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More Details On Revenue Side Of "Gang Of Six" Plan Emerge
Bloomberg has just released some additinal details from the proposed plan based on a document it has received:
- GANG OF SIX SETS TOP PERSONAL TAX RATE BETWEEN 23% AND 29%
- PLAN LOWERS CORPORATE TAX RATE TO MAXIMUM OF 29% MINIMUM OF 20%
- SENATORS' PLAN URGES 'REFORM' OF MORTGAGE, CHARITY TAX BREAKS
We will bring you more if we get the full document.
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I thought mortgage payments were charitable after 2008? <TBTF Snark>
<snark>
Only if you use the home to house a stray, recused pet, That is currently being custodianed over by an employee of a non-profit animal shelter.
Take away the Mortgage Interest deduction? I will believe it when I see it. Too many people (in the Oligarchy, us peasants don't matter a jot) have bet it all on Interest staying deductible forever!
Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "Selling Gold You Don't Have":
http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org
"It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
"It would be wise to understand the repercussions of this debt not being paid back. Those most affected will obviously be those who lent the most money to Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. It turns out that the governments of Europe have been lending each other the money (that’s right, lending money they don’t have, to their also-broke neighbors, it would land a normal person in jail)! And not only that, financial institutions across Europe have loaded up on the stuff (government debt).
So that means stay away from government debt and don’t touch bank stocks until after the dust has settled. Last but not least, currency exchange rates will be affected. So if you have large savings denominated in either US dollars or Euros it would be wise to reconsider that position. It is tough to predict how exchange rates will change, because both the Euro and the US dollar will both be greatly devalued 2-3 years from now, but the timing, order and magnitude of the moves that will get them there are not knowable at this point in time.
Anecdotally, the CRI was started at the start of 2011. At that time the price of gold was $1364/ounce, and today, even after a sharp decline in the last 24 hours, gold is at $1591. Thats a 16% increase! Or a 16% devaluation in the value/purchasing power of the US dollar, if you look at it that way (as we at the CRI do)."
Wonder how the carry trade will affect other currencies when the Euro and Dollar tank.
Ha! It's funny cause it's true!
Hey, Obama told Congress to "fix" the debt and deficit woes.
It should have been done by now.
Is it that difficult (to fix an unfixable problem)?
Obama/Jim Grant 2012
/sarc
The only question that matters: what does Moody's et. al. think of this plan?
they'll think whatever they are directed to think of it e.g. AAA∞
07-20 12:47: Fitch analyst says will decide on US ratings outlook after Washington reaches a debt agreement [Or Not]
Surely they find the Greecian austerity element of "selling unused federal property" confidence-inspiring:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-complete-generic-fluff-gang-...
Look at all those damn national forests going unused! Hell, even Lady Liberty just stands there like a statue--private enterprise, otoh, will make that bitch dance!
And, looking ahead, need I say just how much more thirst quenching private water will be? Portions may be a lot smaller, but I'm sure the competitive increase in quality will more than compensate.
Private hedonics promise a brave new world!
Don't believe the privatization of ALL our water is coming? Don't be so...naive. If the oil industry can be 100% privatized, then so can water.
Thank God I have well water. Drill one while (if) you still can, and make sure you get a Simple Pump as a back-up.
Sad but true.
++ excellent advice. Lack of water will move you faster and easier than overt force. Because you "wanted" to move and such.
Sand point a.k.a drive point wells with a pitcher style pump might be a solution for many... available off the shelves at local Menards here in flyover country.
One great advantage of living in Great Lakes territory: A lot of fresh water.
I wonder how many "investment syndicates" are lined up to bid on those?
I can hear Michigan's Gov Snyder pitching it already, like Mr. Drisedale (Jed Clampit's banker) on acid. Michigan is to fresh water what the Middle East is to oil.
http://berkeleywaterfilter.com/
http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-products/products/katadynshopconnect/katadyn-water-filters/
Remember that hauling water really sucks. It is VERY heavy.
...............................................................
Isn't Milwaukee, "in Great Lakes territory?"
Why is it that my darkest fantasies can never keep up with "free enterprise?"
Don't forget the flouride filter, a worthwhile investment for your family.
Hey Tyler... you posted the entire thing yesterday. The tax numbers are in that original document.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-complete-generic-fluff-gang-six-plan-reduce-our-nations-deficit
Not enough hits on that article apparently. Pull out the juicy parts and post them again. That'll fix it!
