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Momo Quant Shops Hiring, No Prior Finance Experience Necessary
Quant shops are now aggressively seeking to expand as momo trading is the new killing it. So if you have heard of pattern matching and heatmapping, feel free to apply. Even better if you know nothing about finance and economics.
Jane Street is so kind to layout the specific requirements they need in a trader:
Trading candidates should be:
- Excellent quantitatively, with a strong understanding of probability and statistics
- Effective communicators in a close-knit team setting
- Motivated, competitive and eager to learn and teach
- Able to solve new problems quickly in the hectic environment of a busy desk or exchange floor
- Excited to engage in impromptu and exploratory debate on trading strategy and risk
Previous experience or course work in finance, business, or economics is NOT required.
And, in something that is almost eerily out of Wall Street Warriors, here are some snapshots of the barely legals who yank the market higher on every downtick, courtesy of Hudson River Trading.
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Qualifications; See lightning and hear thunder!
I apologize folks but I need some assistance- this is off topic but I do not know how to get through otherwise.
First, I need some advice about blogging on this site and, how to stay on Marla’s good side. This is the second site where I have attempted to become a rational member of a blog. I do not want to blow this.
The first site I blogged was NASCAR. The whole sport is pattered after the decision making process used by democrats. A driver just keeps turning left until he winds up back to where he started. He then starts all over again.
I made a major blogging error on this site. I told my NASCAR blogging buddies that never ever in the history of NASCAR has there been a longest line for a race restart. All restarts have only two lines of cars. The only way there could be a longest line is if there were three or more lines. Therefore, a driver penalized for an infraction which requires the driver to move to the back of the field, must line up in the longer of the two lines- not the longest of the two lines. (From the time a race fan is born, penalized drivers went to the end of the longest line.) While they were mulling over this insane thought, I hit them with the idea that the word “good” is an adjective and, that the word “well” was an adverb. I explained that blogging the sentence- his car ran good all day and it looked well after the race- was an incorrect use of both words. That apparently was the last straw. I received a blog written in sub-cracker lingoese. And even though I do not speak the language fluently, I was able to make out the words “fier” and “hows”. It appears that they intend to incinerate all my stuff because I believe these words are actually “fire” and “house”. Their version of the English spelling rule is- i before e and never after c.
I told my therapist that blogging was not working on my feelings of isolation. I needed to come up higher on the blogging intelligence ladder-something with some good humor. He suggested a site called Zero Hedge. Since I dabble in the stock market, he believed that I may be able to relate to the people who blog the site and, it was a good source of financial information with a dose of humor.
Geez Louise, dose of humor? This site has financial analysis & news delivered on the tip end of a bloody sword. I may only understand about half of what Mr. Durden writes but, I know blood when I see it and I know comedy when I read it. Mr. Durden is Don Rickles and Lewis Black handcuffed to Phyllis Diller who is holding an AK 47- I thought that it was best to read-only this site for a few weeks before actually making contact. Every morning I would print one of his posts, take into the bathroom, sit on the commode, and study it while I birthed the first lawyer of the day.
I finally grew some you-know-what’s, bought a 0H cap and made contact. I was somewhat successful in opening a user account. I was quickly told by the computer that my password was limp. I wondered did it mean weak.
I experimented with entering the blog process. It seemed strange that I would enter into a person’s blog for a link to write a blog. I emailed Zero Hedge to ask about the procedures to be use to respond to a post. I quickly got a response from a woman named Marla. She asked what post I wanted to respond to. I replied with the post heading. I never heard back from her. I began thinking I must have made her angry. Maybe she took my stupidity as lame comedy. I figured by now she had taken the information she received from my application and the cookie, tied it to rock and threw it into one of those black pools Mr. Durden writes about.
I was feeling that the frustration of trying to leave isolation was not worth it. You know, the type of feeling women get right before the doctor writes them a prescription for a life time supply of Adderall 20 mg tabs.
