A National Sales Tax is Coming
By Jeff Harding of The Daily Capitalist
The “Center for American Progress” is the best example of an oxymoronish name that I can think of. This is a “progressive” (socialist) “think tank” (another misleading term) lead by John Podesta, a former Clinton Chief of Staff and Obama adviser.
They are coming out with a report on Wednesday that will recommend that:
[T]he administration should consider a tax on consumption, such as a value-added tax [VAT] system similar to that in use in the European Union. Mr. Podesta suggested that its impact should be limited to protect lower-income people, who otherwise might be hit particularly hard.
The center’s president and chief executive, John Podesta, who is an Obama adviser, said the administration should consider a tax on consumption, such as a value-added tax system similar to that in use in the European Union. Mr. Podesta suggested that its impact should be limited to protect lower-income people, who otherwise might be hit particularly hard.
“As progressives we need to debate the policy merits [of] a range of options, including designing a small and more progressive value-added tax,” Mr. Podesta said in a statement Tuesday.
Apparently even they recognize that you just can’t tax the rich enough to cover the Administration’s vast spending programs:
In order to pay for the national health care plan, the Democrats were already planning to impose a tax surcharge of between 1.0% and 1.5% on those whose income is $350,000 or more. I did the numbers on this and I came up with 300,000 lucky taxpayers who will be burdened with the privilege of paying for our health care (the Democrats say it’s more like 1,000,000 taxpayers, but I think I’m closer). Now it looks as if the regressives agree with me.
The report, which will be released on Wednesday, said the administration can’t rely on taxing richer Americans and companies to reduce the deficit to sustainable levels by 2014 because those groups would see 40% tax increases.
Guess what else is happening on Wednesday? Just a coincidence I’m sure, but the Volker Panel on How to Raise Taxes Without Anyone Noticing is meeting as well. The meeting will be streamed live starting at 12:30 if you wish to tune in to their public deliberations.
I predicted in March of this year that the Administration would look to a VAT to raise taxes:
My guess is that it will include non-food retail sales and they will add services (information, professional, technical and scientific, administrative and support, waste management and remediation, but excluding medical services). The services aspect is important because this will skew the tax more to corporations and upper income taxpayers. …[Obama] will structure it so that low income people will get a refund of taxes paid. The refund will be phased out as income increases.
In 2008 retail sales (excluding food) were about $4 trillion. Services in 2007 were another $2 trillion. Let’s say they need to raise $1 trillion over the next 4 fiscal years, or $250 billion a year. That would require a 4.5% national sales tax. In Europe they call this a value added tax (VAT) and the rate in the E.U. is about 15%.
Volker already said he thinks the VAT is a good idea. No surprise there; that’s why Obama chose him.
So, let’s see. They want to stimulate consumer spending to revive the economy. How do we get people to part with their money instead of socking it away in the bank? I know: let’s tax consumption. Brilliant.
(5 votes)
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on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 07:45
#83531
no problem in NY...we already pay ~8% sales tax.
and an income tax (top rate of 6.85 recently exceeded with new "millionare tax" in 7 and 8 range).
oh, and property taxes...my home is worth 225ish and my property taxes are a bit over 5 grand per year.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 07:59
#83541
But DH,
The VAT is on top of all those taxes and (the best part for the gov) is that it is invisible! It doesn't show on the sales receipt because it is collected at each step of the manufacturing process and shows up as an increase in the item's price. It may start at 4.5% but it will quickly rise because it is a stealth tax that can't be easily seen (like when you fill out your 1040 or look at the sales reciept "sales tax" line). Also, it hits even on-line purchases so there is NO avoiding it. It will be 15% (or higher) in just a few years. So your cost of living just goes up by 4.5% overnight and keeps rising (even if inflation is 0%).
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 02:07
#84906
And because of this stealth, it will be slowly creeping up and up... Denmark used to be the only EU nation with a 25% sales tax, now others are starting to follow suit.
There is no more freedom on this planet, every nation is turning into a tax slavery nightmare. We are all being enslaved by the bureaucrats, slowly but steadily.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 18:53
#85933
To make the long story short
the ultimate vat payer is
the consumer.Will reinforce
the: buy made in China,
ultimately cheaper.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 08:02
#83543
In Penna. there is an Occupational Privilege Tax and here in Tennessee the sales tax is 9.5%.
A VAT makes a bunch of sense to folks that are doing everything they can to get American's spending and taking on more debt again to reinflate the economy. A VAT might actually hasten the process of deleveraging by the household sector, but it will kill small businesses of all sorts.
I remember living in Germany and their VAT of 14% then, I think it is 19% now. No wonder they export & save.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 08:45
#83590
If your entire plan is to consolidate ownership into a few "too big to fail" institutions, killing small businesses (and local and regional banks who back them), this proposal would make perfect sense. Compound this with C's failure ("the champion of small business lending" har har har) and I think we'll all be hearing a little more about credit contraction dwarfing all efforts of central banks to stabilize and or prop up the problem.
I'm also curious about the constitutionality of such a federal proposal, given sales tax is primarily a state and local government sphere of influence. They could accomplish the same thing by forcing states to raise taxes if the federal government cut funding (presuming states also don't have the stomach to fix the problem). But, sometimes it is necessary for the judiciary to get caught up in the form of a law.
This is going to be a lame duck propsal I'm thinking. Why wouldn't Obama lose an incredible amount of political capital (that precious thing he's losing at a rate equal to credit contraction) for increasing taxes as he said he wouldn't? Seems like his proposals to help the economy are going to give an incredible amount of ammunition to his opponents. Of course, I guess "it was all George Bush's fault; Obama was handed all these problems!" *olberman voice*
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 13:12
#84002
The Neo Cons will have a field day with this.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 20:35
#84587
Even the Obamacons will come out of hiding to play as well. Leo Strauss would be pleased. What will it be tonight, Gunsmoke or Perry Mason?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:19
#83750
Yeah, but you get to live in New York with all the Goldman and JPMorgan "swells". That is a "privilege", not a "right".
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 11:44
#83879
Anyone living in China/Europe/Hong Kong/Russia/UK knows the different economic productivity outcomes between flat taxes, sales taxes and VAT, increasingly lethal in that order.
Russia went to a 13% flat tax after collapse and is now a surplus nation with billionaire oligapolists, to use PM's oligarchy monopoly word.
Hong Kong always had low taxes and became a powerhouse until China took over. China has 26 types of taxes including VAT, which because of corruption were not always as deadly as they might be. In fact, China is now cutting VAT corporate taxes.
The USA, especially NYC as noted, basically destroyed its economic base with unproductive overlapping inflated regressive taxes like FICA and red tape since the Kennedy and Reagan economic tax cut miracles.
Nobel Laureate James Tobin touted a minor transaction tax as the most productive form of fair uniform Constitutional tax, which neither the Income Tax, FICA, property, sales, sin taxes or other tickets and DMV fees are.
At various times, Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz and even CEA Chair Larry Summers (1989) advocated the transaction tax for its productivity multiplier - encouraging saving and economic transactions generating more than the minor threshold transaction tax, while replacing less productive taxes on assets, creativity, income and property.
With a quadrillion derivative and other financial transactions a year, and the technology to transparently levy it, a 1% transaction tax generating $10 T a year could quickly balance the budget and pay off the Federal Debt before being reduced from 1% to one mil with spending freezes as part of the original legislative language.
With politics as they are, dominated by big derivative trading banks, corps and IRS unions, it may take a quick electoral revolution for Constitutional Independents or a glacial cleansing by deflationary depression to implement.
