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Must Watch Kyle Bass Interview: "I Don't Know How I Can Be Long Stocks"

Tyler Durden's picture





 

The one must watch interview of the week (if not of the year) features Hayman Capital's Kyle Bass. Bass, who correctly called the subprime implosion (and profited handsomely from it) as a iconoclast contrarian to conventional wisdom, tells David Faber that "given my outlook on the world, I don't know how I can be long stocks." Frequent readers of Zero Hedge will notice many comparable themes touched upon in Bass' interview with issues covered on Zero Hedge: the inevitable restructuring of untenable sovereign debt, the nearly $5 trillion in new global debt that needs to be issued just to plug near-term deficits, the joke that was the European stress test and the ongoing insolvency of the European banking system which is times bigger than its US equivalent, the imminent downward revision of Q2 GDP to sub 1%, the Fed's conflicted position as a political authority whose sole purpose now is not to keep inflation and unemployment low, but merely to keep interest rates as low as possible, as even the slightest shift to higher short-end rates will be seen as a black swan, indicative the Fed is losing control over the economy, and ultimately the futility of Keynesian theory band-aiding of a world caught in a toxic debt death spiral. In short, Bass sees no way the world can get out of its current state absent a huge reset. We agree completely, and needless to say, we are confident Bass will be proven 100% correct, to the chagrin of all the permabullish lemmings who day after day refuse to accept the unpleasant reality. The only caveat: when Bass is eventually proven right, all bets on profiting from this realistic worldview will be off, as the existing financial system will no longer exist.

Part 1

Part 2

 


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Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:27 | Link to Comment taraxias
taraxias's picture

We need a Leo vs. Kyle debate. Now THAT would be something......PMSL

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:31 | Link to Comment Alexandre Stavisky
Alexandre Stavisky's picture

Global contraction due to debt saturation mandates long-term contraction.  Demographic change will pressure pensions and insurance.  Since contraction suggests losses on principal instead of actuarial expected growth, capital will decline in purchasing value.  Business model for finance, insurance, real estate, gov't will be long term decline....unless revolution (the abrubt repricing of liberty which is the inevitable outcome of all these events) change the structure of society.  Don't fear financial restructuring (an absolute must) so much as coup d'etat restructure.  Some say we've already passed through its first stage.

Organic investment of savings in equities and bonds will eventually terminate.  Hedge funds and prime movers have too much of a view of small traders actions.  They are plucking them in a rigged game.  No fundamentals back investment moves any more.  For instance, why now, when the supply of US treasuries is at an unbelievable high, and indeed, exceeds all the surpluses of creditor nations and their constituencies, are bonds pricing at lowest yield in a half generation?

Stealth money printing and central global bank collusion.  Purchasing power is evaporating.  TPTB will try to mask the effect by preserving nominal figures on promised entitlements but they can only do so by dilution. 

As expressed before, the global reserve currency has exceeded all possibilities within its parameters of the time continuum and all the resource and labour inputs.  It has moved from an asset backed collateralized instrument (past works), to a debt backed claim upon futurative tax receipts garnered from production (present and future), to exceeding in interest demands the carrying capacity of the globe's population.  Henceforth its debt issuance is merely open printing obscured by promissory notes and IOUs with no potential of ever being repaid.

All of the former 20 years' trappings of wealth shall become an albatross upon every marriner's neck.  Bondage will be any consumptive possession as its will spawn class warfare and varying degrees of state confiscation to feed the usury monster.

Someone invoked a powerful milieu who worships some demon.  It has been conjectured that perhaps this is the ancient Molech, an ammonite deity.  If so, usury would be the superlative means by which to sacrifice one's children, casting their future claim on any abundance of life upon an altar for fiery consumption.  It will exterminate them root and stock.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:12 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Alexandre,

You nailed it...demographics. Easily ignored short term....unless you are near the time period when the demographic shift is occurring...which we seem to be.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:48 | Link to Comment cat2
cat2's picture

Weren't bond holders wiped out in the Great Depression?

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 02:17 | Link to Comment ED
ED's picture

Could somebody flesh out what Kyle was about the say at the end of the first part when he said this is a secular change?

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 08:38 | Link to Comment DavidC
DavidC's picture

ED,
A simplistic reply, but basically we've had a 50 to 60 year bull market with concomitant growth of credit (and, thus, debt). In the cycle it's been growth. We're now entering the part of the (grand? Super?) cycle where this debt is going to paid down and we'll be in a state of contraction.

Ben, Timmy et al either don't see it, don't acknowledge it or are trying to stop it.

King Canute (Cnut), apparently, when he supposedly tried to hold the waves back, was NOT trying to show that he COULD, he was trying to show his (fawning) courtiers that he COULDN'T and there were powers greater than he, the King.

DavidC

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 13:39 | Link to Comment sureseam
sureseam's picture

Good points well made.

Mostly when folk refer to Canute on the web, they are 180 degrees wrong.  So it is a delight to encounter someone who gets what the wise man was about - thank you.

Bernanke and Geithner are tinkering at the edges but have less chance of stopping the oncoming depression than they do of stopping the next hurricance rolling over Gulf of Mexico.

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 14:24 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

hey, im finally am seeing and getting how wise teacher's, teach. thanks, davidC.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:55 | Link to Comment G. Marx
G. Marx's picture

 

+++

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:43 | Link to Comment illyia
illyia's picture

Again, this can be simplified, albeit with ugly rigor:

First we eat our children

Then we eat each other

Then we eat ourselves

...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:24 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

well, damn it you can dream, can't you. set your sights on something, doesn't really matter in your mind. sorry, i stole your coin collection.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Good morning Kathy, nope, coin collection still here...must've hit the wrong house.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:09 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

i guess i went to bed tooooo early late night. well, i am a morning person anyway bitchez.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 01:55 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

That was the spookiest ten minutes of doom that I've ever watched (and thanks for the easy math problem!)

