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Max Keiser's Plan To Destroy JP Morgan Goes Mainstream, After The Guardian Posts His "Silver Squeeze" Thoughts
As Zero Hedge readers know, the reason why the US mint sold a record amount of silver American Eagle coins in November is unlikely a coincidence, and very possibly an indication that the recently disclosed plan as espoused by the MKs (Mike Krieger and Max Keiser) to destroy JP Morgan is working: to wit, if every person buys an ounce of silver, JP Morgan and its massive synthetic silver short position, will have no choice by the cover, face unprecedented margin calls, and possible lead to an end for the New York Fed's favorite bank. Today, Keiser goes mainstream, detailing his thoughts in The Guardian, which courtesy of its massive circulation is sure to reach far more readers to whom this idea is new. To keep a track of how well this plan is working, we suggest readers check in with the US mint, which frequently updates the amount of silver American Eagles sold on its website (link). The full Guardian article is below.
Want JP Morgan to crash? Buy silver, published in The Guardian
The campaign to buy silver and force JP Morgan into bankruptcy could work, because of the liabilities accrued by its short-selling
For decades, the world's banking system has been on a fiat currency
standard that has led to banks that are "too big to fail". They have
overreached their remit of providing loans and have leeched into the
political system, using our money to change the political agenda in ways
that boost bank management's compensation over the interests of their
depositors.
Over the past 11 years, the Gata (Gold Anti-Trust Action) committee has worked to reveal
the silver/gold price suppression scheme; thanks to whistleblower
Andrew Maguire in London, an investigation has been opened. As part of
the ongoing exposé, it has now become clear
that JP Morgan is sitting on what is estimated to be 3.3bn ounce
"short" position in silver (which they have sold short, meaning they
don't own it to begin with) in an attempt to keep the price artificially
low in order to keep the relative appeal of the dollar and other fiat currencies high. The potential liability for JP Morgan has been an open secret for a few years.
On my show, Keiser Report, I recently invited Michael Krieger, a regular contributor of Zero Hedge
(the WikiLeaks of finance). We posited that if 5% of the world's
population each bought a one-ounce coin of silver, JP Morgan would be
forced to cover their shorts – an estimated $1.5tn liability – against
their market capital of $150bn, and the company would therefore go
bankrupt. A few days later, I suggested on the Alex Jones show that he
launch a "Google bomb" with the key phrase "crash jp morgan buy silver".
Within a couple of hours, it went viral and hundreds of videos have been made to support the campaign.
Right now, silver eagle sales for the month of November hit an all-time record high and the availability of silver
on a wholesale level is drying up. The most important indicator is the
price itself – holding just under a 30-year high. With each uptick JP
Morgan gets closer to going bust or requiring a bailout.
Here's
how the campaign works: wealth tied to a fiat currency is easily
overwhelmed by wealth tied to silver and gold. And the world is waking
up to the fact that they have the ability, without government assistance
or other interference, to create a new precious metals-based backed
currency system by simply converting their fiat paper into real money.
This
campaign has 100% chance of working; it falls into the category of a
self-fulfilling prophecy. As more individuals buy silver and gold, all
attempts to replenish the system with more paper money will only cause
the purchasing power of the silver and gold to increase – thus prompting
more people to buy more. Any attempts to bail out JP Morgan would have
the same effect. If the US Fed was to flood the system with bailout
money for JP Morgan to cover their silver short position (as they did after the collapse of Long-Term Capital Management),
more inflation will ensue and the price of silver and gold will rise
more, triggering more purchases. A virtuous circle is born.
If
anyone is interested in helping to crash JP Morgan, buy silver. In the
end, it's about transferring wealth back to the people from where it
came.
»
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the longuer it takes, the more I buy.
Maybe we could get WikiLeak into the play as well. Tell Assange to leak out how much gold (and/or tungsten) is there in Fort Knox in his next release.
Not sure I like the comparison... do we really want Interpol to issue an international red notice on Tyler?
Why would they? Does Marla have a couple of broken condoms on hand?
don't forget to pledge your deliveries at http://standfordelivery.com
127,513 pledged troy oz for delivery.. ok, I'm one of the "little people" ..so that seems like a tremendous amount of silver; and there are 29 days to go.. rock on vigilante's!
The higher these fraudulent markets get pumped with my tax money, the more silver and gold I will buy. I thought for sure my gold/silver buying days were over but I guess not. I'll take silver to the moon if need be.
I'll make my pledge and stick to it.
Its cute when plebeians think they can do something.
why arent hedge funds attacking short JPM and other banks with net derivatives books exposure?
they are under orders not to apparently
Orders involving threats that they will be short-squeezed to death by the infinitely deep pockets of Brian Sack (et al.), would be my guess.
