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Max Keiser And Gerald Celente Deconstruct Financial Fraud

Tyler Durden's picture


Max Keiser at his best, deconstructing the global ponzi with Gerald Celente, another very much outspoken critic of the broken financial system. Most ZH regulars will be quite familiar with the overriding themes exposing the mass corruption perpetrated by the kleptocratic oligarchy, yet Max as always delivers the message with his patented iconoclastic panache that just draws you in.


h/t Ian


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Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:22 | 368222 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

Love the Max...I hope Celente is right about a progressive/libertarian alliance as a party...I guess we can see the beginnings of this in the Ron Paul/Alan Grayson unity on Audit Fed but I have a hard time imagining such a party actually happening in a few years...but who knows what else will happen in next few years...interesting times.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:47 | 368242 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

It is my belief if they audit the Fed it will mark the end of the old financial order dominated by the central banks in general and the fed in particular. This audit will motivate the fed and the likes of Goldman Sachs and JPM to sink the financial system into chaos and take everything down with them. There will be little choice as the fraud will be laid bare.

Precious metals will be the only surviving valuable asset! Welcome to the New World Order.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:49 | 368287 Hdawg
Hdawg's picture

I'm all in physical gold (because there is really no other hedge) but still remain skeptical that it will back the next currency system.  I suspect the coming SDR unit of credit, that will replace the USD for global trade, will be backed by the phony carbon credit -

a) the NWO establishment no longer holds any gold so would lose all power.

b) carbon credits are/will be 'scientifically' finite similar to gold. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 02:51 | 368347 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

If you needed an even more surreal currency system, that's the one, right there...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 03:56 | 368375 Hdawg
Hdawg's picture

It's an energy currency which is far less surreal than our current state of affairs

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:44 | 368642 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Carbon "credits" is NOTHING BUT a ecological/economical/political/whateverial SCAM<period>

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:15 | 368675 Hdawg
Hdawg's picture

I totally agree, but 95% of populace do not enter into debate. They just accept the governments word for it. So it does not mean they won't pursue it.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:33 | 368698 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

indeed. that is exactly what it is.  Common sense about eco related items has more value than the gore scam....but common sense is even more rare and precious than precious metals.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 08:41 | 368457 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Would it not be more stable to use tribbles as a currency foundation as they also are backed by science as demonstrated on a classic Star Trek episode.  That way one could always use the phrase "the trouble with Tribbles" when discussing economics.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:29 | 368486 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

They do have a certain multiplier effect, don't they? 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:56 | 368331 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

No they won't - you never shit where you eat!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:05 | 368505 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Just read a Daily Bell interview of Hugo Salinas-Price who clearly explains why, from a Austrian Economics/successful Mexican businessman's perspective,  “We have met the enemy, and he is us” ought to resonate with Americans. 

America needs a new government.  The current crop of politicians are corrupt to the core except for Ron Paul.

Here's a few snips from the interview.  Good stuff. 


Hugo Salinas-Price on the Nature of Money and Why Silver Should Be Legal Mexican Currency

Sunday, May 23, 2010 – with  Scott Smith

The Daily Bell is pleased to present an exclusive interview with Hugo Salinas-Price.


Introduction: Hugo Salinas Price, 75, is a successful, retired businessman who lives in Mexico. He has been a follower of the Austrian School of Economics since his youth. He has written three books in Spanish on how and why silver should be instituted as money in Mexico, in parallel with paper money, and numerous related articles in English and Spanish, posted at his website. His organization, the Mexican Civic Association Pro Silver, is actively lobbying the Mexican Congress to approve legislation, which will institute the pure silver "Libertad" ounce as money.


Daily Bell: What is your plan for the silver Mexican dollar? What is it called?

Hugo Salinas-Price: My plan is to have the Mexican silver ounce monetized, i.e., turned into ready money. It is called the "Libertad". This coin would come into circulation in parallel with paper and digital bank money.

People would then have the option of obtaining this coin for their savings – on which no interest would be paid; unlike deposits in banks on which the banks pay interest, people would save these coins even though they pay no interest. This is as it should be: there is no reason for people to expect interest on their savings, if what they are saving is worth saving.

Policy all over the world today, is to promote consumption. This is total nonsense! Savings must come before, long before consuming.

Families who have savings are happy, satisfied people. They are secure in the knowledge that they have solid savings for emergencies and for their retirement. This makes for a happy nation. And that should be the object of politics.

Daily Bell: What does Mexico have to do to become a successful State in your opinion? Is America the problem?

Hugo Salinas-Price: I wouldn't say that Mexico is an "Unsuccessful State" at all. It has problems which are common to the whole world and which mainly arise from the world's having abandoned real money by stages, beginning in 1909, or 1873 if you want to go back that far, when the US government decreed that the Treasury would no longer continue to accept all the silver offered to it and return it minted into dollars.

I must admit that the US has forfeited its leadership in the world, over which it had such mighty power after WW II, by unwise behavior in the sphere of banking and money. You have an oligarchy in power, actually running the US Government behind the scenes, and they want to retain their power at all costs, even sacrificing the American People to their ends. Together with their brothers in the UK, they are the prime obstacle to a reform and renewal of Finance and Money, to put the world on a path to sustainable prosperity. I believe they have put a rope around their own necks due to their obstination and avarice. The rope is closing in on them – note the rising gold price.

Daily Bell: Is America headed for a depression or hyperinflation? How about the EU?

Hugo Salinas-Price: I think the US is already in a Depression, but the Media are keeping the news from the people. If Bernanke's creation of massive amounts of money ever gains traction by the money filtering down to the people, then inflation will take hold, and Bernanke will not be able to stop it, try as he may. The Genie will be out of the bottle!

Europe is in for a bunch of trouble. I do have a suspicion that the EU was deliberately attacked by US Finance. Certainly, Europe dug its own grave with their version of funny money, although they kept up appearances pretty well until given a strong push by the rating agencies. Perhaps the European Monetary Union will fall apart and the euro may disappear as things unravel.

Full Interview:

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:41 | 368548 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

1st up is always ZH. 2nd up is Dailybell. I then thrash about looking for the meme of the day. Got any good suggestions for where else I might poke around for something worth looking at?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:31 | 368696 h4rdware
h4rdware's picture

It is might be worth perusing cryptogon if you are into deconstructing the memepool.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:52 | 369306 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

I'll look, but My expectations are limp. My guess is that we shall discover that digital is cheap porn, and eventually, we will get pissed enough to recreate our birthright.