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:27 | Link to Comment jpk
jpk's picture

Agree, thanks for posting that video.  It was fantastic.  Kyle Bass is my new hero.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:59 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

We need a Leo vs. Kyle debate. Now THAT would be something......

There simply would not and could not be any such debate, as Mr. Bass would wipe the floor with Leo within the first two minutes, as Leo invariably resorted to his usual methods and fell back on the only tactics the fervent, desperate and intellectually bankrupt establishment defender can fall back on: bluster, obfuscation, appeals to authority and ad hominen attacks.  We've seen it all endlessly already. 

For those pathetically blinkered and morally withered souls such as Leo, whose minds are closed and whose thoughts cannot escape the narrow limits set for them by the power elite, no amount of evidence or argument, no matter how compelling, is going to sway them from their hysterical support for the political and financial status-quo from which they derive their livelihoods, their values and their very self-identities.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

So sad to see someone obsess so much over me.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:45 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

"Leo", if you honestly believe that I give you any more thought than the minimum necessary to respond to your sad and amoral pro-establishment blather and kneejerk defenses of systemic financial corruption, then you are even more egotistical and deluded than I gave you credit for.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:18 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

haha - yes i agree with all this EXCEPT that China Solars will stay strong and provide modest gains amist the chaos..  lol

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:23 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

"Buy the dip Leo" you brought this on yourself.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:23 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

"Buy the dip Leo" you brought this on yourself.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:34 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

"Buy the dip Leo"

bet she is pretty cheap this time of night, oh i mean her P/E.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:14 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

Thank you. Third time is the charm. Needed the laugh

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 07:17 | Link to Comment BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

"Buy the dip Leo."  Leo is purchasing himself?

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 20:31 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

What is the current market value for "Leo the dip"?

I'm guessing that is one market that has NEVER seen a bubble!

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 21:24 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

takes one to know one.

but leo the dip, it started out, buy the dip.

oh the dip market, H U G E , not sure if much value.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 23:53 | Link to Comment BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

So... you wanna see the wings of a butterfly being pulled off?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:26 | Link to Comment perchprism
perchprism's picture

Jubilee, bitchez!!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:28 | Link to Comment william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Israel has 3 days to hit Iran nuke site. That's good news. I'll buy some too.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Pamela Anderson
Pamela Anderson's picture

Kyle Bass, Meredith Whitney, John "Mr. FX" Taylor, Daniel Niles..... what a group of hot souls!!!!

Talking business.... I hope AUD/USD goes back to $92-$93 range to short the shit again out of this friend

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:34 | Link to Comment SayTabserb
SayTabserb's picture

Ty,

 

Day after day, nobody says it better.  Keep punching.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Not bad CNBC, not bad.  It's nice when someone has the time to explain and defend their position in an interview.  Beats the pants off those ridiculous hydra-boxes.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:46 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

It's nice when someone has the time to explain and defend their position in an interview.  Beats the pants off those ridiculous hydra-boxes.

Where's a Herakles when you really need one?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Übermensch
Übermensch's picture

We don't have free markets anymore; only manipulations.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Segestan
Segestan's picture

Nice insight.. but clearly the topic was scripted. The dollar crowd controlling the news in a positive dollar spin. the commentator is a Moron-prick.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:23 | Link to Comment GreenTrader
GreenTrader's picture

Oh, please.  Scripted my ass.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:57 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

+ 10

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:58 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

The discussion points are scripted, of course. Bass' comment about not being able to find a reason to go long equities was not scripted.

Immelt call to Faber after the show: " What da fux a mattah wit you...?? I thought I told you no more bears. This guy's worse than that Whitney chick."

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Segestan
Segestan's picture

I believe that. Not saying the quest wasn't honest.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:32 | Link to Comment Dburn
Dburn's picture

+1 for the

 

"

What da fux a mattah wit you...?? I thought I told you no more bears. This guy's worse than that Whitney chick.">

 

I think one key moment is when he asked if they had loaded the Charts that he had sent them and there was nothing but crickets.

 

Not that he needed them, but for the word challenged, pictures are always useful. If MSFT spun off PowerPoint software as a Company  and held on to enough of it to put it's earnings on it's financials, they would be considered a growth company again.

 

Yes MSFT's main earnings were , well terrific as usual but the reason the stock is up 47% is PowerPoint Inc's top of the line came in 131% over expectations." "Yeah but Charlie were talking 281 Million dollars here."

"Yeah, so? They're back!"

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:39 | Link to Comment GoldmanSux
GoldmanSux's picture

"When you kick your problems down the road, how many times have they gotten better?"

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:42 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

+100

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Windemup
Windemup's picture

Sometimes, if I ignore my problems, they go away.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Cojones
Cojones's picture

Like when you piss your pants and it's a nice wam day?

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 06:36 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

LOL.  I was thinking wet fart on a long car ride.

"That's gonna itch when it dries."

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 23:05 | Link to Comment barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

yeah in real life sometimes this can work...the analogy is not as great people make it out to be. sometimes avoiding problems, ignoring problems works just great. lol.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:42 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

As they say, truth goes through stages. We are now in the final stage. To quote Arthur Schopenhauer 

"First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:00 | Link to Comment septicshock
septicshock's picture

Excellent quote, i have heard this a thousand times... and each time... it is proven correct.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:39 | Link to Comment LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

"First, they laugh at you, then they ignore you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Gandhi

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:22 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

"Death solves all problems - no man, no problem."  -- Stalin

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

"One death is a tragedy, but a million deaths are a statistic." -- Josef Stalin

 

He sure was an expert on that particular subject.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:03 | Link to Comment stollcri
stollcri's picture

Maybe he was, but putting words in his mouth doesn't prove your point.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Misattributed

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 23:08 | Link to Comment Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Hat tip for the corection.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:01 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Bass goes full-bear on CNBC during first POMO in ages.  Nice.