JubileeProsperity.com
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 14:01
#88312
This follows a white paper that I wrote in 2000 that placed a 1/2 percent tax on electronic transaction to be paid by the sender and receiver (1% total). Driving this closing loopholes involving international funds transfers to fund off-shore R&D, Corporate sheltering, and the like.
In addition, over $3 trillion in commerce transactions reside on the Federal Reserve's network each working day. By having the Fed's network collect the transaction fee via downstream e-trancations at the banking account level, the IRS could be eliminated.
I agree, this is the only fair tax and is something that is not passed on to consumers but works on the basis of "moving money to make money" rather than "sweat worker-based creation of value."
But the whole problem is that this "fair" transactional tax (not a sales tax) requires a capitalistic economic base of free enterprise. Also, it takes power away from politicians who would rather enslave the population through taxation.
Also interesting is that, based on today's value of money, this fair tax would pay down the national debt in six years allowing a balanced budget (based upon 2006 analysis.
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 14:09
#88313
This follows a white paper that I wrote in 2000 that placed a 1/2 percent tax on electronic transaction to be paid by the sender and receiver (1% total). Driving this closing loopholes involving international funds transfers to fund off-shore R&D, Corporate sheltering, and the like.
In addition, over $3 trillion in commerce transactions reside on the Federal Reserve's network each working day. By having the Fed's network collect the transaction fee via downstream e-trancations at the banking account level, the IRS could be eliminated.
I agree, this is the only fair tax and is something that is not passed on to consumers but works on the basis of moving money to make money rather than sweat worker-based creation or agrarian producer base taxing system as we have now.
But the whole problem is that this "fair" transactional tax (not a sales tax) requires a capitalistic economic base of free enterprise. Also, it takes power away from politicians who would rather enslave the population through taxation.
Also interesting is that, based on today's value of money, this fair tax would pay down the national debt in six years allowing a balanced budget (based upon 2006 analysis).
R. Ellington Smith
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:25
#83936
Almost as much fun as NJ.
But SNL can have much more fun with your Governor.
So it balances out.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 13:07
#83992
California State income tax rate up to 9.3% of income.
9.75% sales tax in Los Angeles County, California.
1.5% per annum property tax on homes. Higher on industrial/retail property.
19.2 cents per gallon of gas tax.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 22:51
#84773
Commiefornia, thanks to Prop13, has 1% property tax with increases limited to 2% of prior year amount added...the increase must be voted in or it never happens.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 13:11
#84000
This will start a tax revolt.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 17:19
#85830
A sales tax isn't such a bad idea. In California, the sales tax was just raised to a ridiculously high 9.75 percent to help bring the deficit under control. I hate it, but it hasn't changed my consumption one bit. It's just too small to worry about. I have to live my life, regardless.
The same would be true of a 1-2 percent federal tax.
I know all you anti-tax guys hate the idea. Basically, so do so do I. But I hate something else more. These ridiculous deficits are financial suicide and immoral. So the next time you oppose the latest revenue-raising idea, tell me how to solve the deficit. And don't just say cut spending. We have to do more than that to balance the budget, although that would be a great start.
Jetjimbo
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 11:23
#86586
So you are saying, give the keys to your house to the guys that just robbed you though they promise not to do it this time. Do we need to quote Winston Churchill's definition of insanity here? Good plan.
Here's there deal. I dont care what you do, we are not getting out of this with a lot of pain. The could have gotten this thing over in 18 months if they pulled the trigger and but instead greed and stupidity keeps moving us directionally to a much much larger and more protracted mess.
When are we going to stop being a bunch of complaining babies crying to Mommy. We put ourselvels in this position by electing these dopes into office, Clinton, Bush, Obama. One of the posters here is right, When it gets bad enough we will vote them out but until then look for more looting of the american public
Time is the only thing that can heal this. It's time to stop robbing Peter to pay Paul. Raising taxes is not going to change anything. You are taking money out of the very peoples hands that you need top stimlulate the economy. We are chiefly a service based economy and a buying economy. Those service and "lowly" maufacturing jobs that we wanted to kick out of this country because they were "beneath" us are NOT coming back.
Perhaps it hasnt changed your spending a bit but perhaps the fact that consumer savings have jumped to a percentage not seen in 30 years tells me that you are not the norm. And dont tell me that consumer savings is good. While the economists and media spin it as being good because people are getting are becoming averse to debt, the smart people know that taking on debt is what we need because otherwise we are moving into a deflationary model somwehat similar to what Japan had experienced and that scares the crap out of them more than anything.
And I pay over 10% in sales tax in Chicago but its not something to brag about its something to think. Hey wait the reason this happened is because someone was drunk at the wheel and although I wasnt driving I was the one that got the DUI. Look for more and more blame to come around when things get going. When invariably reactionary politicians get scared is usually the only time something happens for the good
Your math is so upside down I could go on here for hours. And what do we do, well we dont roll over like a bitch that wants her belly scratched as you seem to imply. So just give a big Hello to Mr. Deflation our new lord and master and talk to me in 2011 or 2015 depending on the amount of shenannigans our leaders are willing to sacrifice us over.
Ghostdog
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 11:31
#86598
So you are saying, give the keys to your house to the guys that just robbed you though they promise not to do it this time. Do we need to quote Winston Churchill's definition of insanity here? Good plan.
Here's there deal. I dont care what you do, we are not getting out of this with a lot of pain. The could have gotten this thing over in 18 months if they pulled the trigger and but instead greed and stupidity keeps moving us directionally to a much much larger and more protracted mess.
When are we going to stop being a bunch of complaining babies crying to Mommy. We put ourselvels in this position by electing these dopes into office, Clinton, Bush, Obama. One of the posters here is right, When it gets bad enough we will vote them out but until then look for more looting of the american public
Time is the only thing that can heal this. It's time to stop robbing Peter to pay Paul. Raising taxes is not going to change anything. You are taking money out of the very peoples hands that you need top stimlulate the economy. We are chiefly a service based economy and a buying economy. Those service and "lowly" maufacturing jobs that we wanted to kick out of this country because they were "beneath" us are NOT coming back.
Perhaps it hasnt changed your spending a bit but perhaps the fact that consumer savings have jumped to a percentage not seen in 30 years tells me that you are not the norm. And dont tell me that consumer savings is good. While the economists and media spin it as being good because people are getting are becoming averse to debt, the smart people know that taking on debt is what we need because otherwise we are moving into a deflationary model somwehat similar to what Japan had experienced and that scares the crap out of them more than anything.
And I pay over 10% in sales tax in Chicago but its not something to brag about its something to think. Hey wait the reason this happened is because someone was drunk at the wheel and although I wasnt driving I was the one that got the DUI. Look for more and more blame to come around when things get going. When invariably reactionary politicians get scared is usually the only time something happens for the good
Your math is so upside down I could go on here for hours. And what do we do, well we dont roll over like a bitch that wants her belly scratched as you seem to imply. So just give a big Hello to Mr. Deflation our new lord and master and talk to me in 2011 or 2015 depending on the amount of shenannigans our leaders are willing to sacrifice us over.
Ghostdog
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 22:33
#88545
Re:JetJimbo
The most important thing to really understand is the government in the chairs of the Senate and the House of Representatives is not even capable of passing the healthcare plan from Obama.
As a citizen and taxpayer do you realize that the country
that vote for a tax increase will never see that tax money come back to them. Why do you think our Forefathers started the Boston Tea party? You say yes once then it becomes a given that it will increase behind closed doors without your knowledge.By then it's too late to turn back the clock.
