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Most Overhyped Black Friday In History A Dud? ShopperTrak Reports Just 0.3% Increase In Black Friday Sales Over 2009, Drop In Real Terms

Tyler Durden's picture


The shopping day that was supposed to signal the renaissance of the US consumer, and justify the massive overhiring by US retailers (not to mention the completely dislocated from reality surge in stock price for razor thin margin retailers like Amazon), is increasingly seeming to be a dud. WSJ reports, citing channel checker ShopperTrak, that "Black Friday sales rose only slightly from a year ago even though more
shoppers visited stores, retail traffic monitor ShopperTrak said
Saturday, setting the stage for another uncertain holiday season for
retailers. Sales increased 0.3% to $10.7 billion, according to ShopperTrak, which
installs monitoring devices in stores to gauge traffic. Traffic rose by
2.2%, ShopperTrak said." For the observant ones out there, this is in nominal terms: adjusted for inflation there was actually a drop in end sales. Even so, the primary reason for the disappointment is that Black Friday actually started early on in the month, with most retailers offering comparable loss-leading deals such as those seen on the Friday after the national holiday early in November, reducing the actual purchasing power for the all important day. "The smaller than expected increase is due in part to discounts offered
earlier in November as well as online-only promotions, ShopperTrak
founder Bill Martin said.
Traffic to stores was up over 6% for the first
two weeks of November, an early boost that could affect retailers'
performance in the coming weeks, he said." Last but not least it should also be noted that with millions of Americans living mortgage payment free for over 18 months now, and using money that should be going to banks (and nationalized GSEs) to instead purchase shoe closet 32 inch TVs, that sooner or later the bulk of American taxpayers who funded yet another top line (but certainly not margin) bonanza for the nation's retailers may soon say enough, and vote against further subsidies of zombie companies whose existence allows for continued US consumer "strength."

More from the WSJ:

"The reality is we have a deal-driven consumer in 2010," Mr. Martin said in a release. "The American shopper has adapted to the economic climate over the last couple of years and is possibly spending more wisely as the holiday season begins."

It is not all bad news: it turns out the conversion rate was higher as more Americans than last year, taking a clue from their leaders, have decided to buy now, and pay never:

In a somewhat more optimistic reading than ShopperTrak's, market research firm NPD Group Inc. said retailers did a better job this Black Friday in getting people who visited their stores to leave with something in the shopping bag. The so-called rate of conversion rose by 4% over the prior-year period, NPD said, with 95% of shoppers in stores making a purchase.

"Retailers did a better job of luring consumers in with big deals and great savings," Marshal Cohen, NPD Group's chief industry analyst, said in a release.

We hope to get more in-depth channel checks courtesy of our own expert network over the next day, but for the time being we are content that CNBC's producers are already huddling around a conference table 3 deep, coming up with ways to spin the disappointing sales data as favorable to the familiar teleprompter reading propaganda crew.


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Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:00 | 758068 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

Let's see..."My name is Seoul and I'm only 30 miles from...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:03 | 758071 Blaise Pascal
Blaise Pascal's picture

Very disappointing, but unsurprising.

And this is as short a Christmas-shopping season as you can have.  Only three more full weekends before Christmas.

Fasten belts.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:59 | 758355 midtowng
midtowng's picture

They hype each and every Black Friday weekend.

 The last couple years the first reports were about how retail buying was waaayyy up. Then a couple weeks later the news comes out that retail buying was actually down.

It happens every year.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 08:37 | 758576 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

This story helps to explain the after hours dump on Friday. Think about it. By noon the first reports available to insiders from Amex, Visa, and MC are available.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:09 | 758076 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I'm going to give some 1/10th oz Gold Eagles to some of my nephews and nieces.

Sorry, Macy's.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:12 | 758082 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Silver Maples for me. F*ck the banks and the b*llshit corporate/consumerism holiday created to sell more iCrap.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:57 | 758140 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

We're spreading the concioussness, traderjoe, spreading the concioussness...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:14 | 758160 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Pandemonium at Local Coin Dealer for Black Friday
As the doors opened at 6am, silver buyers stampeded the counter to snap up inventory...

Black Friday silver sales are expected to hit a record kicking off this holiday season...

Back to you bitchez in the CNBC studio...

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:36 | 758393 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture
Just as few days ago from Harvey's Organ: The usa mint revealed yesterday, a massive volume of sales so far this month equal to almost 3.8 million oz This is deadly to the bankers as the comex is not getting the silver it needs to satisfy long contracts. The USA produces around 40 million oz of silver per year out of the world's global production of 600 million-700 million oz. Silver is mainly produced as a bi-product as there are few purely silver producers. Demand for silver has been rising and at last count it is 900 million oz. Scrap silver and officially hidden China silver, balance the difference. The USA must use all of its domestic production in the minting of their silver eagle/silver commemoratives. If the mint continually has demand for 3.8 million oz this month,or 46 million oz for the year, then the USA must import silver from other sources to fulfill their needs.
Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:26 | 758810 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Just think if Billy Mays was still around to sell Oxy-Silver coins on cable channel info-mercials...

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:45 | 758394 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Just picked up a hand full of these. Not a pot smoker personally (my drug of choice is Jameson), but as a libertarian I have a beef with drug laws.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 04:40 | 758522 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

You might have fallen for a scam there, I'm afraid. At .999 "fine" (point 999 fine) you probably bought something similar to a whisky with .80 (point 80) proof. A bullion coin would indicate 9999 "fine silver".