Once again, lets all hold hands and sing kumbaya and bend over. F this shit. hang Congress
They aren't lowering rates to get less revenues.
At this point, I'll take it.
We're screwed regardless. So long as they talk about 'reducing the deficit' instead of eliminating it, we're just going further down the hole.
Seeing as we're pretty f'ed, the least they can do for me is reduce my tax rate in the mean time.
With this plan they might reduce your rate but you will pay more in tax. Count on it.
Our problems are fixed by a tax code tweak? This is all just retarded.
If you can't reduce the debt by going on a spending diet, you have to starve the beast to get the same outcome. It works until it doesn't. The Keynesians would have us keep on spending until the "recovery" is complete, regardless of the debt accrued. Not so much on the conservative/libertarian side. I am sympathetic to both sides so that just proves that neither approach will work.
Maybe they'll get rid of the mortgage interest deduction on 1st homes too and really fuck the suckers who are still paying their mortgages.
The first time homeowner (young and probably unable to afford) that bought a home a year or 2 ago with that "tax credit" from the government and has since lost many multiples of that in equity is now going to get the double whammy of their interest deduction taken away. They must want to kill someone right about now.
The majority of these homes will be back in foreclosure very shortly. The government should be proud of themselves for financially raping these people.
Of course they should.
no shit.
That would be a huge tax increase on the GOP base? I'm going to have to call booshit on that one. They couldn't be that craven could they?
Just skip to the ending --zero taxes for all.
Bingo. Implement sales taxes so that when our chinese overlords start buying american physical assets, (with thier FRNs) the government can re-coup its investment.
Xeno if they do that, I'll default and lawyer-up and probably end up with a free townhouse.
is it ironic that they named themselves after a communist group?
My thoughts exactly. Always a trip inside the mind to examine what they call themselves.
The word "gang" is very telling because it implies all kinds of shit and none of it good.
Unless it's Our Gang
You mean Our Crooks.
OK folks. Which one is Timmy and Bernanke and.....????
<too easy>
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows
Little Obama Rascals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGteQORlL4Q
well i see pelosi, summers, obama, bernanke , hillary and geithner are having a grand time
You missed the dog. Common oversight.
No one suspects the one that shits on the floor and licks his.......
I was secretly in love with Darla.
It always comes down to the Mary Ann or Ginger decision.
Whatever happened to Bo the dog?
Nah, the only easy one was Obama. I suspect that the one, front and centre with the black eye is Blankfein. The others, I'm not sure.
LMAO
.
and not for the first time. i think they like the frisson of the forbidden. kind of like their sex lives. well, and there's the bribery.
That was the Gang of Four that tried to take over The Peoples Republic of China after Mao died, which included Mao's wife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Four
Cold War convergence theory 101, anyone ?
It's 6 now because of inflation
lol
First 2 bulletpoints, are those increases or decreases?
believe they would be decreases. now both top rates are 35%.
It's not the top rates that matter, but the loopholes which allow them to avoid them. Loopholes that allow many top earners to avoid even the minimum rates. The only suckers that pay at the maximum rates are us, my friend.
It's not the tax rate, it's what's taxable that counts.
Not enough information to answer that question, but I guess that's the point.
Increase/decrease for who...? The hedge fund man paying CGT on his earnings? Or the salary slave paying 35% on it all?
I did see somewhere they want to can the AMT though... This all sounds wonderful, less tax for me. None of these suckers are going to 'fix' it, we're going to be further into debt regardless, so I'll back anyone that wants to steal less out of my pocket.
Me... my... I...
Isn't that the problem?
We have a first person personal pronoun problem, that's all.
Then the suckers quit paying too....winning!
They need to watch out not to make it too logical and sensible, the more sensible a plan is the less of a chance it'll get implemented(voted on)
Well as long as the top rate doesn't go up and nobody is expected to actually pay.....cause that would be just silly. By all means lets pull those freebies from the struggling middle class cause until they rely on the govt for food they're just doing too well I guess.
I think the big shocker here will be the elimination of the "steps".
Currently, you pay 10% of the first $8,500 and then 15% to $34,500, ect. but I sense this is going to change and now those in the top bracket, for example, will start at a base of 23% and top out at 29%!
