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Meet Danielle And Jim Plus 9 Part 2 - This Time Squatting On The Ratigan Show
Today's media sensation (and future leaders of some symbolic resistance) - the Earls, who after falling behind on their $880,000 loan, inspired by recent events, decided to take matters into their own hands (and the hands of their 9 children) and broke back into their foreclosed house. The police in local Simi Valley, made famous previously by such cult deadbeat classics as the Big Lebowsky, were so stumped by this they had no idea what the hell is going on so they just watched... Which seems to also be the general response of most of America. Today, the Earls appeared on the Ratigan show to present their side of the story. Gotta love the lawyer who cuts to the chase when he says that the banks aren't really owed the $880K noted above, "they are owed zero." Next up: everyone in America who has debt (and that would mean about 300 million people) decides to follow this advice, and "realizes" they don't actually owe any money to the bank. Problem solved.
So without further ado:
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Squat till the cows come home. Screw the banks.
Yeah...
You're an idiot.
Don't you know that you will end up eating this on your tax bill through either the FDIC or bailing out the Fed's portfolio of MBS? I suspect not...
If he's on ZH then I suspect he understands that. However, the people who are hell bent on getting theirs, may be the ones who make out best in the end of this. Imagine 2 years of free living. That's probably about $50K worth of shelter in exchange for a hit to your credit report. I'm not advocating it, but there are people who are doing it, no doubt.
Again there no such thing as a free lunch and there is no such thing as zero money. Somone is going to pick up the slack. Gee, who is it that had to back stop this crap since day one?
In the Age of the Printing Pre$$ taxes are a form of control:
Fuck the IRS and every other tax feeder out there.
If a squatter squats in one of the many empty and over abundant houses, does anybody care?
Put a sign on the door: "No drugs, cash, or copper inside."
Add a "P.S. But we can welcome you with some lead, of which we have a shitload" to it.
Yes, if they already bought the house from the bank that foreclosed on those squatters.
If you owe money on a property, and default on the note, you have no right to any enjoyment of said property.
-Common Law
What note?
Like 50 cent they chopped and screwed them up.
That's the point. Just about every mortgage that was securitized, will end up being null and void.
Because to the banks, the loan didn't matter....until now that it does.
If they don't own it...who does? It isn't the bank, they have no note.
Thus the best way, albeit very flawed way, is for everybody to keep their homes.
The BANKS fucked up. This is why you don't let things get this far. Next up, another cum in the face partier who says the answer is free trade and degregulation. *and of course regulatory capture*
The problem with all of this is that the fraud (and thus the bailouts were fraud beyond every other reason why it already was) rocks the very core of our legal system. You either break all contract law, or you let people stay in the homes. The banks fucked up. Not the people. Perhaps if the banks DIDN'T fuck up, and they were regulated along with many other things, the bubble wouldn't of caused these people to take out such an inflated loan figure, and thus been more able to pay it off, most likely with more manufacturing jobs and higher wages. It's the system as a whole that's been defrauding people and hasn't given them a chance. Now that the banks have gone too far, some people would still rather see the banks, the ones pulling the strings on this whole situation, to receive the 'not owned by anyone' houses rather than the people that originally wanted them, and in most cases were going to attempt to pay off the loan. Unreal. Can you bend over and further?
Because in order to give these loans to the banks, you would need to ACTUALLY GIVE the loans, millions of them, to an entity that does not own them. Why the banks? Why not GM? Or Pimco? Or McDonalds? Or Illinois State Teachers Retirment Fund? Why not Joe Blow on the street?
The BEST, and the most moral and ethical way, not to mention the ONLY anti-pitchfork way around this giant scam perpetrated among the American People, and the end investors is to give the homes to those that orignally purchased it and lived in it. Makes sense huh.
If we decided not to, we'd have to literally legalize the giving of all these unowned properties to the banksters whores that don't own them.
The knowledge of this has been out there for years, only now it's coming out. This actual events really shouldn't surprise anyone, the only surprise is that it finally came out and was legally recognized.
Again the banksters would of been better off with LaRouche's HBPA of 2007, but whoops, they wanted to profit off their worthless toxic shit, that they don't even legally own, and wanted a bailout so they could buy the treasuries for that bailout and profit more. Amongst many other ways. One huge scam.
This situation sucks, and it was the whole degregulation and drown gov't in the bathtub thinking that got us directly here. Along with a few other travesty's already in place, fed, monetary system, floating rates, free trade.
But the pied piper is calling, and all the toxic trash will be serenaded away. The price? Pulling the gov't up out of the bathtub and actually using it to smack the bankster whores down.
Again, Glass/Steagall, NAWAPA, Fusion. That's really all you need to know. If you want more, and you should, then search around.
jmc...,
" The banks fucked up. Not the people. Perhaps if the banks DIDN'T fuck up, and they were regulated along with many other things, the bubble wouldn't of caused these people to take out such an inflated loan figure,"
When we become adults we are presumably responsible for our own behavior. If a person is overdriving his headlights on a dark night and collides with a stopped car ahead of him, who caused it? Is it the roadbuilder because street lights were not installed all along the road? Is it the stopped motorist who had car trouble? Perhaps it is the fault of the car builder because he didn't install radar to detect objects farther ahead?
