This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Mint To Start Selling 2011 American Eagle Silver Coins At 75% Premium To Paper, As Senators Propose Eliminating Capital Gains From Precious Metal Transactions

Tyler Durden's picture




 

All those who have been long awaiting the release of the 2011 American Eagle Silver coins by the US Mint can now relax. America's official source of bullion will release the much anticipated 2011 edition tomorrow at noon, with a strict limit of 100 coins per household at the low, low price of...$59.95! Gotta love that physical-paper spread... It is almost as good as the gold-tungsten compression pair trade.

2011 American Eagle Silver Proof Coins Available June 30

WASHINGTON - The United States Mint will open sales for the 2011 American Eagle Silver Proof Coin at noon Eastern Time (ET) on June 30, 2011.  The coins will be priced at $59.95 each.  Orders will be limited to 100 units per household.

The obverse (heads side) of the coin features a rendition of Adolph A. Weinman's Lady Liberty in full stride, with her right hand extended and branches of laurel and oak in her left.  The reverse (tails side), by former United States Mint Chief Engraver John Mercanti, features a heraldic eagle with shield, an olive branch in the right talon and arrows in the left.

The American Eagle Silver Proof Coin contains .999 silver.  The one-ounce coin is struck on specially burnished blanks and carries the "W" mint mark, indicating its production at the United States Mint at West Point.  Each coin is encapsulated in protective plastic and placed in a blue presentation case with a Certificate of Authenticity.

Orders will be accepted at http://www.usmint.gov/catalog/ or at 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468).  Hearing- and speech-impaired customers with TTY equipment may order at 1-888-321-MINT.  The American Eagle Silver Proof Coin is also available for purchase through the United States Mint's Online Subscription Program.  Customers who enroll in the program can have the American Eagle Silver Proof Coin and other select products automatically billed and shipped as each product becomes available.  Visit http://www.usmint.gov/catalog/ for more information about this convenient shopping method.

The United States Mint, created by Congress in 1792, is the Nation's sole manufacturer of legal tender coinage and is responsible for producing circulating coinage for the Nation to conduct its trade and commerce.  The United States Mint also produces proof, uncirculated and commemorative coins; Congressional Gold Medals; and silver, gold and platinum bullion coins.

Note:  To ensure that all members of the public have fair and equal access to United States Mint products, orders placed prior to the official on-sale date and time of June 30 2011, at noon ET shall not be deemed accepted by the United States Mint and will not be honored.  For more information, please review the United States Mint's Frequently Asked Questions, Answer ID #175.

And in what is probably far more important news, GATA informs us that Utah Senator Mike Lee, has joined two other senators to introduce legislation that would eliminate capital gains from transactions involving gold and silver, "a change that he hopes will encourage a change in the nation’s monetary system." The reason: "This bill is an important step towards a stable and sound currency whose value is protected from the Fed’s printing press."

Utah Sen. Mike Lee joined with fellow Republicans on Tuesday to introduce legislation that would jettison federal capital gains taxes for gold or silver coins.

Lee’s measure would treat gold or silver coins the same as regular U.S. currency in transactions, a change that he hopes will encourage a change in the nation’s monetary system.

Utah was the first state in the nation to make gold or silver coins legal tender for transactions and removed any state capital gains taxes. Twelve other states have made or are considering such a move.

Lee noted that the U.S. dollar has lost about 98 percent of its value since the Federal Reserve was created in 1913.

"This bill is an important step towards a stable and sound currency whose value is protected from the Fed’s printing press," Lee said.

Lee co-sponsored the legislation with Sens. Jim DeMint of South Carolina and Rand Paul of Kentucky.

Good luck with that. And some words of advice to Senator Lee: stay away from rapidly moving objects and swimming pools.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:07 | 1412678 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

No shortage here, move along....

 

Silver For The People

http://www.youtube.com/user/BrotherJohnF?feature=mhee

The Bitcoin Channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/BitcoinChannel?feature=mhee

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1412730 camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

BTFD, Silver bitchez

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:49 | 1412868 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Proof coins are not ordinary ASEs and are always sold at higher prices.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:59 | 1413139 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's right, proof coins for the numistatists among ASE buyers always command a premium.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:55 | 1413541 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

As a coin dealer I can confirm this to be true.  Proof Silver Eagles are always priced higher. They have that special black white cameo look, designed for collectors only and not the General Public, although anyone can buy them.

http://www.coin-collecting-guide-for-beginners.com/image-files/2004_w_american_silver_eagle_proof_sm.jpg

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:27 | 1413647 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

How much did the proof Silver Eagles sell for a year ago?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:32 | 1414068 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I don't track those kind of prices, sorry.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:03 | 1414135 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

The 2010 Proof ASE was $49.95 USD.   I've got one in my hand. Beautiful.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:15 | 1413815 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

"Black white cameo look"-stuff is word, yo. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA

(Maybe a lil gay, but it was the '80s.)

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 10:38 | 1415444 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

ZOMG. I had no idea this video was so gay. I heard the song a million times when I was a kid.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:52 | 1414110 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Using proof prices to jack up a "spread" for sensationalism is unforgivable.

TD, you oughta be ashamed.

$39.89 for just 1 bullion ASE at APMEX.

What's the spread now?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 04:24 | 1476299 minted
minted's picture

Silver is going to be the real star really soon. So much more upside potential for commodity investors. Not now, but soon. Time to collect those american silver eagle coins

.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:19 | 1412756 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

this is for proofs, in fancy dorky little boxes. 

