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The Nine Most "Inconvenient" RoboSigning Admissions BofA Would Love To Disappear
As if the fact that the world economy has once again taken a turn for the worse (rising inflation in China, sinking everything in Europe, endless QE in the US) wasn't enough, that pesky problem of robosigning and fraudclosure just refuses to go away. And even though the major banks are doing their best to remove any reference of this problem, which will eventually be the final nail in the coffin sealing the first truly global great depression, from the mainstream media, here is a sampling of some of the choicest admissions by robosigners, which will continue to serve as the basis for thousands of lawsuits (both RICO and otherwise) to come. While we know that BofA's Reps & Warrantees reserve is woefully underfunded (with everyone and their grandmother now seeking to putback RMBS to BofA, anything less than 'infinity' is underfunded), we hope Bank of America has set up a sufficiently large legal expenses reserve. It will need it.
1. 'Just Sign The Documents'
"Do you know specifically what you're authorized to do for MERS?"
"Just sign the documents."
"Do you know specifically what you're authorized to do for City Residential Lending?"
"Just sign the documents."
[...]
"Why did you sign this document indicating that your address was in California if that in fact was not your address?"
"Because my name was on the document."
"So it was presented to you to sign and you signed it."
"Yes."
2. A Vice President At More Than 20 Companies
"In addition to notarizing assignments of mortgage, do you ever sign assignments as a vice president of a company?"
"Yes."
"For which companies have you signed as vice president?"
"I couldn't list all."
"Could you give me some examples?"
"Chase Morgan. Wells Fargo. I'm on pretty much every corporate resolution."
"Would it be accurate to say that there are maybe an excess of 20 companies or banks that you sign as vice president?"
"That would be fair to say."
3. "Just Look For My Name, And Then Sign"
"Do you have any understanding as to what that term means, 'for good and valuable consideration'?"
"I don't usually read the docs when I sign."
"So it's not part of your job to review the document. Your job is just to sign it."
"Just look for my name, and then sign."
4. No Experience Necessary
"What did you study [in the one year of college]?"
"Nothin'. It was just the basic."
"General courses?"
"Yeah."
"Do you have any other additional training or education in banking or finance?"
"No."
"Real estate?"
"No."
"Law?"
"No."
5. Signing 5,000 Documents Per Day At Less Than A Minute Each
"Can you tell me on any given day how many assignments or other documents you sign?"
"Are you looking for a ballpark average?"
"Ballpark. I certainly don't expect you to remember exactly."
"I'd say 5,000."
"Would that be an average day for you?"
"That would be average."
"Would it be fair to say that during your tenure at NTC you've probably signed an excess of 50 or 60 thousand documents?"
"Yes."
"Could be higher than that?"
"Yes."
"With signing so many on any given day, can you estimate for me the amount of time you spend on any given document?"
"Less than a minute."
"When you're presented with a document to sign or notarize, do you take
any steps to verify any of the information contained in the document?"
"Not in the body."
"When you say 'not in the body' are there any other steps that you take?"
"I'm just looking to make sure it's been fully signed."
"Would it be accurate to say that you are presented with a stack of
documents to sign, and your practice is to look at the document, see if
it's been signed, affix your signature to it and then move on to the
next document?"
"Correct."
6. A Disturbing Lack Of Experience
"When you say 'financial' are you referring to matters relating to banking?"
"No. We don't do mortgages in my country. ... I don't have any idea about mortgages when I started here."
7. A Strange Definition Of A Mortgage
"Did you take any steps to verify any of the information contained in this assignment before you signed it?"
"No."
"Do you ever take any steps to verify any of the information in the documents you sign at NTC?"
"No."
[...]
"What is your understanding of what exactly is a mortgage?"
"When somebody goes to buy a house, they take a loan. And then the mortgage is their paying the banks bank."
"Can you tell me what your understanding is of the term 'promissory note'?"
"That's just the note. Like it says the interest rate and stuff like that on it."
8. Management May Have Electronically Signed Documents For One Employee
"Do you play any role in the creation of the documents to which your signature is electronically affixed?"
"No role."
"Do you have any idea what documents or how many documents your signature has been electronically affixed to?"
"No."
"Do you ever review those electronic documents after your signature has been affixed?"
"No."
"So would it be accurate to say that entire process takes place outside of your presence and knowledge?"
"That would be fair."
[...]
"You play no role in the determination as to whether or not you should
be signing the document physically, or whether your electronic signature
should be inserted?"
"No."
"Who makes that decision?"
"That would be someone in management."
"So someone else in management is making a decision as to whether or not
to use your signature to affix it electronically to a document?"
"Yes."
"And you have no role in that process?"
"Correct."
9. Signing More Than 50,000 Documents
"Have you signed assignments or other documents as vice president of any other companies?"
"Yes."
"What companies have you signed as vice president?"
"I don't know."
"You can't recall any?"
"Mm-mm [No]."
"Can you estimate for me the number of different companies that you've signed assignments as vice president?"
"I don't know."
"Can you estimate for me how many assignments or other documents in
total during your tenure at NTC you signed as an officer or a vice
president of a company?"
"I don't know."
"Is it more than 10?"
"Yes."
"More than 500?"
"Yes."
"More than 5,000?"
"Yes."
"More than 20,000?"
