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Morgan Stanley Says Governments Will Default, Only Question Is How

Tyler Durden's picture


Presented without commentary, as we have pretty much said this about a hundred times prior.



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Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:28 | 542669 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I have goose bumps as I prepare to read.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:39 | 542889 B9K9
B9K9's picture

I've been out on the road for a few weeks performing basic reconnaissance and evaluating potential relocation sites. I check in @ ZH, and sure enough, the same cast of characters are still kvetching, moaning, groaning and complaining.

Look, if you guys & gals had any real convictions behind your opinions, you'd get off the fucking computer and start acting out important next steps, as in making necessary preparations for survival. But no, gotta think about the job, pension, benefits, etc. Hah!

Ive been caught in an overseas war; my parents in two (including every dual citizen's favorite ME "second home"). I've seen what happens when the fuse blows and tribal impulses take over. The USA has way, way worse race divisions than the well known religious/cultural Muslim-Hindu, Greek-Turk or Jew-Arab divisions.

If you think for a moment that you're going to get a chance to preserve whatever "assets" you might have accumulated, think again. Or re-evaluate your positions - you cannot hold forth both that the US is going down and that you're going to somehow get through this intact.

Either wake up, realize what is occuring and **act on that intuition**, or stop wasting your time following events and just enjoy the lie the MSM is feeding the sheep.

As for me, I have only one recommendation: Get.Out.Now. EOM

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:04 | 542960 Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

It does surprise me that people who actually have money and property, and who know what's going on, come on this site and post all sorts of apocalyptic prophecy.... but apparently don't do anything to prepare for it. EVERYONE: IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO BUY GUNS AND START A FARM. OK?

As a recent graduate, I have neither money nor property, so this isn't yet an option for me.Go out and save your families, and think of the little guys like me while you do!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:25 | 543003 YourAverageDebtSlave
YourAverageDebtSlave's picture

Better yet I'm starting to think it's better to join the military.  You'll always have first divs on food, first divs on a place to sleep, a gun with many other people on your side with guns, and you're on the right side of a government that can start stripping citizen's freedoms and liberties on a whim (plus you get to do the stripping versus vice versa).  If you are citizen you may or may not have food, may or may not have a place to sleep, may be a literal army of one with your gun, and will be subservient to a government who uses the military to strip your freedoms and liberty at gun point.  Sure a farm and gun sounds nice, but a few guns aren't going to stave off a mob of ignorant, ex-entitled American's who are starving and pissed at the bag of lies they were sold.  A  farm and a gun won't do anyone any good when the government decides to start seizing land and food as a new source of assets.

As a semi-recent graduate, I'm wondering why the fuck I went to college and didn't just sign up with Uncle Sam.  Sure I may get killed in war, but it beats starving or getting killed my starving next door neighbor once SHTF.

Lastly I like how Morgan Stanley (a very big investment bank) gives an 8 page description of a scenario that they along with the Fed, other TBTF banks, and our bank bought government are largely responsible for.  I'm tired of banks (i.e. Goldman, BOA, etc.) giving detailed explanations on how fucked we are, given the fact they are partly the ones running the gangbang. 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:20 | 543187 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Before you do, you need to pay attention to what happened to USSR soldiers after the collapse of the Soviet Empire.  They were not treated well, unless they were high ranking.  

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:37 | 543223 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Yeah, why make any sort of moral stance when just "following orders" is a viable strategy?  Just remember, you make your bed and then you have lie in it.  And when you are ordered to commit an atrocity, or maybe just run into enemy fire, you'll have to follow through.  You're nothing to the govenrment, just cannon fodder.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:49 | 543278 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

so, if you can't beat them, join them?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:10 | 543344 doggings
doggings's picture

also think about if youre prepared to turn your weapons on countrymen, friends and family, because you will without doubt be ordered and "well paid" to at some point.

thats how the hyperinflation truly got underway in Zimbabwe, when they kept having to run off more billions to double and then treble again the pay for the Police and army to keep the growingly unhappy citizenry under control.


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:12 | 543573 YourAverageDebtSlave
YourAverageDebtSlave's picture

Friends and family are one thing, but fellow countrymen?  Honestly I could give a fuck less. America isn't what it was back in 1776.  Too many uneducated sheep who would rather watch Biggest Loser than open up a history book and see the parallels of us and the Weimar Republic.  This board hardly represents the general public.  So why the fuck should I pay for their ignorance and stand side by side with them when SHTF fighting for bread crumbs.  Everyone on this board can say what they want, but when it comes down to survival, most people will say fuck the countryman shit, I'm looking out for me and my own.  And if it takes a military paycheck to do that, that's fine by me.  I'll look to see what happened with the Soviet and Zimbabwe before making a final decision.  But this is bullshit.  Most people on the street could give a flying fuck when you try to talk about the stuff discussed on this board, and you all are calling them countrymen and fellow citizens.  Their ignorance is going to lead to half the shit coming down the pipe.  Fuck patriotism and fuck my fellow countryman.  If they are not friends or family why should I care.  Now I know I'll catch a lot of shit for saying all this, but I'd put money that 99% of the commenters on the board would say the same thing if it came down to survival (and doubly so in such a ignorant, self-absorbed society as ours), and if you don't you're full of shit.  Now let's join hands and sing kumbayah.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:23 | 543607 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

As a former military fella, I have up to this point said that the military would not draw down on their neighbors.  Reading the above makes me realize that if I can be seen as just another mouth to feed, another body to compete with for scarce resources, another "old useless fart" who is dispensable, then...