I'm talking out my ass here, but I do not believe that will pass constitutional muster... I believe the system is tiered because individuals may not be taxed differently on the same income... obviously tax rates can change for certain types of income... but I believe the tiers are in place for all...
This looks to be a straight reduction to the top tax brackets... which is fucking hilarious (in a really sick sort of way... albeit wishing "stronger chains" to quote another poster on our fellow citizens). I suspect that the middle brackets will increase... if not now, then in the near future...
"constitutional muster"...?
Since when has this administration done anything that passes "constitutional muster"?
+100
+1000 (atty)
Since when do income taxes themselves pass "constitutional muster"? The so-called 16th Amendment was never ratified. No matter, they've got the guns, and you're going to pay.
Speculation is great, it looks that way to me too and as I wonder why this is, my first thought is that, and forgive my way of explaining this, 80% of our economy is consumption, this level must not only maintain, but it must expand. Who consumes? A big reason people attempt to succeed is to satisfy their desire to consume. A car is not enough, it must be something everyone else will envy and something you will do almost anything to possess. Not everyone is built this way. Everyone wants a Nickleback lifestyle "hilltop house driving 15 cars", but are soon exhausted or revolted by the chase and stop at a Bachelor's not a PHD, at being a mid-level drug dealer not a kingpin.
Giving those with the greatest desire the most ammunition is the best way to win a war, be it economic or territorial. It's not personal, it's business. It's not exlcusionary, it's incentive.
"Constitution? I don't have no Constitution! We don't need no steenkin' Constitution!"
Sooo we will solve the debt problem by raising the limit and lowering revenues....sure, sure. Speaking of which, how much in taxes did Apple pay last year?
$2.8 billion (u.s.)? http://www.dailyfinance.com/financials/apple-inc/aapl/nas/income-stateme...
and that $2.8b came from the overpricing of their iCrap they sell to iSheeple
Only FY2012 spending cuts matter. Everything else is just PR.
That includes spending "cuts" past FY2012.
Only the FY2012 numbers matter.
It appears that Bruce nailed it.
A Trillion of Revune is on the Plate:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/trillion-revenue-plate
Paging the the Banking & Charity lobbies, we need you to flood DC with more $$$$$
Obama can't get enough of sodomizing his supporters. Or of being sodomized by the banksters. but he sure has a nice smile ; )
I'm not one of his supporters, but he has Sodom and Gomorrah'd me
TERRY INGRID HILLSON
BAC about to roll over - taking a huge short position right here...
I don't expect to see any reform of tax rates for capital gains--Mr. Market has replaced the "real" economy.
Must.keep.Him.happy!
It would significantly gut a huge number of investments... but, at the same time, I'm not sure how we can more morally attempt to bridge the wealth gap...
Seems to me we either get real together or crash together. Everybody seems to be imagining that they have the winning angle, whether stocks or gold, but don't seem to recognize the extremity of the "externalities" they'll be subjected to in an eventual armageddon scenario.
I think we should start providing incentives for "real" economic activity. Hell, maybe we should even figure out a way to give domestic activities a fighting chance against foreign producers.
I don't see how objecting to that idea can be defended as more than a "eat shit and die" program for the common man.
This plan is another American joke. Housing in the toilet, no motivation to buy and these jackoffs considering getting rid of mortgae deduction. Folks, this is a tax and spend plan and nothing more.
"Folks, this is a tax and spend plan and nothing more."
this phrase, "tax and spend" is designed to obfuscate. WTF else are you supposed to do with taxes, or debt for that matter? Even the sequence is inverted. Faux News talking heads should get beat with a fish every time they say it.
The mortgage interest deduction is perfectly safe. It is bought, paid for and serviced during each election cycle by the TBTF banksters. States might have a go at it but not the fed gov.
If the government actually needed revenue to spend money, we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. Taxing and spending are the two tools of the central planners. They are not coupled.
any correlation to the NYSE finally turning, just about now, or coincidence? I thought that bitch was going to the freakin' moon. NYSE & banks shot out of a cannon, but not Dow or Russell.... wtf?
Banks gapped up this am...been strong since open.
I junked you because I simply don't care. So, there.
This plan is another American joke. Housing in the toilet, no motivation to buy and these jackoffs considering getting rid of mortgae deduction. Folks, this is a tax and spend plan and nothing more.
More reasons not to own a home... We already have issues with pricing, now we have uncertainty in total cost of ownership.
