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Marc Faber: "I Would Recommend People Buy Every Month Some Gold For Ever"
Marc Faber's latest thoughts on the euro (not good), on Greece (also not too good), and gold (good to quite good). "I don't think it will work out, and I think other countries like Spain and probably Portugal (and Italy) will then also have to be bailed out eventually, and it will lead to more monetization in Europe, one of the reason the euro has been so week... The pain of the austerity will be very, very burdensome on Greece, and eventually the economy can not grow with the kind of budget they will have to enact, and under these conditions their currency is way overvalued (they are in the euro). And so without the ability to grow, their ability to pay the interest and repay the debt will actually diminish.... I think everybody should accumulate some gold over time. I would recommend people to buy every month some gold for ever."
Faber's response to whether gold is the "ultimate ponzi scheme":
"Gold is not a liability of someone else, you really own it, you keep it in a safe deposit box, its quantity can not be increased at the same rate as you can print money which will eventually again weaken the US dollar. I am not saying that the dollar will go straight down, but eventually the purchasing power of money will lose."
Lastly, for Faber's view on why this time it is different, and the developed world will not be able to pull itself out by its bootstraps, his view:
If you compare the depression years, in the depression years we did not have credit cards and we did not have unfunded liabilities from Social Security, from Medicare, from Medicaid. These are all debts that will come due that will have to be paid by the government, and eventually this fiscal deficit will lead to a government debt that will then, because of its increasing size lead to sharply rising interest burden. In other words, in ten years time I would estimate that between 30 and 50% of tax revenue will be spent on the interest payments on the government debt. That will necessitate the monetization of the debt and that will then lead to a weak dollar.
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"That will necessitate the monetization of the debt and that will then lead to a weak dollar" - Maybe in real terms (vs commodities), but with this broad statment Faber wrongly implies that other currencies will be better off. Quite to the contrary, the GBP, JPY and the EUR are all headed for the toilet. The demographic situation in Europe is much much worse than in the US. The Europeans will drown in debt that they will have to issue in order to take care of their elderly as their population growth (= productive labor) grinds to a halt.
I think Faber's point is that gold will be better off than most if not all of the world's currencies.
If I made 100K last year and I owe $850K, how do I solve my problem?
This is the quandry that America finds its self.
Total debt to GDP ratio, including the national debt, agency debt (Fred & Fani - which Obama is doing all he can to keep off the balance sheet) and unfunded liabilities (medicare, medicaid and SS) is 850%.
Yes, many others may be worse off but this cannot be a reason to buy US equities.
What do you think?
What are you talking about?
euro (not good)
I would recommend people to buy every month some gold for ever."
I don't think he implied that at all. He simply stated a factual observation - the US government is going to have to monetize the debt at some point because the debt is so large that monetization is the only option besides default, and no government defaults unless it is forced to.
This in no way implies that the Euro, Yen, Pound or any other fiat currency is any better or worse off. The dollar is fucked. The Euro is fucked. The yen was already fucked. Gold is shiny. Gold is real. Gold is indestructible, divisible and valuable.
The extenstion of what you said here is that the "youth" in EU may not want to keep paying the bills for their elderly or the guest workers from Turkey and N. Africa may not either. Could get really ugly.
Whose the douche calling gold a barbaric relic in the video?
At a party Dorthy Parker, noted for quick wit, was challenged to say something funny about horticulture. "You can lead a whore to culture, but you cant make her think," she responded immediately. Same with gold critics denying history and recent event ... they dont look at history and they have thinking impediments. Let them drown in their sea of paper promises.
"No I don't think its a ponzi scheme." I bet he has said just that hundreds of times in interviews now.
"We havent even talked about Japan." Lets!
Gold - the ultimate ponzi scheme???? It may be a ponzi scheme but certainly the U.S treasury market is the ultimate ponzi scheme.
He IS a gold bug and does make a lot of sense, but every now and the he bashes gold so he can buy cheaper. He and Jimmy Rogers are the same
I am loading up on Fannie&Freddie paper. Forget about gold!
Getting ready for that AIG like reverse split say 100 old to 1 new. Maybe will see a reverse split in the FRN, too. We could go from green to gold ink?
But why gold? I am somewhat of a beginner so I dont understand its appeal. I understand what Faber is saying as far as why gold will appreciate, I just dont understand its origins and how it is relevant today.
It seems to me like gold is something people way back when decided to be the ultimate currency because it is "shiny and rare" and, in the present, we have gone along with this notion.
Please advise.
Gold = REAL money
Gold has essentially no intrinsic value other for jewelry, dental work, a few other limted uses. If all of the gold in the world suddenly vanished, our world would be just as well off. Really, what gold good for, except to treat
Gold Fever.
Because Central Bankers cannot print physical gold. The only way to debase gold is to counterfeit it with means such as tungsten cores, and that is a clear counterfeiting rather then just creating magic money on a computer. Even the act of counterfeiting gold requires real work as compared to hitting some keys on a keyboard.
