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A National Sales Tax is Coming

Econophile's picture




 

 

By Jeff Harding of The Daily Capitalist

The “Center for American Progress” is the best example of an oxymoronish name that I can think of. This is a “progressive” (socialist) “think tank” (another misleading term) lead by John Podesta, a former Clinton Chief of Staff and Obama adviser.

They are coming out with a report on Wednesday that will recommend that:

[T]he administration should consider a tax on consumption, such as a value-added tax [VAT] system similar to that in use in the European Union. Mr. Podesta suggested that its impact should be limited to protect lower-income people, who otherwise might be hit particularly hard.


The center’s president and chief executive, John Podesta, who is an Obama adviser, said the administration should consider a tax on consumption, such as a value-added tax system similar to that in use in the European Union. Mr. Podesta suggested that its impact should be limited to protect lower-income people, who otherwise might be hit particularly hard.


“As progressives we need to debate the policy merits [of] a range of options, including designing a small and more progressive value-added tax,” Mr. Podesta said in a statement Tuesday.

Apparently even they recognize that you just can’t tax the rich enough to cover the Administration’s vast spending programs:

In order to pay for the national health care plan, the Democrats were already planning to impose a tax surcharge of between 1.0% and 1.5% on those whose income is $350,000 or more. I did the numbers on this and I came up with 300,000 lucky taxpayers who will be burdened with the privilege of paying for our health care (the Democrats say it’s more like 1,000,000 taxpayers, but I think I’m closer). Now it looks as if the regressives agree with me.

The report, which will be released on Wednesday, said the administration can’t rely on taxing richer Americans and companies to reduce the deficit to sustainable levels by 2014 because those groups would see 40% tax increases.

Guess what else is happening on Wednesday? Just a coincidence I’m sure, but the Volker Panel on How to Raise Taxes Without Anyone Noticing is meeting as well. The meeting will be streamed live starting at 12:30 if you wish to tune in to their public deliberations.

predicted in March of this year that the Administration would look to a VAT to raise taxes:

My guess is that it will include non-food retail sales and they will add services (information, professional, technical and scientific, administrative and support, waste management and remediation, but excluding medical services). The services aspect is important because this will skew the tax more to corporations and upper income taxpayers. …[Obama] will structure it so that low income people will get a refund of taxes paid. The refund will be phased out as income increases.

 

In 2008 retail sales (excluding food) were about $4 trillion. Services in 2007 were another $2 trillion. Let’s say they need to raise $1 trillion over the next 4 fiscal years, or $250 billion a year. That would require a 4.5% national sales tax. In Europe they call this a value added tax (VAT) and the rate in the E.U. is about 15%.

Volker already said he thinks the VAT is a good idea. No surprise there; that’s why Obama chose him.

So, let’s see. They want to stimulate consumer spending to revive the economy. How do we get people to part with their money instead of socking it away in the bank? I know: let’s tax consumption. Brilliant.

 

 

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Tue, 11/16/2010 - 10:30 | 730560 MaldelBot
MaldelBot's picture

This will never happen

 

1) The US government would never institute a policy that is better for poor people than rich people (or at least on par).

2) They believe in the flawed Keynesian model where spending money you don't have on shit you don't need= an economy.

 

The best model would be to tax consumption and not labor. It's all ass backwards. The hostile elite really got their claws in the ol' US of A.

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 09:59 | 730388 healthelectron
healthelectron's picture

ply all kinds of sling backpacks. We could also supply the hiking backpacks, so we could be called the hiking backpack manufacturer, hiking backpack supplier and hiking backpack factory.

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Wed, 12/30/2009 - 00:20 | 177461 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Well lets just increase a true national sales tax of 23% and get rid of all income taxes, capital gains and death taxes; fairtax.org has the whole thing explained. Through your support into it so corporations will stop paying accountants $750 for every $100 collected by the government. A 23% sales tax would lower our total taxes except on the higest consumers top 10% of the US populations and stop allowing corporations like Microsoft to incorportate in Ireleand where the tax is just 1%. Think of all those people who pay cash for things without paying their fair share of taxes finally they would be contributing to the government coffers. Join fairtax.org today every one who joins will lower the national debt more than all of their taxes collected in a lifetime.

Wed, 10/07/2009 - 18:26 | 92127 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Do EU nations also have national income taxes, as we do?

So, we'll have a VAT to expedite the destruction of the American middle and lower upper classes. Nat'l sales tax on top of income and other taxes is our worst nightmare.