If you paid by PayPal, you might still manage to recover your money, should you want to do so.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:29 | 758664 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

I always thought that gold bullion coins were defined by 99.99% (0.9999) purity, and silver bullion coins were defined by 99.9% (0.999) purity.

Thanks for setting me straight on this.......


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 15:51 | 759163 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Looks like my maples, rings like my maples and feels like my maples. Happy with them since they are presents. Prefer .999 silver over FRNs.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:54 | 758692 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

.999 is a pure bullion coin and the Northwest Territorial Mint does excellent work as evidenced by their fine bars, coins and Panamerican bars and coins as well. As a private issue, it should have cost you 1 to 2 dollars over spot plus shipping. 

The .9999 designation is found on Maple leafs only for the most part with American eagles containing .997 silver and the rest in copper for example. Brittannias come in at .964 and command a huge charge over spot. 

You did just fine.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 04:04 | 760477 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

Sorry, my bad. I got thrown by several aspects of that coin/website - no mention of the word silver except in the "silver Sativa", no mention of the NW Mint, the fact that no physical address of the seller is indicated, the website is registered under a proxy, and last but not least confounded it with those ".100 mills" scams on the bay.

All the better if they are good, it's a beauty, and I wouldn't mind owning myself some in that case.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 12:17 | 758715 Scoutster
Scoutster's picture

I'm buying silver bars for Christmas presents this year.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:30 | 758829 velobabe
velobabe's picture

me 2 dochen.i told my sister to buy some silver coin and get JPMorgan in some trouble. wouldn't comment.

emailed her, that i was giving my nephew silver coin for his college graduation this december.  Pronto and out.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:10 | 758078 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Except at Apple stores where frenzy continues.  I do think a good deal of on-line shopping is also happening and not necessarily caught yet.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:11 | 758079 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

I went to Costco yesterday morning. Filled out the pickup paperwork and proceeded to the check out by paying cash for their sale listed computer.

20 minutes later, I was told that they didn't have the computer in stock and was promptly refunded my money. This occurred at 9:00 AM EST. Costco was a ghost town during my transaction period.


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:27 | 758100 MountainHawk
MountainHawk's picture

I have a relative that works at Costco, they said it was pretty dead. Then again, Costco prob. doesn't offer black friday deals like the mall. Probably a better indicator near X-mas.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 05:19 | 758532 The Rock
The Rock's picture

They don't have any BF deals... but if you went to Costco on Wednesday, it was a frickin zoo with all the people doing last minute pre-Thanksgiving shopping...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:12 | 758081 MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

Ah, yes...the consumate shopper...they will go on shoping and charging until they have nothing left to give. The poor bastards, they are so far gone that I no longer feel much pity for them.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:38 | 758118 Cleanclog
Cleanclog's picture

Unless they're "right".  What if more and more debt run up just doesn't get paid off?  It's what millions of Americans are doing with their mortgages and credit cards right now.  Consuming but not paying.  And I don't mean the unemployed.  Many employed people are now simply not paying the mortgage and using that money other ways - saving, or buying ipad.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 04:16 | 758506 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

This is happening indeed and is spreading. Trouble for banks and of course for all of us.

There will be a new wave of defaults of all sorts.

Brace yourselves. 

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 06:45 | 758545 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Mainlining any drug long enough, results in burnout, or can be terminal.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:14 | 758085 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

No.  If you read the actual article you'll see that online sales, though hyped, remain only 8-10% of total sales.  Online is up a lot, but it's a tiny proportion of sales.

It's not going to be a booming Christmas.  It's all lies.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:22 | 758093 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

"It's not going to be a booming Christmas."

Priced in gold Xmas will be excellent. I'm going to buy some eagles for my aunts sisters father, he lives in Covington KY
with his dog Doodle.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:27 | 758103 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'm afraid that goes in the wrong direction.  Priced in gold, Christmas sales this year will be utterly abysmal (though the purchasing power of those of us who own gold is going up--good for us!).  

Also, I don't think your grandfather and his dog appreciate your foolishness.  Obviously all they want is a currency that is being rapidly debased.  In fact, dollars aren't being debased fast enough.  I would suggest you pick up some Zimbabwe dollars if you really want to make him rich.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:59 | 758151 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture


You bought gold at $500-$750/oz. Cash in now get USD's. Go to store, deflationary sales are all over. BUY ITEMS!

Take items and give them to whoever. They say thanks and smile, but secretly hate what you bought and promptly return to store. They get fiat and then call Kitco and BUY ITEMS!

Priced in gold XMAS was excellent, no?


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 02:18 | 758462 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Deflation in terms of gold is always more severe than in terms of fiat during deflationary periods.  I mean, come on, our economy has collapsed, but prices have barely budged as measured by the CPI.  Food is going up, while non-essentials are going down.

You say that gold is going to go back down, but you give no other reason than the handwaving argument of "deflation", when every period of deflation in the past has always exerted an UPWARD pressure on the purchasing price of gold.

Tarzan need present argument, or tmosley SMASH!  Maybe tmosley smash anyway, depending on quality and logical consistency.  Me no know.  Me just unfrozen caveman scientist.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 08:49 | 758578 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Ok, I'll spell it out 4 u. Churn the gold. Spike the volume, spike the price. Churn the gold.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 08:55 | 758579 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

He lives with his dog's "doodle"?


Outstanding revelation!

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:32 | 758837 velobabe
velobabe's picture

as in YANKee?

