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Market Tanks After Dick Bove Downgrades WFC
If this is the kind of garbage data that moves the market, then fuck this shit. Click here for a primer on Dick Bove.
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elegant.
Wasn't Dickie Boy on this morning pimping the sector saying Wells should lift the
Whole sector on CNBC this morning..????
Here it is 1m:15sec or so in.......
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1302711911&play=1
Tyler's on to that CNBC clip :-)
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/dick-bove-states-wells-fargo-proving-it...
indeed, words well spoken!
indeed, words well spoken!
I find the idea of fucking shit rather repulsive, however to each their own. That's why I own gold.
+1 for having an awesome screen name.
and the avatar dont hurt either...
But dude, wouldn't it hurt to fuck gold? Again, different strokes...
Amen brother Durden; there's no fucking way to win in a game with no rules, no referee, no time limits, and where the house has overwhelming assets.
Galleon's unwinding ........
I like how the HFT's all of a sudden forgot about their rebates and stayed on the sidelines as they watch the market plummet...I guess most of the volume in the stock market is all show.
@ Divided
Pure genius. That thought hadn't risen to my consciousness yet. I'm thinking that, over the next year, the rebates won't stop the ass stomping, equity beat-down that TPTB are about to unleash.
And the PPT were in the men's room pleasuring themselves for that last 1/2 hr in the market. Maybe there was a request on high for someone's options to get "in the money" before expiration...
You are correct, the market volume (like inflato-breasts) is all show and no functionality.
All that extra "liquidity" from HFTs decided to hit the bids this afternoon. whheeeeeee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQETQAW0jZo
We don't have a market. We have a choreography of computers that exchange 1's and 0's over fiber optic cable.
Markets are expressions of all human fear and optimism. This is not a market. This is a digital chew toy.
proceed to the head of the class...brilliant
thats deep...but honestly true
Amen brother Durden; there's no fucking way to win in a game with no rules, no referee, no time limits, and where the house has overwhelming assets.
Someone tripped over the extention cord of the HAL9000.
Dude, GS is moving into their new headquarters and someone unplugged the Dell. GS is getting a new Dell.
maybe ny times story saying Exec Pay at top 7 TARP recipients will be cut by 90% tanked the market
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/business/22pay.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewante...
I wondered the same thing. Maybe the big guys sending a shot back across the govt's bow? "Want our pay? Look what we can do."
So what if they got 90% pay cuts, they probably made a killing on this phony rally already to make up for it and more.
That is my bet. I doubt Dick Bove has any influence anymore.
Remember how the market tanked after TARP was voted down the first time?
Remember how the market hit its lows this spring after Congress threatened to tax bonuses at 90%?
Same thing today, pure blackmail.
Yeah, I saw that.
It's so funny, they're cutting executive pay at all these companies that got bailouts ...
... EXCEPT FOR GOLDMAN SACHS.
Fragile is, as fragile does.
Months ago I heard that we'll never again return to the volatility that we had in late 08. Never is a long time.
I'm awaiting the nosedive to Hell, when all this crap collapses, including the facade and scaffolding.
Buy VXZ9. It will never be this low again
don't buy VXZ9. this is the sort of thing options were invented for. buy the just in the money calls if you have to. then you won't lose a ton if the liquidity parade takes the vix to 18.
Maybe someone had to rewind the cassette tape at GS.
Yeah, I didn't know their back end was a TRS-80. Just a reboot should fix it though. HAL 9000 will have to sit idle until on the front end until the TRS-80 server comes back up from cassette.
Couldn't just be a WFC downgrade. Timing was too perfect with 30 min before.
If the market tanks like this on a lousy downgrade by a dickhead who missed most calls, then I cant imagine what the drop would be when some bigger shit hits the fan....oh actually, I mean what the rise would be, not drop.
Agreed. I am all for a market correction, but this sudden drop seems dirty.
Bove is the excuse, not the reason.
A drop in the last 30 minutes of trading?
Something changed in the Matrix.
Someone please plug me back in. I should have taken the blue pill.
Did you see the WMT release about offering even lower prices this year? The lowest in years?
This will pressure all the retailers and even the manufacturers.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Walmart-Announces-Hundreds-of-prnews-21386...
Dollar / Equity computer programs just malfunctioned.
The market is up to its neck in shit and someone just tossed a bucket of puke at it. The market is making up its mind how to respond.
