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Next Up In The China Trade War: US Duties On China Pipe?
<p>Just crossing the DJ newsires: US Commerce Considers Imposing Import Duties On China Pipe</p>
<p>Will update as we get more</p>
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Obama is sure doing his best to destroy the US economy.
I foresee a "Mission Accomplished" banner in the future....
How does slowing down China from dumping their crappy products in this country will destroy our economy?
Trade war? Bring it on baby!!!!
You assume the avg American is capable of producing a finial product out of raw materials. How many of you can operate a milling machine, sewing machine, etc. How can the US produce competitive products when the majority of Americans can't pass basic math? It is one of many requirements in skill trades.
Top it off the manufacture business is hard dirty work with a lot of manual labor. How many Americans are willing to do that kind of work without whining? And then you have the Unions.
Why wouldn't I assume the average American is capable of this work?
We became a superpower without China's help. We were building aircraft carriers when the Chinese were still living in mud huts and raising chickens.
We became the best country on earth with our own talent and resources.
FYI, I don't mean to single out China. My point applies to every other country out there. i.e. The French would be speaking German right now had we not saved their asses in WWII.
nah, the cheese eating surrender monkeys would very likely be speaking Russian were it not for our involvement
Skill trades mean just that you must have skills.
Americans that have skill trades are either old, about to retire, or have retired. You ever been into a metal manufacturing product plant? How many young people you see in there? Almost none. It is made out of old or late middle age men. These people came from a time where they were taught skill trades in high schools. This is not the case today.
It doesn't matter if you ban every products that China made. It will not help the US manufacturing industries because there is an absolute almost empty pool of skill trade workers in America.
There was a thread few months back where a gun manufacture that is seeing unprecedented growth complain that he can't hire more people to meet the demand because the lack of skill trade workers. What he stucked with are the people that work for him for over 20 years. He would like to see younger face in the plant but he realized that is not going to happen.
No argument there. I agree, but you got the cause and effect relationship backwards. Globalization wiped out the American manufacturing base. It wasn't lack of young eager workers that made companies go overseas. It was lack of manufacturing jobs that discouraged young workers from getting into these fields.
The same thing is currently happening in the high tech sector. American engineers are losing their jobs to younger Indians. I bet in 10 years, someone will come along and say, look, there are no young and eager Americans with the skills to do engineering work, so that's why Indians are doing this work. BS!
Actually, the Chinese are getting most of the skilled high-tech jobs too.
The manufacturing jobs are not that hard to learn. Even an educated person could learn to operate a lathe or mill. I usually ask my kids "Are you lazy enough to go to college." I worked as a machinist while I was in college, making bridge parts, and bomb casings. The folks I worked with were not all that bright. Some of them had serious substance abuse problems . . . Now these same people, in another age cohort, are living in mom and dads basement. There is no work for them that they can do.
"Let them make pipe," say I.
"We" are no longer the "we" to which you refer.
The Greatest Generation crossed the Atlantic, defeated Hitler, recsued Europe, invented nuclear weapons, won the war for the Pacific, and secured the blessings of peace and liberty for future generations.
My generation can no longer lift itself off the Goddamned couch.
This country is a mishmash of foreign nationalities that universally despise the founding principles, and what few Americans still understand what this country once stood for are now rotting away in nursing homes.
There is no basis for thinking we have anywhere near the motivation, unity, maturity, or organizational skills to compete with the Chinese.
Pass the Doritos and the Xbox controller.
I can and do. Without the Union, thank you.
Nothing against the Union, but like any political structure it has grown bloated, incompetent, and superfluous.
I am Chumbawamba, and I proudly wear a blue collar or white collar depending on the occasion.
Or no collar.
Or no sleeves.
Sometimes I like to party after work.
Looks like some losers here
China Pipe? Is that the one people use to smoke green shoots? If so, we should see this all over the MSM shortly.
Looks like it's going to bring us $2.6 billion, or 0.15% of our deficit, yay I guess
The best pipes come from Santa Cruz anyway; no big loss.
China pipe is for when you bang the hopium gong.
Actually scratch that last comment, this could actually be a huge boon to us if deployed correctly thanks to our new economic model where 4th grade math majors need not apply:
We start with 2.6 billion from our nice manufacturers that use these pipes that now have to pay higher prices for them (GDP +2.6 billion)
After our customs department gets their cut we can probably expect 1.5 billion to reach the treasury. This then gets given back to a bank that is too big to fail, and after bonuses, plus some kickback to those making it all possible, $1billion gets deployed to new mortgages. With the new paradigm of 100/1 fractional reserve banking, this is 100 billion worth of new mortgages issued (GDP +102.6). Now our nice bank has 100 billion in scary mortgages on it's books, so naturally it goes to the fed window and puts them up as collateral at par value and gets 100 billion in nice new bills back. It pays out it's bonuses (GDP +112.6), and now needs to do something with 90 billion. Well gee, a lot of those original borrowers have foreclosed on their homes and now need to buy new ones, and they just happen to have an inventory of foreclosed homes to sell them, so they go back into the mortgage business and lucky for them, the tax credit has just been expanded to cover everyone and is now 15k, so they issue 1800 billion worth of mortgages (GDP +1912.6). They've been running this business so well, they have an extra nice bonus this year (GDP +1932.6 billion).