"Yes."
"More than 50,000?"
"And out of those 50,000, the only company that you can recall signing
as a vice president or an officer is City Residential Lending?"
"Yes.
Courtesy of Huffington Post
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But remember what the banksters said:
It's the LENDERS fault that THEY 'had to' commit fraud when foreclosing.
And for anyone who did not wade through Matt Taibbi new Rolling Stone piece, please know this:
He interviewed people who contacted the bank to "work out" the loan and were told by the bank to stop making payments. Problem is, the bank would later use the nonpayments to foreclose, although this is exactly the instructions that bank employees gave the borrower. Of course, the root of the fraud was the financial engineering of securitized mortgages; it was doomed to fail.
Just got my letter from BoA yesterday....
They said I do not have legal authority to see "an original copy of the Note," but they sent me instead "a copy of the original Note." I swear, they think we're stupid. My closing was with a different bank, who sold the Note to BoA. I want to know if BoA is the legal owner of the Note, because, if not, I'm paying them a lot of money for nothing. The original closing bank already got paid by BoA. But do I have to pay BoA? Not if they broke the law.
Failure to execute duties legally on your part does not constitute a conditionless debt on my part.
Certified letter, return receipt. Make it a final demand letter and threaten to turn this over to your state's AG and contact the FDIC for potential action for fraud.
Bet you get a response.
I did the "Where's my Note" website form letter thing. I'm sure they have 1,000 lawyers on this and this is their standard response. And I'm also sure 99.9% of recipients will read the letter and say, "Aw, shucks, I don't have 'legal authority' to see my own mortgage note." So they send you your original closing documents, but not the documents that show transfer of the Note from Bank X to BoA. Fishy. Any lawyers around here? Anyone starting a class action suit? I never signed a contract with BoA, only with Weststar (the original note holder).
I'm fairly certain, depending on what state you live in, that any note which you have a financial obligation to service, you have the legal right for a notarized copy of the original.
Of course that was before the United States pissed on the 4th Amendment and said contract law isn't really reflective of private property rights, so you're just going to have to accept the new system where selective application of the law is a power for only those that can afford it.
red handed. good job ZH.
Checck out freeandclearin90.com which has some good info centering on the UCC statutes.
The people at this organization from the level of any college educated manager on up should be charged with fraud andbanned from the business. The executives and senior managers should be in a jail cell somewhere. Just outrageous.
Even (and especially) if you don't have a note with BAC or C or ??, you should write a letter demanding an original copy of your note; in fact, everyone in the United States should write a letter to any bailed-out, extend-and-pretend bank demanding an original copy of your note............even if you rent........even if you're an illegal alien.
"When you say 'financial' are you referring to matters relating to banking?"
"No. We don't do mortgages in my country. ... I don't have any idea about mortgages when I started here."
Well played, BAC.
Wait for it...wait for it...'cause daddy's gettin' a free house...
Hold your breath till daddy gets his free house and see what happens.
While you're waiting you can get tuned into some of the latest thoughts on string theory:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/2009/12/091201_exchanges_fr...
Wait for it daddy, don't let that breath out, hold it...
That Crystal Moore chick looks like some kind of stretched-out Mona Lisa.
i was thinking the exact same thing...MERSa Lisa.
maybe MONSTER LISA....
wow eerily so - and the background too. paging dr. banzai...
I did'nt know Twinkies were around in in Leonardo's time.
LMAO
that comment was hilarious, but i saw the vid and i kinda like her, so maybe we shouldn't go ther.
but this is gettin creepy:
http://www.art-reproductions.net/images/Artists/Leonardo-Da-Vinci/mona-l...
maybe she needs to get an agent
i thought she looked like me in my young ages, with more fat on my face. i swear. you guys are hilarious. but this shit makes me depressed. good thing i got my bro's, to lighten up this room.
pure remorse.
a supersized amerikan mona lisa, with a penchant for snarfling invisible insects from her upper lip...she is our masterpiece
That is an awfully sad indictment of Amerika.
Such possibilities! I'd come there with such shining eyes...year after year the mask slipped.
Then .Crash, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan....
Not in my name sure failed, eh?
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
many a true word...
LOL, if you didn't laugh, you would be crying...
"That Crystal Moore chick looks like some kind of stretched-out Mona Lisa."
LOL. Yeah, but Dhurata is showing some cleavage so the attorneys go easy on her:
Dhurata: "We don't do mortgages in my country."
Attorney David Alan Grier: "Nice breasteses... So what do you do in your country?"
This is just FUBAR.
Fu@#$#d Up Beyond All Reason?
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Fu@#$#d Up Beyond All Recognition...
Ah! Grazzi Boop.
ORI
f u b all repair. too
F'd up Beyond All Recording in this case.
See also:
SNAFU or even better SAMFUTU
wow
Charts
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/99er-charts
Have a nice weekend.
Interesting, and I thought that Mess-o-potamia was located in the Middle East.
Doko is hot!
Robo my sister, can you find a good picture of her and blow it up for our viewing enjoyment--you're good at that
Why are you stealing avatars, asshole?
I agree with you, Orly. Stealing other people's avatar should not be tolerated.
He's just trolling a troll.
He is not honestly impersonating Robo, any more than the Hulk impersonates Johnny Bravo on occasion.