I'm waiting for the well known analyst named Mr. Efficient Market to return.
He manages to show up every now and then.
Mr Efficient Market is only a prop used by professors to make a living. Everyone's heard of him and admire his cause, but like Santa Claus, very few actually believe in him. Everyone knows it's just a dressed up HAL9000 (or when he wants to get his hands dirty, could be a dressed up Loyd Blankfein)
Haven't heard that one before. Brilliant.
That made me laugh like crazy, or maybe I'm just giddy because it appears I won't be getting a margin call on my long USD futures account after all.
And inquiring mids would like to know if those 10K hats will reappear.....
What I love the most is a sell on WFC tanks Intel. ...because WFC buys a lot of computers?
Dick Bove. Mover of markets. What a laugh.
I want to be a Dick when..er.. I want to be like Dick when I grow up.
WFC took a deep breath and stopped buying for one hour.
dick bove moves markets at the same rate as i field calls from anna wintour.
perhaps someone realized that $100 crude fucks whatever shit the Fed has left in the U.S consumer. probably not
someone is liquidating. galleon had what $3.7B...
The promo effort is done. The pumping will stop.
Here comes the dump.
Remember, unless you sell you haven't made a dime.
Best... post... ever TD.
"I feel a great disturbance in the Force. As if millions of 19 year old twitchtards suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
it's probably just Galleon unwinding completely, in the last hour, before the big market crash that is overdue anyway, and they have less to lose than anyone going forward, so why not screw the Fed/governments big rally on the way out... <1082 here we come
I agree. The sell off looked like a hedge fund liquidation. Everyone at CNBC thinks every move of the market is news driven so they make up stuff when there is a void.
Woah. My screen looks like a dagger right through the heart of Dow 10,000.
This is how people start to get uneasy again. Spike down when everyone is sitting around lazily expecting the 3:30pm auto-ramp up. Refreshes memories of market movements other than constant drift up.
What time did Bove make the downgrade? I just checked the terminal, and Bloomberg posted the news of this downgrade at 15:43, which is 30 minutes after the market started to collapse.
Kass had it up at 3:25. Figure since he's openly shorting the hell out of this thing he put it to use before posting it. So thats what, 3:10-3:15? Something close? Market started breaking down at 3:10.
http://www.thestreet.com/author/1358076/DougKass/all.html
Tyler...you are dead on and I too share the frustration noted in your post. I am sure the evil empire (GS) was on the phone with Dick Bove (Mr. opportunity of a generation) and simply shorted futures and will have yet another great trading day.
This market is a joke...criminal!!
Another massive key reversal day. How many more do they need before they take notice?
Word leaking out fo something wicked after the bell?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swzh0ngMNJo
Dick bove downgrades = markets tank 150 pts from high
Unemployment numbers, housing numbers, consumer confidence numbers worse than expected = markets fly
I am sure the volume today on the downside dwarfs the upside by a mile.
Another massive key reversal day. How many more do they need before they take notice?
Could it be that insiders have had enough and they're already liquidating their longs in masse? Why is it that GS stock has frozen on its feet since Meredith Whitney said enough to greed? 70% of the market is ruled by computers... so, who's pressing the "Enter"? or is it "Esc"?? Alea iacta est.
Another massive key reversal day. How many more do they need before they take notice?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Say it's manipulated. "They" have to keep books relatively balanced. When's a good time to sell? Last hour before a slew of quarterly reports when many bears have kinda thrown in the towel for the day if not the week. I bought puts with good prices Monday, and Tuesday and was short spus woke up this morning. Let it develop. Scratched my futures on the New York opening ramp and took my small losses on on the puts on that pull back to 1092 before lunch. Took a break and came back and there was a textbook go with spot at 3pm. 1094 had traded the most this week(1094 was the widest spot on a market profile for the week.) Nothing going on. Sell 1093 and 1092 and look for a distribution.... Didn't do it. I'd pretty much decided to stay flat. Perfect example of what this market is doing to experienced traders. The funny think is the people who do the old school right thing(staying short with that spill will probably be under pressure by the end of afterhours and then blown up overnight). My vent. Btw, thanks for all the good work everyone.
jesus, it sure is gonna suck when BAC goes into the shiatter.....
Blah. Just Galleon getting rid of their positions. Dollar will be weak and the market will go bonkers again in the morning...
