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Meet Danielle And Jim Plus 9: The Squatters Who "Reclaimed" Their Foreclosed Home Over The Weekend
Unfortunately, surreal stories like this will very soon become daily news. As was pointed out yesterday, Simi Valley has just seen the first case of a forced reclamation of a foreclosed home, after Jim and Danielle Earl took their nine (9!) children, ages 9-23, and a locksmith and broke into the six-bedroom house that had been foreclosed upon for lack of payment, and on which the couple owed $880,000! And where would such brilliant advice originate from? Why, the couple's lawyer of course, who will one day be seen as the prophetic visionary who stole the bankers wealth from underneath them and handed it out to America's millions of starving lawyers, one billing sheet at a time: "The move was recommended by their lawyer" as the WSJ suggests. Already in process: millions of cases identical to this one, billions in legal fees, and hundreds of billions in lost market value of associated equity and credit instrument, not to mention very unpleasant days for LPs in "Recovery" funds.
More on the family:
The Earls paid $500,000 for the house in 2001 and then refinanced to pull out cash. They fell behind on their mortgage and at the time of their eviction they owed about $880,000 on a no-interest mortgage.
Investors at Conejo Capital bought the house for $697,000 at a lender’s trustee sale and put $40,000 of work into a remodel, replacing carpeting and appliances, as well as upgrading the kitchen. They flipped it to new buyers for $800,000. Those buyers were supposed to move in this week; those plans are on hold.
The Earls claim that they were working with GRP Financial Services to catch up on payments, but discovered a $25,000 difference between what they believed they owed and what the bank said they owed. They then stopped making payments.
“This is only the beginning of this,” the Earls’ attorney, Michael Pines tells KABC News. “I chose this family because we needed to get back in before the investor and the real-estate broker defrauded a new family by having them move in, which would have created a bigger mess. (The Earls) have done absolutely nothing wrong.”
So there you have it: people who owe $880,000 on their mortgage believe it is their right to reclaim homes. We will avoid any ethical commentary on this, suffice to say that it is the bankers who in the greed and stupidity have managed to dig themselves into what could be a hole so deep not even TARP 2-XXX can dig them out of.
For a clip of this surreal harbinger of things to come, click below.
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Stock index futures will rise tonight. BUY THE CLOSE...SELL THE OPEN....MAKE FREE MONEY $$$$$$$$
Friday 10-15-2010 begins the next round of Fed POMO pumps. The overnight futures will be sufficiently prepared. After all, it has been since 10-06-2010 that they last pumped and the air is beginning to leak out.
so is it ok for me to go break into an empty house with my kids and claim it as mine?
trav7777
"so is it ok for me to go break into an empty house with my kids and claim it as mine?"
Fuck dude that's the history of the US. Europeans seizing "empty" land for their own.
George Copway (Kah-ge-ga-bowh) Ojibwa Chief
1818-1863Gully,
That's the history of humanity - or did the war drum originate after horses and black powder weaponry showed up in the Americas?
my neighbors across the street moved out 4 months ago, (nursing home I think), I am thinking about breaking in changing the locks and renting it out, why the hell not? I will be sure to accept cash only and when the owners find out they'll kick out the renters and no one will be the wiser....what a clusterfuck this country has become.
Lawyers have to make money too. OH GAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I was the new owner, I'd get a bunch of friends/thugs together and execute a citizens arrest for trespassing upon their refusal to leave.
in Kalifornia, trespasser arrest You!
This house isn't clean!
And in the end after the judgement, the short, late aged lawyer will claim "this house (title) is clear..."
And the whole thing will collapse into the swimming pool
Yeah, but then it just follows them to their next place...
.
YOU ROCK! :)
You son of a bitch! You moved the cemetery, but you left the bodies, didn't you? You son of a bitch, you left the bodies and you only moved the headstones! You-only-moved-the-headstones! Why? *Why*?
Lets not forget that it was the Banks own greed induced CDO/MBS/CDS Ponzi scheme that inflated the price up to 850k. The Banks then waived the carrot under their noses just like every other HELOC offer that was rampant back in 2006. If the banks and the FED had not overinflated the market for their own benefit, these people may have never been put into this situation.