As long as property tax is leveled , no one will ever own shit...
An asinine plan that uses chained-CPI to magically "find" $500 billion in savings, then punts the rest of the called for cuts to "bipartisan" committees to agree upon over the next six months. This is just more of the same Beltway politics which makes lots of noise and garners headlines but doesn't solve any problems. It's this kind of crap which got this country in its current predicament.
more parlor games in the palace. the US is in de facto default. the debt can never be paid. dick durbin and his "gang of shits" are corporate and financial shills providing soap opera for the groundlings. disgusting.
If they lower corporate tax rate that means GE will be paying negative 12% rate as, opposed to negative 2%, or positive 8% (-2 -[-10])=8?. My head is spinning with this math thingy......
Corporations don't really pay tax anyway, especially the CEOs. Only the employees pay taxes. Besides, making the tax code simple with no loop holes would put far too many financial fucknuts out of a job and we all know that these people are "above" picking fruit and farming, although God knows we could use the laborers in my neck of the woods.
Go ahead, end tax deductions associated with mortgages in the upcoming $100+ oil landscape and see how many people keep paying their mortgage. Word on the street is everyone is looking forward to spending all their income on all things physical. The tighter the state squeezes the middle class, the more people stop participating. Bring it, happy days will soon be here again.
mopeds and army surplus tents bitches
Horses, yurts, and both sexes of dogs*
*security, sustinance, clothing, transportation
Obama likes gangs.
I give up. Is that Beavis or Butthead that deserves attribution for that little gem.
No small wonder Obama ran out like it was Christmas morning.
Spending cuts raised?
Revenue Raised?
This shit is DOA. The only thing that will be raised is the debt ceiling.
+$14.518 T
TPTB still clinging to the strategy of "growing" out of our debt problem.
Bet they shithammer charitable deducts to drive the last holdouts to full and complete need and compliance with all things federal.
Short Home Builders and Goodwill.
We already know that ANY tax break that is ended will be one the middle class uses - they'll BS us and say Lower the top rate BUT get rid of the breaks - but of course the breaks for the predators will be extended. Damn the USA hung these people from the nearest lightposts after WW2 - who's going to fill that position this time as the USA has taken the place of Italy.
Spot on. In fact the tax structure needs to return to the post WWII structure and fast.
the MSM has totally and completely buried the vote in the House from last night that saw a sizeable majority vote (234-190 e.g. bigger margin than obamacare) for the Cut Cap and Balance act that O said he would veto.
the media that has reported it quaintly refers to this as symbolic
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=20110719...
(END) Dow Jones Newswires07-19-112038ET
Some of those votes were allowed to enable Ds from vulnerable districts to say that they voted with the Tea Party in the next elections.
that is certainly how the MSM has spun it
Right, you can pretty much completely ignore how people vote on something that isn't expected to go anywhere. They vote however they think will enable them to best talk themselves up, knowing full well the vote is meaningless.
I don't like these peas.
try them as soup.....really not bad
It's well and good that the people around here are being really represented by their government.
Nothing but middle class tax increases.
Elimination of Mortgage Interest deduction is a non-starter.
Tyler says
We will bring you more if we get the full document.
(the full document will be available only if it is voted into law at which time those who signed it will also have an opportunity to read its contents)
+1
lol +1 wang.
Chance of passage ? Zero.
more like the "gang(rape) of six".
Both dems and repubs are wringing their hands in anticipation of (finally) putting the fix in on entitlements. Bush wanted the social security trust fund privatized so that the funds could be invested into the market. That would have been perfect mechanism for another transfer of mega-wealth to the upper echelons considering the 2008 crash. Just tells you how well in advance these guys know what is coming or what their planbook says is coming.
Of course all public trust funds have been and will be "confiscated" for national security interests. I think all current Congressional members that are alive should be held accountable for treason, along with all living presidents. Someone tell me they didn't know what they were doing.
You said it, dogismyth! To believe that our 'reps' didn't know exactly what they were doing, one would have to believe that the most stupid and incompetent people regularly rise to the highest levels of government and finance, while the best and brightest reside in section 8 housing and trailer parks, collecting welfare checks.
It seems that we have a system where the most corrupt and competent rise to the highest levels of government and finance, while the best and brightest are living in Obamavilles or getting the hell out of Obamaland, if they have the means.
Well, to be fair, I'm not entirely sure the current President knows what he's doing.....
