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@"Mortgages Were Fraudulently Pledged to Multiple Buyers at the Same Time ".
so now we have a virtual ponzi ^2. wow. i think the saying goes ...
"sold for a song". let me think.....
think of it as recapitalizing the banks by other / unorthodox means.
If a fraud occurs in the forest and no one investigates it, was there a fraud?
Ugh, let me try again.
I think you haven't formulated the issue properly.
I think you haven't formulated the central issue improperly. What you contend,
"The failure of the mortgage originators and banks to prepare and record proper documentation has led to an epidemic of fraud"
should instead read
"The desire to make inordinate profits, quickly led to the realization that extra-legal measures were required. This, in turn, neccessitated improper, i.e. fraudulent documentation."
In short, the intent to defraud underlies this entire sordid business. It is not an outgrowth of it, but rather, it's raison d'etre.
Proving this in court would be difficult, but, I sense, from all the reading I have done to date, far from impossible. In that regard, one must beware of attempts-already underway- to subvert thorough and proper judicial proceedings.
Today marks an important turning point for global markets and the USD strength I warned about has arrived.
Is anyone else out there starting to think we are all going to get what we deserve?
Fraud at exponent.......... 10................100...........................................................
This thing is Super-nova big.
B of A says there is nothing wrong with any of the paperwork and will move forward with 100,000 foreclosures. Denial. Hope all 100,000 review the documents to determine if a defense exists.
So, my servicer can sell my loan to multiple trusts, yet somehow keep them all happy with my single monthly payment? Ok...
In other words, Madoff was an amateur in comparison to this massive ponzi.
They buy treasuries with the money from the duplicate sales.
The treasuries then outperform the MBS once you start taking all the defaults into account. .GOV may have turned a blind eye because they liked the demand for treasuries.
Curious isn't it. Mortgage sliced and diced and sold. Must be a big job to determine which part of the payment goes where.
They tell us that computerized parsing of millions of facebook entries is done to gather personal information usable for marketing purposes. The business of computerized secure recording of realty transaction information and title recording should be a profitable business. If I was a banker, I would certainly view such a service as worth the money.
Front page WSJ: Banks Resume Foreclosures.
BofA's enthusiasm in publicly announcing the resumption of foreclosures is strictly a public relations show. "We've concluded our in-depth review in the space of a week and want to assure everyone that everything is A-OK, and you can move long now." Well, we know it's not, and so it will continue to play out at a very granular level, until the losses become too big to ignore.
That is reality.
Let's see... If I sell the same house to multiple buyers without their knowlege, I am a con-man and go to prison for 25 years... Hmmm...
That's only true if you aren't a TBTF bank.
During fuedal days, there was one set of laws for the poor and another for the wealthy. For instance, you could torture a peasant to death, but it was against the law to torture a nobleman.
These days the wealthy elite can break the laws over and over again, and then get bailed out by the taxpayer. If the taxpayer did the same, he'd go to jail.
FRAUD, FRAUD, FRAUD.
I'm so sick of the holier than thou prattling about how they always pay their bills and they are not concerned with FRAUD.
Wake up, this ain't just about you.
The Supreme Court in KELO already took away your right to your property whether you pay the mortgage or not; and now the banks are taking away property after selling title to multiple purchasers in a highly leveraged ponzi scheme then getting bailed out by the taxpayer.
Now they are foreclosing using FRAUDULENT methodology and processes that could be used to STEAL anyone's home - mortgage paid or not.
Quit bleating and go out and buy a Springfield XD .45 caliber and a Ruger Mini-14 and ammo "freedom kit" and get ready to fight.
Got the Mini-14, and one of these as well:
Fraud pays... until it doesn't... Rico bitchez
Anything that complex had to be created by a Felon!
THIS IS GETTING GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
An hour. That's all it would take to figure this out on the MER's database. You could sort that data in one lousy hour to look for duplicate entries.
My understanding from other discussions is that loans are asssigned to MERS. MERS does not assign loans to others. At least not until the foreclosure is completed. Then the losses are supposed to be spread among the junior tranches - at the will of whom??.
Except that several court decisions have declared that, since the loans were not assigned and recorded within the required 90 days, all loans held by MERS for more than 90 days are without recourse. They are now all non-secured loans, assigned to no one yet.
Fallout?? Those who purchased MBSs are discovering there is nothing in them except a note that says mortgages to be assigned later. And when the loans are assigned, if they come from MERS they will be unsecured loans.
