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NIA Comments On The Upcoming Bursting Of The (Bankruptcy Non-Dischargeable) College Debt Bubble
The NIA, better known for cutting straight to the chase and not really mincing its words today focuses on the latest trillion + dollar bubble: that of US higher education, which is getting increasingly more funded directly by the US Government. "The National Inflation Association believes that the United States has a college education bubble that is set to burst beginning in mid-2011. This bursting bubble will have effects that are even more far-reaching than the bursting of the Real Estate bubble in 2006. College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history." And the kicker: unlike housing debt, college debt has that extra oomph to it that it traditionally is not discharged in bankruptcy: as such it is the ultimate subjugation mechanism. This one sure is set to get interesting...
From the NIA
The National Inflation Association believes that the United States has a college education bubble that is set to burst beginning in mid-2011. This bursting bubble will have effects that are even more far-reaching than the bursting of the Real Estate bubble in 2006. College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.
NIA's advice to the youth of America today is to think for yourselves. Don't get suckered into overpaying for a college degree that is worthless because everyone else has one. College is only worth attending if you plan on actually learning something there. If you are only going to college because you think a piece of paper is going to help you find a job, you would be much better off skipping college and entering the workforce right now at any entry level job. Your experience will benefit you more than any piece of paper.
The median U.S. home price is currently $170,600, down 26% from its peak of $230,200 in July of 2006. The Dow Jones is currently 11,672, down 18% from its peak of 14,198 in October of 2007. Oil is currently $91 per barrel, down 38% from its peak of $147 per barrel in July of 2008. After the financial panic of 2008, the U.S. saw a collapse in the prices of just about all assets, goods, services, and commodities. Between lost stock market and home equity wealth, Americans lost $10.2 trillion in paper wealth in 2008, and have only recouped a fraction of it since then.
College is the only thing in America that never declined in price during the panic of 2008. It actually rose in price substantially. The annual tuition for a private four-year college was $21,235 in the 2005-2006 school year. Despite Real Estate beginning to collapse in late-2006, college tuition rose by 4.6% in the 2006-2007 school year to $22,218. Despite the stock market beginning to collapse in late-2007, college tuition rose by 6.7% in the 2007-2008 school year to $23,712. Despite oil and other commodities collapsing in late-2008, college tuition rose by 6.2% in the 2008-2009 school year to $25,177. Even after the Dow Jones crashed to a low in early-2009 of 6,469, college tuition still rose by 4.4% in the 2009-2010 school year to $26,273.
Annual tuition for a private four-year college in America is now $27,293, up 29% from five years ago. Meanwhile, the employment situation in the U.S. has deteriorated. There are currently 130.7 million non-farm jobs in America, down 3% from 134.5 million U.S. non-farm jobs in December 2005. 3.8 million jobs have been lost, while the U.S. population has grown by approximately 14 million people during the same time period. We would need to have seen the creation of 6.7 million non-farm jobs just to stay even, but now we are 10.5 million jobs short.
All across America, thousands of students are graduating law school each year with $250,000 in debt, but with no jobs at law firms available to them. 15,000 attorney and legal staff jobs have disappeared since 2008, yet 43,000 law degrees are being handed out each year. Law degrees are losing their value faster than the U.S. dollar is losing its purchasing power. Lawyers are non-producing workers that do nothing to create any real wealth for society. The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.
The service sector currently makes up 76.9% of the U.S. GDP. Agriculture, which in 1933 made up 28% of GDP, currently makes up only 1.2% of GDP. The wealth of any country is primarily created at first from the production of food, oil, and precious metals. Secondly, wealth is created from the manufacturing of real consumer goods. After a country generates wealth by producing real things and builds a large domestic pool of savings, it can begin growing a service based economy, just so long as it has enough savings to support it.