Great Britain lost the "Great" after WW II when pound sterling lost its reserve currency status. Huge debt spending from two world wars, plus out-of-control Keynesianism and socialism, killed the British economy and monetary unit. Same thing is happening to USA now.

Gerald Celente is right---we're in the opening stages of the Second American Revolution. Adding a VAT will just add fuel to the fire.

It's surrealistic to watch us rearrange the chairs on USS Titanic's deck as she slides beneath the waves....

Wed, 10/07/2009 - 16:59 | 91993 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

It is amazing to me that republicans create policies like no child left behind. Which they dont fund and put the problem of paying for it on the local property owners and clam they didn't raise your taxes. No matter how you look at it any policy changes that require more funds taxes will have to collected to pay for it. Maybe if we cover health care for the poor we can stop giving them earned income credit. I bet if you look at how much is given out in earned income credit it would be about 350 billion x 10 = 3.5 trillion plenty to cover the health care. Especially since most children of poor and low income families are covered already.

Mon, 10/05/2009 - 03:12 | 88621 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Why would anyone listen to this article first he says that his numbers are better than the governments? Does he have proof no he doesn't. Then he states the information is coming out Wednesday if he knows that why doesn't he post it now? Last but not least why would you read something that is designed to get you to buy other programs that are listed on this site and believe it is anything more than the same type of sales garbage that got this country into this mess in the first place. WAKE UP STOP being Sheep led to the emptying of your pockets while they tell you you are safe with them or following them. Wake up stand on your own

Mon, 10/05/2009 - 00:53 | 88581 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Here's how to balance the budget.

Slash the budget. Stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bring the troops home. Pretend that we won, if that makes you feel better. Bring the troops home from NATO, Japan, South Korea, and everyplace else. Reduce the military to what is needed to defend our own country, not everybody else's.

Eliminate the Department of Education. It didn't exist when I went to high school. Public schools were better then than they are now. Repeal the Medicare prescription drug program. Let people import cheaper drugs from Canada. Cancel that silly program to put a man on Mars. Stunts like that should only be done by countries with surpluses. Stop all bail outs and "stimulus" programs.

The truth is that 2/3rds of the tax eaters in Washington, DC could die tomorrow and the rest of us wouldn't even miss them.

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 23:20 | 88537 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Ok...I'm a businessman.
Now let's see.
Under Baby Bush, the national debt more the doubled.
Under Baby Bush he cut taxes but never vetoed any spending bill.
He gave the Republican controlled Congress and Senate what ever they wanted.
His tax cuts will last until 2010 which is next year.
So explain to me just how this national debt is to be paid off?
A government generates revenue through taxes. Now while I don't have an MBA (I personally don't see the need for one..) Please explain to me just HOW the US Government is supposed to pay off all this national debt that was generated under Mr. Bush and company with the reduced "revenues" and increased spending?
Or maybe we need to review basic accounting?
There were 8 years to stop this but nothing was done.
Just like with Afghanistan, there were 7 years to put things right and it was made a side show.
So now let's face the ugly truth, we have to pay the "piper."

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 20:45 | 88461 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

A national sales tax would do away with
under-the-table income's free ride on
taxes.
Don't file, no problem, you will
still pay.
Do you really think the local drug dealer
will stop buying his caddy in order to
cut his taxes?

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 17:29 | 88385 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Anonymous, you need to get a life and stop obsessing. I hate Obama but I don't spend all day and half the night making posts about it. Instead I buy ammo, clean and oil my guns, and try to stockpile necessities for the day that the $dollar tanks. When that happens, Obama needs to go into hiding, as a few million people will show up in D.C., with guns instead of protest signs.
Mike

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 17:29 | 88384 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Folks, when are we going to dig our heels in and say enough is enough?

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 17:13 | 88374 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Anonymous, do you have a job? or are you making all these posts while on the job? You really need to get a life! Or you won't have a job for much longer, as employers hate having employees who screw off on the job by misusing the office computer.
Mike

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 14:13 | 88295 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

You can't get rid of parasites until the body dies. Ask anyone who has herpes. Our country will die before any reforms turn this nation back to its healthier self.