See the E.U. on how the've been forced to come up with their own currency to keep each others monetary systems from collapsing. As Ronald Regan Who was actually brought up in the Democratic Party Mindset once said." There's nothing so permanent as a temporary government Program"!
Greg M
on Mon, 10/05/2009 - 21:57
#89592
Here's an idea! Wake up america and admit to yourselves that our elected officials don't give a S##T about us at all. Democrat or republican they all suck!!!!If you call yourself either one You don't deserve the right to vote.
We need real change in D.C.; all 535 members of Congress need to go! We need unknowns who are outside of the good old boy network.Who know nothing about the special interests and their influence pedaling.
Admit to yourself that congressional leadership behaves badly, RUINS EVERYTHING and blames everyone else but the SUN! Oh that's right, global warming! What a load of excriment! What these morons need is a dose of reality! how does 60 million pissed off constituents standing in the face of 535 lieing millionaires sound??
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 20:21
#88480
Join the party we are in L.A prop tax 4400$ now how you feel
take care the family tax haters
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 20:21
#88481
Just have payroll taxes.social security tax cover all earned income. That should make that 1.5% tax on the rich look real cheap. Impagine how much money those banks would have to pay on $500,000 plus bonus for running a company into the ground - 15%.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 08:14
#83552
VAT tax = more savings and less spending. VAT Tax + People accepting less money to do the same job + real unemployment rate of 18% + consumers paying off debt and therefore not spending the money= Deflationary.
Anyone see a flaw in this logic? Even without the VAT I still see deflation with these prospects for the next two years. Yes we could have some hyperinflation after that but I dont see that unless its brought on by a currency crisis.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:22
#83756
No flaw in your logic.
The US VAT makes perfect sense within the context of trillion dollar deficits and the need for "global re-balancing".
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 18:59
#84485
"...we could have some hyperinflation after that but I dont see that unless its brought on by a currency crisis"
I think we are set up for a currency crisis.
on Sun, 10/11/2009 - 17:29
#96042
Im betting strongly against a currency crisis at least in the near term (2 years) after that all best are off. but even the dopes in washington know the break point of the dollar and the will continue to try their reflation joke until the dollar is about to call uncle or maybe even beyond it a little because they dont know the right stop to get off of because they left the train schedule at home. AT that point look for the crunge and everything to rollover and the dollar to get a nice pump above 90 as the equally crappy Euro and Pound start getting their brains beat in. After that we can take a look at hyperinflation which indeed is a possibilty at the end but as much as I fully believe our government heads would lose to most children is a test of intelligence I cant even fathom them screwing that up now... Later, yes, for sure, definietly, you know it, holy crap i cant believe they did that,,,, but now... right now... No..
Ghostdog
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 08:19
#83553
Having lived in another nation that went from an embedded federal sales tax to an explicit federal sales tax, the message from the feds was a "promise" that the implementation would be revenue neutral.
The premise (actually we received a premise, not a promise) was that a refrigerator, for example, would have its embedded federal sales tax reduced and the retail cost would be minus the old embedded sales but plus the new federal sales tax (a VAT) and a provincial sales tax. Here's the numbers (using round numbers)...
Premise: Old wholesale fridge price = $1000
Old embedded federal sales tax = $100
Total retail price = $1100
Provincial sales tax = $100
Total cost = $1200
Premise after the VAT:
Premise wholesale fridge price = $900 (and total retail price)
Provincial sales tax = $100
Federal sales tax (VAT) = $100
Premise total cost = $1100 (roughly cheaper)
This is what happened instead:
Actual wholesale fridge price = $1000 (unchanged because wholesalers just swapped tax for margin)
Provincial sales tax = $100
Federal sales tax = $200 (higher since based on higher wholesale price)
Actual total cost = $1300
Since retailers & wholesalers just swapped tax for margin wherever they could, consumers just ended up getting an inflationary boost to their costs of 7%, the amount of the VAT. Not revenue-neutral. At best, politicians or administrators who seek a revenue-neutral plan will end up with an increase in costs to all consumers. At worst, politicians or administrators driven by some need to re-distribute discretionary income will achieve their goals through this and other means.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 08:36
#83577
All of these idiotic policies, in one form or another, have already been implemented in the 1930's. For those unfamiliar with the Great Depression and/or those who 'learned' about the Great Depression in American high schools, if you want to know where this is all heading, just look at California.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 09:11
#83639
Excellent! So, let me see if I have this straight:
Wonderful <sigh> - do I move overseas or find a government job and work 4 days a week and improve my quality of life? Seriously, what is the point?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:24
#83762
The "70% consumer-driven economy" is dead, buried and not coming back.
It's about time we started to see some government policy that recognizes that fact.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:58
#83981
Exactly--and the the secondary problem with this proposal is that it assumes a rate of consumer spending that either doesn't drop all that much or remains at the 70% mark. Increasing taxes on consumer goods when people are deleveraging their debt and saving more is like putting iodine on a bad scrape when you have a sucking chest would.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:01
#84488
No problem. If consumer spending drops to 35%, we just double the VAT, and in addition increase it proportionally to the extra pork needed. Duh!
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 09:58
#85164
Look, the Government now understands that REAL personal incomes are in a state of permanent decline. That is the reason that the income tax has got to go.
Instead, your consumption will be taxed.
Think of the Government like the old bank robber Willie Sutton. They know "where the money is" and that's where they go.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 09:17
#83649
Let's raise taxes...I still have a fe bucks left the azzholes haven't taken otherwise...then they can fine me the $25,000 and year in jail cuz I can't buy my Ubamacare Insurance.
Geeebus Aitch Rice....an American Administration that makes France look like a Libertarian Paradise.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 09:32
#83678
Wouldn't this require a constitutional amendment, in which case it's unlikely to happen?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:36
#83946
Constitution? What the hell is that?
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 04:21
#84935
+100.
It's some document in a museum somewhere I think?
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 14:11
#88319
No, I think it's the paper in the Congressional bathroom stalls.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 09:38
#83689
I just publish a post named USA - Land of the free? just click on the american flag so it can be translated.
Hurray zero hedge. Keep the awesome work.
www.liberdadedescolha.com
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:23
#83760
On the positive side...perhaps this will trigger the much needed revolution (I always advocate non violent but I am far from in control).
Pete
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 20:01
#84545
Sure Pete. Will you fire the first shot or are you waiting for someone else to go first?
.
.
.
.
.
Didn't think so....
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 11:25
#85299
What part of not advocating violence did you not understand?
So, I guess you are correct in that I will not be firing the first gunshot, but neither am I waiting for anyone else too either.
Now, as for figuratively firing a shot - again not the first to do so for sure - but through actions and activism and not just words in a blog I am well set.
Now if the real shooting were to start well let's just say I'll be fine and could probably protect you too as well.
Pray tell - what are you doing? I am sincerely interested Anon 84545.
Pete
on Mon, 10/12/2009 - 12:35
#96632
The one thing I know for sure is that the vast majority will continue to vote like a bunch of lemmings until taxes get bad enough. Though with the degree of slothfulness this country has taken on, they may need to raise taxes to 100% to get peoples attention. (Though some may enjoy it on the Kremlin Lot) But throughout history high taxes have been the only thing that has "eventually" created actual and sustainable change. (until lethargy sets in again)
Ok, I am chaning my opinion... I say, let them raise taxes, the higher the better. Then there will finally be some blood on the street and some real change with every pr*ck being voted out of office. It would have been the same context when oil was at 147.00. You wanted oil to come down. I would have lifted every regulation as to what they could charge at the pump and watch the bastards bring gas to 20.00 a gallon and watch everyone one say forget it.. F.U., Im not driving... Im done! and then watch the oil reserves mount up really really fast and they start choking on it and watch how fast gas prices would drop as they try to knee-cap every one of their competitors with lower prices.