If they can make Uncle Warren turn loose of his silver play, they can easily handle a few hedge funds. They can either "Play ball!" or find themselves targeted for destruction.
And there's always the threat of regulatory witch hunts.
Hard to do that when they're outside your jurisdiction.
I think it's because HF's have a vested interest in keeping people in paper. Once you make the decision to hold real money, you don't need a parasite sucking 2 and 20 anymore, do you? In other words: survival.
But if you see the ship is going down, it makes sense to be the first rat off, yes?
Not if you're fattening yourself on grain deep in the hold.
Because if JPM goes under, most Hedge Funds will as well. It will remake the entire financial industry, as it's more intertwined than the fibers on your #550 paracord.
Have you heard of the mafia. Or the Police. They just don't do that if they want to "stick around".
They might be. I'm sure you've noticed how the price of silver is jumping upwards recently.
SD,
You're so right! The nieces and nephews will be getting silver Eagles fo Xmas this year, but I've still got a retail trading account I've completely stopped using open.
So if JP survives this round and pushes prices down again, I'll gladly turn more of my monopoly money into cold, hard cash.
Your move, JP.
The mint just announce the America the Beautiful 5 oz coins (5 different) originally to be minted 100k each, will be available to the same distro system as the ASEs 6 Dec with a premium of $9.75 each. Only available on secondary market and mintage numbers now 27 k to 33k each. OOps. ran out of silver?
Be aware though that the Guardian is the house magazine for socialists and those who honestly believe that "Other people's money" is an infinite resource.
Have a look at the readers' comments below the article. Hilarious. Many along the lines of 'But if we close down JPM won't the poor workers lose their jobs" and "Why would I want Silver? I can't eat it."
New comment:
I've been buying Morgan dollars to add insult to hopefully lethal injury.
Reminds me of the funny comment a while ago, "Maxed out my Chase credit card on buying silver coins to chase Morgan out of silver business."
a good laugh out of the comments. do i smell a SAVE JP Morgan campaign in the works? :D those stupid turdballs...
That was a time delay joke for me. I read it and laughed 2 mintues later. I'm finding my intellect (and sarcasm) may not be up to par for this website. Morgan, got it.
Dont worry about it... I had to read your comment to get the joke. Not enough coffee yet.
Everybody please go to the Grauniad (sic) website, create a login, and then counter the progressives' moronic objections. I can no longer do so - my fingers have been worn down to stubs.
Quintus - if you were Blythe wouldnt you do some damage control...have a PR firm hire a couple of people to write some comments...the first comment there is too clever to just be off the mill and so on...
-- a conspiratorial mind
So you are saying don't listen to the Guardian because they are socialists? Perhaps you suggest we listen to CNBC because they are capitalists?
I would like to see JPM go under.
They are a bunch of underhanded, dirty bastards over there and deserve pay back.
We cannot take JPM down because the bank has FED backing--it is the handmaiden of the Federal Reserve. However, we can make JPM even more insolvent than they already are. We need to get rid of mark-to-fantasy accounting and force JPM to recognize their depraved insolvency officially on their books. Thank CONgress for the suspension of mark-to-market accounting at the TBTFs.... :(
However, Max's campaign has merit because: 1) We can make JPM even more insolvent, and 2) We can preserve our purchasing power by buying silver bullion. Both goals make sense.
Correct. While you can't bankrupt an already insolvent Bank, you can force the Fed to "print" up another Trillion. That's one less bullet in Bernake's arsenal. Even Bernake is subservient to the Bond Markets, and not the other way around.
The goal here is to cost JPM a lot of money.
And the sooner this corruption collapses, the sooner we'll be able to rebuild.
Are they now settling silver contracts for cash at COMEX?
http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/
I've heard they settle them in SLV. Pretty much the same thing.
Looks like they bought a LOT of stand for delivery contracts off with something. (And it wasn't silver based on delivery notices)
Madmax.
An anecdote that might be interesting.
I've been pounding away at all my clients to please, please, pretty please purchase some physical Gold and Silver for at least the last 5 years. Over the past 3 weeks, 5 clients have come in requesting distributions to do precisely that. And we're talking 5 to 10% of assets, not a few thousand dollars.
People are beginning to understand that the insanity isn't going away anytime soon and in fact might get worse. When I used phrases such as "America has become the new USSR" a few years ago, it would have raised objections among my clients. No longer. And my clients are overall very conservative.
yup game over....there was another guy talking about his father, a mutual fund manager asking to invest 20% of his assets on PM...they could fight/beat the poor gold/silver bugs but not the masses ...there is no actual PM to do that...the only question is: is it now or few months from now?