Once upon a time, the American public in general, understood the concept of personal responsibility much better than today. IMO, because livelihood was more dependant on the making, growing or production of something. Even during the 1930's depression, many people resisted taking government "handouts" because they were too proud. "I can take of my self; I don't need any favors from anyone"
The concept of placing blame on others for personal actions would have been ridiculed.
Stealing (Fraud) was a different matter. Different category in the thought process.
Hi hb, not sure what you are. you so describe america. no personal responsibility. that scenario you explain about the car without headlights on at night. a very serious accident where i use to live. 18 wheel flatbed truck actually delivering equipment to winter X games. had his truck turning onto the hi-way without headlights in early morning darkness. two people in a little car right into or under the bed, cut off the whole top of the car. can't remember if the man was charged or anything.
around my parts i live now. i swear no one looks around ever, before they move in a car bike or just walking. idiot entitled white stupid people. they think everyone else is taking care of them, because that is how they were raised. the parents fall all over these kids all the way through college. they never taught them self reliance.
oh just saw this Mountain climber dies in fall, 2 others rescued
this adventurous lifestyle everyone wants lately. puts the rescuers in danger. when my husband went off the top of a mountain on his snowmobile they couldn't find him for over 24 years. it was a precarious place and they had to leave his snowmobile up there, yuck. i don't want to sound like this accident was intentional. but dozens of men risking their lives trying to find another person is serious and dangerous business. i had all contributions to me or whatever be made to mountain rescue and wrote a long letter, well my sister helped me make sense of what i was trying to say with words. meaning i wanted to thank all these men for doing the job they had to do, but steve was a little irresponsible.
You are just describing the nature of masculinity - it maybe stupid to feminine eyes but it just is.
Have you ever asked yourself why the rescuers volunteer. - because a part of themselves want to embrace risk wether they like it or not.
The simple truth of the matter is that on a biological level males are more expendable.
The denial of this reality has led to a crisis in masculinity and indeed humanity when such heroic adventures to Mars and beyond has been denied to a young generation of boys because of the rise of the maternal power structure withen the west.
We strive to be odysseus, not some shallow risk averse construct of the present culture.
Many foolish Americans think that the money they pay the bagmen for the FED, the IRS, is used to run and fund the govenment. It is not. It is used to pay the interest on the public debts that we owe (somehow) to the FED and the gangster banksters who have their collective boots on our necks. Get of the FED and the matrix collapses.
There is no free lunch, but if things are really going down and down hard as many are forecasting, perhaps it is just good strategy. Yes, the buck will eventually stop at the taxpayers door , it always does it seems. No one here that I remember at least, argues the banks have not screwed America on a macro basis. Screw the banks now; default and load up on PM's and other supplies for the life and or system after this one.. No advocation of this, but it may explain many peoples thought process..
21:12. we know who has been the enemy for 1,000's of years. We are soldiers in a holy war... this is a libertarian american jihad. get your lawyers; prepare for discovery, gather your data, ready your armies.
would be interesting if we could bring a systemic change through these actions, by blessed warriors (squatters and defaulters) in the fight against banker tyranny. our politicians dont fear WE THE PEOPLE... that shit has to STOP...
want the truth? investigate 21:12 and you'll be on the path.
thought i heard someone say this once:
trade credit for gold, default your loans..taxpayer revolt to bring it all down.
21:12
i think cheeky, fore casted this as well, a while back. good luck to all.
Hot Hot Heat - 21@12 (Official Video)
December 21 2012, The official Website for 122112 InformatioNope Cheater...
won't get our country back until we get Count Bankula off our necks.
Let the fuckers burn.
The U.S. is heading for default ANYWAY!
It does not get fixed until the USA brings back the rule of law. Letting banksters and deadbeats alike off the hook accomplishes nothing. It's called accountablilty for your actions. Something that the land of Paris Hilton no longer knows or desires.
If the banksters wouldn't have invented this scheme to bundle up crap mortgages and pawn them off on investors as AAA paper,then there would have been no real estate bubble, and nobody would have needed these ridiculous mortgages on overpriced real estate that they couldn't afford.
Banksters - Jail and bankruptcy for the holders of crap paper.
Rating Agencies - Fined to oblivion for negligence or jail if complicit in the securitization scam.
"I really needed that rediculous mortgage because I can't be a pauper and rent" - Foreclosure. Now go rent like you should have to begin with.
"My house is an ATM and I went on 5 great vacations. Look at my BMW too!" - Foreclosure + a hot bath with Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Richard Shelby.
Good idea! But first freeze the foreclosures for year to burn the balanceshits (pun intended!) of the TBTFs. Let the squatters take over houses to create some long needed chaos in this over/underregulated mess and not pay any fees - once again a long needed hit to the banks.
And in a year's time when the TBTFs get the message, implement new laws that hit both sides.
I'm not with deadbeats that want a free house on this. But en masse they could get the message to the banks that thought they were omnipotent to the point that they could do what the fuck they please. They are not, and people like these, whatever we might think of them, can be a good solution to hammering that idea back into some overmasseured heads up wallstreet.