Sorry to have to say this but -- Bullshit! No Bank forced these people to buy this house. What is it about adjustable rate mortgage did these peopel and many otehrs not understand. I am really tired of hearing about how these people were taken advantage of. What ever happened to personal responsibility?
I say if the banks can print money out of thin air, then people should be able to pull their title deed in kind! Expect more to come.
Congress needs to stay the f@ck out of this. Or we'll end up even deeper into corporate feudalism.
Hundreds if not thousands of years of property law and the courts will sort this out. Ugly, messy, slow but ultimately okay.
Well clearly the one thing they didn't buy with the cash they pulled out of the house: BIRTH CONTROL (and/or a brain, but i digress).
Outside of the Kennedy's who the fuck has 9 kids?
Pikers.
-The Duggars
9 kids -- It just proves that CASH is the only thing that got pulled out in that house.
[insert rimshot]
Heyyyooooh.
winning comment, ha..
6 of the "kids" were adopted, but hey guys, don't let any facts get in the way of yer jokes & outrage. . .
Not liking the general feel of it
Cracks in the rule of law showing and starting to break down; more individual measures needed sooner
[ Home Sweet Home ]
That attorney needs to be put in jail along with Danielle and Jim plus 9.
If this goes bad, and I have a feeling it will, I could see him getting disbarred.
shushup
"That attorney needs to be put in jail along with Danielle and Jim plus 9."
Well after their fifteen minutes of fame and maybe reality show.
I'm buying a mossberg 12 ga this weekend. need more food for my closet.
Get a Remington 870 express, mossberg sucks.
(S)He's right. Can't put a pistol grip on a Mossy and still reach the safety in tactical index. Saiga 12, or Benelli M2.
BS buy a Mossberg SPX930 - badass
all of this terrible news today and the obvious bankruptsy of the banks and the dow is only down 30 - it's a wonderful world.
If you haven't seen the movie "Idiocracy", go watch it...this reminds me of that movie.
Jail the locksmith!
Update: This jerk-off attorney was arrested in Newport Beach for the same BS!
http://www.ocregister.com/news/pines-271058-home-foreclosure.html?pic=1
What do you call it when the assassin calls the assassin an assassin? - Colonel Kurtz
crossfire?
So now that these deadbeats have stuck it to their dipshit bankers...what does that mean? Do they have 100% equity in this McMansion now? Can they sell it tomorrow and pocket all the cash? If they don't owe $800k to the bank who locked them out does that mean they don't owe a penny to anybody (besides their lawyer)?
Now US residential real estate has even more problems than it did 24hrs. ago.
As someone who has lived well below his means, and who has never taken advantage of the "system", I find this appalling and atrocious. Not only do I consider the actions of the Earls immoral and unethical, but also illegal. They should be thrown in jail for theft. And yes, it is theft. They are basically stealing from the current and real owners of the home.
I don't know about theft, but certainly breaking and entering, trespassing, vandalism, etc. And in civil court they will be liable for any damage to the property, wear and tear, and incurred living costs by the family who is supposed to living there.
I wonder if the rightful owners are going to make their first payment on a house someone else is squatting in indefinitely?
This is what happens when criminals take over a society. The bankers get free money from the taxpayers, the deadbeats get free housing, the lawyers get legal fees, and anyone who is honest and plays by the rules gets f&$k3d.
Enjoy your third world status America. You are so damn close to becoming f&$king Zimbabwe its not even funny anymore. All it takes is for good men to do nothing (if any good men exist anymore).
In this day and age, an entrepreneur in America is an absolute fool. Not worth the risks anymore.
This is why the TPTB hate gays. Cause they would teach this bitch how to give a good blowjob and how to enjoy anal.
wtf?
If I were the new owner (my name was on the title). I would tell the police to remove those people freakin' NOW. If the Earl's want to go to court and try to get my name back off the title they can fly at it, but whoever has their name on the title should be in the house and the police should see to it.
All true, except that you are forgetting it is occurring in California. The new owners are probably getting exactly what they voted for.
California. Where those kids will get called pikers at school, and the same lawyer will get to sue the State and school district for not protecting the poor little bastards from hate crimes. Just that family, alone, probably comes close to making it a class action.
It's all about the emotion. No way the new owner is gonna win with (potential suffering x 9) + media circus.
So long as he's not running for office, he doesn't have to care. They moved from somewhere - they can just move back.