To ptoemmes, I dont know if someone has to fire the first shot because you would be suprised what a nice dose of Knee-capping will do for a persons attitude.. :)
Ghostdog
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 10:48
#83798
National Sales tax should replace the current tax system, not be added on top of it!
These tam accountants would never let it happen!!!!!!
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 11:11
#83830
A VAT (or whatever they call it) is also a sneaky way to tax those pesky interstate internet/mail order purchases. The Beltway mob has been drooling over that potential revenue source for years.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 11:31
#83868
California gets creative with new taxes...the Feds race to compete.
http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2009/07/27/stor...
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:23
#83927
'Bout fookin time you showed up, dude. Donny, let's go get us a lane.
"MARK IT ZERO, DUDE"
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 04:23
#84936
Shut the fuck up Spekulatn, you're out of your element here. The Chinaman is not the issue.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 11:46
#83883
The fact that he favors a VAT might be a factor, but it'd be nice if Obama listens to Volcker's advice on regulatory reform for the financial system. We can only hope.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 22:09
#84711
The VAT wasn't the reason, or at least the major reason. Volcker is at the very top of the Globalists. Do NOT "listen" to anything he is proposing... except to stop it from happening. I hope people know who he really is, and not just one fact that he hiked interest rates in order to break stagflation and 'save the US.' Below is a summary of his public information (and realize who all is in BO's Administration - they have similar history to this and major plans for doing away with sovereignty):
Volcker was born on September 1927 in Cape May, New Jersey. He earned a bachelor of arts degree, summa cum laude, from Princeton in 1949, and a master of arts degree in political economy and government from the Harvard University Graduate School of Public Administration in 1951. Research assistant in the research department of the New York Fed during the summers of 1949 and 1950. Rockefeller Foundation vice-chair Robert Vincent Roosa was his mentor there, and Paul Volcker became part of his 'Brain trust', or 'Roosa bloc' in the following years. From 1951 to 1952, he was Rotary Foundation Fellow at the London School of Economics (Rotary International and the Lions Clubs are still seen today by some as the most important recruiting centers for the Masonic movement). He returned to the New York Fed as an economist in the research department in 1952, and special assistant in the securities department from 1955 to 1957. Financial economist at Chase Manhattan Bank 1957-1961. Director of the Office of Financial Analysis at the Treasury 1962-1963. Deputy Undersecretary for Monetary Affairs at the Treasury 1963-1965. Rejoined Chase Manhattan as vice president and director of forward planning 1965-1968. Undersecretary of the Treasury for Monetary Affairs 1969-1974. Senior fellow at the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University for the 1974-1975 academic year. Director Council on Foreign Relations 1975-1979 & 1988. President Federal Reserve Bank of New York 1975-1979. On July 26, 1979 the New York Times stated: "David Rockefeller, the chairman of Chase, and Mr. Roosa were strong influences in the Mr. Carter decision to name Mr. Volcker for the Reserve Board chairmanship." Chairman Federal Reserve System 1979-1987. Identified by BND officer Hans Langemann as a person who attended the December 1, 1979 meeting of Le Cercle in the Madison Hotel in Washington. Others that attended the meeting were the German Karl-Heinz Narjes (Bundestag; soon went to the ECC), William Colby (the recently retired CIA director at the time), Ed Feulner (president of the Heritage Foundation), Julian Amery (later chairman of Le Cercle; Privy Councillor; father was one of the closest Rothschild allies in building up Israel), and Jean Violet (French intelligence officer; Habsburg employee; Le Cercle co-founder and chairman; Fascist militant before WWII). Volcker became a member of the advisory board of Power Corporation in 1988 and is a friend to Canadian Paul G. Desmarais, Sr., a Privy Councillor and controlling shareholder of Power Corporation since 1968 (Desmarais and the Belgian Albert Frère jointly own about half of the major industries in France and Belgium, including Suez, Société Générale, Total, Imerys, and Groupe Bruxelles Lambert). Director of Prudential Insurance 1988-2000. Chairman of Wolfensohn & Co. in New York 1988-1996. North American chairman of the Trilateral Commission 1991-2001. Chairman of the newly created J. Rothschild, Wolfensohn & Company from March 1992 to 1995, Wolfensohn & Co.'s London-based joint venture. Visited Bilderberg in 1997. Attended meetings of the Ditchley Foundation and has chaired some of them. Advisor to the Japan Society and the International House. Member of the advisory board of Hollinger, together with Henry Kissinger, Richard Perle, and Zbigniew Brzezinski. Director of UAL Corporation, Bankers Trust New York Corporation, and Nestle, S.A. Director United States/Hong Kong Economic Cooperation Committee. Public member of the Board of Governors of the American Stock Exchange American Stock Exchange. Honorary trustee of the Aspen Institute. American Council on Germany, and the American Assembly. Co-chairman of the advisory board of Leadership Forum International and a principal of the Council for Excellence in Government. Member Circle of Presidents RAND Corporation, which means he has donated at least tens of thousands of dollars if not millions. Trustee International Accounting Standards Committee. Honorary chairman Financial Services Volunteer Corps, a firm founded by Cyrus Vance and John C. Whitehead in 1990. Honorary chairman Committee to Encourage Corporate Philanthropy. Chairman Independent Inquiry Committee into the Oil-For-Food program, which also employed Rockefeller’s granddaughter, attorney Miranda Duncan. Chairman board of trustees Group of Thirty (2005). Paul Volcker is a visitor of the Bohemian Grove camp Mandalay. Director of the United Nations Association of the United States of America 2000-2004. Director of the Fund for Independence in Journalism. Wrote the foreword of George Soros' 2003 book 'The Alchemy of Finance'. Director of the Institute for International Economics, Washington, headed by Peter G. Peterson. Other directors of the institute are Maurice R. Greenberg and David Rockefeller. Trustee of the American Assembly anno 2005, together with Admiral Bobby Ray Inman (former NSA head; director SAIC; Bohemian Grove; CFR; Trilateral Commission), David Gergen (Bohemian Grove; CFR; Trilateral Commission), and Frank A. Weil (governor Atlantic Institute; CFR). The American Assembly is sponsored by the Carnegie Corporation.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:08
#83908
The states are in deficit too and plan on raising the sales tax to plug up budget holes. I can't see congress giving the ok to a national VAT tax when the states are doing the same.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:29
#83941
All scumbags on an empire of dirt.
Makes me feel like Nine Inch Nails today, boys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFx2TmQfM-o
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:52
#83972
Maybe Obama had dinner with bad friends days ago...
Zapatero (spain) a week ago or so, told us great news... they are going to increase VAT, and taxes based on salarys, then Obama... amazing.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 12:54
#83973
And then an insane idea dawned on them all (voters - 50% of US Citizens that bother): Reduce the size of government Federal, State, County and Municipal by 30% to 40% (for starters)
First in line is all Federal & State service redundancies. Next State & County service redundancies etc. etc. etc. (while we are at it lets privatize the USPS and get rid of all those rude counter clerks protected by some insane union rules)
A shriek went up from all the government workers that could be heard across the ocean: "But what will happen to our jobs? Where will we work?
Right
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 13:05
#83991
I just want to be left alone. Can't these Nabby Pampy Nanny Staters just leave me alone?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 16:05
#84276
This is going to make bank robbery a huge industry.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 16:28
#84307
I agree with the other posters who suggest this will curtail consumer spending. People, including myself, will do anything and everything to avoid additional tax, even if that means not buying a new(er) car etc.