I will let you hit me first. Seriously. I will.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 17:46 | 369081 RabidLemming
Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:11 | 369255 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Info wars seems really lame and commercial. I don't trust it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:53 | 369690 RabidLemming
RabidLemming's picture and its sister site are most definitely FOR profit enterprises, although all the content is available for free including the full length films.  So while the page may seem like a tabloid ad section the information is well worth looking at. It took me awhile to get past the slickness of it also, but then everyone has to pay the bills.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:40 | 369278 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Thank you. I will have a look. Are you familiar with Excellent gathering in my opinion. Very juicy nuts.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:40 | 369188 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"Hugo Salinas-Price: I think the US is already in a Depression, but the Media are keeping the news from the people."


Ya think?, you sir are dead on.................with a REAL Unemployment rate of around 22%, the only thing keeping a mass revolt off the streets, is 92-96 weeks of unemployment benefits.

Stop that, the SHTF, and don't think it's being extended for any other reason, it's not,except.............

You could bring yourself to think(can you?), that Big "O"is adding to the roles of permanent welfare state leeches, and will call that favor in, for the NEW Prog's he's got planned later on?...................More B Shirts.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:40 | 368547 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

let it happen... since nothing will happen.  they act like humanity won't function without their usury claws

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:56 | 369314 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture


You go bitch.

Speak truth to power.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:47 | 368816 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'll tell you exactly how a Libertarian/Progressive ticket would run: the so-called Progressives would throw a hissy fit the minute the so-called Libertarians decide to adopt a policy that reduces funding for social programs while the so-called Libertarians will walk when the so-called Progressives try to "fix" healthcare by raising taxes.

The animosity will reach a crescendo when the so-called Libertarians, being mostly gun-toters, mow down the so-called Progressive side of the caucus during one of their conventions.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:37 | 368888 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Chumba, you pointed out two of the contradictions between Libertarians and Progressives (what an awful word the latter is).

So, it won't even get to the point of a convention.

You Progressives can breathe a little easier now.  You will not get mowed down unless you come for our stuff.

He is Chumbawamba, while I am a mere writing bearing.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:18 | 369261 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Not only are you Chambawhatever: You are also fucking hilarious.

I hit it like this on a lame ass post a short time ago.

So the 'progressive' and Ron start talking. All is well up to the point that they get into finance. At that point Ron get's serious and begins to speak Austrian.

The fucking 'progressive' then attempts to steal Ron's wallet.

Then we woke up.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:04 | 369612 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

Well, Ron is from Texas. So I don't think he will be either liberal or "progressive" on them stealing his wallet.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:30 | 368271 Janice
Janice's picture

Ditto..I hope Celente is right about the progressive/libertarian party also.  I swear, I think that politicians & the media keep stuff stirred up just to make sure that the people are at each other's always stirring racial & sexual orientation tension, just to keep the spotlight off the important stuff, like enslavement of the entire masses via economic servitude.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 06:40 | 368410 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"just to make sure that the people are at each other's always stirring racial & sexual orientation tension"

bingo!  we have a winner!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 07:57 | 368433 Narcolepzzzzzz
Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:52 | 368572 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Hey - it's working against Rand Paul. Left tees him up and Right punts his ass...

FYI "Would you have voted for the Civil Rights Amendment?" should have been answered, "It was passed before I was born and I have never actually sat down and read it. A major part of the problem with Government today is the willingness of politicians to opine on legislation they haven't read, something I will not do, period."

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:04 | 368588 trichotil
trichotil's picture

rand is bought and paid for like the rest.

"Israel and the United States have a special relationship," Rand's position paper begins. "With our shared history and common values, the American and Israeli people have formed a bond that unites us across the many thousands of miles between our countries and calls us to work together towards peace and prosperity for our countries."

Rand goes on to support free trade with Israel, call for divestment from Iran, and "strongly object to the arrogant approach of (the) Obama administration" toward the peace process. "Only Israel can decide what is in her security interest, not America and certainly not the United Nations," he asserts.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:08 | 368659 seventree
seventree's picture

He is obviously lacks his father's political skills, and I mean basic things like "always be aware of who you are talking to." For example when speaking behind closed doors to a select audience of coal & oil CEO's, dismissing coal mine fatalities and undersea gushers with "hey, accidents happen" will probably go over big and produce generous contributions. Saying the same thing on mainstream TV doesn't play as well with the general public, especially those who have lost friends and family or even their livelihood as a result of preventable accidents. This sounds pretty obvious but apparently never crossed the conciousness of young Rand.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:40 | 368797 mchawe
mchawe's picture

Rand Paul has his nose right up Isra-hell's arse.

Peter Schiff also suspect now for his endorsement

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:42 | 369177 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"rand is bought and paid for like the rest."

Care to explain your meaning, as I am lost as to your reference................and meaning.


Rand is dead on correct, and personally the openess and honesty is refreshing.

America, and Israel share a common foundation of Faith, and religion, started well before the Founders came here.

As usual the Media (Progressive Owned), twist's shit totally out of context..................their like Huff PO..............

Go all the way back,to another Progressive for his time, Teddy R, although Teddy was a Progressive, he KNEW the connection between the God of Israel, and Christianity......and the curse that went with those who opposed Israel.

He fought having IN GOD WE TRUST put on our currency, and  $20 St's, why?.

Not because he was all into Separation of Church and State(to which their is nothing in the Founding docs at all,another Progressive lie), but he was upset that the currency, and  $20 St's primary use was in the Mining camps,towns, and used to pay bar tabs, and whores.TR, was upset in that it Demeaned the basis this was a Judaeo/Christian nation




Sun, 05/23/2010 - 22:07 | 369334 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Have fun. Men die for Women like Ayn. I would so love to smell her!

That animal bitch gets my cock so fucking hard.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:19 | 369263 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

I'm drunk. Are you the Divider?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:31 | 368943 been there done that
been there done that's picture

Great old Movie called "Blue Collar" w/ Richard Pryor was about Auto companies and unions:  "They pit the lifers against the new boy and the young against the old. The black against the white. Everything they do is to keep us in our place."