Does anyone actually have the title?
+1 Trillion
I have access to the actual number of foreclosures (when the document is filed with the county of the bank taking possession). You have to keep in mind that California and Florida combined are going to account for about 40% of all foreclosures nationwide.
Posession is 9/10th of the law. If they were defrauded, and let others move in, they lost their case. If they "win", they are probably going to end up paying for the house (maybe they are hoping less).
I prefer the Lennonist variant: "Possession is nine-tenths of the Problem."
I'm gonna get their names and see if they'll be my Facebook friend.
HA. HA. HA
TMZ reports -
Octomom has just rewritten decades of foreclosure law ... claiming on the Kevin & Bean show this AM that the guy who the holds the note on her home has no claim against her ... and she ain't goin' anywhere.
http://www.tmz.com/2010/10/14/octomom-nadya-suleman-amer-haddadin-kevin-and-bean-radio-interview/
The Earl's family motto, 'squat in it like you stole it'.
The mess began, according to Danielle Earl, when she discovered a discrepancy between what she thought she owed in mortgage payments ($10,000) and what the bank claimed was due ($25,000). Earl said she made a $12,500 payment.
"After I made the payment, they said I owed $25,000," she said.
So Earl did some research and learned the note on the property was being assigned from lender to lender with what she believed were falsified documents, so she decided to stop making payments "because they clearly didn't want us to catch up," she said.
Sorry - but anyone who falls 18 months behind on their payment and owes that much - deserves to get the boot. Yes - they were trying to work with the ban - I can hear it now. "We want to work with you Mr. Banker - we have no money to pay so how can we work this out? Excuse me Please - I have to run now to take my wife to a class that teaches her how to keep her panties on since she has kids ranging from 3 - 23 - and probably can't wait to have another one. Fuck This Shit - people like this need to be shot!
c'mon gunsmoke get mad
get madder!! get maddddeeerrr!!! get mmmmmaaaaaaadddddeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrr
grab the pistol it's quicker.
Yep - you're probably right mogul - why should anyone really get mad about something like this. Reading many of the comments on this thread just re enforce in my mind just how far this country has decayed in my lifetime. Believe it or not - there was a time when this sort of thing would have brought so much shame upon the people who are doing this - that they probably would have considered suicide. But Not today Baby - it is all the Greedy Bankers Fault!
I dunno - I guess in my srcewed up world - someone who owes 880K on a no interst loan - for a house that they originally bought for 500K - but refiananced to pull the money out of the house and spend it - a family that has fucking 9 kids ages 3 - 23 still living at home - a family that I would bet my bottom dollar is on just about every public "Entitlement" program the government offers - and now feel they are Entitled to steal a house because of some technicality - Pretty much Says Something About That Person! It says they are fucking SCUM! The problem with America today is that there are a LOT of people who feel the same as these people do. I am Entitled to have it ALL - let the poor bastard who works his ass off pay for it! I made stupid decisions all my life - but I was not afforded the "Opportunity"!!
must watch
http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2010/10/14/n_foreclosure_lawyer_sig.cnnmoney/
9 kids and $880,000 in the hole. Boy, life doesn't get better than this and just in time for Christmas!
Wow - so you can legally purchase a house, fix it up, then have the previous owners reclaim it? Truly a mess....
Hope that investor bought title insurance. He has good law suit against the bank though.
Let's see
9 kids
failed mortgage
house as ATM
Lawyer
Dumbass banksters
Dumbass Husband
Yup the fireworks are gonna be awesome. I can;t wait for the Zombies to start eating each other. WOW is this ginna be good.
Look down your street - you'l probably see the hoards of fuckin dumbasses catching on that they too can break into and squat.
I luv it - The banksters are gonna get theirs in ways none of us thought of.
S weeet
I assume this is exactly the type of situation that Maxine Waters is fighting for....."loss mitigation"!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_mi1tH2opA
this is crap...
first.....9 kids and a milliion $ home, come on.
you don't stop making payments because you have a difference witht he bank. the new owners should kick them to the curb.
God this is funny.
Gold to $1700.
+1
Soooo, this is how the world looks when viewed through navel lint?
Jeebus.
