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Moody's Says "Permanent Extension Of Bush Tax Cuts Would Be Negative For US Sovereign Debt Rating", Spooks Treasurys
Today's sudden spike in yields across the curve is being widely attributed to a conversation between Moody's Steven Hess, Senior Credit Officer covering sovereigns, and Market News, in which Moody's has given the point blank warning that a permanent extension in the Bush tax cuts may lead to a downgrade of the US, putting yet more pressure on the president, who despite having shown a conciliatory stance recently vis-a-vis permanent tax extensions, may suddenly find himself boxed once again, and without much choice but to prevent an all out compromise. As the market has recently been running higher on expectations that a tax cut extension is pretty much guaranteed, today's announcement by Moody's pours cold water over yet another "priced in" concept, which suddenly may not materialize. The net result: a smackdown in the 10 Year which is slowly migrating to all risk assets.
From Market News:
Clearly, an extension of the tax cuts that had been implemented by the Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 “is not good” from a deficit/debt perspective, but such a measure, if temporary, would not immediately jeopardize the U.S. sovereign rating,” Moody’s lead analyst for the United States told Market News International Monday.
He cautioned, however, that, “A permanent extension of the tax cuts would be a definite negative.”
And over the medium term, pressures on the sovereign rating could develop if the country does not adequately address its debt trajectory.
And over the medium term, pressures on the sovereign rating could develop if the country does not adequately address its debt trajectory.
Yet there is still some time to deal with this issue, Hess told MNI.
Some additional views from Hess:
He added that despite the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform’s proposals presented last week to correct the fiscal deficit and debt ratios of the United States, the important thing for the credit rating is “actual adoption of a plan” by the administration.
But he then told MNI, “Right now, the outlook for actual adoption of a plan in the near term is not good, although the dynamic of the new Congress remains to be seen.”
Congress must act on the Bush tax cuts or see them disappear at the end of the year.
“The deficit as a percentage of GDP is set to decline in any case, but the magnitude of the decline under assumptions of relatively subdued economic growth is not sufficient to stabilize or reverse the debt trajectory,” he added.
Besides, “The extension of the tax cuts is clearly not good from a deficit/debt perspective,” Hess told MNI, noting, however, that the
timing of their expiration in itself was not helping due to the “sub-par” economic conditions.So as, “Economic growth is an important factor in the government’s ability to deal with the deficit question over time,” he continued, “a temporary extension of the tax cuts, while undesirable from the debt perspective, would not have immediate impact on our rating.”
That said, “it would clearly make the task of finding measures to reduce the deficit even more urgent and more challenging.”
Still, the U.S. rating is not at risk in the near term.
“The U.S. has some time to deal with this situation, so the rating outlook remains stable,” Hess said, referring to the need to reverse or stabilize the debt trajectory of the country.
Check to the President, for whom the time to decide on what to do with the Bush tax cuts is, however, running out.
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Violation of natural rights on a massive scale is certainly a crime worthy of death. Members of the Federal Reserve Board are all guilty of the same crime, as are most politicians.
One other thing: do you even know what the word "communist" means? Or is it some scary word that you lump together with "fascist, "muslim", and "gay"?
You are an advocate of class warfare (a concept introduced by Marx), and have advocated adoption of at least two of the planks of his manifesto.
My best friend is gay, and a close associate of mine is a muslim. You, are a thief, and deserve to die. Sorry. Stop advocating the theft from 6 million Americans, and maybe I won't shoot you on sight.
You gonna shoot him with your cap gun with the bright orange tip?
Maybe you should reread Marx and forget what you learned in your one room schoolhouse, buddy.
Right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
Planks 2 and 5. Now go away, no one was talking to you.
what'd ya got against commies? thought you were so open-minded, with the gay friend & muslim bro....... somebody out there please tell me what;s the diff between a commie & a pig-sucking FASCIST?
Homosexuals and muslims don't demand that I give away what is mine with a gun. At least, not any more than any random person on the street.
Communism is an ideology which, when followed, ALWAYS impoverishes the population subjected to it. Islam didn't do too badly for itself for quite some time, what with the invention of the scientific method and all.
You know normally when someone calls someone else a thief there is a burden of actually showing that the other person stole something. Or even intends to steal something. I guess you don't feel that to be necessary.
As for class warfare, I advocate the working class to defend itself. I'm curious what sort of country you advocate where people can't defend themselves?
You admit to intention to steal 95% of all income from six million individuals.
If you really want to initiate some class warefare, might I suggest that you chose different sets of classes?