Faber was over acting.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 01:59 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

Indeed, Faber was forcing out a lot of really stupid questions.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:17 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Funny!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:44 | Link to Comment william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Bass calls for restructuring but my bet is Bernie's planning to monetize all that GSE crap. A 100 year flood's a comin either way. Ammo and tents bitchez.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Tenma13
Tenma13's picture

ROFL :)

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:45 | Link to Comment chirobliss
chirobliss's picture

Wow! A well reasoned argument discussed in a calm manner.  I don't think I've seen this on American TV in 20 years.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

I think I'm just going to amass as much debt as I can get my hands on and enjoy the ride until it all comes crashing down around us.  Why live within our means now when it won't matter very soon?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Crummy
Crummy's picture

That's a bit like jumping in the pot just before it starts to boil...

 

Filling your pockets with steaks during a full moon...

 

Moving to NY in preparation for the Zombie Apocalypse.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

A billion people are already ahead of you.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:18 | Link to Comment Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Exactly, so why not try to catch-up.  It won't matter who owes what when the house of cards comes crashing down.  No debt will be paid back.  It will be impossible for creditors to collect.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:25 | Link to Comment Tenma13
Tenma13's picture

nice avatar FTP player I see. :) 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:56 | Link to Comment Joeman34
Joeman34's picture

Right!  I've had this avatar for a long time now and you're the first to recognize it.  As far as FTP goes... and people think the stock market is rigged...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 07:11 | Link to Comment Tenma13
Tenma13's picture

Got to say that I've paid my way through my post grad course with my winnings from FTP and Stars, so its been good to me. If your interested/ take the game seriously it would be well worth checking out cardrunners.com for training videos and coaches. 

 

 Also, get tracking software, Poker Tracker 3 and Holdem/Omaha Manager are the best two. If your not using these your bleeding money. :) 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I am debt free so as a matter of principle I can't join those who I blame. I am leaning more towards refusing to pay taxes. Why should I pay to bail out others who purchased things that they couldn't afford, when I wanted those same things but only bought what I could pay for? My resentment grows every single day as I watch the nonsense.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:08 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

You'll be a Lucky Guesst over at the Federal Pen with that plan.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:25 | Link to Comment Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

You mean unlucky guest? Charlie Rangel's lucky ass will still be in Congress even though I can't make enough money in this economy to cheat my taxes a fraction of what he has. AND HE VOTED FOR THE TAXES!!!! What a jerk, him and the rest of them.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:39 | Link to Comment Rebel
Rebel's picture

Lucky . . . I agree with you on debt, I have been debt free for the last 10 years, and would never consider borrowing. I don't want to try and game the system. You never know for sure how things unfold, so if the system is corrupt, I will just try as much as possible to not be ensnared by it.

On taxes . . . please be careful toying with that idea. They will be looking to make examples of people is such a thing gets started. When the printing presses are rolling, you can afford to hire as many IRS agents as you feel like. 

I suggest a strategy of just paying your taxes, keeping your head down, trying to stay off everyone's radar screen, and wait for the emergence of whatever comes next.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 23:59 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

boy that's damn good soap right there.

sometimes it takes a rebel to make a village.  

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 06:52 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Rebel,

I tend to agree with you completely.  Congratulations on the debt free thing, BTW.  I am not out yet, but working on it, and will never borrow another dime again.

Right this second is a bad time to start screwing with the taxman.  The Gov. wants nothing more than to start making extreme examples of those who would disobey.  Bide your time. 

I really think that the country is collectively starting to wake up a little bit.  For the first time in a long time I'm starting to feel hopeful that there's a chance we could make this right.  (after it all goes horribly wrong)  But getting ourselves thrown in jail one at a time, taking a beatdown day in and day out, WILL NOT WORK.

There is little or nothing left to save.  All we can worry about is rebuilding.  Take your solace in the power YOU CHOOSE not to wield.  Our time is coming.  Alone you are a lunatic.  Together we are a revolution and a rebuilding. 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:56 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You'll be a Lucky Guesst over at the Federal Pen with that plan.

Not if 10 or 20 million Americans with backbones decide to join her in that action.  Show me the Fed pen big enough to hold them all!

I used to wonder as a child, reading and watching movies about the Nazi Holocaust, why the meek and docile prisoners coming off the cattle cars did not simply rise up and overpower the handful of guards holding them at bay.  Sure, the guards had guns, and sure, some of the prisoners were going to die if they tried it, but ALL of them were going to die if they did not!  It only happened once ---- at Sobibor ---- and in the end many of them died trying to escape, but a greater number did in fact escape and achieve their freedom.

Face it: the rulers and sociopaths always count on their victims to obey, and are terrified of them rising up in revolt.  But 99% of the time, the prisoners (we) do obey, and willingly step from the cattle car into the gas chamber.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:03 | Link to Comment -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

The same reason only one group of passengers fought back on 9/11: they didn't know what was going to happen.  They couldn't imagine the consequences of not fighting because that amount of evil was beyond their ken.

Knowledge is power.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:14 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Did you talk to a passenger who fought back? Did you talk to someone who talked to a person who talked to a passenger who fought back? Did you hear someone tell you that a cell phone caller from jet altitude could tell anyone about passengers fighting back? I think you have heard a fantasy designed to warm the cockles of your heart. Knowledge can be power but is not so useful without wisdom.    

