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Meet The Squatters: Here Are The Millions Of Americans Who Live Mortgage-Free For Up To 5 Years And Counting
The topic of Americans living mortgage-free in foreclosed homes on which banks do not have proper titles is nothing new - in fact we are surprised that there isn't a robosignature app for that...yet. Neither is the fact that this ongoing reverse capital transfer provides as much as $50 billion in "rental" income for those same squatters. And while the ethical arguments for strategically defaulting on one's mortgage can get very heated on both sides, one thing is certain: the ongoing foreclosure crisis is creating a new subclass of "entitled" people, who certainly enjoy living on the back of the banks, while not paying one cent, and not vacating the premises. According to a new article by CNNMoney, some of the excesses observed within this latest demonstration of unearned entitlement are truly staggering. To wit: "Charles and Jill Segal have not made a mortgage payment in nearly five years -- but they continue to live in their five-bedroom West Palm Beach, Fla. home....Lynn, from St. Petersburg, Fla., has been living without paying for three years....In Thousand Oaks, Calif., an actor has missed 30 payments, and still, he has not lost his home...." In other words, what were once isolated incidents are becoming an epidemic, and like it or not, are creating a massive capital shortfall in bank balance sheets (after all "assets" are supposed to generate cash in most cases), which will likely involve yet another broad taxpayer bailout of these same banks that now have no recourse to do much if anything to evict these same squatters who instead of paying their mortgage (or rent), prefer to purchase trinkets and gizmos. "Some 4.2 million mortgage borrowers are either seriously delinquent or
have had their cases referred to lawyers to pursue foreclosure auctions,
according to LPS Applied Analytics. Of those, two-thirds have made no
payments at all for at least a year, and nearly one-third have gone more
than two years."
The specifics, to anyone who has been following this festering issue which threatens to create even further class resentment, are well known:
These cases can go on and on. Nationwide, it takes an average of 565 days to foreclose on borrowers in default from their first missed payments to the final auction. In New York, the average is 800 days and in Florida, where the "robo-signing" issue is particularly combative, it's 807.
If they want to fight evictions hard, borrowers can remain in their homes even longer while their cases are being worked through.
The Segals have been doing that -- in court. They bought their home in 2003 with an adjustable rate mortgage. After a few years, their monthly payments tripled to $3,000, just as their home-inspection business was cratering.
The Segals want the bank to modify the mortgage so payments are affordable, and they think the court will agree that their lender put them into a toxic loan.
Surely, the Segals signed the dotted line under the gun:
"The evidence will show that we were defrauded," said Jill Segal.
Well, with no downside, and just an already worthless credit rating as the opportunity cost, everyone is rapidly realizing that strategic defaults are the way to go:
If they lose, of course, they'll finally have to leave. And, unfortunately, more than 50 months of missed mortgage payments hasn't translated into big savings.
"It's very hard to save," said Jill Segal. "Our company's billing is 90% off and my husband is only working about four days a week."
Lynn, who didn't want her last name used, purchased a two-bedroom on Tampa Bay in 1998 for $135,000.
As the waterfront property's value skyrocketed, eventually reaching $750,000, she refinanced twice (once to expand a business), and took out a second mortgage. She now owes more than $600,000 on the home, which is worth only $235,000.
Living in this foreclosure limbo is "Hell," Lynn said. "I feel like I'm locked in a box. I work for a financial organization and if this came out, it could cost me my job."
And why not? With banks not having to face the consequences of massive failure, why should deadbeats? Especially when there are such sensitive issues to consider as whether the next place one lives, the one where one will actually have to pay for a roof, has a favorable pet policy:
She's still hoping to negotiate the loan. In the meantime, small things
bother her. "A couple years ago, I lost my dog and I can't decide on
getting a new one," she said. If she has to move, she can't be sure
she'll go somewhere that allows pets.
In the meantime stories such as this one are rapidly becoming the new morality drama:
Ruben Martinez, a Staten Island, N.Y., man trapped in a particularly bad adjustable rate mortgage, stopped paying more than three years ago. His attorney, Robert Brown, has managed to stave off one foreclosure.
Martinez, still struggling to find work, has little in savings despite the missed payments. He's earning some income as a pastor and consulting for a non-profit family counseling organization.
"There's pressure on me every day," he said. "I have a wife, three daughters and two grandchildren. Where are we going to live?" To top of page
For now there has not been much dissent with this type of behavior. However, when banks openly turn the tables and make it all too clear that they have absolutely underreserved for this kind of behavior and will very soon need a TARP 2.0, funded by everyone else, but certainly not the squatters, according to whom they dont' have two nickels to rub together, the question will be: will the general population, and here we reference the increasingly more endangered middle class, blame the banks again... or will it turn on itself?
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You have it right.
The woman bought a house for $135K, now worth $235K after 13 yrs. She had shelter plus a gain. Except that she took tax free cash out of the property for $450K and spent it. Her excuse now is that she was cheated by a bank? Hell, just give them the money back and they'll call it all off. The forgiveness of debt that will happen with the final move out will not be income either.
Her actions, along with a large number of similar deals, is only being paid for by those who were prudent. I've got no sympathy for any of them. Move her into a dog house near a creek for the water supply.
'Trav7777', lackey of the Banker-Gangsters, has NO PROBLEM with those parasitic charlatans collecting money for a house on which they have no legitimate, legal claim.
He probably just refinanced - which fixed the banks foreclosure problem. Now he's angry at himself.
And that's another thing - if the bank wants you to refinance that will give them a chance to leave MERS and the loan securitazation issues and restore their right to foreclose. Be very careful before you do that.
Lynne is a disgraceful clown. F her.
No way, she's obviously meant to work in banking, she just hasn't figured out how to get other people to pay her for that nonsense yet.
Just another friendly kick in the nuts for those of us who live up to our financial obligations!
Maybe Geithner can give me a few tips on my tax bill.
Don't look now, but the crash is back underway.