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/07/debtors-and-savers.html
I'm curious where you managed to see that "admission" when I haven't thrown out a single number.
Could it be that you are projecting?
That is the top marginal tax rate in the time period you specified you wanted to return to.
Or did you not realize that?
+1
I've gotten into it before with the delusional TMosley.
He actually lives in a trailer (location undisclosed) and when presented with facts generally resorts to name calling and other childish gestures.
Your time is valuable, please consider that many others have wasted their valuable time responding to his gibberish.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/trailer%20toilet/carebear3232/trailer...
He also claims dollars are so worthless they're flowing out of his toilet. Don't confront him with this tidbit as you can imagine the denials..
Whatever you say, liar.
I lived in a trailer for six months after my HOUSE BURNED DOWN, while I was building another one.
So you can go continue your circlejerk fantasy with Mako about how we are all going to die next Thursday and there is no path forward ever.
Edit: and the bit about dollars--all fiat money returns to it's intrinsic value. This is a well known phenomenon. I challenge you to find a fiat currency that has lasted for more than 50 years without convertibility.
I'm not a liar, in fact I know you're a liar because I've never stated that anyone will die next Thursday nor have I stated that there is no path forward ever.
Dollars are convertible to gold and oil at market price..where have you been all your life?
but if we all pay no taxes, who will pay to keep the roads paved -- passable for commerce. and to make sure the garbage gets collected in front of all the stores and nice, prosperous homes. and dump that garbage somewhere safe? will each state/city/county/street have their own private agencies for such things?
what if one neighborhood does a bad job, and therefore the road no longer connects from one well-run precinct to another?
or one neighborhood screws up their garbage collection and typhoid spreads to the better run precincts?
i mean, there is some historical precedence for the need for some level of coordinated government to run an effective and prosperous state. it's not just a communist plot my dear. use some common sense.
who is going to pay for all these basics if there is no tax?
Private companies can maintain roads just as easily as they can maintain phone lines, internet infrastructure, gas lines, etc. Small roads in neighborhoods could easily be maintained by homeowners associations. This is not nearly as big a deal as people tend to make out of it. If people really need the roads, they WILL be built.
The simplest way is to have privatized roads, which are free to non-commercial traffic, and charge for commercial traffic. This is how our roads are funded now (in addition to the gas tax, but the elimination of government waste will probably remove the need for these funds).
As for garbage, first, there are many, many private garbage disposal companies. Where I live, I have a choice of three or four. If I lived in town, I would be forced to use municiple, which has much worse service for higher price.
Garbage is not handled by a neighborhood, it is handled by individuals. People want the garbage gone. They won't let it sit there (but try to get rid of it during a strike by municiple garbage workers and you'll get your legs broken). If someone doesn't get rid of it, then they will eventually lose their property to lawsuits from sickened people.
The basics were taken care of long before the government stuck its nose in, and they will be taken care of long after it is gone. I'm not calling anything a communist plot. I am calling specific people communists because they are provoking class warfare (something Marx encouraged heavily) and advocating heavily progressive taxes, which is a plank of the communist manifesto.
That said, there is also a difference between everyone paying a tax, and "sticking it to the rich guy", by instituting a 95% tax on the top two percent, which would, in fact, put a lot of people in high rent districts like New York or California under bridges.
i'm so hurt. someone flagged me as junk.
Not me.
I think you're dandy.
Dollars are worthless. We are living a lie.
That's rich coming from someone in the healing arts. A curer of cancer who bitterly "really and truly hopes" someone elses dies.
America has been successful despite her tax burden, not because of it.
That may be true, but its certainly a far different argument from what I'm reading here where taxing the rich ensures us all misery.
America's tax burden?
You should live a few years in Europe and then go back.
You won't mind paying your american taxes my friend. Here in Europe taxes are killing us.
Did you know that the UK has about 10 trillion in debt? That's almost as much as the US but still it's a bit smaller then the US.
Tyler, If you give me a link or email where I can post my paycheck I'll let you see how nice Belgium taxes are.
Next year various governments are going to steal over half my household income. They get more than my family does. I don't need to go anywhere else for additional perspective.
The U.S. dollar investment in WWII was probably the most rapid rate of return ever. Lots of variables.
Thus by that logic then raising taxes and keeping them at 90% on "the rich" is just what the doctor ordered to get the economy growing and prosperous. You sure you want to go down that road. Of course during Clinton when taxes were higher it was great as long as you leave out the part of the economy being built on a big fat lie of Y2K and bogus internet companies that created trillions in false wealth that collapsed as he was leaving office. But hey, why bother with the facts, right.
