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More Attacks On Online Free Speech? Justice Department Subpoenas Site's Visitors IP Addresses

Tyler Durden's picture


CBS reports that the Justice department has submitted a subpoena request to demanding the site turn over all reader visit details on June 25, 2008. Furthermore, the Justice Department had demanded that the site do so without even disclosing the existence of the subpoena. Without even bringing up the question of just how far into the "1984" rabbit hole our society has gone based on this development, this situation raises numerous questions about the anonymity of not only Internet browsing (at least that based in the US), but the transacting in visitor records behind the scenes. If this one case has made it to the public, one wonders how many other comparable gag order-cum-subpoeans the Justice Department has sent out to other websites?

Just who is this Indymedia? According to CBS it is a left-of-center amalgamation of journalists and advocates that – according to their principles of unity and mission statement – work toward "promoting social and economic justice" and "social change."

More from CBS:

"I didn't think anything we were doing was worthy of any (federal) attention," [Kristina Clair, a 34-year old Linux administrator living in Philadelphia who provides free server space for] said in a telephone interview with
on Monday. After talking to other Indymedia volunteers, Clair ended up
calling the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco, which
represented her at no cost.

Under long-standing Justice Department guidelines,
subpoenas to members of the news media are supposed to receive special
treatment. One portion of the guidelines, for instance, says that "no
subpoena may be issued to any member of the news media" without "the
express authorization of the attorney general" – that would be current
attorney general Eric Holder – and subpoenas should be "directed at material information regarding a limited subject matter."

And the following odd development:

Lucy Dalglish, the executive director of the Reporters Committee for Freedom of The Press,
said a gag order to a news organization wouldn't stand up in court: "If
you get a subpoena and you're a journalist, they can't gag you."

Dalglish said that a subpoena being issued and withdrawn is not
unprecedented. "I have seen any number of these things withdrawn when
counsel for someone who is claiming a reporter's privilege says, 'Can
you tell me the date you got approval from the attorney general's
office'... I'm willing to chalk this up to bad lawyering on the part of
the DOJ, or just not thinking."

Making this investigation more mysterious is that is
an aggregation site, meaning articles that appear on it were published
somewhere else first, and there's no hint about what sparked the
criminal probe. Clair, the system administrator, says that no IP
(Internet Protocol) addresses are recorded for, and non-IP
address logs are kept for a few weeks and then discarded.

And this is where the story gets a little surreal, courtesy of an update from CBS:

A Justice Department official familiar with this subpoena just told me
that the attorney general's office never saw it and that it had not
been submitted to the department's headquarters in Washington, D.C. for
review. If that's correct, it suggests that U.S. Attorney Tim Morrison
and Assistant U.S. Attorney Doris Pryor did not follow department regulations
requiring the "express authorization of the attorney general" for media
subpoenas -- and it means that neither Attorney General Eric Holder nor
Acting Attorney General Mark Filip were involved. I wouldn't be
surprised to see an internal investigation by the Office of Professional Responsibility; my source would not confirm or deny that.

Whether or not this is an example of the administration flagrantly ignoring proper legal procedure, or someone in charge believing they have a little more power than the Constitution afforded them, will presumably soon be made clear. Yet, we hope for the sake of their readers, that other comparable borderline-activist websites have sufficient protections to stand up to this form of bullying. There is a reason Zero Hedge maintains and operates its infrastructure entirely overseas.

Full subpoena:



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Wed, 11/11/2009 - 12:58 | 127125 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Oh great the EFF.  Good luck with that Kristina.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:13 | 127417 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

bugs, curious, what's wrong with the EFF? 

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 18:23 | 127631 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Fatwa on you for invoking a miserable outcome ....

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 21:09 | 127834 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Well come back! Where have you been? I'm missing the promised daily European update.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:05 | 127136 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

I suspect this will turn out to actually be a local prosecutor overstepping his bounds.  However, the W. Bush regime set the tone for this sort of thing, and the Obama regime has done absolutely zilch to change that tone for the better.

Thanks ZH for posting a PDF of the subpoena.  I've seen this story several other places but none had the actual subpoena.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:26 | 127526 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Well, surprise surprise, U.S. Attorney Tim Morrison is a Bush appointee. In fact, last time I checked, all the current U.S. Attorneys are still Bush appointees, owing to the fact that certain Senators are blocking any confirmation attempts for their replacements. Historically, custom has all U.S. Attorneys present their resignations at the change of administrations. This last time, not only did that not happen, but at least one threatened not to go even if fired.

