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"...almost like an Intelligence operation..."
Lmao..good one! +10
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www.. hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
Hypocrisy by Mr. Moore to the extreme. Without Capitalism, funds would not exist to fulfill his bullshit. This reminds me of people who pledge against capitalism while they are on their Apple laptop funded by Daddy's companies' money so they don't have to work and instead can criticize capitalism which has in fact laid their golden egg and has given them the right to criticize it.
You've expressed the typical petty-bourgeois attitude, m'boy. Stuck between the big boys and the proles are ya?
Remember this lingo???
So what you're saying is that those early pioneers of capitalism who fought and died in the struggle against Feudalism were hypocrites because of course the food the ate and the clothes they wore were the products of Feudal production. In fact it is an argument that can be made against all human progress throughout history. And indeed it was made against the early proponents of capitalism.
Arrest all of Wall Street.
Throw Michael Moore in with them.
We'll see who wins the fight for the PBJ sandwich and survives.
Elizabeth Warren played the part perfectly! Hilarious!
I see it this way...this should scare that crap out of the SIA...target is all the stupid ppl who pay the most taxes that supports this Banana Republic. Everything you always wanted to know about Wall Street, and nobody would tell you??? sit back, grab the popcorn and it will be acted out in real time with real crooks!
Rating is Dangerous if you are broke and unemployed. But don't dismay, you can order your pitchfork at MichaelMore.com
Oh, please what a porker that one is. He is totally clueless, tasteless and a perfect match for Dearest Leader et.al.
+1... He plays to the mindless bot that can't do their homework or read between lines.
-2 Nothing but ad hominem slams. Moore made Fahrenheit 911 when most of the country was still buying the Cheney and Bush lies. It took courage and a perceptive mind to make that movie. I love the guy... a national treasure.
He tends to be a propagandist,which puts me off, but he's on the right side of this mess with the new movie. Note the howls of criticism coming from the "revolutionaries" here . . . moneyed-ass-kissing sycophants who know, when push comes to shove, exactly where their bread is buttered.
I agree, completely. I often don't agree with him or his tactics (too much deceiving editing for my tastes) but I'm endlessly entertained by him, he offers a point of view that exists to be accepted or countered, and SOMEONE needs to stick it to Paulson, GS, and his fellow crooks.
The other side are always 'propagandist'.
You, of course, are 'objective' and 'rational'.
That mindless Bot elected the dictators to benefit our enemies!!!!
The majority of our country is made up of people who read between the 8th and 9th grade level... which means they would never be able to understand this blog and the complexity of the issues it addresses... and any financial concept beyond the interest on their savings account would be too complex to grasp. As controversial as Michael Moore can be... he does translate the complexity of the message that we read everyday on ZH into more simple terms so the majority of the people in our country can also understand the message and understand the basic concepts. So yes in a way I do agree with Sqworl... that if we have a hope of really getting out of this mess... someone besides the MSM needs to educate those less knowledgeable or hindered by the complexity of concepts and language.
I'm doing my part to educate - Sit down with my 1st grader everyday to read. Enjoying Matilda now, City of Ember next and Animal Farm. I wasn't half as smart as that kid at his age.
Like the man (Frank Zappa) said, "If your children ever find out how lame you really are, they'll murder you in your sleep."
Frank also named one of his kids "Moon Unit" didn't he?
Dweezil probably wishes it had been two.
Yeah, that's right! I forgot about old Dweezil.
The trailer showed us only a part, a view that is popular and easy to share with many. Michael Moore is a goddamned Socialist, and his movie will "educate" the masses to demand a soclialist solution; that part wasn't shown in the trailer.
Yes... I agree with your point... you may be right... rather educating the populus so they can vote in those who can really fix the situation... he may educate them just enough to further leverage the government and line up at the trough with the TBTF's. Is there another country we can move to... I think this is a hopeless effort... maybe Texas will secede :-)
Agree on all accounts, but remember that most gun toting Americans hate the man. They refuse to watch any of his movies. The people that will watch, already are leaning left anyways, and will just reinforce their thoughts that the "free market system" is in need of further government regulation.
Hopefully he will expose the system as corrupt, and indict the government for creating this disaster.
One can hope anyway.
"you may be right... rather educating the populus so they can vote in those who can really fix the situation"
And exactly who are these people??
Sorry, I haven't quite figured that out yet... but I do have great concern that our two-party system is broken... democracy isn't working out exactly like the founding fathers envisioned... my feeling is that it may work better on a smaller scale as in when they lived... but on this large of a scale it is ripe for corruption.
Here it comes, just dust off the old McCarthy ghost from the 50's.
You are truly a pinhead. The only socialism happening in this country is the massive transfer of public funds to private corporations.
Read a newspaper!
First, apologies to anyone whom I apparently misled into believing that I wished to engage in the false left-right paradigm. I do not.
Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating state, worker or public ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.
Wanna go again?
1. Single-payer isn't even on the table. What we'll likely end up getting due to the lobbying of the insurance industry is "subsidized mandates", which is a hand-out to the insurance industry. That is fascism, not socialism.
2. The public "owns" GM and Chrysler as much as it "owns" the big banks and AIG. We may have collectively paid off tons of private parties to get a share of these bankrupt industries, but the BENEFICIARIES aren't you and me. We won't, collectively, see control nor profit of these entities. They are merely propped up by public funds to benefit a private few. That is fascism, not socialism.