What I think it's about is gold will rise, but it will rise not because gold is getting more valuable but the currency it is measured in is weaker. Meaning that all nations want to debase their currencies to try to pay off debts and raise exports. This will punish the savers and bond holders. Gold will rise in response to this printing. Though other things will rise like wheat, copper, soybeans, pork bellies, etc. Nealy things will rise in notational, some more then others. I see it as him advising people to own real things rather then paper financial instruments. Now gold is a interesting call because it's small and portable. No one doubts the value of a barrel of oil, but I find storing a few hundred barrels of oil a bit more difficult then gold coins.
I disagree somewhat. I think gold is hugely undervalued right now and will rise in real terms. Take away fractional reserve gold and phony warehouse receipts and look at backing base money with the real thing. Huge upside. You will not only preserve wealth but see your purchasing power dramatically increase...if you actually hold the real thing.
That's a good argument and it may happen if the level of manipulation is as high as people estimate. Perhaps it is but I don't know one way or the other definitely, I'm inclined to believe it is on some level, but I personally try to use conservative estimates on what my assets are worth and will be worth in the future. I do know I will hold onto my gold till it is pried out of my hands by desperate need so it if goes up in value fantastic, if not then the dollar lives another day and my life continues unchanged. If it goes up I'll buy some more, if it goes down I'll buy some more. This is an insurance policy for me, if it turns out that it's also a winning lottery ticket so much the better but I'm not counting on it and it's not the reason I buy.
And I totally agree on the real thing, why by an asset that has no counter party risk then add a counter party risk, that's nuts!
Yes, that sounds like an intelligent and conservative approach. Personally, I have no doubt about the massive level of manipulation, but I do have doubts about the time frame. They may be able to prop up the paper ponzi for a hellish long time.
You may want to take a peek at these videos (three parts). It's a presentation by Rob McEwen (Goldcorp, US Gold etc) on paper currencies and where he sees the current gold bull going.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B56E258514BF9250
Get a piece of gold money and feel it. Drop it on a table top and test the heft of it in your hand. A tiny area in the reptilian part of your brain will awake from dormancy and you will know why gold is the only true money.
+86
Just the right advice for a beginner thinking about gold.
Go buy some gold now!
I remember when people were telling me "Buy askjeeves.com stock TODAY!"
And then I didn't. Now, people ask me... what's askjeeves.com?
Nobody will ask me what gold is in five years, but it'll still be cheaper.
Based upon what? A chart? ROTFL.
What is your basis for an expectation in decline in the notional price of gold? Deflation?
State your case...I need a good laugh
You fell for it Trav. You rattled his cage now. Leave the fella alone.
I don't think he's quite old enough to shave yet.
Love the comment about reptilian brain, but on a spiritual level as well, gold was "given" to us as money, along with the admonishment to use accurate weights and measures. Oh yeah, and that "neither a borrower nor a lender be" thing.
Because you can trade it for other real things.
If they pull a Venezuela, Argentina, PRK, Brazil, Argentina (again), Iceland, Brazil (again), Mexico, US, Mexico (again), US (again), Russia, USSR...ok, shit it's a big list of nations that have defaulted or devalued, you may NOT be able to trade your FRNs for something real.
Gold is not special; it's just something that is relatively value-dense. If you could stockpile oil or wheat or iridium, what's the difference? It's translating PAPER into some form of real property. Gold just happens to be convenient for those purposes.
If you want to store your wealth in the form of a negative interest rate loan to an insolvent institution (savings acct in a bank), then feel free to do so.
If you wish to store your wealth in the paper notes of bankrupt states, that is your prerogative.
Anyone looking to "get rich" on gold is a fool. If I were to buy it, it would solely be as a translation of paper wealth to some real property. I'd buy a seam of coal or an oil tank just as surely, but you cannot put those in your pocket.
Way back when ... you mean about 6,000 years ago? And continuing in nearly every civilization and country except for a handful of dumbed down Westerners? Even Alan Greenspan knows it's the world's premium currency.
Look for James Dines interviews on you tube or visit www.kingworldnews.com
Adding, it is rare. 161,000 tons have been mined in all human history. Second, it does not corrode. The oil from your hands will cause silver, for instance, to corrode over time. Gold is timeless.
These pieces of paper with ink on them were not chosen to be used as money by the people. It was foisted on us by the Nixon admin and making payment of debts to the US only legal by way of FRN's. The fallacy many people make is that the market and people decided by themselves that they just all of a sudden decided not to use direct gold/silver to pay debts and conduct business, but to use bits of paper that are not backed by anything other than the full faith and credit of the govt, for whatever that is worth. It is people that ignore this fact that continue to reference gold as being barbaric and 'old ways' of doing things, no longer anything than just another commodity, etc...
"It was foisted on us by the Nixon admin"
Ouch - bad history, son. FDR put US on the paper (assuming you're American), Nixon defaulted on Bretton Woods, screwing our trading partners (who correctly knew the game was ultimately rigged).
I meant that the last link between the 'dollar' and anything tangible was done in by the nixon admin allowing completely unrestrained dollar creation going forward.
beacuase it really pisses off Master Bates,
and we like that...
LOL. Nothing pisses me off, friend. Sometimes I get a little bit irritated with people here, but I'm not angry. I'm never angry.