And they thought there would be a hangover after C4C. Just wait till this comes to fruition.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 18:19
#84425
Senate Climate Bill Drops ''cap and Trade'' Term
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: September 30, 2009
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Democrats tried out a new catch phrase Wednesday to sell their global warming bill: pollution reduction and investment, or PRI.
But it's just another name for cap and trade, a term derided by Republican critics as ''cap and tax'' because it will increase energy prices and which Democratic polls have shown faring poorly with voters.
Link http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/09/30/us/politics/AP-US-Climate-Rebranding.html
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 18:52
#84473
VATs are so insidious. Government wants to collect taxes in a way voters have a tough time figuring out how much in taxes they are really paying (which is why they tax corporations). We should have no new taxes. But if the choice is VAT or sales tax, sales tax is MUCH better because it is transparent and we have a system in place to calculate and collect it. VATs are very complicated and ripe for abuse and volumes of rules (which is another reason government like it).
We have got to shoot down this idea. But this is what happens when half the people don't (legally) pay any income taxes. It seems we are governed by morons...and I am increasingly afraid they are representative of our population.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:02
#84489
The VAT would be a nice boon to the cash economy, place a deflationary stone around the neck of the national economy, crush state tax troughs as consumption is slashed across the board, and might guarantee Barack Hussein Obama (mmm mmm mmm) will be a one-termer.
Not much of a silver lining, but seeing as I'm fresh out of KY I have to take what little I can get.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 22:54
#84778
mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm
heh heh heh
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:03
#84490
This would just give us a solid push towards where we're already going. More person to person transactions, bartering, and growing some of our own food. Everything that is done to screw the folks playing by the rules will push more and more transactions off the grid.
The best off folk are in a free for all, looting the country for all its worth before they jump ship so to speak. In the old days our economy was almost wiped out many times because one could exchange silver for gold. Now folk exchange crap digital fiatcos for massive chunks of multi-generational wealth.
For those of us who ain't so lucky the most important thing to do is to have friends who have things (skills, perspectives, whatever) that we lack. Get everything to zero and be beholden to no one.
For the folks on teevee its all just a game, they'll get theirs. For the rest of us its a struggle, and its not going to get any easier.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:08
#84495
Obama needs some tips on how to perform this operation for the American people. I hear Roman Polanski is returning, maybe he can give Obama some tips on getting the results with minimal pain (no offense to the victim).
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:40
#84517
I can't believe no one has mentioned the FairTax yet....or did I miss it?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:44
#84521
Great idea. This will fit nicely into the list of Intolerable Acts part deux.
Mr. President, does this sound familiar?
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:59
#84540
"it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government"
Ok dude, you go first.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:54
#84535
I have a crystal ball. I see a big hole in the ground...and Democrats climbing in.
I also see Mitt Romney somewhere off in 2012...and the real right-wing nazi agenda put into full mode at that point.
go Ron Paul or anybody or anything else other than a donkey or an elephant.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 19:58
#84538
Well, let's then implement a single-payer healthcare system or, at a minimum provide a public option. Either of these will drive down medical costs significantly from the current line-the-pockets-of-insurance-CEOs-while-providing-the-worst-care-outcomes -in-the western-world-system and, voila!, no sales tax needed.
Now wasn't that easy?
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 22:41
#84761
Because if it's one thing that a government with $12 trillion in debt can afford, it's to provide complete and total healthcare for 310 million people. Uncle Ben just needs to print more--voila, problem solved!
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 23:03
#84789
We could make the Doctors/nurses work OT for no extra pay to care for the millions of new patients too.
Patients can help by sharing beds. They can also commit suicide to make space for healthier patients.
The drug and medical supply companies will have to produce with no extra compensation so that costs can be contained. It'll be tough but we can do it
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 07:50
#85028
Uh, sure - because the Government never overspends their budgets, and has a wonderful track record of controlling costs in medicine (AHEMmedicareisbrokeAHEMmedicaidisbeyondbrokeAHEM), and because political decisions made with an eye toward the next election are always better when your life, or at least health, is on the line.
Yep. Easy.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 20:05
#84549
Let's tax foreign nationals living abroad.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 20:13
#84559
I'm waiting for a national real estate tax. The Feds could glom off the local assessment records.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 23:00
#84787
We're getting there. State of California has robbed my city of $10million, in fact they're raiding every city.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 22:26
#84733
The VAT is going to generate a hell of a savings as we don't spend money on anything unnecessary.
Kinda hard to collect good amount of tax on Milk, Cornbread and Beef.
Anything else like Insurance? Hah. We will just toss the policies away and go on without em and put the premiums away along with the other savings.
on Wed, 09/30/2009 - 23:34
#84827
There is no way Obama would support such a proposal. After all, he said he would not raise taxes on any family making less than $250,000/yr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y
You sir owe President Obama an apology!
<sarcasm off>
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 00:01
#84852
Around 40% of working Americans currently don't owe federal taxes on their income and have no skin in the game. Is it any wonder Congress doesn't feel the heat from the electorate to spend prudently and within our country's means when this type of situation exists? I think everyone needs to have some skin in the game - period.
Sadly, the chances of making this happen short of a *real* financial meltdown are slim to none. As usually, the freight train that has been coming down the track fo the last 40+ years will have to wreck and do lots of damage before the political will for real change exists.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 09:00
#85097
Obama represents an interregnum between the stealth expansion of the federal bureaucracy (Cheney/Bush expanded the size of the bureaucracy more than at any time since Ronald Reagan), off-budget supplemental financing tricks to keep the American people from seeing the true costs of the Bush wars and the outright authoritarian system that will follow after the Democrats by their being beholden to the FIRE sector have so pissed off the few people who do vote for them that they will go the way of the Whigs.
Good riddance.
but let's stop pretending that the huge deficits we face have been caused by the programs Obama introduced. You don't wage two wars and drastically cut taxes, while sending jobs overseas, and expect to have anything except outrageous deficits.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 13:20
#85465
Most of you whiners need to get a grip.
1. I agree a sales tax is not what's needed. It discourages consumption.
2. As much as you whiners complain about paying taxes, you then complain MORE when bridges collapse and regulators can't do their job. Well, which one is it?
The U.S. has *serious* problems and you morons are standing around calling each other names. This only contributes to the worsening situation.
Grow up.
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 11:11
#86570
Exactly.
If you wanted deregulation, he buddy, your friends on wall street couldn't cheat the system forever.
If you were gung-ho to bomb Iraq,(and now Iran), I better not see you at any 'Tea Parties'
Oh, and lets let corporations rape the environment since it'll help my current portfolio.. that will never cost our kids anything?
Most of you people are pure hypocrites.
on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 08:18
#97426
Hmmm, I just wonder if you were organizing a partys about "lax" regulation over the past few years or just joined the party after the mess so you could whine about it.. And the only reason these "evil" corporations exist is because "we" buy their products. We stop buying.. they go away... So at the very least anyone that drives a car is a hypocrate if they are bitching about the oil companies and anyone that has a kid is contributing to global warming or climate change or whatever they are calling it this week. So talk to me when you stop using oil and stop procreating and stop acting like a spoiled entitled moron.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 14:43
#85577
Channel Zero, the problems you mention are good reasons why we shouldn't let government run anything. If you think government action is a "cure" for the "serious" problems, why didn't they prevent them in the first place? A: They don't have a clue what the problems are.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 14:51
#85594
Tax revolt would not cost one drop of blood yet would destroy the beast
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 15:40
#85676
Some listening music for this post - http://bit.ly/6lGUB
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 16:02
#85713
"... Yes we can! ..."
