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Market Breaks: After Hours Edition As NYSE Says It Is Investigating Pervasive Broken Trades

Tyler Durden's picture


DJ NYSE Reviewing Possible Bad After-Hours Trades In Many Stocks

PM Eastern Daylight Time May 02, 2011 (MORE TO FOLLOW) Dow Jones Newswires

U.S. stock exchanges said late Monday they are examining whether after-hours trades in more than 50 stocks should be canceled due to potential errors.

Nasdaq OMX Group Inc. (NDAQ) and NYSE Euronext (NYX) said they were reviewing potentially erroneous trades in 52 stocks executed in after-hours trading between 4:57 p.m. and 5:05 p.m. EDT (2057 and 2105 GMT).

The list of trades under review was dominated by shares of major health-care companies, including insurers Aetna Inc . (AET) and Humana Inc . (HUM), drug makers Bristol-Myers Squibb Co . (BMY), Pfizer Inc . (PFE) and Eli Lilly & Co . (LLY) and the consumer-products giant and Dow component, Johnson & Johnson (JNJ).

Nasdaq officials declined to comment on the broken trades. Officials from NYSE Euronext didn't return requests for comment.
Last week trading in more than 80 securities was halted after a problem in Nasdaq software triggered the release of stale market data.


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Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:02 | 1231881 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

wow wtf.... man i hate exchanges. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:04 | 1231890 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

put a bet on the gap closing up. let's see if it works for a quick FRN er two. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1231908 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

Come on, 1544... come on....

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:14 | 1231926 Phillips Capital
Phillips Capital's picture

there we go.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:49 | 1232235 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Where is CPL?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:02 | 1231882 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Markets are broken.

Get physical while you can get it.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:07 | 1231892 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

The last print on paper will be zero.  The print after that on physical will be the moon.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:07 | 1231889 kito
kito's picture

gold down 8 bucks on

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:12 | 1231915 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

That's like ten cents on MSFT.  It's not relevant to the secular and long term situation.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:07 | 1231891 kito
kito's picture

is it just me or are the comments sections on zh a little light since the plunge of silver?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:12 | 1231911 Robslob
Robslob's picture

Busy buying later

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:06 | 1232119 Wynn
Wynn's picture


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:56 | 1232426 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

ZH commenters = AgPPT

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 00:49 | 1232931 dalkrin
dalkrin's picture

I bought last week after getting paid, at the standing price of almost 50 dollars an ounce all told, and yet I am not regretting my decision, even with the trapdoor fall.  I am glad other ZHer's out there are currently BTFD to give silver the boost it deserves. 

We nameless multitude are hard at work to bring the veiled secret manipulations to justice.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:06 | 1231898 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

OT: hey look, a new record



Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1231900 string
string's picture

Gold plumets as world realizes it is useless, valueless.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1231907 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

buy lumber futures......

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:14 | 1231940 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture


Compared to what, the fine linen coming from the non-Federal no-Reserve. 

Just FYI there is this thingy called "intrinsic value" you might want to look into that; just a thought.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231979 string
string's picture

Intrinsic to what exactly?

The only value of that junk is what someone will trade for it at a given point in time.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232016 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Obviously you have no fucking idea... 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:19 | 1232154 string
string's picture

Correct. Don't pay any attention.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:09 | 1232301 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Let me try to explain to you folks. Gold's and silver's value arises from their utility as a medium of exchange. You seem to have a hard time grasping this. An object that serves as a medium of exchange has an intrinsic value, just like fissile uranium has an intrinsic value because it can generate heat. Seriously, any object that is useful possesses an intrinsic value. Utility is value. Gold is the best medium of exchange there is, and about 7000 years of history supports this assertion. This is in part because gold and silver are relatively inert, scarce, and malleable. This makes them highly useful as mediums of exchange, and a medium of exchange possesses as much utility as anything for which it can be exchanged. Thus, while water is necessary for life, and while you can't drink gold [unless you're Crassus] you can exchange gold for water. You can exchange gold for anything, and thus gold is more valuable than anything. Let me repeat - a medium of exchange is a highly utilitarian object, and in a working economy it is the most valuable thing because it can be exchanged for ANYTHING. Fiat is worthless as it can be created at the whim of governments, and it is. All fiat money is therefore inherently worthless and doomed to eventually fail. When the dollar fiat finally fails, it will fail very quickly. Gold and silver are also freedom, as governments control you more by way of your use of fiat. The government takes your wealth merely by printing more fiat. The argument that there isn't enough gold and silver to serve as a medium of exchange is bullshit. Go listen to some of Jim Rickards talks.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:14 | 1232311 string
string's picture

"Gold is the best medium of exchange there is, and about 7000 years of history supports this assertion"

Except when it isn't.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:21 | 1232329 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Why didn't you just post "I'm rubber, you're glue"? Your post essentially amounts to the same reply. You post no supplementary evidence either way, no examples, no theoretical principles, not even some half-assed anecdotal personal experiences.