But no, I can figure this thing out. And I did. Now I was ready to write my first comment. I looked for the place to enter my cutesy blog name- there wasn’t one. I thought, how can you blog without a name. I went ahead and wrote my comment. It was lame and inappropriate.
I scrolled down to the bottom of the comment block for the send button. I found this equation asking for a solution to, -18 minus _____ = 5. My first though was that Mr. Durden does not mess around- he probably quit school because they had recess. Not many people born between 1951 and 1978 can answer this type of question. I entered -23 as the answer to the question asked in the equation. Nothing happened, I scrolled up to my comment and there was a red colored error information box. The error message stated that my answer had too many characters. The maximum number of characters allowed is two. It blew me away. My answer had 1 character- the negative sign. The answer also had 2 numerals. This is insane. I do not speak their language and I cannot do their math. I thought something is wrong here. I sat for a few minutes waiting on the computer to toss me back out onto the street with the SUNOCO sniffers. Then I thought about Marla. She doesn’t like me.
Maybe I should just put some more grease on the track. So I purchased a Zero Intelligence T-shirt.
The next day I decided to log into my account to look for some guidance on the comment procedure. My password failed. I almost said some bad words. My password failed. It is taped to my monitor. My password failed. I was looking right at it. My password failed. I have used it several times at ZH to log in. My password failed.
I was instructed to request an email for an authorization to change my password. I am not a happy camper at this point. The email I got from Mr. Durden was not soothing. I changed my password. The computer gave me an A++ for security.
I rewrote my comment, correctly answered the equation 40 + ___ = 80, and sent it.
The next day I received an email from Zero Hedge with the heading Do Not Respond. Sweet Jesus, is this the electronic equivalent of a notice of trespass? After a nail biting 10 minutes wondering what to do, I opened the email. There, in very plain English, someone or something was verifying that I was a real person, with a real IP address, and if I responded to the email my account would be deleted. I knew right then I was in over my head and it was obvious that I needed to apply something more substantial onto this track-maybe some grease with a consistency similar to elephant snot.
I sent Marla $100.00. I would have sent her flowers instead but I do not know if she is married. My experience with money and women is that you can use money to make them stay, and, you can use money to make them go away. Maybe I can use it to get one to let me play. We will see.
Now for the second reason I wrote this blog. The string- Augmented Reality Algorithmic Trading makes no sense to me. About 10 days ago, an electronic broker stated that this is the type of trading he does. I immediately disconnected from the site. I just knew I was about to get taken by Goldman Sacks or, Goldman Loots or, Goldman Assaults or what ever it is that guy does to people for a living.
My real problem with the string is the words Augmented and Algorithmic. One can have an augmented interval, but you cannot have augmented reality. And just what do the two have to do with trading stock? Algorithmic is not a word. There is a remote possibility that I missed something in 9th grade algebra when they were teaching Euclid’s algorithm. On the day we were being taught why and when algebra, I tapped Robin Palmer on the shoulder and asked her what she did all summer. She turned around, popped open her blouse and exclaimed “grew these”. Well, that sent me down the proverbial dark wooded path as an obsessive compulsive chicken choker. My math skills never did improve that year.
I could live with Reality Trading. Even though I know the difference between reality and fantasy is that fantasy has to make sense. I figured it must be me. All I need is a plausible explanation why people call things what they cannot possible be.
I heard my 17 year old, soon to be homeless, son ransacking the refrigerator for the third time in 90 minutes so I called him into my office. I showed him the string and asked him if it made sense to him. He bent over my shoulder, smelling like whatever it was he just swallowed whole, looked at the message and said yeah, what is my problem.
I asked him to explain augmented reality to me. He said that augmented reality is the woman I spend time with while I am wearing his virtual reality helmet. I ordered him to keep his voice down. He commented that this trader probably has electronic women on the site that look very real.