I'm about to the point to cancel my bank deposits and just sit on cash. They charge for checks, for debit use, for balance under $15,000, etc. Tons of fees to have access to my money. just use cash and pay for bills that way, will be cheaper and I will know where it is. Banks will use any way possible to separate us from our money. Also, my parents paid off their house, and they did NOT receive their original note back. They received a 1 page photo of some type of stamp that was completely illegible. Go ahead and keep paying your house note, in 20 years it may be worth what you paid for it, which means you'll only owe about $15,000 to move out by the time fees and inspections are performed. Thats a great deal!
Good idea, but think about hedging inflation too.
Dear Tyler,
The Mortgage Banker's Association did a strategic default on its own headquarters building, as reported here on ZH. Surely that is the end of their standing to to complain, and yours to sneer, when anyone else does it to them.
6000 sq.ft., 4 bath, 5 bed, 4 car g.. keep on rockin in the free world.
It has never been complicated to me.
I signed the mortgage. No one put a gun to my head. I did it of my own free will. So I will continue to pay the mortgage.
Perhaps I am a chump, and should stop paying because I could get away with it. But I come back, again and again, to the fact that I freely decided, as an adult, to take on this obligation. All my life, when I have done such a thing, I have done my utmost to do what I agreed to do. My father was this way, I am this way, and I can't seem to be any other way.
Maybe this makes me the perfect patsy. But the flip side is that my conscience does not bother me - if there is a sleazy party in this transaction, it won't be me.
No, you're not a chump. Each makes his own decisions.
But you should verify the bank can give you clear title once the loan is paid off if your mortgage/refi was after about 2001. It's only prudent and won't hurt to "make sure".
Hey, whaddaya know, you and I agree on something, he's not a chump.
However, YOU are.
The closing agent/title company/lender for the buyer is going to make sure that all mortgages/liens of record are extinguished... what you're referring to is an unrecorded lien, some type of equitable lien, by some distant party without privity of contract. What you are referring to, legally, appears to be a sky hook from the other side's free throw line. You telling me that a scandinavian municipality is going to walk into BFE court and allege that it has a valid lien to a property that has been paid off years earlier by a yokel? Maybe you have a hypertechnical argument, but realistically speaking, you're skyhooking it (especially when said purported lienholder has sat on its hands all this time and never notified you of its acquisition of the lien nor bothered to file the same). [their only hope is for putbacks onto the assholes that sold them toxic securities].
I'm not putting it out of the realm of possibility... in fact, I've offered to take on whatever case a fellow ZHer wants to throw my way in this regard for a pilot case in my state... but, at present, I'm having a hard time finding any damages or anything that would be worth my time (remember, punitives are limited by compensatory damages).
i am glad you are proud to be a chump, otherwise i would have felt sorry for you
You make your decisions and live with the results. Everybody does.
But then, nobody put a gun to the bankster's head to sign a mortgage that has "walking away" as an option (just for broader perspective, the "walking away" option doesn't exist in most of Europe ... there you continue to carry the leftover of your debt after the house was sold).
You certainly aren't the sleazy party, and if you get foreclosed and booted out and end up homeless, it'll be very comforting to know you had done the honorable thing.
No, you're an honorable man in an nation that increasingly seems to have lost that concept. When someone buys something, they agree to that price and its a risk that it may go up or down. The risk, of course, is no one else's except their own. If you can pay, then you can stay and eventually be mortgage free. If not, then you should expect to have it foreclosed upon. Its this behavior of not wanting to accept the lion's share of responsibility of our own actions which is a growing decay to our liberties as well. Our actions set the standard for our children....then we wonder why our children, as a generation, seem to see nothing as their fault.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts...they are very similiar to my own. It seems to be going out of fashion though.
I am tired of the "less than moral" shoutouts from persons obviously stupid enough to pay cash for a property. If you didn't leverage up when everybody saw this coming, you are a stupid shithead dumbass, period. Would you ride a stock down to zero? Then you are RobotTrader! I've got 8 f/c's on my street, do you expect me to row the sinking ship myself? Leverage up. Don't listen to the "no debt going foward" nonsense. Become a knowing participant in the greatest credit writedown of all time. You won't have to wait long. Go out and buy properties using the 1/100 valuation ratio using Contracts for Deeds. Leverage up any asset you can beg, borrow, or steal.
we remaining productive people need to cut off _all_ the parasites, large and small. deadbeats scamming the system, riding the cheap seats in the gravy train, as well as the TBTF bailout queens driving that mother, both need to burn.
And..just what do you do, pray tell, that is so damn productive on a Friday afternoon at 2:00.You're not building anything, or producing anything, or contributing anything. Moron. How do you equate persons that want an honest reset with non-productive people. I know the pharmacist, lawyer, and dentist on my street, all in f/c, are defaulting. Hey, no more stumping, you're gonna lose your money, that's ok with me.
fuck off, in my time zone it's 8 pm and i am still working.
fine, default, let them take the worthless property, buy it back at auction for 5 cents on the dollar.. but this article is about people reaching for one more version of the something-for-nothing dream.
an "Honest" reset? SURE THING, bitch, so long as you gave those of us who aren't underwater and weren't DIPSHITS using our houses as fucking ATMs to buy stupid road barge SUVs the same bennies that you get from this "honest" reset.
All you fucks want is more free money to replace your ATM house.
All the people on your street should be evicted. They ALREADY GOT the benefit of all those house ATM dollars to pad their lavish lifestyles. So fuck you AND them. No more benefits for people like you.
Should be evicted by whom, Banker-Gangster?
By you! By Jamie Dimon?
How does it feel to be a running dog for White Capital?
A running dog for white capital? What the fuck is that?
Do you mean "trying to avoid getting ass raped by the entitled, nanny state ninnies?" I'm not sure this is an objectionable offense...
What people seem to miss in all of the commotion is that the deadbeats are on the same side as the unions, banks, and government employees... how can this be? ME ON THE SAME SIDE AS BANKS!?!?!? Yes... you steal money from me for your entitlements that you vote, en masse, to give yourself.