Fact is that gold has historically been great as a unit of account, a store of value, and a medium of exchange. In the short run, there might have been more liquid instruments, but the opposite is most certainly also true - i.e. the Brazilian Cruzeiro is basically worthless - but the gold buried with the pharaohs is still worth a fortune.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:41 | 1232659 string
string's picture

Thanks. I'll use that next time I hear the same PM crap repeated adnausem.

And when the gov't confiscates or taxes the shit out of your stash, then what?

Or, when you wake up tomorrow and your little pile of yellow metal is valued at .5 of what it is tonight?

Even Rickards said this week on KWN 'expect volatility' in the PM markets.

Good luck realizing your holdings when you really need to use them. Because that's right about the time everyone else is going to be trying to convert their golden junk into useful goods.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:46 | 1232820 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

+10 Narapoid.  Elegant, clear and concise explanation. Fucking sockpuppets and trolls are merely instruments of deceit.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 00:12 | 1232865 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Paid to post lies.  Likely they were polysci or rhetoric majors who weren't good enough to find jobs in politics.  For them at least it pays the rent and keeps them from sucking at us through welfare.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232024 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Well go complain about, travelzoo, chipole.....

All junk

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:54 | 1232080 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Intrinsic to gold.  IE it is limited and rare.  Economic calculation engines like humans will invariably apply intrinsic value to gold, at least, so long as there is trade of some sort.

Gold is useful as a tool for promoting trade, just like a hammer is useful as a tool for putting iron spikes into wood.  It's value is intrinsic, but relies on the presence of one or more economic calculation engines.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:17 | 1232147 string
string's picture

I phrased the question poorly.

There is no intrinsic value other than what someone else is willing to give you for it. It is all perception.

Period. End of story.

A potatoe has intrinsic value.

Sure, a 'value' can be applied to it as a medium of exchange, as you say. I wish all the gold bugs the best of luck when trying to convert your holdings to something useful when the time comes.

Good luck hitting the bid. And, if you live where I live, someone will just shoot you in the head and take it from you if you are holding physical.


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:23 | 1232160 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

You mean, unlike the respective currencies of Argentina, Brazil, Russia, Yugoslavia, Germany, Greece, Nicaragua, China, Zimbabwe, France, Austria, Hungary, ... post their hyperinflations?

If you kept any of their notes, you'd have been wiped out. So what if the liquidity of gold and silver isn't that of contemporary fiat currency.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:28 | 1232185 string
string's picture

Or in the US where they can and have confiscated it. D'oh.

Are you mentally prepared to hold it back down to $600/sh? Less?

Way too many ppl on the USD/Hyperinflation side of the trade right now.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:58 | 1232266 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

That is funny.

If it went back to 600, I would still be up almost 200%.


Way too many people ignoring the fact that the system has broken, and perception is shifting more quickly by the day.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:58 | 1232277 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

The reason why it was confiscated was due to the rapid drawdown in reserves, not because of its relative value. Read up on history.

If it heads down to $600/oz, then we're stuck in a massively deflationary collapse. Since every problem thus far has been "solved" through printing money, I sincerely doubt this is the track we will ultimately travel.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:07 | 1232448 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You should read up on that.  They got less than 5% of the total amount of gold held by private citizens last time, and that only because it was held in banks.

No gold in banks this time.

Try again.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:56 | 1232257 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

No Problem with the phrasing thing, we all do it.

The intrinsic position you are taking might paint you into a corner.  We all wind up trading every day.  I trade some labor/work for linen with ink and funny words on it , in my case United States Notes.  Then I trade these coupons to someone else for real tangible things I might want.  If I use gold, silver, or coupons it is still a trade.

I have successfully traded my metal to those with stuff I wanted many times and have done quite well doing so.  My last trade involved a whole range of reloading tools for one single coin.  Brass, copper, and lead are good metals too, and have not appreciated as fast giving me the perception of a good arbitrage opportunity.

Our whole system is perception, and less people every day are willing to perceive the 'dollar' as holding value; this is why the metals have moved up in price (or should I say one of many).

Sorry to hear you live in such a shitty area.  My family lives in Alaska, the right to conceal carry is alive and well here, and anyone who tries that on me is going to have a few 200 grain 10MM slugs flying right back at them.

Are you really Dan Quale?  I ask this because you both spell potato the same...LOL.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:05 | 1232444 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You are basically arguing that humans place no value on something that can not be endlessly reproduced, specifically the value of such a thing for use in trade.

You might as well argue that humans don't trade.  It is a stupid argument that ignores reality.  No amount of "phrasing" will get you past that axiomatic reality.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:07 | 1232449 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

Something tells me they'll shoot you in your head for your "potatoe" before your gold coins.