I bet those HFT computers Goldman has could work out the paper mess by lunch!
Yep. I posted a similar comment on another thread. MERS will be a treasure-trove for the class action guys when they get rolling.
Oh please, please, please tell me it was predominantly the non-performing loans.
fraud.. stealing with the element of deception.
they sell rights to gold many times over...why not your house too?!?!
I have first hand knowledge of this. Had I been a little smarter I could have made a play for a free house. I paid a lawyer to monitor the lawyers from the mortgage company that I was paying as they hammered the guy who wanted to default me. At the time (08), I thought it was just garden variety fraud, incompetence, or identity theft -- now I wonder if either of the mortgage companies had good paper. Cute part - they were both using the same servicer.
That is what I have been saying all along. That is why it is such a mess and the Banks wrote so many CDS's against the bad loans. They never though the pieces would ever be put back together again. Just like Humpty Dumpty.
They defrauded in my opinion the Insurers like AIG, ABK, MBI, PMI etc. By getting them to insure a bad loan 3 and 4 times. Then took insurance against those bad loans. In addition they Shorted the Insurers because they knew the loans would fail and the Insurers would have to pay out claims.
I think Treasury Secrutary Paulson knew what was going on as he was CEO of Goldman Sachs when these Mortgages were sold many times over. That is why in my opinion he Nationalized FRE, FNM, AIG so that those Companies would be controled by the Government and no one could force an audit and the theft and deceipt would be hidden forever. I also find it interesting that he wrote himself a Get Out Of Jail Free card into the Tarp Bill. That in itself is telling.
I had an retired banker friend over on Saturday. He said none of this stuff was new, having seen some of this going on in the early '90s. His excuse...sloppiness. I maintained that forging a signature is not sloppiness, but fraud.
After a half hour of this, I realized that the word "fraud" has no meaning in the banking/finance industry. Once you realize that, this all makes sense.
The F word has the same effect in Congress. Hence the problem
Yes and Bernie Madoff is sitting in jail for walking on red :)
Although I guess a quick re-indoctrination to real-world moral values via a good whack to the face with a golf-club could sort this skewed view of the world in no time.
“Banking doesn’t involve fraud, banking IS fraud.” - Tim Madden
Of course! It is 'legal' for banks to loan money that the banks don't have, which is the very definition of fractional reserve banking! Maybe counterfeiting is a better way to describe F R banking. Why most of the rest of the world believes this is acceptable is evidence that most people are deluded and/or insane.
your avatar is batty
yeah but fraud is illegal for the rest of us, so say the bankers
My loan was part of the Bear Sterns securitization machine. I have found it identified with one Trust. How can I determine if it has been sold multiple times??
Find out if your current LIEN holder has the ORIGINAL TITLE DEED.
If they have it, you should be safe no matter if it was sold or not.
IF the Original Docs ( And I mean Original), are in their hot little hands,not a photo copy,orig in ink,signed by you.
Should have no issues.
Better have signed in ink. And blotted it. Modern copiers are marvels of accuracy. However , I don't think they can defeat a up to date designed indenture (matching edges), ink sample areas ....
Choose from below:
1. Tea leaves
2. Chicken bones
3. 82nd Airborne Division
I saw the same. "No problem, move along sheeple, nothing to see here". The propaganda/indoctrination mills are out in full force; we're supposed to believe that shit don't stink anymore, and BofA farts cherry blossoms.
looks like the only way out is to get rid of the banks, and declare a jubilee.
Then the ponzi can start over.
But that would support unaffordable housing. We need a collapse in home values before we can start over.
We're still way above the historic mean on the housing price to income ratio.
Yes, and no ...
The problems of the underlying unemployment and negative balance of payments do not go away. It makes main street healthier temporarily, the country healthier temporarily, destroys all of the wealth in the large bank stocks and bonds and will bite into their control for a bit ... but the problem will come back.
The path to destroying the dollar, should over the course of 10 to 20 years, put people back to work, raise the standard of living of the rest of the world and allow the banks and the wealthy to continue to build their power and control... as the rest of us become their slaves.
It's ok...just saw a BAC analyst pumping up BAC earnings pre-market with a waive off of any problem with BAC mortages....'not a big deal' he says. I guess we are going to see if there is any rule of law left for the little people in the country sooner than later.
Why wait. The answer is NO.
That's because they'll legalize the fraud. Which doesn't surprise me at all.
This was nothing more than one rather ill-informed person's opinion.
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