I have some physical PM but am not sure what percentage of current assets need to convert. Any guidance?
Nothing specific. But consider this.
You aren't buying Silver or Gold as an investment. Your doing so to convert some of your rapidly devaluing Federal Reserve Notes into an alternative currency. It helps to see PM's like you would heating oil in the northeast. If you have a 5,000 gallon tank in the back yard and you recognize that the dollar is being slowly destroyed along with all other paper currencies, would you consider filling the tank to the brim now and then keeping it topped off as you use it?
Thus today you have converted some of your FRN's to a commodity that will always retain some value when it's possible the value of the paper currency might drop by 50% or more. Since you continue to top it off, most of the oil is not there for present consumption but simply as an alternative store of value for the future.
This idea works with anything "real" such as land, office buildings or homes/apartments. If you knew without a doubt that your dollars would be worth 50% less in 5 years, what percentage would you convert today? Since you don't know this for certain, how much should you convert as a hedge?
The key is to stop looking at it as an investment and start looking it as an alternative store of value.
+1. Perfect analogy, CD.
Becareful Tyler! No more free speech for you!
Don't go to England.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101202/ap_on_bi_ge/wikileaks
Sexual smears, the last bastion of the utterly desparate and despicable.
Roman Polanski, anyone?
Roman pled guilty, fled prior to sentencing.
And Mr. Keiser might want to watch his back also, else he find himself inadvertently suicided.
Let's get something started. I'm sending this piece to everyone in my address book.
Do we wanna post the Keiser silver bomb shit every time when the silver price is up? How about some hedge funds asset allocation insides?
Get it from the source .. buy direct from the miners. Stave those parasites.
Seriously, how? (other than buying stock)....or did i miss the sarcasm yet again.
Unless you've a few million to throw at "the source", whichever mine it may be, I seriously doubt they'd consider a sale.
here's how: http://www.store.firstmajestic.com/products.aspx?cat=4
The prices are the same as any place else. Silver Eagles can be bought for the price of their silver rounds.
And they sell colloidal silver as well.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Of course it is possible. Silver is also just 'normal' industrial product, every copper manufacturer sells also silver, for example as 1000 OZ bars, so 30000 FRNs would be enough.
Mikey and Maxey sitting in a tree, first come success
then comes down JPMorgan Chase.
i am so excited, i want to k I s s everyone†
based on that avatar, i'll pass on the kiss...
Every american buying an ounce of silver to take down JPMorgan. Why has ZeroHedge not forcefully endorsed this idea? Why has nobody from this site communicated with Max Keiser to support his campaign? Why have the many members of this site not been engaged in supporting this effort?
To quote Tyler Durden (the movie character):
I see all this potential, and I see it squandered.
We believe our views on the matter have been telegraphed sufficiently well over the past 2 years for those who pay attention.
....and paying attention does not actually cost anything either.
and not paying attention, isn't quite free either
"Buy on the dips you fucking idiot"
Sometimes it takes a Hammer !!
Frankly I consider that expanation pretty weak. It does not address why readers have not been engaged in this matter. Why is it so easy for Max Keiser to advocate for these things and not a word from you? We all know you have negative opinions about the large financial institutions and would like to see the ponzi ended.
But nowhere in ZeroHedge have you ever advocated that readers buy some silver expressly to udermine JPMorgan. Sure you've said that silver is better than fiat money. Sure you've pointed out several times JPMorgan's short position. But those are hardly what I was talking about.
Wow... Okay.. I'll say it..
You can lead a horse to water.. but...
You can't make him drink. However, you can salt his oats.
Because it won't work. Fed and government get involved and JPMorgan is still standing. Then short term guys like you get frustrated and sell your silver cursing Keiser as to how stupid he is. This takes patience.
< Because it won't work. >
Correct, it won't work. But it can have an impact. It can get people involved. There is a vast readership here who have been itching to do SOMETHING. It won't get JPMorgan to fold, but there are clear broad benefits to people taking a small extra step beyond reading.
I am not thinking short term here. I am thinking first steps, and this is a very simple thing that can see people participating in something bigger than themselves, as opposed to some who like to maintain that it is enough to not push people to do anything more than sit quietly and read the screen.
Steak, please, you're gettin all excited but Max Keiser is simply jumping on a freight train that is currently rolling quite slowly down the tracks. Jpmorgan and others jump on and off and run along side it with paper tickets and get others to jump off and on trading paper for paper. This train is speeding up and at some point, they won't be able to do that anymore. If this is that point then Max is just lucky. Others have been saying this since 1971 more since 2000 Tyler for 2 years.