There is a big difference in the top 1% and the top 2%.
If you live in SF or NY and are married with an income of $250K you are in the top 2%. But an income of $250 in those places hardly makes you wealthy. You can afford a respectable house in an OK neighborhood. Send your kids to schools where they won't get shot at/beat up. But that is not "wealthy" like the top 1% income earners.
lol you got junked by people who are NOWHERE near that number I'm sure. Good ole America, we're all millionaires on the internets.
The Bush tax cuts don't amount to diddly in the large scheme, but extending them would signal that there isn't going to be any meaningful reduction in federal deficit spending. MHFT called the top in the bond market, and I fear he is dead right. Unless you like chaos and insane volatility, the party's over boys and girls. Casinos in Reno offer better odds than playing in these markets.
True, plus in Reno at least avg girls bring you free drinks while youre playing. Here in US markets, youre just a target of weird old men bent on buggery.
Roger, Roger. (as in yes, Roger)
Moody's ? what a joke.
This organization has done as much as any to destroy the global economy. I can't believe they are still in business.
Moody morons. What about the profound decline in revenues that are guaranteed to occur if the tax 'cuts' remain and the wealthy money scatters to the remaining loopholes and incentive to grow and take risks is further hammered? Gawd; this ain't rocket science. It can't possibly be that there is anything else than a political connection for brilliant analyses such as this. Do you have any idea how much time I spent explaining to my clients why the AAA rating on their AMBAC holdings was meaningless?
@matrix
$70B a year is "profound" in the context of $3.5T in spending? More like a rounding error.
So that money must be flowing into dollars and stocks. Keep long equities as the dollar correlation seems to be breaking down for real.
LOL
How much you wanna bet that the GM IPO top ticks the reflation trade?
Ya mean my woody is soon to deflate? Damn, better get busy.
Here kitty kitty kitty.
God do I loathe these guys. Sign off on billions in toxic paper like it was roses now trying to make sure the tax cuts don't go though. Ultimately a bluff because the downgrade will only come after a collapse, but what dicks! Were already bankrupt guys, why pay more taxes? Newsflash we are already monetizing the debt? Trying to pay off the debt is like putting work into a car that is nothing but a twisted wreck, good money after bad.
that's what i'm talkin' about.
An energized republican party hyped up on Tea could spell a day of reckoning for the Fed and their funny money policy. How much are paying on the interest on the national debt? Even if we eliminated the departments of energy, education and the EPA--it's a drop in the bucket compared to the national debt and the unfunded liabilities of social security and medicare. The unfunded liabilities alone are in the trillions. Moody's is right to call out the US government.
Certainly wouldnt take much of an ill wind of opposition to blow over this ridiculous house of cards.
gotta be careful here. "the Fed added 200 billion to the Treasury this year." oppenents' hands much "strengthened" by "collapse of idea that Ben Bernanke traded in anything other than baseball cards." I have heard "he was pretty good at that" though. word is "go long the Bambino" cuz "that playing card is the most valuable thing on the balance sheet right now." i can't believe he turned it over "in the name of public service."
Uh Oh... Bernanke is gona' be pisssseeed.
Oh No, POMO!!!
However, didn't our largest creditors only rating agency already downgrade us? Not sure how this works?
Irresistable Force, I'd like to introduce you to Mr. Immovable Object.
Its all beoming an unmanagable farce.
"Our prior analysis and performance helped blow up the United States"
Moody's should be forced, by law, to precede each statement they make with the above.
I agree with a disclaimer requirement for these and many other clown outfits. Cramer has to disclaim his BS, why shouldnt the lame Moody's?
Suddenly $70 billion is a 'profound' amount of money...in a country where $8 billion is now flushed down the toilet daily and $Trillions are thrown about as just a minor upward adjustment to the debt quarterly? Give me a break, who are these clowns trying to fool?
.
Chart: ES and ZB
Hey Ben...$7.9 billion for this? You be da man!
http://99ercharts.blogspot.com/2010/11/es-zb_9618.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/99er-charts
POMO Day 2 looking like it will end in the red...
Risk off?
Looks like the front running POMO trade is over...
Shill.
This is a smack down of even the "American rich" from their real sovereigns, INTERNATIONAL CREDITORS.
Keeping all of us in line. That's why the top rate breakdowns are so LOW.
No one discusses raising taxes on the real creditors and the bailed-out. The plus 10M/year people. They know how to not pay the top rate.
CAPITAL GAINS, baby.
Capital is smacking down the productive, as always... Pay our credit, even after you bailed our credit out!