 

if you want a rather more interesting datapoint than the prices of proof coins, 

note that tulving has been sold out of krugerrands for like 3 days straight, sold out of a few other things in the past few days, and today, sold out of 100oz ag bars. 

remember when you knew something was going on, when nobody could load the kitco page (because everybody was reloading the kitco page)?

 

theres plenty of real signal, but c'mon... prices of proofs in silly little boxes, not the best indicator. such a premium on the bulk ag-eagles in green boxes would be something more interesting.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:32 | 1412801 besodemuerte
besodemuerte's picture

Exactly PROOF COINS people.  I must admit I love ZH but my respect just dropped a couple points now that this article is being pushed.  This article needs to be removed asap.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:38 | 1412824 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

With this blog, you just have to accept the good with the bad.  Whereas ZH's coverage of Chinese fraudcaps and HFT abuses has been absolutely outstanding, the posts regarding metals have much room for improvement.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:47 | 1412856 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

And thank goodness we have you here to correct any mistakes made by Tyler and ZH.

Get over yourself Flanagan.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:48 | 1412863 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

just trying to help

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1412902 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bullshit. I've read plenty of your posts on silver. You've been highly critical on those who have been calling this market correctly for many years.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:44 | 1413083 SparkySC
SparkySC's picture

The Flogging of Flanagan. LOL

 

Should be a movie title or at least a Mini-Series.

 

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:44 | 1413496 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

we just went commercial!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:55 | 1413534 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Mutha FucKerS!!! SO glad I bought mine when I did!!! SILVER GOLD BITCHES!!!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:04 | 1414137 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Well Perth Mint wins this silly little game hands-down...how about AU$299.00 for just 3 x 1oz coins. That's AU$99.67/oz!!!!!!!!

Who needs a poofy looking Silver Eagle when there's Megatron Silver Bitchez!

http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalogue/transformers-silver-proof-trio.aspx

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 09:47 | 1415208 Matt
Matt's picture

Looks like the only way to get a Megatron is to buy the three-piece set; it seems Megatrons on their own may be sold out already.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:41 | 1412854 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So why would you pay a 50% premium for a 'PROOF COIN'....big deal.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:57 | 1412915 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Because they are very pretty and very shiny, and come in a nice felt-lined box in a little capsule, etc.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:08 | 1413548 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Today's prices for common stuff made a century or more ago:

1880-1904 Common Morgan dollar, non-Proof - $35.

Proof Morgan dollar - $750 - 1,000 for a dog and up to $30,000 if it's really really nice.

Really depends on how many "proofs" they are making. Tens of thousands would lower the long term price. They made millions of Morgan dollars but only a thousand or less proofs each year.

Here's a bunch of Heritage Coin sales:

http://coins.ha.com/common/search_results.php?ic=homepage_search&Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ntt=Proof+&Ne=304&N=51+790+231+382

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:20 | 1413610 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Get yourself an antique piece of hardwood furniture, and you'll find the mark-up significantly larger.

Apply to most items - antique coins really are a niche market, imo.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 00:20 | 1414526 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Actually, I would argue with that. An 18th century slant front walnut desk can be had for prices that are below the cost of the walnut and brasses. Antique furniture is often cheaper than the Ethan Allen bullshit. My house is filled with it.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:53 | 1413722 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

The downside to collecting modern coins is the same for many of the other traditional collectables. Those really old morgans, and baseball cards for an even better example, are only rare because they weren't considered collectables so people didn't hoard them. They were spent, exchanged, melted down, and thrown away because they weren't seen as valuable.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 00:23 | 1414529 Thomas
Thomas's picture

That is absolutely true. A collectable has to go through a period of minimum (if not zero) worth. The sheets of stamps from the 30's on bought by many collectors sell for WAY under face value. They aren't even good for postage because they fill more than the envelopes surface.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:59 | 1414133 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The 5 oz ATB "quarters" in the original 1st year bullion run will turn out to be the buy of the century, assuming the Mint (in their infinite wisdom) doesn't screw up mintages lower than this on subsequent coinage of the set.  The older platinum issues have been some real screamers due to low mintage.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 02:05 | 1414645 The Malamute Kid
The Malamute Kid's picture

What kind of dog?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 02:05 | 1414646 The Malamute Kid
The Malamute Kid's picture

What kind of dog?

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 22:27 | 1417698 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

I'm not disagreeing with you per se, JLee, as you are correct in historical context, but I want something I can cash in on while I'm still alive. Melt value bullion is the best bet, because there's no premium that you'll hope to get back out of it. If and when SHTF big time nobody is going to give a rip how rare or special or shiny the coin is, and won't be awed into paying more than the intrinsic value when it's a matter of survival. It will be used for currency, and anything collectible will be considered frivolous. If I had any expensive coins I'd be selling them for bullion before the melt value creeps further into the numismatic value. The owner of my local coin shop said he'd be retired already if he'd have steered clear of rare coins and stuck to bullion.