During the past decade, an unprecedented number of Americans went to school to become lawyers, because they thought if they became a lawyer they would immediately become rich. 60% of the U.S. Senate and 37% of the House of Representatives are lawyers. The reason we have so many lawyers in Washington is so that they can pass as many new harmful laws and regulations as possible, in order to provide enough work for all of their lawyer friends. All of the needless legislation that is passed each year in order to provide work for lawyers, has the devastating unintended consequence of destroying what little is left of the free market. Small businesses are the backbone of the U.S. economy, but it is now nearly impossible for a small businessman with limited financial resources to build a large successful corporation in any sector, because their legal costs would eat up all of their profits.
Many law students got suckered into going to law school due to deceptive marketing practices. Some law schools are advertising that 90% of graduates are employed within one year of graduating. Sure, maybe 90% of law school graduates were employed a year later, with half of them working at McDonald's, but no law school degree is required for that. Schools are using dozens of unethical tactics to manipulate their numbers while encouraging alumni to falsify the surveys they fill out about their employment situation. Just like we are now seeing countless class action lawsuits against mortgage companies that misled customers about the loans they signed up for, we will soon see a massive number of lawsuits filed against colleges that lied about their job placement rates and average starting salaries of graduates. (At least there will be some work for law school graduates.)
Most Americans today are sheep who believe that the key to success and happiness in life is following the same career paths as everybody else. While everybody went to school to become a lawyer, nobody went to school to become a farmer because Americans didn't see any money in farming. With prices of nearly all agricultural commodities soaring through the roof in 2010 and with NIA expecting this trend to continue throughout 2011, the few new farmers out there are going to become rich while lawyers are standing at street corners with cups begging for money.
The college tuition bubble has been fueled by the U.S. government's willingness to give out easy student loans to anybody who applies for them. If it wasn't for government student loans, the free market would force colleges to provide the best quality education at the lowest possible price. By the government trying to make colleges more affordable, they have actually driven prices through the roof. Colleges have been encouraged to spend recklessly on wasteful construction projects, building new libraries, gyms, sports arenas, housing units, etc. Colleges spent $10.7 billion on construction projects in 2009. Although this is down from an average of $14.7 billion per year colleges spent on construction projects from 2005 to 2007, colleges are still struggling to pay off their old construction related debt. When interest rates start to rise, it will add further upside pressure to college tuition prices.
College students borrowed $106 billion in total student loans for the 2009-2010 school year, up from $96 billion in 2008-2009, $94 billion in 2007-2008, $87 billion in 2006-2007, and $83 billion in 2005-2006. Total student loan debt in the U.S. currently stands at $830 billion and now exceeds credit card debt. President Obama's new student loan bill that was passed last year now makes the government the primary lender to students. By taking the free market out of the student loan business and allowing students to receive loans from the government at artificially low interest rates, colleges will be encouraged to spend more recklessly than ever. None of this wasteful spending is doing anything to improve the quality of education in America.
Over a year ago when NIA was filming 'The Dollar Bubble' in Los Angeles, violent riots broke out at UCLA over a 32% increase in college tuitions (from $7,788 to $10,302). We went to the protest in order to video tape the shocking footage to show you. While we were there we remember thinking to ourselves, why on earth are these students protesting at all? If tuitions are rising by 32% and they are unhappy about it, why don't they quietly and peacefully enroll someplace else for college next semester. If not enough students enroll into UCLA, the university will be forced to either dramatically cut their costs or shut down. UCLA decided to completely ignore the riots and went ahead with the 32% rise in tuitions. Did the students decide to enroll someplace else? Nope, most of them simply took out larger student loans and went back to UCLA. In fact, UCLA reported that they received a record amount of freshman applicants for the next semester.
With all of the technological advancements taking place around the world today, the cost for a college education should be getting cheaper. Americans today can purchase just about any type of product they want over the Internet for substantially less than they can find it in a retail store. When the U.S. dollar collapses and the college bubble bursts, NIA predicts we will see a boom in online education where Americans take all of their courses over the Internet from the comfort of their own home at a fraction of the cost of traditional college.