NO MO POMO
Fed to peons: We've Only Just Begun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__VQX2Xn7tI
Where's Paul Krugman when you need him?
ROFL I wonder what fascist cat food commission plan they are talking about?
Another fascist corporate whore chimes in. He's even willing to raise taxes for banks. Not to do anything. Just reign in deficits.
Of course, with all the banks solvent and never needing another dime from Uncle Ben, then all is well. Right?
Of course not.
Tea Party hijacked by Fascists (or was that created by???? hmmm). Barack NerObama and Rand Paul, fascist whores. Throw both the fascists out.
To the dipshits who think repbulicans are fiscally conservative. Who the fuck have you been watching run the country for 40 years? Obviously no one at all. Fascist republicans, and the fascist tea party, won't stop the fascist tide against the sort-of fascist democrat party. It's only going to get worse. There's a day of reckoning with the tea party ahead, but it's a day of reckoning WITHIN the party when the dipshits (well intentioned dipshits) realize they've been conned again.
Wow. Can you guys in america fucking revolt already? How the hell is Moody's still relevant?
Sorry, we're busy cowering in front of the T.V. waiting for shit to get better..
Oh my God - Mr. Obama, please keep federal income tax rates up...make them higher! This government is too awesome to be allowed to default.
- - - - -- -
Give me a break, fucking Moody's is going to scare me into wanting to send more money to Washington? I don't think so.
Raise your hand if you can think of ten things more important to you than keeping Uncle Sam's debt rating AAA?
This is worth watching. "Riding Europe's Gravy Train" - http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3139895
Tyler - it is worth a post.
" video not available in the USA "
Taxation without representation was bad.
Taxation with it sucks donkey ****s.
Representation without taxation is an equal if not larger problem- too many with no skin in the game holding their hands out their entire lives.
i say "no representation without taxation" and "revert California to territorial status." RIDE 'M COWBOY!
Could it be that the primary dealers are additionally shorting the Treasury bonds it does not sell to the Fed and the Ben Bernanke?
QE light / POMO day 2 = a miss, wtf?
QE light / POMO day 3 * double or nothing?
spooky... and black Friday is only 2 weeks away. Someone needs an advise from the Chinese buroe of truth, or else.
I guess you could say the administration has gotten to Moody's. It is now a political tool. Funny how passing of massive insurance spending spree had no affect on USA credit rating but keeping some tax cuts will materially adversely affect credit rating. Wow does anyone else smell something? An awful smell of mendacity.
Chart: SPX
Great job, Ben, you big swinging dick you.
http://99ercharts.blogspot.com/2010/11/spx_4645.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/99er-charts
Halliburton, General Electric, Big Pharma and all those massive corporations of SCALE that rely on the U.S government debt agree with Moodys...
whatever it takes, whatever it takes....tax their dogs if you have to.
We're in a vicious cycle where the most progressive thing to do may be to starve the government to stop the fraud. Not every liberal's first instinct, for sure...
Fuck you Moodys; fuck tax increases and fuck tax decreses, we are done ether way. Its over.
Moodys - same jack asses that had a AAA rating on:
AIG
Lehmans
Bear Stearns
Enron
Worldcom +++ many more....
ouch......correlations breaking down, cracks in the system? I guess the tide does not riase all boats.
ehhh, "correlations, smorrelations." didn't you get the memo??!!! "we all go up together like one BIG HAPPY FAMILY!"
It's the end of the world as we know it,
and I feeeeeeeeeeeel fiiiiiiiiiiine.
Is that the "Hotel California"?
A village is missing their idiot.
Can an idiot incubate and hatch the black swan?
Munis falling and 10yrs falling, o lawdy can this be the end of days?
Wheels might be finally coming off the bus.....
http://allbestlist.blogspot.com/2009/05/millionaire-statistics.html
Most millionaire's (80%) are first generation. Most build their wealth slowly and are not associated with fat cat wall street execs. Most millionaires have regular joe jobs but have chosen to invest regularly, starting early in life.
I make $46,000 a year not counting my current investment income. At my current rate of investment and if I were to see 7% growth annually I will be worth more than $10,000,000 at the age of 65. I have seen 11% growth in my vanguard mutual fund investments since I started.
I budget item by item and have $30 of extra (blow) money each month. I drive a 99' Honda Accord that I bought with cash 9 years ago, and it currently has 168,000 miles. I am hoping to get 268,000m out of it. I have zero debt and have been saving/investing more than 33% of my income the last 9 years. I am 29 and have chosen to live a lifestyle below my means so that I can reap the benefits later in life. Most millionaire's today have made similar choices.