Answer me that, dickweed.
What? Cat got your tongue?
Hey...one other word...
Fuck you.
Talking to you, loser.
Waiting...
you're very tough on the internet aren't you? Why don't you come to Kitco's office on Monday and come and see me in person
sar....off
Orly, what do you think of gold?
You can take your barbarous relic and stick it where the sun don't shine so you assholes can sink together.
How about I meet you in Dealey Plaza on the 22nd so I can kick your ass in front of God and everybody?
You're not even pathetic.
You're a fucking liar.
Well, well, well
I am liar? Yes am a liar, am Jon Nadler after all, at least when it comes to gold am a lier.
And why do you take such strong offense my dear?
Thinking of getting me thrown out? This ain't Marketwatch bitch!
Bitch, is it?
Okay. Maybe this ain't MarketWatch but let's see how fast your shit gets shut down without someone as arbitrare taking sides. How about we just see how many very knowledgable people even answer for you the time of day?
My call is to black-ball the asshole called JonNadler.
Who's with me?
ME! This is ridiculous juvenile shit that needs to stop. I am having a great time reading the responses till I get to this shit head. Regardless of what a lot of people think of Robo, he/she has been here since the dawn of ZH. That alone counts for a lot. This jenny come lately cunt has got to go.
Sorry for the unladylike language.
Look again, that is not Robo.
Orly your 99% in the green. Your in the top 5 for providing insight on ZH but.......... But, this is the fight club & the rules are the rules.
Maybe hes an ass, but hes with us now.
What if you guys met up and you didn't fight , what if you liked him had 8 black & tans and then bingo,bango,bongo ........ Party time !!!
Okay, wrong.
He just stole my avatar and attached to it someone named Hulk. Just proves that you can goad an Indi/Paki into just about anything by talking about his sexuality. Fucking pussy.
It has been taken care of, I hope, by abuse@zerohedge.com . If you see any other avatars being stolen, please inform ZeroHedge.
Seriously, do I care about my photo or RobotTrader's avatar? Not really. What I care about is the possibility of some nefarious stuff going on underground and behind the scenes. ZeroHedge should at least be made aware that someone is using the site for something other than they intended.
No one is "with me" if they steal, even if they think it is "funny," or "just a joke." Thou shalt not steal is the only commandment ever given from God and I won't stand for some "ass" doing it right in front of my face.
It is not funny. It is serious.
"bingo, bango, bongo..?" Boy.
Sounds like you can fuck off, too, Smailes.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaait. I was joking, come on don't black list me, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease. I'm sorry.
You are pissed.
What ?
I just came in late didn't read the running battle ... I was just throwing gas on the fire/ joking.
I did not junk you ..... What color eyes do you have ?
Have you ever heard me use such language? I can...I mean, I was raised around boys. If I am using such language (though not as harsh as another kind lady who is backing me up...), I am dead serious.
It is how it starts. You allow some wise-cracker to run around in the background, who knows- doing stuff to your server, stealing information, who knows how the ass-clown does what he does?
I don't really care. All I know that it is an "illegal" representation in that people will see my photo (which seems to attract a lot of attention...) and assume it is me speaking, when it is obviously not.
Tomorrow, I would like to share some thoughts on the 4X market moving forward for the next three months. What if this guy came out tomorrow and said, "Buy EUR @ 1.4..," which would be totally believable but totally wrong? Well, Orly said that. No, I didn't.
Or RobotTrader said this.
Who is next, Minion, Trav777? Krasting? madhedgefundtrader? Tyler Durden? Where does it stop, this "joke"?
If I have my druthers, it stops right here.
And by the way, inasmuch as I like sex, I certainly do not like talking about it on an open forum, so all of this "bada-boom, bada-bing" stuff is revolting, especially when it concerns some limp-dicked Paki thief mama's-boy who still lives at home. Makes me want to hurl.
Take it seriously, Mr. Smailes. It may seem trivial but when you think about it, it's really not.
So what color are your eyes ? Green ?
:-(
Why? It's more insight, then it would help me take in forex,the entire student teacher thingy ...
I'm a total rookie with that. Some of your shit vooooooom right over my head.
It's late don't worry ...
Well unless your in Chicago drinking all ready ...
you really think I put your avatar in Hulk's profile?
Are you that stupid
I just came out of the
Entire French Government Resigns Ahead Of Ministerial Reshuffle....thread (hulk)....
Oh fuck, is this some funny shit ....
You may have a rolling IP address, little man, but they know which server you come in on. They will find you and you will be eliminated.
This ain't MarketWatch, bitch, but I am not going to allow you to fuck around with my name and reputation.
Be a good boy. Your mommy wants some more porridge. Will you take it to her, please?
How could someone change info, name ,date ?
I tried I could not change mine ?
Prolly something real simple like mousing over your avatar, "Copy Target As..." Then he goes in and changes his avatar on one of three or four accounts and just pretends to be someone else.
It's not like they don't have a record of your doing it, dipstick! Hello?
No worries. I've a feeling he won't be bothering us much longer.
I am not going to allow you to fuck around with my name and reputation."?
then you are JonNadler?
Ms. Orly, I shall remian here
Looks like baby needs it's diaper changed.
What's got your diaper in a twist? So much anger over nothing...
Oh, did you say gold?