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:37 | 368492 Fazzie
Fazzie's picture

  Hot button issues like say, gays in the military, or gay marriage etc., give the two parties a nice issue to argue about. It makes it look like there is a difference between the two parties. Afterwards when the cameras are off,and the doors are closed, the gop and dems and the lobbyists all come together in a very bi-partisan way to carve big loopholes into the  financial reform bill.



Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:24 | 368526 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

as GW said in a post, we have to stop the partisan crap...and wake up!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:59 | 368832 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Precisely.  +1000

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 18:59 | 369148 DosZap
DosZap's picture

A Progressive/Libertarian party to me  is an Oxymoron.

IF you use the definition of a TRUE Progressive=Socialist/Communtist.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 21:34 | 369273 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Jesus Christ!! Can we just be serious for once?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:37 | 368277 MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture

"I hope Celente is right about a progressive/libertarian alliance as a party...I guess we can see the beginnings of this in the Ron Paul/Alan Grayson unity on Audit Fed but I have a hard time imagining such a party actually happening in a few years..."


I agree.  The people are slow in waking up, so I too think this is at least a decade down the line.  The Tea Party is just the birth pains of a greater movement that I hope will be more enlightened in its ideals.  I believe that our current social safety net, as piss-poor as it is, is the only thing keeping America's streets from looking like Calcutta.  On the other hand, I RESENT our government's intrusion into our lives in exchange for this safety net.  I have been calling myself a progressive libertarian ever since I heard Celente coin the phrase because I feel that we can take the best out of those philosophies and come out with something more civilized and just than the status-quo-two-party-corruption racket we are enduring today.  I really hope that a New Renaissance will come out of all this shit we are dealing with today.



Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:53 | 368291 Apostate
Apostate's picture

It's not really a safety net.

First, the government fucks up businesses by distorting price signals through inflation.

We're further crippled through misguided regulations.

When I worked as a temp in various physical labor jobs, most of the poor people that I worked with relied on food stamps and government housing to keep them afloat. The wages were mismatched to the artificially high cost of living - but they could enjoy an acceptable standard if they kept working and remained in the good graces of the system.

The government support network also entrenches power in certain families and gangs. The only way you can get a slot in public housing is through family, gang, or government connections. So that's another built-in constituency that will oppose conventional political reform. 

It pays to have a more holistic view of why life is so distorted. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 04:35 | 368377 Popo
Popo's picture

WOW, I really don't like Celente at all.   IMHO his message is deeply confused.  On the one hand he talks about the message of capitalism, and the necessity of a "sink or swim" society in which those who have failed, must actually fail.  (ie: Not get bailouts).   But then he labels his message "Workers of the World 2.0".   That's inherently *not* sink or swim.  

His message wavers between outright socialism, and actual capitalism.  Well, which one is it Gerald?  

Apparently, it's the former.  Celente shows his true colors when he goes off on his tired class rant about "white shoe boys" and "Hah-vahd".   As if the majority of Ivy league graduates are represented among America's political elite.  Newsflash: The full range of constitutionalism, responsible capitalism, liberalism, neo-socialism and nihilism run equally strong among Ivy leaguers.   (I'm sure Elizabeth Warren would resist Celente's attempt to equate Harvard with the oligarchy.)

IMHO, "true capitalism" should be the goal.  The idea of "failure" must be restored  (at every level of society).  Celente pays weak lip-service to this end and then goes on to promote his neo-socialist agenda in which "workers" are but naive innocents who have been railroaded by the evil powers-that-be.   Please.   

I'll take a pass.   This is propaganda socialism 1.0


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 05:17 | 368386 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Failure is relative in this case. People fail not to have entities to bail out. Or more straigthforward, some entities manage to get too big to fail, succeeding in getting a bail out ticket.


People fail. People succeed. Too big to fail is a product of competition.

There is nothing to restore on this point.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 07:49 | 368416 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture

Thanks for the "newsflash" scoop Brady.......

The only thing running "equally strong" at Harverd Princeton and Yale is the Ethic of screwing the middle class- period! That's why it IS a problem that a majority of the "elite" IS represented by H P and Y! Throw in a little CFR and you have Evil incarnate, ie Sommers(H),Bernake(P) and Clinton(Y). The CFR must be exposed and eradicated.  Disclosure: When the SAT scores arrived the Dean yelled at me "You should be going to HPY" I said screw that, I'm not being co-opted, and I'm not.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 07:10 | 368419 jailnotbail
jailnotbail's picture

I think you're giving Celente a lot more credit for being a political theorist than he would claim or deserves.  Most of what he says is off the cuff elaboration of his reaction to the societal and cultural phenomena that form the basis for the trends he details in his newsletter. 

He doesn't make much of an attempt to express his reaction in the bland, abstract, and unemotional language of reasoned debate.  He just tells you what he thinks in no uncertain terms.

And he speaks in the language and manner of the working class, freely expressing contempt and disdain in plain terms that convey those sentiments in tone and deportment, as well as words. It puts a lot of people off because it offends their upper middle class sensibilities of the proper bounds of debate.

But he's not just contributing more vitriol to the discussion, or fomenting class consciousness without justification.

See the following for elaboration in more refined and politic terms

All The Privileged Must Have Prizes

The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:25 | 368482 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I'm ultra-critical of the Ivies...

But it's true that there's a lot of ideological diversity at those schools - among the students.

Among professors, neoliberalism is more or less a religion. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 08:37 | 368455 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

I agree

Two socialist trying to create a utopia

The banks did not overspend into bankruptcy --- govenments did

The banks cannot print money Only the fed can

Too big to fail -- a government program

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:22 | 368525 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

You contradict yourself.  TBTF is, as you so succinctly point out, a merging of government and banking.  After all, who owns and runs the Fed?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 20:21 | 369217 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

The banks.


It would be nice if they were to give America a reach around, while they dry fuck us in the ass.  Looks like the fluffers in Congress are going to keep them big and hard for awhile longer.



Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:28 | 368485 qualia
qualia's picture

Having taught at the Ivies, I can tell you that whatever their political philosophies, they all apply to GS, McKinsey, etc.  And the institutions promote the banks heavily at Career Services.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:42 | 368552 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

I think you fail to see the problem and the solution because you think it must be "capitalism" or "socialism" and since Celente is bouncing between those two in your mind, he is suspect. When you have the governments of the world working in the interests of a few wealthy elite, connected people that own and run banks and big businesses, is that socialism or capitalism? Celente tries to define it as corporate takeover of the state, as fascism.

But I don't care if its a rich dictator, an "elected" but corrupted-by-crony businesses government, a royalty/kingdom, slave plantation, a banana republic, an oligarchy, tyrannical centrally planned USSR type govt... if a small elite group of people are calling all the shots and parasiting off the work and money of the vast majority of people, it is bad for our liberties and bad for the general economy/common wealth and we should and are beginning to resist it.

What is the FED? socialism, capitalism, a democratic govt institution? How 'bout a cartel of private bankers that we gave power to print our currencies, spend whatever money wherever they want.

You can be both against regular working folks being financially skinned alive and against TBTF/moral hazard bailouts, these things are not inconsistent...unless you want to put them in intellectual boxes conveniently handed to you by the MSM and think tanks.

If we did not have corrupt governments and powerful elite banksters using monetary policy only for themselves, we could have vibrant, innovative economies with the best of private markets guiding us pricing, investing and consumer needs and wants, and still have plenty for working folks to live decent lives. Instead, we have parasites sucking us of our life blood.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:26 | 368875 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

You make some excellent points, moneymutt, but unfortunately there are too many who are unschooled in fundamental economics and history.

What has been long missing in the USA is economic democracy.

What has long held sway is socialist plutocracy (socialism for the super-rich, with everyone else on their own). 

This is obvious to an educated electorate, but alas, in the dumbed down Dark Age we now exist in, it is considered most recondite.

Bloody revolutions come forth, historically speaking, due to conditions which now exist in the U.S.A., and throughout parts of Western and Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, etc.

Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley -- the public part of the bank-oil cartel (plus the oil companies and private equity firms) follow a tried-and-true method to steal -- but it all comes down to their stealing taxpayer funds to charge those citizenry with usury.

Time to shut them down.....

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:24 | 368937 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

 +10,000 You nailed it.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 17:01 | 369030 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The problem for the elites in their dumbing down of the population: uneducated people are limited in their arsenal of strategies in dealing with issues that are beyond their scope or understanding. The elites had better not rely on the logic of their arguments when dealing with an angry mob. Anger is an indicator of a lack of strategies. One strategy left to the dumbed down is to fight. Dumb people fight wars. Don't be their enemy!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:56 | 368579 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

I'm sure Elizabeth Warren would resist Celente's attempt to equate Harvard with the oligarchy.

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat, Popo. Just because EW may not have made the personal decision to sell out doesn't mean that she hasn't had a front row seat at the cradle.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:30 | 368488 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

I've seen the potential alliance for some time. The deal breaker is finance. The Left goes nowhere without lot's of OPM. If ZH calls right and the system collapses then an opportunity may exist. Depends on which elements of the Left though. The Marxist are pure poison.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:24 | 368527 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Paul & Grayson Team up Again - The War Is Making You Poor Act

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:23 | 368865 KTV Escort
KTV Escort's picture

Pouring billions upon billions of our tax dollars down the toilets called Afghanistan and Iraq sickens me. China has better things to do with its money, like building out its infrastructure (3 Gorges Dam, high speed trains, highways, etc)... if only we were doing that here with a new clean energy grid (jobs).

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:46 | 368644 AxiosAdv
AxiosAdv's picture

You can't have progressive libertarianism as he described it because one ideology is totally counter to the other.  You can't be progressive on healthcare and education yet be libertarian in any belief.  They are completely opposite ideologies.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:49 | 369481 James Quigley
James Quigley's picture

I am currently running for Congress as a Libertarian.  Personally, I like the progressives when they discuss the disparities in our society such as those involving the poor.  Where we disagree is the role of government in addressing these issues.  I believe that it is not simply a strange coincidence that the larger the government has become, the larger the power the corporations also possess.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:24 | 368227 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

get ready.  its gonna get ugly.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:42 | 368238 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Spunky and Beefy. Those two together are officers in the revolution.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:48 | 368244 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

Max is always just a good read. Thanks again ZH. Click the ads brothers.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 02:03 | 368336 Pedro
Pedro's picture

What ads?  I used to see them, but, not anymore.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:56 | 368250 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Auditing the Fed wouldn't necessarily end it. But it would force the media to deal with the issue more.

The culture has no fucking clue how to handle a society without central banking. The education system is geared towards training party apparatchiks - everywhere in the world.

You look at newspaper columnists, radio hosts, etc. across the spectrum, and they're mostly geared towards using the power of the government to appeal to various emotions.

Ex: (R) Diaperheads will kill you and eat your children. We must wage eternal war to extinguish the existential threat they pose.

(D) Your children are innately stupid. You lack the time or confidence to educate them yourselves. Allow our state-sanctioned priests to give your children the training they need to be good slaves. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:28 | 368534 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Auditing the Fed wouldn't necessarily end it.

Yes it would.  Enough people know how to add and subtract, and there are enough analysts who could break down the info into terms simple enough for mass digestion.  The central bank is the weakest point of the oligarchy.  The MIC relies on it.  The welfare/warfare state relies on it.  It fuels the TBTFs, so the national-level political contributions rely on it.  Auditing the Fed would in turn force audits and resultant ending of ECB.  The Fed is the keystone of the whole goddamned system.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:45 | 368558 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Agreed on all points...

But they could keep the system going through naked fiat, at least for a little while. Nothing else keeps it going now, anyway. The people who want to audit the Fed know it's a piece of shit anyway. The people who oppose it probably have trouble comprehending what the thing does, and frankly just want to eat another steak and get drunk...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:52 | 369193 DosZap
DosZap's picture


That POS, has had the USA, and the World by the testicles since 1913...............

Also, WHO here actually thinks we are going to get a REAL honest to God, audit?.

The Squid's have very LONG tentacles..............longer than most have a clue.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:50 | 368729 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I can't remember who made this exact point, but ending the fed is secondary to ending the powers of the fed. The distinction is important, because if we simply end the fed, this only nationalizes the fed in reality. The powers of the fed would then just go to an even less competent group; that is, congress.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:09 | 368846 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

That is the design of the system, however flawed it might be.  The people would know that there was no one else to hold accountable other than their "elected representatives".