I guess because of my fiscal responsibility I should be rewarded by being taxed into oblivion :) This is the problem with our government. It praises entitlements and enables people to make poor choices without consequence. However, I, who have made wiser choices with my money than 99%+ of Americans will see the most taxes. I propose we enact a "Stupid Tax". You make stupid decisions with your money and you get to enjoy more taxes.
The Millionaire Next Door. Congrats - really.
Responsible people like you have no need for government, per se. That's why an entitlement class is CREATED. By starting government programs, it gets people to buy-into and become VESTED in government. Those 44 million people on government will defend the government, because they see it as a monthly SNAP card. They can't, for a host of reasons, look beyond the monthly issues to the long-term.
Spend some time on a liberal website and their defense of SS. What they fail to realize is the government has FORCED them to pay into some sort of retirement fund (taken the money for current expenditures basically in order to ensure that they will defend the government and its current paradigm. What better way to capture people then to offer them a promise for the future? Without the government, there would be no promise. It's an exceptional mind trick...
Yeah, the government is nothing but a bunch of politicians who are charismatically stumping for special interest groups, unions, and lobbyists. For the people? It's 100% hogwash as the government has and will only always be for itself and its suppliers. Just look how the government is demanding its money rather than being willing to make necessary cuts.
A quote from the government, "Hey, I'll give you money now and so you don't have to worry about ever paying for it, I'll pass to cost to the next generations."
Let me guess, you're single with no kids living either in your parents basement or have 3 roomates in 1 bedroom apt ??? . I happen to have a friend who does exactly what you do. When I was younger I was lucky enough to have a decent salary, had a job at a Hi tech startup where I was handed several thousands stock options. I saved 15% in my 401K+5% co matching, cashed my stock options every year as they became vested and put the money in CDs at 6-7%. I had a million in the bank by the time I was 35. The down hill began when I got married and had kids, and eventhough our houshold income more than doubled we are basically living day to day. Why? because we're getting hit with higher taxes, have to live in a bigger house, 2 cars, more social/family obligations, daycare..etc..etc..My point is most people do not like you and there are more to life than just money. Who cares if I have $ 10Mil by the time I'm 65 if my bladder does not fuction well? what the hell am I going to do with the money? It is good to save and live your life responsibly but you also need to enjoy your wealth while you still can.
I have a $90,000 home. I have numerous friends and we all live frugally. We love having cookouts (You can cook shish kabobs for 10 people for about $2 a person), watching movies on netflix, biking, working out at the YMCA, Bible studies, and going to the beach (15 miles from my home). I am single but am currently in school for my masters degree and working full time so it is a decision I've made to be ready for marriage and not to jump into it before I'm set.
I find fulfillment in serving (soup kitchens, missions trips), remaining healthy through excercise, managing my money, my faith, learning and constant study, my relationships with friends, family, and church family. No amount of stuff will ever compare to the fulfillment I find in these things. No car or home or big screen tv could possibly make me any happier than I currently am in my life.
Frugal living was profoundly admirable in the pre Peak world.
Post Peak, you're going to die. Soon.
The New Normal turns everything upside down.
I don't understand. Post-peak isn't frugality good too? Or are you saying that we are all going to die?
@bug
"MORAL STATISTICIAN."--I don't want any of your statistics; I took your whole batch and lit my pipe with it. I hate your kind of people. You are always ciphering out how much a man's health is injured, and how much his intellect is impaired, and how many pitiful dollars and cents he wastes in the course of ninety-two years' indulgence in the fatal practice of smoking; and in the equally fatal practice of drinking coffee; and in playing billiards occasionally; and in taking a glass of wine at dinner, etc., etc., etc. And you are always figuring out how many women have been burned to death because of the dangerous fashion of wearing expansive hoops, etc., etc., etc. You never see more than one side of the question. You are blind to the fact that most old men in America smoke and drink coffee, although, according to your theory, they ought to have died young; and that hearty old Englishmen drink wine and survive it, and portly old Dutchmen both drink and smoke freely, and yet grow older and fatter all the time. And you never by to find out how much solid comfort, relaxation, and enjoyment a man derives from smoking in the course of a lifetime (which is worth ten times the money he would save by letting it alone), nor the appalling aggregate of happiness lost in a lifetime your kind of people from not smoking. Of course you can save money by denying yourself all the little vicious enjoyments for fifty years; but then what can you do with it? What use can you put it to? Money can't save your infinitesimal soul. All the use that money can be put to is to purchase comfort and enjoyment in this life; therefore, as you are an enemy to comfort and enjoyment, where is the use of accumulating cash? It won't do for you say that you can use it to better purpose in furnishing a good table, and in charities, and in supporting tract societies, because you know yourself that you people who have no petty vices are never known to give away a cent, and that you stint yourselves so in the matter of food that you are always feeble and hungry. And you never dare to laugh in the daytime for fear some poor wretch, seeing you in a good humor, will try to borrow a dollar of you; and in church you are always down on your knees, with your eyes buried in the cushion, when the contribution-box comes around; and you never give the revenue officer: full statement of your income. Now you know these things yourself, don't you? Very well, then what is the use of your stringing out your miserable lives to a lean and withered old age? What is the use of your saving money that is so utterly worthless to you? In a word, why don't you go off somewhere and die, and not be always trying to seduce people into becoming as "ornery" and unlovable as you are yourselves, by your villainous "moral statistics"? Now I don't approve of dissipation, and I don't indulge in it, either; but I haven't a particle of confidence in a man who has no redeeming petty vices, and so I don't want to hear from you any more. I think you are the very same man who read me a long lecture last week about the degrading vice of smoking cigars, and then came back, in my absence, with your reprehensible fireproof gloves on, and carried off my beautiful parlor stove.