One of the things that I learned as I got older is that only my reaction to things matters. People can treat me like dirt, drag me through the mud, but only I can control how I feel. My life has been so much better now that I'm never angry.
If anything, I laugh off the insults I get from some people here. There was one guy that made me angry here, but I'm sure he'll take his viagra and get over it. I wanted to rip out his throat, but then I got over it. Then I realized how silly it was to want to rip out some old limpdick's throat cause he was an internet tough guy.
Life is so much better when you're never angry. I might be young, but it's the best lesson I've learned so far in life.
Just trying to be funny MB...
But the World Ponzi scheme of currencies
and debt is about to meet peak oil in
a big way, so go out and get yourself some
Silver Eagles before the whole fucking thing
blows up
Faber is one of my favorites. OK, mayhaps he comes off as a bit eccentric when he says buy a farm and a shotgun because things will get bad or buy some farmland as a hedge for when the bombs start falling; continuing that strand he said overnight in Singapore 'in order to distract the attention of the people, governments will go to war.'
Faber is articulating war as the 'circuses' component of Juvenal's famous quote. But hey Marc, there's a plenty going on under the big tent already. The manufacture of consent and content may not tip J6P to contempt.
And ain't no doubt that there is plenty of bread flying around.
In social animals, the alpha is the individual that ranks the highest. A beta animal will act as a new alpha animal upon the latter's death. The omega is the lowest caste of the hierarchical society, and they are usually the last that is allowed to eat.
Will our Alpha Males be able to maintain Omega Zen?
http://anonymousmonetarist.blogspot.com/2009/11/revolution-will-be-plagiarized-alpha.html
+1
For Faber on war. I definitely like that he's one of the few pointing out that obvious fact
AM,
I'm beginning to recognize that the most potent product of the "control system" is not bread and circuses but rather apathy. Or more to the point, that bread and circuses is what enables and/or reinforces our apathy, the seeming indifference, even tolerance, to our own destruction. The distraction afforded by the games enables us to avoid looking into the dark abyss where we would finally identify our own responsibility for that which we complain. Apathy is enabling this singled minded obsession for national/international suicide/destruction of the middle class.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apathy
Could you go into this a little more, and what do you mean specifically by apathy? People are ruled by their emotions, and in some ways very passionate even if is about sports or their favorite tv star. So I do not feel a general apathy in the people, they are bubbling with emotion though actions are limited to passively observing their passion. Are we looking at a Brave New World scenario where the propaganda is so good that the average person will fight to stay in the dreamworld they are in even if they are a slave and nothing more than a cog in the machine. Now I think they would, but I want to know how they did it and the why. How does one get a human being to effectively turn off their self-preservation instinct?
BNW was a very prescient work, but what is wrong with being a happy cog in a machine?
That's all anyone WANTS.
You missed chapter 17; the epsilon doesn't WANT to be an alpha. His role is the path of least resistance for him.
What we see is apathy toward reality and focused passion toward a mirage...this is a dissociative state where life is vicarious.
I'm glad we are not quite there yet. Most men still lead lives of quiet desperation, and they yearn for something more. Something holds them back from reaching for it, whether it be fear, social norms, peer pressure. They live their lives but want more but in some way are blocked from trying to get it.
I will agree that most people are focused on that mirage because drawing a path to do the work to get to a dream is hard. I sat down and tried to figure out a life path and it had far more work and toil then I would like, but it's what I have to do. Hell and as I modify it I only end up adding work not taking any away. We aren't all going to me movie stars or rock and roll gods, but instead of getting pissed off people instead are living in a dream world. That's one of the reasons I hate reality TV. It tells the world "Hey maybe you can get lucky and get on here and be famous and make your dreams on true" it's like another version of the lottery, it gives out false hope to the masses.
But there are still many of us that will have a passion for the real and work for it. I had my phase where I just wanted to drift through life, but I had a fire lit under my ass by my father. I want more I want more then just to be a cog in a machine. I want to build something something, I want to create art, I want to leave a legacy, I want the chance to live a dream, I want to be free!
I'm going through that drifting phase myself now. I mean, I've done a lot to accomplish my goals, but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding how to get from A to B in life.
I must say though, the time off has been nice...
But kudos to you for realizing that life is so much more than being a cog in a machine. I used to be that way too. I used to only care about money, and kill myself trying to get just a little bit more. Now that I don't have as much money, I realize that money never made me that happy when I had it. I don't need much, and neither do most people. What matters is the life lived and the happiness in it, not the amount of junk that you can buy.
Right on man!
To much of our culture is tied up in things and conspicuous consumption. I won't say moneys not important because it is. I know I'm saving like a fiend because what I want to do will take me having some savings.
And it's normal to hit a wall about how to get to the end goal. I was worried a lot about it till I got a moment of enlightenment from a random conversation. Sometimes the pieces will just fall into place if you keep your eyes and ears open.
That's because you're not happy.
You missed the point of BNW, the conflict between happiness and truth. Happiness is a harder master than truth.
Epsilons did not aspire to be alphas nor vice versa.
Freedom? What is that? Heroism and nobility are signs of political inefficiency.
All these aspirations to greatness are foolish and delusional.