You want to know the running dogs of white capital? How bout the poor ninnies that need nannying...
If I pay my mortgage, and the banks does not hold proper title, it could be constructed that my money is
being used to support the existing system of fraud.
Yep... and by this logic if you also: pay your taxes, purchase gas, purchase any products with sales tax, in general comply with the law, contribute to politicians, send your children to school, watch mainstream media to be informed (as opposed to solely for entertainment purposes, i.e. CNBC), etc.
In fact, why don't you just cut out the middle man and say that we're all guilty of supporting the system through the FED's/Congress' money policy (no need to get into a semantical debate over monetary/fiscal policy) since all of our livelihoods and standard of living has been obtained through it (and its derivatives, e.g. the war machine)?
AND FOR THE FUCKING LOVE OF GOD, THE ASSHOLE MAKING THE PAYMENTS EVERY MONTH HOLDS THE TITLE............ some other clown has a lien on the property.
Nice rant. I can't win an argument w/you, and should not have tried.
However, until the "other clown" shows up and proves his lien, I'm not paying.
You are a fucking deadbeat. Did you borrow money from somebody, did you you asshole? Or did you buy the house for cash.
Until someone proves his "lien", you are not paying, but you bought the house by borrowing money from somebody right. Another prick who thinks he can stay in his house while not paying anything to anybody.
I have nothing to justify to you asshole. Nothing. Do you own my note? Nope. Then STFU.
"I'm buying derivatives with government welfare. I am irreplaceable."
I think it is only a matter of time. They will use S.W.A.T. teams for evictions. The Chinese will demand it since they are the legal owners of all these houses.
for anyone who used a MEW vehicle and is now underwater, FUCK YOU. SWAT go get them. Throw them out.
They already got their benefits.
For those who were unlucky at their ponzi timing and did not MEW, then we can talk resets and writedowns. All the rest can fuck off.
Strategic defaulters should be removed. Sell the fucking houses; let the market clear. Imprison the bankers, fold up the banks. This is the honest solution and honest answer.
Let the people who saved money become landlords...some reward for their behavior. Our society has done nothing but reward dishonesty and shit for decades and that is why our society IS shit
I agree, no double standards, people that pay their mortgage on time are becomming extinct. I am going to spank myself when i go home for paying my mortgage, that is really naughty of me.
odd, i agree completely with trav7777.
the crash must be near.
+1
+1
Trav is right- Fuck the sponge bag entitled leeches. Let them know shame.
+2
The banks are the only ones that deserve a "swat team"! Problem is they own the swat teams:)
Tuco
I too agree with you Trav.
Hard to believe that trav7777 got junked on this comment. Shows you how fucked up some people are here.
SWAT the people out of the houses who aren't paying, and SWAT the fucking bankers too.
"Our society has done nothing but reward dishonesty and shit for decades and that is why our society IS shit"
A great comment and the true center of the issue.
An idiot like you has no idea what a free society is and how it operates. We don't send SWAT after families who don't pay a mortgage you fucking piece of shit.
What shithole country are you from? Cause it ain't America.
Its so obvious that you just want a free house, you smell a free meal and you are attempting to dig your freeloading heals in "its a matter of legal principle that i retain this house with out exchanging fair value", Bollocks, you're an opportunist hypocrite. You don’t give a fuck about a free society boy, all you care about is filling your boots, just another rat in the race, you would sit and watch it all burn if you could come out on top, THATS THE TRUTH OF IT, and you’re not fooling anyone. If you think the courts are going to back halfwits like you en masse, you better start packing your shit now kid. Moreover, if you think the courts are going to watch a family pay a mortgage over 20 years, only for a bank to say they still own the house because of a legal hiccup over documents? it’s a stupid cheap argument for your stupid cause - pay or get the fuck out.
And your statement about me is completely wrong.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MY SITUATION. NOTHING.
IDIOT.
My stab at the edifice WB would be the need for Fall street to maintain higher assessment values, especially as each town, city and state struggle and demand from the county assessors to keep some sort of asset valuation =(bond rating) elevated. Every town/city has a valuation placed upon it for the backstop of muni issuance. This of course ties into the proverbial AAA bond rating, but of course we all know that 99% of all states and towns are wallowing in the debt trash dumpster. Example is my small town that issued 2.2 million in sewage bonds in 2005 and through their BBB rating ended up (becuase the city council doesnt know flip about true cost's) has now got a major problem , as over 1 million in interest is due through 2014 and we have not even addressed a single principle payment . Mark to market would seal the coffin.
man following the law with papaer work is such a bitch, and putting people in loans they can't afford for the generation of big upfront fees is such easy money.
I think the answer is that banks should be allowed to employ blackwater guards as hit squads and just take these folks out. (just kidding)
these people are doing the exactly logical thing, and if the banks forclose they have to make the loss on their papers. so don't think the banks aren't aware how they can avoid the loss either.
The real, and perhaps only, way to value a bank nowadays is to track the number of final judgments they are posting on public record. If bank A is posting more f/j's than bank B, are they worth more or less than bank B? Hmmm? Is the value of standing judgment worth more than holding shadow inventory that is depreciating? You just got an example of a bank boardoom question. Anybody want to take a stab at the answer?
Bank Error in Your Favor! Collect a Free House!
http://unhindered.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/bank_error_in_your...
Truly a quandry when it comes to the morality and function of defaulting on a home loan. One, it is a mockery of the vast majority of American home owners who dilligently pay their mortgages, tightening their belts each month and cutting back on discretionary spending, but on the other it exposes the rot that is the industry. Like a once great forest that has become diseased, sometimes the only way to save the larger area is to burn out the decaying section. It is time now to start that fire, and if it takes more and more people to default, then perhaps the best course of action is for the general populace to decided enough is enough. Press the reset button.
most of these people were greedy jackasses who MEW'd to buy consumer shit. Fuck 'em.
