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Moody's Warns That Any Fluff Deficit Reduction Plan Will Likely Result In Downgrade
Since we don't have minutely Europe headlines, instead we get US ones. And here is the first official reaction to the McConnell plan from a rating agency. Since this Plan B is far more concrete than the Gang of Whatever Plan, Moody's will have absolutely the same to say about the previously noted 5 page talking points memo.
From Reuters:
A U.S. government backup debt plan to raise the country's debt ceiling and avoid imminent default could still lead to a downgrade of U.S. ratings in the next year or so, Moody's said on Tuesday.
Senator Mitch McConnell's "Plan B," increasingly seen as a "Plan A" in Washington, would avoid any immediate downgrade of the coveted U.S. triple-A rating, Moody's analyst Steven Hess told Reuters in an interview."But the numbers that are being discussed in terms of any possible deficit reduction coming out of this plan don't seem to be very large," Hess said. "Therefore this plan might result in a negative outlook on the rating."
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Moody's does not like it, bitchez!
- but US stocks love it...., bitchez?
MOAR BULLISH NEWS!
Iran Just Invaded Kurdistan (AKA Northern Iraq).
sorry double post
sorry double post
HOLY SHIT!! AND NOW THESE FUCKING MARKETS RALLY??? good!!
RALLY!!! Because the more they rally the more my gold and silver will be worth when the big wet shit hits the giant fucking shit fan!!!
All your money is debt.
All your base are belong to us, you curs!
the housing market makes sense to me
the commodities market makes sense to me
all of the rest of it i have absolutely no comprehension on wtf is going on
Sell the news.
Moody's has become a rather schizophrenic organization. On one hand they release laughably pollyanna economic projections, and meanwhile their credit risk group waggles their fingers at governments over catastrophic sovereign debt levels. So we're either on the cusp of economic boom, or we're totally fucked. I guess that's one way to make sure you can look back and say you were right.
"negative outlook" - who cares? Europe on the brink, China overheated and in for a major correction, US economy sluggish. Mark my words: there will be a *major run* into the US T-bonds as soon as the first auction is announced. People will be dying to park their money over there. And Bernanke plus Obama will be laughing to death.
I sure wish these guys had miraculously decided to stop being pussies back in 2006.
didnt DONK force the ratings agencies to be 'credible'?
Wish DONK would keep these folks in line...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrH-Bp3N4Yg
In the next year or so...the politicians can live with that. Heck upwards of a 2 yr horizon....no big deal.
All these financial headlines that say '12-18 months from now' actually mean 'within the next week'.
I'd be impressed, but I don't think Moody's has the balls. I think it will just say bad US bad! and then go pick on Spain.
Right, that's one or more of:
1. A commitment to do something so far beyond the average idiots attention span that it's irrelevant
2. As meaningless as the classic pub sign that says "Free beer tomorrow"
3. If remotely close to a committed time frame, just beyond the next elections, but close enough after not to mess with the next round.
For the TLDR crowd:
4. BS.
They just need to downgrade it already because the U.S.A. is junk because our leaders in Government and Business have sold us out and sooner or later there will be a mutiny on the U.S.S.A. slaver ship.
Fuck yeah, throw us a fuckin bone moodys. My temp is 213*, I'm ready for some real fuckin change.
Ron Paul seems to be the only guy there who gets it...on Cut, Cap, & Balance:
First, it purports to eventually balance the budget without cutting military spending, Social Security, or Medicare. This is impossible. These three budget items already cost nearly $1 trillion apiece annually. This means we can cut every other area of federal spending to zero and still have a $3 trillion budget. Since annual federal tax revenues almost certainly will not exceed $2.5 trillion for several years, this Act cannot balance the budget under any plausible scenario.
Second, it further entrenches the ludicrous beltway concept of discretionary vs. nondiscretionary spending. America faces a fiscal crisis, and we must seize the opportunity once and for all to slay Washington's sacred cows-- including defense contractors and entitlements. All spending must be deemed discretionary and reexamined by Congress each year. To allow otherwise is pure cowardice.
Third, the Act applies the nonsensical narrative about a "Global War on Terror" to justify exceptions to its spending caps. Since this war is undeclared, has no definite enemies, no clear objectives, and no metric to determine victory, it is by definition endless. Congress will never balance the budget until we reject the concept of endless wars.
Finally, and most egregiously, this Act ignores the real issue: total spending by government. As Milton Friedman famously argued, what we really need is a constitutional amendment to limit taxes and spending, not simply to balance the budget. What we need is a dramatically smaller federal government; if we achieve this a balanced budget will take care of itself.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-slams-cut-cap-and-balance-2011-7#ixzz1Sa1npibu
Ron Paul is a fucking hero.
http://paul.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1894:...