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 11:36 | 88193 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Has ANYONE just thought of freezing spending where it is with no new spending on anything for a minimum of 5 years? Do that and we will have NO deficit and actually be in the black once again for the first time since WW2 (and no Clinton did NOPT balance the budget nor leave a surplus according to the US treasury and the IRS. What he DID do was count tax receipts for 10 years after he left office and include this in his smoke and mirrors trickery. Reagan DID raise taxes but only because Tip O'Neill and the rest of the Democrats promised to cut taxes $2. for every $1. they spent...and then refused to do it according to the records in the Library of Congress)

Sun, 10/04/2009 - 09:19 | 88133 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Once again, Obama proposes another means of redistributing wealth. This is his trademark. Every spending bill he has proposed is essentially a "spread a wealth" plan by stealth.

Foreget about an economic recovery. Obama and his Dem cronies don't want it. The have no interest in economics. I studied economics, and nowhere did it recommend giving priority to redistribution of income. This is Marxism, not capitalism.

Sat, 10/03/2009 - 19:12 | 87864 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What the US needs to do is create it's own debt-free, interest-free money. Too bad that whenever someone does this, they get shot.

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 23:35 | 87406 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I agree with 82553' comment.
I have lived in 2 different countries. Australia and Papua New Guinea. They brought in GST( goods and services) 10% tax. What happened in PNG was the competition finally drove the price back down when companies finally went back to their old margins. The tax system worked out fairer but the taxes went up.
The reason it was good here was the cheating on the taxes was never controlled near as much as in a western country.
In favour of the gst tax. You claim back all gst paid before lodging your payment on your sales.
Fortunately for us the tax did not increase as it has in the UK and other European countries. WHen I was first in the UK it was 12%. Last time I checked it was around 23%.
It stopped the cheating I competed against while importing from overseas of price transfering and fake invoices. Under charged invoices for duty payments made it very hard for me to compete against unscrupulous businesses.
Against the customs tax. Usually the goverment raises again and again as mentioned above.
Government can not stop the cheating on tax free services as people swop work for landed costs goods or other work.
The higher the tax the more likely this is to happen.
If for instant I was dishonest and to take goods from my company warehouse or services and swop them for work or goods done for me personally. Write them off as lost or stolen I would save personal tax top end which starts at around US 15,000 per annum 48%( now dropped to 42%) + 2% training levee. + 10 gst. One is looking at close to 60% or 31.5% company and provision for the increase of next years tax plus 10% which is around 42% tax.
When a goverment gets so greedy that they expect the company owners not to do this there is something wrong especially as the wholesale margin is around 15% and the indent 5% retail 30%( we do not make that much money due to the cost of stealing and security and visa hidden costs). Carrying this and paying more and more tax as the services disappear does not make any sense.
THis is why I decided to sell up and not to face the potholed roads through out the city. Rapes, murders which occur on a nearly daily basis and incompetience in government departments as well as avoiding doing anything with a government due to lazy officials trying to get bribesat every level( I actually succeeded in not paying any bribes which was one of my personal life challenges and extremely difficult to achieve).
If I stayed and paid for things in kind I could make a fortune dishonestly. I managed to make some money honestly from a very hot real estate market which surged around 700 to 1200% property values as well as a 30 to 50% foreign exchange gain. Depending on if which currency US$ or other.

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 20:19 | 87263 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I wish they would hurry up and come for our guns. I think that would fix most problems the US has :).

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 15:07 | 86858 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Why not put the VAT only on imported goods or better yet on goods that used to be manufactured here but since someone wanted a huge bonus decided to move its production offshore (i.e. Thomasville Furniture)? I wouldn't call it a VAT though, I would call it a market access fee (to avoid all those annoying WTO issues).

I would also add an $5,000 per container Nuclear inspection fee for every container coming from China until they force North Korea and Iran to end their weapons program.

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 14:57 | 86837 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

We will even collect taxes from drug dealers and prostitutes!

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 14:55 | 86833 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

A comsumption tax has always made sense to me. Lets phase out the IRS and return America to prosperity. By doing this we will dramatically increase exports and return jobs to the United States. Below is an excerpt from the FairTax.org website.

"The FairTax improves the international competitiveness of American producers.
Today, we have a tax system that remarkably subsidizes foreign-content vehicles, assisting
Korea, Japan, Germany, and others in competing against the American worker. How do we do
so? The U.S. government’s failure to remove the tax on exports (as do the other 29 OECD
nations) creates a large and artificial relative price advantage (estimated to be over 18 percent)
for foreign goods, in both the U.S. market and abroad.11 A recent MIT report states that the U.S.
failure to recognize and confront this problem costs us more than $100 billion in exports
annually.12 In effect, the U.S. tax system is distorting the international marketplace and is
literally moving good jobs out of this country at a devastating and unsustainable pace. The
FairTax remedies this by taxing foreign-produced goods as U.S.-produced goods are taxed and
by exempting exports fully from taxation, thereby restoring a level playing field for U.S. and
foreign-produced goods.'