Oh, then you should buy ALL of it. As much as you can get your fat fucking fingers on.
Jon? are you the real me?
I want you to cease and desist pretending to be someone else. Why don't you steal my avatar from somewhere off the internet and then pretend you're a 4X trader or a stock trader or someone other than some fat fucking not-even-pathetic loser who has no opinion, no contribution other than the quite original, "Gold, bitches!"
Get a life and stop role-playing in your own circus mind.
Idiot.
Go f yourself you arrogant scum!!
You must be very good friends with Jon to get so offended
Again, this ain't Marketwatch bitch, your arrogance doesn't affect anything here
My outrage has nothing to do with a guy from Kitco named Nadler. I have heard of him and his "work" but couldn't care less.
You, on the other hand, not only take a name that is well-known in financial fora but also steal the avatar of a ZeroHedge participant without his or her permission. You are pretending to be two distinct people when you spread your lies and criticism without adding anything of value whatsoever. Nothing better than a lowly thief you are!
Bring me my avatar on a plate, asshole. I dare you!
There is no respect for you here. It seems you were better off at MarketWatch where, at least in your own mind, you were the smartest guy in the room.
Now piss off.
will the real Jon please stand up?
Orly, you must be mad at me because I encouraged so many people not to buy gold and silver which is their only way of protecting themselves? Yeah I know, that wasn't nice of me
Oh, then, it must have been my mistake.
Please, by all means, buy all the gold in the world. Really, I want you to.
Really.
You're defending Robo? A guy who posts a silver chart only on days when silver goes down?
and says "sell, sell. sell"
Am not going anywhere
I am defending the sanctity of Robo's opinion. It may not be mine and it may not be yours but to hijack his avatar and call it your own is beyond low.
oh. and yes, you are
oh no am not
why are you so upset exactly? The avatar, if it's just that I could change it
Seriously? Why am I upset? Please allow me a minute of your understanding and I will tell you why:
The modern world has allowed us both closeness and anonimity at once. I can speak to you to your room in Mumbai and you can talk to me in my room in Texas. It is an instant thing and brings the world that much closer together. The idea that I would have ever exchanged any ideas with you at all even twenty years ago, when you lived in Bombay, would have been virtually impossible.
So here we are and I have found a place in the blogoshpere where I can feel comfortable and mentally challenged as it regards my favorite thing in the world, trading. I come in and present myself to the world and say, "Look. This is me. How do you think?"
Beyond a pretty picture, I really want to know, "How do you think?" That is why I am here. Many readers here have come to value my input, as it comes from the angle that not many people here on Zerohedge have and that is from the view of the foreign exchange, the greatest market in the world.
So what we find is that while we are all close together- closer than ever thought possible- the idea of individuality has become a secondary consideration. Why is it that you feel it is okay to take from me what is mine just because we are in a public forum? It is the same as if I am at a stadium and someone comes along and rifles through my purse as I am standing there watching.
She had the right, didn't she, to turn over the lipsticks and car keys because we were in a public place? What was she looking for? None of my business. I mean, everything I had was hers and, presumably, vice versa. How can that be right?
While I come here to share ideas, I also demand that who I am and what I say not be brought down for the common public. It is not...I am not public property.
I am me. RobotTrader is who he or she is and, while you may find the opinions disagreeable and perhaps even should be banned from the Internet, you have no right to that persona/avatar at all.
You know the word avatar, don't you? You have no rights to someone else's spirit. It is not yours. How you even think it is okay to do this is confounding and, frankly, disturbing to me.
why you would get upset about a picture is beyong understanding.
But it's the name that upsets you more than the picture I believe and that I find interesting
Robottrader is troll and I have the right to expose him as such
No you don't. You have the right to discuss matters and to make your point but you have no right to pretend to be him to make a point, valid or otherwise.
You have no right to my avatar, either.
The only troll I see here is you.
And, as far as the "name" goes, JonNadler, I suppose you mean? Frankly, I couldn't care less. But, here are some trading ideas for you and you alone:
Early in the week, the gold market is going to turn down and kind of struggle a little bit but early Wednesday morning about 0130 Eastern time, the Bank of Japan is going to announce further measures to ease the currency against the USD, which, in turn is going to make the price of gold jump like mad. Get long calls on gold futures at that time.
You'll make a mint.
:)
RobotTrader has proven to be a clown, a sideshow, a distraction. He's a one note wonder, tits, a heatmap, and wildebeasts. Yawn.
I'm tired of looking at the images he cluters up threads with. I wish Tyler would restrict Robo's image posting to only articles that Robo authors.
That being said, "avatar drowning" is an effective troll dispossal method.
And so what? I'm next? Orly gave four bad 4X picks in a row. We don't like her any more, let's steal her avatar.
It.
Is.
Not.
Yours.
It is mine.
Is that why you have no pic because you're too afraid to show your face?
And you know, if you wish Tyler would restrict Robo's posting ability, then guess what? Say, "Tyler, can we please have Robo refrain from posting here, please?"
"...I'm tired of looking at the images he cluters up threads with..." No shit? then scroll down! Omigod, the genius!
It'll all be academic after next week anyway but I must say that I am shocked that such inane, immature and selfish tactics are performed against a target you don't like- and that they are allowed here on ZeroHedge!
