freely trade ideas and are rewarded for the fruits of their individual labor.
Slavery alive and well today.
Ask any of us married guys.
Oh come on now. You get to hit it a couple of times a month if you are lucky. Be happy in your work....ha ha
Some expensive pussy!
Try containing just 1% of thoroughly pissed-off Americans when they are spread across fifty states and believe that the government must be replaced with The Republic, as defined in The Constitution.
Hell, that's easy. All the PTB have to do is to finish crashing the dollar, stock and bond markets while instigating a false-flag attack or two (saturating cable news). As soon as the SHTF, the other 99% will police the 1% who suddenly find themselves painted into an unpatriotic position.
In other words, it will be just like the OKC false-flag attack that was used to discredit those pissed off Americans who decided to form local militias for their mutual defense.
Thats funny, if 1% of the people get really pissed, what news do you think will still work? Think about where news comes from and how it is disseminated.
Propaganda baby...they're masters at it!
This would help restore confidence-
http://www.alternet.org/story/148882/seriously,_jail_the_bankers_or_this...
All the Homer Simpsons out there are angry I say Angry, while stuffing 10 beers and 10 donuts down their throat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpLd0WQKCY :)
Hey look buddy. If a man can't hold his liquor and his donuts we don't want you in our army.
RASMUSSEN IS SO FULL OF CRAP.
Show me a Pew survey or Gallup survey that says the same thing---until then, blow me.
95% of Rasmussen's 'Likely Voters' (all 950 of them) watch Fox...
Note the distinct lack of any differentiation as to which parts of the Constitution the surveyed feel are being breached.
If some feel the income tax is unconstitutional, some say TARP wasn't legit, and some are tired of being spied on...you'd get the same results. This sophistry reminds me of the lumping together of cons against Obama-care with the single-payer crowd as a single fictional voting block.
I'm against standing armies for more than two years, so put me in that 65% too. LOL
Yes, armies should be allowed to sit once and a while.....
Wow you got junked fast.
(It's not so much that the message is being questioned, but the highly partisan messenger)
The Constitution for the United States was a tool. It served its purpose.
I've been around since midway through the last century, and we've not been a Constitutional Republic in my lifetime. There are other - larger - plans afoot, and it's a shame that even fewer people know of them than know of the Constitution.
Yes, it is true. so true. Who really knows the true purposes of this country. Liberty and freedom to some, were merely a irritating byproduct. I am hoping that maybe, just maybe, they push too hard in their quest. Maybe, just maybe, they underestimated the power of the human mind to dream dreams and to believe. For you see, too many think they are free even though they are not. Just thinking such a thing is a powerful elixor and cannot be underestimated. When you have a people that have lived and thought for generations, and also have been told numerous times that we are a free people, then the people believe it , even though it is not really true. This fact in and of itself can cause them problems for their plans for one world government and the downfall of the United States, since to the hidden hand, now this nation has come to a end of its usefulness.
You know, DPD, I was at the family T-day dinner thing yesterday (ages 6-93) almost all who consider themselves Repubs/conservs and I was sickened by the fact that I was the only one who had a problem with the whole TSA porno/gropee situation. Ruined my whole fucking day. We are totally screwed. I have been trying to educate these folks for over 4 years, all, apparently, to no avail.
You would have had a great time at my house.. All it takes is a motivated minority as always..
The topic came up at my Thanksgiving also.
Generally the older ones (70 and above) said anytime they were groped it was a good day...LOL.
Below that age and single there was muted rage.
And of course the parents to a person said if they touch my child somebody's getting their ass kicked.
Not as a knock on anybody, but I think we should all understand that most trouble-makers are liberals, whether they have a coherent philosophy or not. Call it alot of other things, and call all those things truths if you like, but there is a personality issue to be acknowledged here, as well the difference in perspective that being socially "disenfranchized" , or a sympathy with those who are, brings. Something to keep in mind when you start recruiting for the revolution.
40 years of subtle, covert and overt, brainwashing through political messaging has been highly effective. Pavolov's dogs salivated at the ring of a bell until his laboratories were flooded by torrential rains in Russia. Many dogs perished and of the ones that survived Pavlov found the programming was erased by the trauma. So it will be in the US for republicans and democrats constituencies alike since the dems do the exact same things regarding globalization, monetary and economic poiicies (ie Obama's 'failed' free trade agreement with S. Korea, and of course Clinton's Nafta drafted by a republican congress).
Republicans are more rigid in their belief systems indicating to me the brainwashing is more ingrained. It took a great deal of pain for me to divorce myself from the 'democrats are for the people' meme but the persistent drive for globalization by both parties has left me in a political wilderness that is void of good choices. The distraction of hot button social issues such as abortion, 'socialists' finger pointing memes and what not are highly effective in maintaining a highly divisive political environment which is the intent while behind the scenes highly destructive and the most important issues of monetary/economic/trade policies are agreed upon by the political elite as dictated by the international money power and controllers.
On a personal level, I enjoy the friendship of republicans and democrats equally with most of the people I associate with being republicans. I see very little difference between dems and repubs on a personal level... we all like the same things.
Your hopes of dreams are possible only if the primary needs of the masses are met. Take away their ability to meet their needs, and you take away any dreams of a higher social order, as reality dictates focusing on short-term survival.
See Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
If you question the level of freedom in the USA then try to visit North Korea (if they allow you). Maybe a trip to Saudi Arabia and see if you can get your Rosary, crucifix or star of David neckless through customs. How about a trip to China to discuss what happened in Tiananmen Square? The fact that we are openly discussing this issue means that it can't be that bad and in fact is a sign of health. I would start worrying if sights like zerohedge were shut down. I mean, things could be worse. Much worse...
Are you really that naive to believe that you truly have freedom of speech? The control that is exhibited by the westen "civilised" nations is far more invidious and sinister than the overt control shown by these "totalitarian" states.
Exactly...political correctness or nothing. Even on-line...speak the truth and get banned. People who speak the truth as made to look like fools...by fools.
If you question the level of freedom in the USA then try to visit North Korea (if they allow you). Maybe a trip to Saudi Arabia and see if you can get your Rosary, crucifix or star of David neckless through customs. How about a trip to China to discuss what happened in Tiananmen Square? The fact that we are openly discussing this issue means that it can't be that bad and in fact is a sign of health. I would start worrying if sights like zerohedge were shut down. I mean, things could be worse. Much worse...
Right. And rape is no big deal because some people get murdered. Point me at your wife and thank your lucky stars.
So you'll be OK as long as you can point to one or two places in the world that are worse?