I just changed my mind.  I guess I forgot how self-centered and egotistical a generation we have just raised.   My apologies to all for my naivete.


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 16:16 | 544096 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Rocky, the kids this time around, well it ain't the Americal Div. y'know. - Ned

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 16:36 | 544166 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, I guess so.  My experience with an M-16 started in 1969 so I guess I do have a leg up on the snot-nose kid.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 17:17 | 544309 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Nowadays, chromed chambers, no sawdust in the round where powder ought to be .

- Ned

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 18:09 | 544422 bIlluminati
bIlluminati's picture


Don't sweat it. Do you think troops like that will behave like those defending New Orleans under Jackson? My guess is that they'd fold faster than the irregulars south of D.C. in the summer of 1814. And that Providence would *not* send a hurricane *or* a tornado to save their sorry asses.

But yeah, I've heard a bunch of young punk "males" proudly proclaim their faithlessness and cowardice.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:39 | 543688 Chump
Chump's picture

Instead of sneering at the sheep perhaps you'd be better served to help them see the truth.  Just sayin'.  If they ignore you then they ignore you, and you are under no obligation to help them when the SHTF.  You never were anyway.  But going from disdain for their ignorance to fuck-them-let's-murk-'em?  Revolting.

Yes, in an all-out survival situation, most people will look out only for themselves and their immediate family.  It does not logically follow, then, that joining the military and killing other people who are trying to survive is "OK."  This shit is gonna be bad enough without bloodthirsty savages backed by the government like yourself performing the exact, same deeds as other bloodthirsty savages roaming the streets.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 16:44 | 544195 JohnG
JohnG's picture

I'm a Marine, retired.

Soldiers take an oath to defend posse commitatas.

If you would break that oath and fire on your countrymen, I hope I'm the first one you fire on. 

I'd shoot you in the head.

Fuck you.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 18:43 | 544494 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

S/F JohnG - Ned

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 17:56 | 544404 JohnG
JohnG's picture

I'm a Marine, retired.

Soldiers take an oath to defend posse commitatas.

If you would break that oath and fire on your countrymen, I hope I'm the first one you fire on. 

I'd shoot you in the head.

Fuck you.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 21:25 | 544819 YourAverageDebtSlave
YourAverageDebtSlave's picture

If it's between my child, wife, parents, or sisters dying of starvation or dehydration versus taking your life for the food or water they need, for your sake I hope you still have a quick and good shot.

Thu, 08/26/2010 - 06:46 | 545302 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

If you are a good neighbor, you don't need to think or act like that. You are better than an animal, you are a human.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:26 | 543383 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ahhh, so you get

a gun with many other people on your side with guns, and you're on the right side of a government that can start stripping citizen's freedoms and liberties on a whim (plus you get to do the stripping versus vice versa).

and you get to kill

a mob of ignorant, ex-entitled American's who are starving and pissed at the bag of lies they were sold.

yeah, HOOORAHHHH - you get to kill amrkn's who were lied to - you da MAN!!!

hope it gets your d**k hard, ready for

running the gangbang


militarised sheep, just what one would expect from this country when all hell breaks loose - you're willing to eat the party line and kill for it - how does that make you smart or "better than", in ANY way?

you are your own hell dude.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 23:38 | 545035 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Where did you guys get this clairvoyance that tells you that ZH readers just sit on their cans all day reading and posting, without having taken any precautionary steps?

I have a place in the Blue Ridge mtns, two places actually, and have my own 30 gpm well, my own power system, pistols, revolvers and four calibers of ammo stored, plus food and various means of exchange set aside.

My guess is there are more here who are like me than not.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:08 | 542970 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

The reason I have so much time to piss, moan, kvetch, groan and complain is that I am already: Located.  Out.  Larder full. 

I agree with your sentiment.  Good luck.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:35 | 543034 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

I've been out on the road for a few weeks performing basic reconnaissance and evaluating potential relocation sites.

Sound like you are way behind the curve if you are just now doing recon.  But that aside I applaud your advice to prep for survival. 

I intend to survive and to preserve assets.  And I intend to stay informed while I do it.  That's what dental floss farming in Montana is all about.