Nothing to see here, move along.
or maybe it's squid & co. (or those of their ilk) getting tweaky about their paychecks?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125615172396299535.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
Nah
Bove + WFC is too easy. Goldman is front running some information they received this afternoon.
Or the party poopers at BAC and C are showing what they can do to the market when you cut their pay by 90%. WAAAH!
This dick guy chose the right words on his downgrade footnotes to fire the selling algos.
trigger = AnalyseText((String)AnyAnalyst.LatestRating());
if (trigger) {
Sell(ALL);//gotcha!
}
DX boost?
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=s
90% will look much better when the pay cut turns into 100%....
I'm looking at you, BAC. Might even be casting a sidelong glance at you, too, "C"...
Euro holding over $1.50, Spy afterhours above close atm.
I intrepret this as Galleon took a dump and the market had nowhere near the liquidity to maintain composure.
Dear Plebeians,
Please be informed today I fell asleep as I was holding down the "buy SPY" button.
Not to worry, we have the next 18 hours to fix this; I've done some of my best work in the premarket where my SPY buys have much more effect. See you at +10 on SPY futures tomorrow morning.
Yours in lordship,
Larry S.
you are the "smartest guy in the room Larry"
have another Diet Coke.
What I really wish would happen one of these days is that the clowns who are buying 2M SPY at 4:15p will get burned badly. Like a 50pt SPY drop would cure this little problem they have.
I don't think it was so much the Bove downgrade as it was the executive comp. Remember back in Feb./March when every time there'd be a rumor about the drastic steps Obama was going to take in regulating the market, we'd shave like 300 pts on the DOW? I think today was one of those. Maybe this is the start of something beautiful. Maybe my FAZ and SRS that I've been holding for WEEKS will finally start to pay off.
Agree 100%. How much did the Dow drop when TARP was voted down? 700pts?
This is pure blackmail, that's all.
Amen!
It's called Reciprocity!
When you're good to Bankers, those pussies will good to you.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD156wvOvSg
Dear Plebeians,
Please be informed today I fell asleep as I was holding down the "buy SPY" button.
Not to worry, we have the next 18 hours to fix this; I've done some of my best work in the premarket where my SPY buys have much more effect. See you at +10 on SPY futures tomorrow morning.
Yours in lordship,
Larry S.
:-)
Maybe we're old timers. We've been around awhile and have seen a lot. But, we have a very "eerie feeling" about this market. Much like 1987. And, for those of you that experienced 1987, you know exactly what we're talking about. It will not take much in this market, in this environment, with these fundamentals, to pivot on one negative catalyst and send this market over a cliff. There is very little price stability under the market despite what is perceived to be actual bids in today's, abnormally "low vol" environment. Real liquidity is scarce. Folks need to really examine their risk management profiles and make adjustments to protect their portfolios.
+1
i remember that day well.
this is just one of many of thousands of "seen this movie before" plays.
darn portfolio insurance schemes...
AR,
I worked at Salomon in 87 but I didn't trade. What would you have done differently (besides being short), if anything?
I was not yet wiping my own ass then, so I count on y'all to share how exactly it was back then. Thank you for illuminating that period for us and please continue to share as these feelings strike you.
steak....get a book or two and read about it. for a great look at the current mess, read "house of cards" by Cohan (bear stearns) and even a better one "a collosal failure of common sense" by McDonald (lehman). both show the crap going on inside (exactly what is still happening now, even worse because of the fed, treasury involvement) and the lehman is better as the details of the housing mess/securities is very nicely laid out.
Wordup, I am a voracious reader and appreciate any and all book suggestions. What is equally important is hearing firsthand stories about those days. What did someone feel in their gut, what was the mood hanging in the air, how did people see the future at that time? All important things to understand that can only be gleaned by hearing about it from someone who was there.
Those damn program traders of 87 are back and illiquid...deja vu... couple days late !!! I wish I was holding apple till today ( my first margin call)
Galleon takes a dump, the biz reporters around the globe glance at last Bloomberg headline and declare Bove moves markets 2%! LOL
or maybe the real big block traders are panicking over the dark pool news. HAL9000 did I good job blowing air under the retail stock indexes up to this point and now they'll have to reset back down to the true hidden from view values far below these levels.
looks, my forecast to Sell UST, Sell USD, and Sell the stock market, Buy Gold, is a little ahead of the schedule. oh well, thanks Bubblenanke
I see no reason for the Gang to be losing control yet.
I believe this is a trap to get shorts in. No different than all of the "corrections" during this "market" rally.