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:16 | 758086 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

17% unemployment is all you have to know. Online shopping is up to avoid taxation costs. Christmas will be like last year. There is no extra money for most people. 

Consumerism will not help us- only capital injections to industry to create products and thus employment. Production is additive, consumerism is subtractive.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:06 | 758157 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Hey babe, its happenin'.  60 Billion from the Saudi boyz alone.  And those are all combat expendables.  Party like its '99.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:58 | 758354 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Motherfucker, I've seen crackwhores with better marketing skillz than you.

What idiot corporation would be hiring into the second dip of the soon-to-be-called Greatest Depression?

Do you not see them selling 8000:1?!

What's 'additive' about products sitting in warehousing or on shelves?

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:18 | 758375 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Probably one that was capable of selling it's production. There are products being sold in the world. I guess you would prefer more consumerism with less production? That would help a lot. 

Malinvestment will be resolved, but business will go on.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:20 | 758088 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

At some point in the future we will look back on this insanity that hijacked a religion (no matter what your take on god is) in order to feed the oligarchs by using what is now almost 2 months of the year to make you seem "unholy" if you do not partake in consumer psychotic crowd behavoir that is BUY BUY BUY.  

Where's the study on what % of consumer debt is generated during this period?

It was the first week of November this year that local malls started putting up their Christmas mind hypnotizing propaganda.

Don't be that mommy and daddy who didn't stroke the kiddies egos on Christmas morning!

Oh yeah, don't forget that fucking $80K car with a fucking bow on it to surprise her Christmas morning, along with the $20K diamond ring for your wife, otherwise, well, you're just not good enough for her.


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:27 | 758101 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Priced in gold that $80K car is prolly 'round $5k or so. So it looks like you spend a fortune of fiats.

Now run and get you some gold son and she'll be slobbering on the knob till the raindeers come.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:02 | 758154 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

First post I have ever seen where someone named that part of their anatomy "raindeer" ...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:56 | 758205 Duuude
Duuude's picture



Bellysnort !!!




Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:32 | 758109 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yep.  If you don't show up with BLING and the kids aren't TOTALLY ECSTATIC just like the TV commercials, well then...YOU are a FAILURE.

I will buy the car for the guy who tells his wife deadpan, in response to "he's getting HER that car, why don't you get that for me," "maybe if you looked even vaguely as good as she does..."

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 14:01 | 758889 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"maybe if you looked even vaguely as good as she does..."

No sex or hot food for you until New Year... HoHo HO...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:42 | 758125 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If you really want to help your kids' egos, don't buy gifts.  Get 'em jobs. 

(Maybe they'd even be able to move out of the basement again.)

Everyone hurries and stares past me,
Benefits are gone, as you can see.
I don't know just who to blame for this catastrophe,
But my one wish on Xmas Eve is as plain as it can be.

All I want for Xmas is a living wage, a living wage, a living wage,

It's been so long since I could say,
"Save time-off for holiday!"
With weekdays free, oh woe is me,
I wish I was commuting... (vroom vroom)

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:58 | 758211 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Oligarchs, it is thought that Christ was born in the spring.  Mithras is the god whose birth was celebrated on December 25th.  He was born in a cave, of a virgin coincidentally, or a rock, depending on what source you consult and was a favorite of the legions from around the 1st to the 4th centuries.  The winter soltice occurs around that date and was celebrated in many forms by the Celtic, Germanic, Gaulish, Scandinavian and Roman pagans of pre-Christian Europe.  In their wisdom, the good fathers of the early church found it preferable to incorporate and repurpose the pagan festivals of their converts.  Since people will have their parties no matter what the priests say.  Better to celebrate a mass and see that things don't get out of hand.  You can see a more recent incidence of that particular proclivity of the Catholic Church in Mexico's Day of the Dead, which started life as an Aztec festival, celebrated still, in a new incarnation under the auspices of the church.   Christmas is a secular celebration captured by religion for the past 1500 years or so.   

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:32 | 758259 grunk
grunk's picture

Merry Mithras.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:05 | 758292 Jake3463
Jake3463's picture

Everything about the Holiday corresponds to Pagan Mythology.  Down to the damn tree you put in your house.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:05 | 758358 Rick64
Rick64's picture

The evolution of religion will open your eyes. I see it as another red or blue pill scenario.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 01:17 | 758425 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Early churchmen were diplomats who practiced multi-culturalism? Those bastards!



Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:36 | 758842 Rick64
Rick64's picture

I'm not agaist multi-culturalism but I am against religious propaganda.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 06:58 | 758548 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Buy Buy Buy indeed. How much is enough?


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 14:10 | 758908 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Well, Jesus Did Say:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle,
than for a Poor man to enter into the kingdom of God."

"Blessed are the Rich, for they shall inherit the earth."

Book of Supply Side Jesus
Prosperity Gospel

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 14:17 | 758924 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 The eye of the needle was an opening in the walls around a city where a it was very difficult for a camel to get through. In case you weren't aware.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 12:57 | 758759 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Oh, I don't know, getting a Christmas morning "thank you" blow job from the women in those Lexus ads might be worth $80K.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:36 | 758843 velobabe
velobabe's picture

OK, i am running out of Benjamin's F aaaaast.

i give christmas morning "thank yous" for $50K.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 16:23 | 759235 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

80K would buy you a hell of a lot of blow jobs from women that look like that. Ask Elliot Spitser about that one.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:19 | 758089 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


Consumerism will not help us- only capital injections to industry to create products and thus employment. Production is additive, consumerism is subtractive.