And Tyler, why did you even post this? This was the first time I've seen you uninformed. Nobody's perfect though. Still love the site and everything you guys are doing, and I'll gladly take the good with the bad.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:16 | 1413006 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Let me know when Silver is no longer Silver just becuase it has cool designs on it and fancy stamps. 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:19 | 1413235 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

It happens every time it comes out of the shops of Georg Jensen, Tiffany,

Hermes, or as a proof coin from the US Mint.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:54 | 1413339 UGrev
UGrev's picture

I dressed up an impacted bowel movement in some G.I. Joe toy clothes.. but it still smelled like shit to me. Kung fu grip was kind of mushy too. So.. by your logic, can I call it an authenitc G.I. Joe with chocolate mousse snack pack? or do you think it's just a turd that's all dressed up with no place to go. :)

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:29 | 1414203 UGrev
UGrev's picture

awww.. I must have pushed a few cognitive dissonance buttons. 

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 08:01 | 1414909 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

A thing has value when you find buyers - or morons, take your pick - who will pay for it. 

And I am sure that at some crazy club in, say NYC, the mushy King Fu grip would be seen as a big selling point.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:15 | 1416288 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Actually, your logic is impeccable and unassailable (not to mention hilarious), which is why they pushed the junk button.  Nothing else they could do or say.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1412820 The Real McCoy
The Real McCoy's picture

+1

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:00 | 1412923 Reptil
Reptil's picture

What make you so sure there will be green monster boxes?

(personally I prefer the yellow ones :-D )

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:13 | 1413196 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

Correctemundo. This does not apply to uncircs....Much ado about nothing.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:45 | 1413325 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

All gentiles are uncircs.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 14:20 | 1416294 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Not true.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:14 | 1412983 Jambo Mambo Bill
Jambo Mambo Bill's picture

Hell with this Bitcoin BS! Sounds like monopoly money... SO some smartass comes up with some computer crap and folks buy it... RIght...

Mon, 07/04/2011 - 13:44 | 1424672 unununium
unununium's picture

Spoken like a douchebag who got his first email account in 2003.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1412679 slow_roast
slow_roast's picture

These markets are schizophrenic, might be time to go into mostly all physical and go diving in Micronesia. 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:07 | 1412713 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Exactly so!

Anyone left in 'paper' must have rocks in their head, or have a financial death wish!

As Olivia 'Neutron-Bomb' sang "Physical. Lets get physical!"

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:25 | 1412794 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

If you've never seen the video, here you go.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWz9VN40nCA

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:35 | 1412813 fuu
fuu's picture

The Revolting Cocks cover is waaaaay better.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:32 | 1412815 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

ditto^1000

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:50 | 1413093 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

If you want to get physical. You need to listen to music like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mKRYlCiRfo

Legendary

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:33 | 1413860 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

thats crap like most mordern music. bull queers and the boyfriends

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:37 | 1413946 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

ha.

I still have deep appreciation and respect for the classics.

My favorite all time bands are: Thin Lizzy, Motorhead, Iron Madien, Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Sex Pistols, Slayer, Led Zeppelin, the Who amongst many others.

Current music is really pretty bad, but there are always exceptions and many talented artists today.

Song was written after Bush invaded Iraq, they predicted the economic collapse as well in their album recorded early 2008... Great band very powerful lyrics. 
"Feed lies for war to bring a nation to its knees!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfPIc2inES0

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 01:44 | 1414626 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

thats (your link) not music.  industrial noise maybe. 

the so called classics, lots of elevator music in that category.  deep apreciation and respect? what are you a music history major

was on a flight recently and watched the buena vista social club going out and on the return.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:14 | 1412748 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Agreed. Just put it all in physical, cheapest form you can find, and go swimming for a while and leave these broken markets to the clowns who run them till they cant run em no more.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:20 | 1412759 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Why should I go diving in Micronesia?

My home in Michigan is already a mile underwater.

 

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:42 | 1413505 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

you guys will have your own Godzilla soon(ish) in Detroit.. when the nuke juice spreads around enough from Ft. Calhoun!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:22 | 1412767 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Exactly so!

Anyone left in 'paper' must have rocks in their head, or have a financial death wish!

As Olivia 'Neutron-Bomb' sang "Physical. Lets get physical!"

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:30 | 1413269 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Wow..., another poster just said that exact same thing. Freaky!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:01 | 1412683 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Welp, there it is.  Comex has lost control over the silver price.

That's good news.  Kinda needed some today.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1412690 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I don't do Proof. I want Bullion. Uncirculated!

 

And aint no damn house hold in any sufficient numbers can pay 60 dollars over 100 coins anyway unless they wave a credit card or a house equity.

And WTF does Paper Silver have to do with Physical at 75%? WTF does that babble mean?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1412752 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Good point, I didn't read carefully.  Where's that Racoon feller? 

Yo, Rocky, what's the historical nuismatic premium for the ASE proofs?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:53 | 1413937 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

according to CoinNews, last year's ASE proofs:

The much anticipated 2010 Proof Silver Eagle went on sale today at 12:00 Noon ET. The US Mint price for the proof coin is $45.95, plus the standard handling charge of $4.95 per order. A per household order limit of 100 coins is in place.

http://www.coinnews.net/2010/11/19/us-mint-2010-proof-silver-eagle-debuts/

spot was $27.36 on that day.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:11 | 1414158 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I posted my repy well above.   This "spread" sensationalism is bull-hockey.

Yo, Rocky, what's the historical nuismatic premium for the ASE proofs?

Very few proofs worth any more spread premium today than they were then.  The 1995W being the exception since it was sold in a limited complete gold coin set and the first Eagle with the W mint mark.  That one brings thousands, but it's an outlier.

I guess this will be available for anyone:

http://www.ngccoin.com/poplookup/NumismediaPricing.aspx?PopSubCatID=76&D...