I told him to explain algorithmic trading. He said that algorithmic trading is auto trading. At first I thought cars? I said, you mean automatic trading? Trading by computers? He said that is correct. Well then why don’t they just call it automatic trading. He responded, for the same reason a person does not tell someone they are from the panhandle area of a state. Algorithmic trading sounds like a 35 year old single millionaire broker on Wall St. Automatic trading sounds like a washed up old broker who’s girlfriend, sister and mother are the same person (I did my best to block that image) and, he cleans his clothes at a coin laundry where the washers don’t rinse and the gas dryers have used condoms melted to the inside of the drum.
I looked up at him and thought- what happened to my little buddy who used to pee in the dog’s water bowl. Then I noticed it. That little creep was wearing the Zero Intelligence T-shirt that I bought. I said nice shirt. He responded it came in the mail a few days ago. All his buddies think that it’s way too cool.
So now you bloggers understand why and how I got here. For therapeutic purposes, I have angered Marla or the computer or both. And I don’t speak the language.
Would someone tell me how to stay on Marla’s good side and explain to me augmented reality algorithmic trading? Also, how do I add my blog name to my blogs?
Hilarious. Much more fun than watching the Pocono race cast.
unbelievable ... simply unbelievable !
junk rating for you ...
You got any mustard for them biscuits?
So you don't have a day job, is that what you're saying?
bravo, sir!
So far, 18 morons have flagged this post as "junk." Though I may have an issue with this guy's priorities, I laughed heartily while reading the post; that's a +1 (or whatever you blog-nerds say) if ever I've seen one.
Kudos
I've done you one better. I used my last name for my userid AND MISSPELLED IT!
Here is my feeble attempt at communicating the response you might be seeking..
Best to remember that when you see a sign saying; "Dumping, fine" it does not indicate this is a good place to pull your pick-up over and place your truckload of trash into the ditch....
Niiice work!
lol
Welcome to the matrix. My math problem was easy today.
applied, I have no experience so I think I should get it...Now, anyone got a place I can crash at in NY?
Yeah.
Not even funny Dude! I think you have a ID-10T error message waiting for you.
Tyler
I'd like to apply; have 25 yrs of financial background and a brain but I require the ability to lay on my couch whilst raking in enourmous amounts of cash, eating bonbons and painting my toenails. Oh and I won't *put out* to the SOBs. Think I qualify?
no ....
please email pic to robotrader for inclusion in his daily column.
thank you.
Wow...cellonw....just wow...
MOMO = molecular modeling?
cellonw
You gave me a headache at Hello !
Wow, when I read this, I understand why Paul Wilmott is afraid.
End game is near...
They look like a bunch of nerds!
Wait, what's that nerds? You need to siphon another $50 of my cap gains?
Um, okay here it is. Silly nerds....
They look like they could run a laundry in the event the market crashes...
Or, perhaps collect the coins at the self park...
lol ... and blatantly obvious thing is that 80% of them are Asians ... talk about stereotype evidence
i see the chinks and gooks, but why sand coons?
all i see is Asians and a coupla of white guys.
Anyways, get a life man.
Sweet thanks for the link! I am going to apply right now.
Can i get opinions on my cover letter?
ME CAN TRADE GUD:
http://www.covestor.com/mbr/oulous
LUV
=B
Saw an ad a few months ago (TD Capital, I think?) along similar lines - they just wanted a trader who was smart enough to use software and look at chart patters - instructions and training were to be provided. No securities course requirement, just a BA in whatever.
TD uses Goldman's platform BTW.
In Canada a lot of people don't even think there's a recession now - helps that GDP reporting is two months behind and they report monthly, not quarterly.
I always though that TD is Goldman Sachs Canada. They got out of structured products like 2005 if I've read correctly.
They are hiring people to sit around a college dorm? All they need is a daily newsletter to bring in the big money.