You don't understand.  You only have it half right.  

Consumerism will not help us.  Nothing will.  Oil production will not rise and that is the end of growth.  

And that's forever, folks.  With a capital F.  It's all downhill from here.

Mankind's pinnacle achievements are behind us.  Ahead is only death, and not very far ahead.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:35 | 758113 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Like there will be other possible sources of inexpensive energy in the future? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What, do you work for big oil? 

Human ingenuity will outperform oil in no time. 

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:46 | 758124 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture
Of course it will.  Human ingenuity is what put people on the moon in 1969 and the 1970s and since then, in 40 years, never returned.  Not to there.  Not to any other planet.   Human ingenuity brought Columbus to the Americas in 1492, but the first European permanent settlement in North America . . . Jamestown, Virginia -- in 1607.  Over 100 years.   The most powerful rocket in the US inventory is a fraction as powerful as was the Saturn V.   Yes, we'll have a new liquid fuel for our food transport infrastructure in no time at all.    Literally.
Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:18 | 758241's picture

Human ingenuity brought Columbus to the Americas in 1492, but the first European permanent settlement in North America . . . Jamestown, Virginia -- in 1607.  Over 100 years.


Just plain wrong. Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement. Columbus himself established permanent settlements in the Americas in the 15th century.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:58 | 758281 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I guess we'll ignore the industrial revolution, the revolution in electronics and computers, etc. Ingenuity travels in a path of rewards for production. Space has been relegated to an unnecessary industry with little reward. 

As peak oil is realized and energy inputs from oil begin to fail, new energy sources will be developed- from unlikely sources I imagine. 

As the standard of living has generally improved since 1492, I'll go out on a limb and suggest the world is not at an end. In fact, it could improve with the elimination of much our energy wasting technologies, decreasing pollution and improving life in many other ways. 

Get outside the box buddy...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:16 | 758308 trav7777
trav7777's picture

These innovations all USE ENERGY, moron.  They don't generate it.

Shit, dude, you've convinced me...all we've done is find new and cool ways to use MORE energy at a higher rate!

Our expectation of the ability to do this is crashing into production peaks. 

So, please, IMAGINE fusion power so we can all have it, ok?

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:44 | 758343's picture

These innovations all USE ENERGY, moron. They don't generate it.


So you're not aware of any improvements made in the field of energy generation since 1492? What do you do, ride your pony down to your job at the local windmill? Where I come from we use all sorts of newfangled technology to produce energy. But I do miss the ponies. You're a lucky man.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:23 | 758380 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You might want to read my ENTIRE post before you comment. Of course, with all that spare intelligence banging around the ole skull, you probably don't feel the need. 

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 02:28 | 758467 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Don't bother with him.  He's a loser engineer stuck in a dead end job who has convinced himself that the only reason he can't get anywhere is because of some structural defect in the universe.

He's just a Malthusian who demands sacrifice from everyone around him so he can play a zero sum game that ends in death for everyone.  Tell him about next generation solar panels that can be produced with the energy input of a large campfire, and he just ignores it.  Present him with historical parallels to the current situation and he ignores them.  All he wants, knows, needs, or cares about is death.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:17 | 758653 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

TMosley, I disagree with your insight.  I don't think you have enough information to make the statements you have.  For the most part I finds his rants accurate and entertaining.  My insight is he doesn't tolerate fools gladly.

With regards to,  Tell him about next generation solar panels that can be produced with the energy input of a large campfire.  Are they in production?  Can you state who is producing them, were and what volumes of these panels are currently being produced?  What are the specifications of these next generation panels?  What are the current production cost of these panels? (Not paying attention to these kind of details will bite you in the ass every time.)  Who holds the patents on these next generation panels?

The point I am trying to make in asking you these questions is that many of us have been researching this issues for several decades.  Cost effective renewables are not out there yet.....  their are alot of reasons for this.  It is a very complex problem that is not going to be easily solved.  To date the best "non geek" detailed explanation can be found at  blogs following are very enlightening and come from "all points of view".  There are  alot of great ideas but the reality of implementing them have failed to date.  Example the Prius, a marketing success (to the green wannbe's looking to make a statement with more money then sense) but a efficiency and engineering dog (if you are not an engineer you genuinely may not understand why this matters, which may be were the disconnect lies). We have been working on this problem for 40 years now and have very little to show.  Time is running out.  There are no historical parallels to this situation,  this one is on an unprecedented scale.  I cannot speak for Trav however my personal involvement in these issues come from a grave and sincere concern for the well being for my grandchildren and their children, not death, but the continuation of life......  I have had a wonderful life and this problem will come to a crisis after I am gone.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:54 | 758691 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

"Tell him about next generation solar panels that can be produced with the energy input of a large campfire, and he just ignores it. "

Reference, please? I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find this claim to be of note, if it's true. Too many of these claims don't pan out, but if there's something new that I'm not aware of, I'd really like to learn more.

Thank you.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 02:23 | 758465 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I stepped away and y'all went crazy.

As for being outside the box, that box is what keeps you eating -- the evolved methods of transporting food that has lifted population from a 12% growth rate 1600-1700 up to 600% 1900 - 2010.  (exact numbers year 1600 pop 545 million, 1700 610 million)  vs (1900 pop 1 billion, present pop about 6.8 billion).  That happened not because of medicine (cuz the growth was mostly 3rd world where they didn't get good health care until very recently). It happened because oil driven tractors can cultivates farms sized 10's of thousands of acres before planting or harvest season ends.