How about just hero?
Nut. Shell.
dup
Yea WTF do they mean 'within a year', its NOW!
Why do we care what Moody's says? Didn't they rate subprime mortgage derivatives AAA+?
Because "Moody's" are the banksters.
Fluff me....no FLUFF YOU!
At first glance, it looked like the headline said "... Any Fluffer reduction plan will likely result in downgrade".
Moody's: "Keep my fluffers in budget or I'll downgrade you".
Repudiate!
It's not my debt. And I'm not paying it!
We don't have to, they print money and give it to debt holders. We pay for it, whether we like or not. The value of our money is the only thing that is going to get repudiated.
Sigh .... I know.
But as they do that, ever less real wealth gets created for them to skim off ... and eventually all bondholders that can't print money will begin to worry about whether they'll get paid off.
Then the bond market goes poof. And the currency with it.
There ... repudiated!
Then we'll get a New Money, backed by gold (in a basket with fries, maybe), except you can't have any of the gold and it gets issued as .... debt. That you owe. Forever.
How can our "New Money" system survive when it's backed by nothing but "tradition"?
/sarc off/
I like them french fried potaters-Karl Childers
How dare Moody's.
They would have gone bust had it not been for the AIG bailout, as they were a big part of Warren 'Thank You Uncle Sugar' Buffet's Berkshire holdings (as were many other intended beneficiaries of taxpayer bailouts that Buffet held, with or without counterparty risk made moot by Uncle Sugar).
Are these guys are even relevant anymore?! Hello AAA rated junk mortgages and CDOs?! The US should have been downgraded a decade ago... gold and silver never have to rely on ratings because they are real wealth bitchez!
Warn warn warn warn.
Just put up or shut up Moody.
Yup. All talk and no trousers. Let's see some genuine downgrading action.
In similar news...
Oscar the Grouch warns the Sesame Street producers that if they don't start adding more minutes to his segments, then he's going to take his acting talents elsewhere...
Somehow I don't think our "community organizer" is paying attention to Moodys et al.
I wonder how long the masters of this world are going to continue to let groups like Moody's propagate this extreme truth? Moody's needs to just move along...nothing going on here.
Well Mr McConnell, Chinas Dagong says US is already defaulted, so apprently they think its even more than an 'option' really a present reality.
Dagong Rating Agency: "The US Has Already Defaulted" | zero hedge
Same mantra as in Europe. We are broke, we can't pay our debts, we run huge deficits in order to chase the failed infinite growth utopia and to support the massive rotten waste in private balance sheets BUT default is not an option. I seriously question the mental health of anybody outside the political/financial elite who still believes in the "system".
"Pull it," says the government.
BY THE BALLS BITCHEZ!!! BY THE BALLS!!
CURB YOUR ENTHSIASM! and quit flailing around like that - ya look silly
Just like the Titanic could not be saved after it's sixth(?) compartment flooded, so the Old Republic can't be saved.
Just a question of when we sink beneath the waves.
Fluff that soft patch for all its worth.
So gold -$15 and silver -$1 after the BIG annoucement by the prevaricator in chief. That's not good enough, what else lurks out there to drive PM's down even more before the HK exchange starts doing silver contracts?
They're getting serious now. Either we clean this debt mess up one of these days, or Moody's will wet themselves.
soooOOOooooo not worried.
So, who'se going to be buying the bills?
Someone should talk sense into those our-model-does-not-accept-negative-values-for-this-variable Moody's guys. They've become far too assertive as of recent weeks and only cause trouble to the govt. recovery efforts. Enough of this chest-thumping and posturing. This is simply an unpatriotic malice and must be stopped.
LOL.......you are kidding I hope
I do.
I do. However, I have an uneasy feeling that similar thoughts may soon nestle in certain pretty dangerous minds... After all, the ability to develop a sudden new depth of understanding of just how complex and politically entangled the rating job may be is not limited to his holiness JCT and Greece.
Jul 19 2011 | 1:55pm ET
Vincent McCrudden, the former hedge fund manager accused of threatening the lives of 47 people with ties to financial regulators, pleaded guilty before the start of his trial yesterday.