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:35 | 368946 thesapein
thesapein's picture

That's just it though. No one entity ought to be accountable. The responsibility should be on all of us, which is why I do like our original constitutional limits on such powers.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 18:53 | 369144 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The people were supposed to be accountable through their "elected representatives", but the aggregation of power corrupted the institution and thwarted the will of the people.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:56 | 369197 DosZap
DosZap's picture


 Amen, should have never allowed it to begin with...........then again, the way it was done was as sneaky as the Fed of today.

If not more so.

Sat, 05/22/2010 - 23:58 | 368252 JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

I like listening to Keiser, but I despise his views on unions and "the workers."  Unions, especially public sector employee union, suck ass and are almost as evil and corrupt as the banking system.  Screw them, public sector employee unions should be outlawed.  All they do is suck the life out of everyone else.  Assholes.  :-D

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:06 | 368255 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I'm unaware of anyone aside from academics, certain politicians, and union leaders who actually reveres unions.

Most union workers despise their leadership and the culture of sloth and corruption that it inculcates.

If you spend much time around the REAL working class, there's nothing but contempt for unions, which use political power, favoritism, and connections to prevent competition and literally keep hordes of people in poverty.

There's this recurring character that you run into if you've spent much time around the lower classes - the dude who went to a trade school, received his certification, and is still waiting in line to get a job as an elevator operator or electrician after many years.

I doubt Keiser has ever performed physical labor...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:12 | 368259 JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

My experience has been the opposite.  Most union workers that I've encountered , not all of them but most that I've met, love their benefits, salaries, perquisites, retirement packages and endless other morsels that they get for almost nothing.  It's not just the union leaders who are slothful and corrupt but many union members are as well.  They all feel like they're entitled to something and they sneer at everyone else as long as they get theirs.

They way things are going they're in for a big surprise.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:22 | 368265 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I suppose it really depends. And not all unions are the same.

There are private sector unions that do tend to function well without severely impeding operations. I only have one long-term friend in UPS, for example, and they seem to run a functioning operation despite organized labor.

It's wrong of me to generalize.

And, yes, they're in for a shock - especially when their intimidation tactics (see: SEIU, teacher's unions) fail to bring any more manna from the gods.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 02:19 | 368340 aleph0
aleph0's picture

" Most union workers that I've encountered , not all of them but most that I've met, love their benefits, salaries, perquisites, retirement packages and endless other morsels that they get for almost nothing. "

Yes, they also have become part of the "Establishment" ( George Carlin's CLUB ). A few years ago, the leader of a German Worker's Union was caught Insider Trading.
I could go on, but you get the picture.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:03 | 368753 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I've never understood why insider trading is seen as such a bad thing. Seriously.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 07:16 | 368413 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

johnicon, the unions do not comprise the entire set of the working class.  from my experience, and many modern union members (not all) don't belong in the working class at all (that is those who actually work).  this is the art of the con you see : spending more time & energy pretending to do something instead of actually making an effort to do it & masquerading as someone rather being that someone.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:26 | 368483 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I am a cardolding member of a construction union.  I will say that it seems the majority of the political and fincial knowledge held by members comes from the quarterly magazines the locals send out.  The rest comes from Katie Couric.  Our pensions are "hands-off".  We have no control whatsoever over the money.  Workers get their statement, put sunglasses on to fight off the clear blue sky contained within, and plan their early retirements.

The entitlement attitude is worsening by the day.  We have less and less work, keep raising our costs, load up jobs, and can't figure out why no one wants to hire union.   The only winners are the leadership.  And they will win until the game is over.  They know it.  It is no different than those who are sucking money up in the market right now.  Get as much as you can, then take your toys and go home.  Meanwhile, the guy who broke his back to make you rich stands there with his lunchbucket going, "What the Fuck???"

MOST union guys are hard working, good people.  They've just trusted a leadership that "took care of them" for so long that they suffer from Stockholme Syndrome.

****DISCLAIMER - I am fully aware that not all unions are the same, and am commenting more on the "trade based" unions, rather than professional public unions.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:32 | 368490 qualia
qualia's picture

I'm not a fan of actual union leaders or workers.  But why would we use the government, and legislatures, to bar the right of citizens to bargain as a unit, rather than individually?  Seems awfully intrusive to me.  Somehow, a *corporation* or *university* is allowed to bargain as a unit, but a labor pool is not?  That strikes me as wholly irrational, and certainly not libertarian!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:06 | 368508 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I agree with you completely.  A labor pool is the one NON government way to put labor on a more equal footing with business.   But this doesn't change the fact that the mission of the unions has been tainted.  I AM in favor of letting capitalism sort it out.  As we price ourselves out of the game, our relevancy will continue to decline.  As business slowly begins to take advantage of the worker, the need to effectively organize for basic protections will increase.  We're in for a dark period until then however.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:05 | 368590 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

The problem isn't the principle of unions, it's that leadership is too easily coopted and corrupted just like weak governments.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:10 | 368669 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

+1.  And like a government who buys complacency with entitlements, union leadership does the same thing.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:53 | 368575 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

great point, I thank its a question of balance, and labor, "the many" should have power capable of balancing capital "the few"...many unions are not models of effective worker representation, but many corporate boards and exec/middle management are not effective representation of stock owners either. Banning unions and giving all the power to execs/management class will not lead us to economic utopia any more than letting unions run everything....balance, competition, transparency, democratic controls in corporate and union governance is needed...

What I don't get is why there aren't more employee-owned institutions. Workers would have say in insuring they get most of the profits and have decent, effective working conditions and workers would enforce everyone carrying their fair share but they would have checks on their grabbing for money and working less hard by the fact the company must remain competitive for them to get paid, share in profits.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:20 | 369677 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"What I don't get is why there aren't more employee-owned institutions"

voila!  ever read Kelso?

or hear of SEMCO?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 16:40 | 369009 JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

The problem is that public sector unions collude with politicians to extract the highest wages and benefits from the taxpayer and sell their union member votes to the politicians.  I have no problem with private sector unions but there is no such thing.  Private sector unions, unfortunately, do the same thing as public sector ones, so there's really no difference between public and private sector unions.  Both have political protection and use that protection to either:

     1)  Public sector - Extract the most money from the taxpayer and to hell with the future consequenses.