Your points are well taken and I do agree with what you say. The only additional point I'd like to make is that this is not about Max getting lucky and getting credit for taking down JPMorgan. This is about people being engaged in taking even token actions against the ponzi. A defining charactaristic of economic downturns is a decrease in civic participation, and that is what I am exhorting against.
I'm with ya. I just don't want "weak hands" to get frustrated. This is the most manipulated market in the world. People need to realize they are not just fighting Morgan, they are fighting (fiat) government decree. Government decree does not go down easily or quickly.
Certainly, if we work together, we are much stronger than the Hunt Brothers were. That said, a temporary spike in price followed by a continuation of the Ponzi is not the final destination of the freight train.
Thank you for contributing to the conversation. You've brought some hard-nosed realism to the discussion and it is much appreciated.
Besides, Steak, there are enough anti-PM trolls here as it is. A campaign to "ruin a bank" would just draw more of them. If folks can't read between the lines then they should not be involved in markets. I've been buying PMs since 1998 when it was cheap. I thought for sure that I was crazy at every 10% increase -- but I kept buying, based on ancillary information, not some tin-foil hat idea to crash a bank.
<<I thought for sure that I was crazy at every 10% increase>>
Me too! But questioning your sanity is a sure sign that you are sane.
It's going to fall apart eventually. Mk is just speeding up the process. He's prepared for teh outcome. Some of us younger folk would like another couple years to prepare. I think it's impossible to say whether having a quick banking/dollar system collapse is better than a slow one.
I have my silver, but would like some more time to get my gun permit, solar panels, and such
Gun PERMIT ??? WTF?
Look the crime in Argentina after their economic collapse, or the former Soviet Block countries. Also read up on peak oil. Even the heavily liberal peak oil expert James Kunstler has his gun permit. I can't afford a gated community like Max Keiser will be living in.
Gun proficiency will become an increasingly important skill, with looting, downsized PD departmends, and maybe even a draft.
referring to the PERMIT. AKA the "come and get it" notice
Smart folks don't worry about that. If you don't like your State's gun laws move to one where they are more lenient. This is one reason I won't be leaving the U. S. I know the gun laws here and there is a likelihood that any other place would not allow owning them under any circumstances.
I think the point was that you're asking criminals for permission to possess a gun. These criminals then store this info in a database, until such a future time as they decide to disarm you.
Ever wonder how Hitler knew how to disarm the Jews? IBM
I'm not in finance, but I come here, amongst a few other sites and even I get the message loud-and-clear. Not sure what you're not getting?
An example of the mentality out there is asking my neighbor about "The Federal Reserve", the reply I got was: "What's that?"
I'll buy silver, and gold if finances allow. If things work out for our country down the road, great, I'll lose a few bucks, but the coins will still have some value. My food storage? I bought at "years ago" prices, so again, I'm still ahead.
I am lamenting the mentality of "here is the message, do with it what you will". It reminds me too viscerally of starry-eyed policy analysts in DC pumping out research papers that even if read will be dutifully put aside. They think they are changing the world by their writings but in reality without any grounding in action in the real world, they're just pumping out copy.
I think this is the advantage of this blog, here you're forced to think or you'll soon get bored and leave.
Though there are some people of the latter type holding ground stubbornly...
Anyhow, one of the very few sites that expects their readers to think!
Keep it up, Tyler
One of the primary, unstated, purposes of zerohedge is to uproot the traditional concept of media. Essentially, it is very similar to the concept of wikileaks albeit with far more discipline in what is published. We can only surmise the nuggets that pass through ZH's information gateways, but I'm willing to bet it is substantial and, further, substantially censored. Regardless, hearing information directly from sources, i.e. not through mouth piece puppets in pre-arranged and written interviews, completely challenges the present concept of media. Likewise, the ability to post massive amounts of data, graphs, and information nearly instantaneously (clearly if not on sensitive topics and/or in full) upon receipt is a significant core competancy, especially with the trading crowd.
ZH is presently gaining credibility with its core audience as well as branching out into more traditional areas of the media. The credibility being gained at this juncture, goodwill if you will, is going to be invaluable down the road, when traditional media sources, that were sock puppets of the elite, will have lost all credibility and, thus, viewership. You see them trying to have a few segments every now and again where they really care about discussing some of the major issues, but by and large, they can drown these out and they're solely being used as a contingency and escape plan. It will be insufficient.
Now, to the question at hand, given ZH's positioning, business model, and business potential, everyone involved must remain anonymous. The information coming through the floodgates could very well threaten the lives of any involved. As a result, you have assumed names and identities and little, if any, is spoken as to virtually anything about the business. One of the ways to remain outside the clutches of the authorities as well as to protect themselves in the event the "wrong" (right) information comes through the wire, is to stay out of subjectivity or other value statements in regard to plans to cripple or overthrow the government (which is what the buy silver/end jp morgan meme is really all about) and to pass on the information, if necessary, to other sources for dissemination. To this end, the business model is "hands-off" and seeks to avoid taking a position.