McCrudden, who was arrested in January after returning from Singapore, pleaded guilty to two counts of transmission of threats to injure. The former commodities trader, who accused regulators, notably the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and National Futures Association, of pursuing a vendetta against him, had never denied posting an "execution list" naming 47 regulators, including the heads of the CFTC and Securities and Exchange Commission, but had previously claimed that the threats were not serious. But he had denied sending an e-mail promising to kill the NFA's Daniel Driscoll, a denial he retracted yesterday.
http://www.finalternatives.com/node/17449
***** "McCrudden's legal troubles began in 2000 when he was criminally charged with defrauding his hedge fund investors. But despite his acquittal in 2003, the NFA refused to allow him to register." *****
Score one for the FED's!!
Another Dangerous, Terrorist, Al Qaeda Operative that took away from the CFTC / SEC / FBI time of Watching Porn will be un-able to distract them from watching porn for years to come!
Porn must be watched at all times by the FED's and people like this need to be removed from the population and sent to an attitude adjustment center! were he can rub shoulders with real murders for years.. thusly after being released and having no way to earn an income and being completely removed from productive society and having nothing to lose.. he will then behave himself much better!
and we all wonder why the World is upside down?
We're up over 190 on the DJI. Apparently the money is more important than the credit rating.
It clearly sets the standard for the average consumer....
imminent default = Keynesian BULLISH
love it
Fiat rules usa - because usa IS fiat.
I am Eureka.
Take a look at the NASDAQ!
DavidC
.
Single key click, double post.
DavidC
That's what she said
from wiki: Mr. McDaniel has also been the subject of significant scrutiny for the timing of his stock sales. "If you look at his major sales in 2007, 2009, 2010, they are all around price peaks and followed by large declines. The likelihood that this is just 'lucky' is very low — it appears he is using inside information to time his trades,said Jesse Fried, a Harvard University law professor who studies stock trading by CEOs...
Of course, we're talking SOP now...
Well all theyve got is fluff, so downgrades are coming. In the meantime imminent default is apparently great for bubble equities.
Exactly Sheepdog, it's ALL fluff.
More can-kicking numbers games.
And I don't think it has a chance in the House with $1,000,000,000,000 (1 trillion) in tax increases.
What were the economic plans like when you were young?
They went on for ever...
...and the politicans always had little fluffy plans...
...purple and red and yellow and on fire and the precious metals would catch the colors everywhere...
...The most beautiful skies as a matter of fact...
Who TF woke Moody's up?
Where the hell were they and their warnings when the US administration of Fellow Travelers were running up $1.5 Trillion in yearly deficits, ignored proposing any budget for over two years (contrary to law), and flushed a trillion dollars down the toilet in pork and fake shovel-ready stimulus jobs?
Late is not better than never. Damage done.
if rating agencies fail (because nobody listens anymore), they will be bailed out.
ratings agencies = domestic terrorists
fitch made some recommendations to us recently and we told them to stick up their brown chutes bitchez.
next up, ratings agencies speech to be prohibited, as it will fall under the "dangerous speech" category----u.s. vs wilcox: the test for dangerous speech unprotected by the First Amendment is whether the words are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent. hmmmm, sure sounds like moodys may have to be careful with their talk of downgrades.
Congress cant put a muzzle on Dagong though-
Dagong Rating Agency: "The US Has Already Defaulted" | zero hedge
exactly, it is like when you stand in front of xyz's grave and say: there is a certain probability xyz could die some day.
encroaching stealth legislation - heads up!
thanks sabra1
Long JNJ
green shoots bitchez!
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Moodys-eyes-possible-credit-apf-3269364794...
Okay, who will put forth the legislation to nationalize Moody's and the other rating agencies who do dare speak out against the miliatry industrial complex?
Moody's Warns That Any Fluff Deficit Reduction Plan...
Moody's Nihilist 1: "No funny stuff."
Moody's Nihilist 2: "Ve vant ze money."
Moody's Nihilist 1: "Or ve cut off yur Johnson!"
Moody's Nihilist 2: "Ja, and stomp on it and squoosh it..."
now that is some funny shit LOL
Hopey is King Fluff. And don't me started on the Mrs Hopey.
You mean "Bullshit" Barry and...
Michelle "I'll Kick Your Ass, Barry" Robinson-Soetoro??
Just backed up my truck on PMs :))) MOMOs WILL DIE!
Same old shit - different day.
Why anybody listens to these clowns amazes me.
Long live the Ponzi!!
GOLD, only fools or Daytraders sell right now.
$2.5 Trill fiat printing/debt, and QE3 on the way.
Ride-em cowboys...
Agreed BaBa; If one is not in a hurry, in need of the cash or not tethered to margin, this is just another sharp correction in a ten-year bull.