So, yeah, Obama and pals aren't doing much in terms of wielding the broom, but there is also unprecedented obstruction going on.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 19:59 | 127755 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Damn, politics is quite the blood sport. Rogue soldiers fragging the new General. Whoodathunkit ??

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 20:40 | 127799 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Just got around to looking at the subpoena.  Not only is the above correct, I believe, but the subpoena was issued 3 days after Obama took office.  I don't see this particular abuse having anything to do with the Obama administration.

Thu, 11/12/2009 - 07:32 | 128260 TumblingDice
TumblingDice's picture

So hard to get things done with a supermajority.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 22:18 | 127901 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

You said something bad about obama

You said zilch

You are on the list

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:09 | 127141 E pluribus unum
E pluribus unum's picture

It appears that Eric Holder has about the same degree of competence as Little Timmy Geithner. I can't wait till these guys take over my heathcare too.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:15 | 127307 mitack
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:13 | 127147 lsbumblebee
lsbumblebee's picture

I couldn't find any mention of this on their website. I wonder why 6-25-08 is so interesting to the fascists.

Thu, 11/12/2009 - 05:40 | 128225 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

fyi, 6/25/08 was a massive mobilization for the Obama campaign staffers in all 50 states for the general. Hillary had just given up and there was a push to get everyone in place by 7/1 so a huge amount of hiring and transfer of personnel went on that week. probably unrelated.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:17 | 127153 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Anyone who thinks this is new or that
it dates from the Bush administration
or that they are safe offshore has not
been paying attention. 

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:47 | 127263 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Thank you. You are absolutely correct. Forget Bush vs. O. Google NWO, CFR, Bohemian Grove, Creature from Jekyll Island. This has been going on for a long, long time. Both Dems and Reps bow to the owl. Wake up, America.

PS: I am using an IP address spoof, so fuck off, Justice

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:22 | 127160 justrichard
justrichard's picture can be an interesting source of alternative perspectives.  Though not exactly the last bastion of capitalist theology (thanks ZH), they do cover often ignored stories like the murder of journalist Bradley Will and their passion seems to be fueled by notions of fairness, transparency and justice.  Worth a look...

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:24 | 127161 mdtrader
mdtrader's picture

Anonymity & internet, that's an oxymoron.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:23 | 127162 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

keep updating... I want to know where this goes. Could be the unleashing of the Justice Department on the internet. THERE WOULD BE NO STOPPING IT!!!

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:24 | 127165 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Everyone peel the onion. Go long Tor proxies and encryption.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:28 | 127168 Rainman
Rainman's picture

This will be an easy fix for our gubmint masters. Simply change those pesky, long-standing Justice Department guidelines on media subpoenas and force the Supreme Court to sort it out.

After all, this is the administration of " change ", ain't it ??

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:34 | 127177 docj
docj's picture

And "hope", too.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:29 | 127169 tradertim
tradertim's picture

TD..u won't give them my IP address when they come after u next will u??

should i start using software on this site?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:26 | 127242 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

tyler is cool. he would never give any of us up even if the jack booted thugs stuck a cold steel revolver barrel up against his temple and pulled the hammer back...:)

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 22:25 | 127908 Miyagi_san
Miyagi_san's picture

The best way is a buyout with a gag order and non compete. Then were all bitches to the man ...I believe they already have a profile on me and many others. Starve the beast and the meek shall inherit the earth.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:30 | 127171 Catullus
Catullus's picture

You are hereby commanded...

"I understand that this is voluntary on my part and I may appear before the Grand Jury with expenses paid as provided by United States statues."


Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:51 | 127195 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

"Send the bill to uncle Bennie if you don't like it!"

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:45 | 127175 Oxytan
Oxytan's picture

Warning signs ... warning signs.

Liechtenstein heh?  Glad to see once again that ZH is thinking several moves ahead in the chess game.  Seems like you are aware of what happens when TSHTF.  Kudos to Marla and Ty.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:34 | 127178 ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

Perhaps we should take a moment to remember the USA veterans both passed on and still alive (as the day in the USA is intended) - but other countries as well - who have never questioned orders and fought to preserve the freedom of speech along with so many other of our freedoms.  Freedoms that seem to be under increasing attack each day from the creeping "corporatism" (no one word can describe the rot) that infects our country.