Later this year, NIA is going to be producing a documentary about America's college education crisis and the college tuition bubble that is about to burst. In the weeks ahead, NIA is going to begin searching for people who deserve to be featured in our documentary. If you are a college student, a recent college graduate, or a current or ex-college professor with an extremely shocking, interesting, and important story that the whole world needs to know about in what will be the most viewed college documentary in world history, please send an email to collegebubble@inflation.us. We would also love to hear from any NIA member who has any ideas of topics that we should cover in this new documentary. Please send all ideas and suggestions to collegebubble@inflation.us.
This will truly be one of the most important documentaries NIA has ever produced. We need to change the mindset in America that only those with college degrees have any chance of becoming successful. Americans have become so brainwashed that even after graduating college with over $50,000 in debt and not being able to find a job, many of them are wasting even more years of their life and getting even deeper into debt to attend a graduate school, for a master's degree that is just as worthless as a bachelor's degree. It is like comparing a $10 bill (master's degree) to a $1 bill (bachelor's degree), they are both worthless pieces of paper with no intrinsic value.
NIA believes that any recent high school graduate with $30,000 saved for college who invests that money into silver and becomes a minimum wage apprentice for the next 4 years, will likely have enough money in 4 years to buy a median priced U.S. home. Not only that, but they will have work place experience that is far more valuable than the worthless college degrees of any of their friends. We must work hard to educate America to the truth if our country is going to have the wherewithal to survive the upcoming bursting college bubble and Hyperinflationary Great Depression.
It is important to spread the word about NIA to as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, if you want America to survive hyperinflation. Please tell everybody you know to become members of NIA for free immediately at: http://inflation.us
h/t Robert
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The Real World:
Happened to have a casual conversation with a 55 year-old acquaintance recently.
She's a full-time student financed entirely with loans... which also cover living expenses.
Her student debt is hovering around $150,000. She's studying acupuncture.
My niece is in law school. Nice girl. Good intentions. Figured what better choice with a B.A. and no good jobs than go to law school! Always respectable... parents relieved that their child is safely conventional headed towards high-status profession... don't know the details but again with considerable debt being incurred.
Multiply this and similar scenarios by millions of times!
Civilizations die by the lies they tell themselves!
Ignorance may be bliss... but only for a very little while.
My oldest daughter signed for a "private-industry student loan" . She did this without consulting me, first. I wondered how she could afford a big screen t.v. ! , but, when I asked her about it, I believed her when she said that her boyfriend gave it to her. (Moms are so trusting & believing ! ) ......... BOTTOM LINE : NOW SHE'S CRYING TO ME / CAN I HELP HER WITH THE PAYMENTS !! ......... ANOTHER SCAM BY THE BANKS TO DRAIN WEALTH OUT OF THE OLDER GENERATION VIA THEIR KIDS. I told my daughter that she was targeted by the banking / student loan industry & that the banks should never have made such loans to young kids in the first place ! no bank would have dreamed of giving me such a loan when i was her age ! ........... FRAUDULENT INDUCEMENT ! fucking banks.
It takes two to tango - in this case, your daughter was the prime mover in taking out that loan. No bank held a gun to her head and forced her to borrow. Stupid? Sure. Fatal? Hardly.
That said, based on your post & others from you that I've read, I wouldn't want to be within five miles of your and your daughter when you decide to teach her a lesson!
She's just not that good a scam artist.
I work as an administrator a private liberal-arts colleege where tuition and fees are approaching $40K per year. I am amazed that so many parents will still send their kids off to get an almost $200K degree in English Lit or Sociology. I've read some of their papers and I am not kidding when I say that many cannot write a coherent sentence, some of the stuff is almost laughable. Most can't explain themselves clearly when speaking either.