I am flat in my trading account but wondering how much lower Au will go. I am thinking the official ceiling lift announcement might slam the price even lower. Not saying that makes sense, mind you.
Personally I think the debt issue should not impact GOLD either way.
Raising USD borrowing limit is actually great for GOLD and commods.
Lots of paper fiats, USD debasement, Inflation...
The GOLD move down on this theme is emotions/manip/st profit taking...
The smart money is flowing in and will be for many years.
I'm hoping it will drop to a worthy buying level before it turns back around and makes the long run up to $1750ish.
The tea party republican plan was too draconian according to Obama, and the gang of six plan is just right. Yet the republican plan was calling for half as much in overall cuts. Hmm, call me a little confused.
Proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.
Very poetic. But i prefer, " Cast your bread upon the waters and it comes back dough"
30-yr. bond going nuts.
10 b.p. move in just hours
Fuck that Robot. Look at Harley Davidson today! You had a large position, right?
What I believe is happening is if and when the Euro collapses Money will flow into Treasuries by the Trillions. Whether this is right is immaterial to how the herd will react.
Robot = correctly positioned again.
Who came in short today? Still shorting after all these years?
he doesn't trade. he posts on the internet. he owns mo, hd and vz if he is to believed. but then again he says he works for a bank. so choose the lie you wanna run with. they're all equal plausible.
Moody's is just trying to remain relevant. Kinda like Pelosi still thinking she has any real power in CONgress.
Our esteemed representatives will clearly recognize a fluff deficit reduction plan, since they are mostly a bunch of fluffers themselves.
This is what broken markets do. Insane.
Test
All the pieces are slowly being moved into position. Plenty of "excuses" now for when the US economy craters and the Govn are "forced" to act to "save" main street.
Prepare mo fakas.
Then butter the popcorn , sit back and watch.
Moody's : "Reduce your deficit within the next 100 years or else"
POTUS : "Or else what?"
Moody's : "Or else we'll be very, very angry with you. And we'll write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."
Moody's : "Reduce your deficit within the next 100 years or else"
POTUS : "Or else what?"
Moody's : "Or else we'll be very, very angry with you. And we'll write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."
How long before the waivers requiring certain institutions invest in only aaa rated debt start flying?
Moody's : "Reduce your deficit within the next 100 years or else"
POTUS : "Or else what?"
Moody's : "Or else we'll be very, very angry with you. And we'll write you a letter, telling you how angry we are."
Moody's : "Reduce your deficit within the next 100 years or else"
POTUS : "Or else what?"
Moody's : "Or else we'll reveal the ludicrous rating that no one has ever seen before in this world!"
the US should issue each American $One Million Dollars. And to make the Banks happy [happier] automatically deduct any outstanding mortgage, auto loan, and credit card debt. This should jump start the economy, allow for any new mortgage to be filed correctly. The Printing Presses are running non-stop anyhow, so might as well give this a try.
This is strictly an Internal measure. A lot can be done when its only National
[ its only about 300 million million. Haven't we misplaced this amount a few times. You know I was joking around...but............
But.. but... that money has already been blown.
A million bucks to us all? KEWL! 666 ounces more or less or 55 pounds of gold please. And make that delivery FAST.
I heard on the radio this plan from "the gang" does very little to solve the massive waste and unnecessary gubberment expansion. I am waiting for more thoughtful critiques on ZH and other financial Blogs.
I expect gold, siulver, oil, etc will keep rising as protection against the falling of all currencies (excpet maybe the Swiss franc and Canadian dollar).
warren buffett on how to limit debt:
“The way to limit debt is by taking in revenues that are appropriate in relation to your expenditures,”
anyone else see a problem with his logic?
that's one way
another way is to cut expenditures to decrease debt.
US needs to do both
but thanks to wall st. fake economy, bubble burst and politicians don't want to do either.
Believe me: as soon as the first auction of fresh US debt is announced, people will run into it. No hyperinflation, no gold and silver through the roof, no QE3 needed. People will rush to buy T-bonds, Americans at least as hard as others, although they are against a higher debt ceiling. No matter the interest is just 2% or even negative. All the fuzz about a default and the rest is useless.
fresh US debt is QE. nobody is buying that except our own Fed through banks.
Bernanke already gave QE 2 with a warning to politicians, but as usual pols just kicked the can down the road.
Moodys=Global Jihad
Note to all "ratings" agencies....why don't you feck off, nobody is listening tp you anymore.
That is "FUCK OFF" not feck. You are running with da big boys now.