And the depression would have started in 2001 instead of 2009.
Fuckin A........I wish this whole thing would shit or get off the pot
We know the inevitability, but how long can they postpone it? Just get it over with already.
that is a very good observation, modo
its simple. they teach morality so they can consume the moral. they teach passivity so they can aggress. they train the sheep so the wolves can be assured of an abundant food supply.
its darwins casualty...
oh, and controlling the money supply. nothin else, really.
Conversely, there will be Hell to pay. It's a lose/lose for them...
Just think about a default and see in your mind's eye, just exactly life here would be like under such circumstances. It will be a very bad time in our lives. Also I believe this must come. It has to. The finanical malfeasance and slight of hand can only go so far before the laws of financial phyics come back to square one, and that is real money.
That shining city on the hill is only sparkling since the vajazzled whores of the good 'ol US of A are wearing short skirts.
and the Rule of Law comes with a laugh track...
@ cheater 5, No, you are spineless. To fix what has gone terribly wrong, we're going have to break some eggs. The system is going to have to be fundamentally corrected / rectified. Only way that's going to happen is bring the big festering boil to a head via people doing what these folks are doing. Raise the problem to the nations consciousness and repeat until the pain is so great a resolution is forced.
Tax bill? Screw that. Welcome to the banana republic.
People have seen well connected bankers and politicians get away with this shit for years.
Now its time for everyone else to get some.
This is the revolution; right here, right now.
This shit will get real when cops start calling in sick.
The wrong kind of people are behind FRAUDZILLA, and the time is coming where it will all blow up!
+100
They should be arrested and beaten
Might as well put it on the books now, so that when hyper inflation takes off it'll disappear that much faster.
MBS is already screwed,blued, and tatooed. A wave of deficit chicken hawks will be swept into Congress, ill-advised austerity will be slammed down our throats, and the economy's contraction will accelerate. This means we are seeing only the tip of the foreclosure iceberg.
What is a more expensive tax bill: tens of millions of empty and unsaleable houses or former owners paying rent to stay in them?
Hows that derivatives market doing? I thought that was all supposed to be transparent by now.
Get a grip - even under austerity the printing press still has to back fill the National Money Hole. Austerity only postpones the fiat death. Did you know EUC is a perverse incentive? Some Nobel egghead said so, not me.
http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/mainstream-economics-and-no...
However, your suggestion to get rent from the employed squatters does ameliorate the urge for the rest of the middle class to go Galt. I realize some here on ZH cheer lead such an outcome, but they probably haven't a) thought it through as a complete exercise, or b) have any loved ones (that love them back).
WASHINGTON - The US Congress, the domed bastion of democracy in the capital of capitalism, abounds with deep-pocketed politicians whose fortunes have made the legislative branch of government a millionaire's club.
In the 435-member House of Representatives, 123 elected officials earned at least one million dollars last year, according to recently released financial records made public each year
Millionaires Fill US Congress Halls
Other than credit and headaches, what do banks produce? There's an elite who have concluded that the best way to make money is TO MAKE MONEY, but, for the REAL economy, money and credit are just a means to the end of producing and exchanging goods and services. Sound risk management for stewarding economic activity is SUPPOSED TO BE value-added from banking in a free market economy, but has that proven to be the case? To the contrary. Instead the most irresponsible sorts, possessed by unrepentant greed, have taken charge of our nation's finances with their main goal being to line their own pockets with gross disregard to their high responsibility for sound stewardship. Now everyone is paying the price....everyone except the banksters that continue in their brazen, fraudulent looting unchecked by a government long since bribed into connivance. So....should the American people simply sit back and allow the banksters to lay claim to our nation's wealth, built by the labor and toil of non-bankers, for their irresponsibility and recklessness? Or should the banks be allowed to collapse, as would have already occurred if accounting was honest, such that the American people effectively take control of their own credit arrangements via Uncle Sam so maybe finances are reworked to be manageable and based upon revaluation of underlying assets. Of course, the problem remains that Uncle Sam needs to be subservient to the people instead of the banks for this to occur and succeed.
We were warned of this by Thomas Jefferson, one of the authors of the Constitution. He (they) understood that the power of money is reserved to the Congress, and, having given it away in 1913, they can take it back with popular support. By Convention if necessary. Please vote for those capable of such a movement.
Quoting Cheater5
Yeah...
You're an idiot.
Don't you know that you will end up eating this on your tax bill through either the FDIC or bailing out the Fed's portfolio of MBS? I suspect not...
Normally I would agree with you, but the banks will simply find another way to screw us via a system that is broken. We should have let the major banks fail and nationalized, rather than let them steal from us by socializing losses. Fuck the Banksters!
They ain't shit until South Park says so.
So true...Matt and Trey are on it for Kenny's parents right now.
Back to the thread--they had an I/O mortgage on refi, right? When did the neg-am kick in? Nobody is talking about the actual idiotic mortgage they took out in the first place on the refi. It is quite possible the payment was on it's way up due to the I/O only being for X number of months. But fuck logic.
Fuck it. I want her house. I own it and I'm moving in. Prove it. PTR 91 bitches...