I'll tell you what holds most men back - a total lack of innate talent. We live in a society of false aspirations, where every fat short kid thinks if he wishes strenuously enough, he can play in the NBA. "Just follow your dreams." Well, don't complain when reality doesn't do you the favor of conforming itself to your wishes.
Desire to leave a legacy? What is this, self-aggrandizement? You want to create art? Are you sure? I think you wish to be adored, to be admired, and to be "great" like the idols on television you revile.
I'd like to levitate since we're all throwing out wishes here.
I question if complete happiness is ever truly possible in that condition. And I'm not sure I follow you on what you mean by "Happiness is a harder master than truth.".
Freedom to me means the ability to make decisions and control ones destiny. Now we can question the possibility for this on several levels but the yearning is still there.
No doubt many do not have the talent to see their aspirations through, nor the motivation. And most will fail if they pursue that path, but perhaps some will succeed. You speak of little fat kids, Hulk Hogan was one of those fat kids, and maybe he is not your cup of tea but he lived his dream. If we are going to look at works of fictions then I would recommend Gattaca, an excellent film. Failure is a part of life. We are all failures, even the masters of the universe, nearly impossible task they can pull it off.
What part of leaving a legacy do you see as self aggrandizement? That I will to affect the world in a positive manner that will continue forward after my death? Would it be better I were a villain, or simply apathetic? You mistake the point of art, I have little interest in being adored or admired, the point of art is self expression not generating an adoring audience. I have an intense love of music and I hold no delusions of being a rock star with my mediocre skills, I play for myself.
So perhaps these desires are doomed to fail. Which is worse, trying and failing or never trying at all? If you wish to simply do nothing with your life knowing that failure awaits you that is your choice.
What is a "legacy" anyway?
Control is an illusion...we are all adrift on a ball of rock floating 93M miles from a nuclear fireball. Greater species than we have gone extinct.
What is truth? What is "good"? If you don't care about admiration, then you can create art anytime you like. Nobody stops you from expressing yourself.
What is stopping you then?
The truth is that nothing that any of us does amounts to a hill of shit in the grander scheme of things. Time will grind it all to dust; there is no immortality.
See...you fear death. It is the ultimate trump card on the illusion of control.
All this talk about apathy and freedom and the greater good and all of this...whose greater good? If a lie made more people more happy, would you tell it?
Do you understand yet how happiness is a harder master than truth?
Why are you here? If the path of happiness lies down self deception then why are you here? Where aren't you popping anti-depressants and watching CNBC? The truth us painful, and may not result in immediate happiness but likewise lies may result in immediate happiness but not in the long term. How many believed in the lie of the eternal housing bubble and are now mourning them being fooled?
Sure I fear death as most every other liver being on this planet. Fear of death is a great survival trait. A little rough for mother nature to get us to live if we have no sense of self preservation or fear of death. Sure I will die someday but there is no need for me to want it soon. Are you utterly fearless in death, and if you are so fearless why are you here? I feel that many of the shortcomings you feel you are projecting to others. Yeah time will grind us into dust, so what? The time we have now is what matters. If you like the pessimist view that nothing matters and all is meaningless then good for you, others do not agree. If things are so bleak and meaningless then why are you here?
self deception doesn't make ME happy.
It does for a lot of other people. What would happen in the Matrix if everyone woke up? Pandemonium.
Interesting comments on fear and death.
A person who fears death is more likely to die! Think about it. We have to learn to stop
fearing the unknown, because (at least so far!) when the feared unknown becomes known,
it was nothing to be feared..
Whether I die now or 30 years from now makes no difference to me. My only fear is dying
because I was unprepared! If I die with a full
stomach, a rifle in my hands and ammo in my
magazines, that will be okay (and hopefully
instantaneous!)
But stop fearing death, its going to happen..
everything is done for ones self. its all about love baby. either self love or yearning for the love of 'another'.
Please do not construe apathy as the absence of emotion. Apathy is often used to stuff or disarm strong emotions. The first sentence in the wiki link I gave for apathy reads,
"Apathy (also called impassivity or perfunctoriness) is a state of indifference, or the suppression of emotions such as concern, excitement, motivation and passion."
Apathy is often an artificially created emotion, adopted out of fear or frustration and almost always used as an emotional shield. I'm beginning to understand that apathy is created by the ego when the cat is starting to get out of the bag, when the consciousness is beginning to see through the ego's manipulation and/or filtering. The ego creates apathy to shield the consciousness from emotional harm, particularly when it becomes obvious that great emotional harm may result from the awareness of its own ineffectiveness or impotence.
There is a level of indifference to action but not to the end result. It's my humble opinion some might be fear based. You talk of the ego and it shielding us. Now is it not possible that a similar mechanism is at work because of fear? The fear that they could not change the course and they are financially doomed. That theego protects us from the terrifying truth and the end result is the inability to take action? Fear is a powerful emotion, fear that if they speak out they will be labeled a dissident, racist, terrorist, right-wing, left-wing, anti-________. That the will be isolated and cast from their peer group. This is to say nothing of fear of a physical reprisal which many governments resort to throughout history.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've always seen fear as the main method of control. As Machiavelli notes once should be feared and loved but if I can only achieve one then it is better to be feared.