There are no fusion driven tractors, and you won't get them developed in the 10 yrs that might be all that is left of adequate oil production.  Or if you believe some of the optimists, 30 yrs that is left.

No, it's not the end of the world.  That's silly.  The end of the world is when an asteroid takes out all 7 billion ppl.  No.  Oil depletion will just erase 5.5 Billion.  That's 1.5 billion surviving.  Hard to call that "the end of the world", unless you're one of the 5.5B (which you will be).

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 07:11 | 758550 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Oil depletion will just erase 5.5 Billion.


Imagine the stench.


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 12:14 | 758711 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

One word: Biodiesel. Tractors run on diesel. Further, with the implementation of no-til methods, you cut down on the amount of time needed on a tractor. I'm a farmer. I have structured my farm to produce with a limited amount of time on a tractor. 

As food is sourced locally, transportation becomes less of an issue. People will adjust. This is just one example. 

You make another assumption I find common, but I question: progress. Many people assume the need to progress in all areas. We fail to recognize that we may have gone too far in some areas and not far enough in others. 

A loss of population would put less pressure on resources. Humans make these kind of adjustments naturally- this is one reason why Malthus was wrong. We assume that two car, suburban life styles without mass transportation are tenable. We may be wrong about that, but the loss of it would not portend the end of civilization. Brilliant lit cities and office buildings with no one in them? An extravagance. Trucks versus trains for transportation? The opportunities to reduce energy consumption are legion- it merely requires ingenuity.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:14 | 758304 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes because our minds can conjure energy.

You, my friend, have been watching WAY TOO FUCKING MANY CGI movies where the animations violate the laws of physics.

You idiots suspend your disbelief so much so routinely that you no longer HAVE ANY.  Hell, I saw it in a fuckin movie, right?  So it's GOT to be possible, simply because someone IMAGINED it!

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:09 | 758365 Rick64
Rick64's picture


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 12:16 | 758713 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And to think, this is Trav when he has the Xmas spirit! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:50 | 758133 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Might I suggest you kill yourself, then?

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:13 | 758774 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Look, guy, this is not about flinging Malthus words around and dismissing it all with that name.  And you're 100% mistaken about agenda.  I have no desire WHATSOEVER for you to now scale back your life and sacrifice.  My best suggestion for your well being is to go out and consume just as much gasoline as you want.  Consume more than you want.  It's not going to matter.  You choosing to put on Birkenstocks and recycling your this or that won't matter in the least.  That's all bullshit.  Go ahead and consume.  Every drop of oil you conserve and inconvenience yourself doing just makes China more of a threat.

Only 1.5 billion will survive without oil.  You can own all the gold you want, too, and that won't matter either.  John Deere's revoluntionary plow blade will still be there and not need oil.  Knowledge of crop behavior has increased and much will be done to save more of the crops from insects, despite no oil based insecticide (as it all is).  Fertilizer requires oil for manufacture and transport, but much has been learned about that, too, and we'll do better with crops than was done in 1900.

In fact, we'll do 0.5 billion to 1 billion people better.  That puts the population at 1.5 or 2 billion.  5 - 5.5 billion will die.  It won't be a gentle "population will adjust to reflect the food supply" verbage that presumes 19 yr olds stop having sex.  It will be "5.5 humans starved to death and were tossed in rivers because no one had the strength to dig holes and bury them, thereby destroying the downstream water supply for others".

So, no.  Don't think there's some left wing ultra green agenda in play here.  What's in play is the inevitable -- unless I'm wrong, and I can be.  All it takes is a 200 billion barrel  (oil, not oil equivalents) field of conventional (non shale, non difficult) discovered down only 1000 feet in Kansas or anywhere in the central US.  Not a "giant" field.  Not an "elephant" or "huge" or "enormous" field.  Adjectives are lies.  The numbers must be 200 billion barrels.  

Find me that miracle and we get to survive.  Not unless.  

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:51 | 758864 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Even if your scenario is correct, you have potentially two billion people surviving. How is that an issue of survival? Mass killoff- OK. Extinction event? Hardly. We wouldn't even miss them. 

That would portend a large loss of life in India, China, Africa and Latin America. How does this threaten humanity? The way the elites play, I imagine they are already tabulating the losses and projecting methods and timelines. You're worried about oil?

How about the structure of the governmental systems in place after this result? That should be your concern, for the dead will be gone, but the living will have to endure. That future will dictate your quality of life, your ability to retain private wealth and the amount of freedom you have to use them. 

I can deal with oil, it's tyranny that keeps me awake at night.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 03:42 | 758497 Cursive
Cursive's picture


And that's forever, folks.  With a capital F.  It's all downhill from here.

Mankind's pinnacle achievements are behind us.  Ahead is only death, and not very far ahead.

WOW and my wife thinks I'm a pessimist.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:20 | 758091 MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

Ah, yes...the consumate shopper...they will go on shoping and charging until they have nothing left to give. The poor bastards, they are so far gone that I no longer feel much pity for them.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:25 | 758096 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Last but not least it should also be noted that with millions of Americans living mortgage payment free for over 18 months now, and using money that should be going to banks (and nationalized GSEs) to instead purchase shoe closet 32 inch TVs, that sooner or later the bulk of American taxpayers who funded yet another top line (but certainly not margin) bonanza for the nation's retailers may soon say enough, and vote against further subsidies of zombie companies whose existence allows for continued US consumer "strength."