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 16:04
#85718
Everyone needs to start a tax revolt in this country to stop funding the Feds and the State governments. It should start just like the Tea Parties and 9-12 demonstration in D.C. People across the country should start meeting in large groups and start demanding their employers stop withholding their taxes (acting as unconstitutional back-up withholding agents). Everyone should stop filing tax returns. Since about 35 Million are filing and paying taxes, I have to question: "Are you stupid?" When the other 3/4 of the population doesn't file, why the hell are you still filing?
If everyone stopped or substantially reduced paying and filing, the government would stop operating. I don't see a problem with that at all.
on Tue, 10/06/2009 - 15:10
#90593
I agree. Everyone needs to stop filing but then, who is going first? Back in the early 1980s I was one of the first to to do just as you suggest, right down to suing my employer for not honoring my request to get out of the way and not with hold wages for tax. I went to Federal District tax court and got stomped. No David against Goliath victory here. I don't really regret doing what I did nor what it cost me monetarily but I was disappointed that what I thought was the beginning of a "movement" turned out to be a "You go first---I'm right behind you." thing. I don't know if we can get enough education to prevail in court against the IRS but get enough people to quit filing and it will get either to expensive to collect or to dangerous.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 16:12
#85731
There is a bill that has been before Congress for several years called the Fair Tax Amendment. It uses a study by the Cato Institute and proposes abolishing the 16th (?)amendment that allows federal income tax and instituting a national sales tax. It also replaces all the income from SS, Medicare, Estate and Income tax with a 22-26% sales tax. Families would register with SS for a monthly rebate check for the amount of tax on the national poverty level for that size family and take home 100% of their earnings (less optional items like insurance, 401K, etc.). This would immediately spur consumer spending as they would have the SS check plus 100% of their paycheck to spend; these total more then the cost plus incremental tax.
Over a period of time, product costs would drop to reflect the lack of hidden taxes (payroll taxes, income taxes, estate taxes, etc.) that producers have to pass on at each stage of a products origin. The the rate could also drop. An added benefit is that while very few illegal aliens or drug dealers pay income taxes, they all buy food, clothes, cars, homes, etc and would be sucked into the tax system. Since there is an estimated 40% of GDP in the underground (black) market this would add a significant boost to tax collection. (If you're not legal you would not receive the subsidy check from SS and would wind up paying tax on all of your spending.) This also gives an incentive for exporters as there is no sales tax on exports, thereby making US goods and services more competitive in the world market.
BUT, this makes too much sense to ever go anywhere!
M. Churchman
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 17:18
#85826
let them pass al the stupid taxes they want, when the dollar finally collapses, which it must eventually. because the rest of the world will grow tired of are fiat, unbacked currency and say enough is enough. then the real fun will begin. since our paper dollar will become useless. and you cant tax something that is useless. hence goodby goverement and welcome to the new world order run by these banksters( a.k.a. fraudsters )
best bet!! by gold and silver especially silver for stockpiling, also guns and lead, and plenty of m.r.e.'s.
( a.k.a. meals ready to eat, that last a long time stored in freezers) problem solved since the whole country will be broke, and dont have to worry about being thrown out of your house or apartment. ah! ah! yes the wonders of poltical and beauracratic mentality.
thats right folks the politicians and the beauracrats truly are the missing link between man and monkey, that the evolveisnist have been looking for, its that they have been looking for them in the wrong places. they have been hideing out in washington all this time and put on suits to disguise who they truly are.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 19:09
#85950
How bout this? Since the Iraqi war was for the Iraqi people, how bout those people pay for their own liberation? Instead of sicking the IRS on this country's own, how about sending the IRS overseas to Iraq to collect those dollars spent? And letting the Iraqi security forces protect the Iraqi citizens while we're at it.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 21:28
#86064
With yesterday's tax announcement in California, I thought I would have to make plans to move my manufacturing business out of the state. Now it looks like I just need to move out of the Country. Why did I bother immigrating from Germany. I just got my citizenship last year. If any of you are in California, please send emails to your representatives. I already sent an email around:
Since some of you are unfamiliar with a VAT (Value Added Tax) or Business Net Receipts Tax (BNRT), I though I would clarify. I was being facetious yesterday when I titled my email "Schwarzenegger Proposes a Tax Cut". Everyone needs to understand how this is a huge tax increase for most businesses and a hidden tax on the middle and lower income classes. The increased business taxes will be passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices and will result in job losses. Businesses will leave the state and reduce the taxable base. Most businesses will pay significantly higher taxes, even in years that they have large losses. This tax, if enacted, will have a huge impact on our tiny little manufacturing company and, during loss years such as we are currently experiencing, could be the straw that breaks the camels back. It will substantially increase the cost of doing business in California and will drive more businesses out of the state rather than attract business to California. We already have a hard enough time competing with the rest of the world because of the high cost of living, high compensation and high administrative burden and taxes. Any labor-intensive or manufacturing business will be taxed heavily. A better name for this tax would be a labor or payroll tax. It would not be conducive to job creation in California. For those of you that have never heard of a VAT, net receipts are calculated as follows: a business adds up its gross receipts from the sale of goods and services and then deduct the goods and services they buy from other businesses. This is the "Net Receipts" number that is taxed by 4%. None of the sales of goods or services would be exempt from inclusion in the gross receipts number, even if the sales are for resale or sold to a tax-exempt organization such as the Federal government. Salaries/wages, employer payroll taxes, any interest paid on business loans and/or debentures, etc., are not deductible. I suspect that depreciation of equipment and facilities purchased prior to the effective date will also be non-deductible, but I am not sure. I guess I will have to read the bill if I can find the language online. Any labor intensive businesses that provide labor related services and all manufacturing businesses will have large, taxable "net receipts" under this approach every year. For example, here we buy aluminum, steel, machine oil, machine tools, office supplies, plating and anodizing services, screws and other small hardware, etc. However, since we do all of our own machining and assembly work, the majority of the cost of producing our products is the labor expense. At least very small businesses would be exempt, because the requirement to pay the tax would not be triggered until a business reached $500,000 in annual gross receipts. I would imagine that governments will be excluded. Perhaps they will also exclude some non-profit and for-profit businesses. Please pass this information along to everyone you know. People need to understand what this is and email their congressional members before it is too late. This is not an equitable tax. It penalized businesses that create numerous jobs. Restaurants, UPS/FedEx, day care, CPAs, doctors/dentists, all manufacturers, employment agencies, software businesses, plumbers, electricians, and repair service providers, are just a few small examples. In other words, it will just raise the prices that these types of services have to charge. And for those of us that compete on a global scale, like our company, and therefore cannot raise their prices, it will drive them out of the state or out of business. My business partner and I had already discussed moving our company out of the state earlier this year when we say the ballot initiatives listed for the May election. Fortunately they were defeated with a wide margin. Last Monday, on the day of the commission’s final public meeting, Richard Pomp, a tax policy expert appointed to the commission, sent a memo detailing what he saw as a litany of problems with the BNRT, including that fact it would encourage businesses to outsource jobs to independent contractors because payments to contractors could be written off while payroll costs could not. Assembly Speaker Karen Bass said it would disproportionately tax knowledge-based industries, which “everyone agrees is the best thing California has going for it.” She said the net receipts for a company such as Wal-Mart would be a much smaller percentage of gross receipts than a company such as Oracle. While much of Wal-Mart’s expenses are buying inventory, “most of the value of what Oracle sells is the brainpower of its highly compensated, highly skilled work force.” “What type of businesses do we want to encourage in the California economy?” Lenny Goldberg, president of the California Tax Reform Association, notes the BNRT would compound the shifting of the tax burden to the poor and middle-class by effectively taxing rents. Especially since landlords could not subtract interest payments on their property from their gross receipts, they would be forced to raise rents to cover the new taxes, he said. At least a few in our legislature have some brains. I suspect the rest think the public is stupid and will not get it, that this is a way to make the public think they are getting a tax cut because the individual tax rate is decreasing, when in reality the state, at least temporarily, will collect more tax revenue than ever and the government will continue to grow out of control, disproportionately with the population of the state. Unfortunately there are those that will never realize that they are paying more taxes because the taxes will be hidden in the price increases, tax-induced inflation. Or possibly, much of the legislature is handicapped with tunnel vision or near sightedness and cannot see the big picture and the "unintended consequences". If this bill goes through, the only businesses it makes sense to have would be a small business with less than $500K in revenue or a pass-through distributor/dealer operation with low overhead, utilizing a just-in-time system, fulfilling orders by having suppliers drop ship directly to the customer. Retailers/distributors with low overhead can make astronomical profits and get away with significantly lower taxes than they are currently subject to. CPA's will practically have to pay the tax amount on their full gross receipts.