EDIT
Just saw your edited response and seems we are in some level of agreement that this is fear based.
"Just saw your edited response and seems we are in some level of agreement that this is fear based."
We are in agreement.
Fear is the lowest common denominator, the lowest frequency response, the basic survival instinct that always compels action. Fear closes the mind and narrows the field of view. Fear is a mind killer and the ultimate control mechanism. The ego actually uses fear to some extent to justify it's very existence as a narrow slice of the consciousness. The ego creates or amplifies the perception of monsters under the bed to justify shielding us from the monsters under the bed.
Some people will be spurred to action, antennae up and constantly monitoring, others will TILT faster than a pinball machine.
Very perceptive CD.Thank you
Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious. -George Orwel
I'm beginning to recognize that the most potent product of the "control system" is not bread and circuses but rather apathy.
Yes. And it is deliberate. I read an incredible amount of stuff that seems designed to make us give up, to instill a sense of hopelessness, resistance is futile, you can't win, etc etc. I view this as deliberate cointel by dot gov. No one else has a vested interest in wanting to convince me of that.
This is an area I plan to more fully explore in my next article in the "End of Empire - Waking Zombie Nations" series subtitled "Chaos, Control and Conspiracy".
It ever occur to you that most people are not "red pill" types?
Don't project.
Besides, the premise is absurd ab initio. Who wants to be aware when reality is scurrying like a cockroach fighting a jihad for crazy people who live under rocks?
Most people are happy marching in unison off of a cliff - let them be.
The Savage's error was that value DOES dwell in particular will. He wanted them to like what he liked and value what he valued...this is narcissism.
I gave you Etienne de la Boite, did I not? Another idealist.
Ich auch empfele das man jeder monat etwas Gold kaufen.
When a central bank, like our Federal Reserve, announces a "targeted rate of inflation", they are telling us that by policy they will seek to dilute the value of their currency by that rate.
Faber is right about gold: central banks are CO-INFLATING and what appears to constrain them is more the relative FX cross than anything, meaning that if the US inflates a lot, and Japan inflates a lot, that not gives the ECB a pass if they want to inflate a lot too, it even forces them to inflate lest the Euro get too far out of line with other currencies.
The question then becomes: how best to invest and manage my personal wealth to prevent erosion of value. Moreover, how to manage to earn some real gain.
I have begun to store idle funds in precious metals EFTs rather than in money market sweep accounts. It appears that a lot of folks are doing likewise.
I would advocate that gold in not just a trade in fear or some sort of insurance. Gold is efficacious in its bullion form, since as a commodity its the only metal which does not oxidize, thus it forms the ideal substance with which to store value.
Secondly, gold bullion or coins also act as a mitigating factor in deflationary times. Without a price fix to limit its price, it will go about doing its job soaking up liquidity and devaluing currencies.
Imagine a fiat regime where they withdraw all excess liquidity in a panic move to stave off hyperinflation. What you would get is sudden hyperdeflation. If economies were to subsist on solely the currency in circulation, then the currency would appreciate in value, and asset prices would deflate relentlessly to reflect a strict relationship with money in circulation and whatever is left of the economy contracts.
This is essentially why gold is appreciating in value, because it is playing its role as a mitigating factor in debt contraction and soaking up excess liquidity.
But Mr. Faber is also temporarily bullish on stocks so when you put the two stocks, and gold together, you get GOLD STOCKS.
There are other metals that do not oxidize besides gold.
I don't prefer gold to any other metal, store your wealth in iron, chromium, mercury...whatever.
Gold is just real property, as opposed to paper which is, including the FRN, a promissory note.
Some might prefer a negative interest loan to an insolvent institution as wealth storage, iow a savings account, and that is their business.
Precious metals are preferable because they pack a lot of value in a relatively small size. If you could buy $10,000 worth of copper you'd get a huge pile that weighs more than a ton, while the same amount in gold fits in the palm of your hand.
"There are other metals that do not oxidize besides gold."
Please list those metals. Iron oxidizes badly in very short time and becomes weakened.
Chromium, when mixed with carbon steel makes stainless steel. But its more abundant by far than gold.
Now, mercury doesn't oxidize, but you could not use it as a form of money, even though its relatively rare. Its also highly poisonous.
So please, give me an example of an established alternative that's not in the least bit poisonous, and is rare in the earth's crust.
To my mind, no other substance than gold fits the bill as a useful substance with which to store value, and the only metal held in banks.
You have a purified gold bar with few impurities, and it will last millenia.
Dude, that is money.
And I say again, it has utility when debt collapses and it goes about its job soaking up excess liquidity. No other metal has this quality, because all of the others depend very strongly on inflationary pressures.
ok, first you have to freakin figure out what you want me to answer.
You said "doesn't oxidize" and then you went into how mercury is poisonous.
Do you mean is well suited to value storage or do you want to talk about oxidation? You talk about chromium's abundance...do you want to talk about oxidation or abundance?
"k, first you have to freakin figure out what you want me to answer."
I win, you lose.