Semper Paratus

Thu, 08/26/2010 - 18:58 | 543768 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

nice handle, gertrude†

cheeks wanted: desert island




chamb the flame:

dental floss




Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:37 | 543043 Dr Emilio Lizardo
Dr Emilio Lizardo's picture

If you believe the apocalypse is nigh...

a good resource to start with

Chris Martenson's survival guide

and a glimpse into the Argentina collapse


I used to be sane....really

....good luck boys and girls

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:43 | 543055 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Dear God man, Mormon survivalists, it appears from your link.  Yikes.

But resilience and the other link, looks like a good read, just glancing at it.  Resilience is probably the best framework from which to approach this.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:49 | 543089 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

Mormon's have been into survival since the beginning.  It is one of the few large survival communities.  Only the roaches will last longer.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:38 | 543229 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Mormonism is also one of the worst kook religions on the planet today!  So it seems like following their advice might be a bad move.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:00 | 543306 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

how is one kook religion worse or better than another? I used to think the same thing about Mormons, that they're closer to a cult than a religion. Then I realized it doesn't matter. Faith and belief in a higher power is not about being logically or rationally most correct. It's about holding something higher than yourself. It's about the humility that we all need to have in our lives and in our affairs.

In short, we're all religious about our beliefs, who cares how "out there" they are. As long as we're not hurting anyone, why can't we believe the moon is made of cheese if it works for us? 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:31 | 543400 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Mormonism is also one of the worst kook religions on the planet today!

I'd say the military, any nation's military, is the worst kook religion on the planet - they follow their self appointed male gods, willing to believe any lies fed them, kill in the name of, and feel special because of it. . .

yep, the military is one kook religion.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:18 | 543595 Chump
Chump's picture

Dismissing a source of information out-of-hand due to an unrelated difference of opinion belies a terrible lack of intelligence.  Learn how to learn; it's an important skill you'll be needing in the very near future.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:41 | 543703 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”  Herbert Spencer

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:02 | 543127 Dr Emilio Lizardo
Dr Emilio Lizardo's picture

Make sure you read the section pertaining to lesbian zombie attacks...


Seriously, I'm not a Mormon but they did a thorough job.  Give it a glance before you dismiss of the better manuals that I've run across.  Feel free to skip the beginning.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:00 | 543311 Marley
Marley's picture

Thanks for the links.  No one will survive without community.  Just saying.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:21 | 543369 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

Exactly! That right there, if nothing else, validates the concept of Mormonism.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 19:38 | 544594 Marley
Marley's picture

Wouldn't know. Most Mormons I know keep their distance from me.  Now that I think about it, most individuals of one denomination, sect, or another tend to utter incantations as they walk by.  Wonder what that means?  :)

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:22 | 543370 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:58 | 543506 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Cool, thanks.  I'll definitely check it out.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 14:42 | 543709 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I just printed out some VERY pertinent pages into small booklets.

Great resource........  Thank you!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 15:04 | 543820 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

i read Under the Banner of Heaven,

jon krakauer plus+

Into Thin Air

good read, as well. knew, really knew some of the players, not the dead ones, though.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:39 | 543050 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

As you reconnoiter (what a funny word), don't discount the encroaching ecological problems. 

Drought, if those such as Lovelock are correct, shall render much useful farm land unproductive.  As example, the amount of rainfall itself is not the right variable to consider.  Average temperature, as well as other factors too...

Complicated shit, which will reduce to a best guess and a f@cking shitload of luck.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:46 | 543071 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've been out on the road for a few weeks performing basic reconnaissance and evaluating potential relocation sites. I check in @ ZH, and sure enough, the same cast of characters are still kvetching, moaning, groaning and complaining.

Look, if you guys & gals had any real convictions behind your opinions, you'd get off the fucking computer and start acting out important next steps, as in making necessary preparations for survival. But no, gotta think about the job, pension, benefits, etc. Hah!

So if a ZH'er has a 9 to 5 (or not) and a roof over his or her head (or not) and not much more (or even less) meaning they can't leave country to do recon on where to move the family fortune, can they still kvetch, moan, groan and complain and ignore the MSM lies or must they submit to the brainwashing because they aren't one of the fortunate few?

Just askin'

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:41 | 543236 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Yes. Um ... I mean no. Wait, what was the question again? ;)


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:16 | 543173 tmosley
tmosley's picture

What, you aren't posting from your fortified mountain compound?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 19:25 | 544583 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Shhh!  It's a secret underground VOLCANO lair!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 15:39 | 543954 Mark Beck
Mark Beck's picture

Actually, the report presented some good data and ideas. For example, its (net) revenue that matters not GDP in reconciling debts.

The missing connection was the concept of large debt service as a negative growth multiplier. This is a relatively new concept that is not talked about in political discourse.

That is, large debt service produces a fallout effect which destroys business growth. First with small business and then working up. It is a side effect of increasing uncontrolled costs. Everything from health care to compliance overhead.

The finite ability to tax was presented, but Laffer was not mentioned.

Mark Beck

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:29 | 542671 Bigger Dickus
Bigger Dickus's picture

Morgan Stanly can kiss my ###

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:30 | 542673 Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Please enable downloading. Thank you.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:36 | 542687 deliciousirony
deliciousirony's picture

clicking full-screen makes it readable at least.


