• Sprott Money
    05/06/2016 - 06:03
    The US, in its own decline, is showing this same self-destructive tendency. The worse things get, the greater the inclination of the citizenry to say, “Carry on, everything’s fine.”

More Illegality From The Big Banks: This Time Short Sale Fraud

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Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:43 | 195340 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

This could be it.  Fraud by the bank.  Tax fraud by

the second lien holder.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:16 | 195378 rangerider
rangerider's picture

Kayte Gentry is absolutely correct in my experience .....

the second lienholder of abt $100k may block a short sale many months .....

while holding out for a few k$ more, where they would get nothing in a F/C .....

and some second L/H demand full payment before signing off ....




Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:00 | 195808 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

IRS ?????

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 13:43 | 195923 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Bankruptcy Court. This is yet another reason why Bankruptcy Courts should permit cram downs of mortgages on owner occupied homes similar to all other real estate assets.

Sun, 01/17/2010 - 23:02 | 196948 Fat Bob
Fat Bob's picture

Cram downs also breach legalities. Why don't we all just get together and rob the banks? Who's in? I'm tired of this sh!t mess already, we had a big chance to have a genuine cleanse of the system, and now all we are left with is garbage. Plain and simple.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 14:46 | 195962 seventree
seventree's picture

IRS? Very possibly. It would be instructive to know how these money orders were reported as income.

If they were reported accurately that would be admission of an illegal act. Reported falsely or not at all is tax fraud. And since Switzerland's surrender, and with other havens under attack, it is getting harder to simply hide significant amounts of cash.

This is how Al Capone and many since have been brought down. It isn't necessary to trace the source of unreported cash, or to prove that a crime was commited, only that it was not reported -- and again if it was not obtained legally there is no way to do that.

This is a situation where the IRS's legendary appetite for revenue could be an advantage. Once aroused they are hard to stop.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:49 | 195349 ReallySparky
ReallySparky's picture

That is just jacked up.  This piece will be just like what happened with the Mortgage Broker whistle blowing, the FBI and HUD will take months or years to prosocute this deal.  The fastest thing the Gov could do would be to do simple public service announcements on TeeVee, perhaps the reporter on this story could get her network to do it gratious, that would surely make them look good in the eyes of the common man.  This crap is probably sprung on the realtors and buyers right before the closing, everybody packed up, realtor already spent the commission, title company work completed, and they have everybody by the ya-ya's.  Public service announcements best way to educate Joe Sixpack.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:07 | 195368 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I expect the authorities to go after the person who made the recording for violating wiretap laws before they go after the banks.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:43 | 195514 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Cynical and probably accurate.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:35 | 195797 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Bank Run Bitches!!!

Bank Run Bitches!!!

Bank Run Bitches!!!

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 17:55 | 195356 Harbourcity
Harbourcity's picture

Hell, the US government lies, cheats and steals - why not the populace??!?


Sat, 01/16/2010 - 11:11 | 195837 berated
berated's picture

I think this is one of many critical points emerging from this whole mess (as if there weren't enough already). How much more rampant will individual fraud become (we've kinda always assumed it was there from the finanicial institutions) as increasingly more folks assume everyone else is trying to lie, cheat and steal? People will begin to rationalize their own fraud because "they just *know* everyone else does it." In fact, we should expect to see previously honest people commit fraud preemptively before they lose to the other guy--because that's becoming the new norm.



Sun, 01/17/2010 - 23:50 | 196976 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

There is a simple fact in play now: the last honest man will be prey to everyone else, and everyone knows it.  When taken in combination with that ever-popular "It is insanity to continue to do the same thing while expecting different results", it requires no imagination at all to see what's happening and what's next.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:00 | 195359 john_connor
john_connor's picture

Just send the evidence to Darrell Issa and Alan Grayson.  Something will get done.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 09:37 | 195799 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Grayson says nice things... and have hope, yet see little change. When he forces a full Fed Audit, or at least an audit of the gold, THEN i shall be a believer. Until then, all talk and no HARD ACTION due to Grayson.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:03 | 195363 Art Vandelay
Art Vandelay's picture

Re: the penultimate paragraph - that's not the "problem" of vigilante justice, it's the "beauty" of vigilante justice. The "problem" of vigilante justice is that it's just about all we have left.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:06 | 195366 pros
pros's picture


The banks and the U.S. government they control view private citizens as dupes to be manipulated and fleeced...I regret to say that it goes all the way to Obama (I voted for him, btw).



Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:07 | 195369 Rainman
Rainman's picture

No wonder short sales are a time consuming nightmare. The seconds want a piece out of the firsts and there's under the table footsie going on to boot.

It will take forever to clean up this friggin' mess.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:08 | 195372 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The banking corporations are not responsible nor legally liable, they will say. It's just some bad eggs working for them. This defense would certainly win on appeal if needs be, to the Supreme Court if necessary, in 6 years. Now the authorities might go after the bad eggs who would claim they were acting on behalf of the corporations wishes and should not be held liable. An argument that would certainly win on appeal if necessary if the appellants were important executives not some gal working in a branch in Des Moines, to the Supreme Court if needed, in 6 years or so.