Dylan talks a great game. Doing "Gods" work for sure but you know what? They won't allow the light to be flashed in that direction. They won't. Just like they will not allow a nuke attack without mutual destruction, they will not allow a financial bomb to detonate. Keep believing in the truth....that and a wooden nickle...
PTR-91 +1 bitchez.. 300 meter security
Huh? No...tactical. However the 20'' barrel will have you smokin a gnats azz at 150 meters. That is proven
All said-n-done if you picked .308 you struck righteousness.
Get yourself at least a decent red-dot (EO Tech; Aimpoint (preferred by experience)) or royalty: ACOG. That is the good shit; considering.
.308, happily turning cover into concealment... When you absolutely, positively need to cut that car in half, accept no substitute.
By the way, what do you use for a mount, I have tried several and been unhappy.. True german or??
.223 if you want to drill. .338 if you want to bend fold spindle and mutilate.
.308 is too big to drill and too small to bend fold spindle and mutilate.
You can't get good ammo for .50 caliber and .338 lapua in MATCH grades is just as expensive as .50 bmg in it'll go bang grade.
.308's good for cars. .338 lapua will turn a working 6 ton truck into a looking for mr goodwrench commercial. Just by putting one round into the right place to crack it and another round close enough get inside. Be it engine blocks, rear axles or hubs. It doesn't care.
Now if you just want to shoot people behind brick walls. .308's pretty good at that. Know strength and weaknesses of what you are dealing with. .223 will go through more steel, .308 will go through twice as much masonry.
What the hell happend?? Got to go find my spectacles...
Large sum payment and the balance didn't change...
uhhh... your lump sum payment was likely applied to penalties, fees and interest, not loan principle.
and negative amortization.
pines said it today is the day 10/14/2010
If the banks have no equity in your home because of their ledger book money creation, where do they get the right to confiscate your equity after years of toil? They have no skin in the game so where do they get the foreclosure leverage from? It's a case of downright theft.
If you buy a house from someone based on credit, it's your credit, not the bank's. Remove the banks from the equation and you are promising the vendor regular payments, over time, from your future wages. In a case of default, the forecloser should be the vendor, as your deal was with him.
Under the present system, using the banks as go-betweens and using their counterfeit money, the banks have weaseled their way into a contract between you and a vendor, that is all.
If the banks owned the home and were selling the home to you or loaned you the money, real money, and you defaulted, then I could understand. Because the banks have not sold you anything but only facilitated the advancement of your own future wages. They are basically credit facilitators, rent skimmers, offering you the use of your own money.
In time, people will learn to make their own private and legal contracts that contain the same legal protections that are in current ones.
The piper will be paid for all this as it is baked in the cake to fail. What the price will be is likely to be multi-faceted but you can bet that it will parallel the fable and that part of the payment will be real money and the lives of your children. The endless wars are upon us. Just part of their game.
limbo dance, part 2.
how low can y'all go?
9 children??? Now that is another ponzi scheme that will destroy the world
six are adopted, just thought I'd get that fact upthread before the rest arrive. . .
Ah, I see. In that case, very well done to them for taking them all into their family.
But, too many children for other families still makes the ponzi case valid.
From the depths of cynicism, I would wonder how much social security these little revenue streams might qualify for?
probably as much as any other family who applied.
here's some information from the other thread that people might find helpful.
by JRon Thu, 10/14/2010 - 14:25
#650798
Additional information from Housing Watch...
…"When we were evicted we went to the Extended Stay America because they were the only hotel around that would let us have that many children, and a dog and two cats," Danielle Earl, 44, told HousingWatch. "We split up into two hotel rooms for a month." She is the part owner of a medical devices company and her husband is a stay-at-home dad. After their hotel stay they moved to a short-term rental, but their credit issues would keep them from obtaining a property that would permanently suit their needs, she said
…Danielle Earl (pictured) says that she and her husband have been foster parents to 43 children over the years and they currently home-school most of their school-age children (six of whom are adopted). So she admits that the walls were probably a bit scuffed and in need of a paint job, and some of the carpet was worn. But, she says, she and her family only had a day to collect their things and have movers haul it away, so it's not like they were leaving the home in a show-ready state.
…The Earls, who admit to having fallen behind on their mortgage at one point due to a loss of income in Danielle’s business, say that they were working with the bank to catch up on their payments. However, she says, whenever they made a payment it was not being reflected on statements, even a $12,500 catch-up payment was not credited to the balance due. Ultimately, there was a $25,000 discrepancy between what they thought they still owed in arrears and what the bank said they owed.
… The Earls question who owns the loan, as the foreclosure documents list GRP Financial Services, but there have been several lenders listed in the past few years. The original lender was Washington Mutual Bank, which became JPMorgan Chase after the banks merged. The loan went to Bank of America on the same day that Chase sent the homeowners a notice of default. The Earls argue that Chase never properly assumed the loan and thus did not have the right to sell it off. And in turn, the investors, Conejo Capital Partners, did not properly purchase the property either.
http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/10/12/evicted-family-breaks-in-to-own-home/20
Yeah, I've seen all that. I've also seen foster parents use money for things other than the kids' direct, or even indirect expenses. Suddenly there is a new car, home improvements. But hey, it's OPM.