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:48 | 1414470 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Obliged, sir.  You are a scholar and a procyonid.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:27 | 1413624 Gold Man-Sacks
Gold Man-Sacks's picture

I was wondering that myself.  I believe that what he means by "paper" is the futures price.  Since the COMEX manipulates prices, there is a difference between the "physical" price that one may encounter at a coin shop, and the "paper" price on the COMEX.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:24 | 1413826 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

There's a paper price called "spot" which is supposed to represent current price.  It's "discovered" through the changes in futures prices as delivery dates approach.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1412689 DNB-sore
DNB-sore's picture

Think i'm gonna export some Philharmonikers to the US at $45,- or 50 each

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:12 | 1412691 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yeah.......I always found that the proof version of any coin is worth 75% more than the uncirculated version.

Looks like the US Mint has finally realized they have a Gold and Silver mine and can gouge their customers.

Wait a minute, here is where they spent the extra money.  "Each coin is packaged in a blue velvet, satin-lined presentation case and accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity."

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1412754 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Proofs always sell at a premium to uncirculated bullion coins. They also come with a certificate, capsule and case. This is a misleading headline. Consult a numismatist.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:29 | 1412771 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've been buying proofs and proof sets from the Mint for more than 15 years. I don't remember the Mint ever charging a 75% premium over spot for their Silver Eagle proofs. Odd that they don't do it for their Gold Eagles even now.

The Mint is gouging.  

Their 2011 Silver Quarter Proof Set, about 8/10 of an ounce of Silver, goes for $41.95 and has been for a while, even when Silver was over $40 per ounce. The 2010 set is $39.95. Same amount of Silver. The Mint is taking advantage of the popularity of Silver Eagles.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:29 | 1412807 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Have you priced a Kangaroo, Panda, Britannia, or Kiwi proof? This is just a market price. The last Kiwi proof, the 2011 Icon was almost 100 dollars.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:40 | 1412836 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Then you and I are in agreement. The US Mint is pricing the Silver Eagle Proofs for what the market will withstand, not the cost of manufacture plus a markup as has been their business practice in the past.

That's called gouging, when you raise a price beyond your normal markup simply because you will still find buyers because of supply and demand issues. The US Mint is not a retail store that intends to make a profit. Their charter says they can charge a price that recoups the costs plus a modest profit which is returned to the Treasury. This goes beyond a modest profit.

They can and do change prices on the fly so to try and argue they are trying to keep up with Silver is BS. They were moving the price of other Silver products monthly when Silver was on the way up.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:43 | 1412858 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Or capitalism. It is a smaller market, but the participants are willing to pay a premium for its' collectability. You can always buy BU eagles for 6.00 over spot. For those out there that don't realize it, you can't buy uncirculated eagles- they haven't been minted in years. They may be coming out this year, but there is no set date yet.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:59 | 1412903 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The US Mint is not chartered to be a capitalist outlet or a retail coin outlet. They were created by an act of Congress and are regulated by Congress and the Treasury. I've done quite a bit of research into the US Mint and their mission is not to make a large profit, but to mint the nations coins and to safe guard the nations precious metals. From their web site.

Since Congress created the United States Mint on April 2, 1792, it has grown tremendously. In recent history, circulating coin production has varied between 4 billion and 10 billion coins annually. In Fiscal Year 2010, the United States Mint generated a record $3.89 billion in annual revenues. As a self-funded agency, the United States Mint turns revenues beyond its operating expenses over to the General Fund of the Treasury.

 

The primary mission of the United States Mint is to manufacture and distribute circulating coins, precious metals and collectible coins, and national medals to meet the needs of the United States. In addition to producing coins and medals, the United States Mint also maintains physical custody and protection of the Nation's gold and silver assets.

This isn't Joe's Coins and Pawn Shop.

And "BU" means Bright Uncirculated. While the US Mint has not produced Silver Eagles for years that they describe as "Uncirculated" any coin that has not entered mass circulation is considered to be .........wait for it........Uncirculated.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:10 | 1412943 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I know all this, but where does it say they can't make a profit? The market for proofs is pretty well defined. I actually feel lucky to be able to but eagles at a reasonable price- they are a beautiful coin. The Gold coins are equally beautiful and carry a hefty premium as well. Please don't use a percentage ratio, it is misleading when the disparity in price is so large.

I stopped buying Britannias- 96% and at a huge premium to spot. Pandas have become very expensive, but they sure do jump in value. A BU panda is at 54.00! 

I wish the market would become the sleepy little market of years past, but we have encouraged many to jump on the wagon. This is the price for doing so.

PS- Calling it BU doesn't make it so. Actual uncirculated coins come encased from the mint. For the collector, there is a difference.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:05 | 1413043 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Perhaps you don't actually read my comments. Please scroll back up and read my last 4 comments. I never said the Mint can't make a profit. Never. In fact I said they could make a modest profit by charter and that all profits must be turned over to the Treasury.

But the Mint does not have a history of gouging the public and in fact by charter are not allowed to gouge the public. I offered as proof the 5 quarter Silver proof set's more modest markup to show that the Silver Eagle markup is not modest and in fact egregious and is taking advantage of the Silver Eagles popularity.

Maybe you need to read some numismatic books before you try explaining to me what uncirculated and BU is. I agreed with you that the Mint produces coins that it calls "Uncirculated" including entire coin sets for each year that do not include the Eagles. The Silver Eagle, when produced as an "Uncirculated" coin, has always been produced separately from the "Uncirculated" general circulation coins.