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:33 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

So, "Let's Roll" is fiction?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Most of the "official conspiracy theory" (and it's most certainly a conspiracy theory, an outrageously bad theory with little to no proof offered) regarding 9/11 is fiction. But since we are good conditioned rats, we won't speak out of turn or disbelieve our glorious leadership.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people express great distrust if not out right anger with the level and pace of official lies that have come out of Washington DC for decades and yet they seem to accept pretty much the entire official conspiracy theory about 9/11 hook line and sinker.

Oh wait a minute. I see what's going on. People know the government is lying about who screwed up and allowed those bad terrorists complete and unfettered access to NY City and Washington DC for nearly 90 minutes. How in NYC two planes managed to completely destroy three buildings, one of them a 47 story building which was never even hit by a plane. 

So that makes it so much easier to accept the basic "facts" about the story since we know they are covering up their lies about who didn't do what when. So we believe they lied about who screwed up but we totally believe everything else. Time to do a little research folks.

Mary Poppins always said that a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down, the medicine go down, the medicine go down. Your government feels the same way. This is why they admitted to incompetence but never ever reprimanded, fired or demoted anyone for being incompetent. Humm, strange. But of course, that also fits the cover story of cover your ass incompetence about 9/11, doesn't it.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:17 | Link to Comment FoodTiger
FoodTiger's picture

So why would American Airlines spend money on technology to allow Wi-Fi during flight if that United flight proved cell phone calls at 30K feet can be easily made?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Good (sarcastic) question.

Why did they spend millions of dollars on new technology if cell phones easily worked on planes from any height? The answer is that cell phones didn't work on planes at any height and this is why all airlines spent millions to install equipment to enable cell phone and wi-fi use during the high and medium altitude portion of the flight.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 23:39 | Link to Comment ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

+1000

 

There was a test done on the air on a Canadian news station that showed a guy do 3 attempts (diff altitudes) and none of his 'regular cell phone on a plane' attempts were able to get any service.

But oh ya, right. Its a jet so it must have a special broadcaster on board, right??

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:39 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Wow, I'm impressed.  So y'all figured out that building 7 stuff?  Good on ya.  Mind control ain't got nuthin' on you.  Did ya also git to that moon thing yet?

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

How about them holes at the poles?

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread283492/pg1

Or maybe Copernicus was wrong after all?

http://www.geocentricity.com/geocentricity/primer.pdf

 

Nah, hurts your head?  Go back to sleep...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 05:32 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Your drivel is a wonderful example of a totally ineffective ad hominem attack followed closely by an ad hominem argument. First you call a person names, then you pull in completely unrelated information or fringe subjects and try to stick those stories on the person you attack.

They are both third grade psyops techniques that are no longer effective now that the average mind is beginning to become aware of your methods. Smear all you want. Your hit and run tactics just don't work anymore and the very fact that you still use them stinks of your desperation, both as a shill for hidden entities and your morally bankrupt character. Let's see if the first shift of shills can do better.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:25 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

cell phones didnt have the ability then, and not so good now.

In any case 3 buildings all fall same way in their own footprint is like winning lotto  7 days out of the week. Demolition crew did a great job pre 911 and carried it of successfully. I cheer the israelis for the great job they did destroying our country. Gee thanks a fucken bunch.It was murder outright and folks in our beloved wonderful administration know it.

Folks in the gulf know our leaders to be liars also.

Coreexit the bastards .

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:16 | Link to Comment Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

ME TOO! I did read Hitler put flouride in the water to control them and we put in our water so maybe that's what is wrong with the sheeple. IDK, I have an office water cooler with bottled water in my kitchen to drink so maybe that's why I'm feeling so rebellious. If or when the time comes I have faith in my fellow Americans that there are far less cowards than TPTB are counting on!  

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Well water, bitchez...

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:43 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

Really? The fluoride conspiracy too? Awesome! ZeroHedge is just a goldmine (no pun intended) for the vast array of conspiracy buffs out there. I even see a commentator here that's casting doubt on the fact that Flight 93 passengers fought with their hijackers. Really, buddy? I guess all those cell phone records and cockpit voice recordings were all lies, eh?

Ah well, I suppose we all must protect our vital fluids, even the crazies.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You've been on ZH precisely 2 weeks and 6 days and the comments you have left have been along the same lines. Not much credibility my friend. Try Yahoo fiance instead.

In 2001 cell phones did not work from 30k feet nor 20k feet nor 10k feet. Cell phone signals move laterally, not vertically by much more than a few thousand feet at best without the aid of physically higher cell phone towers. Plus even if the signals could reach the land based towers, the towers couldn't handle the task of switching a signal moving between towers at well over 500 mph from one cell phone tower to the next without dropping the calls. Still can't be done today

Even today, cells phone only work in airplanes at those heights because the planes have essentially cell phone repeater equipment in their bellies that convert the signals to something that can be sent either to towers on earth or to overhead satellites and then routed through land lines. The FBI finally admitted in court that only one cell phone call was ever received from the plane and it lasted exactly zero seconds. In other words, it didn't even connect.

I could go on and on but I don't wish to create a cognitive dissonance here on ZH.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

CD: I thought it was pretty well understood that the Flight 93 passengers used the GTE headrest phones that were available on almost every aircraft at the time.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:24 | Link to Comment FoodTiger
FoodTiger's picture

"Hi Mom. This is Mark Bingham"

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 07:40 | Link to Comment BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

Precisely.  As opposed to, "Hi Mom.  It's your son." 

Just one of countless examples.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

In fact, most planes did not have GTE headrest phones in 2001. It is still uncertain if the United plane did have them or not.

The "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" still clearly claims that most of the phone calls came from cell phones. I find it very interesting that as each "fact" in this theory is refuted, the "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" is never changed or modified. It remains as it was after the "official 9/11 conspiracy theory public myth keepers" aka the 9/11 Commission left it after substantial modification to cover some of the gaping holes with other sometimes even larger gaping holes.