It doesn't matter unless it's Steve Earle
She's running a friggin' Extended Stay Daycare!!
It's Cali so maybe we'll get some good suburban fights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvq-8ji9hU0
The death benefit (love that phrase) is $255 whether the survivors are kings or paupers.
Actually they are foster parents. Motivation for foster parents can be financial, the more kids the more state money.
I know both parents who adopted and foster care parents, very different attitudes towards the kids.
I know 3 kids who lost their parents in a car accident. They have an aunt, who seemed to want nothing to do with them, until she found out about the Social Security money, and the the settlement from the tire company.
So i see they are both foster and adoption parents. Nice to see some stability for the 6 adopted children (by stability I mean not having to move from foster parent to another every 6 months).
Probably part of the 45 million Americans on welfare and food stamps.
He who panics first panics best.
Do you know where your "money" is ?
We crossed the Rubicon and have entered the Twilight zone. Strap yourselves in.
Nice trans-millennial metaphor mashup!
Alea iacta est, so show me your cards.
I see what you did there. Who says high school Latin was a waste?
Unless we're talking "bug out". Nice camping. "When do we go home dad?"
Anyone ever seen Mosquito Coast?
If you aren't already living a truly sustainable lifestyle now you must make the change. There is a storm approaching, in full view, yet everyone is pretending we'll all be okay.
www.survivalblog.com
Not available in THX Surround Sound.
[There is a storm approaching, in full view, yet everyone is pretending we'll all be okay.
www.survivalblog.com]
Terrific website! Created by James Wesley Rawles, author of Patriots (fiction novel).
Mosquito is one of my fav. movies, except he didn't have a defense plan.
Seems like rule of law is breaking down just a little
If "normal" people start to do this, it won't be long before the modern-day urban land pirate gangs start going Mad Max and squatting in the McMansion suburbs
I would watch out for gangs that "move into" just completed housing projects. The things aren't really selling since nobody can get a loan, it would be easy.
"It's okay officer, I bought the place last week. The guy at the bank is full of it. Why not come in and have a cup of coffee, we just got the electricity turned on this morning..."
That's the scary part: the narcotraficantes have an entire parallel society under their thumb in every US city. Even your average survivalist hasn't considered that.
?Habla Espanol?
Squatters living in the homes they have stopped paying the mortgage on is hardly Mad Max.
Great Depression, certainly, but not even close to Mad Max. If they start killing bankers with metal boomerangs, then maybe. No-one is getting killed here. Once the mess is sorted out, then someone will either pay the legitimate title holder, the home will be foreclosed by the legitimate title holder, or the title will be deemed lost and the property will be homesteaded. None of those solutions are the end of the world. They are just expensive, and that isn't the fault of the people who bought the homes, it is the fault of the banks, and the banks should have to pay for it one way or another.
If it happens in Texas next time, where you can legally use deadly force to protect your property, and 2 parties have a legitimate claim to the property, well....get yer popcorn. :)
cheeky...got the diet rootbeer..see ya on the porch...
that's not CHEEKY, that is CHEESY....
can't say I like the knock off, with all due respect.
Knock off avatars and one-off monikers are a sure sign that Zero Hedge has made it in China. Let me know if you see a hedgeless_whore's_man around.
LOL, that would be me, but in behavior only...
Cheeky is now TD for those watching at home. A guy like that doesn't just disappear
ya fooled me 2. laughing, hard laugh. LHL. your G o_o D .
WTF is your deal? Why aren't you working on cryptographics or something?
Some guys in Atlanta already took some mini mansions by filing their own paperwork and claiming to be sovereign. I guess they took a page from Lender Processing Services. They did get busted.
Banks knew 28% of MBS did not meet due dilligence standards. Josh Rosner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j2esw2B8TI&feature=player_embedded
85% of statistics are made up...
You'll take a check? well hell I just pay the darn thing off!
Now who do I make this thing out to...dont know do ya?
What is the fair value once a currency fails and a debt owed in the failed currency? Does the property get revalued or is there a jubilee of sorts? Seriously, at this point I want to go buy a house I dont need, I literally can throw a rock from my yard and hit three houses that are in foreclosure.
totally out of whack. Talking about the wild wild west!
eff the earls.....
Sadly, this woman and her pig family is the poster family of this generation of irresponsibility and greed. She and her scumbag husband should be in debtor's prison and the brats in foster care. This country is truly fucked, stick a fork in it.
Oh, and the banks should go bankrupt and the CEOs sent to the electric chair.
Hey Tom, you owe me $500,000. Hand it over or get your ass in debtor's prison where you belong.
Sure, I have no paperwork proving that I ever lent you money, but I' a banker, so I don't need to prove anything. YOU have to prove that the home you are living in wasn't paid for with my money.
Due process isn't just an empty aphorism. It is necessary. You think these people belong in debtor's prison when you have absolutely no proof that the bank that claims they own them money is the one they actually owe the money to. What if they pay it off, and then some other mortgager comes along and says that THEY are the ones they should have been paying, and force them to start making payments again? Or do you want to shift the burden of proof to the accused now? Guilty until proven innocent? Great idea. Just TERRIFIC.