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 07:51
#86239
California Girl, the sales tax can be more complicated than the Federal income tax. In Florida there is a different rule for practically every item. And numerous exemptions.
California needs to cut out the fat, but the people dont seem to have the will.
When too many people are in on the "take" there is no one left to make the donuts.
Move your business to Texas.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 21:29
#86067
We are so screwed !
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 21:31
#86069
Here is an idea for Podesta and the rest of the crap heads...stick it up your ass till it comes out your nose you god dam ass wipe commie shit head. Let's put a VAT on assinine ideas by stupid ruler wannabes and imbecilles that really believe the constitution authorizes a natiojnal tax on goods and services. If my language was not blunt enough, then simply go to hell and dont come back.
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 21:35
#86071
Here is an idea for Podesta and the rest of the crap heads...stick it up your ass till it comes out your nose you god dam ass wipe commie shit head. Let's put a VAT on assinine ideas by stupid ruler wannabes and imbecilles that really believe the constitution authorizes a natiojnal tax on goods and services. If my language was not blunt enough, then simply go to hell and dont come back
on Thu, 10/01/2009 - 23:20
#86128
I wouldn't mind a consumer tax, but only if they get rid of the income tax (See fairtax.org). Here in Florida, there is no state income tax, only a sales tax on non food items. That system works great
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 07:34
#86226
NO TAX = NO TAX = NO TAX
There is no need for any tax for in the traditional sense, no sales tax, no income tax, no property tax, no death duties etc etc.
In the short term, all this can be replaced by a very small Transaction Tax or levy that would generate more money than the fiscal budget needed. Every time money moves through the banking system this Transaction levy would automatically be applied to the movement and would be effectively be collected by the banks as they collect other forms of "charges" in realtime.
Then all those parasitic Tax entities could be put to real and useful work in the Social Care systems etc, or perform some other value to society.
So it's not about Tax its about controlling you and its happening right under your noses.
Wake up USA and the rest of the world. What you are experiencing is life in an illusion, a form of "Matrix", an illusion, run the Elite.
Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.
Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.
Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.
Do it now!
MoonDog
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 07:46
#86236
Everyone knows the sales tax is a regressive tax, the poor pay more percentage wise than the rich. But if they start with a 0.5% sales tax it might pass. They can raise it later.
Congresspersons do like their pork (presidents too). Maybe we can add in an Olympics surtax for Chicago (a minor .01% - you wont even feel it, and it will be good for our nation).
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 10:58
#86553
We are witnessing the begining of the end. The government is repeating all the mistakes that caused the Great Depression - trade restrictions, higher taxes, etc.
We have an economy increasingly dominated by people who produce nothing. Everything is becoming overhead to be paid by fewer and fewer productive citizens.
Who realized that Bush was so bad that he would be causing these problems almost a year into Obama's administration?
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 13:54
#86831
A comsumption tax has always made sense to me. Lets phase out the IRS and return America to prosperity. By doing this we will dramatically increase exports and return jobs to the United States. Below is an excerpt from the FairTax.org website.
"The FairTax improves the international competitiveness of American producers.
Today, we have a tax system that remarkably subsidizes foreign-content vehicles, assisting
Korea, Japan, Germany, and others in competing against the American worker. How do we do
so? The U.S. government’s failure to remove the tax on exports (as do the other 29 OECD
nations) creates a large and artificial relative price advantage (estimated to be over 18 percent)
for foreign goods, in both the U.S. market and abroad.11 A recent MIT report states that the U.S.
failure to recognize and confront this problem costs us more than $100 billion in exports
annually.12 In effect, the U.S. tax system is distorting the international marketplace and is
literally moving good jobs out of this country at a devastating and unsustainable pace. The
FairTax remedies this by taxing foreign-produced goods as U.S.-produced goods are taxed and
by exempting exports fully from taxation, thereby restoring a level playing field for U.S. and
foreign-produced goods.'
Let's phase out the IRS and return the USA to Prosperity!
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 13:55
#86833
A comsumption tax has always made sense to me. Lets phase out the IRS and return America to prosperity. By doing this we will dramatically increase exports and return jobs to the United States. Below is an excerpt from the FairTax.org website.
"The FairTax improves the international competitiveness of American producers.
Today, we have a tax system that remarkably subsidizes foreign-content vehicles, assisting
Korea, Japan, Germany, and others in competing against the American worker. How do we do
so? The U.S. government’s failure to remove the tax on exports (as do the other 29 OECD
nations) creates a large and artificial relative price advantage (estimated to be over 18 percent)
for foreign goods, in both the U.S. market and abroad.11 A recent MIT report states that the U.S.
failure to recognize and confront this problem costs us more than $100 billion in exports
annually.12 In effect, the U.S. tax system is distorting the international marketplace and is
literally moving good jobs out of this country at a devastating and unsustainable pace. The
FairTax remedies this by taxing foreign-produced goods as U.S.-produced goods are taxed and
by exempting exports fully from taxation, thereby restoring a level playing field for U.S. and
foreign-produced goods.'
Let's phase out the IRS and return the USA to Prosperity!
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 13:57
#86837
We will even collect taxes from drug dealers and prostitutes!
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 14:07
#86858
Why not put the VAT only on imported goods or better yet on goods that used to be manufactured here but since someone wanted a huge bonus decided to move its production offshore (i.e. Thomasville Furniture)? I wouldn't call it a VAT though, I would call it a market access fee (to avoid all those annoying WTO issues).
I would also add an $5,000 per container Nuclear inspection fee for every container coming from China until they force North Korea and Iran to end their weapons program.
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 19:19
#87263
I wish they would hurry up and come for our guns. I think that would fix most problems the US has :).
on Fri, 10/02/2009 - 22:35
#87406
I agree with 82553' comment.
I have lived in 2 different countries. Australia and Papua New Guinea. They brought in GST( goods and services) 10% tax. What happened in PNG was the competition finally drove the price back down when companies finally went back to their old margins. The tax system worked out fairer but the taxes went up.
The reason it was good here was the cheating on the taxes was never controlled near as much as in a western country.
In favour of the gst tax. You claim back all gst paid before lodging your payment on your sales.
Fortunately for us the tax did not increase as it has in the UK and other European countries. WHen I was first in the UK it was 12%. Last time I checked it was around 23%.