A tell tale sign of quant momo strategies getting toppy is mutual fund companies rolling them out. The promoters know retail likes to buy what's been hot for a couple years. See Nomura below sayint quant momo's been hot since june 2007. But query how long it stays hot. See GS below saying factors losing effectiveness quickly, so one has to take popularity into account -- read know they enemies' book and shank them.
Last month, AQR rolled out 3 momo funds for retail investors: http://www.aqrfunds.com/Our_Funds/Family_of_Funds_Overview/default.fs
Nomura reports that momo has been majorly outperforming as a quant factor since June 2007. Slides 16-18:
http://www.nomura.com/resources/americas/pdfs/quant-conference/09/JMezri...
Meanwhile, Goldman reports the effectiveness of quant factors has been dropping, so the way to adapt is to take into account popularity -- read know thy enemies book and shank them. Slides 31 and 33:
http://www.nomura.com/resources/americas/pdfs/quant-conference/09/RJones...
Prior post was me dag nabbit.
So... financial firms are looking for new employees who don't necessarily have a background in finance and this is bad? What is wrong with hiring intelligent individuals and then training them to trade? I would rather work with a very smart trader who has a solid background in mathematics, statistics and computer science over some one with a shoddy background in those but who already understands a balance sheet. You can teach some one the finance, I am not so sure that you can teach them the problem solving.
I don't think you get the point. You can teach anyone anything, either finance or problem solving. If they are traders [or trying to be] they got to understand what the hell they are trading and why, but I guess you don't need to know in this "new economy" what you trading and why, they will all go up eventually. Nothing will ever go down, or will be let to go down in dollar terms. The point is will we ever maintain the purchasing power and, NO, that is not measured by how many zeros we have in our bank account.
From this Reuters article "http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL04243842" "Zimbabwe two-litre bottle of cooking oil costs about Z$5 billion [in 2008], almost equal to an average low-income worker's monthly wage, piling the misery on a country also grappling with food, fuel, water and electricity shortages, 80 percent unemployment and hyperinflation."
I don't think they feel rich while they pull out [or carry in baskets] their newly printed Z$1 Billion bill. They need 5 of those to buy that cooking oil.
Hmmm... are you suggesting that quant funds are simply legging long deltas? Surely you must be joking. Jane Street certainly has not survived this long doing that.
You should watch "Open Outcry" sometime if you get the chance (PBS Documentary: http://www.pbs.org/itvs/openoutcry/story.html )
If I recall correctly, there's a woman in there who was Pit trading Euro's and she makes it sound like she didn't even know what they were. All she knew was buy low, sell high and vice versa. At the end of the day she was providing liquidity and maybe making a few dollars. As long as you're on the right side of the trade, it doesn't really matter how well informed the other party is...
Makes you kind of glad you don't live in Zimbabwe doesn't it?
JSP
Wow
Jesus christ, you people are idiots. Comments on this blog have taken a real turn for the worse as ZH has become the center of this 'HFT scandal'.
These places are incredibly hard to get into -- its primarily PhDs from Ivys (quant Ivys). And the shops are pretty good at filtering the signal from the noise too, if quantitative Ivy PhD didn't produce low enough noise already.
Like it or not, Getco, Jane St, et all are the best and the brightest.
Take a breath, dude. It's gonna be OK.
Rinse & repeat on Wednesday.. Don't forget to set your calendar
I agree.
This is exactly what is wrong with America. Stocks should not be traded this way. It's about investing in the future, not scalping nickels off the froth. All stocks should be held for a minimal period of one quarter. Then all you yuppy day trading scum would have to get real jobs.
Yes, good luck with that!
But we provide liquidity, at ZERO COST TO YOU!
We do so out of the kindness of our hearts, and for the betterment of humankind!
Like Captain Kirk and the Starship Enterprise, get it?
If you don't see how beneficial all this is, you must be a losing trader, an ex floor specialist, or a luddite from some California type sect...
See?
Go Team!