Fuck everybody who enabled them and was dependent on them. Fuck the whole lot of them. I had a house bought in 2000 that went way the hell up too and I MEW'd not one goddamned dollar.
Oh I am not doubting that a great deal of stupidity and hubris went into the mix of this global FIRE clusterfuck. But we seem to be short of ideas on how else to deal with the rot other than just completely collasping the whole damn thing and rebuilding after the dust settles.
Hey, trav, Fuck you! You enabled them too.
By breathing? By not having enough force to physically stop it? What is your basis?
Allow me to gloat once again and say I am glad I was never stupid enough to "buy" a house!
me neither. thank goodness my college major was finance.
You sweat and toil to maintain your mortgage, but what does a banker's sweat and toil entail?
http://ronaldlewis.com/money-made-from-thin-air-the-credit-river-decision/
Since all of the major banks with the possible exception of JPM are insolvent, and would have been nationalized if not for the Fed, it's hard to defend any of their actions. They lobbied for changes in the bankruptcy code so they could offer more credit cards to questionable borrowers, then jacked up their rates at the same time they were getting bailed out. No doubt they'll get bailed out again and keep screwing their customers.
This reminds me of all the "squatters" in NY City apartments and anywhere else with rent control, renters pay way under the property's real value many times subletting illegally and the owner is left out to dry. Property rights? None.
Why should these pukes pay their mortgages?
Due diligence would have prevented this mess but the banks looked the other way and purposely ignored it for profit. Borrowers didn't create "sub-prime" loans, no doc loans, ARMS, No Down, etc. and borrowers didn't create MERS, mortgage backed securities, to pass the bad mortgage on to unknowing investors. This is 100% the banks fault. The banks created the incentives for people to take advantage of. Now there crying because they screwed themselves. If due diligence was performed in the first place, none of this would have occurred. Banks can say "NO" to a potential borrower but they chose not to. I also don't believe that people should be taking a free ride either. People know if they are in default...Buying themselves some time on the backs of the banks is BS. Banks should have taken there time and foreclosed without document mills creating fraud paperwork. Again, 100% the banks fault. Banks also should have not offered teaser loans. People got greedy looking for a quick flip. Allot of lessons learned.
I'll admit that I'm short selling the place I bought. My wife had unexpected major medical problems, and we out grew the place. We had to move. The place dropped in value from 384K to 138K. What other choice did I have? Screw the banks. They are at least partly responsible for the bubble and burst in the first place. We could have stayed in the place and not paid, but I did not believe that was ethical or wise. Wise as in I did not want to be homeless with children due to bad credit and no one renting to us. Therefore, I got a rental before the short sale details hit my credit.
By the way, I did not use a LoC or borrow against the mortage in any way. I was not a speculator either. The place was bought to live in it in April of 2005, and that ended up unfortunately being near the height of the market. When I bought the place, I was single with no children too. The bank has approved the short sale, and I sleep soundly at night without an ounce of guilt. Perhaps others will think differently
You worked it out with the bank. You're just fine. Short sales are a different issue than living in a place rent-free for five years.
Stay and pay as you had promised to do?
As I explained, that was not possible. My wife had three surgeries, multiple hospital stays, etc. It was either get out or go broke. Life is not as easy as you would like it to be. I bought the place well before knowing my future wife would haev tens of thousands in medical bills too.
This is also why BoA has approved the short sale. I am not trying to scam anyone, and my situation is well documented and reasonable.
I was just answering your question, or was it merely rhetorical?
So you paid all her medical bills?
so what you gonna do when this woman turns out to be as bad an investment as the house?
He has to leave her. What other choice does he have? Screw the wife. She is at least partly responsible for her health and medical bills in the first place.
Life is not as easy as you would like it to be. He married her well before knowing she would haev tens of thousands in medical bills too.
When he married the woman, she was healthy with no children. It is either get out or go broke. He is not trying to scam anyone, and his situation is well documented and reasonable.
The church will approve the divorce, and he will sleep soundly at night without an ounce of guilt. Perhaps others will think differently.
In getting involved in the housing business hasn't the government done essentially the same as in healthcare? Creating more entitlements. Entitlements to get something for nothing and thus enslaving you to the government. Incrementalism. Comments?
Your aboslutly right. the goverment started the problem in the early 90's. The politiancs got allot of kickbacks. When the cold war ended no one was looking.
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/6/2/reckless_endangerment_how_outsized_ambition_greed
Interesting comments, personally I would like to know if my mortgage servicer actually possesses the title (deed?) to my house. How would one go about finding out if this is in fact the case?
If you're black....kick back ! If you're white....you'll have to fight ! Monedas 2011 I almost want to buy a house so I can go into "Loan Limbo" and use my mortgage money to "Keep on hoardin !" ? Bank title has a glitch....that's what you had to buy title insurance for....that's no reason to stop payment of your mortgage ?
And what exactly is the difference between a strategic defaulter and the bottom-feeding investor that will suck up the defaulter's property? You can piss and moan like a bitch, but always offer 50% of the solution.
The banks are broke 100 times over. They can claim any part of that 100 times over for the reason they need another bailout.
Of course they'll blame the squatters.
But again, it ain't their loans, they are leveraging off those assets...that aren't theirs...that has generated something for them...for free, and they are broke as a joke in many other ways.
Only if America is stupid will they blame the squatters for another tarp. So....possibly. But it shouldn't be, given the facts.
The real issue is that those who got forclosed won't be able to get into the housing market for a well. The so called "housing recovery" is only happening in Bernanke's computer full of real viruses.
So what? Is being a deadbeat the privilege only of the government? Why can't little people do the same?
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com
http://strikelawyer.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/squatting-ii-cnn-is-catchin...
damn
paid my junk off
years ago...
all i got was this
19 wooded acres ..
on a south facing hill side...
any water?
no..
well would be +400 ft ..
haul and store water..
2 x1000 gal buried tanks
nice...just make sure your pump's in tip top shape.
spares with rebuild kits on shelf
redundant systems ..
been there done that before..
have you experiment with solar at all to provide backup power if needed?