3. Medicare and Medicaid are socialist programs.
4. Social Security is a socialist program.
5. For Fannie and Freddie, see #2 above.
6. Oh dear lord, I can see you are a nutball with #6. Righto, the income tax is evil, and you shouldn't have YOUR money taken from you by it. Now stand right over there so the masses can lynch your sorry ass because you think you get to rape them economically and deny them any benefits.
You're an extremist idiot.
Might you be drawing somewhat thin and arbitrary distinctions between socialism and fascism? Really that different - maybe not.
Socialism and fascism are each forms of statism, forms of government in which the government is given complete or extensive control over the lives of its citizens. They may espouse marginally different idealogical goals and make divergent claims as to the degree of eocnomic freedom, but its largely window dressing.
1. Single-payer isn't even on the table.
So they now claim, but they want it to be.
2. We may have collectively paid off tons of private parties...
GM and Chrysler were stolen from senior secured debtholders; while chunks were given to the unions (redistribution) the rest was retained by dot gov. It may be too early to tell, but the fact that a chunk was given to the UAW belies their intent. I agree that, generally speaking, smashing companies and taking them, or simply taking them, is more facist. The government clains it does not intend to run the businesses. We will see.
5. Fannie and Freddie have been and are being used as wealth-redistribution schemes under the guise of a public entity. It is a government "business" run with the intent being the meeting of a perceived social need. Classic socialist program. You couldn't be more wrong.
6. I cannot find in my post anywhere where I made the statements you attribute to me in your #6. I merely stated that the income tax code contains a provision whereby people who had paid no tax were able to get cash refunds, and that that was a wealth redistribution scheme. This renders your last point a classic strawman. I note that in it you make what appears to be your most strongly-worded condemnation of my position, including nutball, extremist, etc. Not even a good try.
" . . . I agree that, generally speaking, smashing companies and taking them, or simply taking them, is more facist."
You really are a well-spoken, aren't you?
But taking or even smashing a company is rather more Communist. Then the people are forced to work for the now goverment-owned corporate entities.
Taking the Government over and using it to force the people and to work for the Corporation on the cheap and therefore earn more profit, well now that's straight up fascism. Or were you unaware of the worker cards tying laborers to their companies starting in pre-WWII Germany? That little work booklet was everything.
It's silly to quibble too much about definitions. Redistributionist policies I generally consider to be socialist; whether or not the means of production are actually owned, if for example the output is owned by virtue of its being (partially) seized and redistributed for social justice reasons, then by any other name...we do have some examples of actual overt state ownership of the means of production. We also have such a massive regulatory state that all businesses can be thought of as "government-controlled", except those that control the government.
Someone points out elsewhere in this thread that the -isms we debate are merely varations of statism. Corporatism, socialism, facism....all of these are variations on a theme, with the theme being age-old: rape of the workers / producers, by the rich / gentry / upper classes / royalty / whatever, and keep as much of it for themselves as they can get away with, using some of the loot to pay their partisans and maintain their place on top, some of it to pay for security ("courts of justice", police, etc) to keep the serfs in line, and the rest for.....just what is it that all of that wealth is for, anyway?
Anyway, I don't intend to get into a history discussion, and I don't intend to get into the phony left-right thing either. Our enemy, the state.
+ 9, -1 b/c you forget the Church
Point #6: Large US Corporations enjoy the status of "personhood" in our legal structure, but pay only about 2% in income taxes per year. Their lobbyists write our laws and corrupt our political leaders in both parties on the local, state, and federal levels. In some states they help elect the judiciary. Their employees go in and out of government (See Goldman, Welfare Queen & Sachs; and Armey, Dick) either as legislators or regulators, then as "rainmakers." The corporate and government climate in the United States resembles neither Socialism nor Fascism so much as Communism as practiced in the USSR in the late 1980's: corrupt, broke, and rather than having the government run the means of production, the corporation runs the government. Also a modern-day Versailles replete with personality cults (Bush 2), court intrigues (WaPo, Politico), and a complete disconnect with everyday rank-and-file people. In either case, (modern US capitalism vs. terminal stages of Soviet Communism) a wealthy elite runs things into the ground, then get richer. In either case, for most of the populace, it works out about the same: No chance for upward mobility, widespread poverty, and the cherished dreams of a once-great nation.
don't expect the socialist trolls to understand these simple facts anytime soon... the government sanctioned oligopolies have a way to go before the walls come tumbling down. and looks like China is leading the crazy parade on that front today.
There's never anything quite as effective in dividing for the conquering than the ignorant red herring of "socialism." Yours is the voice of the priviledged morons who now have the gall to whine that "it just ain't fair!" Them's the simple facts . . . GS, Barry O, et all couldn't buy better agents of disinformation.
I'm a socialist (not a troll) and I agree that "the government sanctioned oligopolies have a way to go before the walls come tumbling down." So???
In part an effort to monetize the bad debt they incurred supproting the G's huge social experiment in boosting home ownership? Got FANNIE/FREDDIE/GINNIE?
1.25 trillion in agency MBS, 200 billion in agency debt.
Are you in banking?
We'll see if socialism evolves from this mess. When and if it does, I suspect it will be far from our present understanding of it.
whats a CDS?
I am pretty sure you are being sarcastic, but just in case here is a link...
CDS = Commie Dick Sucker
If you look it up in the dicktionary, you'll probably see a picture of Barney Frank.
Maybe Michale Moore, but I'm not sure how he rolls?
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