Hey this just fixed our whole economic decline thanks to our suspension of laws and financial imagineering. This really deserves a "YAY!". Just rince and repeat till we're in uber prosperity, there's no one watching, trust me...
This is getting better by the day.
Anyone see the show "Sliders"? I feel like I slid into an absurd parallel universe, and can't get out. Jerry O'Connel, save me!
Professor Arturo just told me that I should be shorting the euro. In every world they've been to, the euro fails.
Mr. Smoot meet Mr. Hawley - you guys get to know one another in the 21st century. Instead of talking tariffs may I suggest you talk about currency manipulation and beggar thy neighbor policies.
Trade is for suckers. Last one to the bottom is a rotten egg.
Cheers,
Pigpen
'US duties on China pipe' -- Thought it was some kind of scat porn.
Yeah, based on what the ladies report we really have nothing to worry about.
I am Chumbawamba.
So now we're going to charge them while they give us their pipe? Damn, we really are hos. I think someone was mentioning KY in the last thread...
They study well the great depression... that was cause by proteccionism in first place. Theses morons are doing the same.
US is going to be destroyed economically... What a funny 2010 is going to be.
Ahh...nothing new to see. Devaluing the USD has been the administrations own form of underhanded US trade protectionism.
My buddy works for a decent sized China nat gas piping company. She said if the duties go through, they're moving out of the entire US market completely. The US wont' even have enough supply of piping for what's needed. Looks like nat gas is going to the moon.
I wonder how much pipe we are currently importing from China. With this economic downturn it might not be too much.
The important thing is where the ore comes from.
Pennsylvania will be happy.
Shame on those Chinese for out working and outproducing us. They must be punished.
And technical efficiencies in blast furnaces and smelting ovens reducing electrical consumption over 60%. That is what really makes Chinese Steel cheap.
Anything you do, you politician/lawyer/banker/etc...,is complete BS unless it's the issue I want addressed.
So FOff.
Do you feel better now...umm...rage...so good...
Enjoy your early death.
smoot hawley part deux. good work washington. this will definitely help
Anyone seen the list of american products that are either banned or heavily tarriffed in china. I couldn't care less if we tarriff a couple of low cost import items.
America makes products? Ah, it appears they do. The only thing on my desk that is made in USA is my pen holder and an aerosal can of compressed air for dust cleaning -- brilliant.
Most of the worlds music, and many of the movies. Americans also heavily export cars, weapons, and especially agricultural products like beef, pork, cotton, sugar, tobacco, and corn.
What a joke. You assume the avg American is capable of producing a finial product out of raw materials. How many of you can operate a milling machine, sewing machine, etc. How can the US produce competitive products when the majority of Americans can't pass basic math? It is one of many requirements in skill trades.
Top it off the manufacture business is hard dirty work with a lot of manual labor. How many Americans are willing to do that kind of work without whining? And then you have the Unions.
you forget that during WWII, women who hadn't made anything other than delicious pies we able to design and manufacture the gears of war that destroyed 1/3 of europe and most of developed asia. Don't underestimate the american desire for success. Also, with real unemployment at 17.5% a lot of americans would consider these jobs. It beats the current McJobs many people have been forced into.
many of those women had husbands, brothers and/or fathers who worked in industry. Those were good jobs, lots of people had them, and there was lots of work. So they just moved into the vacant positions and got busy.
Fast forward 50 years; anyone reading this blog know anyone holding down a meaningful job in manufacturing?
I write software during the week, but have always been an inventor/builder. I welded together what might be the coolest bicycle currently on the road over the summer in my spare time from raw materials and without plans. I ride it 60 miles a day to work. People stop me on the street and take pictures of it with their cell phone cameras. My kids watched the whole thing and learned a lot. But we are by far the exception, and most people wouldn't know a wire welder from a soda can. Most people don't think anything is actually made, but comes from some magical place, grown on trees or something.
It would take a LONG time to get any kind of a workforce ready to fill the factories. Certainly years. People have zero skills and worse -- have no clue.
cougar
For many years the population moved totally away from actually doing things, like building and at the very least repairing. People lack fundamental knowledge and skills about even simple things like how automobile engines work, even how to do simple tasks like changing oil. Cars in particular are treated as throw away objects to be abused and then tossed and another purchased.
Self sufficiency comes by being able to take care of yourself and your things. If the car is broken you learn how to fix it or at the very least how to properly take care of it.
There's been a tendancy in the US to treat those who do repair work as lesser people when in fact they will be very important in the future.
my .02
"My kids watched the whole thing and learned a lot. But we are by far the exception, and most people wouldn't know a wire welder from a soda can. Most people don't think anything is actually made, but comes from some magical place, grown on trees or something."
I agree.
Nobody seems to encourage their kids to pursue these types of technical endeavors.