Now, if you consider this cowardly or whatever, I think that may be a fair assesment... but, I also doubt that many of us would feel comfortable being hunted by every intelligence agency in the world and then have false charges thrown in to boot. You can play backseat driver if you want, but it's not your neck on the line. In short, the business has not made enough money for its principal actors to take the risk of dissemination or to go out on a limb on a crusade to crush jpmorgan. Further, at this stage in the business' development, I'm not sure these types of crusades would lend themselves to obtaining a broader audience (too rebellious/desperate/alienating). Clearly, the hope is to not fall prey to being "just another blog" and to grow this into something bigger... and, with the goodwill/credibility generated during the mainstream media's propaganda campaign, I think the sky is the limit. The business model works for all types of information, not just financial.
In short steak, risk vs. reward.
Forgive me for not addressing your specific points in this response, I've rather thoroughlly laid out my views throughout this thread and no need to repeat them here. I just wanted to say thank you for the very thoughtful contribution to the discussion.
I didn't really see these issues presented in this fashion elsewhere... it all boils down to a simple business decision (wikileaksesque authenticity issues aside, e.g. the man behind the mystery). I wish it were more romantic, but we're dealing with intelligent actors here. From a business perspective, it's just not the right time yet to take that approach, imo, if ever.
I also agree that it is perfectly reasonable to question why there has not been express approval for such a plan. Implied responses are the playground of the shrewd... and, generally speaking, meaningless. If this means cowardice, then I think that's a fair accusation. I'm a coward too. (most all of us are, potentially even if expressly advocating the subject course of action).
I think the commenters do a good enough job of distilling what should be done with the information.
The articles portray a neutral tone, which makes them more palatable to people who are new to these concepts. If Tyler started acting like Alex Jones, then I wouldn't be able to send anyone except far rights or libertarians here, whereas now, I suggest to EVERYONE who wants to understand what is going on that they come here and read for a few weeks until they understand what is being said, and what is happening in the world.
I think that bringing up Alex Jones in the context of this conversation is akin to bringing up Hitler in a conversation about morality. It is an extreme which myself and clearly ZH would avoid at all costs. I think it is extremely reductionist of you, and frankly dismissive of thoughtful people's ability to implement best practices, to think that if the door was opened that things would immediately devolve to that level.
How much hand holding would make you happy?
How explicit does the message have to be?
..
Steak, I'm not sure what your agenda is here, but I do note that you have a history of distraction from the main points, and not contributing anything insightful to the topic at hand.
My response to Cognative Dissonance below addresses my intentions, please check that out :) And thank you for the feedback on my overall postings. What I've heard back from readers is largely postive and I've continued the postings keeping that in mind. But I know there are folks who do see it as a distraction and I don't dismiss that out of hand, so again thank you for sharing.
You're quite welcome. I'm quite happy to call people's attention to how you operate.
Zerohedge is not an investment advisor firm. You want to give the PTB a reason to be pounding on TD's door(s)?
Good question.
Steak?
I was certainly not suggesting that this site start dispensing explicit investment advice, rather my focus was using this clearly activist stance from Max Keiser as a way to frame the discussion about engaging the readership of ZH beyond submitting articles and information (which i recognize is critical for the site, i'm just looking beyond that).
I'll say.
And one more thing Steak, PHYSICAL. Don't settle for SLV. Breaking these guys will take a LONG time, maybe years. Don't get excited by Keiser, people close to this situation have been saying this for 10 years now. The snowball is just beginning to roll.
steaky disclaimer: we both know what is true.
but i communicated with maxey, i got my daughter to buy silver coins.
told her that was the american thing to do.
i am going to give all my relatives a silver coin for christmas. even at the beauty parlor when i was getting my hair shampooed in cold water, i was yelling out to all who could hear,
buy silver coins for all your loved ones for stupid christmas, bItchEz†
Hi Steak... You must have missed a few posts, as far as I can tell, TD has done just that. The fraud/"unfair market practices" of JPM and the topic of precious metals is a rather regular theme here -- it's just that the sheer volume of posts ZH is putting out may be drowning them a bit of late. But maybe including a permanent link somewhere on the front page isn't a bad idea?
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/max-keiser-buy-silver-coin-destroy-jp-m...
I do not dispute that this has been presented on the site before. But it is a reposting of Max Keiser's idea with no word from Tyler as to whether it is something he would like ZH readers to do. He only expresses detached interest:
"It will be interesting to see how far this meme carries."
