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McKinsey On State Capitalism

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Tue, 07/07/2009 - 18:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 19:42 | Link to Comment EQ
EQ's picture

It's about time someone with a substantial voice recognize what has been happening for FORTY YEARS.  For holy shit, I mean it's not all that hard to figure out we are in a state-driven economic model.  The governmetn is fudging the fucking rules with every new piece of legislation paid for by Exxon, IBM, Goldman Sachs, Saudi Arabia and anyone else who is willing to pay to play.  Fucking crooks.  Set the ground rules for economic participation and stay the fuck out of the market and let the economy work under a meritocracy.  Lobbying fucking whores and charlatans.

Tue, 07/07/2009 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 20:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 21:00 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 00:04 | Link to Comment aldousd
aldousd's picture

If there are people pulling strings, it's not a free market. The rest of your incoherent rant is not relevant after that.  The one thing you have to remember: you cannot use something that you hold to be true to prove that a consequent of it is untrue.  That would mean that you don't actually hold your premise to be true, which, again, invalidates the argument.  Have fun with your emotional drivel.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 03:14 | Link to Comment zeropointfield (not verified)
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 00:15 | Link to Comment aldousd
aldousd's picture

And just what the hell is "the common good" anyway? There is no "Common Good," there is only what is good for individuals, and each of them has a different thing that's 'good for them.'  There is nothing that can be said to be good for all of them, other than life itself.  And people do not live as a group. They live as individuals, interacting with other individuals. No group has ever thought a thought. No Group has ever shared an idea. The individuals in it must each move their own brain machinery to comprehend an idea, even if it enters their concsiousness via someone else's words or writings.  Nothing is automatic.  So, I would suggest that you start thinking about what's good for you.  Thinking.

 

Greed isn't good, when you acquire something by taking it from others by force. But when you simply look out for your own interest, without interfering with others rights, then it is good. Call it what you want.  There are bad actors, and some become very powerful, and very loud speakers, who claim that their greed is the kind that is good, and then use it as a shiv to the throat of others. They do not speak for capitalism. They are not the example which should damn the rest of us. Get your head on straight.   We don't seek to outlaw air travel from foreign countries when someone from China commits a crime here... why not? Because that's ridiculous. Bad actors do not serve to define the category.   Gee! This finger hurts from time to time, better lets chop off my fucking arm at the shoulder.

 

Ok. I'm done. For now.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:11 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 13:26 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Silliness, you commie pinko wag!  Why don't you put away that worn-out Constitution and pick up something as inspiring as it is timely: Atlas Shrugged.  If that doesn't straighten your head out, you probably don't even believe in the Bible!  Jeez. 

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 01:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 13:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 20:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 23:24 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 03:28 | Link to Comment zeropointfield (not verified)
Tue, 07/07/2009 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 03:30 | Link to Comment zeropointfield (not verified)
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 01:42 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 08:28 | Link to Comment Gabriel Gray
Gabriel Gray's picture

"State Capitalism/socialism is working"..... oh, really? for a moment I thought I had mistakenly logged onto the Comedy Central blog. Wait, let me check again, nope, Zero Hedge it is.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 05:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 06:00 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

We can live in, and lose a single family home.  Generally, the Europeans cannot.  We can own and misuse firearms - not in Europe.  We are innocent until proven guilty, not so in many European countries.  Your kids are free to succeed or fail: in Europe your social position is fixed by 7th grade in many cases.  We have never had a "conflict" that took the lives of 50 million people fought on our soil; the Europeans have had two in the past 100 years.  There might be a few more, I dunno.

 

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 06:29 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

I lived there for two years.  I'm in the States now.  I have developed a keen sense of anti-nationalistic fervor in these past few years.  Our unique culture demands an ability to ignore what our government, and my neighbors are doing - that's pretty free.  I did not feel compelled to borrow heavily during the "boom" and I was not required to.  That is also pretty free.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 20:01 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

Russia is both Europe and Asia.  The war was predominantly fought in the European part of Russia.

Thu, 07/09/2009 - 04:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 06:28 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:26 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

What was the percentage of Europeans living in a single family dwelling again?

How many American kids succeed against all odds?  There are very few GS and Yale's in proportion to our population. 

You misunderstood my post.  I don't care about your social system - that's your business.  We have our own system, flawed as it is, and exist out of the European paradigm.  There's nothing wrong with it either.  But it's ours.  I do not care to be a European.  I am an American.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:43 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

To which I can merely say "stay in the place you are most comfortable."  Socialism is anathema to many Americans, and that's what direction the managed economies seem to head.

 

Peace dude.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:46 | Link to Comment jm
jm's picture

Good reading.  "State capitalism" is nothing more or less than fascism, or corporatism, as Il Duce called his state.

 

There have been a lot of commnents about who is next in the line of defaults.  But the article is conjuring a multi-year scenario, and necessary considerations even after economies recover.

 

Considering the risks of rising protectionism and poliical breach of the sanctity of contract, it seems that everyone should be in "wealth preservation mode" right now. 

 

Thankfully, the Swiss government gets the dangers of fascism, and is acting appropriately. 

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 09:59 | Link to Comment Bob Dobbs
Bob Dobbs's picture

I agree.  A terrific read, and a great comment section that followed.

Wed, 07/08/2009 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 07/08/2009 - 14:30 | Link to Comment kurt_cagle
kurt_cagle's picture

Sorry for the repost - forgot to log in.

William Strauss and Niel Howe wrote a book some years ago called Generations, that looks at the long term behavior of each cohort (over roughly 18-20 years) in relationship to previous and following cohorts, and they defined as part of that the notion that there is an approximately eighty year cycle that these generations cycle through. While the specific turnings (20 year subcycle) vary depending upon commentator, most look something like the following:

  • Awakening - Takes place after a crisis, as the next generation starts picking up the pieces and establishing a new society/economy.
  • Growth - A period of innovation, typically marked by the rise of a middle class and increased standards of living. Previous middle class becomes the upper class.
  • Consolidation - Power becomes consolidated in upper class oligarchy, corruption increases, social inequality rises, middle class standards decline, eventually results in a full oligarchy.
  • Collapse - Imbalances become unsustainable, system collapses, eventually oligarchy is overthrown by middle class leaving society is in disarray.

Then things cycle back to the Awakening.

We are just now entering into the Collapse phase now in the cycle. The upper class this cycle are the financials (including health insurance and oddly big pharma), military/industrial, big media and oil companies, all of which came to power in the 1930s and 1940s. The middle class for the most part are in tech companies, services, biotech and solar economy1 companies. Most of the companies now in trouble are part of the older "upper class". They are in fact dying, but their death throes are violent enough to cause significant devastation throughout the economy.

Given the imbalances involved, this particular collapse is likely to be huge and devastating. My suspicion is that once we cycle through to the Awakening phase (in about 15-18 years), the United States will likely not be a single geopolitical entity anymore, but anywhere from three to perhaps as many as ten.

1 The solar economy is the transition to an electrical rather than hydrocarbon based transportation grid, with energy produced by a spectrum of alternatives. It may (and probably will) include oil and coal, but dependency upon external oil sources will be reduced significantly, if not eliminated outright.

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