Let's phase out the IRS and return the USA to Prosperity!

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 14:54 | 86831 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

A comsumption tax has always made sense to me. Lets phase out the IRS and return America to prosperity. By doing this we will dramatically increase exports and return jobs to the United States. Below is an excerpt from the FairTax.org website.

"The FairTax improves the international competitiveness of American producers.
Today, we have a tax system that remarkably subsidizes foreign-content vehicles, assisting
Korea, Japan, Germany, and others in competing against the American worker. How do we do
so? The U.S. government’s failure to remove the tax on exports (as do the other 29 OECD
nations) creates a large and artificial relative price advantage (estimated to be over 18 percent)
for foreign goods, in both the U.S. market and abroad.11 A recent MIT report states that the U.S.
failure to recognize and confront this problem costs us more than $100 billion in exports
annually.12 In effect, the U.S. tax system is distorting the international marketplace and is
literally moving good jobs out of this country at a devastating and unsustainable pace. The
FairTax remedies this by taxing foreign-produced goods as U.S.-produced goods are taxed and
by exempting exports fully from taxation, thereby restoring a level playing field for U.S. and
foreign-produced goods.'

Let's phase out the IRS and return the USA to Prosperity!

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 11:58 | 86553 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

We are witnessing the begining of the end. The government is repeating all the mistakes that caused the Great Depression - trade restrictions, higher taxes, etc.

We have an economy increasingly dominated by people who produce nothing. Everything is becoming overhead to be paid by fewer and fewer productive citizens.

Who realized that Bush was so bad that he would be causing these problems almost a year into Obama's administration?

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 08:46 | 86236 River Tam
River Tam's picture

Everyone knows the sales tax is a regressive tax, the poor pay more percentage wise than the rich. But if they start with a 0.5% sales tax it might pass. They can raise it later.

Congresspersons do like their pork (presidents too). Maybe we can add in an Olympics surtax for Chicago (a minor .01% - you wont even feel it, and it will be good for our nation).

 

 

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 08:34 | 86226 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

NO TAX = NO TAX = NO TAX
There is no need for any tax for in the traditional sense, no sales tax, no income tax, no property tax, no death duties etc etc.

In the short term, all this can be replaced by a very small Transaction Tax or levy that would generate more money than the fiscal budget needed. Every time money moves through the banking system this Transaction levy would automatically be applied to the movement and would be effectively be collected by the banks as they collect other forms of "charges" in realtime.

Then all those parasitic Tax entities could be put to real and useful work in the Social Care systems etc, or perform some other value to society.

So it's not about Tax its about controlling you and its happening right under your noses.

Wake up USA and the rest of the world. What you are experiencing is life in an illusion, a form of "Matrix", an illusion, run the Elite.

Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.
Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.
Watch the video "Zeitgeist" and wake up to reality.

Do it now!

MoonDog

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 00:20 | 86128 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I wouldn't mind a consumer tax, but only if they get rid of the income tax (See fairtax.org). Here in Florida, there is no state income tax, only a sales tax on non food items. That system works great

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 22:35 | 86071 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Here is an idea for Podesta and the rest of the crap heads...stick it up your ass till it comes out your nose you god dam ass wipe commie shit head. Let's put a VAT on assinine ideas by stupid ruler wannabes and imbecilles that really believe the constitution authorizes a natiojnal tax on goods and services. If my language was not blunt enough, then simply go to hell and dont come back

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 22:31 | 86069 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Here is an idea for Podesta and the rest of the crap heads...stick it up your ass till it comes out your nose you god dam ass wipe commie shit head. Let's put a VAT on assinine ideas by stupid ruler wannabes and imbecilles that really believe the constitution authorizes a natiojnal tax on goods and services. If my language was not blunt enough, then simply go to hell and dont come back.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 22:29 | 86067 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

We are so screwed !

