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Morgan Stanley Goes Short Treasurys.... Again

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Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:09 | 1378022 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Guess the discount window will be closed to MS soon.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:29 | 1378082 bonddude
bonddude's picture

But the "Real Housewives of Wall Street" are still doing good. ;-)

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:19 | 1378232 SparkyvonBellagio
SparkyvonBellagio's picture

Kids fined over illegal lemonade stand at USOpen. Nice way to influence kids and break their spirit early. 

This kind of crap SUCKS! 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/17/us-open-lemonade-fine-neighbors...

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:22 | 1378249 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Ha ha. Can you spell "desperate county in bankruptcy"? Suck it up.

Oh and you better pay your outstanding parking citations too or they'll chopper in a SWAT team on your narrow ass.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:09 | 1378024 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture

7s10s flattener.  AKA watching paint dry.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:13 | 1378026 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

This is a good lesson for our kids: ALWAY BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU!

 

 

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:13 | 1378027 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

The only reason this clown Caron still has a job - and has not defenestrated himself - is because he is playing the game with OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:16 | 1378039 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

OT: think Tyler better get the deer picture ready....

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:23 | 1378074 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

What? You think the Dow will go below 12K? Ha! Well you have not seen these men in action. The 30 minute drill today will be epic. Monumental. Your eyes will bug right out of your head, they will.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:36 | 1378102 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Or, the DOW may finish down -200...who knows? Who says that want the DOW up every day, do you have the Pigmen's short and long positioning ratio?

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:15 | 1378213 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Surely it has less to do now with positions and so much more to do with the entire planet not catching literal fire and burning to ashes by Tuesday. Or something even worse, like senior haircuts.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:43 | 1378527 eureka
eureka's picture

Oh yeah?

20 min.s to closing S&P up .19%....

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:21 | 1378040 Highrev
Highrev's picture

Euro Stoxx 50 futures, heavily financial weighted, still hanging on to +2% on the day.

????

 

SOX taking a beating again. (Full 50% retrace of the move off of last summer's low BTW, and oversold on all time frames from the 5 minute out to the weekly.)

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:41 | 1378537 eureka
eureka's picture

First pump, then dump.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:15 | 1378045 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Completely OT:

Morgan and Stanley as a running gag:

http://madscienceunlimited.com/fiction/uncomfortableWithTheTruth.html

Does anyone have a UTube link to the proceedings from the House Oversight Committee Investigating the Guttman Sacks and Morgan/Stanley Economic Data Catastrophe? Cuz I wanna see Morgan go all mayhem again on that peckerhead from GS.  I was loled.

 

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:17 | 1378046 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

.........Caron does have a better grasp of rates than most other Wall Street penguins.

Looks like Caron has a broken nest egg.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:20 | 1378056 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

America will fall in 1 day. Try to time that right.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:08 | 1378195 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Hey now, timing this market is no more difficult than to catch a falling knife ... with your tongue. While in a straight-jacket and roller skates. As your leg is being chewed off by an angry mob of rabid ferrets even as Ben Bernanke is lecturing you at length concerning his expectations for inflation.

Nothing hard about it at all.

You need to get over your pessimism my friend.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:51 | 1378555 eureka
eureka's picture

The whole world will go Greek -and that's positively positive.

Of that, I am positive.

Let's all be positive.

It's very positive.

I'm an optimist.

US Globa-Fi-Scum collapse IS a blessing for the whole world.

Count Down: 12 months. Enjoy.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:18 | 1378058 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Meanwhile, Morgan Stanley has my mother long treasuries! Her 29-year-old account manager persuaded her to continue to hold them, despite my urging her to liquidate them, telling her they weren't sure they COULD sell them!

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:29 | 1378084 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You can always sell them.....at least for now. What she was probably being told is that she couldn't sell them without taking a loss. So the broker continues to tell her "if you hold to maturity you will receive all your principal back plus all the interest along the way" because.........you know......the USA is good for it.

This is why I suspect the government will never 'default' in the technical sense. They will simply inflate it away. We still haven't entered the inevitable hyperinflation phase. Who knows what happens in between. It's the end that ultimately matters to all of us unless we don't plan on living through it.

BTW not living through it is increasingly being seen as a valid strategy by some.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:37 | 1378104 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

BTW not living through it is increasingly being seen as a valid strategy by some.