But in numismatic circles, any coin that has not been widely circulated through the usual coin distribution channels is considered "uncirculated" and if it is in very good shape it is called a "Bright Uncirculated" coin. Since the modern Silver Eagles have never been introduced into general circulation they can only be uncirculated by way of edict by the US Mint when they produce "Uncirculated" Silver Eagles. Bullion Silver Eagles, which can not be bought directly from the US Mint but initially only from select dealers, are not circulated into the general publics hands by the Mint as they do quarters, dimes etc.

Uncirculated does not mean the same thing when it comes to Silver Eagles as it does for many of the other commonly used coins.

Edit: I see APMEX is calling their Bullion Silver Eagles "Uncirculated" which just adds to the confusion.

http://www.apmex.com/Category/160/Silver_Eagles___Uncirculated_2011__Prior.aspx

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:31 | 1413257 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Maybe the Mint made these coins out of silver purchased when it was over $40.00 per oz.  They might be trying to recover their cost.

I don't know how they do their accounting, but inventory is inventory.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:11 | 1413416 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Maybe? $59.95 is a nice round number I see in ads for "sophisticates" reading Smithsonian Mag.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:55 | 1413532 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

So, you're going to decide what a reasonable profit is? How authoritarian.

I have read books, thus my comments. If there wasn't a difference, then the mint wouldn't have a separate issue called uncirculated, but then you know that and state it above. Then go on to include a whole other class that is substandard.

There is a difference. Just as the burnished silver eagles from 2006-2008 were an uncirculated coin. Just as a first strike is a specific class or the SF mint eagles which can only be ascertained in a slab or monster box.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:05 | 1414155 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Clearly we are talking past each other. Good night.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:18 | 1414177 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You are confused, sir.   When you finally get it figured out you shall be red-faced.

I've been a dealer for over 20 years and meet you folks all the time.   Usually upon the circumstance that I have "ripped you off" for some reason or another.  

CD has laid it out for you, but you refuse to partake of the knowledge.

A fool and his money are, indeed, soon parted.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:08 | 1414406 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Sorry, Rocky, I don't agree. I do very well with coins and I doubt you have ever met me. I do my research and due diligence. CD is misleading here. While a fool and his money are soon parted, I haven't had to deal with that in a very long time. 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:36 | 1414450 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Good for you.  But you should get the nomenclature down or you'll be buying/bidding on things that you don't want.

http://www.numismedia.com/glossary.htm

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:44 | 1412865 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep CD and take that coin in the box to a dealer the day you get delivery and what will they offer you to buy it? Spot price, and let you keep the box and certificate.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:58 | 1412934 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If I'm lucky.

I always buy some Eagles, Silver and Gold, proof or otherwise, as a hedge against confiscation. While they are capable of doing anything, traditionally numismatic coins have been exempt from prior confiscations in the US and in other countries.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1412947 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Very few people know this. Numismatics have benefits bullion does not.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:41 | 1413071 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

+1  Silver coins have been an excellent store of wealth the last several years I've followed them. Panda's and some other "lower" mintage silver coins continue to done well, even as "margin requirements" lowered the ETF price for the banks derivative paper.

Physical metals are a cornerstone of many households emergency plans. Along with food, water supply, guns, ammo and the rest of what it takes to be self-reliant as possible.

Silver needs to de-couple from the notion of it being valued as an industrial metal, almost exclusively. As more and more people buy silver bullion and coins to "store wealth" from price inflation, dollar deflation and taxation, I think this realization is occurring.

Gold, silver, brass and lead. And cold steel.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:50 | 1413515 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

cold hammered steel that is then crio'd?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:04 | 1413762 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Very few people should know it, since it's a Goldline/Beck obfuscation of the truth to get people to buy premium coins.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:11 | 1413800 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

And before i'm junked by a moron, in 1933, only about 25% of the available gold in the country was turned in to be melted down and put into Fort Knox. The rest was hidden/hoarded. Not a single American was prosecuted and forced to give up his non-collector (at the time) coins/bullion. Why do you think there are so many Morgans still out there? Why do you think the current Federal Government would be any more successful in hunting down gold/silver owners?

Don't waste your money, just buy physical at spot.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:12 | 1414172 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

Morgans are silver, not gold. Only gold was recalled. That's why there are so many Morgans, in addition, the Treasury hoarded them at times to balance inventories when demand was weak and then released them 80 years later by the bag.

Can I junk you now?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:22 | 1414182 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Thanks for the save.

The level of ignorance astounds me at times. 

Just buy the stuff and hang on with both hands.  

If you buy too high, stay cool, time will bail your ignernt ass out.

Thu, 06/30/2011 - 07:33 | 1414875 earnulf
earnulf's picture

RR speaks the golden or silver truth.   I have most of mine at a very nice entry price, but also bought a bit when the price seemed to be going nowhere but up at $49.     So I bide my time waiting for my "ignernt ass" to be bailed because I believe that the fiscal shenanigans leave it nowhere to go but up and I'm taking advantage of the "dip" now to stock up.    Of course, if they would stop f'kn with with silver price, that time would come sooner rather than later.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 23:16 | 1414418 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

There are many ways to put together a collection of coins that can be sold later at a very nice profit. Collectors often want to purchase a "full set", but do not want to go through the trouble of compiling it. Some collectors just like to collect. 

Like anything else, it depends on what you collect and how. Don't see many serious collectors going to goldline/beck for coins.