Metals that do not oxidize:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Which_metals_don't_oxidize
Do you really care to continue?
I think the point is gold is the ultimate metal for wealth storage (if not the ultimate anything for storage).
Sure, other metals do not oxidise, but they are either more common than gold, poisonous, less practical for minting, radioactive etc etc
You can take the $100k worth of chromium. I'll take the $100k worth of gold
The british anchor is a tool, that's why he got promoted to work with Haynes. The cnbc team in the UK and europe is way better, they call it the way it is. Very bearish on the debt-crisis topic etc. It's like watching a completely different tv channel.
Faber uses a "Price-Blind-Argument." Gold could trade at $10 per ounce or $10million per ounce and he'd still be making a great point. But without a framework for valuation you're just hoping the next fool will buy into your argument. If Faber and other uber-Gold-bulls really believe that Gold is headed to $5k, etc, I suggest you go buy a gun, some livestock and a place in the country. Discussed here:
http://www.thealphaninja.com/2009/12/seems-like-quiet-day-apart-from-gold.html
Check, check, check. In the last two months I've bought a 12-gauge shotgun, a 0.357 revolver, and an AR15. Building a chicken coop now.
+91
perchp, I almost never reply to the same poster 2x in one thread.
Just plunked down my dough on a 9mm Berretta and a Russian AK47.
Disclosure: long gold!
Romanian AK's = superior. Still, I like the AK because of it's reliability. You can roll in it in the mud, take a piss on it, and it'll fire like it's brand new.
I like the AR because of it's accuracy. You can be a real pro at the shooting range your first time out with one. I was astounded at hitting the 200 yard target an inch from the center with no training or previous AR experience.
Whenever I see your broken record, unthinking, unoriginal posts on ZH, you're always arguing against the grain of a bunch of intelligent people. Are you smarter than the rest of us on here, or just another stubborn, young fool waiting for the world to pop your ignorance cherry?
You can roll in it in the mud, take a piss on it, and it'll fire like it's brand new.
And you know this from personal experience? Whatever. Get a Barrett: http://www.barrett.net/
Now, this is just fking STOOPID.
Dude, currencies collapse all the freaking time and there is no societal meltdown.
The last major imperial collapse was the USSR in the early 1990s. The ruble went from the Warsaw Pact's reserve currency to being unaccepted for retail transactions in Moscow.
Life went on. The world did not end. Guns and ammo were not suddenly priceless. Even the lights stayed on.
Jeezus, how many collapsed States are out there RIGHT NOW and life is not like these madmaxers say, anywhere.
You present a false dilemma along with specious conclusions. The entire "gold goes to $5k = find a survival acre" is sophistic at its core.
Beirut is still populated isn't it?
Nice! But watch out.
If anyone sees you bringing intelligence to the ZH party... you'll be thrown out in no time.
-BBH
LOL ... that was properly funny!!
ZH may have a conventional wisdom, but this place is far better than TF, where I have been banned about half a dozen times for the same antics of thumbing my nose at the drivel of the would-be cult posters.
I find it marvellous that in this thread we have CD and others talking about truth when in reality most of the posters want a group affiliation and to subscribe to certain blue pill belief systems.
We have people stating axioms like GOLD IS MONEY. Others who read tea leaves...it's great.
If I get thrown out, so what? I'm like cockroaches after a nuclear war; I just keep coming back.
Its a bit different here though trav7777.
We are the meanist , most violent society
ever known to mankind. Sure, we are quiet now,
but throw in a financial collapse, like we
almost had in sept 08,and we could show our
true colors really quick. Think Watts or the Rodney King riots back in the 90's
The country is full of anarchists, people just
waiting for any excuse to go absolutely nuts
What would happen if terrorists Nucs went off
in DC and NY simultaneously?
The modern world is full of examples of societal breakdowns, Bosnia being one example
It was a total fucking zoo over there.
We are not saying that it will happen, we are just stating that we want to be prepared
as best as possible
The image, in the Rodney King Riots,of the Korean shopkeepers standing guard on their
roofs with rifles is permanelty engrained in
my brain. It was only those rifles that kept
those Korean shopkeepers safe and their shops
unburnt....
You believe in hyperinflation, but don't believe in societal collapse from hyperinflation? Was there civil unrest during the Weimar Republic collapse? Was there enough food? How do you think the credit systems here will function during a currency crisis? How will our just-in-time food delivery systems work during a credit system collapse?
Fine. Buy a gun. Own land. Whats new? The government has always been crooked. Gold to $10,000 is not going to cause riots. Hunger will. And if you want to buy land, to grow food, what better to trade than gold and silver? This economic shift will be such a gradual change that the average 'merican civilian will not know about the NWO until Jackboot Jim is at the door!
Buy low sell high, Looking at the dow and gold over the past 10 years normally gold would be a sell and dow a buy, Timing isnt easy but gold is a unique asset class and its a good insurance policy and buying a bit each month for life then start selling when you are short of funds sounds smart. The gold bull probably has a few more years left but silver for me has real longterm growth.