I hate scribd

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:42 | 542708 hellboy
hellboy's picture

or for those who have an employee who disables scridb please upload a pdf...

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:05 | 542774 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture employer blocks scribd as well. 


.PDF please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:00 | 542944 TheDriver
TheDriver's picture

Ask and ye shall receive.

I uploaded a PDF version to rapidshare before realizing that after 10 downloads, they'll restrict access to the file. I've since posted a copy to mediafire. If that fails, I can post it somewhere else.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:34 | 543032 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

Thanks! signed - another scribid hater.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:49 | 543085 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You should watch The Name of the Rose.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:04 | 543132 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

Thanks, I will check it out.. I have 2 others to watch first. Can't help but keep thinking of the end of "The Italian Job" watching this whole thing play out. The original not the remake. They're in the bus right now I think...

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:37 | 542690 The Franchise
The Franchise's picture

Dammit Cheeky, where you been!!!! Hope you are feeling a'ight.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:39 | 542698 sourgrapesson
sourgrapesson's picture

I too missed Cheeky

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:50 | 542731 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

nice to see an intelligent commentator back

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:59 | 542751 Anubis
Anubis's picture

Yes, please enable download for this report

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:20 | 542831 Teaser
Teaser's picture

Welcome back Cheeky, hope you're doing ok.  Miss you commenting.  Even if you do hate Ayn Rand.  Lots of Atlas' are shrugging these days.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:22 | 543373 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

Do you have any idea why he finds her despicable? She should serve as a warning as far as I'm concerned.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 15:08 | 543832 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

her face†

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:30 | 542674 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture

Is USA a PIGS v2.0 State?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:45 | 542716 Translational Lift
Translational Lift's picture

The US debt ratio is worse than Greece....Any more questions??

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:08 | 542791 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

and Greece has a bigger olive oil export then America!! D O O O O M E D!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:20 | 542832 MacedonianGlory
MacedonianGlory's picture



Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:12 | 543151 ambrosiac
ambrosiac's picture


I distinctly remember driving through Corning, CA, though.



(No short on lubes)

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:31 | 542675 Mako
Mako's picture

The system will be imploding.  There will be nothing to pay back absent a system. 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:32 | 542677 dan22
dan22's picture

The Amazing Story of the Hui Xing Gold Mine Ponzi Scheme in Inner Mongolia

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:39 | 542700 Mako
Mako's picture

Those Chinese tanks are not for the purpose of invading another country, they are there to keep their people in line... once the system implodes, they will be rolling those tanks back out.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:33 | 542683 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Guess the Feds couldn't allow the Dow to open below 10,000.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:07 | 542784 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

Nor will they allow it to close below it.  PPT already out in defense of the horrible housing number this morning.....They were expecting BAD and got EVEN WORSE.


Marekt bouncing.....what a fucking joke!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:37 | 542692 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

i dont like it when they say ' this is not one country/continent problem, this is a GLOBAL problem...'

The solution will have to be then global, one world , one currency types?


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:04 | 542768 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Seeing how the euro didn't work, a global currency won't sell, even if our overlords insist on it.  Shiny metals will rule until we sort things out.  I suspect we'll see toe in the water defaults, up to the ankle defaults, up to the knees defaults, then the current takes us all under.  We then produce and sell to the domestic market, cause Wal Mart can't sell high priced imports.   Good news, we have a big domestic market.  Without the yoke of debts we will grow again, maybe smarter this time.  Fat Chance?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:50 | 542914 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Global currency to be named "Bancor"

A paper entitled “Reserve Accumulation and International Monetary Stability” by the Strategy, Policy and Review Department of the IMF recommends that the world adopt a global currency called the “Bancor” and that a global central bank be established to administer that currency.  The report is dated April 13, 2010. (April 13 wasn't a Friday)

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:23 | 543002 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

When the $1 Canadian coin came out, the elites were appalled that the public named it the "loonie," for the loon on it.  When the $2 coin came out the elites speculated that people would call it the "doubloon" or maybe something to do with the bear on it. The great unwashed called it the "toonie," naturally.   The IMF may find itself irrelevant when we sort stuff out.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:04 | 543134 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

The IMF is basically a criminal organization promoted by the true criminals of this planet.

I'm sure this will last about 1/10th as long as the Euro will.  Euro done by Q2 2011,

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:04 | 542959 B9K9
B9K9's picture

I recentaly re-watched an older show on the German Jewish diaspora during the late 30s just before the blade fell. The only thing safe havens (primarily the USA) would accept for entrance was either fame or PMs.

Sort of like the old adage about ass, grass or gas, no one rides for free. If you think that the various places where the astute have already re-located will allow any old refugee to roll right in, because 'their kids are hungry' or some other such sentimental nonsense, please think again.