It takes a stong man to admit he's been lied to.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:39 | 1378106 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Theyre working hard to keep all 401K pensioners from cashing out by fear stories they'll lose money. Got to keep the pensioners calm until the rug is pulled out and treasury can seize all those trillions.

And who says theres the option of 'living thru it' in the first place....what are IPhone americans suddenly all Jeremiah Johnsons?

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:10 | 1378191 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

And who says theres the option of 'living thru it' in the first place....

That is the ultimate denial....isn't it.

In good times and bad we all have a tendency to hang on to the idea that of the 90% who will suffer we will be one of the 10% that prosper. Living the inauthentic life really leaves us no other option than to lie to ourselves. Any wonder then why we as individuals and as a social order so readily accept liars, thieves and rapists as our leadership?

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:18 | 1378226 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I'm not sure we accept them as much as we created them in our own image all along.

But the distinction does not alter your core premise. So, yeah.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:38 | 1378317 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

To say that we create them in our image is actually the core of many of my articles. But it's easier to swallow if I just say we 'accept' them.

In many cases I'm trying to get people to accept 'radical' ideas here Cougar. It's one thing to say this in an article many just ignore, another entirely to say it in a short comment. 

Baby steps. A year ago my comment would have received 5 junks. I see this as progress.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:50 | 1378350 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I junked you, for old times sake.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:18 | 1378228 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture


what are IPhone americans suddenly all Jeremiah Johnsons?

Meme of the day

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:50 | 1378565 eureka
eureka's picture

The end is right now - and it is liberation - achieved by not identifying with or depending on the empire of leverage and bamboozlement.

Free spirit, self-reliance, mobility.

Fuck the empire.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:55 | 1378131 Boston
Boston's picture

Morgan Stanley?  To buy/sell Treasuries?

They "charge" full point+ spreads and then they thrown the "commission" to add insult to injury.  

Get away from MS.....they're stealing you mother's money!

 

P.S. Here's my painful lesson: Using MS (over a decade ago) I bought a seven figure sum of 10-year notes.  One month later, after the price moved up 2 full points, I called my Morgan Stanley broker to sell and book my "gain".  When I got my confirm, my jaw dropped---Morgan Stanley kept 95% of the price movement, leaving me with peanuts.  When I called to ask how they could do this, my broker said that the trading desk "needs to make money too"!!  I dumped them immediately.  Fucking thieves.

 

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:17 | 1378236 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

But be fair. That was ten years ago!

j/k they really are fucking thieves.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:28 | 1378090 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

Does any Wall Street analyst at all see any distinction between the artificial world of bullshit/derivatives/money printing they live in and the part of the economy that produces actual wealth? I'm not sure I've ever seen any person employed by a bank ever refer to something real in his or her analysis. Fucking tards. I think I'm going to get drunk right now.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:17 | 1378221 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

+1

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:43 | 1378330 narnia
narnia's picture

does any "mainstream" keynesian economist view the development, manufacture and deployment of a bomb any different from the development & deployment of nutrition, provided it has the same effect on GDP?

how about the resources spent hiring of a cop, a judge, a prison guard, a prison complex,  dehmanizing of a whole segment of our society, and destabilizing every nation south of the US?  would eliminating all that crap from GDP be a bad thing? 

until US GDP actually measures the quality of life of Americans, the whole narrative by which our economy and financial system is judged is seriously flawed.    

 

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:43 | 1378502 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

"until US GDP actually measures the quality of life of Americans, the whole narrative by which our economy and financial system is judged is seriously flawed. "

The real measure of the (economic) quality of life is wealth - what people can actually afford to buy and own - not what they can borrow to buy. Most economic indicators don't measure that at all. The dialogue and analysis in the business press don't even take that into account and it has become irrelevant. Real production of wealth has been shrinking massively and is made up for by debt. The debt results in loss of assets by the people through bubbles/bankruptcies/currency devaluation. Everybody is broke and the economy has been deindustrialized. Do the economic indicators used by the government and Wall Street measure that? Let's look at two scenarios:

Scenario one: Let's say I buy a bag of oranges from a Florida farmer for $5. I sell it to Narnia who sells it to Caviar Emptor who sells it back to me. Somewhere in the process Caviar Emptor sells a mark to market CDO based on the oranges to Tyler. I buy the bag back for $25 and hire a minimum wage slave to sell it for me for $40 to someone who puts it on his credit card. I had to take a loan to buy the bag back and Tyler bought the CDO with borrowed money. We're talking serious economic activity here that contributes perhaps x5 as much to GDP than the farmer got for the orange bag in the first place.