WFC is a large holding of Warren Buffett's and we all know that Buffy's picks will always do well over time (wink, wink). So, don't listen to Dick Bove (more winking).
SkyNet was offline. Should be back up by morning Futures trading.
What's up with zerohedge server?
Anyone else having problems posting?
Yes. Probably crashing from all of the bear tracks (me included).
yes, just with a relatively tiny intraday reversal the floods of readers came in.
Just imagine what happens on a -500 dow day.
check out the VIX rocketing off 54 week low this afternoon - doesn't look good for equties tomorrow.
it seems like instead of entering "the buy" command into HAL 9000, someone entered the command "giggly, giggly"
(the rumors of GS covering its commodities & high beta equity exposure, might be true after all...)
You can do better than Dick Bove just by following my posts on ZH. Reference his opinion on Lehman (linked in the article above) vs mine on ZH: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sell-side-pushing-all-their-might-infla...
Then reference his comments on Wells Fargo before their earnings (above) vs what I posted to ZH: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/if-bubble-bubble-bursts-balance-sheet-w...
Too bad ZH doesn't have the effect on the market that the sell side does. If it did, we may actually have a semblance of an efficient market...
Reggie,
I know it wouldn't be good for your career, but we'd rather keep you as our little secret (j/k). Seriously, I believe Bove moved the market about as much as I believe that Paulson wasn't plotting the overthrow of the world financial system in Moscow last Summer. BTW, did you see this gem from Mohammed Rafeeq posted on KD's site last night (we know that you know, just interesting to see others coming to similar conclusions):
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1522-JP-Morgan-Earnings-Mirage.html
Nice point. Investors were probably looking for an excuse to sell.
Richard had made some good calls in the past, and that may be why they sold today rather than yesterday.
By the way, the Invetrics DJIA index timing signal switched to Short prior to market open today (unrelated to the analyst's comments), and warned web site visitors of today's potential drop in the market.
It is up a respectable 64.84% for the year (as of October 20, 2009) and it is free of charge for individual investors at:
http://invetrics.com
@admin
"Richard made some good calls in the past."
What, like pre-history or something. This is the man who said Shittybank was a generational buy at like the 30's and Lehman as a buy the day before it went under. Dick Bove has cost a lot of people a lot of money.
A move like that is a small glimpse of what will happen when the in-crowd decides the party is over.
There is a massive air pocket under the market where the shorts would normally cover.
Long equities is a crowded trade - if it melts, it will be stunning.
"Wall Street - The Meltdown"
Every bid gets filled!
Everyone is a winner! Hooray!
Now if that's not cause for celebration :)
thats what u saw today , the in-crowd squeezed the last bears left, then became the first bears in!
brilliant.
Just like NORAD runs simulations on the system, GS or somebody ran one but forgot to flip the output switch to internal.....oops
In A Galaxy Far Far Away ......
THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
Guess we had to have this war between the rebels (pay czars, audit the fed crew, Obama gang members using the regs to make sure they get a "fair" cut of the tax payer spoils) and the Empire (a few big banks who hold our financial system in the palm of there very kind hands)
My guess is that the Empire wins easily. After firing the Death Star a few times (think 70% of daily market action moving south with momos in tow) and deploys one of its Sith Lords (BIG UNMANAGABLE DEFICITS) the rebels surrender.
IF however the rebels put up a fight on Hoth and dont flee after the Death Star has been charged (today) then we will have a blood bath.
As a momo I am perparred for both ....
Dreamryder
Today some key IB targets were met in the Euro/Dollar and the CRB. The selling in the stock market was an attempt to jump start a dollar rally. It anticipates a stock market correction of 5 or 6 hundred points. Their backs seem to be against the wall, so if this try fails and VIX makes new lows
expect a bigger plunge in the next couple of weeks and the beginning of some sustained bear action in stocks.
Big dojis today on SPX, RUT and DJI. Right at the previous highs. Right at or below the long term trendline on the daily depending on what index you love.
1 of 2 things has happened.
1. The retail long is back in the game.
2. or Wall Street has finally figured out he ain't comin back!
Prepare for a good bull butt-scrubbing, and no, that comment has nothing to do with Dennis Kneale, although he's about to get corn-cobbed too. Today was the turn. Of course, I'll continue to use defensive stops, just in case. Been wrong before.
all the big boys were selling in the pit, selling those contracts like there was no tomorrow, what a choreography
squeeze everyone in the morning, grab your shorts at 1100 then flush it down the toilet!
brilliant.