Another thing is the faculty... most of them work 3/3 (3 classes each semester). Each class meets for 3 hours per week - do the math. They do have office hours and class prep etc. but there is no way it is as difficult or time-consuming as teaching a high-school class for 6 hours a day. Then they are also off basically from early May through late August, as well as most of the month of Dec-January. In all fairness most non-tenured professors do not make a lot of money so I have no clue where all this tuition money is going. New buildings/facilities I guess. Professors also get sabbaticals where they get an entire semester off with pay to "research". I know an art prof who took a semester off and hung out at his country home and painted. Academia is weird in that they think if one of their professors publishes some article in a scholarly journal about Shakespeare's sonnets or what have you, that will improve the prestige of the school. But as far as I can tell, no one outside of the insular world of academia gives a crap or even reads these articles.
I do think college is a good experience for many of these kids (learn at least some independence, hopefully gain a broader knowledge of the world, meet new people, girls, parties, getting laid, etc)., but the price is just ludicrous and I have not heard a valid defense of the cost from anyone inside academia.
thanks for the input.
Stove NY... I told both children to learn to write and to learn to think critically and independently. When my son was in HS, I had to hire a tutor to improve his writing - he wrote soooo poorly that I could not read his stuff and retain my sanity.
I also wonder where the tuition money disappears. Where I am at (big TX state school) the state pays salaries so the tuition is used for other things. If I teach 250 student class Univ takes in >300K for that one class. Where does the money go? My suspicion is that money is wasted on (a) administrative perks, (b) building projects, most of them useless/overpriced and handed out to buddies of administration, (c) athletic program eats up about 5-10% of tuition revenue - I do not see why it is needed at all in University. Also, there are many small, underperforming programs, especially in humanities which are supported by other programs. I doubt that politically it would be possible to eliminate ethnic or gender studies although no sane person would study there. Also, being in TX ALL of our chem/chem E students with bachelors degrees who wanted a job and did not suck academically (GPA>3) got jobs even in last few years. I doubt that oil refineries will hire anyone without some formal education (other than for custodial jobs). Then again, most students here find hard science/engineering way too difficult - it is easier to study basket weaving/interpretative dance/gender studies and then complain about difficulties in finding jobs.
Ironically it seems if a professor does do a lot of work and publish papers that draw the attention of the public he or she is immediately branded a sellout or popularizer whose work is of no academic value.
Well, it's not like there's no silver lining:
15,000 attorney and legal staff jobs have disappeared since 2008, yet 43,000 law degrees are being handed out each year. Law degrees are losing their value faster than the U.S. dollar is losing its purchasing power. Lawyers are non-producing workers that do nothing to create any real wealth for society. The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.
Bet the tough times for lawyers aren't quite as evident in D.C. though...
*When it comes to college kiddies, here's the thing: if you get into a top school: GO - find a way to make it happen. If you can get someone else (non-family) to pay for it (any college): GO - and try to actually learn something while you're there. But for any other college plan...do the math first.
No Guys, Mr. Dimon is saying everything is fine across the board ...
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1737074353&play=1
My best friend ended up in Afghanistan no thanks to his college career! So, last year I advised my brother-in-law to credit card his student loans just in case he didn't find a job.
Oh yeah, good idea--put your student debt onto credit cards. Try and struggle thru payments for 3 yrs or so, then declare BK and get it wiped out.
Beats war and garnishments to solve the looming issue, unless you are Rambo!
Hell, you can probably get 0% tranfers that cover most of your college stay. If you talk with a counselor at the university, they'll probably let you bump up the "maximum" number of hours allowed each semester... it would also probably take a long time before the minimum payment was too high to catch with a minimum wage paying job.
Hell, depending on the card, you can probably request statement credits or cash back that would likely pay for the minimum payments...
I would just doubt that you could get too much credit... a $10k credit limit isn't going to pay shit on tuition... depending on where you go of course.
Funny but true?
clicky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M98x-FLp7E
More and more it's 1984.