Say hi to your gym teaher for me, okay?
It's yours huh? Did you take the picture? Is it a picture of you? Did you painstakingly create it with 293745235 hours in MSPaint?
I don't think so. Get off your high horse. It's called parody, and plenty of people around here do it, and I haven't seen you complaining about it before. Now go change your damn diaper, and take your screaming match somewhere else, you damn crybaby.
Each of these depositions were in 4 or 5 parts and I actually watched them all in their entirety, one each night for the past 3 days. It was fascinating to hear the lawyer who's asking the questions drill deeper and deeper into the insanity. In Bryan Bly's case, the man clearly understood what he was doing. Regarding Crystal "Mona Lisa" Moore's case, it was just a job. While Dhurata Doko was harder to read because of her accent and her cultural differences, it was still clear she was simply doing as she was told.
Which brings up a very personal question. Just what would you do if your employers asked you? Forge a document? Lie under oath? Cheat a customer? The answer often depends on a few things. How badly do you need your job and do you think you would lose it if you refuse? And from my experience talking with people and studying psychology and social dynamics, your answer often depends upon how high up the corporate ladder you are and how closely you see yourself and your job as one and the same.
Also, how easily you can rationalize your doing so. Notice how the company broke each operation down into it's component pieces so it was an assembly line rather than a legal process. So they can say to themselves "The document checker looked this over so everything is OK.
But the most important factor the average person uses to determine if they would cross the moral or ethical line when asked to do so at work is how many others are doing the same thing. There is much perceived safety in numbers and the herd mentality is much more of a factor in many personal and work situations than we consider or even recognize. To all these people, and obviously they are low level people, what they were doing was no big deal because everyone else was doing it as well. And each was conditioned to do this by working their way up the corporate ladder, first filling out documents, then maybe checking documents, finally just signing documents.
"I'm just following orders." What's the big deal. Everyone else is doing it. Thus we can hide within the herd and are sheltered by the corporate facade. How many corporate crimes have been successfully pulled off because the employee herd was just following orders? How many state crimes work the same way?
It's called the banality of fraud and corruption in modern capitalism.
If Hannah Arendt were a modern financial journalist, she'd definitely write for ZH.
(provided she didn't talk excessively about pickles and potato pancakes)
The modern capitalism you refer to is crony capitalism where select industries are way too tied to the political class of this country. We would also see less debt bubbles followed by the inevitable bust if we weren't such a service based economy.
"ain't nothin' banal about it." We've got "go to green" baby--now let's put some "pig on this lipstick" cuz "big poppy eatin STEAK TONIGHT!"
Hey, congratulations on posting your first real comment on Zerohedge! Express your real opinion more in the future. You get through to a lot more people that way (much better than trying to shove words and labels down their throats).
The social psychology term for it is diffusion of responsibility:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
Note the examples given . . .
The first reference I heard to it was in the Kitty Genovese Murder:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese
Of course, there is also the element of pleasing those in authority which operates even when one's livelihood is not at stake:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Put it all together--including your livelihood, all the more pressing when you must survive on $10-12 per hour--and you get an employee who experiences him/herself as a virtual hostage. For those at the bottom of society, "wage slave" goes beyond mere metaphor.
Which is why I hope the fucking criminals at the top get taken down.
To wit, consider this:
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2010/10/25/how-a-gang-of-predatory-lenders-and-wall-street-bankers-fleeced-america-and-spawned-a-global-crisis.aspx
Click thru strongly recommended (h/t to user dizzifingers for this link.)
++
Damn Bob hell of an article, and indeed grateful for the link.
With sarcasm I chuckle a bit while reading the quote below about Roland Arnall thinking to myself...Yeah a real Robin Hood to the needy, Ugh!
"He cultivated friendships with politicians as well as civil rights advocates and antipoverty crusaders who might be hostile to the unconventional loans his companies sold in minority and working-class neighborhoods. Many people who knew him saw him as a visionary, a humanitarian, a friend to the needy. "Roland was one of the most generous people I have ever met," a former business partner said."
That's just the first few pages of a 384 page book! Great reviews and available at amazon for $17.16!
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Predatory-Lenders-Bankers-America/dp/08050...
I am in no way related to the guy, but it looks worthy of a read to me.
well said, cogdis. you've nailed the rotten core of this entire shitshow. the mark of a society is illuminated in the motivating principles that trickle down to the individual level. what i find fascinating is the sophistication of the con in this go around and how it drew out the worst facets of both individual & collective behavior.
this is why the entire moral argument on banksters vs. deadbeat borrowers is completely moot. there is no elegant resolution to this where 'justice' will be served. if one wishes to take a side, the only question that should be asked is whether one wishes that the land underlying these mort-gages to be ultimately 'owned' by millions of individuals (regardless of their ethical behavior) or consolidated under the control of a few individuals at the top of the pyramid.
pandora's box has already been opened and moral hazard is flying about searching for the points of least resistance.
prose
@ CD
i watched all the videos in their entirety also. i can't subscribe to the "just following orders" scenario. it's not analogous. these people may have been committing a white collar crime that they didn't even know about. they were obviously hired for their specific lack of knowledge about everything. one of them previously worked an assembly line in a factory. crystal attended one year of college and studied "nuthin". bly is just a schlub. the smartest one by far is dhurata, who said she is from albania, and said "we don't have mortgages in my country" and i swear she was holding back a total smirk. these people were totally used. the real issue is why haven't there been any criminal charges filed against the banks? arthur andersen went under because one office shredded documents. this is 5 million times worse. and props to the lawyer asking the questions; he was so calm and focused like a laser.