There is going to be a price to pay to gain admission, and the only valid currency is going to be PMs.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:12 | 543152 bob resurrected
bob resurrected's picture

Astute or asstute?

I intend to feed, not shoot, any ol' refugee that rolls in. They can even stay and help if they want. Stockpiling puts a target on your back, decreasing the odds of survival. And, what is the point in survival anyway, if you lose your humanity?

Stockpiling invites anti-social behavior; facilitating production capacity invites social behavior.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:50 | 543470 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

thank you for this post bob - most "ME FIRST!" 'ers have zero awareness of the notion of "community" - how to build it, how to participate in it, the benefits of a group of people working together towards survival - this "guns out balls-to-the-wall" gang are going to be in for a rude awakening. . .

people, if you have land, consider "posting" perimeter groups, family, friends,others who will garden the corners away from your home - keep the basics in the center, surrounded by loyal folk to "negotiate" interlopers. . . and let all surrounding "communities" know you intend to defend, whilst maintaining supportive barter networks. . .

what is the point in survival anyway, if you lose your humanity?

+ 1000.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:38 | 542694 The Franchise
The Franchise's picture

I can't wait for the next positive day so Pisani can wear his "Look folks this market was way oversold and talking to traders today they are looking at....."

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:39 | 542699 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

10k broken.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:41 | 542702 Paul S.
Paul S.'s picture

Hats please.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:42 | 542710 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Back up above 10k. PPT defending it at all costs.

I wonder how many taxpayer dollar go towards... eh, who are we kidding. I wonder how many dollars are printed today, to keep the five digits.


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:37 | 542884 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

The answer is simple -- all of them past present and future.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:29 | 543015 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

psychology wins over facts every time, until it doesn't...


are you there god, it's me, sanity...

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:38 | 542887 old_turk
old_turk's picture

Watch the S&P battle line at 1040 ... if that support position folds, the Dow 10k will collapse like a cheap tent. 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:46 | 543072 Rasna
Rasna's picture

I'm guessing that 1040 will hold temporarily... The Sep ES futures sold down to 1039.50 an ran out of gas on 34238 contracts on the bid vs 23896 on the bid... at that point the "buyer stepped in... 40701 contracts on the ASK vs 28718 on the BID to halt the sell off...

1040 is the line in the sand... That coupled with a gap at around 1065 that will probably be filled... Only some kind of event will overwhelm the PPT... Just sayin'...

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:05 | 543136 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

It fell below 1040 a couple of weeks ago and the droids bought until it went back up again. These number don't mean anything.

Thu, 08/26/2010 - 04:54 | 545270 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

thats what i was thinking...many a times Supports have been broken and resistances smashed without showing any signs that they were important levels.....these NUMBERS dont mean anything....

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:39 | 542701 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

the government will then go into receivership to gs, ms, boa, and a horde of other filth soaked banksters.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:13 | 542810 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Silver is getting uppity again today.  Must make JPM noivous.  Gold may not behave either. GS is getting antsy too.  The plan is getting all screwed up ahead of tomorrow's scheduled smack downs.  Bonds, anyone?  Backed by the full faith of the US Gov't in its ability to squeeze a bit more out of Dick and Jane.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:18 | 542827 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Squeezing Dick and Jane: How the Primary Dealers, Federal Reserve, and Congress Stole the Entire Productive Capacity of the US.

Sounds like a best seller to me.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:41 | 542706 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Ponzi. Unsustainable.  Who ever heard of these terms applied to the United States of America before a few years ago?   Now everybody knows. 

The storm came ashore in 2008.  The eye of the hurricane is passing by; a brief window to check the damage and tighten things up.  It's too late to build on higher ground or get out of dodge.  Batten the hatches and hunker down.  

oh yeah, I almost forgot...


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:38 | 542886 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Indeed sir! The winds on the back side of a hurricane always cause the most damage.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:46 | 542719 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Latest contrarian term: "Recession Porn". Tony Robbins is sooo last week

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:54 | 542739 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

william the bastard

I myself prefer Ebola. The USA is so Ebola, or the Fed really handed out some Ebola today. Or damn that Obama really put us in  the Ebola.


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:15 | 542821 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Tony still stands as a good summary for all us truck drivers who think libor is a spelling error.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:49 | 542729 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

scary shiznit.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:51 | 542735 The Franchise
The Franchise's picture


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:51 | 542734 deliciousirony
deliciousirony's picture

This one little chart clipped from the above document is really scaring the crap out of me:

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:19 | 542828 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the guys running the country are idiots. they put out a trillion in stimulus and almost none of it gets into consumers pockets. the banks practice usury on their credit card customers, ZIRP is such a lie, and people use those credit cards for important stuff, like antibiotics. if only the money would fall out of the helicopters, and then close the port of entry to foreign container ships (whats wrong with protectionism, is there something wrong with the word 'PROTECT") then the economy could begin a recovery. Instead we have to default to satisfy the multinational corporations, and Jack Welch and CNBC so D cup can over J-hole. (investor porn) 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:39 | 542892 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

There there, say it with me, "Mission Accomplished."