+10
The Earl's are complete fucking imbeciles. I have no regards for someone that deeply in the hole. Send them off to the nearest tent city.
buy moving company stocks
there is gonna be a monster fuckin bubble in the zomby moving
PSA Public Storage
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=PSA:US
LOL
This is a george romero special announcement!!!
I was kidding!!
Zombies aren't real, but in true American spirit we created a fleet of the fuckers.
Look Mommie! New carpeting and everything! Isn't America Great!
was it shakespeare that had a suggestion for firing your lawyer? just trying to remember
Remove That bitch's face from the article. I can't stand the sight of her.
First off--I'm not declaring sympathy for people who didn't make their mortgage payments.
<BUT>
That doesn't mean the servicing bank gets to foreclose without the mortgage note. Is there still the Rule of Law in this fucking country? Just because someone is going to have to work a little to get that house properly is no excuse to let the servicing bank throw their dick around in court even though they have no standing.
No shortcuts in the law--I'm praying there are some state judges who won't be bossed around.
That IS the question, isn't it?
The crux of the biscuit, as it were.
This captures the situation accurately
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnkefjCES-4
Hmm, they lived there 9 years right and it was an interest free mortgage? That means they must have had a savings plan underlying it to pay the capital off and could have used it to...
oh maybe not, maybe they are just FUCKING STUPID.
An interest free mortgage with no endowment plan is just fucking renting you dumb shits.
Perhaps a solution for dumb fuck people like this is Sharia mortgages. You ask for a loan, they calculate it plus interest and you pay it off over years as rent until they give you the deed. The bank always owns the house until its paid off.
I'd take Islamic Banking any day over the Fed
You DO realize there is a lot of baggage with that.
Just the banking, not the burkhas!
Nothing wrong here, they're just "Settlers".
What? This house is in Palestine?
Crap. Dup.
who's gonna bail the locksmith out for breaking into a foreclosed upon home?
I'd say that isn't good precedent either. Can we all get a locksmith and meet at Lloyd Blankies home and say we's a havin' a family reunion and couldn't get in?
Color of Title
They will be gone in less than 60 days. The bank forecloses, new buyer, remodel, and then resold to new party. Unless they can show some non-arm's length transaction, the current title holder (with insurance) will file an unlawful detainer and the sheriff will get them out soon. All they did was trade their rent payment for attorney fees. But makes you think. If you, the wife and nine kids were out on the street, what would you do? If I was the 23 year old I would be down at the recruiter's office.
eventually the locksmith will be the scapegoat
I'm gonna get me one of them there foooorrrccclllllooosssssrs
Ma, get your coat
quick invest in locksmiths, there's gonna be a run on them.
As I mentioned in another thread, last year, we received a summary of our mortgage payment history in the mail and there was a $25 unpaid late fee listed among the transactions from 2007. We have always paid on time and we had never received any such late notice in 2007. So, we called and asked what the deal was with this incorrect late fee showing up and they say, “Sorry our records don't go back that far, so we'll just remove that charge.”
It really makes you wonder. If your bank were to "accidentally" change the amount you owe in their computer system, and didn't tell you, how would you find out? How many years of interest and penalties might they tack on? Could you prove they were wrong? Could you produce all your cancelled checks going back to the time you started paying the loan to show that every payment was on time? Just asking...
We are all fucked. Guns and Gold Bitches!!!
aaaaahh
dont ya luv the smell of chaos in the morning?
For my birthday my daughter got me this.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/535441.The_Zombie_Survival_Guide
Now I have to read it !!!
That gurl has potential, prescient almost I'd say. She's got Roubini beat. Pass on thanks for our next great read
LOL
Fight Club - Tyler Durden quote:
"Don't fuck with us."
Locksmiths, moving companies,and lawyers
These are the new transports. Go get em boys. The meltup begins today
charles smith...
http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html
"It's decision time, citizens. Either the banks/Central State "win" and we are a kleptocracy/ "banana republic," or they lose and the U.S. mortgage/ banking sector implodes and is either formally socialized (i.e. owned lock, stock and barrel by the Central State) or rebuilt from scratch without big banks, Federal guarantees and the Fed's incestuous interventions."
Oh, I hate big decisions. But I like bananas, yeah, lets go with the banana one.
Seriously, was just out stacking firewood and it felt very rational and comforting after reading about all the insanity lately. Might be a long winter.