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 22:28 | 86064 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

With yesterday's tax announcement in California, I thought I would have to make plans to move my manufacturing business out of the state.  Now it looks like I just need to move out of the Country. Why did I bother immigrating from Germany. I just got my citizenship last year. If any of you are in California, please send emails to your representatives.  I already sent an email around:

Since some of you are unfamiliar with a VAT (Value Added Tax) or Business Net Receipts Tax (BNRT), I though I would clarify.  I was being facetious yesterday when I titled my email "Schwarzenegger Proposes a Tax Cut".  Everyone needs to understand how this is a huge tax increase for most businesses and a hidden tax on the middle and lower income classes.  The increased business taxes will be passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices and will result in job losses. Businesses will leave the state and reduce the taxable base. Most businesses will pay significantly higher taxes, even in years that they have large losses.    This tax, if enacted, will have a huge impact on our tiny little manufacturing company and, during loss years such as we are currently experiencing, could be the straw that breaks the camels back. It will substantially increase the cost of doing business in California and will drive more businesses out of the state rather than attract business to California. We already have a hard enough time competing with the rest of the world because of the high cost of living, high compensation and high administrative burden and taxes.  Any labor-intensive or manufacturing business will be taxed heavily.  A better name for this tax would be a labor or payroll tax.  It would not be conducive to job creation in California.   For those of you that have never heard of a VAT, net receipts are calculated as follows: a business adds up its gross receipts from the sale of goods and services and then deduct the goods and services they buy from other businesses.  This is the "Net Receipts" number that is taxed by 4%. None of the sales of goods or services would be exempt from inclusion in the gross receipts number, even if the sales are for resale or sold to a tax-exempt organization such as the Federal government.  Salaries/wages, employer payroll taxes, any interest paid on business loans and/or debentures, etc., are not deductible.  I suspect that depreciation of equipment and facilities purchased prior to the effective date will also be non-deductible, but I am not sure.  I guess I will have to read the bill if I can find the language online. Any labor intensive businesses that provide labor related services and all manufacturing businesses will have large, taxable "net receipts" under this approach every year.   For example, here we buy aluminum, steel, machine oil, machine tools, office supplies, plating and anodizing services, screws and other small hardware, etc.  However, since we do all of our own machining and assembly work, the majority of the cost of producing our products is the labor expense.    At least very small businesses would be exempt, because the requirement to pay the tax would not be triggered until a business reached $500,000 in annual gross receipts.  I would imagine that governments will be excluded.  Perhaps they will also exclude some non-profit and for-profit businesses.    Please pass this information along to everyone you know.  People need to understand what this is and email their congressional members before it is too late.  This is not an equitable tax.  It penalized businesses that create numerous jobs.  Restaurants, UPS/FedEx, day care, CPAs, doctors/dentists, all manufacturers, employment agencies, software businesses, plumbers, electricians, and repair service providers, are just a few small examples. In other words, it will just raise the prices that these types of services have to charge.  And for those of us that compete on a global scale, like our company, and therefore cannot raise their prices, it will drive them out of the state or out of business.  My business partner and I had already discussed moving our company out of the state earlier this year when we say the ballot initiatives listed for the May election.  Fortunately they were defeated with a wide margin.    Last Monday, on the day of the commission’s final public meeting, Richard Pomp, a tax policy expert appointed to the commission, sent a memo detailing what he saw as a litany of problems with the BNRT, including that fact it would encourage businesses to outsource jobs to independent contractors because payments to contractors could be written off while payroll costs could not.   Assembly Speaker Karen Bass said it would disproportionately tax knowledge-based industries, which “everyone agrees is the best thing California has going for it.”  She said the net receipts for a company such as Wal-Mart would be a much smaller percentage of gross receipts than a company such as Oracle. While much of Wal-Mart’s expenses are buying inventory, “most of the value of what Oracle sells is the brainpower of its highly compensated, highly skilled work force.”  “What type of businesses do we want to encourage in the California economy?”   Lenny Goldberg, president of the California Tax Reform Association, notes the BNRT would compound the shifting of the tax burden to the poor and middle-class by effectively taxing rents. Especially since landlords could not subtract interest payments on their property from their gross receipts, they would be forced to raise rents to cover the new taxes, he said.   At least a few in our legislature have some brains.   I suspect the rest think the public is stupid and will not get it, that this is a way to make the public think they are getting a tax cut because the individual tax rate is decreasing, when in reality the state, at least temporarily, will collect more tax revenue than ever and the government will continue to grow out of controldisproportionately with the population of the state.  Unfortunately there are those that will never realize that they are paying more taxes because the taxes will be hidden in the price increases, tax-induced inflation.  Or possibly, much of the legislature is handicapped with tunnel vision or near sightedness and cannot see the big picture and the "unintended consequences".  If this bill goes through, the only businesses it makes sense to have would be a small business with less than $500K in revenue or a pass-through distributor/dealer operation with low overhead, utilizing a just-in-time system, fulfilling orders by having suppliers drop ship directly to the customer.  Retailers/distributors with low overhead can make astronomical profits and get away with significantly lower taxes than they are currently subject to. CPA's will practically have to pay the tax amount on their full gross receipts.
Fri, 10/02/2009 - 08:51 | 86239 River Tam
River Tam's picture