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:39 | 542893 ATM
ATM's picture

You circled the wrong column. The scary column is the middle one that shows US receipts at 14% and the Euros around 50%. That's what we are heading to because the US has had Euro socialism without the benefit (or curse) of Euro style taxation.

The US Govt will simply take their pound of flesh one way or another, either thhrough taxes or through inflation, but they are going to take not only a much larger portion of national income but also a very large portion of national wealth.

We're going to be poor Bitcheez!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:57 | 542740 Oswald Spengler
Oswald Spengler's picture

The neo cons got us into Iraq but didn't confiscate the oil. What kind of empire doesn't take what it needs? And what is Afghanistan all about? Minerals? Caspian oil pipeline?Give me a break. I couldn't care less about primitive tribes peoples. They can all go stone themselves after doing whatever it is they do to their goats The current depression will result in war but this time the U.S. needs to make money off it.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:58 | 542749 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Oswald Spengler

Dude you are assuming that any government action has a single motivator. Look for five or six, maybe more. Some may seem obscure now but later make sense.

For example Kosovo gave us Camp Bondsteel which allowed the US to extend their base ring into striking distance of the Mid-East. A big old line right through Europe.

The ultimate plan is to have so many bases that the US can be anywhere in the world within three hours.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:13 | 542815 macholatte
macholatte's picture


Afghanistan =>  Heroin


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:15 | 542823 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

more like oxycontin

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:32 | 542872 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


"Afghanistan =>  Heroin"

I just saw some article today who's headline was US allows Russia in Afghanistan to battle drug trade.

I had to wonder which war lord we were pissed off at? Karzai's brother? You know Karzai has been acting like a real boy lately.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 09:55 | 542743 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

I think the banks are dumping the market to get the Krugman 4 trillion in stimulus money. Theywant the real choppers to come out.
That and the fact that we need to sell the other mirage- treasuries bonds and notes.
Here we go.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:00 | 542757 Pampalona
Pampalona's picture

Why not put expiry dates on all stimulus money... Like u have a month to use it or lose it, wouldn't this force velocity?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:09 | 542794 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

that was part of past Fed discussion, they would put time date strips inside the cash, rendering it useless if it isn't spent within a certain period. Without these guys gold would still be $32 an oz.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:14 | 543165 AbandonShip
AbandonShip's picture


Google "Worgl Experiment".  It kind of worked in Austria in 1932.



Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:48 | 543268 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It wouldn't matter, the stimulus could not find a useful purpose as it was.  If you add an expiration date, all you are doing is further reducing its possibilities. 

Hennepin County (Minneapolis) got a federal grant to run DUI patrols over the next couple of weekends.  The local media made huge hay over the whole thing.  But the underlying fact is that the money did not come from anywhere--it's federal stimulus, aka printed money, and it isn't going anywhere productive, it's been used so taht a bunch of cops (union members) can make some overtime and we can keep pretending that we live in a viable community.  You can't make this shit up--it is totally fucking stupid!  And as we reach the pinnacle of stupidity, the only thing a rational person can desire is the end of the stupidity, no matter what form that end takes.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:08 | 542783 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Ron Paul Calls for Audit of US Gold Reserves : Kitco News Exclusive

"Paul’s solution is to not replace the Fed with anything.  “It would make the dollar strong… who wants money to be devalued? I want a strong dollar and if it were equivalent to gold it would remain strong.”

Paul also said he wants to legalize the freedom for people to choose.  “My proposal for now is to legalize the constitution to use gold and silver as legal tender in a parallel standard and have it compete with paper money. If people get tired of using the paper standard they can deal in gold or silver,” he said.

On the topic of gold price manipulation, Paul said, “I think it is probably true.”"

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:40 | 542894 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Now an audit would require a physical count now wouldn't it?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:46 | 542902 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:11 | 542802 Ckierst1
Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:18 | 542817 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

At school when I was young, we traded in marbles.

The system was flawless!

And whenever you ran out of marbles, you just kicked a fat kids ass and TATA!! Plenty of marbles again!

I guess Benny B. didn't got the right eductation to learn that lesson.

What  I mean is this:

In the past, whenever a country went to war, the one that won just took everyting for the losers. In thus, the victor got richer.

Now, after the battle we pump in money into the country that lost...

So every poor country has this big sign hanging at their airports saying:


It's even getting worse!

Like a few weeks ago: It rained in Pakistan, and now they ask billions?!

Their own government can't do anything (they are to bussy building nuclear weapons and supporting Al Quaida)

GET REAL PEOPLE! In the past that meanth: This is the time to invade that country, kick their ass and rob them blind!


For thousands of years, that was basic economics.

You need money = invade a weaker country.


I'm just saying...