It stopped the cheating I competed against while importing from overseas of price transfering and fake invoices. Under charged invoices for duty payments made it very hard for me to compete against unscrupulous businesses.
Against the customs tax. Usually the goverment raises again and again as mentioned above.
Government can not stop the cheating on tax free services as people swop work for landed costs goods or other work.
The higher the tax the more likely this is to happen.
If for instant I was dishonest and to take goods from my company warehouse or services and swop them for work or goods done for me personally. Write them off as lost or stolen I would save personal tax top end which starts at around US 15,000 per annum 48%( now dropped to 42%) + 2% training levee. + 10 gst. One is looking at close to 60% or 31.5% company and provision for the increase of next years tax plus 10% which is around 42% tax.
When a goverment gets so greedy that they expect the company owners not to do this there is something wrong especially as the wholesale margin is around 15% and the indent 5% retail 30%( we do not make that much money due to the cost of stealing and security and visa hidden costs). Carrying this and paying more and more tax as the services disappear does not make any sense.
THis is why I decided to sell up and not to face the potholed roads through out the city. Rapes, murders which occur on a nearly daily basis and incompetience in government departments as well as avoiding doing anything with a government due to lazy officials trying to get bribesat every level( I actually succeeded in not paying any bribes which was one of my personal life challenges and extremely difficult to achieve).
If I stayed and paid for things in kind I could make a fortune dishonestly. I managed to make some money honestly from a very hot real estate market which surged around 700 to 1200% property values as well as a 30 to 50% foreign exchange gain. Depending on if which currency US$ or other.
on Sat, 10/03/2009 - 18:12
#87864
What the US needs to do is create it's own debt-free, interest-free money. Too bad that whenever someone does this, they get shot.
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 08:19
#88133
Once again, Obama proposes another means of redistributing wealth. This is his trademark. Every spending bill he has proposed is essentially a "spread a wealth" plan by stealth.
Foreget about an economic recovery. Obama and his Dem cronies don't want it. The have no interest in economics. I studied economics, and nowhere did it recommend giving priority to redistribution of income. This is Marxism, not capitalism.
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 10:36
#88193
Has ANYONE just thought of freezing spending where it is with no new spending on anything for a minimum of 5 years? Do that and we will have NO deficit and actually be in the black once again for the first time since WW2 (and no Clinton did NOPT balance the budget nor leave a surplus according to the US treasury and the IRS. What he DID do was count tax receipts for 10 years after he left office and include this in his smoke and mirrors trickery. Reagan DID raise taxes but only because Tip O'Neill and the rest of the Democrats promised to cut taxes $2. for every $1. they spent...and then refused to do it according to the records in the Library of Congress)
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 13:13
#88295
You can't get rid of parasites until the body dies. Ask anyone who has herpes. Our country will die before any reforms turn this nation back to its healthier self.
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 16:13
#88374
Anonymous, do you have a job? or are you making all these posts while on the job? You really need to get a life! Or you won't have a job for much longer, as employers hate having employees who screw off on the job by misusing the office computer.
Mike
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 16:29
#88384
Folks, when are we going to dig our heels in and say enough is enough?
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 16:29
#88385
Anonymous, you need to get a life and stop obsessing. I hate Obama but I don't spend all day and half the night making posts about it. Instead I buy ammo, clean and oil my guns, and try to stockpile necessities for the day that the $dollar tanks. When that happens, Obama needs to go into hiding, as a few million people will show up in D.C., with guns instead of protest signs.
Mike
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 19:45
#88461
A national sales tax would do away with
under-the-table income's free ride on
taxes.
Don't file, no problem, you will
still pay.
Do you really think the local drug dealer
will stop buying his caddy in order to
cut his taxes?
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 22:20
#88537
Ok...I'm a businessman.
Now let's see.
Under Baby Bush, the national debt more the doubled.
Under Baby Bush he cut taxes but never vetoed any spending bill.
He gave the Republican controlled Congress and Senate what ever they wanted.
His tax cuts will last until 2010 which is next year.
So explain to me just how this national debt is to be paid off?
A government generates revenue through taxes. Now while I don't have an MBA (I personally don't see the need for one..) Please explain to me just HOW the US Government is supposed to pay off all this national debt that was generated under Mr. Bush and company with the reduced "revenues" and increased spending?
Or maybe we need to review basic accounting?
There were 8 years to stop this but nothing was done.
Just like with Afghanistan, there were 7 years to put things right and it was made a side show.
So now let's face the ugly truth, we have to pay the "piper."
on Sun, 10/04/2009 - 23:53
#88581
Here's how to balance the budget.
Slash the budget. Stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bring the troops home. Pretend that we won, if that makes you feel better. Bring the troops home from NATO, Japan, South Korea, and everyplace else. Reduce the military to what is needed to defend our own country, not everybody else's.
Eliminate the Department of Education. It didn't exist when I went to high school. Public schools were better then than they are now. Repeal the Medicare prescription drug program. Let people import cheaper drugs from Canada. Cancel that silly program to put a man on Mars. Stunts like that should only be done by countries with surpluses. Stop all bail outs and "stimulus" programs.
The truth is that 2/3rds of the tax eaters in Washington, DC could die tomorrow and the rest of us wouldn't even miss them.
on Mon, 10/05/2009 - 02:12
#88621
Why would anyone listen to this article first he says that his numbers are better than the governments? Does he have proof no he doesn't. Then he states the information is coming out Wednesday if he knows that why doesn't he post it now? Last but not least why would you read something that is designed to get you to buy other programs that are listed on this site and believe it is anything more than the same type of sales garbage that got this country into this mess in the first place. WAKE UP STOP being Sheep led to the emptying of your pockets while they tell you you are safe with them or following them. Wake up stand on your own
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 15:59
#91993
It is amazing to me that republicans create policies like no child left behind. Which they dont fund and put the problem of paying for it on the local property owners and clam they didn't raise your taxes. No matter how you look at it any policy changes that require more funds taxes will have to collected to pay for it. Maybe if we cover health care for the poor we can stop giving them earned income credit. I bet if you look at how much is given out in earned income credit it would be about 350 billion x 10 = 3.5 trillion plenty to cover the health care. Especially since most children of poor and low income families are covered already.
on Wed, 10/07/2009 - 17:26
#92127
Do EU nations also have national income taxes, as we do?
So, we'll have a VAT to expedite the destruction of the American middle and lower upper classes. Nat'l sales tax on top of income and other taxes is our worst nightmare.
Great Britain lost the "Great" after WW II when pound sterling lost its reserve currency status. Huge debt spending from two world wars, plus out-of-control Keynesianism and socialism, killed the British economy and monetary unit. Same thing is happening to USA now.
Gerald Celente is right---we're in the opening stages of the Second American Revolution. Adding a VAT will just add fuel to the fire.
It's surrealistic to watch us rearrange the chairs on USS Titanic's deck as she slides beneath the waves....
on Tue, 12/29/2009 - 23:20
#177461
Well lets just increase a true national sales tax of 23% and get rid of all income taxes, capital gains and death taxes; fairtax.org has the whole thing explained. Through your support into it so corporations will stop paying accountants $750 for every $100 collected by the government. A 23% sales tax would lower our total taxes except on the higest consumers top 10% of the US populations and stop allowing corporations like Microsoft to incorportate in Ireleand where the tax is just 1%. Think of all those people who pay cash for things without paying their fair share of taxes finally they would be contributing to the government coffers. Join fairtax.org today every one who joins will lower the national debt more than all of their taxes collected in a lifetime.