- Mark Twain
"No amount of stuff will ever compare to the fulfillment I find in these things. No car or home or big screen tv could possibly make me any happier than I currently am in my life."
So then what are you saving for? Seems like those same things will be there later in life.
To quote Trey: "Can I live while I'm young?"
Maybe some people save: (1) because they don't need to spend at the moment; (2) they define happiness differently then FRN's; (3) they anticipate having different spending needs in the future; (4) they are preparing for a variety of future possible scenarios; and/or (5) feel the definition of independence is not having to rely on others...
The reasons I live frugally now:
1. Charity. I know through experience that giving is more enjoyable than spending. Imagine how I will be able to give later in life. Imagine the impact I will be able to have on the world.
2. Preparation so I can retire early in life.
3. Satisfaction of knowing my money doesn't control my happiness. I choose to be happy and therefore, I am. I find so much joy and in so many varieties of ways. Finding happiness in the simple things helps me to see how really blessed I am.
4. When I get to the end of my life I will look back. I will be asking myself if I made an impact on the lives of the people. I will think about the legacy I am leaving my children. I will have passed the knowlege of wise financial stewardship onto the rest of my family. What kind of impact might that have on the world?
5. Peace of mind. I know that I can go through some serious storms and survive without a flinch. I have a superb financial foundation that can be there for my family and other emergencies in my own life or within my community.
6. I could live paycheck to paycheck now, and I wouldn't see much in the way of an increase in standard of living. I can save now and experience living and giving like very few people get to live and give later in life.
I like people. I like nature. I like being healthy. I like simple things. It is who I am. You may not be who I am. However, many millionaires are just like me.
sBob, sort of an odd rant. He's saying that he DOESN'T define himself by his money, and that's why he's able to save so much. You think the 'babes' dig the '99 Accord (the right ones will tho)? And if there were more people like that, YOUR expenses wouldn't be so high. Your expenses are so high, in part because: (1) enough people don't pay their bills or accept sliding scales, therefore other customers subsidize them (a small portion anyway); and (2) the government doles out lots of money to people that 'need' it - that you are subsidizing. He's a net payer into the system, not a net recipient. You're barking up the wrong tree.
You need to spend if you want to save the US per the NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/world/asia/17japan.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage
Interesting interactive chart on how to balance the US budget.
Cut the troops to a mere 30K in Iraq and Afgan, pull troops out of the EU and Asia, cut spending on weapons of mass destruction (blowing up the world only 5 times should be sufficient eh?) raise the age for entitlements a few years and increase the taxes slightly on incomes over $1M...you are home baby.
Get er done boyz and girlz...don't make me tea bag you!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-grap...
Well, the Dow looks like it will roll over at about 11,600. The trend channel lines hit the wall there. Pick the catalyst. Either it will be a sovereign debt default in Ireland or a U.S. debt downgrade.
Moody's is full of BS, just like they were stupid rubber-stamping the subprime mess.
There's a difference between tax rates and tax revenues. The goal is to increase REVENUES. Hiking the tax rates will reduce revenues.
Top earners paid only 19% under Carter when the top rates were 70%. Today, the top 1% pay 40% of all taxes.
Moody's needs to get their head out of their asses. Who are they working for these days anyway, really?
You know, at this point I don't give a
goddamn whether all it takes to crash
it all is some fucktard from Moody's.