Indentured 9does that mean they got you by the teeth?) servitude indeed.
funnier still that a college education is the final nail in your "acculturated" coffin, of borrowed ideas and ideals, setting you off to go fend iin a world which they hardly, if at all, prepare you for.
ironic. Like ironic balls on chains to your feet ironic. I was there. With the ignominy of co-signor and delayed payments from my side. Awful.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/70/
The goverment and the Fed has stated that they wish to get money to the middle class. However, the gov. sponsored direct loans funneled through their symbiotic blood sucking bank partners have rates of 7.9-8.5% for Parent Plus loans. Meanwhile the banks borrow at zero to pump asset inflation to further squeeze the middle class and poor, and pump their own salaries and bonuses.
I wrote the Fed, sen, Brown and sen. Kerry about the blatantly corrupt logic in this practice.
I only received auto letters from the Fed and Kerry, and a vain "I empathize with your problem and the education debt issue needs to be addressed response from Brown" (paqraphrased)
The system is doomed.
+1
All true. Best commentary this year thus far. I've got 3 in college and it is a ball buster, and I know there are zero jobs for them in comparison to unemployed and experienced individuals they will compete against. Two in engineering and one in Nursing. F'ing enslavement period. Nursing student, 4 years, 100k? Give me a break.
I graduated law school in 2007. I knew what career path I would take since the age of ~14-15 and I made it happen. I had a scholarship/free ride in undergrad (took 3.5 years), got an MBA in another year (cost ~$10k given my undergrad in accounting), and got a J.D. in three more (cost ~$25k). My parents were kind enough to pick up the tab for all (I lived at home until law school).
I never did any job placement or job interviews while in lawschool. There are many interview days where top firms around the multi-state area try and come in and cherry pick students... however, I knew I was going to return to my home town and I was not the least bit worried about finding a job given my specializations and other degrees. Upon returning home, I scheduled 2 interviews each day for 2 days. I cut the next to the last interview short to go to an interview with my present employer. We hit it off and I got an offer 2 days later that I accepted.
For anyone not familiar with lawyer job interviews, they traditionally require the candidate to talk with every single partner or attorney in the firm... this, often times, is an all day event... often times the candidate will eat lunch with the other attorneys as well. I'm not sure about the rest of my field, but I have better shit to do and I would hope they would as well. When I went to my first big firm interview, each of my prospective co-workers looked as though they were ready to end it all and jump out the window. Upon my questioning, the hours appeared onerous and the office was definitely a "no fun" zone. At my second big firm interview, I actually cut it short because I had scheduled it weeks in advance, but yet I was expected to wait outside the door of the partners until they got finished on the phone or whatever else it was... I told them I was leaving for lunch and we could pick up the interview in the near future... I did go to lunch, but I also had an interview scheduled that afternoon... I went to that interview, all the partners came down and met with me at the same time and I was out in 45 minutes... the exchange was nothing more or less than it should have been. That was my firm. Been here since.
Given the starting salary of most attorneys in this state is ~$40k-50k, student loan debt in the six figure range is completely out of the question. The ONLY way I went to law school was because my parents took it upon themselves to sacrifice to ensure I did not exit college with student loan debt.
I sometimes get calls from prospective law students seeking to hit me up for donations to the law school. I always take the time to stop these kids and ask them a few questions about their preparations for law school. My questionaire is short, but paraphrased something like this: (1) do you already have a job lined up after law school?; (2) will you have to borrow to attend school?; (3) have you already borrowed to attend school?; (4) how much do you think you are going to make upon graduation? (5) Are you married or single or will you cohabitate with anyone upon graduation?; (6) Are you planning on starting a family shortly after graduation?; (7) What was your undergraduate degree?; and (8) Are you planning on specializing or obtaining any other degrees?
Further, I know a significant amount of students who were basically living like kings. Had all their expenses paid through loans and did not have a care in the world at the debt they were racking up. A large amount of purchases were made for beer, electronics, and vacations... all of which were completely unnecessary. (college was a vacation).