They're happy if their kids graduate with a degree in psychology, live at home and only have 25k of debt.
I don't agree about the long time to fill a factory. If those jobs became available, they would be filled. People would learn anything if its the difference between eating and starving. But I will say as the skilled workforce ages and eventually retires, the knowledge gained over decades will leave with it.
Do you think the Chinese are born with an innate knack for using a milling machine, a lathe, or a TIG machine. No more than we are.... the difference is the country's attitude toward it.
If being technical is not fostered at a young age it is lost. It is a mind set of logic and progression, both things that seem to be lost on our society as a whole.
Its all I have done all of my life, work in manufacturing. Just try and find a job there nowadays! From Feb. 2005 to Jan. 2009 I worked in a factory building railcars. Hot dirty work, now we are all layed off. Most everyone I know who worked there has been out of work since the plant closed in January. And there are no manufacturing jobs available to go to now, so we all collect unemployment.
I was offered a job at Tinker as a Sheet Metal Mechanic, but am still waiting on a start date as they are giving me a hard time on my hearing, which is a result of working on aircraft for 22 years. Ironic is it not? 22 years experience doing the work, and they give me a hard time because of bad hearing, which resulted from doing that work!
I thought the Federal Government was an equal opportunity employer?
Weak attempt at laying the lead pipe to China.
Fine enough to keep on going, but be sure to account for any redirection to any other Third World countries.
Peddling junk has its consequences, China. Perhaps you should start addressing those in a way that isn't circumvention.
Just so there are no tarrifs on Peter North's pipe is all I care. RedTube would die.
I'm pretty shcoked. The folks in washington d.c. and at the Fed are smoking so much phucking crack that they will regret the fact that they cannot purchase more pipes. They will be squishing soda cans and poking little holes in them......
edit: I was going to fix the spelling error on "shcoked" then realized it was a pretty ironic error.....
I reckon Obama thinks USA has enough crack pipes as it is
US was net exporter in 1929-1935. Big net importer now.
We can stand a little "leveling" of the playing field.
We need fair trade - not free trade.
China has more to lose than we do. Bring it on.
we trained women in 1941 to build our hightech weaponry, and very quickly.
C'mon. No manufacturing here in the USA. All these laid off realtors, mortgage brokers, and banking personnel can surely figure out how to use a welder.
America. What a fuckin' joke it's become.
The commie Chinese don't "outwork" and "outproduce" us.
They work cheap. That's all. $0.50/hr cheap. Some of us might even argue that kind of a wage amounts to modern slavery.
Two years. That's what it took to train up and build out or convert US war production plants for WW2. The manufacturing push began in 1940 on the coat-tails of the Great Depression as war loomed and by 1942 it was "balls to the walls".
Existing plants were converted to war production in just weeks. Greenfield plants went up in months as their new local workforces were trained up to be ready by opening day. What manpower that wasn't available locally was brought in, which often meant Johnny Reb moving from Mississippi to Detroit or Wichita or Kansas City. Better yet, the workforces were often ... gasp ... union.
Lots of able manufacturing people are currently idled. I know a welder who traded his UAW welding job ($25/hr) for a non-union $8/hr welding job when our plant closed. He gave that up when he figured out $8/hr was a slave wage and now he babysits instead. I know machinists working at Walgreens. Engineers driving trucks. Canned managers trying to mow yards for a living.
I'm surprised some Americans have so little faith in their fellow Americans. Trade war? Bring it on. It's about time.
Darn, I thought it said PIES, I'm hungry!
That's right China! Fuck you, tariff the dog crap out of you we will. You will pay through the nose to lay your pipe on US. (Whispering...now in a low voice) Oh and pretty please show up to our Treasury auctions next week, we have some 7, 10 and 30 year bills we need to lay on you. Gosh darn thanks for buying our craptastic debt, without your money we are doomed. Your friends, USA.
I bet nobody here has been to a metal working plant in China. The peasants running the machinery are not "skilled tradesmen" and it ain't hard to stamp metal, powdercoat, weld, etc. Its just boring and dirty work.
A lot of the machines now used are either designed to be very basic and easy to use for the peasants OR they are CNC machinery that needs a few techs to run, and computerization makes that easier to do, as well.
india was dumping pipe a short time ago also. we make pipe here also all so relax. being a pipe fitter we had to ban fittings and some piping since they where sub standard and thus actually unsafe to install. since we use asme B31.3 - 2002 - Process Piping and other code standards and B31 Code for pressure piping, developed by American Society of Mechanical Engineers - ASME, covers Power Piping, Fuel Gas Piping, Process Piping, Pipeline Transportation Systems for Liquid Hydrocarbons and Other Liquids, Refrigeration Piping and Heat Transfer Components and Building Services Piping. ASME B31 was earlier known as ANSI B31. Yes 5 percent of the welds are x rayed and API codes also apply since having problems make the usa today paper when things go bad is bad business so good company's with iso standards in there face cannot utilize lower quality materials since the feds will and do investagate as does the state and internal controls.
Really i would have to also read more to see what was turned away.