If Treasuries react like this to nothing, waddaya
think equities and commodities are
really worth?
Good Lord, these political threads sure do bring out the stupid!
But that's why the evil of politics exists, to divide and to conquer via incoherence.
To all of you who believe there is such a thing as a politcal solution, please stop being so evil, and run your own life instead of everyone else's.
www.regenerationx.org
Bloomberg:
Related News: Debt-Commission Plan Would Protect U.S. Rating, Moody's SaysHess now denying his comments.
LOL, fucktard.
Shithead no longer wants responsibility
for what the day hath wrought.
Backpedaling douchebag:
Moody’s told Bloomberg News after financial markets closed that a permanent extension of tax cuts first enacted under the Bush administration won’t lead to a downgrade in the U.S. credit rating.
“We have a Aaa outlook for the U.S. that is stable and we are not contemplating changing anything anytime soon, that is the bottom line,” Steven Hess, senior credit officer at Moody’s in New York, said in an interview today.
Yeah right Tyler... all your curve flattening crap is disastrous advice for punters. The USA is bankrupt, and Moody's is just confirming that. When will you recant and admit that the 30 year Bond is COLLAPSING !!!!!
sure it is, you shill...
You gotta Moody's confirmation subsequently
denied.
Right shill, the sovereign bankruptcy of the USA has nothing to do with Moody's. The entire yield curve will collapse, but the bond will be a disaster zone.
Idiot....
Just herding the Lemmings out of Bonds and into Equities.
I guess some of them must have something left to steal.
what was the original article about? Oh, yeah. Warren Buffet's "Moody's investment" and "I now downgrade you America." Why aren't they in jail? Weren't these the same clowns who call MBS triple A and then "declared free speech"??? Well FUCK YOU MOODYS and FUCK YOU TOO WARREN BUFFET. Now excuse me while I listen to some JIMMY BUFFET cuz I'M GOD'S OWN DRUNK AND A FEARLESS MAN!
argh
Battle of the fucktards: Bubbles Ben
vs. the bond market. Ben's a loser.
http://pragcap.com/treasury-yields-higher-jackson-hole
So Brian Sack can ramp equities with
impunity, but he can't ramp treasuries
to save his soul. This means the
idiots at the fed have zero command
and control over the PD banksters.
Classic bureacratic government incompetents.
For tmosley re the tax question:
Honest question: I believe you are engaged in the field of medical research. Have you ever worked for a group that received a Federal Grant? Do you believe that the FDA is a necessary organization, either in theory or fact, because it puts a seal of approval on drugs, rather than just force an ailing population to take someone else' word for the supposed effectiveness and safety of drugs? I ask, because you know far more than me about this.
I am of the perhaps mistaken view that there are some things government should do. Education is something that benefits us all, and cannot be done privately for everyone (some people cannot afford to pay enough to make it a worthwhile private enterprise). I like the fact that there has been some process involved in testing and approving drugs, even if the system is slow and not 100% competent. Living in SEAsia I have seen the sad results of the lack of such a government organization and a totally free market in bringing whatever one wants to market and making whatever claims one wants to make to sell their product. I think good roads benefit us all. I think some industries need regulation, and ideally a government agency would do its job and save us from unfettered greed (think poison dogfood, lead painted toys, unsafe electronics, Chernobyl-quality nuclear reactors, CDO Squareds). I am happy to be able to visit a museum where anyone and everyone has access to the cultural heritage of our country and our species, or to the wonders of nature. I believe all of us benefit from being able to see the work of Da Vinci or the handwritten words of the founding fathers without having to break into Stevie Cohen's house to see them. I'm also pleased that people can go to sleep at night not worrying about the sort of invasion from outside that has been the hallmark of human history. I do not mind that as a society we have ways to aid and assist people who are down on their luck, or who through accidents of birth were not lucky enough to be born with an IQ equal to my own. Yes, that system can be abused, and is abused, but its intent seems somehow "civilized". Again, spending as much time as I have in SEAsia, I have seen the result of the lack of such public assistance. I am not so cold hearted nor so Darwinian that I can say, "well, too bad for you and tough luck for being born poor". If somebody doesn't even have bootstraps, they can't pull themselves up by such.
In a nutshell, I am happy to pay taxes, within reason, so that these services and niceties can be provided. As one who has been lucky enough to first reach an annual income of seven figures more than twenty years ago, I have paid quite a bit in my time, so I am not freeloading off of anyone. I may even have received more than I have paid, however, in that I will never know if a government funded and FDA approved drug saved me or someone dear to me.