They can't modify it ever again without allowing the entire stinking mess to be reopened and reexamined. That would spell certain death to the "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" so it's never changed to reflect new findings, even those of the "official" variety. To express any doubt in the official theory will only invite a huge and growing public backlash of questions on top of more questions. The "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" was buried in 2005-06 and will not be exhumed unless we make them do so.

Actually it's being exhumed daily by a very large and growing group of citizen investigators, led by (among hundreds of other organizations) www.AE911Truth.org or Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, with well over 1200 trained, licensed and respected architects and engineers demanding a new investigation into the official physical impossibilities of 9/11 in New York City.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:07 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Look, CD, I appreciate your ardent beliefs. I'm sure you have a lengthy list of compelling "evidence" of conspiracy and coverup. Maybe I'm just a Kansas hayseed, another dupe who's been fooled by the MSM and the military/media/industrial complex. However, where are these people today? 

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight93.png

Are they in Gitmo?

How about these poor souls?

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight77.png

Maybe they're being held in one of those secret CIA prisons?

Where might these people be?

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight175.png

My guess is one of those "FEMA" camps down by the railyard.

And lastly, how about these folks?

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight11.png

Don't you think one of them might have escaped and contacted relatives by now?

I think the most logical explanation, however is that they're DEAD. They all died on hijacked airplanes that were intentionally crashed on September 11, 2001. 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Rebel
Rebel's picture

Turd,

ZH has an incredibly diverse viewership, united by a fairly widely held belief that we are in a big mess, and there is a reasonable chance of some sort of collapse, potentiality imminent. Beyond that, there is a spectrum of views on how we got here. It is true, that there are many lies being told, but the question is whether they result from an orchestrated conspiracy, or whether they are individual lies of expediency, governed by a 24 hour news cycle. There is a diversity of views as to how much of our problems come from incompetence and how much is an orchestrated plan. 

If I showed you a page with hundreds of dots on it, you could connect some of the dots to create a picture of Mickey Mouse, and then speculate that the creator of the page had in fact created an image of Mickey Mouse, and then obfuscated it with the other dots. Another person looks at the page, and says it is just random dots. Everyone sees the same dots, but they attribute different meaning to them. The fact is, it is hard to discern what the truth really is.

For me, I lean towards the belief that there is not an orchestrated conspiracy, but that what we are seeing is an overall incompetence in government, combined with a series of lies of expediency, and no overarching grand conspiracy.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

"For me, I lean towards the belief that there is not an orchestrated conspiracy, but that what we are seeing is an overall incompetence in government, combined with a series of lies of expediency, and no overarching grand conspiracy."

Very well said, Reb. +++++

 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 04:28 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Turd

You're presenting a straw man argument. I never said a plane did not crash in PA. I'm saying the "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" story about brave passengers storming the cockpit is the official cover up story. Regardless of if it did or did not happen this way, there are so many problems with the entire cover story that I wouldn't know where to begin. Why did one of the engines wind up nearly 2 miles away and other parts wind up nearly 5 miles away in the PA "crash"? The plane supposedly went down intact. Engines don't bounce 2 miles Turd. They just don't.

Why don't you sit down over a long weekend and actually study the subject rather than pick and choose information that confirms your bias and then stop. The offical 9/11 conspiracy story has holes wherever you look and just because some things can't be explanied doesn't dissmiss the fact that the vast majority of the offical story makes absolutly no sense whatsoever.

What you are doing is pointing to small things that no one can explain without an honest and independent investigation and your saying "Well, since you can't explain this your wrong on the entire argument". This is bullshit. The government has told us a story. It is they who must prove it and they have not. And you would find this out if you did your own independent investigation rather than pick small items that can't be explained and then rest easy knowing that your worldview remains intact.

So you believe you government did not lie about 9/11? That other than some cover up, everything they told you is true and you accept this without investigation? Turd, you're being taken for a long ride on the short bus by the government. Enjoy the ride or demand you get off. But don't accept something simply because it's too much of a cognitive dissonance to look carefully.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 07:49 | Link to Comment BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

Amen CD.  But waking up seems more and more to me very much like recovering from a physical addiction.  The addict must want to recover for any meaningful progress to occur. 

 

Two thumbs up to you for continuing to press the matter daily.  From what I've seen over the last 2 years, most would rather remain addicted to lies, coverups and beliefs that WE continue to elect incompetents (who then appoint fellow incompetents).

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 08:26 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I agree. This is why I spent a significant portion of my 5 part series "Welcome to the Insane Asylum" discovering the similarities between addiction, the Stockholm Syndrome, spousal and child abuse and denial in the population.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 07:54 | Link to Comment BoeingSpaceliner797
BoeingSpaceliner797's picture

Time for a re-read of that piece.  Did you have to make it a five-part-er?  j/k.  Thank you for committing to paper/electrons.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:26 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

CD, I hope you know that I very much enjoy your analysis and posts. I'm not trying to pick a fight. In this case, however, please don't patronize me.

Just because I am unwilling to accept the idea that the extraordinarily incompetentUS government (our government) willingly killed 3000 citizens to start a war does not make me someone who "accept something simply because it's too much of a cognitive dissonance to look carefully."

My question for you is this: If you truly believe what you claim to be true, if your government is responsible for the deaths of 3000 of your fellow citizens, what are you personally doing to bring about justice for the victims? And don't give me this crap about postings on the internet and message boards and explanations of your theories to your neighbors. If you truly believe that your government is this inherently evil, it is your obligation as a citizen to do everything in your power to overthrow it and bring the perpetrators to justice. The proof that you truly believe the "truther" version of events lies in your actions, not words. What actions are you taking? If none, then you are every bit as guilty as Dick Cheney. You are an accomplice after-the-fact. An unindicted co-conspirator. If your neighbor dies under mysterious circumstances and later you come to believe her husband murdered her, is it not your obligation to do everything in your power to bring the husband to justice? If you have evidence of his guilt yet choose not to act, instead just gossiping about your evidence to your friends, aren't you then complicit in the crime? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:37 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I've asked that question of 911 inside jobbers many times and haven't heard a convincing answer.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:55 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

Ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner.