Good luck managing your portfolio with no bid/offer to trade on. What you are referring to as scalping in and out is actually just market making in that underlying. If there were no incentive to provide a constant liquid market then we would just have chaos. Just look at the increase of volatility in natural gas sense this whole position limits nonsense has begun. You lack a fundamental understanding of how markets work and you will do more damage than good voicing uneducated opinions.
Tyler I am wholeheartedly disappointed that you would even post this on your site. You have switched from providing intelligent commentary to non-sensical ranting. Less posting, more thinking. Please.
Less whining, more showers, please.
I may be daytrading scum, but calling me a yuppie is truly a low blow. That hurts, man.
*snif*
Oh yes I will apply for that job. Can I be a coward an apply under a pseudonym, maybe "Tyler Durdurrrr".
thx.
aww Dennis, or Charlie, did someone punch you in the vagina so you need to go on a little rant there cause no one wants to kiss the boo boo ..
When I see those pictures I have severe flashbacks from the dot-com era. "Yeah, they are young but revolutionary" "Experience? This is too novel to have experience!!"
Sure it sounds nice but the pure science quants I have meet were just as cocky, and just as superficial as their investment banking cousins. The difference is that they knew very little (or nothing) about the products they were trading. Worse even, they did not care about what the product was, just the thought that they could "model" its behavior.
The pictures have likely been taken from one of the classes in a quite average college. That's maybe not the point, jus' saying.
Flashbacks of MATLAB... Dr Phanord, unforgettable.
Is that a book authored by Death? I think that's him on the couch, wearing flipflops.
It'll leak out, just a matter of time.
coward jooo's
Stock up. http://www.securityprousa.com/poblboar.html
make sure it "point blank" armor.
someday, i'd like to do a little experiment. form a small group of half-smart third graders and set them up with online futures trading accounts. show them how to display a quote and how to use a limit order. then i'd tell them "Kids, this is really easy. The only thing you have to know is that the market is always right, and you have to take your allowance money out of the market. Have fun!"
that's the only fund i'd ever want to have a piece of.
You know cellonw does make a good point. Tyler/Marla often preach to the choir. If they want to speak/appeal to the unwashed masses maybe a little less cryptic talk wouldn't be so bad....
I'm starting a shop based on Rube Goldberg mechanical devices. No prior math or financial analysis skills required, but experience with TIG or MIG welding and combine harvesters is a definite plus. Preference will be given to candidates from fly-over states and provinces with a knack for brute-force . Also looking for consultants who can help with co-location issues.
"Our trading system will crush the competition. Literally."
Tyler,
Jesus H. Christ
1. Jane Street blew itself to pieces months ago and we've even absorbed a few of its people.
2. I hope, hope, hope you were joking about those bozos being able to move anything. Not a chance a hell.
You know that the way these firms capture any edge is through market making and scalping those willing to give up edge. If they want it done we'll be happy to make a few pennies doing it. Always remember, dear Jon Q. Public, any trade you want to make needs to have someone take the other side. And that will only be done if that other party believes it can profit by making that trade. This firm, and ones like it, have no information advantage and never have any speed advantages compared to HFs and Bulges. Your spouting off absurd nonsense about the wrong parties. Want to talk about things being gunned around? Look at the natural gas markets and tell me liquidity providers are a bad thing.
Both the quality of comments and the posts are depreciating rapidly. This used to be a very informative site and its turned the corner into a conspiracy rumor mill written with yahoo finance being its target audience.
What gives man?
your first comment clearly indicates that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Notice the shiny crisp spines on those textbooks. Kind of like the rifle of an IV league ROTC grad, never fired and only dropped once.
Most of these textbooks are first and second year undergraduate stuff for a standard math curriculum.
That doesn't seem very arcane or high-level.
I think I actually own some of those books.
Too bad I have a vagina, which clearly disqualifies me. (Oh, and integrity.)
any chance you are just upset u cant get a job at HRT?
they are only one of the top us equity liquidity providers.