     2)  Private sector - Under the protection of government force, "negotiate" the highest wages and benefits possible, causing prices for the products or services provided by the employer to rise.  This distributes the cost among all consumers and is inherently unfair.  Of course, management at these companies is to blame as well, but the unions are the real bloodsuckers.


Why should we use government force to mandate that I, as a taxpayer, be forced to pay these people higher wages and benefits than they otherwise would be paid?  These people are supposed to be public servants.  They make, on average, way more in pay and benefits than any private sector employee could even dream of making.  So who's really the servant?  The taxpayer has been enslaved to the unions, that's what it has come down to.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:03 | 369611 blindman
blindman's picture


"If you spend much time around the REAL working class, there's nothing but contempt for unions,..."


 b.s. .. bull shit!


"they" would love to be protected from the tyranny of

the bullshit financial capital sector of their enslavement

by a union, or something?  but are afraid of being fired from their paycheck.

true.  i was fired myself, once, for speaking to an individual

attempting to unionize a sweat shop.  of course, this function

was sent to china, the entire point being moot now. ?

such is life, so what, etc.... stillllll  bull shit.

ps.  i was warned not to speak to said individuals by

fellow employees at said sweatshop but did not really

care and actually thought, at the time, that my conversations

after working hours were my own business.  wrong.  this is

reality in the productive, labor, sector.  not so in the financial

sector where you can screw anything and be paid as if you

are god himself with all the wondrous marvels of creation

at your fingertips.  or so i thought.   


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:15 | 368261 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

I am a current dues paying member of the CWA, Communications Workers of American.

Calling Unions lying, scum sucking, kill their kids for read meat, vile, POS's fails to convey the true depth of servitude they have with satan.

The idea of having a unified employee group to address real problems is a wonderful concept. No doubt in the past unions helped to resolve real issues between owners and workers. The Unions today in America do not do anything other than profit the Union,  and not the members. 

What we have today is parasites sucking the life out of production.

So f**k the CWA

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:35 | 368275 Janice
Janice's picture

I am not a State employee, but in Florida, we have a state workers union.  The elite of the union and their attorneys are in bed with the Florida politicians, and they sell the State of Florida employees down the river every year.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:06 | 368595 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

You see the situation clearly, and it is unsustainable.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:05 | 368298 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Yellow Dogs are a potential problem with unions, but that doesn't mean that a countervailing force to the exploitative impetus from management isn't necessary any more than bad cops imply that we shouldn't have a police force.

The downsides to unions are the same ones to which any hierarchical system is prone.

I've seen what the union did for my grandfather when he worked at Ford, what the carpenter's union did for my dad as an apprentice craftsman, and I've read enough Zinn to realize that the same problems encountered by the people working for Massey in WV today were being dealt with by exploited workers trading scrip at the company store throughout the 19th century.

I'm not a union member, but I don't pretend that everyone clocking a 9-5 is in the same position to play John Galt with the capitalists that I am.

As for comparisons with the're off by an order of magnitude...just look at the money each is able to put up in the farcical ceremonies we call elections.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:32 | 368318 Apostate
Apostate's picture

It's a complex issue, I'll grant you that.

I mean, I had a grandfather who worked for GE as an accountant, and he was treated quite well. I'm not sure I could attribute that to GE itself, or to the general economic, cultural, and political environment of the time. Plus, it was pretty damned early in the American ponzi scheme, and they had an extended period of relative peace.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:46 | 368325 Greenbacks
Greenbacks's picture

Well said. ANY hierarchical system indeed.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 07:19 | 368422 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

indeed agreed.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:32 | 368785 Kali
Kali's picture

I have a problem with bureaucracies period.  Whether they be gov, union, corp, social or non-profit.  The primary purpose of a bureaucracy is to perpetuate itself.  This is the problem. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 02:19 | 368337 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

 Public servant's - Again no they don't - they provide a 'service' - How in Gods name do you think things are Projected, planned and large infrastructure project get up. Who collects, who distributes the peoples money for the people. Yes they create nothing but without them you don't go anywhere. They provide the very Taxi in which you ride to your destination. Judas priest - don't knock some of the most intelligent people you have because they know they have to follow the orders they get from above. They are not elected but they plan 50 years in front with the things they are given.

I dare you to imagine life without the servants of the people. you would eat anarchy for breakfast and feast on your children at night. Grow up!  

Now to Unions - like it or not you people inherited the Westminster system of Government and Unions are the opposition to the government (re Business) - if you had no unions you would be working for free 7 days and get a bowl of rice and a thread bare blanket at night. Some of the great privileges you enjoy are due to union pressure. If you want to knock them be very aware you lose a voice completely. Np in fact support your union it may be the very voice you now need to square this thing away. (never been a member but as management would fear their removal because my ass would be grass.)  

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:40 | 368493 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You forgot the sarcasm tag.   I hope....

I understand your points, but the things you are advocating, are entirely too much of a good thing.  Right about now, maybe what we need is a double helping of anarchy for breakfast, so we can re-evaluate our NEEDS. 

Public servants work in the comfort of less accountablility, more redudancy, and an expected productivity level way less than that of their private sector counterparts.  ( I understand that I'm generalizing) 

Unions (I am a member) have shifted their focus from protecting the rights and welfare of the "Brotherhood", to getting absolutely as many people as possible on the books to pay more dues.  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The management of these unions are so far removed from the actual work performed, that the disconnect is overwhelming.

To compare unions of today to those of the early Twentieth Century, is like comparing Al Sharpton to Martin Luther King Jr.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:43 | 368495 mikeyv1970
mikeyv1970's picture


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:45 | 368717 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

yep.  Those damn unions and the damn people who work in them don't get the pleasure and tremendous job satisfaction I get working 70-80 hour work weeks making millions for employers with my 40 hour pay and the later firing for taking a weekend off or laid off every 3 years in my fantastic non-union work.  Fuckers.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:44 | 368808 Segestan
Segestan's picture

What you descibe is just exactly why the Unions( worker representation) got organized. Unregulated capitalism is just as deadly as unregulated socialism. This is why responsible, fair policy needs to be the foundation of government( representation).