Everyone has a choice to make in life. Work for and with corporations or be just a citizen and a chump. And stop bitching about it if you made the wrong choice. There are not going to be any pitchfork mobs at JPM or GS. The pitchfork mobs are already working for the corporations as August showed.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 17:39 | 196094 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

Sure, they could fall back on the typical "rogue trader" story, and blame it on a few people, but they would still have to curtail the activity, one way or another.  If it continued despite spending a bundle fighting the guilty verdicts up to the Supreme Court, they would be seen as dirty as ever, and new charges would be brought against them as more and more instances were uncovered later.  Either way, this "income" stream will be curtailed or choked off.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:12 | 195375 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

"Then they began to feed on each other"  

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:23 | 195494 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Good. I hope they kill each other and die off.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:40 | 195401 deadhead
deadhead's picture

Okay, Secretary of HUD, Shaun Donovan, we are calling you out on this one...let's get cracking on this along with  IG Kenneth Donohue and I would suggest Mr. Holder, our Attorney General, get very, very closely involved with this one.

Folks, I've seen these guys bust a small time mortgage banker for giving away athletic event tickets (yes, that is a violation of RESPA) and they never hesitated to be all over the title insurance companies.  Let's see if these cats got the stones to go after the big boys.

By the way, let's not pin it on some low level pinhead, somebody up the food chain has to be able to authorize the acceptance of money to make these kind of transactions happen.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:51 | 195414 ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Donovan is too busy adding up the losses on the FHA portfolio, see pages 11-13, good stuff.


Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:56 | 195419 deadhead
deadhead's picture

didn't Stevens say recently that FHA is okey dokey and no taxpayer bailout will be needed?

The only question I have on FHA is if the Obama admin can stave it off until after the mid terms...I'm sure they will be able to accomplish that.

Thanks Ghost.


Sat, 01/16/2010 - 17:45 | 196099 dhengineer
dhengineer's picture

The best way is to pin it on some low-level plebe, and then lean on him (or her) to roll the next level up.  Threaten the little guys, offer significant plea bargains, and watch the snitching accelerate.  In any of these banking organizations, there may be 50 guys in the executive suite, but thousands down on the street level.  Threaten some low-level manager with 10 years in Attica, and you'd be surprized at the amount of information that will be forthcoming.  If and when that happens, the executive bathrooms will be awash with gourmet-level puke as the big boys realize that the grim reaper is getting closer and closer, and they can feel the breeze from the scythe...

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:53 | 195415 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

what are the size of these off-the-record payments, anyway?

and what exactly is the purpose of hiding them from the primary lender? is the second lien holder hoping to collect two separate partial payments?

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 21:12 | 195538 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Quite often if the primary is settling for less than what they are owed, it's not ok with them that the 2nd gets paid what they're owed, or anything near it, or sometimes anything at all.

That's why they're being hidden from the primary. If the primary lender finds out about these side deals, they'll have a cow and just kill the whole deal.

I would like to know also about what kind of payments are being demanded.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 18:54 | 195416 deadhead
deadhead's picture

I have 2 items to mention to ZHers:

1. Diana Olick is probably the only journalist at CNBC who consistently writes objectively and is not part of the cheerleading gang (Rick Santelli being the other notable person).  She is an Emmy award winning journalist. 

2. I think it is very important that we give a huge "thank you" to Kayte Gentry, of Keller Williams Integrity First Realty for having the courage and fortitude to come out publicly and say this.  I suspect Kayte will catch alot of shit from some corners and Kayte should be invited to contact ZH at any time to report on any crap that she gets because at least ZH has the stones to call out those that might give Kayte a hard time. 

Thanks for bringing this out on ZH Tyler.


Sat, 01/16/2010 - 21:53 | 196230 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"Deadhead" - thank you for the kind words - it was a difficult decision to make since I run a fairly large short sale business in AZ and obviously worry about retribution from the lenders. We have the evidence necessary should anyone question our disclosure.

To address an earlier question, we've seen these requests as low as $500.00 and as large as $10,000.

I'll be sure to let you know if the "storm" comes!

Kayte Gentry
Gentry & Associate
Keller Williams Integrity First

Sun, 01/17/2010 - 10:27 | 196473 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Be sure to tell Ron and crew to keep your eyes peeled for suspicious visitors that might be considering retaliation.

Thanks for stepping forward.

Sun, 01/17/2010 - 14:04 | 196647 deadhead
deadhead's picture

I'm delighted that you responded Kayte and commend you again for your courage.  I know that it is not an easy thing to speak out but you have done the right thing.

I urge you to share whatever you have with the authorities, even sending the info directly to Shaun Donovan at HUD or Atty General Holder.  Make sure you contact your congress person as a means of protecting yourself and being on the record.

If you need support, I would strongly encourage you to contact Tyler Durden or Marla Singer at Zero Hedge (tips at zerohedge dot com) as this blog is very widely read and the only way to keep the bad guys at bay is to expose them. 

I hope any ZHers in Arizona would consider sending their business to Kayte as her courage and fortitude deserve our support. 