Isn't there a story going around about a guy who owned his house free+clear being foreclosed on my his lender? I suppose they had record of the loan, weren't seeing payments, and contacted the courts. That would be really hard to fight. You could end up on the street before it was cleared up, and without your home it's that much harder to fight further. And who would believe a rumored deadbeat over the word of the banks? Banks are forging documents, not much to stop them from going all-out.
It's an interesting scenario. If banks can get a branch of law enforcement to turn people out on nothing more than their say-so, then there's not much stopping banks from just evicting random homeowners and reselling their homes on the courthouse steps for pocket change. If they get caught it was "regrettable" and the new owner can fight it out with the rightful owner in the courts.
Cougar - You are refering to the Rep. Alan Grayson video where he calls for a foreclosure moratorium. He describes the case you are talking about as an example of abuse by the banks, giving the evicted guys name and location (Miami?? - don't remember.)
These deadbeats certainly don't own the house and neither have paid back the 380K they were loaned. If neither they own it and neither the bank owns it then give the damn house back to whomever had it before it was "bought" by these weasles. Then the bank can say that they mistaken gave that person the payoff from the house and ask for it back, but if the bank doesn't own it, certainly neither does this family.
And who loaned them the 380K? Do they just get to keep that too? They should be in jail for that or bankrupt.
The banks are criminals but so is this family if all they want is a freebie without paying for it.
Me thinks the population majority at this point will likely side with the family criminals vs. the bankster criminals. Perhaps the local sheriff and police department too, who will soon realize their pensions are tied up in these MBS securities in their pensions and the only ones with any money (and bonuses) are the Oligarchs (Bankster Criminals).
And there it is folks. Moral Hazard delivered with a cute little bow on the evening news.
How do you define moral hazard when every party in the trade is suddenly on the make?
Why does one party have to be more "moral" than the other? Who decides that?
When is "being moral" just another way of saying that someone is a patsy or a stooge?
We're none of us idiots. The rules were changed, suddenly. BB is giving away money.
What are the rules now? And when will they change back to what they were, back when I was happy with the world and my place in it?
I guess we could say it's a double negative and it just vaporizes all laws and money...
There is moral hazard on both sides of this trade, absolutely. However, at the end of the day, one party is holding all the money while the other one continues to be reloaded into a rechargeable battery array for the next draining.
This is where WB7 inserts an image of the "rule of law" chalk drawing on the ground.
Or you could turn that around and claim that the rule of law became a chalk drawing in 1913. Or 1776. Or pick your date.
We're waaaaay down some kind of rabbit hole here.
Agreed. However, I would argue that up until recently we still had the opportunity to right the ship, throw the rudder wide, and put the engines in reverse before it careened over the waterfall. We have now passed beyond the point of no return, where even if the engines were thrown into reverse and the rudder thrown wide (by the way neither of which has been even tried or shows any signs of manifesting even) we could return to a land of laws.
The boat is on full throttle, the rudder straight as an arrow with the waterfall dead ahead and no signs of any slowing.
If you look closely enough, you'll see the oligarchs jumping off the side in their launch boats, loaded to the gills with all of your money.
B9K9's MilIndComp:
http://www.dyn-intl.com/
The Mother of All Tapeworms
And then, of course, there's a third (and possibly many more) side to this. The folks that continued to rent and waited to buy/mortgage a home with a reasonable, sustainable payment; never saw their wages increase enough to get there; saw the government refuse to allow real estate values to clear/settle at affordable values; and now get to watch as these fucking bankers get to keep their profits and these fucking deadbeat borrowers squat in their homes (hell, maybe even have enough land to grow their own food); all with zero accountability as mentioned above.
No moral hazard for that side. Just the unpleasant feeling of having a rusty pipe shoved up their ass without lube while they continue to pay rent. Fuck that! Go ahead you no-accountability fuckers; bring on the fucking chaos. The "authorities" will be so fucking busy that we on this third side can finally say, "Fuck you, we're not paying our rent."
Jubilees are bullshit. Squatting is bullshit. Fraud is bullshit. Bring it, motherfuckers, I'm tired of fucking waiting.
I have to steal the quote again because it's so appropriate.
"Mother nature bats cleanup".
"Mother nature bats cleanup."
Damn straight! Now let's get started with the real Darwinism, or punctuated equilibria if you choose. Dog eat dog, let the chips fall where they may; I may be on the wrong end of it; so be it.
And, if you haven't acknowledged that when this all goes down horrificly wrong, you may end up pushing up daisies, and made your peace with that fact, you are as ignorant and fast asleep as all those folk that you like to label "Joe Sixpack" or "sheeple."
Why side with either!? These people have as much right to that house as I do. Screw them, I have as much equity in that $800k place as they do, so they can GTFO.
Just because the bankers are screwing us all doesn't mean idiots that can't comprehend living within their means ought to be able to live wherever they please.
Fuck the banks, fuck idiots that think that they're not accountable for the messes they put themselves in. Even if some paperwork is awry somewhere, these people don't dispute for a second that they were behind on the loan (an idiotic, interest only refi). They were so far underwater that they're probably better off not being in the house.
I junked you.
"Even if some paperwork is awry somewhere," you said that.