My overarching point here is summed up in the (movie) Tyler Durden's line that I see wasted potential here. Buying an ounce of silver is not cost prohibitive, it leaves someone with something worthwhile, and it can be done by a very large number of people. If there was ever a concrete action (project mayhem, anyone?) this site could and should fully endorse this is yet. Yet on the matter there is only silence.
This has been Tyler's style from the beginning. I too have been frustrated by this stance. But it is what it is. ZH is Tyler's playground and he can do with it as he sees fit. I often don't agree, but he seems to be the same regardless of the topic. Tyler express outrage on many different facets of the Ponzi, but this blog is not a "stir the souls of the readers into action" web site for whatever reason.
Not defending, just explaining what I've observed and the reasons for it that I have teased out. I may be way off base on this. Until Tyler speaks in his own voice in an editorial, we won't know why. To be fair, Tyler has been edging further out on the limb over the past year. His voice has become much more strident.
I see what you see as well. There are lines that Tyler does not want to cross, and I absolutely respect that. But I strongly feel the question of whether there should be reader calls to action is one that should be discussed amongst the staff and amongst the readership. My goal in all this posting has been to move that conversation forward.
And for that I thank you. Since Tyler encourages an open forum by (for the most part) not moderating it, any discussion is open season as long as it can be linked (however tenuously) to the subject of the article. And contrary to public myth, one voice can often move the mountain further than a thousand.
I think part of Tyler's message is:
"Hey, I'm not your fucking leader. Hows about you think for yourself?"
I can respect that.
I agree. But I think it goes even deeper. See my comment below.
Do you think Tyler is on the other side of the trade .... ?
you wish
Balding_Snails, I often wonder how you manage to type while simultaneously eating your own boogers.
That Smailes fella is just not a clear thinker. It's a real head-scratcher.
Actually, buying one ounce is pretty cost porhibitive. Look at what some of these sites that everyone says are so cheap are charging for handling costs. Yeah, spend $35 on an Eagle, plus a $25 shipping and handing fee. Better to buy in a little more bulk, problem then is that you're getting into real money that people simply don't have. Sure, 2 years ago I picked up a few coins, but they've doubled and I can't just throw $500 around like it's nothing now. I know every hedge fund manager here can throw "only" $25K every month into PMs, but what do you suggest for people making $50K per YEAR? Curl up in the fetal position and wait for the FIRE industry's sins to consume them?
>> Yeah, spend $35 on an Eagle, plus a $25 shipping and handing fee.
You're telling us you cant use google/bing/some-damn-search-engine and find a local silver dealer?
Sure there's sales tax for small purchases but nothing like the 100% premium you are elaborating on for single ounce purchases.
I don't know, I see alot of people posting links to their favorite websites, almost universally more expensive than any website I've ever ordered from.
Seriously though, a local dealer, that's kind of like when people tell me the US is still one of the top 3 manufacturers. I can't find hardly anything made here and I can't find any local machine/chip shops to contract for projects, it's a total joke. Yeah, I'm going to go on Google (land of a million links to one out of date catalog), search out some hole in the wall that may or may not still exist, and buy some marked up "collector" coins with the roll of $100 bills I carry around every day. Been there and done that with the gun shop stampede, not really in the mood for more. Maybe I'm just not cut out for the black market way of life.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm with you guys on having some PMs, it's just that what's coming from some levels doesn't work for everyone.
The current going price on ebay is $31.90, not unreasonable at all for $29 silver.
http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_silver_coins.aspx?co_id=0
If you want to find someone advocating Keiser's plan with inventory for sale, look no further than Jason Hommel, who has been taking delivery from the Crimex and minting the 1000 oz. bars into smaller bars and rounds.
http://silverstockreport.com/2010/crash-jp-morgan-buy-silver.html
For smaller orders, his mom has her own store.
https://www.momssilvershop.com/store/
disclaimer: I've never dealt with Jason, but but have been reading him for a few years.
There shouldn't be any tax at all on PM purchases, especially not on cash purchases.
I buy from a local dealer. Current Kitco + 5% premium + sales tax. NOT cost prohibitive, you're just shopping in the wrong place.
So don't buy that one ounce online. Support your local coin and PM dealer.
Sure he's not going to get rich on your transaction, but you avoid all the S&H costs of an online transaction and you help your local economy, at least a little bit.
You seem to have nothing in your head but pus and rocks, or perhaps a rubberband with a peanut dangling from it. For God's sake, there are dealers out there that you can pick up Ag for .50 cents on the oz., that is, if you shed the lame jacket and put on the diligence coat. Even people with one glass eye and the other short sighted can find $2 over spot/oz if they spend a little time on it instead of stroking it.