Nice post.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:01 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You keep bringing in straw man arguments. I never said why the government did or didn't kill three thousand people during 9/11 to start a war. I said the government has lied to us about what happened in 9/11. It appears you have a set of beliefs about things and you keep trying to label me with them. Let's stick with the fact that the government has told us a theory about 9/11 that is full of holes a mile wide and it is their responsibility to prove their theory. They have not done so at all. 

And what I am or am not doing has nothing to do with those hole in the government theory. But to directly answer your question, I would be insane to explain exactly what I am or am not doing to bring this insanity to a close, particularly if it is or were "unlawful". Sorry but mama didn't raise me to be that stupid. But I am doing much privately. After a year on ZH, after comments on over 2500 articles and contributing over a dozen articles myself, if you can't take me at my word, then there is nothing I can say to change your mind.

Publicly I became an extremely active local "activist" working on local issues within my county and community. This all came about after I learned the truth late in 2002. I am putting my back and shoulder where my mouth is.

But by the same token, since you are so certain that your government and FED is behind the wholesale destruction of the social and economic viability of America, what are you doing to stop this financial insanity? It is even more corrosive and deadly than "just" the killing of three thousand American citizens during 9/11 when you consider the collapse that's coming. Millions will suffer directly and for a long time. There will be hundreds of thousands of deaths from the coming wars, famine and social dislocations. Look at all the "extra" deaths that have been (government) documented as arising from the great depression. 

So what are you doing? As a citizen, you must fight this fascism.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 18:37 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

No. The accepted truth does not need to be proven, because people already believe in it. They've already seen the "evidence" and the accepted truth makes sense to them. It is peddlers of conspiracy theories such as yourself, who claim that the accepted truth is, in fact, a lie, that need to PROVE their alternative theories are the actual truth.

 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 19:54 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Wow, just a big fat wow on the big twisted strawman argument along with the "accepted truths don't need to be proven because they are accepted" idiocy.

Wow. Your intellect is simply blinding little strawman.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 08:08 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The earth was the center of the solar system was the accepted truth during copernicus's day. It was accepted as the truth and unquestionable because it was enforced by a brutal religious regime who felt it was a good idea kill disention with something lethal.

Since the world is a world of force. The accepted truth is nearly always wrong but exists through conformity and force. People aren't stupid. They are just abused to stupidity. Because a persons percieved ingnorance and self valuation of intellect is directly porportional to their willingness to engage in combative debate. Just as persons confidence in his ability to defeat an opponent in physical combat will dictate his actions.

Accepted truths give power and perception to someone and are usually defended through every means possible. Control is mostly achieved through chiron. Which is original woundings in a specific domain followed by repeated continual focus of wounding by the powers that be. Like when you stab a guy in the gut and then stick your hand in there and pinch stuff. It's a great system because the powers that be can always outgang and overpower you in that regaurd without a herculean effort on your part. And people are conditioned to become aware of other peoples chironic actiivty and mindlessly and subconciously attack it without explanation of what it is there for. The problem is that the powers that be are so much better at hurting us than we are at hurting them employing nearly every kind of chironic wounding to everyone to maintain control the people get confused and never seem hit on the sweet spot and simply mindlessly play out thier own chironic wounding to everyone thinking it works on everyone as well as it works on you.

Just like world war II. The american military couldn't focus on supply lines of oil because we had millions of barrels of oil chugging out of texas. It was absolutely NO problem for us and we couldn't see our opponents problems because we couldn't get out of our egoic expression of the thing.

Chirons are

Aries Self loathing

Taurus Lack of comfort and security

Gemini Pain of intellectual capacity

Cancer Self love, giving constantly to others and neglecting yourself.

Leo lack of attention

Etc etc.

It goes on and on. But like I said in another post there are energy aggregators. A sufficiently senstive open person is able to be overpowered with these chirons at will and a supply of pain is always on tap. You take a 1000 people starving off in a desert in the africa, bottle it up and flood someone in america with it and it will fuck them up big time.

You take 20,000 children ridiculing a deformed child and pump it into person right before she goes and visits a plastic surgery and the bitch is going to buy nose and boob job.

You take 50 kids being locked in closets and bathrooms when their mom is mad at them and pump it into hyperactive 12 year old in New Jersey and you are going to have a kid that demands so much attention that you will harm them badly psychologically trying to combat it.

God employs perfect sadism to achieve his goals. As long as you are senstive enough and able to confuse yourself and distort your situation and you are being pumped this junk you won't be able to discriminate the group pain energy from your own.

Chiron is unhealable but I'm not sure if there has to be enough constant severe damaging situations going on to keep it working or if it can be bottled up and stored. But the supply of 10 to 15 percent of the population being emotionless sociopathic damagers might have to be present on the planet for it work.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 04:48 | Link to Comment chrisina
chrisina's picture

Well said.

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

Napoleon Bonaparte

 

The incompetence of central bankers, governments and especially those who advise them, neoclassical economists, has been documented over and over again:

. they didn't foresee this crisis

. they thought we'd have a V shape recovery

. they thought unemployement would max at 8.5%

. they thought pumping money into banks would "multiply" itself into many more loans to households and businesses

. they thought the critical issue was liquidity, when it's insolvency

. they thought it's a cyclical recession when it's secular

and the list goes on and on...