I'm starting to really wish I had a huge mortgage to default on. Gotta play to win.
A Proposal from a non-economist (undoubtedly not in the cards and certainly contrary to the "we gotta re-inflate housing prices" Fed mentality):
1. Re-price ALL commercial and residential Real Estate to a currently realistic price (essentially in historical relationship to market rents.
2. Allow ALL property owners with mortgages to reset at these new levels. (no special break for just those in default)...
3. Grant those with paid-off mortgages a tax-rebate or some other break to allow an equal benefit to those who would otherwise not during this process.
4. Allow those in default who COULD make the payment on the new mortgages to go that route.
5. Allow those who couldn't to rent at fair market rates at least until a buyer comes along.
6. Let the banks go bankrupt since they already are... and let the new now-viable mortgages be sold to regular citizens via something like in WWII with Freedom bonds or something (since these are now realistic mortgages they should be decent investments)
7. End the Fed and restore this function to its Constitutional origins.
This is just a top-of-my-head idea... I'm not claiming some authority so if people want to knock the idea apart that's fine... I'm not some idealogue... just trying to be as fair as possible to as many as possible.
And yes, I'm sure this would be very upsetting to all kinds of paradigms and status-quos. But they're not working so well right now anyway.
Duplicate comment deleted
Additional information from Housing Watch...
…"When we were evicted we went to the Extended Stay America because they were the only hotel around that would let us have that many children, and a dog and two cats," Danielle Earl, 44, told HousingWatch. "We split up into two hotel rooms for a month." She is the part owner of a medical devices company and her husband is a stay-at-home dad. After their hotel stay they moved to a short-term rental, but their credit issues would keep them from obtaining a property that would permanently suit their needs, she said
…Danielle Earl (pictured) says that she and her husband have been foster parents to 43 children over the years and they currently home-school most of their school-age children (six of whom are adopted). So she admits that the walls were probably a bit scuffed and in need of a paint job, and some of the carpet was worn. But, she says, she and her family only had a day to collect their things and have movers haul it away, so it's not like they were leaving the home in a show-ready state.
…The Earls, who admit to having fallen behind on their mortgage at one point due to a loss of income in Danielle’s business, say that they were working with the bank to catch up on their payments. However, she says, whenever they made a payment it was not being reflected on statements, even a $12,500 catch-up payment was not credited to the balance due. Ultimately, there was a $25,000 discrepancy between what they thought they still owed in arrears and what the bank said they owed.
… The Earls question who owns the loan, as the foreclosure documents list GRP Financial Services, but there have been several lenders listed in the past few years. The original lender was Washington Mutual Bank, which became JPMorgan Chase after the banks merged. The loan went to Bank of America on the same day that Chase sent the homeowners a notice of default. The Earls argue that Chase never properly assumed the loan and thus did not have the right to sell it off. And in turn, the investors, Conejo Capital Partners, did not properly purchase the property either.
http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/10/12/evicted-family-breaks-in-to-own-home/20
I've posted your information at the part 2 thread.
probably won't stop the hysteria, but there ya go - thanks for posting this JR.
You guys ever watch the movie Fight Club?
Cuz it's funny- what Tyler Durden was trying to do was to erase the debt record....
Kind of ironic, given some of the comments here.
Just scroll this page and ask yourself whether the same anger from both "sides" was stirred up by any of the far more significant examples of corporate theft we've witnessed in Enron, Worldcom, Goldman, etc.
Also, ask yourself why there are no Tea Party rallies demanding that the rule of law apply to foreclosures? What about the sanctity of contracts? And where were those "states rights" conservatives when Congress on a voice vote tried last week to Federlize the admissibility of notarized documents in strictly state lawsuits? Oh, and regardless of the parents' responsibility, I haven't yet seen any of the Family Values Christian Coalition spokespeople express any sympathy at all for the kids' plight.
Sorry, people, but the two parties are merely a Kabuki dance that we join by following whoever's got the best moves. When the issue is taxpayer bailouts, the Repubs have the best moves. But now that the issue is unlawful evictions, its the Dems' turn to demogogue the issue. C'est la vie!