I go to straightsilver.com they offer sales every once in a while and have a wishlist that keeps the stated price so you don't have to worry about paying more because the silver isn't available. The current sale was the Fu Dog 10 pack coins. There's no tax, shipping and handling, or premium for using a credit card. the price listed is the price paid. I'm locked in to 10 oz bars at 289.00 just waiting for the order to become available. Definitely one of the cheaper sites around.
I see what you're saying. Maybe it's just my impression, but in general the statements from TD(s) are general, speculative and almost never imperative in nature (e.g. we would imagine it might be a good idea to buy PMs if you believe this thesis vs. buy silver now, bitchez).
My feeling is that the large contingent of PM bugs here are already buying/have bought regardless of what TD or Max says. Those who are unaware or need convincing (like myself a couple of years ago) are better swayed by the in-depth exploration on the fundamentals, the players, the history, etc. -- than by shrill exhortations.
I do agree that this is a perfect mini-PM project, "homework" if you will. But also sense a reluctance on the part of the editorial/contributor staff to take an affirmative leadership role -- they guide through the woods and to the water, but we gotta drink up ourselves. Cog Dis wrote extensively on the topic, if you want to look up his posts -- but it boils down to "be the change you want to see in the world". We should NOT be waiting for TD or anyone else to take us by the hand and direct us. Scary as that is, I ultimately tend to agree.
Sean7K below makes a good point about Zerolemmings, which no one wants.
I completely agree that nobody should be sitting at the base of Mt. Paper Street waiting for Tyler to come down with a set of tablets. Yet so many times I have seen readers and staff describe what we have here as a community. Ritual and community building exercizes are critial to maintaining that, if it is something that people wish to be maintained, and it is human nature for people to look to the top for those things.
But Steak, what is Radio Zero, then...? And what are we doing right now?
Speaking of which, Marla(s) seem(s) to have gone into hibernation. Hope she's well.
Returning to your point, let's think of some community building exercises. I am strongly in favor of WB7's symbol campaign -- a small, inconspicuous ZH Theta sticker on every ATM you pass on your way to work, perhaps?
RadioZero is indeed the strongest community building endeavor on this site, and I am infinitely appreciative for it. I absolutely love the ZH Theta on ATMs idea as well.
For my part this is as far as I can take the conversation today (work calls :) but the conversation will continue and I am encouraged by all the dialogue positive and negative laid out here.
Here is a short clip on Youtube when Max first mentions this to Alex Jones as a "what if" kind of thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXt_Tx93940&feature=related
Steak I look around and see everyone buying silver, what do you mean this site hasnt been supporting this idea? Zerohedge has ran every article, and there are many threads all over the place here. I dont see how you conclude Zerohedge is in effect burying this, makes no sense.
I am not maintaining that ZH is trying to bury this. I am lamenting that it is simply being reposted with detached interest. How hard would it be for Tyler to say he endorses this idea and encourages ZH readers to do the same?
Beef steak - give tyler a break, he even replied to you. we are all grown ups here; the campaigns are for masses who dont know and cant learn.
Perhaps because Tyler can trust us make the appropriate decisions on our own? That we do not need a "leader"? What, if Tyler recommends it- we will rush out like zerolemmings and do what he says?
This site has more posts on silver and gold, that are well written and informative, then anywhere else I go- outside of Harry Organ and the new, please look it up soon, Turd Fergusan site( along the watchtower)
If you haven't figured out to buy PM's all the time, not just on Dec 9th, then you never will.
I do believe your comment cuts to the heart of the "con" side of what I'm advocating. Zerolemmings is not what anyone wants. There is a way to engage the readership without it devolving to that level, but my response is limited by my not knowing best practices in maintaining the proper balance. As noted above I think that balance can be found, but there are several conversations and reaching out for input that come first.
I like ZeroHedge specifically because ZH DOES NOT tell people what to think, unlike the MSM.
If you want to be told what to think, visit Faux News, or CNN, or whichever one floats your boat.
I suspect with regard to Tyler that there is a credibility issue here as well. Tyler understands that in order to be more widely read, one must not take personal positions by way of activism if the site is to have a chance at acceptance and credibility amongst the walking wounded and snoozing.
We must all remember that the MSM has a lip lock on the vast majority of the population. If one is to begin to wake the masses, one must walk a fine line between gaining acceptance by shocking them awake and inciting the guardians of the public myth (MSM) to attack ZH. One must play a bit of the same game as the mainstream media, meaning presenting a somewhat objective point of view. Faux News has been quite successful at this game.