California Girl, the sales tax can be more complicated than the Federal income tax. In Florida there is a different rule for practically every item. And numerous exemptions.

California needs to cut out the fat, but the people dont seem to have the will.

When too many people are in on the "take" there is no one left to make the donuts.

Move your business to Texas.

 

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 20:09 | 85950 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

How bout this? Since the Iraqi war was for the Iraqi people, how bout those people pay for their own liberation? Instead of sicking the IRS on this country's own, how about sending the IRS overseas to Iraq to collect those dollars spent? And letting the Iraqi security forces protect the Iraqi citizens while we're at it.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 18:18 | 85826 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

let them pass al the stupid taxes they want, when the dollar finally collapses, which it must eventually. because the rest of the world will grow tired of are fiat, unbacked currency and say enough is enough. then the real fun will begin. since our paper dollar will become useless. and you cant tax something that is useless. hence goodby goverement and welcome to the new world order run by these banksters( a.k.a. fraudsters )
best bet!! by gold and silver especially silver for stockpiling, also guns and lead, and plenty of m.r.e.'s.
( a.k.a. meals ready to eat, that last a long time stored in freezers) problem solved since the whole country will be broke, and dont have to worry about being thrown out of your house or apartment. ah! ah! yes the wonders of poltical and beauracratic mentality.

thats right folks the politicians and the beauracrats truly are the missing link between man and monkey, that the evolveisnist have been looking for, its that they have been looking for them in the wrong places. they have been hideing out in washington all this time and put on suits to disguise who they truly are.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 17:12 | 85731 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

There is a bill that has been before Congress for several years called the Fair Tax Amendment. It uses a study by the Cato Institute and proposes abolishing the 16th (?)amendment that allows federal income tax and instituting a national sales tax. It also replaces all the income from SS, Medicare, Estate and Income tax with a 22-26% sales tax. Families would register with SS for a monthly rebate check for the amount of tax on the national poverty level for that size family and take home 100% of their earnings (less optional items like insurance, 401K, etc.). This would immediately spur consumer spending as they would have the SS check plus 100% of their paycheck to spend; these total more then the cost plus incremental tax.

Over a period of time, product costs would drop to reflect the lack of hidden taxes (payroll taxes, income taxes, estate taxes, etc.) that producers have to pass on at each stage of a products origin. The the rate could also drop. An added benefit is that while very few illegal aliens or drug dealers pay income taxes, they all buy food, clothes, cars, homes, etc and would be sucked into the tax system. Since there is an estimated 40% of GDP in the underground (black) market this would add a significant boost to tax collection. (If you're not legal you would not receive the subsidy check from SS and would wind up paying tax on all of your spending.) This also gives an incentive for exporters as there is no sales tax on exports, thereby making US goods and services more competitive in the world market.

BUT, this makes too much sense to ever go anywhere!

M. Churchman

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 17:04 | 85718 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Everyone needs to start a tax revolt in this country to stop funding the Feds and the State governments. It should start just like the Tea Parties and 9-12 demonstration in D.C. People across the country should start meeting in large groups and start demanding their employers stop withholding their taxes (acting as unconstitutional back-up withholding agents). Everyone should stop filing tax returns. Since about 35 Million are filing and paying taxes, I have to question: "Are you stupid?" When the other 3/4 of the population doesn't file, why the hell are you still filing?

If everyone stopped or substantially reduced paying and filing, the government would stop operating. I don't see a problem with that at all.