Prediction: the day reality returns to the markets, zerohedge.com will crash from joyous readers flooding the site ;)
Isn't that like Santa downgrading Elves? WFC? WTF?
No worries he will just upgrade something else tomorrow. Viola: +120.
My question is: With the intervention buying by the banks and PPT-who exactly is going to "Sell off" this market.
The banks got UST for agency trash. That was free cash for your dead 1. Then the banks sold UST on open market and FED sopped it up. That's free cash for trash 2. Then the banks, probably on FED orders go and gun the markets. I mean , overpriced crap like GE is still better than worthless Agency debt.
So, unless the banks have been selling stocks to funds, pensions and hedgies on the sly, WHO IS GOING TO SELL OFF?
Until we have critical mass in volume and broadbased retail(indie) ownership the market isn't going to dump.
I suspect this 90 point dive to the floor is a headfaker for the shorts to get squeezed. Remember, the PPT needs shorts to turbocharge the buys at midday,
I copied a bit from Bloomy before coming here to find that TD front ran me. So actually Dick Bove(the same one who was recommending many of the failed ibs before their failure)still moves market. But of course,any one who reads Daneric,knows that markets move first and then news follow(that part I believe in,not so much the iminent p3 though).And I thought we grew up beyond dick garbogee .What is his phd in,anybody?
I'm waiting for commodity confirmation before I believe this selloff. Although today's dollar moves strike me as capitulation and an end to the carry trade, I want to see proof.
Bove moves the market. Is Tyler saying that is a BM?
bowel movement?
"Why yes," she said innocently, batting her eyes.
BM = Bove Movement = Bowel Movement
Thanks for playing with me Anon #106166
Cast....zzzzzzzzzzzclick and reel
;-)
If Bove's WFC sell call was a significant catalyst for this move down, could we conclude portions of the market see it as confirmation of the WFC rumors that drove the Dow down 187 back on Sept. 1?
If so, things could get interesting here.
Formal Poll:
Dick Bove -
1. Giant Douche
2. Turd Sandwich
Thank you for your reply.
I like your effort at fun, but he is already a Dick.
Or see my prior post on BM.
Sorry, "Dick" was supposed to be #1 - followed by Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich.
I find your choice 1 offensive to feminine hygiene and 2 offensive to organic fertilizer.
Preview of coming attractions. This was just the teaser trailer. The next trailer will we more substantial and the movie will be a blockbuster or should I say a bullbuster.
Quite a number of da boyz switched allegiance in the past few weeks, publicly - google Timmy and Larry. The rest feel fadunked. Could be Nov 08 deja vu all over again.
Interesting how Gold barely budged despite market tanking. I think during the next phase of the stock market crash, Gold will rise - the exact opposite of what most market participants are expecting right now. Somehow gold bears have conveniently choose to forget that this exact behavior was exhibited at the beginning of this year - we saw Gold and stocks locked in an inverse correlation. It wasn't until April 20th of this year that Gold started moving up in unison with stocks.
Also very interesting that the dollar barely went up as the market tanked. How bout the dollar and stocks go down at the same time as everyone flees US investments? Or PM's and the dollar go up at the same time as it has happened before? That'd short-circuit a few HAL9000's. Then Gold and Silver go to the moon, JPM defaults on its PM paper shorts, and we move to a different country!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GO-irf4ZP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MyToTwag34
Take two aspirin and call me in the morning.
Noticed:
The dollar index hit right below the 75 level, a big deal and oil marched straight up with the market. At $82 a barrel, no sweat, gold starts to tango and we have mega problems. Gasoline goes up and the little guy is rancid french fries. $82 gas and gas higher kills this economy and the consumer. The t bill doesnt know which way to go but decides rates need to go up, another no no. So what to do. Take the market down and it cools the rest. Are we setting up for a huge surprise dollar reversal or are we going to be tossed to the wolves?
Nuff said, TD. Well done.
"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"
Bove keeps two sets of books for his track record. Six months from now he will cite today as his prescient call on WFC.
You give way too much credit to Mr. Bove. The S&P's failed, the dollar ticked up, and the market sold off. Why do you look for reasons where none exist ?
You give way too much credit to Mr. Bove. The S&P's failed, the dollar ticked up, and the market sold off. Why do you look for reasons where none exist ?