I have gold and whatever the price is I will never sell until I am short of funds or things are so bad like the dow at 1000 making the dow a no brainer.
its not the dow at 1000, its when they get close to one another. when the dow/gold ratio is 1:1 its been a good time to switch over from gold to the Dow. Happened in depression, the 70's, and possible again. Whether its 10,000:10,000 or whatever, look for a closing of the gap between the ratio of the two.
You got it! Nail on the proverbial head.
I am a coin dealer and sold 6 ounces to a friend a couple of years ago. He hit some hard times and came to me to buy it back just a few months ago. I bought it and paid him much more than he paid for it. He was amazed and thought I'd just give him what he bought it for. I explained spot price to him as well as I could. He was more than happy. I explained that it could have gone the other way, but his purchasing power would not have been diminished.
Gold is a hedge. Period. It is not an investment. It is a store of value (even if the "value" is U. S. dollars). The main thing most folks get wrong about any precious metal is that it is accepted around the world as money. Another thing that is misunderstood: When you "invest" you give up control of your money. That's true even if you put money into a savings account -- it's not yours until you ask for it back. (Good luck with that in the near future.) When it's in the bank, at your broker, or otherwise not in your pocket, it's not YOURS.
I get so tired of the "you can't eat gold" argument (elevating such idiocy to the level of actual argument). Don't look now but you can't eat currency, stock certificates, electronic data, nor oil/copper/ETFs/SPYs/etc. ad nauseum.
Gold in bullion form is yours. Always. There is no other claim on it.
As for the gov't confiscating your gold, they won't. It would give credence to the value of gold. TPTB won't do that. Yeah, I know, it's been done before. But, we were on a gold standard and many citizens held physical gold. And, being the lemmings that they were, they turned a lot of it in! Not today. There are not that many folks with gold on hand, and the ones who do also happen to have lead aplenty. The gov't is pretty stupid at times, but last time I looked they were not flat out suicidal. We like heavy metals: lead, gold, and Led Zeppelin.
China clarified to the planet along with its client, Russia, at Davos 2008 its plan and scheme to destroy the dollar as a financial institution; since then, China has mandated Brazil to settle accounts in yuan having first publicly humiliated US, China has divulged to the planet its replacing US as primary trading partner of not only Brazil but even Saudi Arabia, China has divulged to the planet its replacing US as gratest consumer of not only raw materials but even a "high-value-added" consumer product like cars. Why hold any dollars at all?
Good q, Chalie, why whore any dorrals at arr?
Is gold a PONZI scheme? Yes it is ON PAPER, yet the more demand for physical delivery may see an end to that.
RUMOR: Word is some are settling PAPER gold contracts that demand physically deliver at +25% over face value to keep from delivering actual physical gold.
ALWAYS TAKE PHYSICAL DELIVERY.
When Goldman starts pumping physical gold I'll start to worry. Until then it is all Gold Man...(well for me silver)....
Q: what's the difference, between ignorance, and apathy? I don't know, what is it? A: I don't want to talk about it.
"Under the shimmering diversions of the spectacle, banalization dominates modern society the world over and at every point where the developed consumption of commodities has seemingly multiplied the roles and objects to choose from. The remains of religion and of the family (the principal relic of the heritage of class power) and the moral repression they assure, merge whenever the enjoyment of this world is affirmed--this world being nothing other than repressive pseudo-enjoyment. The smug acceptance of what exists can also merge with purely spectacular rebellion; this reflects the simple fact that dissatisfaction itself became a commodity as soon as economic abundance could extend production to the processing of such raw materials."
Debord, The Society of the Spectacle, 1967
Anyone else notice how the London Mkt sells the SHIT out of gold most every freakin day?
they've always been a good little toady to US demands/desires - just look at gordon brown and his BOE gold sale debacle.
During the Weimar episode, a German professor took out his entire life's savings and bought a round-trip subway ticket across Berlin. He then returned to his apartment and starved to death.
http://everything2.com/title/Hyperinflation+in+Weimar+Germany
this is the same "gold" that would get confiscated if things got to the point where you actually needed to use it right?
You'd be better off buying a house that you can rent out at every increasing rents if and when the hyper-inflation comes. And besides, aren't your houses "dirt" cheap now?! Sure beats paying the highs in gold.
WOW, dude your so smart.
The government would NEVER THINK to confiscate your FRNs or your bank account or your land.
You'd better delete that post before one of them reads it and gets some ideas.
Yes, I intentionally misspelt "you're."
Let's do a little thought experiment here...you're facing hyperinflation...what the fuck are you going to do, raise the rent every hour? You REALLY think you should accept rent payment in paper that you couldn't exchange for ass gasket half a day later?
What would you DO with that paper so as to minimize your OWN downside? What, you're just going to hold it? Yesterday's rent would be worthless...hmm...what would you RUN OUT AND BUY with the paper?
Maybe something real?
Take that back, let's NOT do a thought experiment, because your head might explode.
What if you had the property leveraged? It now becomes that much easier to pay off your debt, no? And what about the asset itself, won't that value inflate as well?
I'm a becoming a bigger fan of gold everyday, don't get me wrong, but I think RE has its place as well. Tough to leverage my gold purchases.
How about leveraging anything else real?