Scenario two: I buy the bag for $5, go home and eat the oranges myself.

Question: Which scenario is better for the economy? A measurement of which scenario is more accurate for measuring GDP?

My point is that you can cut real production of wealth in society by half but still show growth based on bogus value add and debt. You can create a whole, vibrant economy around a fucking bag of oranges and some creative financial instruments to help you out. You can even grow while the orange bag shrinks by half.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 16:43 | 1378732 narnia
narnia's picture

my definition of wealth is the ability to maintain a high quality of life, spending my limited time in this life doing what I want with the people I want rather than spending my time earning what my family & I need to survive.  

when the state spends money purchasing bombs & prisons & regulatory agencies that have no value to me on my behalf & finances those purchases through borrowing or printing money, it imposes tax.  it is this tax that has a material impact on price.  your example of the price impact of financing methods, irrespective of how flawed the fiat fractional reserve system we have is, is wildly exhaggerated.  

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:42 | 1378119 Sherman McCoy
Sherman McCoy's picture

Short bonds has go to be the dumbest trade of the last decade. The U.S. is going through what Japan did, and as long as Fed Funds are anchored at zero, bonds can't get much above 4%. Wake me when the Fed tightens.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:17 | 1378220 narnia
narnia's picture

Rates rise in stagflationary periods not because of an increase in demand for credit, but because of inflationary monetary policy.    

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:42 | 1378124 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

imo he is wrong and for all the wrong reasons (the perfecta) or he will be right (over the shorter term) for the wrong reasons. A broken clock is correct twice a day, maybe Caron will be correct once a decade.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:55 | 1378157 bogey4
bogey4's picture

There is almost no way she could be at a loss - rates are at virtually the dead lows for the last 30 years.  The guy doesn't know wtf he's talking about. 

If she (you) really want out, call him and tell him to sell 'em.  If he tries to put too much commission in the trade (there should be almost none) tell him you want to talk to his manager and then the NASD.

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:59 | 1378158 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

buh buh buh bankRATE bitchez!

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 13:58 | 1378165 dcb
dcb's picture

I have been trading tbt, tlt. for the past two months making money both ways. today my tbt is up, because tlt was over sold. for gods saake, draw a speed line on tbt, and if you buy at the last low, you will almost always have a good trade.  and the rsi says you should be short treasuries. but it doesn't matter to me, because I'll make money either way trading tbt, tlt. no position is firm, if I just trade the speed line

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:10 | 1378182 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"As we have stated many times in the past, the outlook for the economy will be the main driver of yields, not the end of QE2..."

bbbwwaaahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahaahhhhaaaa! what a fucktard. say anything to protect bankster myths and lies...

so it is the outlook - not the economy per se - which will drive yields....so everybody mount your skittle shitting unicorns and dump barrels of pixie dust to keep bond yields up....make sure to tune into your favorite news whore who will tell you any sweet nothing to keep your outlook up and hence keep bond yields low so that the verdant green shoots can continue to grow....

and if that doesn't do it, the indonesian-in-chief will wag his finger at you so that you will keep your outlook positive...

or will a positive outlook cause rising rates because the economy is growing too much? hmmmm...what a riddle...

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 14:16 | 1378216 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Ahh yes, Biflation is sooo hard to grasp when you cling to quaint old school notions. The old rules of economics simply are no longer applicable to this new world of terminally distorted markets, trying hard to ignore the rules of supply and demand. Yes, Virginia, there is deflation mixed in with inflation. The grown ups just don't get to see that

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 15:02 | 1378390 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

+1

Let the buyer beware. (seafood buyer?)

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 16:38 | 1378716 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Perhaps 7th time will be the charm.

If you stick to your story long enough, it will eventually come true. Then you get interviewed by Maria Bartiromo and a multi-million book deal.

It's only when you keep changing your story that you run the risk of being wrong all the time. Just ask Cramer. 

Fri, 06/17/2011 - 18:17 | 1378923 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They know whats coming, the bubble of treasuries is about to burst.

Sat, 06/18/2011 - 02:43 | 1379755 libelmage
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