While I believe in having gold and silver bullion, there is recreational value in collecting coins and profit to boot. Though "beanie babies" may lose their value, silver coins do quite well. As for your next remark- ouch!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:54 | 1414274 jpalm
jpalm's picture

I buy other metals as a hedge against confiscation: Brass and Lead

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:34 | 1413287 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Looks like the US Mint has finally realized they have a Gold and Silver mine and can gouge their customers.

 

 

Well, why did it take so long?.

Every other dept of the Fed Gvt had screwed us to death as long as I have been alive.

Never got shite free,or at a bargain from them.

Just bent over, and loaded up.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:03 | 1413974 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Looks like the US Mint has finally realized they have a Gold and Silver mine and can gouge their customers.

worse - they're mandated to use American Silver, and have been outsourcing to Aussie metal:

Precious metals blanks used to manufacture U.S. Mint silver bullion coins often come from an Australian mint, a fact which upset several members of a House Financial Services subcommittee.

The U.S. Mint was taken to task Thursday before a House subcommittee for outsourcing precious metal coin and bullion blanks outside of the United States, and for its "surly and arrogant attitude" toward the public and industry.

http://www.bullionmark.com.au/gold-research/blog/2011/4/00/141-Congress-...

 

apparently "demand" is such that they can't keep up ^^

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:08 | 1412692 Flore
Flore's picture

smart people buy gold coins.. Uncle sam wants you to buy silver.. so with that wasted money.. you don't buy gold...

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:27 | 1412795 tyler
tyler's picture

Your statement is false.  The exact oppositte of what you say is true.  

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:42 | 1413075 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

Every seen a 10 year silver chart?

What a foolish comment.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:13 | 1413806 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Uncle Sam wants us to buy silver, so the banks that control the price are keeping it nice and low for us. Mighty nice of them to look out for Americans like that. hurr

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:08 | 1412693 Gladio Insurrection
Gladio Insurrection's picture

Holy seigniorage and agiotage, Batman!

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:08 | 1412694 brian0918
brian0918's picture

I'm confused - I already own several 2011 ASE's. What is different about these?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1412700 Gladio Insurrection
Gladio Insurrection's picture

West Point proofs.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:06 | 1412705 brian0918
brian0918's picture

Well in that case, obviously they have numismatic value over bullion, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they will cost more than the face value of the metal.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:12 | 1412734 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

OH theyre prettier, I see.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:00 | 1412945 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Can anyone here, by looking with the naked eye, actually tell the difference between an ASE proof and regular ASE coin?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:07 | 1412951 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

In a heartbeat.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:40 | 1414089 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Totally different.  Proofs are supposed to show the highest quality possible to make coins and show off the skill of the minter/designer/etc. That meant a lot more in the 19th century than it does now of course.

Regular - http://www.silver-eagle-coins.com/Images/2004SE_large.jpg

Proof - http://www.coin-collecting-guide-for-beginners.com/image-files/2004_w_american_silver_eagle_proof.jpg

 

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:10 | 1412982 Spitzers Black Socks
Spitzers Black Socks's picture

Proofs are ususually made with special dies and struck more than once to ensure fine detail. If you put an uncirculated coin and a proof one next to each other, the proof should be obvious from its shine and detail.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:15 | 1412992 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Side by side, yes.  Alone, maybe not.  You would certainly note that the proof looks very nice, though.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:25 | 1414191 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Wrong there T-Mo.  They are distinguishable without even a novice's skill.

Current issues have frosted devices and mirror fields.  There are issues with this configuration reversed, too.

Big diff.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:23 | 1413220 Glasshopper
Glasshopper's picture

The Royal Mint Proof coins have frosted detailing so the difference is obvious. Under a loupe the difference between proof & UNC is easy to see, the detail is sharp and beautiful. Don't know about US Mint coins whether they the proofs are frosted. Another point, the Royal Mint is selling UNC silver Brittania's for £44

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:21 | 1414192 Dimeboy
Dimeboy's picture

The RCM strikes Proof Maples in a reverse frosted Cameo - very cool looking and unique.

All 25,000 of the 1 ozt silver Royal Wedding Commemoratives with the embedded blue crystal sold out in one day in May at $104.95 CDN so the market will bear a lot more than some think for certain items.  The key is in limiting the issue quantities.

RCM learned their lesson when they tried to finance the whole 1976 Montreal Olympics with sterling (92.5%) silver coin sets.  They made 28 different coins at well over a qty million each at high premiums. They never sold them all and today they are treated as junk silver - sold by weight by dealers.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:18 | 1412749 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Odd, but the Mint doesn't see the need to mark up their Gold Eagles by 75% because of their numismatic value. The Mint is taking advantage of Silver's popularity and striking gouging while the Silver Eagle is hot. 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1412938 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There is no such thing as price gouging. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you purchase collectible proofs.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:43 | 1413078 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

There is no such thing as price gouging period? Or no such thing as the US Mint price gouging?

As I have extensively noted further up this thread the US Mint is not a for profit retail outlet, but in fact chartered by the US Gvt by an act of Congress and by charter must make numismatic coins reasonably available to the public for reasonable prices above face value or metal content. They are allowed to 'profit' but only modestly. They are allowed to price coins in anticipation of the base metal price movements up or down and they are allowed to change prices if the base metal moves dramatically.