Tue, 10/06/2009 - 16:10 | 90593 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I agree. Everyone needs to stop filing but then, who is going first? Back in the early 1980s I was one of the first to to do just as you suggest, right down to suing my employer for not honoring my request to get out of the way and not with hold wages for tax. I went to Federal District tax court and got stomped. No David against Goliath victory here. I don't really regret doing what I did nor what it cost me monetarily but I was disappointed that what I thought was the beginning of a "movement" turned out to be a "You go first---I'm right behind you." thing. I don't know if we can get enough education to prevail in court against the IRS but get enough people to quit filing and it will get either to expensive to collect or to dangerous.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 17:02 | 85713 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"... Yes we can! ..."

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 16:40 | 85676 Crook County
Crook County's picture

Some listening music for this post - http://bit.ly/6lGUB

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 15:51 | 85594 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Tax revolt would not cost one drop of blood yet would destroy the beast

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 15:43 | 85577 Econophile
Econophile's picture

Channel Zero, the problems you mention are good reasons why we shouldn't let government run anything. If you think government action is a "cure" for the "serious" problems, why didn't they prevent them in the first place? A: They don't have a clue what the problems are.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 14:20 | 85465 channel_zero
channel_zero's picture

Most of you whiners need to get a grip.

1. I agree a sales tax is not what's needed.  It discourages consumption.

2. As much as you whiners complain about paying taxes, you then complain MORE when bridges collapse and regulators can't do their job.  Well, which one is it?

The U.S. has *serious* problems and you morons are standing around calling each other names.  This only contributes to the worsening situation.

Grow up.

Fri, 10/02/2009 - 12:11 | 86570 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Exactly.
If you wanted deregulation, he buddy, your friends on wall street couldn't cheat the system forever.
If you were gung-ho to bomb Iraq,(and now Iran), I better not see you at any 'Tea Parties'
Oh, and lets let corporations rape the environment since it'll help my current portfolio.. that will never cost our kids anything?
Most of you people are pure hypocrites.

Tue, 10/13/2009 - 09:18 | 97426 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Hmmm, I just wonder if you were organizing a partys about "lax" regulation over the past few years or just joined the party after the mess so you could whine about it.. And the only reason these "evil" corporations exist is because "we" buy their products. We stop buying.. they go away... So at the very least anyone that drives a car is a hypocrate if they are bitching about the oil companies and anyone that has a kid is contributing to global warming or climate change or whatever they are calling it this week. So talk to me when you stop using oil and stop procreating and stop acting like a spoiled entitled moron.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 10:00 | 85097 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Obama represents an interregnum between the stealth expansion of the federal bureaucracy (Cheney/Bush expanded the size of the bureaucracy more than at any time since Ronald Reagan), off-budget supplemental financing tricks to keep the American people from seeing the true costs of the Bush wars and the outright authoritarian system that will follow after the Democrats by their being beholden to the FIRE sector have so pissed off the few people who do vote for them that they will go the way of the Whigs.

Good riddance.

but let's stop pretending that the huge deficits we face have been caused by the programs Obama introduced. You don't wage two wars and drastically cut taxes, while sending jobs overseas, and expect to have anything except outrageous deficits.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 01:01 | 84852 Lux Fiat
Lux Fiat's picture

Around 40% of working Americans currently don't owe federal taxes on their income and have no skin in the game.  Is it any wonder Congress doesn't feel the heat from the electorate to spend prudently and within our country's means when this type of situation exists?  I think everyone needs to have some skin in the game - period. 

Sadly, the chances of making this happen short of a *real* financial meltdown are slim to none.  As usually, the freight train that has been coming down the track fo the last 40+ years will have to wreck and do lots of damage before the political will for real change exists.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 00:34 | 84827 Ignore Amos
Ignore Amos's picture

There is no way Obama would support such a proposal.  After all, he said he would not raise taxes on any family making less than $250,000/yr. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y

You sir owe President Obama an apology!

<sarcasm off>

 

 

Wed, 09/30/2009 - 23:26 | 84733 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The VAT is going to generate a hell of a savings as we don't spend money on anything unnecessary.

Kinda hard to collect good amount of tax on Milk, Cornbread and Beef.

Anything else like Insurance? Hah. We will just toss the policies away and go on without em and put the premiums away along with the other savings.

Wed, 09/30/2009 - 21:13 | 84559 grunk
grunk's picture

I'm waiting for a national real estate tax.  The Feds could glom off the local assessment records.

Thu, 10/01/2009 - 00:00 | 84787 digalert
digalert's picture

We're getting there. State of California has robbed my city of $10million, in fact they're raiding every city.

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