As soldiers you did not and do not question orders even if those orders send you in harms way to engage in conflicts that may not be worthy of the term war.  You have my unyielding gratitude even if I disagree with the politicians whose actions result in the harm you find yourselves placed in.

A special salute to all the ZH veterans.




Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:57 | 127201 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

as a soldier you do not question orders? what kind of tripe is that? you take a oath to the constitution of the united states? have you ever read it?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:18 | 127429 nicholsong
nicholsong's picture

as a soldier you do not question orders? what kind of tripe is that? you take a oath to the constitution of the united states? have you ever read it?

...Apparently hasn't read the UCMJ either.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:39 | 127185 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I've just got to say that I find this totally outrageous. People don't realize how badly their rights are being trampled because they don't bother to be informed. This is a nation of complete idiots run by liars and criminals.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:46 | 127188 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I bet this is the tip of the iceberg. TD, ya gonna give us a heads up if they try to gag you? I'm glad I haven't posted my Social Security number on this site. Whew. Yet.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:48 | 127189 Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

With all of the information being disseminated by ZH, does anyone want to set an over/under line for how many weeks before Tyler and ZH receive a "Season's Greetings" from the DOJ?  I suppose you know that you're doing your job when people try to shut you up.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:28 | 127529 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Actually, ZH is doing THEIR job! (THEIR being the DOJ, the f--king losers)


Thu, 11/12/2009 - 00:58 | 128020 Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

Great point.  So, if one man (Tyler Durden) is able to perform the task of the entire DOJ, then what the hell do we have to look forward to when Obamacare takes up 21%+ of our entire economy?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 13:50 | 127194 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

The subpoena brings up an interesting question.  If you get subpoena'd from across the nation and you can not afford the cost of travel, what happens then?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:07 | 127213 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Then justice will be served by the Traveling Judge, just as it was in the Frontier Days. Da Judge will come to town , work through 400 computer perp cases, then move on to the next town. Takes time, but it is efficient.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:01 | 127204 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Is there ANY doubt left in anyone's mind at this point that the United States is nothing but an open-air PRISON.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:28 | 127227 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

And when wasn't it an open air prison?!? The late George Carlin had a great skit on the American Dream which was taken off YouTube. If you can find it, please post it here. It's an absolute must watch. He said it best, "it's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it". Where is the ACLU when you really need them???

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:38 | 127352 MinnesotaNice
MinnesotaNice's picture

That was just great... everyone should see that at least once...

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 23:31 | 127950 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

+1 for great justice

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:45 | 127260 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

"it's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it"

Truer words were never spoken.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:32 | 127540 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

The ACLU...! Why, they are the advisors to the warden.



Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:24 | 127241 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

hey gordon,

it always has been, just a matter of degree....

freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose..
janis joplin...

get rid of the damn fed and watch as the world gets a new lease on is just that simple.....

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:51 | 127270 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Well, it is of the highest degree in America now. You can't fucking lift a finger without breaking a "law" of some sort these days.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:42 | 127360 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

you think its bad now? wait until they pass the carbon tax...

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:25 | 127436 nicholsong
nicholsong's picture

Ever seen Brazil?  There's a great scene where Harry Tuttle says "Now they got the whole country sectioned off with paperwork; can't make a move without a form."  He says this as he is being pursued as a terrorist for his freelance heating engineer ways.

Ah, here it is:

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:39 | 127550 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it."

Atlas Shrugged

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:03 | 127206 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What's volume like today?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:10 | 127220 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Piss the right people off and you could be on Mars for all the state managers care. They'll still get you with their straight out of the mafia ways.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:21 | 127234 deadhead
deadhead's picture

I think the Treasury Secretary of the United States today made a bold move in proving that free speech is still okay in america by lying through his teeth for the trillionth time about his "deep" passion to maintain a strong dollar.

hey, if you are the Treasury Secy and can lie and prevaricate constantly, it must be still okay to have free speech, right?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:37 | 127254 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Sure, but only if you're part of the ruling oligarchy.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:18 | 127312 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

If I am Timmahy, I do not want to meet deadhead in a dark alley. Deadhead clearly hates liars like Tim with a special passion. It's funny, all the crimes, each of us have something that will really trigger us and stick in our craw. DH, you are special pissed. I can feel it coming out of my computer screen. You have featured Tim in more than one post now.