"Just following orders" doesn't imply you did knew what you were doing wrong, particularly at this level. Nor does it imply you didn't know what you were doing. However I suspect at some point, probably early, they all said to themselves WTF, then shrugged and moved on.
I'm not absolving anyone of blame here. I'm explaining a situation, not deflecting blame at any level. I tried to take the bigger picture view here.
This fiasco might rub against the sensibilities of the observers but one needs to ask this question: Is there any law that requires a person to read a document and understand it before signing it? Wasthat part of their respective job descriptions? If NO, then these folks did no wrong and the condemnation of them is misplaced.
and they may well have "said to themselves WTF, then shrugged and moved on." Why not?
While people are focused on just the signing, if you view the video depositions, the lawyer gets to the heart of the issue, that in this case the signers were making representations that they did read and understand the document or the notary was representing that the document was signed in their presence and so on.
OK. Fair enough.
CD aren't you describing the Nuremburg Defense of ya know "we were just doing what we were told." I don't think that holds. In my opinion people should feel compelled to investigate or prod a little about how their job fits into the big picture of an entire operation.
On another note, watching these people testify I can only think "man, the elites really know how to use sheeple."
I don't know how many times I need to say this. I'm not absolving anyone here but simply describing a situation. And my opinion of what was/is going on and how people rationalize and justify not doing what should be done or taking responsibility for what they did or didn't do.
Please read my comments from the beginning.
Please read my comments from the beginning.
Or, just ignore his comments. Bloviating self-importance is so 90s.
Maybe someone convinced Eric Holder that the black panthers are somehow tied in to this and that's why he refuses to do his job and prosecute.
Eric Holder! Who dat? Ain't been seen roun' these parts since tha 'Naguration.
Dear Mr. Rick,
Thank for your inquiry regarding the Attorney General.
The DOJ can assure you no one by the name of Eric "Empty Suit" Holder is now, nor has ever been employed here at the Department.
Sincerely,
Faceless Bureaucrat
United States Department of Justice
sure a lot of humble pie to be had for all.
It's getting hard to think of America a soverign nation anymore. It's more like a bank that has a military and runs a HMO.
Now you're getting it. What you are experiencing is known as 'disillusionment', or an 'epiphany'.
To maintain this enlightened state you need to be vigilant, or the daily hate-barrage will suck you right back into Wonderland.
Goinfawr same is true on the spiritual work. Vigilance, balance.
Yes, it's called the central banking warfare model. The military is there to make sure the world takes our debt and currency, and HMO is there to make sure people are just healthy enough to participate in the ponzi.
cf Nuremberg
Good post, CD.
"I was only following orders." We will be hearing that a lot in the days and weeks to come.
The other one I'm waiting for is, "If I hadn't done it, somebody else would have."
Question: "Do you know why I pulled you over ?"
Answer: "Because you have chosen to become an amoral tool of fascist aggression."
Outcome: Felony charges.
Although I usually decry the situational ethic, these well fed examples can not claim to be as one Jean Valjean.
Long before we see those who designed this evil (fraudclosure) punished the little ones will be lined up and sacrificed
in order to attempt the appeasement of the mob. CD, I regard you mental prowess to greatly exceed mine and I can trust you with this:
" The love of truth is the spirit of man." I will keep my spirit alive. " I will not obey."
Lmao :-D
It's the lines like this that has me hooked. You never know when it's coming. I love this swamp.
+ to the infinite
This is called 'situational ethics'...they say character is who you are when nobody is looking. I would like to believe that once upon a time the majority of American people had character. As our government led by example of how not to act with character, and, as the media developed to with where access to this information became prevalent, the masses have followed with like behavior. I have learned the hard way that living by a moral code and obeying the law allows others to shit on you...what was that biblical quote that Samuel L. used to recite before he wasted someone in 'Pulp Fiction'?
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee!"
Yeah, Pulp Fiction. We get it. Only you are the weak. The whole restaurant scene lines carry much more force... 'cause I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.
CD, I cam curious how you arrived at this conclusion "In Bryan Bly's case, the man clearly understood what he was doing." I have worked in a technical field working on projects requiring different disciplines and years of work to finish a project. You can quickly spot the dopes that have no idea what is going on. But, it takes weeks and sometimes months of detailed dicussions with individuals and in groups to determine when certain people have memorized terminology and behaviors and present canned responses that they use comfortably before you can determine that they in fact are clueless, but they put on damn good show. What is it about Bly's responses that leads to think that he actually understands what he is doing?
In the most simplest of terms I feel he knew what he was doing. Not that he understand the entire fraud, but that he understand what he personally was doing was wrong. Of the three I felt he was most aware of the trouble he's in, which implies (and that's all I can base my opinion upon) that he understands what he has done. I base my opinion also in how they phrased their answers.
Moore answered for the most part off the top of her head. Bly seemed to have thought about what he was going to be asked and how he would answer in advance. Maybe this is what I'm seeing, his preparation. But I didn't see Bly as being a clueless as Moore. The third person I couldn't read at all and I said so.