Each and every time, I urge the callers to graduate (depending on how much they have left in their undergraduate degree) and/or cut and run and go obtain a vocational degree. The prospective law students have not done even the slightest of due diligence in understanding the speculative nature of their endeavors. I suspect this observation runs the gambit of the entire american population...
The silver lining is that, despite racking up 3 degrees without any debt, I married into student loan debt (my wife also had a 3 year post graduate program to become a licensed counselor). My approach to paying student loans, as an accountant and someone not interested in combating bi-flation (sorry austrian school), is to get them paid as soon as possible. What most people will find is that there are numerous student loans over the years... each with its own interest rate, balance, etc. The best way to combat student loans is to utilize all the legal tools at your disposal to reduce your monthly payments. Then, set up a sinking fund whereby you contribute a certain amount of money each month and upon a date specific, will have a sufficient amount to pay off a particular loan. Pay the highest interest rate loans first (presuming all are fixed) and rinse, repeat. Often times, local banks and credit unions will have "christmas club" accounts that pay a high rate of interest (2-3%+) and the interest you gain on your savings effectively reduces the interest on your loans through offsetting. As a result of these practices and keeping a tight budget, we'll have the loans paid by the end of this year. As you pay off each loan, you will no longer have a monthly payment for that loan... As a result, this frees up additional money to go into your sinking fund(s) and begins to snowball. PS, remember your interest deduction on student loans. Use your tax refund to put into your sinking fund(s). Do not spend all your sinking fund(s) at once if you do not also have sufficient emergency funds (1 year of living expenses). Best of luck.
PS 2, items in the article regarding the legal profession seem to be generally pretty accurate.
Bravo, sir! Well done. More people need to approach their personal finances and schooling this way.
On a slightly related note, I plan to do my due diligence before selecting a suitable wife. Her ability to handle money is #1 on my list. She doesn't have to be a genius, but she does have to udnerstand the time value of money. Tons of student debt/huge mortgage (I am in my 30s) is forgiveable on a case by case basis.
Anyway, great post. And congratulations for setting and achieving your goals.
My wife is not the most competent when it comes to financial wizardry (who is?), but she's a penny pincher from hell. She knows that if she spends it, she doesn't save it... and that she doesn't get to spend anything until she pays off her debt. Doesn't take a business degree to know that...
For us, we splurged on our wedding, but we did not have a traditional wedding... we eloped... and paid for it out of savings... the wedding itself was on a beach and cost a few grand... nothing like the tens of thousands of dollars I see spent by many people I know (who are still paying for it).
I believe we are also planning on moving to a smaller house and paying it off within three or four years... or, renting, and paying off a multi-family rental property in the same period of time... just depends.
None of this shit is rocket surgery... it takes rudimentary planning and a heap of discipline... Further, probably making it moot, it takes two wage earners who each make decent salaries... I guess that's where the planning comes in... It's a minefield out there, but it is navigable...
surgery with a rocket does sound challenging
Yes, well done. Enjoyed the post.
Thanks for sharing. Much appreciated. And good luck sir.
Goes to show the left tenticle of the squid dosent know what the right tenticle of the squid is doing. repeat. Then again, maybe it dose know what its doing.
"Where exactly is this mon$ey going to come from that sets the U.S. off into hyperinflationary collapse?
HYPERINFLATIONIST ARE RETARDS."
from the rest of the world. probably starting with GS, selling treasuries days before an auction. the Fed will have no choice but to buy all. and that wil be a lot ...
I convinced my neighbors' kid to drop out of college, he was studieng socialogy and to get a trade. He is now learning to be a car mechanic, could earn a decent living if he's any good.
Good car mechanics can pretty much write their own ticket. The work is physical and you're exposed to some nasty chemicals, but the demand will be there.