The only reason I comment, is DH is someone who will make me feel ashamed when he can be reasonable addressing someone while everyone else is going off negative and counter productive. If DH hates you, so goes the nation.

Fucking tax cheating, lying assed, prick-punk-bastard, little twit.

Some more hate!

I dare you to try to find his actual height on the web. I tried. His height has actually been edited at some sites. They all disagree. I have seen 5-2 through 5-8 listed.

I don't mind someone of small stature, each height has pluses and minuses. What I find amazing is it is being obfuscated.

Cheat on taxes, cheat on height, what else (like I don't know). A hahahahahahahahahahahah!

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:09 | 127408 tip e. canoe
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:22 | 127236 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Maybe this action was a complete throwaway by the Feds, intended solely to send a signal to whomever they're targeting, in essence telling them, "Hey, we know you're out there and we're watching you."

Would be interesting to see all the comments posted on the date in question.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:29 | 127247 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Another reason to use Tor to browse the Internet. Another reason for webmasters to make sure logs are only kept for a few days (at most).

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:08 | 127300 mitack
mitack's picture

Are you talking from experience ?

I tried it years ago and it sucked. Badly.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:32 | 127250 max2205
max2205's picture

WEB Mccarthyism...  I pleed the 5th

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:45 | 127259 M. Barr
M. Barr's picture

Does anyone think it's odd that the Wayback Machine stopped archiving Indymedia on April 30, 2008?*/

Maybe someone who understands this better could interpret if this is an exclusion or not:

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:55 | 127281 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

That's a blanket disallow in the robots.txt file.

But I've found IA to be unreliable sometimes.  It doesn't always have an archive of every site.  YMMV.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:59 | 127290 M. Barr
M. Barr's picture

"Blanket disallow" -- forgive my ignorance, but wouldn't that prevent Google from archiving (caching) the page?  Google has a cached version from yesterday.

Thu, 11/12/2009 - 00:59 | 128022 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I parsed it wrong.  The only prohibition is for the IBM webcrawler.

IA is simply not comprehensive, unfortunately.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:49 | 127266 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Obviously we need some sort of pre-arranged signal by which TD can tip us off to such shenannigans...

How about a long pro-GS rant, that ought to do it.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:38 | 127549 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


That ought to do it, alright.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:41 | 127554 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Good one! I'd be checking and re-packing my Bug Out Bags that afternoon!

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:53 | 127273 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

By the way, media barron Rupert Murdoch is now taking on Google and the BBC. Read the Globe and Mail's article, Murdoch bets on survival without Google. Notice how Mr. Murdoch wants to control access to the media? Control what they read and you control how they think. I personally think Mr. Murdoch will lose big on this dumb move. He is going to alienate a huge chunk of potential readers who are already part of the Google generation. Whether he likes it or not, he's no match for Google.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:58 | 127283 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I was about to post a bunch of "they can't do that" authority then I saw they withdrew it. I have had my phone tapped by the Feds and received subpoenas before but I'm a criminal law attorney not a news site.

As bugs said, this is not the first time however, this is still pretty disturbing, especially the gag order. The First Am. implications are pretty big too especially when you are talking about the entire site traffic to a news site. As other folks have said, and if it is not already painfully clear, the only "change" we have elected is someone who pretends to be the exact opposite of what he actually is. At least Dick Cheney said "fuck you" and "fuck the Bill of Rights" openly. Nor do I buy that this was an isolated mistake by some ignorant Assistant US Atty. Maybe the gag order "mistake" was deliberate reverse psychology as an answer to the forseen allegation that the subpoena was meant to have a chilling effect on all sorts of anti-establishment sites and their readers.     

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:15 | 127308 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

anyone who attributes this to bureaucratic incompetence
is a buffoon.....

anyone who has worked in large organizations knows
that all significant decisions are vetted, analyzed
ad nauseum, socialized, and reviewed endlessly....
especially ones with the potential to be as explosive
as this one...

this was indeed approved at the highest levels
of the gestapo....anyone who thinks otherwise
is showing the sophistication of a fry order cook
at mcdonald's...