If the rules are controlled by the major players, in order to be heard by the majority, the minority must play along with some of the rules. This means that while ZH can be strident and vocal, it must not be seen as "radical". And radical is often presented as someone or thing who's personal views are on display via activism. One can scream loudly and get away with it. But once you pick up the torch and rally those around you, the MSM will turn the people against you. ZH is trying to work on the edges of the system without turning the system against it. At least for now.
This is an explanation that I think makes sense. Of course, it might not be right.
Personally, I think Tyler does a great job of walking the tightrope. He provides commentary from all sources, then lets you decide. The commentary by readers becomes a great place to flesh out the subject and add additional viewpoints.
Tyler weighs in where he is misunderstood or questioned.
I, for one, do not want a leader. We have enough of those already and they are a huge pain in the ass.
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion Sean7k, you make very good points.
We all do that on occasion, that is why I come here. Thanks Steak.
Doesn't help to be 15 years early either, and trying to impart the information. Can't even use the 'Told'ya' today, even though the world is delivering in spades. Made for a good entry point however.
The inertial 'overload' of the MSM structure is a powerful addiction for the afflicted ones.
It is not up to Tyler to do anything, other than deliver every single detail of news. I think it is up to us to move Zerohedge in a direction of power and force. And while I am at it, some of us have been prescribing this idea for quite some time. It has been discussed ad nauseam on many threads. The idea to buy silver to collapse JPM's shorts had been captured before Max Keiser spoke it.
Buy Silver.
< I think it is up to us to move Zerohedge in a direction of power and force. >
I agree completely. But logistics matter, that can't happen unless someone actually DOES something. And anything beyond starting conversations in the comments section would need the approval and support of the site's editor-in-cheif. My point there is not to make demands of Tyler, but it is pure fantasy to think that this stuff can happen organically without involving him.
If Tyler took a stand on the fate of JPM, the next person would want a stand on every other issue infesting the world. What would be next? WTC "conspiracy" theories? Obama birth certificate? Illegal immigration? What next?
That's too wide a door to open.
Some of us have been saying this for over ten years. Back then nobody would listen. Nice to see we have some company now. Been a very long haul indeed.
I love the idea. Not sure it will work. At any rate, my sincere hope is that JPM will burn to the fucking ground one day.
Where and what is best to buy in regards to silver?
Silver Eagle 99% pure?
Ampex...the US Mint?
Thanks
Apmex is excellent. If you are purchasing over 25,000 try Tulving.com
As someone who is late to the party, I just want to say Thank You.
There are a lot of us who have the mental capacity to understand what is going on, but we never had a vested interest in looking into the items you and your cohorts have been spouting for so long.
But we are waking up. I didn't begin to do any homework of my own until they "crossed the line." For me, crossing the line was bailing out the banks. I'm sure there were plenty of clues to the problems before, but they didn't offend me.
There are others like me, with the capacity to understand, but they haven't been sufficiently offended yet to unplug from the system...........but they will. At the rate things are unravelling, people are waking up faster and faster (just reference Cog. Dis comment about clients above).
So, while you may feel like you are shouting alone in a forest, keep shouting. Eventually, people will hear your message and you will get the satisfaction of knowing you were instrumental in improving the lives' of others, even if they don't directly recognize your struggle.
As for me, I do recognize and appreciate your efforts, and I am proud to have the opportunity to add my voice and amplify your truth.
Thanks again.
It will work because of the idea of what it is. Precious metal is the best way to store value and wealth, and it is the perfect means to make transactions because of its fungiblility. Taking physical will stress the FIAT ponzi, and once the question is raised, 'Where is your silver, JP Morgan?' then it will cause a collapse of bank assets. Then everyone with the metal was benefited from collapsing the bank, due to their holdings. So the movement is very encompassing. The main detail of course is revealing the ponzi after the silver slippers have been put on.
Great. I've done my bit. Will follow.
Buy Buy BUY!!!
I thought this would be a more efficient way to do it, so I picked one up - $1T silver plate:
http://www.coin-rare.com/images/products/detail/12_ounce_silver_bullion_bars.png
Better watch out, since it's got the word "dollars" on it, the Treasury may come snooping around like they did with the Ron Paul Liberty Dollars.
Interesting, did not hear about the case, will check it out. Wouldn't they go after the mint first, though? Not planning on introducing it into circulation, just thought the plate design highly ironic.
All right! coin-rare.com has some different (,and shiny!) goodies!
Stop that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY
LOL
Clean up in aisle three. :>)
too funny, H.
age and deep meditation have greatly aided me in my twelve step program designed to minimize such unfortunate occurences - and as an added bonus thus saving on the skyrocketing costs of doing the laundry.