I think I am missing something. If there is going to be hyperinflation, as the NIA predicts, all the debts are going to be paid back with cheap dollars. After all, isn't it the debtors who win in a hyper-inflationary environment? Sounds like student loans=free education.Can someone explain what I am missing. (this of course assumes the debtor is employed ... in any job)
Hence the article regarding the opposing positions of bankers and politicians.
My son will graduate college this year. He has applied to law skool. He will have poli sci degree and speaks three languages. I have tried to get him to take over my biz rather than taking on $200k in law skool loans. I paid for the UG, but I really do not think he should go to law skool. The fact is, if he wasn't my kid, I would not hire him either. The truth is: he went away to skool for 4 years and $120k later his best course of action is to move back in with his mom and get his lifeguarding job back. Before he went to college, I told him to consider becoming a fireman and he could do assignments for me on his days off and I'd pay him 80% of the fees - he would have been making north of $150k a year and had bennies and retirement. He is a URM - under-represented minority to boot. I spend more than a few nights laying in bed worrying about his dumb ass. His sister will also attend law skool and should - she is a stud student and super smart.
If I had this option available, I would have never gone to law school. PS, a poly sci degree and $1 will get you a coke.
"I told him to consider becoming a fireman"
Nope. There is no way that anyone can become a fireman, UR minority or not. We have a family UR friend that has been trolling for 3 years to find an opening, anywhere.
Being a fireman actually pays better than being a Goldman Sachs trader. Run the numbers some time assuming retirement at $300,000K as a chief, with the ability to get another $300,000k on the side. The retirement alone for 20 years is $6 million. Probably worth over $10 million with a 30 year payout plus increases, transferred to spouse.
My kid has an "in" to a FD... My best buddy's uncle is a chief.
Another family friend has a relative that is a chief. The chief told him "forget it". The old family connection thing is dead. There is no way than he can shepherd an application.
Want to adopt me? I'll save you 20% of the 150k, and you don't need to provide me with bennies, wife's job has that covered!
There will be several societal changes from the college scam:
1. Graduates will get jobs that pay cash to avoid the bk problems. This will become a big problem for the govt.
2. Societal riots will start with the student populations
3. Debt issues will cause the younger generation to have fewer children. This is a demographic nightmare.
4. Colleges will go bankrupt, leaving millions of sf of buildings empty. College education will move online.
As an aside, one of my colleges asked me to contribute to their building fund for a new "green" building. While I was sitting with him I determined they were going to spend $650/sf for the building, which is at least 2x the cost of a regular building. He had no explanation.
Low interest loans for tuition + free alumni contributions + free government grants = high cost to run colleges
No kidding. My kid had to take one more class, "Senior Survey", I told him to tell those bastards to pound sand and let him do it Indy Study or on-line... Should be on-line anyway... tape a professor;s set of lectures and then run the same lectures every year with occassional updates... How much should that cost?
societal riots tend to start with the students
I know macho man - I did not tell my kids what to study. I tell my son to "stop digging" - I think he realizes that he screwed the pooch... and he just keeps chasing the rainbow. BTW, have you parents been on a college campus on say a Saturday morning - no one evern gets outta bed b/f 11 am.
Sounds to me he certainly has the personality to be a lawyer. When I was in governor's school, there was a debate among the professors regarding universal morals. I asked the victor if he had any tips for arguing. His reply, in passing walking to another event, was "the key to winning arguments is never admitting you're wrong".
I guess he can get a bloody nose from the real world and, maybe, eventually, come crawling back to daddy. Most students have no clue how awesome college is until they hit the real world. The older folks' nostalgia for college is mostly driven by the complete lack of responsibility and ability to try new things with fewer social restrictions... Part of the problem is that the more you live it up in college (debt), the more rude your awakening is when the real world punches you in the mouth.
why would anyone get outta bed before 11am sat in college? are you a camp counselor?