They are not allowed to price coins up to what the market will bear simply becaue they can......which is clearly what they are doing. Which doesn't surprise me when no government agency or government chartered entity seems to be following the rules lately.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:24 | 1413249 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

No such thing, period. It is a wholly incoherent concept, used for fear mongering by politicos trying to deflect the blame from their monetary destruction.

Walter Block (and others at Mises.org) have written extensively about how 'gouging' is perceived as an unfair leverage of supply/demand imbalance, when it is really the mechanism that maintains a balance (at a new price), and without the 'gougers' there would be no supply available at any price.

Valuation is always subjective, and changes over time as our needs do. What appears to be predatory action, is actually a signal to other participants that there is an imbalance between human needs and their fulfillment.

Now, about the US Mint. While they have a monopoly on ASE proofs, they are not the only producer of numiastic silver coins. You are free to buy from any other mint that provides you with the quality/value you seek. If you think they are all too high, then that means you merely value your fed notes more. As for their setting of price, they operate exactly like every other producer, they set the price as high as they think they can clear their inventory. Set it too low, inventory disappears in no time. Set it too high, and inventory does not move at all.

The fact that it is a gov. entity makes no difference (with the exception of political motives, but even then, it's not gouging). They still have to manage inventory.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:14 | 1413411 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The theory works, but it fails when you see the practices that occasionally result in the charge.

In a perfectly free market, the theory is correct.  Since there is no perfectly free market, there are problems here and there.  Of course there's some subjectivity involved, but market behavior is human, and humans are subjective.

If someone locked you in a cell with $10,000 cash and offered to sell you cheese sandwiches for $100 each, you'd probably be happy to pay.  Some observers might call that "gouging," though, despite your protestation to the contrary.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:46 | 1413514 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

The theory only fails when you mischaracterize it by removing it from free market theory. Otherwise, we are in near perfect agreement.

Your example, for example, is nothing but slavery, which even though you've added a monetary component to it, does not negate that fact.

Your statement that there is no perfectly free market is the precise point I would make in defense of my theory, because I would label IT as the problem. The fact that prices can be set due to political considerations instead of economic considerations is no critique of an economic marketplace (in theory or partial reality).

This is the same sort of argument that I've had with some folks over at Mises.org who consider Antal Fekete a "quack" for promoting Smith's Real Bills Doctrine. Every critique they provide focuses on fraud perpetrated by unethical actors, which is not even a part of RBD. Fraud occurs in all areas of life, regardless. To insist that a theory is false because someone can cheat it, is by no means a relevant test of the validity of theory.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:55 | 1413530 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, and in regards to the non-free market, I'll be the first to admit that it does have an effect on pricing. Which is that barriers to entry will reduce supply, while increasing costs. This, of course, is not gouging either, but rather an effort to limit competition to those who own the political apparatus.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 19:32 | 1413874 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Your example, for example, is nothing but slavery...

Those kind of clear black and white statements are kinda worthless when you want to describe the world, though.  There's no perfection anywhere.

Restricting someone's freedom of movement and offering them a limited range of choices isn't generally called "slavery."  It's usually thought to be the standard way society is organized, and although my example is very extreme, it's not much different from the life-experience of most of the global population.

MOST people lack the resources to move freely, thus are effectively "in a cell."  They are presented with a limited range of options for how to survive, thus they are effectively offered cheese sandwiches for $100 each.

No one has to hold a gun to anyone's head in 99.9% of our daily interactions, but it's profoundly naive to think that means there's no coercion involved in most transactions.

But the theory's cute, sure.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:29 | 1414205 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

In the case of the Mint the circumstances are a bit different.  There are actual numismatists who collect these and depend upon the Mint being consistent.  It's like your pusher raising the price after you're hooked.   Kinda hard to stop buying, and there is no other place to go.  One can wait for the coins to appear in the after market but that's not what collecting is all about.  So, in theory, you are 100% correct.   But there are extenuating circumstances.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:12 | 1412714 DonutBoy
DonutBoy's picture

They are for collectors, struck twice with the die.  The article title is misleading.  The proof coin price is not a measure of a premium of physical silver to paper.

See: http://lynncoins.com/proofcoin_article.htm

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:17 | 1412740 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Exactly.  This is a distraction from the real fireworks show.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1412695 CPL
CPL's picture

WoW!  I just got richer.

 

Where are they obtaining this silver...anybody know?  India and China have locked up the entire market...the PM market...not the paper market.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:10 | 1412709 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

the silver and gold for mint coins is mined in the usa.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1412814 CPL
CPL's picture

Anything that came out of the ground last year in nov '10 was already paid for.  With eight-twelve weeks delivery in some cases...again, where are they getting the silver from?

If they are selling the mythical reserve...or recast old coins...or the seized coins and metals from that guy they busted in Florida...that would make sense.  Otherwise, I doubt the .999 pure and that the coins are anything but nickel plated wood chips

 

 

The Silver and gold the US produces isn't remotely close to owned by US interests anymore than the electronics industry is dominated by RCA and Electroluxe anymore.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:13 | 1412978 ReallySparky
ReallySparky's picture

I have said for months that all those billboards around the country that read, "WE BUY GOLD, WE BUY SILVER", is a government scrap program that is two fold.  Divest the sleeping masses of their commodities, and make up for lack of production here in the States.

How about the recent trend in "home gold exchange parties"?

Okay so someone will junk me for the tin foil hat.  But the scam is so perfect and obvious.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 17:03 | 1413369 CPL
CPL's picture

The cash for gold is really the Pawn Shop exchange extending themselves.