You heard about the guy who stood on the beach and tried to sell real gold coins to random people and couldn't get more that $50? Just cause the mindless slobs wandering out there are clueless doesn't make the precious "valueless."



Tue, 05/03/2011 - 02:06 | 1233020 rich_wicks
rich_wicks's picture

Intrinsic to what exactly?

The only value of that junk is what someone will trade for it at a given point in time.

Tell me.

If I offered to give you 100 million dollars to go into time suspension chamber for 50 years, and assuming you were willing to do this and leave everything behind and I offered to either give you the 50 million dollars in $100 bills or in gold at it's current price - which would you pick?

The irony here is everybody knows the dollar is worthless currency, even you do - you're just thinking it's in a bubble because it's finally correcting off from it's lows after 20 years.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:27 | 1231998 jedimarkus
jedimarkus's picture

copper, lead, brass...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:03 | 1232110 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

hey.. hey! thats my line thank you very much!

J/K you have great tast.. throw in some tungstun core.. and you can have a real party!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 20:14 | 1232320 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

"...throw in some tungstun core.. and you can have a real party!"

Or you can try a little dab of Hg in a hollow-point, and a mere flesh wound is fatal within a few hours.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:16 | 1232150 string
string's picture


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:38 | 1232043 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

It is valuable as currency/store of wealth because it is useless, but unlike printed money, it has limited supply, is durable, fungible, etc all the reasons you should know by now and everyone else has known for thousands of years.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:46 | 1232819 AVP
AVP's picture

There must be only one person in your World, and that's you.

When silver hits $16 I'll take note...

When gold hits $875 I'll take note...

Not everyone bought in on the highs on this board. And even if they did

they'll be better off for it in the long run.

BTFD, newbies and bugs!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:10 | 1231901 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I need a crash in the gold price. I have too much cash. waiting...................

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:08 | 1231904 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Roll Over...


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:11 | 1231924 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Good thing the SEC is on the case-- nothing to worry. The number one terrorist is 'buried at sea' the other known terrorists: fed, IMF, Worldbank-- centrally planned authoritarian regime is at large but it's ok because slavery is better than living in a world filled with terror.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:15 | 1231936 TroyPDX
TroyPDX's picture

This whole day has been surreal

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1232097 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

It seems to me that most days are surreal at the moment.  


"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:14 | 1231938 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture


Treasure map found in Osama bin Laden's robe pocket, hidden inside a copy of playboy, showing where 1000 tonnes of gold is buried. President Obama has assigned a task force to retrieve the gold to repatriate it to the United States to help fund future (anti-)terrorist activities.


- Seriously, in this dumber than dumb world of cattle, they could put out the above statement and nobody would question it.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:17 | 1231953 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

I would, everyone knows he read Popular Machanics.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:02 | 1232107 Bob
Bob's picture

I had him pegged as a GQ guy.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 05:07 | 1233139 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Was it the fashionable headgear worn at a rakish angle? :>D

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:14 | 1231942 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Wow; arrogant elitists know they never will be prosecuted; Blythe must be having multiple orgasms; again what was the supposed time frame on position limits?  The folks at GATA have built a strong case; will it ever be heard in a court of law?

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:27 | 1231996 tamboo
tamboo's picture

no, osman, err, osama took care of the last round.

larry summers is sitting sheva  in thanks this evening.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:14 | 1231947 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

How many fat fingers get paid to play after the market has gone home for the day? 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1231963 Racer
Racer's picture

Hmmm and last Friday? when the ES and futures market went UP massive after hours when during normal market you could hear a pin drop and you could easily fall asleep watching the paint dry on the tape... not a murmur about funny trades

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231964 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

This pathetic excuse for a "free market" is becoming more laughable by the day.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:18 | 1231965 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

I have been freaking out since last nights crash.
When will some one just get these feaking bastards once and for all.

They are more dangerous than any terrorist.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:22 | 1231968 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

Hitting the Asian markets again right now and on the way back up :)

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:21 | 1231981 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

Same thing happened last night, it went up and bang!!! The whole came crashing down.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:55 | 1232084 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, but London and Europe won't be closed tomorrow.  No super-thinly traded markets tonight.

Also, they can't kill OBL again.  They might raise silver margins a few dozen more times this week, though.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:23 | 1231975 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

NYSE definition of broken trades = sell orders by a non-commercial entity.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:27 | 1232007 AboutAverage
AboutAverage's picture

I got to ask the question. 

Is there anything these exchanges can do to restore the confidence in the market place?  The reputations of these exchanges are total garbage.   Are we just looking at a limping horse with a broken leg?  


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1232090 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

No, you're looking at a 2-man horse costume with two fags of finance dancing around fooling the masses.