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:31 | 368881 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

yes.  That is why my comment is pure sarcasm.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:24 | 368267 JOHNICON
JOHNICON's picture

Read this article:


It's not just union leadership, it's some of the membership as well.  People are liars and cheats, whether or not they're in a union, but when public sector employee unions rob you holding a government-issued gun to your head telling you to "go fuck yourself, your money is now mine forever," there's something very wrong.  Wrong with this country, in my opinion.  JHK, whose somewhat socialist views I may disagree with, said it best:  "We've become a nation of louts and thieves, tattooing flames on our necks and referring to each other as "Motherfucker."

Now, I have to go, American Idol is on and I have to go bury my head in the sand.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:55 | 368293 Apostate
Apostate's picture

JHK is a fun writer.

Economically misguided, prone to falling for various apocalypse theories, but a trenchant observer of humanity and social history. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 08:36 | 368454 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

On the topic of what went wrong, who's to blame, who are we going to fight, who's going to win...I'd like to interject with the question:  What are we fighting for/what are we fighting against?  It might be a stretch, but I think we should examine (and be conscious of) what we have done to America.  Please watch James Howard Kunstler's "The Tragedy of Suburbia"


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:10 | 368601 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

I despise Kunstler's snotty dismissiveness of those ordinary people who might not blend with him aesthetically. If he thinks he will retire to upstate NY unmolested during a time of stress he better learn to control his tongue because I might be in the neighborhood...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 13:09 | 368758 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Perhaps you missed the point.  Neighborhoods don't really exist.  They were replaced by sliced white bread...developments without life, things to do, places to see.  Perhaps you also enjoy Disney World?  I kinda hope you don't get out more.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:18 | 369167 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Oh, I get out plenty dear. Have driven coast to coast multiple times, northern route west, southern route return. That is why I know more about the people that JHK regularly denigrates, and it is likely you who needs to get out more. FYI, I have been to Disney World once, almost 35 years ago when I was graduating boot camp. I like my 120 year old New England neighborhood much better. Sometimes you fanboys (and girls) fall in love with a concept and don't examine it critically enough, as we are doing here with Celente.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:41 | 368282 Ras Bongo
Ras Bongo's picture

No wonder they want to get rid of Iran.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:48 | 368284 Jim Billy Bob J...
Jim Billy Bob James IV's picture

Did you catch Celente's comment about the U.S. or Israel's attack on the Iranian nuclear program being the beginning of World War III?  I don't know which is more unstable in this area, the U.S. or Israel.  I thought it was a forgone conclusion that an attack was imminent.  I agree completely with Celente, he is a trends forecaster and it seems that the momentum of our culture is both linear and predictable.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 00:57 | 368294 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I strongly believe that the Iranian "nuclear threat" is a combination of ruling class delusion and a cynical ploy to keep the population afraid and paying for crappy weapons projects.

If Israel really hates Iran that much, they should just carpet bomb the place with neutron bombs.

I mean, really, what the fuck? If you're going to be mass-murdering assholes, you might as well do the job with the right tools. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:53 | 368330 UGrev
UGrev's picture

They couldn't do that.. they know that if they sprayed the place with gamma radiation, it would only create a country of giant, green muslims that are a real bitch to kill. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 17:01 | 369031 No More Bubbles
No More Bubbles's picture

I love Max, but why can't he pronounce the word NUCLEAR properly?  It like fingernails on a chalboard when I hear someone make it sound like "new-cue-ler".   Very disappointing Mr. Keiser!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:08 | 368302 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

It is time folks discovered what social libertarianism really is.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:32 | 368540 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yes, but doing so requires us to trust our fellow man and release our fear.  Hence the need for the TV fear pump.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:12 | 368605 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

You guys keep me optimistic... thx

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:01 | 368649 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Pleasure.  It won't take much to alter the trajectory of the current shit soup sandwich to more sustainable outcomes.

SWR, besides what really matters at the moment is what copy the bubble headed bleach blonde reads at five since chances are good that by eleven s/he will be back to their natural color regardless.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:52 | 368732 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

What's wrong with our corporatist state masquerading as free market capitalism?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:14 | 368308 Brutlstrudl
Brutlstrudl's picture

Before Celente, there was Lord Acton

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:21 | 368313 Rogue Economist
Rogue Economist's picture

The trick here is to stay out of the way of the 90% Population Reduction needed to make room for further Growth in the Economy.  Assuming of course the phytoplankton in the oceans of the world isn't all poisoned and we don't ALL die from mass suffocation from lack of Oxygen.

Put it this way.  Anything LESS than a Permian Extinction Event is a GOOD outcome right now.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:34 | 368319 Apostate
Apostate's picture

You go first, partner.

Not sure how anyone could root for "population reduction" without offering to take the first step.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 04:19 | 368372 Rogue Economist
Rogue Economist's picture

Who is "rooting" here? I am just making an observation about REALITY. Does the fact I see Fed support of a bankrupt market make me a ROOTER for the failure of the Fed?  It just IS.

I should VOLUNTEER to be the first to go because I think we have an unsustainable paradigm going down here? WTF?  I just am trying to stay out of the way of the fucking freight train coming in my direction! YOU can go first!  I'll hide out here on the Last Great Frontier so long as I can, thank you very much!  Notify the media when YOU get as far away from this shit as I am! I got a freezer full of smoked salmon and mooseburgers, what is YOUR hedge?

edit to note: On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to Zero.  I'm operating on a shorter timeline.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 09:29 | 368487 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I'm glad you're prepared for the worst.

But I think a 90% die-off is a bit of an extreme position to take. You're underestimating just how much most people enjoy being alive. People do whatever it takes to survive.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:01 | 368502 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

We have however, created a class of people so spolied, so lazy, that their desire to live may just be trumped by their lack of ability to do so.  I'm not just talking about the Welfare class, but many of the middle class live a lifstyle supported by non productive commerce, and rely on the profits of said undertaking to purchase their every basic need.  When their ability to purchase their subsistence declines, so does their probability of survival.  This is the reason so many ridicule "Gold Bugs".  A man with a farm who only has enough to support his own family cares not a whit for your gold.  Those with gold and silver will fare better than those without, but only at aquiring surplus tangibles.