Well, this plan will get U6 at 20%, depress home prices even more and move GDP into 0 category. I do agree we need to stop this insanity.
But I disagree on owning 1 home. We all need a cave. And while home ownership may prove harder moving forward if you own just one piece of real estate for you, your significant other and a child or two, for long term and you are not absurdly under water, then a home makes sense.
I say we urge it along. The faster the crash the sooner we can get to doing things another way. The only survivors will be the elites/bankers and they can start all over again. Perhaps the U. S. could learn to make actual stuff again -- like we used to.
On the cave, that's no solution since the mineral rights will never be yours.
Nothing is so well calculated to produce a death-like torpor in the country as an extended system of taxation and a great national debt.
WILLIAM COBBETT, letter, Feb. 10, 1804
"Dear U.S. Middle Class,
Please bend over, it appears we missed something in your 2008 colonoscopy.
Sincerely,
Congress"
Let's play a little game called just the tip.
pods
What this shows is that they have nothing...no hard rules...no hard changes..just ideas...an outline..where have we seen that before...Dood-Fuck...and the Healthcare reform.....they will make it up as they go....but first they need to buy some cigars..cuban of course...and more mirrors....what a joke
1. [PDF]
U.S. Military Forces and Police Assistance in Stability Operations ...
www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1013.pdf
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by DE Keller - 2010 - Related articles
the Army and Navy Attaché with the U.S. Embassy in La Paz, Bolivia. There he ...
1. U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command ...
www.usar.army.mil/arweb/organization/.../USARC/OPS/.../History - CachedSimilar
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Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations have been a part of U.S. military ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
I Googled and Googled! Who has the Constitutional amendment that allows the United States Military to Operate Freely on America Soil?
As well the information on the Battalion that is already training here in the United States! For Operations in the United States!
Thanks in Advance for the HELP!
Police State USA. They will shoot the citizens.
Not if the citizens are armed and shoot first.
You think your peashooter is going to work on a tank? lolololololol
Some of us live in places where tanks just can't go.
Just perusing the wiki on posse comitatus, and under "exclusions and limitations," it would seem that they (the gov't goons) have several ways to get around this.
Scary stuff that.
So the revenue "compromise" is to lower tax rates?
there's two parts to the gangster plan
increase the debt ceiling
study and explore ways to increase revenue and reduce spending with the help of K street
http://www.gafunds.com/yuan/?utm_source=Bloomberg&utm_medium=Display&utm...
When a default in Greece was imminent. Thousands took to the streets.
Where are the people marching on the mall in Washington?
even if they were there you would never know about it
Americans are either too uninformed about the subject to understand the importance of it or too fearful of the ramifications of protesting.
The majority of this country seems to be cowering in a corner asking the government "please just leave me alone and I promise I won't complain". You can grope me at the airport, randomly check my blood on the roadways, take away all my rights...I don't care...just please, don't take away my cable TV.
It's a sad sad sad state of affairs really.
Blythe to answer that just look at Googles Top Ten Searches for today! Probably 100 people here on ZH have any bit of open eyes to what the hell is really going on at all. 'Americans' BAH piss on em they deserve ALL thats about to befall them, and 100X over!!
yeah, it is pretty sad.
Which just means it will be a much ruder awakening once the SHTF
How about tax on dividends?
they better grandfather those mortgage deductions , unless they want no one to pay their mortgages
Here's some news for the "Shit hitting the Fan" file:
US drone shot down over Iran nuke site
Lawmaker claims unmanned spy plane was gathering information about the plant
A U.S. drone was shot down while flying over a nuclear facility in Iran, according to reports in the Iranian media.
FULL STORY HERE:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43819984/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/
I think I see a special 35% tax on physical gold and physical silver possession in there. /sarc
Likelihood of a US rating downgrade just spiked on the 'details' of this plan (based on 0% chance of passage.)
The real question is when will the productive class in Amerika go John Galt and tell the elite political class to go to hell?
Going Galt is telling them to go to hell. It's just that they can't hear (or see) us.
You know it really pisses me off how ALL this crap is always dealt with by some 'gang' of 4 or 6, total bullshit worse than communism! Why dont we just cut thru ALL the crap and just say Obama is the dictator and just do whatever he says! 99% there anyway!
You have legislative overload. Take a little nap, have a nice sandwich and a glass of milk.
You'll feel much better.