Perhaps you haven't been around very long, but you may want to scroll through the 20-odd months of ZH articles, in which you will find---and I am just guessing---a few hundred thousand comments spewing bile toward GS, AIG, and all the other players in this farce. ZH did not exist when Enron and Worldcom were supposedly ongoing concerns, but I have to believe they would have gotten their share of venom. Heck, there have probably been a hundred threats against Lloyd Blankfein's life here, though obviously most written out of frustration.
What you are seeing now, I suspect, is that many people are just sick and tired of EVERYBODY justifying their god-given right to fleece everybody else and get something they don't deserve. Maybe that frustration clouds people's judgement if and when a truly innocent party gets shafted and their story posted here. Maybe this family is without blame, but the court of public opinion is still out on that. The fact that they used their home as an ATM to the tune of $380K does not win them much sysmpathy, even if "everybody else was doing it".
Frankly, the whole thing is surreal. I fully expect Conejo Capital to hire a shill to go pick up this family and take them to All-You-Can-Eat Shrimp Night at Red Lobster, and while they're out, change the locks again and have the new buyers and a couple of pit bulls move in. After that it becomes Reality TV and America gets to vote out the least deserving party.
Incidentally, I just transitted JFK and I saw Diogenes with his lamp in the waiting lounge, giving up his eternal search within the boundaries of the US.
Now the whole family can afford to get matching tattoos and nose rings.
the US looks everyday more and more like Venezuela, where we have professional property "invaders". Only question is who will be USA's Chavez.
Jessica6: Don't worry. You'll have another chance at those condo's in warm locations! Just bide your time.
This is viral. I was supposed to close on my house yesterday at 3:00 p.m., CST. The TITLE COMPANY called off my closing (I was seller) to "examine" the documents. Today, they are on "hold" status until further notice. No previous owners, I BUILT THE HOUSE!! I have already moved to a house that I BOUGHT IN FORECLOSURE!! WTF? Went thru Katrina and GoM, taking a hit on the sale, and I still can't sell my house. The people that bought my house are threatening to sue the title company (they moved from another state and staying in a local hotel-their mover has arrived and they had to pay an extra $1,500 to offload the truck in the area's only storage center.
Now, I suppose I will be making BOTH payments? Both taxes and insurance? The house I sold insurance premiums will be 300% (now vacant) of what the old premiums were. And..some of you think this is fair?
We need a nationalized title insurance company to begin the examination of every property in the U.S.
Oh there'll be a national government-run title insurance company, real soon now.
Wonder whether they'll side with TBTF banks or the little guy?
Yeah, I wonder.
Why didn't you let them move in early and pay rent until the closing gets finalized? I bought a house but had to be out of my old place before closing and was able to move in early and paid rent for that time. I don't understand why you would make them pay inflated hotel prices and store their stuff if you are already moved out anyway.
An $880,000 house in Simi Valley? Are you kidding me? Remove a damn zero......
I agree with some that this is morally not right. Essentially they got a 500,000 dollar mortgage and then on top of that pulled out 300,000 dollars more and then couldn't afford it because of financial hardship. Then since they couldn't afford a place for 2 adults and 9 kids, they take the lawyer advice and break back into their foreclosed place. But one side of me says right on for them to do this. This game of responsibility to your contractual agreements and such seems to work only one way, businesses always break promises and contracts with their own people and govt. also. The banks took trillions of tax payers money to get bailed out (it would have been cheaper to buy back all the bad mortgages) and we still have the problem.
People need a bailout also, since we did our part as bush and others have said to help this consumer economy they wanted us to do. At least allow us to get rid of our debt, give a big reset. The banks have dug themselves a hole, but what I like to say is that the banks and the govt. officials have spun a web so intricate that it has even ensnared the spider bankers itself.
"At least allow us to get rid of our debt, give a big reset."
And for those us who did not overspend and have no debt? Here's an idea. Figure the average that a typical American's debt represents of their net worth or income, then give each un-indebted American that equivalent of their net worth. Seems fair.
In general it is the "right thing", this specific case makes me want to puke.
OMG! It's like the Manson family all over again! Exercising their legal right to reclaim their home from the bankers who tried to defraud them and providing a place to live for their children... it makes me sick!
Anybody who doesn't respect the free market should be put in a prison camp so they can see what socialism is really like, that'll learn 'em.
9 fucking kids...put their lazy asses to work isn't that why they had them in the first place? Or maybe it's because they are a fundamentalist and don't believe in birth control.
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