.
in the tradition of the Steak & Marla friday mixes, some thread music:
MUSIC FOR CRAWLING THRU ABANDONED CITIES
http://www.mixcloud.com/HeadphoneCommute/matt-van-ax-music-for-crawling-...
listen & ponder the plight of Americo.
Haven't heard from Marla for a while, but we still can listen to Mira and Ladytron:
Destroy everything you touch
http://youtu.be/-M5Ue0x3b6c
Fighting in built up areas
http://youtu.be/ZsGFNY3K284
Listen to several tracks here:
http://www.ladytron.com/mp3s.php?id=17
Here's an old one from Steak:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B64086D4A6EDA49C
Also, usually a good fit to pretty much any ZH piece: Thievery Corporation
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C9678803FF38337F
CD, have a friend who came up in the DC music scene same time the TCorp cats did and shared a little bit too much about them for me to enjoy them anymore. let's just say their name is not a political statement, but an artistic truth. fwiw, friend's a success in his own right and i've never known him to playa hate.
fila brazilia rocks tho.
I have recently changed my position on this. If you believe you can get a free house, then please do so. (Some people get angry over the term "free house" so replace that with whatever makes you feel better.) I really really really hope you can pull it off. Just know that this is a gamble. Please save some of the money you are not paying your mortgage with. If they do foreclose, and it takes 3 years, you can potentially walk away with over 50-100k. Best of luck!
A "Squatter" is someone who doesn't have a toilet ! These are air conditioned, bay front, granite counter top, full bar "House Sitters" ! Only in Amerika ! Monedas 2011 Don't be the last fool to obey all the rules of this corrupt, fascist, welfare state !
I often wonder why I'm still paying the mortgage myself on this underwater hovel I'm stuck in, in this illegal alien infested town of manassas park with no possibility of breaking even within the next decade. Often I wonder this and I mean REALLY often.
That area is what we call "Little Mexico." I know what you mean. Decade? You're fooling yourself. Try more like 40 years. How far under water are you? Look into short selling it perhaps...
I'm a decade far probably and hood and town are getting worse by the day. Roaches from illegals next door, grafitti on my fence 2 or 3 times a year, homes 10-15 per. Not fun mate. WF won't even take your call for a short sale if you aren't at least 3 months behind. Oh and I bought in 2002 and didn't use it like an ATM. Illegals and/or their ilk came in and bought homes during the boom and then left and caused a 70% drop from peak in about a year's time and then a year later flooded back into town as renters like a plague of locusts. I'm just here until something major breaks or I start to get property damage/fear for my safety and then I'm gone and the keys get mailed to WF with a picture of my middle finger. I will also mail that picture of my middle finger to the manassas park city council/mayor and every member of the virginia state senate.
Do not go to your mortgage company to short sale. Get a professional short sale negotiator, and then they go to the mortgage company for you. The mortgage company is of course going to blow you off and ignore you. It's not in their best interests to make the process easy after all. ;-)
Already done and done that and they told me what I told you. 3 months behind or else nothing they could do. WF will NOT short sell unless you are technically already in default or unless you have a medical or financial emergency which I don't. Mailed keys and middle finger are my solution if one of the before mentioned criteria are met any time in the near future.
U need to GTFO and move to Arlington where the white people still live.
Well, he sure needs to GTFO.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-cash-for-keys.htm
There are several terms used in this article indicating it is a hit piece for the banking/securitization industry. Only someone without personal knowledge would claim anyone is squatting in their own home, where the homeowner is the only party known to have made any payment toward it whatsoever, from day one. This in itself is a violation of lending law, check it out.
To automatically assume that the homeowner owes anyone makes an ass of the assumptor. If the question were asked in several other ways you might get the following answers;
1. Did you ask the bank if they own the lien on your house? Did they answer?
2. Did you make a legal request for the information regarding the sale? Did they answer?
3. Did anyone record the sale to the party that now claims to own your loan and that you have to pay them? Did you send them a legal request? did they answer?
4. Did the lien get sold in whole or part to another single party? or was it sold to more than one for securitization? did they answer?
5. Did the lender prove they funded the transaction? If they did not it is considered predatory if they did not reveal this to the buyer in the documents.
You will never receive an answer to the questions above as a homeowner.
I would waste 5000 words to show the absurdity of claiming the homeowner owes anyone without proof showing the transactions of the security interest. 30 Trillion in artificial wealth created by a scam was used BOTH to pay off their obligation, and continue to make a claim to it as though it still existed.
sorry, Ignorance is not bliss. The concealment of a crime of this scale is the point, and "it" is the cause of our decline. When the court asks for proof, the claim against the homeowner goes away. Did the author know this? Did the author even consider finding out if the claim of debt he uses to justifiy calling someone a squatter was true? One shouldn't try to run this kind of crap past ZH readers. But it is typical of CNN being used. I wonder how much it cost to run this kind of an ad?
rant over, my apologies but this is my business.
I know it's your business, but you need to bring your info into June/2011 age. These silly questions nowadays puts your foreclosure on a fast track, and thus special teams assigned to expedite your case.
Not necessarily. A friend of mine asked a bunch of questions, in writing, and the bank just wrote her a letter telling her the info she requested was proprietary, not applicable and some other BS. Definitely no copy of the note she twice requested. Her loan is serviced by MERS, improperly recorded, the whole 9 yards.
Re: Banking/securitization hit-piece. That's exactly the feeling I got from this article also and running it on Yahoo, with all the pro-bankster astroturfing comments reinforced it. I'm suing my pretender-lender/MERS, although I have not been foreclosed upon. Even now during the suit, the bankster is now trying to reassign again. The originator in my case also went bankrupt and transferred assets without the trustee's permission and while the trustee was actively involved in the case. According to BK laws, that is NOT allowed! Why isn't that considered fraud? Why are there two sets of rules in this country? One for the common sheeple to obey and one for the oligarchs to ignore? And why do the serfs quibble with each other and deflect blame from the banksters? I did take a loan and I do owe somebody, but who do I owe? That will be for the judge to decide.