There are some hard times a-comin.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:39 | 368546 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

A man with a farm who only has enough to support his own family cares not a whit for your gold.

This is such a short-sighted, narrow and incorrect view, and I really can't imagine any circumstances under which it would be applicable; maybe you'd like to elaborate?  A man with a farm who only has enough to support his family is one bad storm away from starving, and is therefore going to starve.  There will always be commerce, which means there will always be a need for money, which means gold will always have value.  You have read too many apocalyptic books.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:18 | 368610 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

And this is where I believe that silver has an important role. Especially if the G/S ratio remains so skewed.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:47 | 368700 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

No, I agree with you.  I wholeheardtedly agree that commerce will always exist.  But don't you own SOMETHING that isn't for sale?  Haven't you tried to buy SOMETHING from someone who won't part with it at ANY price?  Do you think that scenario won't increase in times of depression?  What I seemed to have not expressed very well is that there are many who think that if they have money (whatever its form may be), they will be fine.  The deeper the depression, (apocalyptic possibly, but probably not) buying power becomes decreased as the availability of goods declines.  I am very much aware that that farmer may be one bad storm away from starving.  Many may end up in that boat.  And if food is that scarce, you ain't a sellin it til your own stomach's full. 

I think that there will always be a balance.  Those who feel as I seemed to come off... (that only tangibles already aquired) ARE short sighted and incorrect.  And there are many out there.  On the other side of the coin, a wealthy man in NYC with 100 ounces of gold may have a harder time spending it than he envisions. 

It isn't too hard to see a plausible scenario where your gold or silver coin won't buy dinner.  If our supply chain becomes erratic, and food becomes difficult to purchase, I don't want your Morgan dollar for my loaf of bread that my child needs.  Today.  Maybe tomorrow will be a different story.  But no promises.

When fiat breaks down, there is BOUND to be a time of disruption in our system.  Of course there will be commerce.  I'm not with the "you can't eat gold" crowd in its entirety, and neither am I with the "gold will solve the problem" crowd in it's entirety.  It's more complicated than that, and too often it's painted in black or white.  As I apparently broad brushed it earlier.

If you disagree with that, so be it, and good luck to you.  I will continue to buy gold and silver, but right now I have to go pull weeds in the garden, and get the kids busy on the woodpile.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:12 | 368851 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I just finished a salad from my garden.  Pulled it, washed it, and ate it.  I got ladybugs all over my lettuce and beans, and there's nary a damned aphid to be found.

A little bit of olive oil and feta...OMFG.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:40 | 368890 KTV Escort
KTV Escort's picture

I just read up on the benefit of ladybugs. Did you have to buy yours or did they show up on their own? Apparently they are attracted to mustard, geraniums, coreopsis and cosmos. Thinking of adding some of those to my garden.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:21 | 368935 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

They showed up all on their own.  Bless their little hearts!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:48 | 368897 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Same, except it is spinach salad here with fresh strawberries on the side... while watching the ladybugs doing their thing.  Off the hook!

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:41 | 368950 Hulk
Hulk's picture

How do the ladybugs taste? Ate a bee once in some lettuce I grew, tasted like flowers smell....

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 15:45 | 368955 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

yer supposed to wash it first

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 16:08 | 368978 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I did. It was a clinger for sure...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 19:07 | 369157 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Not as good as roasted crickets...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 20:35 | 369229 Hulk
Hulk's picture

We need more bugs in our diet. Wonder what termites taste like? 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 22:41 | 369384 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hell Miles, you truly will be fine anywhere you are. To be admired.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:15 | 368517 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

I agree with you that rooting and observing are different things.  I do think however, that a die off isn't as necessary as scaling back in standard of living.  The rub is, that essentially (IMHO) means a die off of some sort. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 02:27 | 368341 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Again - Judas priest - your so very correct, too many people consuming way more than the rest.
I vote The USA release all 1500 war heads aloft and have the GPS set for home. Fuck me - further growth????

Thats what got us in this frigging mess in the first place - live simply or reap the whirlwind.

Money money money -  Only when the last tree has been cut down; Only when the last river has been poisoned; Only when the last fish has been caught; Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten. 

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:20 | 368480 Winisk
Winisk's picture

In remote Native communities where the economy is somewhat closed it's easier to see the consequences of greed and growth.  If a hunter takes more moose than he and his family can eat, he isn't considered successful.  He's greedy. He's taking food away from another family.  This is usually dealt with by the community by social condemnation.  Many of these communities are experiencing rapid population growth which is putting a fair amount of pressure on the resources. What is happening is a social decay where there is feuding, theft, and a culture of dependence on government handouts. We can't grow more caribou and trout. Competition for them is fierce.  In fact their reliance on skidoos and motor boats is becoming a problem with the price of gas going through the roof as people can no longer afford to trap/hunt/fish, thus the culture of dependance and the lack of pride and esteem creating an array of other societal problems to reckon with.  It's sad.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 10:35 | 368544 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Living this kind of self limiting lifes did not help them. One of the major causes of their demises during the colonization of the north american continent. What in business with a greedy tradepartner, the only way to survive is to grow as greedy as him or he will look for a more suitable partner.

Trade is the key.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 14:11 | 368849 Winisk
Winisk's picture

The Hudson Bay Company had an active trade relationship with the Natives.  That was the foundation of Canada and it served them well, lifting the standard of living substantially. The fur market has become a relic of it's past glory and their challenge has been to adapt to the modern reality which has not been terribly successful.  The abusive residential school system that was imposed on them didn't help.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 01:49 | 368327 Boop
Boop's picture

Bill Maher Interviews Nouriel Roubini 'Dr. Doom'

The good Dr. recommends SPAM (rather than gold) as an inflation hedge...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 04:54 | 368382 dumpster
dumpster's picture

stack the spam cans .. throw away the spam  .

get gold .. silver,, hire a cook ,rent a share of the neighbors farm , eat eggs and hashbrowns

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 11:20 | 368614 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

I agree with Roubini - SPAM cans are an excellent place to stash your bullion.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 12:59 | 368746 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

of course he does.  He surely has $375k worth of Spam in his yard.  All economists play an important part of the propaganda stage the money power sets (plausible deniability purposes of course)

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