Civilizations have collapsed over and over again in the past and it's always been because of the incompetence of the elites at the helm, because they were incapable of abandoning deeply entrenched but ultimately destructive beliefs. This time those destructive beliefs are encapsuled in what has been tought and is still being tought to generations of economists, MBAs and other financial advisors : that there are no limits to exponential growth, to leverage, that economies are always in equilibrium, that humans are rational... the foundations of neoclassical economics, the bankrupt dogma of our time. 

So maybe this time is different, this phenomenal display of incompetence is all part of a grand nefarious plan to install a new socialist world order, that it's all faked and instigated by powerful puppet masters who are engineering our collapse in order to gain absolute control over the lives of all human beings...

 

 


 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 06:58 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Rebel, you are one of the wiser posters here.  Well said. 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:57 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

" Maybe I'm just a Kansas hayseed, another dupe who's been fooled by the MSM and the military/media/industrial complex"

You should have stopped right there because you just hit the nail...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 08:54 | Link to Comment DavidC
DavidC's picture

I'm not sure whether the points being made here are suggesting a conspiracy or not and given that ZH is not a forum for 9/11 conspiracy theories I'm reticent to add!

However, all I can say is that on the day, and on subsequent viewings, the WTC building 7 collapse (notwithstanding ANYTHING else of the day) looked and looks, to me, totally unnatural, particularly as it wasn't directly hit.

DavidC

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:52 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Dave: The building was mortally damaged by internal fires and the collapse of WTC 1 & 2. Ultimately, its structural integrity was compromised and it collapsed. 

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:17 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

Okay, so it wasn't cellphones they used, it was the "sky phones" on the plane. My mistake.

However, your contention is that there were no calls AT ALL, sky phone or no. I think that's a pretty absurd contention. Do you realize how many people would have to be collectively lying (without ONE leak!) in order to support your conspiracy theory that these calls from Flight 93 never happened? It boggles the mind.

Of course, you have to have an actual sound mind in order to grasp this and, in my experience, conspiracy theorists do NOT have sound minds. They're mentally sick people suffering from a persecution complex along with possessing enormous egos with an outsized sense of self-importance ("everybody's out to get ME, ME, the all-important ME!"... yeah, right... like the CIA/Trilateral Commission/Elders of Zion ain't got better things to do than to target your dumb, worthless ass).

Yep, Dissonance, I've been on here exactly 2 weeks and in that short amount of time I've discovered all sorts of nutters, from Nazi stooges to fluoride conspiracy theorists. And now we've got you, the 9-11 denier... I guess it was only a matter of time before that pile of compost was turned on ZH since it's more popular than the JFK assasination among the conspiracy set. Thanks for revealing yourself as one of the kooks whose posts can be safely ignored in the future.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 03:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I haven't proposed any theories. All I've said is that the "official 9/11 conspiracy theory" is full of holes and impossible. And I notice you keep changing the subject. Why were we told the passengers used cell phones when they couldn't and didn't? Why did one of the United engines land two miles away and other debris up to 5 miles away when the official theory says the plane went down entirely intact with both engines attached and powering the plane?

Yes, I understand facts might be inconvientent but try anyway.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 12:37 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

So the story is that two cellphone calls were made, while 35 airphone calls were made. Even if your theory is correct that those two cellphone calls never went through, there's still the small matter of 35 airphone calls. Do you deny that those were made?

As for your engine conspiracy, Popular Mechanics (whom I trust just a bit more than you or your conspiracy theorist buddies) puts that lie to rest:

"Claim: One of Flight 93's engines was found "at a considerable distance from the crash site," according to Lyle Szupinka, a state police officer on the scene who was quoted in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Offering no evidence, a posting on Rense.com claimed: "The main body of the engine ... was found miles away from the main wreckage site with damage comparable to that which a heat-seeking missile would do to an airliner."

 

FACT: Experts on the scene tell PM that a fan from one of the engines was recovered in a catchment basin, downhill from the crash site. Jeff Reinbold, the National Park Service representative responsible for the Flight 93 National Memorial, confirms the direction and distance from the crash site to the basin: just over 300 yards south, which means the fan landed in the direction the jet was traveling. "It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996. "When you have very high velocities, 500 mph or more," Hynes says, "you are talking about 700 to 800 ft. per second. For something to hit the ground with that kind of energy, it would only take a few seconds to bounce up and travel 300 yards." Numerous crash analysts contacted by PM concur."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-m...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:26 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

Or maybe you should do some research jacko

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 10:58 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

Research conspiracy theories? Nah, thanks. There's enough tin foil hat wearin' wackos busy doin' that tough work.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:39 | Link to Comment Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Good vid of Michael Badnarik talking on the subject if interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbNIU2KEz4g

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

+1  Read the last chapter of Alasdair MacIntyre's After Virtue.  When discussing the parallels that may be drawn between our times and the time of the fall of the Roman Empire in the West, he points out that when a sufficient number of "people of good will" cease to see it as their duty to maintain the imperium, then the focus becomes more local.  This is the context in which he counterposes Trotsky and St Benedict.  Amazing work.  The "responsibility" to pay taxes, when it loses all moral dimension and becomes simply the choice to avoid government sanction, is a case in point.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:29 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

well then then federal pen best have room for me too. I aint payen no more. Course i aint earn no more either on account them thar green papers aint worth a worken fer ifn bernacle can print them, he cain damm sore pay the bills wid them. Fork you bernadette

haven fun

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:16 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

You can always join the underground economy. Barter...silver (usually pre 1965 coins) is accepted, as well as fresh veggies, tools, ammo, etc..

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

+1

I did already put an add on the Internet offering to accept coins for payment for the work that my husband does but I didn't think about ammo!!!!