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 14:57 | 127284 M. Barr
M. Barr's picture

This may be what (who?) they're looking for:

To the terrorists at BLA [Bernardin- Lockmueller and Associates]:
We know you've been targeted in the past, but since construction
has recently begun- expect more chaos and aggression directed at
your company and the workers that make what you do possible. Next
time maybe we'll pay your homes a visit,because we know where you
live and we know what you do. As I69 continues its developement,
so does our anger and dedication to standing in your way. Our
numbers are constantly growing. We will not let you build your


Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:24 | 127523 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

this looks like a classic government sponsored agent provocateur operation.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:05 | 127287 SloSquez
SloSquez's picture

I would say M. Barr has it.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:06 | 127296 digalert
digalert's picture

"There is a reason Zero Hedge maintains and operates its infrastructure entirely overseas."


But I thought ZH was the investigative branch of the SEC.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 15:44 | 127363 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

See, I always think it's funny when the Justice department has to subpeona IP traffic info from a website because the NSA and the CIA already have all this info neatly stored away in terrabyte lithium niobate holographic storage arrays somewhere but , obviously, they don't share with the legitimate justice system of the US, which is kind of laughable.

HELLO NSA btw how YOU doin! LOLZ

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:00 | 127390 Lothar the Rott...
Lothar the Rottweiler's picture

People, go read the latest from the Columbia Journalism Review.  They are ASKING for federal assistance in keeping "the news business" alive.

You know how this ends if that happens.

What a sorry bunch of puking fucking asstards they are, the MSM.

Go long ZH and real (new) media sites, while you can.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:05 | 127401 Lothar the Rott...
Lothar the Rottweiler's picture

Here's the link:

Sorry I forgot that.  Source material and all that you ZHers require. :)

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:11 | 127493 SloSquez
SloSquez's picture

That's messed up...TBTF?

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 16:29 | 127444 nicholsong
nicholsong's picture

here is an EFF interview with the Indymedia sysadmin

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:13 | 127498 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I'll give them my ip address, nothing to hide here. It's ;)

Thu, 11/12/2009 - 09:10 | 128301 mikeyv1970
mikeyv1970's picture are not supposed to give your HOME IP!  :)


Wed, 11/11/2009 - 17:45 | 127567 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Hahaha. If the government wants Zero Hedge data, you'll give it to them. For unless you too are overseas, they'll exert as much pressure as necessary to get what they want. I don't imagine you'd be willing to sit in a jail cell for very long without handing it over.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 21:06 | 127828 Marla Singer
Marla Singer's picture

You are exactly correct. Which is why, absent our physical presence and the cooperation of the foreign ISP, most data isn't even available to us. No one on senior staff has the power to make a phone call from Detention Center #5 and produce data on traffic. That just does not exist. Senior ZH staff rotting in a jail cell would be unfortunate, but would not help anyone looking for data.

Moreover, we don't actually keep a lot of logs. What logs we do keep are aggregated up into things like traffic stats and we simply do not have the space or the processing power / disk bandwidth to do real time logging of web traffic AND keep archives going back more than a couple days.

With respect to the law of contempt, the moment it becomes punitive instead of coercive (i.e. once it is clear that further incarceration is not going to produce compliance) it becomes illegal.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 18:57 | 127674 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

“There, I guess King George will be able to read that. [Remark on signing American Declaration of Independence]

Oh let me add. Fuck George Bush in his nasal cavity. With a fucking shoe.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 19:28 | 127714 Anonymous
Wed, 11/11/2009 - 20:58 | 127815 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Yup thats how I tracked some banking stuff all over the world. Then I discovered the magic island of caymans full of information technology lawyers and fraud.

Wed, 11/11/2009 - 20:34 | 127790 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Thanks for finding it. The late George Carlin on the American Dream:

A classic. God I miss him.

Thu, 11/12/2009 - 10:33 | 128390 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

WATCH this Video (40 minutes). Entilted: "The End of America." It was taped 2 years ago in late 2007.

It discusses a historical BLUEPRINT of 10 principals on how Governments quietly CHANGE a mature democratic society (like America) over and into, a Socialistic society. This is occurring today in America. Notice in the video, and on point with the above posting, one of the 10 points centers around issuing subpeonas to the press in order to limit, and threaten "freedom of speech." America has already started transferring our society toward Socialism.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!