Record bonuses for that pony gig doin God's work fucking saver-America in the stink.

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 05:10 | 1233140 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Open-source ALL proprietary HFT software!

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:31 | 1232020 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i have trouble with this.  old skool slewie.

this was big time in treasuries, too, and the flash crash investigation from last may 6 goes into it from the SEC side;  the CFTC side didn't have the problem.  for every buyer there is a seller, ergo the fuking trade.  imagine that!

in the stocks and bond world, broken trades would be, like, ok, you can't trade anymore, shithead.  bye!  are these traders black ops for the goobermint gone wild or something?  do they have stinking badges?  if these markets have lost their integrity as markets, bring them back down to earth and slow things down enuf so people can tell what is happening, not what some fraudster is pretending.

if 80% of the "volume" is wash sales, stop doing the wash sales, for pete's sake!  if this puts our traders and market makers at a disadvantage, then outlaw other markets.  i can't play on pokerStarz, why should g/Sachs get to play OTC in shanghai?  then we sell the exchange to sally, then to joe, then to klaus.  didn't we just go throught this with mortgages?  round up the usual suspects, mcGriff.  what was it?  5 whole years ago, we had NYSE licenses for actual human beings on the fuking exchange floor to take care of this bullshit?

now, nobody knows nuthin? 

mama pajama better investigate.  again.  then, deregulate some more.  and, of course, charge it!  YouTube - Simon & Garfunkel - Me And Julio Down By The Schoolyard

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:00 | 1232571 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I agree.

The markets need to close 16 hours and let people think (and let the casino alone and talk to their loved ones).

There needs to be a physical limitation on trades; the speed of a voice or fingers, NOT binary digits at the speed of light.

This is why currencies should be tied to precious metals.  If the bank has to produce gold (heavy, tangible) for currency - a physical limitation is imposed on the bullshit.

But, in todays world, we seem anxious to keep screwing in higher watt light bulbs without care for the utility bill or that we are teetering on the metal stool in a flooded basement.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:06 | 1232061 Cdad
Cdad's picture

All massive flash dash up prints.  Nice.  Weaving a tapestry of algo confusion to create synthetic buyers of equities.  

The exchanges long ago lost control of the markets they are trusted to regulate and defend.  They fractured the exchange structure so that trades can go off at any price from computers in far away places.  Any fool could have seen how dangerous this market structure was.

I'm sure Duncan Niederauer is now fretting in the room next to where he takes his afternoon constitutional, looking for a software technician to throw under the buss while he sells the historic floor of the NYSE to the that he can cash out his stock options and finally buy that island in the South Pacific.

What a joke. 

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:49 | 1232073 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

No humans trading.  Computer algorithms and few bids cause spiral runaway in lockstep between rival computer bids.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 18:53 | 1232077 Jim B
Jim B's picture


Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:07 | 1232106 overbet
overbet's picture

The most bullsht of this is it happens everyday and nobody cares. It happens in a couple stocks a day sometimes and the kicker is the amount where they decide to bust is totally arbitrary. I have saved every example for the past year and sent them to SEC. Some as extreme as Nasdaq actually busted all trades above $14.40 on a $14.00 stock and the same day busted nothing, all trades stand on a $6 stock that traded up to $20.00. This is same day. It is total bullshit. This one today the beneficial party has more influence than the trader hence the 30% and not 10% bust. The stocks affected today are all components of the XLV which means a HFT was doing an arb against XLV and hit buy market or something. XLV holdings are identical to stocks affected.  

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 21:24 | 1232487 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

A trade is a trade.  Before a word of honor and a handshake was enough.  Later contracts and lawyers.  Now, not even an International Institution as the Stock Exchange can comply.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:12 | 1232138 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Gee, isn't it a very random & Anonymous event...

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:26 | 1232167 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Were the equities in question down, or up?


Never mind, I think I know the answer somehow.


The manipulation will continue until confidence is restored.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 19:34 | 1232199 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Marketwatch headline for now;



Exchanges cancel dozens of after-hours trades

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 22:18 | 1232603 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

And when the market crashes, people won't be allowed to sell their worthless stocks.

Mon, 05/02/2011 - 23:16 | 1232640 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

next thought map

These vulnerabilities may allow an attacker to perform SQL injection attacks, conduct directory traversal attacks, or cause a denial-of-service condition.

Black Dragon was traced already fyi

These attacks are dangerous in comparison to other types of Web-based attacks, because the end result is data manipulation. However, while SQL injection holes can be easy to exploit, they can also be defended.

I do not know the issue these folks are having but...

Tue, 05/03/2011 - 02:21 | 1233038 cashcow
cashcow's picture

Healthcare/Health Insurance will dump much much further...

NDM1 resistance - (W.H.O) a doomsday scenario for healthcare

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