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:22 | 542838 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Actually the US pumps debt into those ocuntries.  Remember it's shear, don't slaughter.  Wait, the slaughter has commenced.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:22 | 542844 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

now we're the weaker country. nice thought

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:40 | 542896 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

This is america. We can squalor this place up so bad that 3rd world country refugees will go GODDAMN those poor people.

Look at what we did to detroit in 2 or 3 years!!

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:53 | 542924 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

HA!!!! +1,238

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:00 | 542945 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Remembers me when the GOM had that thingy with BP who had a thingy with a littly oil leak :)


Iran wanted to donate 5 million dollar to America to support the victims :)

Bummer Obama turned it down...

I bet he's now back on the phone with them to ask if the offer still stands :)

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:24 | 542849 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

We really screwed up doing the imperialism thing.  All we got was the Phillipines, more trouble than it was worth. We coulda had Cuba but turned them loose without making a dime.   We were smart enough not to keep Iraq, but couldn't we have found a buyer?  Next time someone calls us imperialists, I'm saying, "I wish." 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:53 | 542923 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm not sure but I think the installed IMF government in Iraq is getting meat grindered.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:28 | 542863 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Sudden Debt


Wisdom from The Mouse That Roared

Prime Minster Count Rupert Mountjoy: We must declare war on the United States.
Benter: But we can never win such a war!
Prime Minster Count Rupert Mountjoy: Of course not, but we could win the peace. I've given this a lot of thought gentlemen and I'm perfectly positive that I am right. You must remember, the Americans are a very strange people. Whereas other countries rarely forgive anything, the Americans forgive anything. There isn't a more profitable undertaking for any country than to declare war on the United States and to be defeated.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:11 | 543149 Oswald Spengler
Oswald Spengler's picture

Perhaps we should encourage the heroin trade in Afghanistan; although I think the C.I.A. is already involved in the trade. But why not nationalize the business and get the benefit of the profit. The so called war on drugs is a waste of money. If people want to become junkies, step right up. Uncle Sugar's got some sugar for you. Besides, druggies are worthless anyway.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:53 | 543287 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The war on drugs is not a waste if you are a statist.  Remember:  Think like they do.  The war on drugs has been a huge success in the centralization of power, the reduction of liberties, and the expansion of the police apparatus.  Now all the cops in my community have some variation of an M4 carbine in their cars, and many of them wear military style uniforms.  The ultimate goal of the unwinnable war was not to win, it was wholly different than the stated goals.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 18:42 | 544490 bIlluminati
bIlluminati's picture

Not to mention all the district attorneys, defense lawyers, judges, prison guards, prison labor profiteers, newpapers, television news, military, contractors, and, oh yeah, 0.8% of all money spent on the drug trade helps poor Afghani and Columbian farmers. Unless they get shken down or killed.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:21 | 542833 jc125d
jc125d's picture

Surely MS has conceived of some sharp money making schemes to enable sovereign states to work out their indebtedness. Unfortunately, the choice of the requisite pound of flesh will not be of the debtors' choosing.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:21 | 542834 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

I small view on the ground in CA.  Despite the recent "threats" of another year of IOUs, the word on the street among state employees is "all is clear".  The re-hiring has begun in earnest after the June fiscal year close.  Pigs at a trough.  Sure there are rumblings about future benefits being curtailed, but that is "somebody elses problem."  But the meltdown still lingers and all the free-lunchers that voted Obama in are expecting it to rain dollars to keep everything working normally.  Some folks are so happy to come off furloughs, they are dumping their "extra" money into the stock market to make up for their pension losses.  The litmus test is how the government buracracy is affected going forward.  Those union voting blocks are a little different than the shell-shocked GM workers.


"California Love"
(feat. Dr. Dre)

California love!

[1]-California...knows how to party
California...knows how to party
In the citaaay of L.A.
In the citaaay of good ol' Watts
In the citaaay, the city of Compton
We keep it rockin! We keep it rockin!

[Verse One: Dr. Dre]

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west
A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness
The track hits ya eardrum like a slug to ya chest
Pack a vest for your Jimmy in the city of sex
We in that sunshine state with a bomb ass hemp beat
the state where ya never find a dance floor empty
And pimps be on a mission for them greens
lean mean money-makin-machines servin fiends
I been in the game for ten years makin rap tunes
ever since honeys was wearin sassoon
Now it's '95 and they clock me and watch me
Diamonds shinin lookin like I robbed Liberace
It's all good, from Diego to tha Bay
Your city is tha bomb if your city makin pay
Throw up a finger if ya feel the same way
Dre puttin it down for
[repeat 1]

[2]-Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it mama
Shake it Cali
Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it shake it shake it...

[Verse Two: 2Pac]

Out on bail fresh outta jail, California dreamin
Soon as I stepped on the scene, I'm hearin hoochies screamin
Fiendin for money and alcohol
the life of a west side playa where cowards die and its all ball
Only in Cali where we riot not rally to live and die
In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right)
Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do
Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews
Famous cause we program worldwide
Let'em recognize from Long Beach to Rosecrans
Bumpin and grindin like a slow jam, it's west side
So you know the row won't bow down to no man
Say what you say
But give me that bomb beat from Dre
Let me serenade the streets of L.A.
From Oakland to Sacktown
The Bay Area and back down
Cali is where they put they mack down
Give me love!
[rpt 1]

[dre] now make it shake...