And sometimes I wonder how the ponzi keeps turnin'.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:26 | 758098 Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

This black Friday wasn’t about consumers buying shit for other people in preparation for Christmas, it was about people what they needed but needed a good fiscal incentive to pull the trigger and use some of the last funds they have squirreled away...

I went to one of the target black Fridays here in California’s bay area and that’s what I saw and was hearing from other people that were in the line that was over ¼ of a mile long that some had stood in for over 12 hours…

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:48 | 758130 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

This Target in Buffalo people were stampeded !

Video of the insanity !

insane !

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:46 | 758195 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Now that picture/video is worth a 1,000,000 words of what this country has become

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 07:13 | 758552 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bah. Back in the 80's people did this kinda shit for Cabbage Patch Dolls.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:26 | 758252 The Axe
The Axe's picture

That is sad...How can people act like buy some crap...  honor the birth of the Lord...  i thought  that was the point of Christmas...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:20 | 758315 Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

yeah, where i was as soon as the doors opened a fist fight broke out...

then as i made my way back towards the electronics section of target, another fist fight broke out over $100 LCD TV's

im curious to see what happens if hyper inflation takes hold and you add food to this equation...

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 07:15 | 758554 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Be careful what you wish for. That said, I'll bring the popcorn and zombie control ordinance.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:08 | 758362 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Dumb bastards...

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:14 | 758369 midtowng
midtowng's picture

That was disturbing. I just don't understand why people do things like that. Why would you even want to go out that day?

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 09:57 | 758602 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I can't fathom what they could be giving away, much less selling, at a Targét that would make a person behave thus.


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:19 | 758377 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Buffalo people are sure Fat, Buffalo People stampede over frivolous things.

As If they are viewing the last grazing land. Bovine mentality on show. 


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 10:37 | 758628 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

too bad there was no pneumatic hammer at the end of that chute. harharhar

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 07:25 | 758555 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Waist size higher than IQ.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:10 | 758648 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

Sad.  I especially liked the guy who crumpled over the counter in pain, but still managed to pull it together so he could pick up the "deals."

I went out last night to the local Target and Walmart out of curiosity.  Around here, at least, there were plenty of things left on the doorbuster displays.  Employees outnumbered shoppers and were milling around and beginning to take down all of the sale signage.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:05 | 758357 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

12-hour line for cheap chinese crap. That's positively Soviet; pathetic.  Did you see any babushkas with rags wrapped around their legs?  People have dignity in small numbers but get them together and they're lemmings.


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:29 | 758106 StockWorldNews
StockWorldNews's picture

If Amazon would have lowered the price on the Sony TX7 I would have

participated in the consumer ritual, remaining safely in my house away from

the stampeding masses.


Must... spend... money...  Must... consume...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:30 | 758107 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

The saddest part is those news clips of people stampeding into stores as the doors open at 6AM, screaming with glee and knocking any elderly slowpokes to the ground. Why? So they can take home a 60-inch flat screen TV and continue their joyless consumerist indoctrination in Hi-def.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 03:58 | 758501 Cursive
Cursive's picture

@Amish Hacker

Why? So they can take home a 60-inch flat screen TV and continue their joyless consumerist indoctrination in Hi-def.

+1080p  Does anyone ever talk to anyone anymore.  Hell, besides my wife, I have to visit ZH and a few other websites just to find someone who can express an intellectual thought.  But a lot of people can tell you who won the Saints/Cowboys game and FOX built a sports bar for the troops overseas.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:27 | 758817 cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

Amen brother. And my wife wonders why I spend so much time on the internet? All anybody talks about here is f---in football, or they got their head stuck in their stupid phone playing games. Whats become of the world?


Oh yeah, the Saints won! ;-)

I only watched the last 5 minutes or so.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 13:44 | 758856 Rick64
Rick64's picture

I can relate to that.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:31 | 758108 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Let MaoObama continue to bleed the public. Next, you will hear him ask for IMF relief. Mark my words!!

Do you see the road plan yet?

Kazakhstan on Road to Recovery, But Banking System Still Weak

Your subsidizing low labor regions thru high regional taxation costs. Banks are the culprits. If you remove your money, banks & high individual taxation contributions will evaporate.  


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:32 | 758110 dumpster
dumpster's picture

shop till you drop..   with 22% unemployment ,,,  6% and higher inflation,,, a .03% increase inb= sales year after year,, not counting yet the refunds after the excitement is over unwrapping presents,

and once again the media spins ,, as Russia china drop dollar  and will trade in own currencies ,

and yet a mad assortment of frenzyed buyers ,, the same crew that bought 800,000 dollar loans  ,, with nothing down,, no payments as they squat in a home ,, using rent money for trivial pursuit


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:04 | 758155 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


GREAT to see you back, gold has done rather well since you ran off Johnny Bravo, LOL.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:40 | 758183 dumpster
dumpster's picture

LOL  johnny bravo and his minions and the whole assorted junk gold crowd.. are soon to be blown to littler pieces of obnoxious fumes,,, \\ 


these mouths need to grab some gold and silver ,,

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:04 | 758218 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Dumpster!  Lookin' good.  Did you have a little lipo on the bag?  Looks good.

I, too, appreciate the scalping you did on ole Johnny Bravo.  He high-tailed it outta here never to return -- we can only hope.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:30 | 758254 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

dumpster, Colonel_Cooper and Rocky blasted him away.  Far away.