This is simply my opinion based upon a very narrow slice of pie offered by the video. Regardless, the focus of my comment was to draw a bigger picture here, not to single out these people. I was using the situation to extrapolate out to a comment on society in general.
Jeez, kid, why deprecate your intuition by relegating it to the status of mere 'opinion'?
You can tell he's a lying cunt by the way his eyes move. PrettyDamnSimple.
luv
K
CD - not criticizing your opinion, just curious as to how you read these people, what you are watching for, any common tells you might see indicating to you they are lying, acting dumb, or trying to act smart. They are responsible for what they did. No excuses, not even stupidity. You have to ask questions, understand what you are doing, why you are doing it, and is it legal for you to do it. I'll watch Bly again, but I think the first woman is just playing dumb as an excuse and in fact me be smarter than Bly, smart emough to play a dumb victim.
Good call Money Squid.
I would in fact claim that all of them knew to some level or another that what they were doing was wrong. I have been to many countries and know of none where blindly signing your name to legal documents is considered to be anything but wrong.
I simply can not buy into the "poor stupid me" defense. Besides, it is clear that when it comes to the law, ignorance is no excuse. Any good judge will tell you this. The secretaries at the death camps knew what was going on there too....
Look up Stanley Milgram on wikipedia. This road has already been posted.
Better yet, watch the film of the Stanley Milgram experiments on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C5Y8xG1l6A
This was brought up in CNBC's story about Enron. Just plain creepy.
You are really onto the zeitgeist that plagues this beat down Country.
I have left jobs because of these types of issues and I have a lot less wealth to show for it.
I don't mind, as I get to feel OK every time I glimpse in the mirror.
As I get older I can see how a man, after enough of this kind of torture, could end up naked in the streets howling like a madman.
Thus spoke Zarathustra
Thanatos you have kept your honor. Others accolades matter little.
Thus "spake" Zarathustra.
No, not really.
He spoke.
The person that spake was some dipstick medieval transcriber
Fraud is the cornerstone of American business. I know a lot of people in the in-house software dev business and virtually all of us at some point have been asked to commit or enable fraud. They'll come right out and ask for it without batting an eye.
I'm guessing that fraud is pretty damn common in most parts of modern society.
Just what would you do if your employers asked you?
heywoodyajust blow me?
Not only did I say no, I reported it to the federal agents (not the FBI). They did nothing. About six months later the FBI raided the place with 30 agents. If its wrong, its wrong, just move on to another place and move on before the raid so your reputation is not damaged.
i think the real question is "what would you do"?
yeah. "i'm just following orders". I never did that, and am poor enough to prove it.
Last year I saw this belligerent asshole putting wheelclamps on cars at a supermarket carpark. the signage was inadequate. When he parked his truck on the double-yellow line, I took a picture. He went off his nut and I reminded him that anyone could file an information. Then I got a tirade about how he "was just doing my job". I told him he was a marked man. then he called the cops, claimed I'd threatened him and his family. I laughed.
Two plainclothes guys turned up, asked what transpired. I told them exactly what had transpired. They said I was using threatening language, and i replied , 'Where is the threat?' They didn't understand. So I explained what is required as part of a threat; a condition, and a stated course of action which the speaker intends to carry out if the condition is not met. I then quoted Genesis 4 :10-15 and reminded them that far from being a threat, the statement I made was indicative of how the man had God's protection, as a curse. The senior of the two looked puzzled and asked me what the hell a curse has to do with this...and i reminded him that cain was marked so that no one would kill him, so that he would wander around doing shitty jobs..and it was evident that someone who could only get work as a parking warden was cursed.
The couldn't contain their laughter, apologised to me for wasting my time with the excuse that "we're just doing our job." Then they bitched out the wheelclamp guy for wasting police time.
I guess SundaySchool wasn't such a waste after all...
If I were to follow orders, like my other brown-nosing coworkers, then I would still have a job today. Speaking up for what you feel is right or wrong (if it goes against what your boss says) will only leave you without a job. I do not blame anyone, in these economic times, for simply doing what they are told.
I don't blame them... I write their name down and get a picture of them to put next to it...
You of all people should recognize BofA (etal) have "freed themselves from fear" CD ... fear of prosecution and real punishment that is ... or even of an informal meeting with a very pissed-off crowbar.
These people are doing what any pack animal does when they see a 'prey' that is unresponsive, not acting 'normally', such as not demonstrating aggressive vigor and confidence, or neither defending itself or making a strategic retreat, but just stands there exposed (neither of which are fear-responses, just necessary at times).
Until you make them scared, to the extent of trying desperately to hide who and where they are, and what they do or did, they will continue the amplifying predatory attacks on the non-reacting global-chump, who is literally letting them get away with it. Not responding normally and rationally to the attacks.
When I say scared I mean quite literally terrified of protracted physical agony and tissue loss, not mere court appearances. I mean years of partial physical recuperation, if they happen to survive at all the trauma and burns.
I'm not interested in moral balance, just what's necessary to force them to stop, because 'The Law’, such as it isn't, is definitely not going to do it, or they would have already.
When they KNOW the score they will instantly stop and run for their skin.