Bravo. Take a bow. Best post of the week.
Biff,
Unless you are talking about a certain form of Trust Deed, the mortgage company does not "own" your house, you do. The real question is, has your chain-of-title (the ability to sell your property to another, and that entity can obtain title insurance) been compromised by multiple assignments of the mortgage, robosigning, fraudulent affadavits, MERS inability to foreclose, etc. In fact, many strategic defaulters feel that their newfound windfall is somehow achieved by the lender's inability to foreclose at all. I have a property that I have sold 9 months ago, and it still has not closed. It has 11 assignments that should have been recorded, but held silent under MERS. So some retard like Trav7777 comes along and calls me a squatter? Three new contracts because the property is sinking faster and faster. I did nothing to damage my title. But, many stategic defaulters think that the foreclosure man isn't going to get them. They are wrong of course, but if they wait long enough, they can refinance and get the new lender to accept a title policy.
Ok, hate to be stoopid here, but how does one know if the 'bank has broken title' on ones home?
@dexter_morgan You should be able to check your title record at your county office. You want to look for a document named something like "Substitution of Trustee." And if that document shows MERS listed (aka, Mortgage Electronic Registration Services), then consider hiring the services of a foreclosure attorney to fight it. Alternatively, many attorneys will do a "securitization audit" for you, for a small fee, to discover how your title is recorded.
This web site has a "Resources" button at the top with hints and tips on how to search your title:
http://4closurefraud.org/
So whats the point of having title insurance, and what is their role in all this?
You can not find but about 10% of the information on your property at county records. That is the problem. You have to take some legal action to find out. The purposefully do not record the assignments so that the dozen or more in the intervening years can't be recorded, as it would mean 10 more companies than you thought have been playing poker with your mortgage deed, or your note, which was lost to one, newly created by another to make them look like the owner. Write letters under FDCPA or RESPA statutes, If you send a proper RESPA "Qualified Written Request" chances are, last time you hear from them if they don't own what they claim, as they are on the hook to return your property without mortgage, and are liable for serious damages from anyone of 6 fed agencies.
Our biggest problem? There are only thousand attorneys that even understand the concept ofproperty law. Most just went with the flow for the last dozen years and ingored the law staring them in the face that said their acts were violations or crimes.
Ask your bank, see what you get. Remember the "Show me the Note" campaign? The most pop answer from the bank was "you don't have any right to this information". Which is funny, because you have every right, and they have to provide it, to a legal request!
dup
Oh the codeworded reductionisms again, putting serf against serf (I'm amazed I didn't see any "socialism" or "communism" in the first paragraph too). "Entitled" when calling people who decided not to pay criminal banks for shit those banks did wrong in the first place. Why don't you throw the "e" word for the banks, who felt entitled to live on everybody else's expense?? This is nothing but fair. Banks screwed up with mortgages and now they want to "make it right" by foreclosing shit they never even wanted to own. I say fuck em, don't pay mortgage and let them go bust once and for all.
More Fraud
Real-estate scam that’s devastating prices Plus, one reader’s complaint about ‘offensive’ Bank of America adshttp://www.marketwatch.com/story/real-estate-scam-thats-devastating-pric...
What did the banks think when they broke securitization or other laws? Didn't they think it was risky? Or did they expect the same retroactive leagaliztion the telecoms received?
We don't get to steal, defraud, counterfeit, or forge. Should we expect bankers to be able to get away with it?
In a fit of justice, I suggest that these people rent some of the space for a profit.
ok, fuck the failed banks and fuck the failed borrowers. neither one is innocent, both will get their comuppance sooner or later.
Hey, all is fair in love and war.
The banks are f_cking everyone over, so I say if anyone has a chance to f_ck 'em back they should take it. This might be breaking news for some people but its the Rules of the Jungle out there.
That broad cashes in on the enormous appreciation in home-value, loses it all when the system tanks, lives in a roboforeclosure home free and clear, and her big worry is whether she should get another dog.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Are you fucking kidding me? We are so done.
It's ugly and this is what happens when fraudulent and manipulative behavior is rampant in the system.
In the end it's just meaningless one side trying to outlegal the other and in the meantime our country is no closer to getting to where it needs from an economic standpoint. We need to really clean house and it needs to start at the top right away so that the financial sector can finally be dealt with once and for all. There's too much damn fraud everywhere.
Here is how this goes down..A homeowner asks for a loan modification, idiot at bank says you need to be delinquent at least 30 or 60 days, so homeowner misses 2 payments, applies for loan mod, sends in paperwork 5 times for 6 months and meanwhile does not make payments, bank then says does not qulaify for loan mod, so homeowner tne says fuck the bank and the system..this will happen for years to come..no end in sight...
Fuck the banks, if their papers were in order this wouldn't be happening to them.
I guess no one likes to mention that in commercial real estate, defaults are standard practice... but when individuals do it, it's a morality issue?
Banks and corporations have been getting a free ride for years at taxpayers' expense, yet if some strapped homeowners get a freebie, it's evil? Double standard much?
If the assignor has received consideration in the form of UCC 8 financial instruments in exchange for assigning away its intangible note holder rights in order to capitalize those very same financial instruments- then creditor has been paid- right?
Almost nobody here gets what is really happening. In most of these cases, banks are chosing not to foreclose. Perhaps they can't get title insurance upon foreclosure. Perhaps they've got too much inventory and not enough staff to handle it. Perhaps they're waiting for prices to stop falling. Perhaps they're incompetent. But as a bankrtupcy attorney in California I can tell you that there is nothing preventing banks here from foreclosing other than the usual bankruptcy process. And that process has been dramatically streamlined under the 2005 Bankruptcy Code amendments and most court's local practices.