Please keep us informed of your progress and be strong knowing that you have done the correct thing.  The truth ultimately wins out.

Sun, 01/17/2010 - 15:19 | 196698 Amish FinEng
Amish FinEng's picture

Reading the various posting here I see you have a deep admiration for twisted hypocrites.

You must be an ex-banker.

Countrywide or IndyMac exec? Musician based in Santa Monica? Do you have any magical indicator for sale?

How close am I?

Sun, 01/17/2010 - 16:03 | 196723 deadhead
deadhead's picture

I simply don't understand where you are trying to go with this Amish.

I've no admiration for hypocrites.  I prefer the truth.


Mon, 01/18/2010 - 15:47 | 197520 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Yeah, definitely try ZH first. The new posturing for increased "accountability" isn't a good thing. "Sorry lady, State Secret."


Sun, 01/17/2010 - 09:35 | 196440 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Funny how the smart people here overlook how complicit Realtors are in Real Estate bubbles and crashes.

The questionable value-add partners who themselves slither like snakes.

Oh, look at me. I have Integrity. I am different. Laughable.

Where was the voice of our little princess do-good'er when the bubble was inflating. Shouting out objections about crooked property appraisers, and boiler room mortgage processors?

It is the job of a Realtor to inflate real estate values.

This article displays a hypocritical effort. Realtors eat, sleep, and dream about bubbles. How to start them, inflate them, and re-inflate them.

The Queen of Queen Creek. Starting @ 1:30 - 2:00
"Unbelievable". Yea right. You knew what you were doing. You knew it was unsustainable and would eventually hurt people. Yet you continued.

This is an attempt by the snakes to manipulate the mobsters. FAIL.

Keller Williams is as much a part of the problem as ZH is part of the solution.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:19 | 195433 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Banks probably trying to grab a few extra thousand out of the Realtors pockets.  Everyone wants to spend the Realtors Dollars.

Like they work for free.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:21 | 195435 JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

How do they bookkeep these payments? Donation?

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:28 | 195446 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

hookers and blow..  it never gets to the books

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:17 | 195485 deadhead
deadhead's picture

By the way, let's not pin it on some low level pinhead, somebody up the food chain has to be able to authorize the acceptance of money to make these kind of transactions happen.

my answer from above in terms of bank employee involvement.  your question as to how it is booked needs to be answered.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:21 | 195492 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

I would not be surprised if Ben Bernanke himself gave some sort of under-the-table approval for such activities.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:23 | 195440 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

And yes, Realtor rebates are illegal.

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 19:53 | 195456 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Will the moral police now please come out of their holes and tell me that I need to be a good boy and pay all my debts to the big banks? HAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAAA!!!!




Fri, 01/15/2010 - 20:14 | 195481 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Yeah man, I actually went one step further and converted all of my cash into Gold - I just keep barely enough for daily expenses - that's it, plus it saves me from wasting money on worthless things I don't really need. All my spare cash goes into Gold/Silver. I have become an FRN exterminator - whenever I see some, they get converted in Gold - LOL! Can't convert those worthless pieces of shit into real money soon enough. At this point I don't even trust the currency, what to say of the banking system. Let's just say if the bank is in the US, I don't trust it.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 10:03 | 195809 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ok, gold & silver, but where do you stash them?
Or is it only paper gold and silver?

I would not want to store a large amount at home, and don't think u-haul storage is the place for it either :)

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 22:12 | 195589 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

I like that idea, Gordon.  One question, though:

What do I do when they destroy my credit rating?

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 23:15 | 195632 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Make sure you suck out as much credit as possible before you default - much like the US Govt. is doing to the sovereign credit of We the People of the USA. Think of it as getting your money back which the US Govt. FORCIBLY took from you and gave to the bankers.

Or you can choose to bend over.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 20:43 | 196193 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Hmmm   ...  OK.

I will do that when I'm 100% convinced the collapse of the entire nation is right around the corner with 100% certainty.  Anything short of that, and a credit rating of 0 will prevent me from ever buying a house or a car again in the future.

Don't get me wrong  ...  I support your cause, but until I can be certain of both the existence and timing of a complete economic meltdown that will render credit scores irrelevant, a credit rating of 0 would be rather inconvenient.

Sat, 01/16/2010 - 01:50 | 195714 Dburn
Dburn's picture

Make FICO irrelevant. That company has way too much power and lenders are way too dependent on it. FICO's whole business is dependent on people who think having a high credit score is worth paying 30% on credit cards and having a dry savings account for emergencies. The banks are dependent on FICO to keep the finger in the face of debtors by forcing them to ask the same question you asked; what about your credit score?" FICO will lower the "curve" once enough people do it voluntarily or are forcibly deleveraged by life circumstances. That's the only way they survive. Banks competing over 50 people with 800 scores? That won't work. FICO knows it too. Each day FICO gets a little less relevant every time people default. The whole exercise is to make them irrelevant as well as the banks.

Besides, Banks are only lending to people who don't need the money. So who cares what the FICO score is. Right now your sub-prime under 720 from what I heard. Get off the crack of credit. It'll reduce stress and you'll live longer. Credit is not a safety net if there is no income to support it.

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