[rpt 2]

[Outro: Dre, 2Pac]

uh, yeah, uh, longbeach in tha house, uh yeah
Oaktown, Oakland definately in tha house hahaha
Frisko, Frisko
[Tupac] hey, you know LA is up in this
Pasadena, where you at
yeah, Inglewood, Inglewood always up to no good
(Tupac) even Hollywood tryin to get a piece baby
Sacramento, sacramento where ya at? yeah

Throw it up y'all, throw it up, Throw it up
Let's show these fools how we do this on that west side
Cause you and I know it's tha best side

yeah, That's riight
west coast, west coast
uh, California Love
California Love


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:30 | 542868 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

What?  No mention of Red Bluff or Eureka?  And the whole valley of CA is dissed by omission.  They never heard of Fresno in LA?  Black crackers be Dre and his krewe.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:53 | 543098 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

bank on zh. got to have the visual,, damn it is fine.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 18:48 | 544506 bIlluminati
bIlluminati's picture

And what about Mono Lake (sounds like a place where teenagers go to make out), the White Mountains (no rainbows or unicorns here), the Eureka Valley Girls' School (very strict in between the mounds - of sand - I hear), Mammoth Lake (where the Wooly Bully once roamed), Scotty's Castle (nowadays the government just seems to rook us), or the Owens Valley (where Buck was raised).

Thu, 08/26/2010 - 18:52 | 546950 kathy.chamberli...'s picture

Mono Lake dried up. too bad. Yosemite is slpendid, too many touists, now.

Mammoth lake nice but sierra's aren't that doable. funny mountain range.

Mammoth is mammoth.

Owens valley, YIKES. did a 100 mile mountain bike race through white mountains, oldest living trees, bristlecones pine. bishop, CA. it is OK. saw lots of rattlesnakes.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:21 | 542837 mephisto
mephisto's picture

Clearly MS is pitching for business in China.

Us? American? Nooooooooooo, we're from, erm, Hong Kong. See this research, now would a US firm ever write that? Hmm?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:30 | 542866 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

How? Currency devaluation that's how, silly.

But when USD loses reserve status, Project Mayhem will succeed soon.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:31 | 542871 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

They will create inflation - then death tax, estate tax, 60% tax on hardship withdrawals of 401K, IRA or eliminate altogether, dividends tax, increase capital gains tax, confiscate (attempt to) privately held gold, or if it gets really bad confiscate IRA's and 401K's and call it a "national emergency" and promise to "pay it back".

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:52 | 542919 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

FDR took everyone's gold. It was an emergency you see. So why not?

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 11:37 | 543042 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Frankie took the gold that people were gullible enough to turn in.  This time Obama will send out deputized SEIU thugs with search warrants and lists from bullion dealers and coin shops.  Joe Biden will probably goof up and announce the plan in advance, giving us time to empty our storage lockers and bury it all in cut banks and cow lots. Or maybe the Loser in Chief will be on an extended vacation after vacating 1600 PA.  

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 12:30 | 543205 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah that's not happening.  That's a one way ticket to a nation-wide bloodbath.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 17:34 | 544345 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

I'm spray painting some lead coins right now--those SEIU thugs ain't that smart.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:36 | 542882 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

MS is hinting at what I've been saying openly. Maybe they don't want to stir up the hornets. 

The way they're going to handle the impending US sovereign debt crisis is through a series of soft defaults. Gradually reneging on obligations to stakeholders, mainly through cutbacks in major programs like social security and medicare. It will be presented, packaged and spun not as "cutbacks" or "restructuring", oh no! It will take the form that's already being proposed in Congress: raising the qualifying retirement age every few years, phasing benefits in gradually, disqualifying people with other income above a threshold, prorating for things like region and marital status etc.... It will take the name of "Austerity" and "responsible government" but make no mistake, it's defaulting on promised obligations. That, of course, could touch off a wave of political fighting. Hang on to yer panties, bitchez ! 

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:56 | 542935 giddy
giddy's picture


Wed, 08/25/2010 - 13:05 | 543329 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Bingo! Slow erosion by nibbles and an occasional bite.

This MS 'news' is a forewarning for bond holders. I am not one of them... but, I think they will be spared as much as possible while those receiving transfer payments will be thrown under the train...gradually.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:40 | 542895 lbrecken
lbrecken's picture

these people are brain dead...they admit enivitability when all alternatives are exhausted and OBAMA is finished.

Wed, 08/25/2010 - 10:41 | 542897 lbrecken
lbrecken's picture

these people are brain dead...they admit enivitability when all alternatives are exhausted and OBAMA is finished. And to sve their own face after attempting to protect liberal policies...

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