 

Want to know the future of banking.  Pawn shop/Gold exchange is it.  It won't be wall street.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:32 | 1413663 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I kind of doubt that anyone in gov cares about accumulating PMs, as this volume of exchange wouldn't even be big enough for a rounding error at the federal level.

Looking at it from a free-market perspective though, one can ask, "Is this a legitimate business opportunity?" To which I would answer, "Sure!"

First, you are providing a service, that thanks to PM price increases, is both desired by the public and profitable. Second, due to low PM prices in the past, there are a lack of entrepreneurs to meet this demand by the public for liquidation.

In other words, it represents the dream scenario for the entrepreneur, in the form of visible, unmet demand. As for all of the commercials, well, how else do you make this new service known to your potential customers?

It really is no different than everyone melting down their silverware in the late '70s. It's just that now, the market has changed from brick and mortar to mail-order and social networking.

One of my friends that I harped on constantly to buy PMs instead of a house at the peak, came in one day to tell me how her and her mom had taken all their junk gold jewelry and sent it off in one of those mailers. At the time gold was just under $600 an ounce, and they paid her about $550.

Thing was, she didn't even need the money, but saw it as a way to monetize old junk of little value. And of course, she bought a house at the peak. (Luckily, as a bank auditor, her skills are in high demand.)

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 20:13 | 1414017 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

as I linked above, the silver used by the U.S. Mint is supposed to come from the U.S. - but they've been using Australian silver with no disclosure.

just like most of amrkn goods, outsourced.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1412696 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

there's a sucker born every minute, I suppose.  This isn't the paper/phsysical spread, its the physical/idiot spread.  Good luck selling those $60 silver eagles for more than spot.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:09 | 1412717 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Precisely. Someone should really teach the US government about supply and demand. Obviously they will be doing firesales on the excess inventoried (no pun intended) physical at $5 or whatever the extraction cost of silver is these days imminently.

Or maybe the US Mint is just waiting for that "imminent" reversal in the definition of Comex silver from eligible to registered. They should really hurry up already: we have held our breath for about 2 months now...

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1412727 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yep...only costs $5 to dig it outta the ground. :P

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:19 | 1412755 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Where is MethMan when you need him to second that declaration?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:18 | 1413009 akak
akak's picture

Really.  The anti-gold and silver trolls have been oddly silent here on ZeroHedge lately.

Back to troll school for refresher courses, maybe?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:28 | 1413035 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Some of the trolls in another thread did not make it to the Fence in time. They got junked to oblivion by teh resident Junkyard Dogs.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 16:22 | 1413184 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

LOL

Back to school for the trolls means how to more effectively make inane arguments with no regard to established facts and empirical evidence. You dear baby_BLYTHE are using reason and logic, never a useful thing for trolls unless they are dealing with someone even more inane than they are, an admittedly rare and very special occasion. :>)

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:17 | 1412751 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

no need to firesale - they have a great arb in place.  Buy silver at spot, sell to gullible ZH readers who think the physical price is really 100% above spot.  Nice business until the knuckleheads start selling and realize that paper really equals physical.

Where's the EFP premium at today? 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:40 | 1412849 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Last time I sold (about a month ago, to pay for some home improvement), I got well over spot for the shittiest silver I had.

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:09 | 1412964 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

O'Flanny the butt prober should check this out before opening his sphincter and passing wind again.

http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

Notice how Tulving is offering to buy at Spot + in most configurations?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 15:20 | 1413003 BrianOFlanagan
BrianOFlanagan's picture

spot MINUS $0.35 for 1,000oz bars.

spot to spot MINUS for 100oz bars.

He is paying a premium for retail coin products right now only because there are greater fools out there willing to pay even more.  In a downturn, that bid will quickly go to spot minus too.

So, for the institutional market and even for retail 100oz bars, spot paper = physical.  Which confirms what I said above.

By the way, the EFP premium is $0.03 right now - which means I can convert a futures contract into shiny 1,000 ounce silver bars at spot plus $0.03/ounce.

Physical price = paper price.  Not debatable.

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:29 | 1413632 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Physical price = paper price.  Not debatable.

au contraire!

Are you trying to tell us that Tmosley - ZH's foremost authority on the precious metals market - is wrong?  !!  

For months, he's been telling us that paper silver has decoupled from physical.  Not only has it decoupled, there is a 50/50 chance this will reach a crescendo in July and "paper" silver will crash to zero.

In fact, we've been told hundreds of times that the collapse in silver prices two months ago was nothing more than a "paper" phenomenon, and the physical price was about to go parabolic. Apparently, "price doesn't matter" and ZH readers should "buy with both hands" because the spot price is nothing more than a smokescreen created by Blythe Masters and Co. 

Was this all bullshit?

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 18:36 | 1413661 zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

in a liquid market, you typically expect spreads to be more or less centered on 'the going price'... for most smaller items like coins, but also small bars, there is a small premium that is just part of the fair day to day going price, so you will see spreads centered around this and not spot. c'mon guys this is not rocket science. 

 

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 14:26 | 1412783 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Tyler, you obviously have no idea how the numismatic market works. All mints upcharge for proofs. They are packaged differently and have a superior finish and strike quality. They strike less coins per die. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the spot/physical situation. In 2009, they didn't even make a proof because of supply issues. Congress forced the mint to provide proofs in 2010, when constituents complained.

By the way, at 59.95, these eagles are considerably cheaper than other mint proofs.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!