This is an excellent post.
My lab group does receive several million dollar grants for the development of medical devices (catheters, medical waterlines, and ENT implants).
The FDA has been a persistant stumbling block toward getting products onto the market. It took us TWO YEARS to get approval to put our product onto orthodontic appliances. We still aren't able to make claims, but luckily we were well integrated with our industry partner. We just shared electron micrographs (ie ultra high res images made with an electron beam rather than light) from our in vitro and in vivo tests, which could be placed in promotional materials, and it worked so well, they could see the difference for themselves. Incidently, these products were developed with 100% private money. This allowed us to move MUCH more quickly than with the other products.
Yes, the FDA has stopped a lot of bad drugs, but it also stops huge amounts of money from going into the drug development arena. Most drugs that are approved are "me too" drugs. The regulatory hurdles cost multiple millions of dollars to overcome, and most companies simply aren't willing to take the risk on something that isn't proven. Just too much money at stake.
As to education, not really. You are much better off having a richer society than you are having a poor one. The truth is that even way back in the 1800's, everyone got some sort of education, even though society in general, and most people were much poorer than today. If you couldn't afford education, there would be plenty of free schools that would pop up, just as they did back in the 1800's. These are supported by donations in addition to tuition, just like private universties were and are.
Absent government intervention, you would have certification boards appear, just like they do now in numerous private persuits. You don't see governments intervening in scientific journals, yet they are generally pretty accurate. Much moreso than they are likely to be when placed under government supervision (whereas bias has affected scientific organizations in the past).
The ancient works existed in private collections for centuries before they were bought by museums. There were and are many private museums. Their numbers would only increase absent government interference.
Poisoned, tainted, or otherwise corrupted products can easily be handled by the certification boards mentioned above. The vast majority of goods are not tainted, but that doesn't stop the government from shutting down those operations becasue they are too small to afford to comply with regulations. Even without product reviews, the age of the company making the product would be enough to guarantee the safety of the product. This is why name brands used to go for a premium.
Invasion from outside is pretty much guaranteed not to happen with a heavily armed populace. Absent government regulations, many would have even more powerful weapons which could easily be mustered into militias. Further, defense services can easily be provided by those who are good at such things for a fee. Absent government regulation, these companies can even provide a nuclear deterrent. Easy peasy.
Tell me, when you want to assist someone who is down on their luck, do you rush out to give money to the government? Of course not. So why do we need to have them steal from us to provide such services? Especially when they have shown that such programs tend to be the FIRST to be cut. Private charities are simply much better at providing these services. If they weren't, then they wouldn't exist. Social security would be enough.
Truth is, anyone that can work can gain a better future through hard work. That future will always be better when they get to keep all of the money they earn. Darwinism doesn't really have a lot to do with it. It is about efficiency. Simply put, no society with a growing cancer (which is what our government is--this can't be denied except by the utterly insane). Better not to have any cancer than to have less cancer, but less is still better than a lot.
I am an anarcho capitalist, but I am not adverse to having less government. The United States worked fairly well when its total spending was only 2% of GDP. I personally think that less is better, but I am certainly willing to settle. What I am NOT willing to do is to raise taxes on some specific group because some people are jealous.
Thank you for responding, and for illuminating the drug approval process. On balance, though, I think having such a process is the lesser of two evils, though that is just my view. A lot of things government does are like that. Of course I hate waste as much as anyone, but again I think we have chosen the lesser of two evils. Policing the system and keeping it honest is all of our responsibility.
By the way, I hope to never need what you discover and make, but I am grateful that it will exist if needed.
If you carefully read it, what you said is essentially what Ben Franklin said in his autobiography. You know, he started the first library, first fire engine company, and he started so many other, eventually, state and fed programs.
I am a diehard conservative, but I am NOT an Ayn Randian. I am a Christian. And so was Ben. Ultimately. Junk me you bastids.
:)
I don't have a problem with that. I only have a problem with the initiation of class warfare, mass theft, mass fraud, and mass murder.
I hate to say this but Greenspan was right on one thing from Meet the Press, and that is market forces will eventually make the decisions for us.
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It matters not. We know the Nation is broke. The big question is do we owe money next March or do we get a refund?
If so how much is the bill? Or how much is the refund?
Never mind 10 years down the road, I want to know what will happen next March and I want it now.
The system is beyond salvage and no amount of pretending is going to solve it. All one can do at this juncture is protect themselves from the inevitable shitstorm which will eventually come. I will continue to sit on the sidelines until after the crash and then jump in for all I'm worth afterwards. What else can you do?