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 02:12 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

Lucky:

Go to a coin dealer, pay cash, and get a receipt. Why the receipt? You may have to sell them on radar at some point and you will want to be able to establish a cost basis. My intention is to not need the receipts.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 07:08 | Link to Comment ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

Living in a rural area, barter has always existed to an extent, but is getting as prevalent as ever now.  Some things I've traded for (both ways):

Guns/ammo, dog, brush mower, beef, venison, firewood, tools, butchering, furniture, a small fishing boat, fencing material, on and on and on

I enjoy barter, because it allows people to get rid of stuff they don't need to get stuff they do.  No tax, no system, no squat.  Plus, whoever is on the upside of the trade can usually get some beer, or a bottle thrown in.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:21 | Link to Comment jakoye
jakoye's picture

You have the most disturbing avatars.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:43 | Link to Comment kathy.chamberli...
kathy.chamberlin@gmail.com's picture

no shit, Geronimo

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:48 | Link to Comment boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

Someone should start Colonial Script All over again

Pehaps 10 or 20 different scripts

http://www.kamron.com/Liberty/colonial_script.htm

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:23 | Link to Comment ATM
ATM's picture

Just stop filing. It will probably take them 15 years to figure out you what happened to you and not filing is a misdemeanor whereas filing a false return is a felony.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

The question is how soon?  With fresh dollars pumping into the system, it could fake it a while longer.  Or it could go down over night, from just a passing kick at the rotten snag.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:47 | Link to Comment Double down
Double down's picture

Damn good

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:47 | Link to Comment DeweyLeon
DeweyLeon's picture

I thought Faber was going to cry at the end.  I don't know which is more pathetic, our current financial state of affairs or that people like Faber (who should know better) get caught flat footed everytime the truth is pointed out to them. 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:56 | Link to Comment casino capitalism
casino capitalism's picture

What irriates me is when the cheerleaders try to undermine the messages of the "realists" by pointing out how negative they are.  Faber does that a few times.  I always correct people when they say I am too bearish.  I say I am a realist - watching everything that is going on objectively rather than through rose colored glasses.  We need more realists and less cheerleaders.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:51 | Link to Comment greased up deaf guy
greased up deaf guy's picture

agreed. without watching the video yet (it's blocked here at work)... if anyone should know better about calling kyle out on anything, then it's faber due to his "house of cards" special. at the time, he was touting him as one of the few people who saw the housing bubble for what it was and made a proverbial assload of money as a result.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:17 | Link to Comment deadparrot
deadparrot's picture

Remember, 95% of people are clueless regarding investments. Sure, everybody you know has some money invested in equities via IRAs and 401ks, but most of them take no actions other than opening their quarterly statements. Americans have been hypnotized by the 20-year bull market to believe stocks always go up over the long term and that they just need to wait until all this silliness is sorted out. Therefore, your bearishness (and I know exactly you feel as I get the same responses) is interpreted as an attack on their sense of financial security.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 19:29 | Link to Comment Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Exactly! I frequently tell folks about the behind-the-scenes in banking and finance. And what a crock it is to hold longterm in this environment. Few can tell me what mutual funds their 401k holds. None can tell me what those mutual funds are composed of, fees, etc. "Someone else takes care of that." The sheer self abnegation, laziness and lack of confront on the subject drives me bonkers. Some folks are going to have a hard wake up call.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:17 | Link to Comment deadparrot
deadparrot's picture

Remember, 95% of people are clueless regarding investments. Sure, everybody you know has some money invested in equities via IRAs and 401ks, but most of them take no actions other than opening their quarterly statements. Americans have been hypnotized by the 20-year bull market to believe stocks always go up over the long term and that they just need to wait until all this silliness is sorted out. Therefore, your bearishness (and I know exactly you feel as I get the same responses) is interpreted as an attack on their sense of financial security.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:28 | Link to Comment MountainHawk
MountainHawk's picture

Perfectly said... very few people have any clue about finance....

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:00 | Link to Comment Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

The industry is based on enough fools to operate on long term investment, buy and hold strategy which was proven suicidal a while ago.  They keep the volatility lower and make it easier to sell quickly.  While being played for suckers. I don't have a 401k, IRA, or anything that ties up your money.  With the exception of gold and silver, which is money and is what is happening now.  I'm a bull on miners cause they have a long range bull market ahead, but they are not the only game in town and one day will fade.  Investors are lazy about stop losses.  I hope a lot of people got a little disciplined after 08.  Next time their stocks may not come back in their lifetime.  Even Alfred E. Newman is getting nervous.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 01:14 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

I gave a rant the other day about my company and how screwed up it is.  This guy, (management of course), gave me the typical "you're being too negative" speech.  So I enlightened him.  Negative and positive are just perspectives, they depend on your point of view.  The truth is the truth.  Let me give you an example.  I give you the news that 80 thousand people were just vaporized in Nagasaki.  Is that negative?  Ummm yea, if your family lived there it's about as negative as it gets.  Was it the truth? yup.  How did you take that news if you had a GI in your family who was about to be deployed in the invasion of the mainland?  You threw a party.  Get it?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Faber is a smart guy.  Sometimes I wonder if segments like this aren't merely skits put on out of a sense of guilt: "I work for the devil and it's eating me alive.  Let me, this one time, shine truth".  I mean, it's not like Faber doesn't know the man's views ahead of time, and he certainly didn't have any solid retorts prepared.  It was like he said, "Bass, come on and do your thing, and I'll pretend to attempt to present the other side to appease the bosses".

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:16 | Link to Comment 20smoney
20smoney's picture

Conrad, interesting thoughts.  I often wonder these things too.. i mean are these guys on TV that stupid?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:20 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

They were oddly passive during the interview I thought. As I said, I think the truth has sunk in...we are in a world buried in debt up to our asses. Best they can say is how well Spain's debt auction went? Huh?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:05 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

And then Bass called it out as a fraud.

Bwahahaha

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:21 | Link to Comment impending doom
impending doom's picture

Is that an ass growing out of your neck there, JL?

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