Although I kind of miss:

Au to $0.02

Ag to $0.01

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:56 | 758279 dumpster
dumpster's picture

guys good to see the posts ,,


been away doing flim flam work,,  had a few bridges to sell,, and their are plenty of these types to crowd for a special on bridges lol 

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 01:22 | 758427 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Hey Dumpster, welcome back! Good to see ya, Bravo suicided off one of them bridges after Au hit $1400!

Fri, 12/24/2010 - 21:50 | 828976 hardmedicine
hardmedicine's picture

Rocky!!!! Where are you??

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:57 | 758283 tomdub_1024
tomdub_1024's picture

good to see you back!

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:40 | 758121 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

Sales must be really bad.  Isn't ShopperTrak the flunkies paid by the malls to always come out first with the 'Sales are UP UP UP' hype to get everybody excited about shopping?   And their numbers end up with 0 correlation to the numbers at the end of the season?

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:52 | 758135 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Just say NO to the commercial Christmas.  Stop being a lemming.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:58 | 758149 no cnbc cretin
no cnbc cretin's picture


Sun, 11/28/2010 - 10:36 | 758627 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Right on. I haven't Christmas-shopped for about 5 years. I simply fucking hate buying crap that I don't need, which is pretty much everything.

There is an illness, a deeply-ingrained sickness in the human mind these days, the planting of which begun with Ed Bernays way back in the early 1900's. It is now generations in, and has literally converted the majority of people into eating, sleeping, shitting, slaving, shopping zombies. For most, there is no hope of ever waking up, it takes something either traumatic or exceedingly lucid in order to get one to awaken.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 11:38 | 758674 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Bought several dvd copies of "What would Jesus Buy?" and sent it to all the kids...  the church of stop shopping... the end of mankind from consumerism and over consumption  and the fires of eternal debt.....  Will we walk in the valley of shadow debt.....  etc etc.....

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:52 | 758139 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Sales must be really bad.  Isn't ShopperTrak the flunkies paid by the malls to always come out first with the 'Sales are UP UP UP' hype to get everybody excited about shopping?   And their numbers end up with 0 correlation to the numbers at the end of the season?


I do believe you are correct, sir.  That's the same outfit.  This is triply devastating.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:01 | 758150 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Ammunition, bought online.

Supplies and winter preparations bought online.

Everything else except student loans are free and clear, what more do I need?

The only physical expense this holiday season was a oil change for the car and some gasoline. That's it.


If they are getting a Orgasm looking at the amount of money being charged onto my credit card and all the others waving credit at the stores, they don't care that some will be paid off each month.

I will state that standing in line is good practice for those who have not had to do it before or actually dont have any work to cut/miss/play hooky to get to the store.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:56 | 758144 voltaic
voltaic's picture

Friday I tried to spend $29 on an office chair at my across-the-street Staples, but the last one was being hiked to the register at 930am. Missed that little deal and went home. 

For you Star Trek fans Black Friday reminds me of Return of the Archons and their Red Hour where the populace goes crazy wacko for a short period of time and then is put back into a trance of obedience to the human higher powers. 

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:25 | 758250's picture

Come for the festival, eh?

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 00:54 | 758401 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

For you Star Trek fans Black Friday reminds me of Return of the Archons and their Red Hour where the populace goes crazy wacko for a short period of time and then is put back into a trance of obedience to the human higher powers.

2 minutes of hate, baby!

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 20:57 | 758145 no cnbc cretin
no cnbc cretin's picture

Lets base an economy on consumerism. How stupid is that.

Black Friday sucks, and most Americans are stupid.

End of story, end of this country.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:11 | 758146 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Sales aren't that bad. Looking for a new bargain home in FL. Let's review the calamity.

03/01/1998 Sold $209,300 --  $34 Public Record

11/15/2010 Price change * $1,494,999 -12.1%  $247

Slumdog Millionaire

I'll offer $205,000, unless it was remodeled using Chinese drywall. Then, $50,000 is my final offer.



Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:15 | 758162 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Unimproved in 1998 for $209K, dipshit. That's land only. If you were really buying you'd know that.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:33 | 758173 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Are you the owner? Sorry too offend. On Thanksgiving spent 4 hours on computer. Lost two house sales and have pre-approval for lots of money, someone was ahead in the que of demand.

Moral of story, we are buying up properties while others complain. It's a buyers market out there. Take advantage. Just ask your ol' buddy Bernanke.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:06 | 758156's picture

Went shopping with the Missus.


Lots of cars and lots of humans.  Not a lot of purchases though.


Checkouts were a breeze and most shoppers had carts that were quite empty.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 04:11 | 758504 Cursive
Cursive's picture

I think a lot of people participated in Black Friday just to be a part of the season.   Don't have to buy anything to break up the monotony of our so-called lives.I was at the Wal-Mart at midday today (Saturday).  Looked like a Wednesday in April.  Very, very quiet.  All sold out of 357 ammo.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:20 | 758166 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Tyler pokes a hole in that Black Friday sales hype with ye ole GDP deflater...

Unfortunately... stupid fucking Amerikans were still out in superficial force further supporting the Amerikan Society as Lemming Brain-dead-ed-ness Hypothesis...

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:23 | 758168 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Wild shoppers at Wal-Mart





Hordes of people swarming into the Apple store in November 2008, the peak of the credit crisis.


Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:58 | 758207 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

Interesting, that first video looks like the trading pits before the HFT computers took over.   Crowd (animal) behavior is fascinating.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 02:18 | 758461 Got my Towel
Got my Towel's picture

Reminded me of images seen in places where disasters have just struck and the trucks bearing food have finally arrived.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 01:07 | 758416 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I could honestly not imagine giving enough of a shit about a consumer product to endure that type of shopping experience.  If I can't get it shipped to me or walk in and buy it, fuck the damned thing.

Fri, 12/24/2010 - 23:42 | 829127 ExploitTheMarket
ExploitTheMarket's picture

Yep...I do as much shopping as possible online...Can't stand walmart and the others--service sucks, they waste my time, and they always have everything except exactly what I need.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:26 | 758170 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

My casual survey of Manhattan shopping hotspots was underwhelming. 

Retailers were concerned since 2008 that consumers would "learn a new behavior". Last thing they wanted was a consumer who is more thoughtful about necessities and quality and less 'aspirational' and less reckless with credit. But it's happened. The center of gravity has shifted. It's becoming popular to say "I realize I didn't actually need any of this sh*t" 

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 22:31 | 758257 docj
docj's picture

Ditto suburban Boston.  Local papers trying to spin like mad but talk to the people who were actually working there yesterday and they told me to a person it was precisely the word you used, "underwhelming".

Not awful, but nothing approaching great or even good.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:06 | 758293 Jake3463
Jake3463's picture

Which is why the biggest discounted item was large flat screen TVs.  

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 01:53 | 758443 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If you are careful you can get a 32 to 40 inch large screen at your local mission store, pawn shop or thrift shop for around 200 dollars. That happened to us back in 2008 when the crisis was reaching it's peak.

Those that have, cannot keep or afford it.

Those that do not have, but are liquid, cash and mobile can buy and keep it free and clear.

However, those that have nothing, have even less and we need to reach out and help them any way we can. For our own sake.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 23:52 | 758349 Jake3463
Jake3463's picture

Parking lots were more full last weekend than on Black Friday in Allentown, PA.  Also they had a lot of kids dressed up as embarrassing mascots at the big box stores trying to compel them to come into the parking lot.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 10:02 | 758603 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I've been working to reinforce this realization with friends and the fam as much as possible. Being supportive of such 'radical concepts' when they get a glimpse can be more effective than outright proselytising at times, especially with my wife's credizombie in-laws.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:32 | 758171 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

while i refuse to shop in any brick and mortar stores , i do admit to shopping online and not paying my corrupt state its sales tax IT MAKES ME SMILE EVERY TIME and then most likely not paying the bank the outstanding balance come 2011 and IM SURE THAT WILL MAKE ME SMILE AS WELL

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:35 | 758174 Why Not
Why Not's picture

It is humorous that Bloomberg, CNBC, WSJ, et al were pumping the "jump" in Black Friday sales; all for not. Economic salvation of the country is possible if shopping gradually recedes, and the work day increases. Americans do not need the stuff. Half and full marathons can replace shopping and cut healthcare costs dramatically over a five year period.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:37 | 758177 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Visited family over Black Friday. Thanks to Zero Hedge, kept my eyes open. Early morning Ford Ranger rolled down Main St. Big screen tv in back. Inlaws went shopping later; came home with a smaller wide screen tv and stand from Walmart. The 52'' went down to the basement. Second trip made to Walmart to by DMB1 cables (or whatever).Family now has wide screen in every room except kitchen and bathroom. May install one on deck with a hot tub.


Another inlaw came home with them, wide screen tv, no stand, but plans on returning for stand. Has wide screen in every room except bathroom and deck. 

I have done only local, local, local gift shopping for the past three years; have no plan to change.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 01:10 | 758420 trav7777
trav7777's picture

how the fuck could anyone have a use for that many TVs?  Yeah, I got a relatively top of the line plasma in 2005, and that's my ONE television.  If I pop for a Kuro or something, this thing is getting sold; not trying to have the 1000 channels of nothing all over the house.  My kids tell me most of their classmates have a tv in their rooms and stuff, talk about brain rot.  I have the FIOS and I watch about 5 of the channels, seriously.  There ain't shit on except jersey shore garbage

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 14:01 | 758887 velobabe
velobabe's picture

Trav do you know if a brand new small screen something TV, picture tube go out?

i have the sound, thank you very much, but no picture. it had a picture when i hooked it up. i would rather have the picture and no sound.

Sun, 11/28/2010 - 15:42 | 759136 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Comfortable incomes (one from military base, have to mess up drastically to get fired). Other activity is couponing. In-law has three online coupon resources. One small bedroom literrally has junk 3/4's up one wall, like a hoarder, should be on tv. Junk in basement, junk under carport. It's a small wonder no one has called the health dept. It's all there is to do in a small town (or all they seek to do for entertainment, etc.). Sent home one small bag with me of lysol, gladwrap storage containers, toothpaste, toothbrushes, stuff; ;other stuff i refused). I have one 52" tv screen, free in exchange for my child and a friend showing up to move it down three flights of stairs. Free, and it's the only amount I'm ever going to pay for a tv.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:37 | 758178 Why Not
Why Not's picture

b/t/w  ... I am rooting for Sparta, not Athens.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:46 | 758194 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

We're consumers. We are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guy's name on my underwear. Rogaine, Viagra, Olestra.

Sat, 11/27/2010 - 21:57 | 758208 Who is John Galt
Who is John Galt's picture

It's sad isn't it, what we have become?

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