Property rights are important. Restore the law or it's over. Treat people lawfully and with respect. If a borrower is behind in their payments apply the law. If the lender hasn't bothered to follow the law then they suffer the consequences, legally.
This is a real test for America. You failed it.
Restore the laws, yes.
But FUCK minimum wage workers who believe they should own a $1/2MM home just cause the Jones's do.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with renting - and if they think their apartment is too small for them then they should stop making babies.
I agree 100% that the "rule of law" needs to be followed, *by both parties*. If it's FACT that the banks broke laws and screwed these people over, then this family ought to be able to sue their balls off. You espouse this families actions, while at the same time calling for the banks to follow the law. That if we don't follow laws it's over. Ok, I agree. Where does breaking and entering factor into following the law? Nowhere in the 'rule of law' does it say that it's perfectly ok for you to break the law if someone else broke it first.
The way this should be resolved is if the banks broke laws, they should be prosecuted etc. Right after we're done with that this family can also be held accountable for not 'following the law'.
"If the lender hasn't bothered to follow the law then they suffer the consequences, legally."
And if that's what had happened, but the family breaks in anyway, what then?
Look, I understand what you're saying, but let's look at this from another perspective. If I continue to make the payments on my house for another 8 years until my mortgage is paid off, will I then be able to obtain a clear title? If my lender hasn't maintained a clear chain, what's my incentive to follow through with my end of the deal? Can somebody assure me it's actually going to be my house? If not, then fuck 'em.
As pissed as I've been throughout this whole deal, I've pretty much kept up my end because it's the right thing to do. But now, I'm starting to think maybe I want to see the note; not just to "get a free house", or walk away, but to make sure I don't throw away another 8 years of good money after 12 years of bad.
All that is needed for the forces of evil to triumph is for enough good men to keep paying their mortgages.
And even that won't be enough, but I didn't wan't to f up the quote.
Probably million dollah digs before the latest deval, not 330k.
These are not poor honest folk tossed out with nowhere to go, this is a case of an underwater McMansion mortgage and a couple of freeloaders who consider debt to be the measure of their wealth.
Isn't this in Congressman Pete Stark's district? Debt IS wealth!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjbPZAMked0&feature=player_embedded
It is California. As Joseph Marie de Maistre said, "Every country (or in this case state) has the government it deserves."
If the banks did not own it, after the first transfer of title, and everyone knows they did not own it... by your logic, the originator of the loan would get it back. Except WAMU does not exist anymore. Citi sold the loan after they took over WAMU, so Citi does not own the loan. That would leave the construction company. Yet, they sold the title. Which may not exist anymore.
Time for a government resolution trust corporation... not run by the banks. Take over all the bad loans, value them at original sale price (or give a haircut) and price the monthly payments at an affordable level.
The other problem is that contracts today are 'gauranteed acceptance' contracts. As soon as the contract is broken, without regard to circumstances, the deal is off. Once upon a time in America, during times of hardship or unusual circumstances - not including fraud, criminal activity, etc. - a debtor could go to his creditor and ask for a stay. This was called 'taking care of each other and business'. Sadly, too many are unwilling and greedy (except when it happens to them).
Last, everyone who aided and abetted this fraud should have their shit taken from them. A note about that. This would not have happened if the banks did not approve the bad loans they knew they were approving. The ultimate fault lies with the banks being greedy. Without their knowing acceptance of their illegal conduct, the 'liar loans' and NINJA would not have been approved. This was a conspiracy.
A man in Texas was (or is about to be) executed because he discussed a committing robbery with his friend. He backed out and said no. His friend went ahead and committed the robbery in which a murder happened. He is on death row, as the law in Texas is; if you knew about it, you are just as guilty - conspiracy. Put the banksters in jail. Cut deals with the little people in exchange for fines and no jail in order to prosecute the higher-ups.
In the end, a resolution trust company should be set up by the government. Provides stability, a nice revenue income stream for the government - we have a huge debt to pay off. Put the banksters in jail and confiscate their assets - love imminent domain for a public good (all those nice, juicy Gulfstreams, yachts, mansions in Connecticut - to be sold at a nice price). You get the picture.
Even add some fees for all the squatters out there to be fair. Turn those who should not have gotten their homes on a NINJA loan into renters (with the option to buy at a future date if possible). Nothing is for free.
Put the current and previous Administrations and Congresses in jail. That would be nice. The Demo-Republican Party is just as responsible. Donations for special treatment are still bribes, etc.
Close The Fed, and prosecute the owners. Is that law still on the books? The one that proscribes the death penalty for devaluing the currency?
Take the economists and revoke their Ph.D's. What a worthless 'science'. More like voodoo-magician-alchemy science. And ridicule the fuck out of anyone who dares to call Economics a science.
Unfortunately, this is just too sensible for a corrupt America. The banksters have the money and now want the land. Congress wants their bribes and so does The Administration. Some Americans want their homes for free - and may just get it if the banks did not do the paperwork right.
This is a clear case where the banks are screw ups, the homesquatters are deadbeats, and the lawyer is an attention whore. If the banksters forclosed with non-existant or forged docs, they should go to jail. Who held a gun to this couples head making them sign up for a gigantic mortgage? These idiots should lose the house and be the renters they deserve to be. The lawyer should be tarred and feathered.