Would you physically try to take on a passenger jet full of people with a box-cutter, when you KNOW with 100% certainty that any attempt to do so means you will immediately be physically challenged and group-mobbed, and quite possibly killed?
When is the last time you heard of ANYONE hijacking a Western passenger jet? It doesn't happen anymore, because everyone KNOWS what will happen.
Now the 'passengers' in the US and Global economy need to do the same to the TBTFs because if you do nothing you all get wiped-out anyway
A moment of truth has arrived. BofA and all the other TBTFs are waving their pathetic little box-cutters (fraud-legal contracts) and have taken over the controls of the US political economy.
So, "free yourself from the fear", of being falsely condemned by the TBTF media-mouth-pieces, or punished by the 'rule-of-Law' contrivance they have created to try to stop you responding quite NORMALLY to an immediate existential threat, for which there are no orderly credible legal or state security avenues to deal with these vile fuckers.
DO IT, and you'll see how fast everyone else joins in the mobbing the TBTF box-cutter scumbags, making them and their degenerate Kinfolk far too afraid to ever do it again.
Here is a moment of precedent, an opportunity, that can end it, and re-establish from where all power flows.
I just spoke last night to a friend of mine on this subject. Her mom, a sitting judge in Puerto Rico, owns several homes. She is trying to sell one of the homes. Problem, the bank she had been making mortgage payments to doesn't have the note. Upon further research, the mortgage was re-assigned thru MERS nad has gone thru 4 different banks. None of the banks have the note and the current mortgage holding bank had not credited any of the payments made to the first bank for the last 8 months. According to the current bank, she is in default of the mortgage because they have not received any payments, even though she has the cancelled checks from her original bank proving she made the payments. She has given the original bank 45 days to produce the original note and (influence is a sonofabitch) already has several of the top lawyers in the island salivating over this one. If they fail to produce the note, they intend to go to a judge and demand the mortgage be made invalid and to assign the note to her. She has now asked the banks to produce the notes on 2 other properties she still has a mortgage on.
This is going to be fun. Puerto Rico is part of the US, so any court decisions made there can influence decisions in other states. With a bit of luck (and trust me, she is one of the top judges in the island. She has the governor's personal cell number) this will be found in her favor and the bank will loose the house. Lets set some precedents here!
Keep us updated if you would be so kind.
Thank goodness history does not have a rewind button.
But the American legal system, especially with "Plea Bargain" (ladies and gents, I'd suggest a brush up on Admiralty Law, practiced in a courthouse near you, learn the meaning of their words, capitalizations, lines to cross...)
Plea bargain, a get out of jail free card for the rich.
Even testimony as damning as this might end in the recycle bin of history, Mona Lisa lost in her 15 minutes of fame.
Solzhenitsyn said some amazing things about the fate of a Nation of Laws Alone.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Devastating stuff, TD, just dynamite. (I think the penultimate Q&A is missing the A, however.)
So is it wrong to assume that BofA can just file the Countrywide subsidiary anytime it wants and walk away from this fiasco? Thought I read something to that effect on Bloomberg....post acquisition the servicing and origination functions were legally separated so as to ring-fence any Countrywide.
So is it wrong to assume that BofA can just file the Countrywide subsidiary anytime it wants and walk away from this fiasco? Thought I read something to that effect on Bloomberg....post acquisition the servicing and origination functions were legally separated so as to ring-fence any Countrywide.
I doubt it; otherwise, the original purchase would constitute fraudulent conveyance. You can't just buy the parts of something you like.
JPM did when it 'bought' Bear Stearns.
All very damning...here's hoping the idiots (who apparently don't even know the purpose or meaning of the assignments they were signing) cut some good deals for themselves (lest they go down for notary fraud as well).
Mr VP stated that he sometimes signed 5000 documents per day. That is 500 documents per hour, every hour, based on a ten hour day. 500 documents per hour equates to one document every 8.3 seconds, and that is not including breaks for food, etc.
When is someone going to jail for this?
Has Mr. VP ever gone out on disability for his carpal tunnel syndrome?
HB, as I said above, as well, perhaps someone convinced Eric Holder that the black panthers are involved in all this and keeping with his established pattern, he won't do anything to prosecute.
Call up a picture of Holder and a picture of Oprah's old boyfriend. It's the same guy!!
What's not to like about NTC? They are providing a valuable service.
"Nationwide Title Clearing, Inc. partners with mortgage industry lenders, servicers and investors by strategically building custom processes to meet any budget and service level. We lend our expertise in back office document processes to give our clients the advantage of focusing on their core competencies.
Our service offering has continually grown to meet the needs of the mortgage industry and our clients."
http://www.nwtc.com/
"custom processes" indeed.
NTC is also providing a valuable service by employing unskilled labor.
Hey! If the banks can employ "financial innovations", why can't NTC employ "legal innovations"?!
Thailand Gives Finger To Dollar
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, fearful of the effects of the soaring baht due to massive capital inflows, has proposed the use of the Chinese yuan as a major regional trading currency.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/206142/abhisit-calls-on-asia-to-us...
So that makes Brazil, Turkey, Russia and Thailand that no longer use the dollar for trade between themselves....When can I buy oil in Euros??!!
I would say these are the most important bits of news reported on ZH for a while.
Not even seen them mentioned in the MSM.....