No, what I see are banks that have the right to foreclose but are chosing not to. They are trying to get their customers to short sale their homes or sign forebearance agreements that contain releases of liability. ANYTHING but foreclosure, which devalues their collateral and forces them under accounting rules to take an IMMEDIATE loss.
How interesting. So you see no inconsistencies with MERS or rulings within the court in CA. No problems with the RMBS process. No inconsistencies or errors with POCs from the banks. Wow, just wow.
Edit: Ah, silly me. A BK atty on the creditor's side - no wonder there's a "blind eye" to any "unpleasant issues" like MERS or securitization which might be detrimental to creditors.
Tyler, Tyler, Tyler: after the Wall Street economic hit men, extortion experts, congress-bribers, loan-sharks, & industry "OUTSOURCING" economic SABOTEURS have raked in WELL OVER $20 TRILLION in taxpayer EXTORTED "bailouts" (and this article/snap-shot tabulation was written long before Bernanke's "FREE MONEY FOR BANKERS" QE 1, 2, and soon 3) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aY0tX8UysIaM#
...you report today that "squatters" are receiving "as much as $50 billion in "rental" income for those same" [families].
YEAH... and, SO?!
THAT's TERRIFIC! That's $50 BILLION that is ACTUALLY MAKING IT BACK IN _TO_ the REAL economy, not being SIPHONED OUT by the PARASITIC vampire squids at goddamn-sachs, jpm, the Fed, and the uber-parasite rotchild mafiosos.
I lost over $100,000 on a property I purchased in 2004 - and I would NEVER have paid that much, except for ALL THE FREE CASH that Greenspan & Bernanke had ARTIFICIALLY PUMPED UP the economy with, by PRINTING MONEY for their LBO friends at GoddamnSachs & KKR all through the late '90s and few years after 9-11. I'm HAPPY those "squatters" can PAY FOR THEIR FAMILIES, instead of sending money to Fannie, Freddie, GS, JPM, and all the other ONCE, TWICE, THRICE QUADRUPLE bailed out black hole economy gutting pigs on Wall Street & City of London...
Another fucking pro squatter comment. Too FUCKING BAD if you lost money. People need to pay back the money they borrowed or default, but they dont get to stay in the house for nothing. Is that TOO HARD to understand.
FUCK the FREELOADERS.
Breaking news: will the Swiss arrest Bush, Kissinger, Cheney? AMAZING
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-swiss-parliamentarians-to-force-way-in...
Let's go back to the beginning of this whole transaction of buying a house. The person or persons buying that home decided to engage a bank or institution to lend them the funds ncessary to complete that transaction. The person did not have the money themselves to buy that home without the money being provided to them by the financial institution. When the person signed the mortgage contract documents, it was their responsibility to read them from top to bottom. There were no guns pointed at their head forcing them to sign. The terms and conditions of that contract were there for the mortgagee to see and understand. If it was an adjustable, then its going to adjust. The payments will go from X to Y. If you can't pay, then it is understood that you will lose the right to own that house through the foreclosure process. Period.
This country was founded on the principle of individual sovereignity, which brings with it the duty of responsibility and accountability for your portion of an agreement you enter. You take the risk or the reward with every decision you make and, yes, that means sometimes you lose and lose big. That's no ones fault or problem other than your own. The mortgagee that fails to make a payment has defaulted on their agreement....their word. The money that is owed, regardless of the note holder, is an obligation and the lack of payment weakens the financial system which we all participate in. When a payment is not paid and that behavior multiplies, it becomes not just a burden to those banks (yes, I hate them too) but to all of us. This argument of its all the banks fault....they lost the note....is a self righteous justification of your own abrogation to your agreement. By staying in a home that you rightly couldn't be living in except for the original funding by a financial institution where the money comes from all of us directly or indirectly by our mutual participation in this system. This insistence of no responsibility to make restitution is asking all of us to pick up the bill for your inability to pay.
The banks and their issues are a whole different problem and are a separate issue. They need to be dealt with as well. No one should get off scot free. Our democratic republic depends on all players to be honest in their dealings. You signed it....you failed to make payments.....you must leave the house to allow it be resold. Its only really yours if you paid for it in full with your own cash. Just my thoughts....there are millions out there by their actions obviously disagree with me.
one simple question sir Isacc. Who do you pay if your not guaranteed clear title? Do you keep on paying and then when finally paid off find out you can't get a clear title? How d you sell a clouded title?
Easy answer. Did you stop paying BEFORE or AFTER you doscovered title difficiencies?
At the end of your mortgage period, in most states you can sue for "Quiet" Title. There are numerious remedies, under the law, to secure proper title at the end of your mortgage period. The question is why do you believe you're entitled to live in a house that you didn't pay for....using other people's money....and still think you're justified in your actions? My point is very simple...you are responsible for your own actions...sign an agreement and make the payments. If you can't make those payment and stay, you're expecting me and your fellow citizens to bail you out because that money has to come from somewhere.
Well no. If you finish paying your mortgage, the bank is supposed the release the title to you.
Quiet Title is an adversarial action you take to claim title, anytime.
who said I believe I'm entitled to live in a house I didn't pay for? Did you see that in a previous post of mine? Sir Issac you should read a post before responding to it and not assume stupid shit based on your bias. I almost have my mortgage paid off, I'm concerned about the amount of times my title has been transfered from one servicer to another.
I don't expect you to do jack shit except to keep on shilling for the TBTF banks that robbed you and me.
+1 on the shilling for the banks. B of A has a whole dept devoted to astroturfing.
Misinformation and and 10% of the reality of contract law. Work for the bank I?
Breaking news: Kissinger, Cheney and Bush to be arrested in Switzerland?
http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-swiss-parliamentarians-to-force-way-in...
Yeah, and leprechauns exist too.
One thing that is not being brought up is the fact that the banks really don't want to own a lot of empty houses. Houses go to hell in a hand-basket when they are empty and so really lose even more value. Vancancy forces the banks to either sell the houses or pay for upkeep. With deadbeats living in a home then the banks don't really have to pay for upkeep and don't have to sell it to avoid maintenance costs. As well, when the banks sell the houses they will then have to realize the loss on their books and can no longer 'mark to fantasy' (as opposed to mark to market). So, in reality, the squaters are helping the banks with their 'extend and pretend' game plan.