The guy said don't hold gold because they'll confiscate it.
Like they can't confiscate everything else.
You can leverage gold, just get a credit card.
The precedent is already there for taking the gold on the good delivery lists - current admin has and is attempting more bodacious endeavors. But last time around, they did not take the mining shares, plus 90% of them are denominated in loonies - how can you not like anything affectionately deemed looney in this day and age - its contrarion sanity; and the miners in production have leverage built in.
Good luck confiscating the gold at my place. 2 acres ain't that much fun to search. Tell me the card that lets me carry a balance at 6-7% fixed for 30 years pre tax deduction. What place allows you to buy gold on a cc?
Tough to leverage my gold purchases.
Miners
This post is the reason I get pissed off every time a anti-gold brigade jerk opens his mouth. This same reason gets tossed around every-time there even a minor discussion on gold.
So let me clarify to dear huggy, the main reason behind confiscation of gold by FDR is that there was no fiat currency at that time, gold *was* the money. to get out of depression FDR had to 'print money' & that was simply achieved by confiscating the gold (& paying a fixed price) & then re-evaluating the gold price to something higher. For this reason alone it is pointless to confiscate the gold. they have already been doing what FDR did without confiscating your gold by a computer at federal reserve. That is how all the bailouts worked.
The reason gold *worked* (worked NOT chosen, we all know the reasons it was chosen to be money) as a good currency for a long time in the human history is simply because it took certain amount of resources to to find & mine it. hence nobody could easily 'print money' & erode wealth from under peoples feet. It was stable because the amount of net energy a civilization had was limited (quiz: how long it took to build pyramids? why?). The reason there was such a huge deviation from that model over last 100 yrs or so is that we found a much more efficient source of energy .. the black gold. that's when all the central authorities/banks realized the major limiting factor to do something is people's willingness & not the physical energy required to do it. This is how the paper (meaning unbacked) currencies were born.
So theoretically you can buy a basket of crude & NG futures alongwith equities you like but the problem as I see it (& I believe Mr Faber hinted at it) each one of those thing though are an asset, they are also liabilities to somebody else. So any disruption/dislocation in this chain of assets & liabilities would not fare well for you the owner.
That's all I am going to say.
-DesiLurker
Only 5% of the people knows what's going on.
95% are sheeple being led by the spin of Wallstreet,
FTV and the disciples of fiat currencies.
You try to tell them the writing in the wall but they
beat you up and label you as heretic or crazy like Copernicus telling them the world
is round or Einstien telling them E=mC2.
Just protect yourself. It's good few knows the real score.
Then you can accummulate wealth protection at very good prices.
Don't wait till it becomes 20/20, it might be too costly by then as the sheeple stampedes into it.
@Womb Service
"I disagree somewhat. I think gold is hugely undervalued right now and will rise in real terms. Take away fractional reserve gold and phony warehouse receipts and look at backing base money with the real thing. Huge upside. You will not only preserve wealth but see your purchasing power dramatically increase...if you actually hold the real thing."
there are other clever guys who agree with you. Jim Rickard s for one. he calculates its real "money" value at between $4-$11k
http://buygoldsilver.org/2009/11/gold-as-money-4000-11000-per-oz/
master bates = junior troll.
.
Master Bates is a junior -but he's got a better grip on finance than most his age. Not a troll. When he's in his 50s/60s he'll be teaching others that some forms of "money" are for trading/gambling or living day to day; yet others are several thousand years proven for storing and protecting wealth that's portable and private with zero counter party risk over lifetimes.
If he's as smart as I think he is, he'll pick up 5~10% per
year of his earnings in physical Au/Ag and stash it away in the bottom of his gun safe that is lagged into the concrete of his basement floor.
If not...he'll damn sure wish he had done so 30-40 years from now when he's staring retirement in the face and wondering what happened to Social Security/Medicare.
To Master Bates: shoot straight, and every month or so go plunk down a little paper for metal. Make it a hobby. Learn your local market, who's who, and how the metals game works. It's been a life skill for ~6,000 years my friend.
.
Gold is the ultimate ponzi scheme? Said within mere breaths of the US Stock Market, the Dollar, the Euro, the Pound? Gold? It's clearly not too late to add more.
I've never understood the argument for buying something "just in case" from a breakdown of the system prospective. Congratulations, you win and have some gold in the middle of a shit show...what 'ch gonna do with it now?
Transform it back to currency when the new economic regime arises.
Didn't buy it 'just in case' - bought it 'just because of'. When it happens I'll buy some bread with it. SF laying off 15k on Friday. LA going to cut 5k just from the school system. We'll be fighting over those green shoots soon enough - just for the caloric value.
so that's his Dad? look the same...but creepier with wrinkles
ZH is a gold-bug blog, that is all it is, period. All hail the herd! You are all unique in the same way, unfortunately.
apmex.com will gladly send you gold or silver in exchange for a cc number, cheaper shipping than kitco too.
sounds like the perfect argument for maxing out your cards
and telling visa to shove it. then you can goad the debt collectors into breaking the law, sue them for the win,
and send apmex a money order for more.:lol:
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2010-01-21/news/better-off-deadbeat-craig-...
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