Unfortunately for you, none of the above will happen.
Peter - clear case?? Have you actually studied the story? The family not only was staying current with their payments, they were making up the payments they had missed. That is not deadbeat. Only after their lawyer determined that the bank did not have standing to evict them did they chose to re-occupy the home. They are not looking for a free home. They are looking to stay in the home they have been making payments on.
If that is truly the case then they have standing to get the forclosure reversed. Regardless, the banksters should go to jail and the laywer gets tarred and feathered.
Fraudclosure is not about whether the banks screwed up or not. Land (or gold depending on your point of view - gold comes from land) is the ultimate store of wealth.
Consider this. A loan for a home and land is originated in dollars by BankX. BankX leverages that loan 30-1 in dollars. The Federal Reserve owns those dollars. BankX owes The Federal Reserve those dollars back. BankX uses the land as collatoral on the loan. The Federal Reserve calls in all loans. BankX does not have the money and forecloses on the land. The land (title) is transferred to The Federal Reserve - who now owns the land through proxies. Banks are proxies for The Federal Reserve to distribute dollars - which in turn is owned and governed by member banks (and others).
This is the largest land-grab in history of mankind outside of Gengis Khan, Alexander, Old European empires (French, British, whatever). Except that there is a problem. Investors. Lost paperwork.
Nothing that cannot be remedied by The Bank of Congress through policy disguised as 'law'.
Neither land nor gold is the
There is no ultimate store of wealth. If you're lucky, you have two arms and two legs. In other words, your health.
The concept of wealth depends on society holding together, promises being kept, and some degree of mutual concern.
Turtling in and shooting everyone who comes near "your property" ("your" is completely dependent on society) is merely a step backwards toward precambrian anarchy.
They obviously owe it to somebody sh!t head they know it and you know it, and by not paying it at this point it isnt hurting the banks its hurting your grandma's pension and the assets backing your life insurance etc...
You may be right in theory, but Gramma's pension and your life insurance aren't going to be worth a fiddler's fuck PDQ anyway.
The banks helped these people steal $300k from foreign pension funds.
take that Iceland, payback for your Viking quest from centuries ago.
BINGO
These salt of the Earth folks are goddamn heroes.
Evil shall destroy Evil
This is the last straw that broke the peasants and made them bite back... when have lost it all they will revolt. The banks have just been that tiny bit extra toooo greedy this time... markets soaring and where is the little guy? Cashing out the pay the gas and food bills that the banksters are making so expensive!
I have seen this movie before, in Pittsburg, Alleghany County, PA. During the Reagan - Carter recession in the early 1980s, there were many bankruptcies and mortgage defaults and sheriff sales. A lot of them were in neighboring Ohio, with farmer's neighbors showing up at farm auctions and shotgun actions being chucked at the cry of "open for bidding". No one bid, not even the bank's attorneys.
So the sheriff of Alleghany county declared an unconstitutional freeze on all mortgage evictions and auctions. Not one bank complained or filed suit. Everyone knew it was in all parties interest to seek a long term peaceful settlement. The banks knew not to push it. So the constitution has been suspended by local sheriffs and the country has prospered after it was done. The key thing is the public needs to know the government is on their side.
If that is no longer the case, then it isn't our government. A workout is possible and if the banks are being jerks, then they will be "overruled". Hey, its a democracy and a republic. And our first-ever Hawaiian POTUS pocket vetoed a bill railroading foreclosure proceedings, just like that Pennsylvania sheriff did. I find that refreshing, in a very limited light of things that have happened.
Aaaawwwwwwweeeeessssooommmmee.....
Finally, my wife might start to think I'm not all that crazy when I told her all this shit was going go blow up...
I miss Balloon boy.
zzzzzzzz
Exactly. This is the "wackiness ensues" part teh Merican public actually sees on the teevee.
Feels like we're on the road to zimbabwe. Check, please.
"Somewhere in Kenya a Village is Missing its Idiot."
How can I short the entire US?
it is not that hard to figure out
Buy and hold physical gold.
+1 krugerand
How is it that they dont owe any money? Maybe they don't even own the house
Here in the post-Lehman twilight zone, possession is most of the law.
Now. How do you actually keep what you think you hold when a mob shows up thinking they can bump you and your claim?
Think about that one, and your answer. There will be a test ... in about 9 months.
+1
That's just it. Stealing seems to simple and so good. Until you think through what happens when everyone else does the same to you!
In other words, your "money" is actually someone else's debt. Be very very careful, if you want a jubilee, what you wish for!
It's not real money any more. There is no gold behind it nor is there any GDP. BB adds more zeros behind a number in a spreadsheet, and gives the balance to a few banks who then buy actual physical things with it, like homes
I'm not stupid. I just do not see the connection any more of fiat money to either productivity, wealth, governance or GDP. The whole thing is unhinged. All the rules are out the window.
If the rule is suddenly, don't pay the bank anymore and buy iPads with the proceeds, then the rule make as much sense to me as BB adding more zeros behind a number in a spreadsheet.
Or ... no sense at all. But I'm not making the rules, I'm suffering through them.