Oh Great, the squatters and the banks are in cahoots to screw over the people who pay their bills. Talk about being double fuct!
Richard Nerd, Jr., who has so responsibly paid his bills and been a remarkably inspiring paragon of Boy Scout morals (according to him, at least), is gonna be an unfortunate collateral casualty.
Perhaps he should have been more involved in his society than in waging war on his fucking dandelions.
I'm sorrier for him that I am the dandelions. Not a lot, but still.
It's like being a "Good German." You gotta have some sympathy, I guess.
Your pathetic, your only protest is not paying your bills.
C'mon Bob, the dandelions are tougher than you!!!
The Monster : How a Gang of Predatory Lenders and Wall Street Bankers Fleeced America--and Spawned a Global Crisis
Michael W. Hudson
Introduction:
Bait and Switch
A few weeks after he started working at Ameriquest Mortgage, Mark Glover looked up from his cubicle and saw a coworker do something odd. The guy stood at his desk on the twenty-third floor of downtown Los Angeles's Union Bank Building. He placed two sheets of paper against the window. Then he used the light streaming through the window to trace something from one piece of paper to another. Somebody's signature.
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2010/10/25/how-a-gang-of-predatory-lenders-and-wall-street-bankers-fleeced-america-and-spawned-a-global-crisis.aspx
Banks don't want to own houses and I agree with that statement, but they are holding onto the houses and playing games because they don't want to recogonize the loses either. just last night a friend of mine and I drove past a house that was foreclosed and covered with mold inside because the bank has been holding the asset for probably 3 years or so. It is joke.
First of all, there's the issue with titles. I couldn't force myself to pay on a mortgage without being absolutely sure that when I made the last payment I actually owned the house. That right there is good enough reason to withhold payments until someone can make a valid case that they are the creditor. However, in the interest of being honest, if one can make the payments and chooses not to for this reason, they ought to put their payments into an escrow account each month so they can make all the back payments when validity is confirmed.
As to paying on a house in which you're severely underwater? Corporations break contracts all the time. They do so because there are clauses that allow them to, and because it makes financial sense. A mortgage is no different. Both parties agreed to the terms under the laws of the state and county in which the property exists. A borrower is within their legal rights to default as a matter of strategy. It's not fraud because the intent to default was no present at the signing of the loan. It's simply a matter of exercising contractual abilities.
...who's on first ... what's on second ... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz ....
We all know we the sheeple of the gone old US were pigs, the game was riged, finical education was non existence. Truly most of you know what is coming down the pike. It don't really matter any more cuz once the heard gets thinned and thinned it will, once what us builders did ( I am guilty as charged as I use to be a builder) in helping with urban sprawl and gas is $6.00 fake bucks a gallon and the shit hole you bought 70 miles from you soon to be non exsitance job. I'm sure there will be plenty of homes perfect for the moving into and very reasonable prices all you will have to do is move in. Of course if you live in a place that is too cold or to hot you may not have any neighbors. Just a little taste check out Detroit here you can get a nice spread for a rock of crack. Vegas and AZ too.
The argument is really circular when the shit hits the fan it wont really matter who has the title it will be possesion is 9/10 the " non-exsistante law"
In the mean time I hear American Idol really rocks!!! O ya and lindsy Lo dumb ass we lub you to.
We dont need water let the mother fucker burn
I have believed and continue to believe this was the plan by TPTB from the beginning. When I say the plan, I mean specifically that regulators were not asleep at the switch. They knew the domino cascading effect of blowing a huge bubble in housing and letting it pop. We were losing our jobs to other countries that could do the same thing for less. The biggest expense and reason we could not compete anymore is the cost of housing. So how can we reduce the cost of housing and make it possible for our population to (better) compete globally. So how could they ensure that the cascade begins?
Give loans to people with no chance of paying them back, check
Create such loans that will double or triple in monthly payment in say 5 years, check
Construct astronomical amounts of new homes that there is no real demand for, check
Allow those so inclined to buy multiple houses they cannot afford and flip for profits, check
I think the end game is cheaper housing, and a workforce that can make less money and still enjoy the American Dream.....check
I have learned a lot in the couple years I have followed ZH, and would not be surprised if someone here can immediately refute my claim with solid evidence to support it. Please be so kind to enlighten me. Otherwise I stick with my belief that no one was asleep at the switch, this was intentional, and in fact may work in time to make us more competitive globally. Flame away.
If the endgame was to make housing less expensive, all they had to do was change lending requirements and shut down Freddie and Fannie. Remove the government backstop and less people get loans. Require higher downpayments and less people get loans. Both of these things drive down prices.
But they don't have near the effect of flooding the market with supply, covering up the glut in supply by allowing all manner of speculators, homeless, mortgage frauders, etc. to buy creating the continued illusion of demand. Blow the fucker up nice and proper and let her blow in a major way, then we will see some price declines. Just one mans opinion.
No question about it. That whole bill that started out in the Carter administration to enable low income people the ability to own homes, of which I cannot recall the name at the moment, had this goal in sight in my opinion.......which could be wrong - probably has been at least one time.
BS! This is about money - politics is just also about money. These goons on Wall Street pulled this crap with the S&L scandal and probably a lot of scum bags got bailed out by the government in the hundreds of billions. So they did it again - except this time in trillions. Throw these scumbags in jail for hundred year sentences and seize all their assets! Even if we make it out of this mess, what the hell do these jackasses in governemtn think will happen next if these crimes go unpunished. Does anyone give a shit anymore about your own families, and your country? dont these people in government realize that we are all tied together on this and so is their families? where the hell are these idiots going to go - Ireland, Iceland, paraguay, some carribean hell hole? I just don't understand these people, then again, I am not a total soulless dirtbag sociopath either.