If you make kids get up earlier, you defeat the purpose of college... it's basically trading 4 years of freedom for a lifetime of shackling and whipping. You have to at least go through the effort of putting a carrot in front of the donkey...
PS, why would you want anyone to get up earlier? lol. You're either: (a) still drunk from the night before and/or (b) getting seconds from the skank with daddy issues that wanted to take them out on your penis...
is America really that doomed? You people scare the hell out of me...
I wish I could kiss Ben on the lips for saving our economy (Prove me wrong)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2tREd7kod8
BTW, students that will be taking loans should look into the college's flexibility in forgiving loans if they go into stuff like "public service". I think teaching counts for forgiveness programs at some skools. My buddy has a kid going to the military med skool. Gets paid too.
There is teacher forgiveness. BUT, you have to work 5 years in a district with UNDERSIRABLE demographics. Just think of the movies Dangerous Minds or Lean on Me before you choose that option!
Bankruptcy might be a no-go, but having the .gov write off some or all of your loan balance is very much doable. That's going to be the new normal.
If you have a pulse and aren't already in default, you can qualify. All you have to do is navigate the maze of red tape and shifting loan servicers.
I'm still shocked at how few people currently realize what happened to student loans and loan servicing back in 2009. It's a 1-2 trillion dollar handout, minimum... maybe we can call it Cash for Dunces. On the one hand, you have pretty much a complete nationalization, and various programs to write off your loan debt (government employees get a much sweeter deal than the rest of us peons, naturally), and on the other hand you have bizarre bi-monthly changes to fly by night contract loan servicers that are trying to fuck you over.
"the few new farmers out there are going to become rich while lawyers are standing at street corners with cups begging for money"
not if those lawyers drag these farmers through redtape hell back and forth to market...
Lawyers and bureaucrats already do that... which is why farmers aren't rich and won't be as long as the current paradigm remains. That statement about rich farmers is the only thing I disagree about with this article.
There are *cough* lawyers that specifically help farmers get the most subsidy payments possible and navigate the red tape with ease... *cough*
The mark of a good attorney is one that makes money for his client... and if not, has the balls to punt... unless its unavoidable (domestic relations).
The vast majority of people with real wealth in this area are farmers... their net worth puts virtually all professionals in the area to shame. This has a lot to do with their respective spending habits... but, still...
There is a movement underway for those interested. I will be attending with my family.
Zeitgeist: Moving Forward - World Release - 300 Venues | 60 countries
Peter Joseph's new installment of The Zeitgeist Film Series, featuring the concept of a Resource-Based Economy; in support of The Zeitgeist Movement, is now set to release in a unprecedented way come Jan 15th 2011. With Nearly 300 Main Theatrical Venues across 60 countries and in 30 subtitled languages, the interest in the non-profit, epic 162 minute film work is skyrocketing.
View the Global Map: www.zeitgeistmovingforward.com/zmap
Notable Points:
Jan. 15th 2011 - The "Global Premier" of the film will occur in Los Angeles California via The Artivist Film Festival Organization. It a will include a Q & A with Peter Joseph.
Tickets:
www.etix.com/ticket/servlet/onlineSale?action=selectPerformance&performance_id=1388387
Jan. 16th 2011 - Peter Joseph and The Venus Project will attend the New York Premiere in Manhattan and will conduct a Q & A as well.
Tickets:
www.etix.com/ticket/online/venueSearch.jsp?venue_id=7618
Zeitgeist starts off with a bang but like most rally cries, end up hollow as no one knows what to do with the mass of stupid and the protected corrupt that feeds off the stupid
Energy, food and water has to be sooooo fuckin cheap to make people play nice... so you want a nice world? kill off 80% of the people.. everyone will be friends again
Do you have a well thought out plan for killing those people? Is that your best solution, or are you just apathetic.
I'm always amazed at the some contributors on this sight who cop out because oF an everything is doomed anyways attitude.
If someone's methods or philosophy are somewhat different than what they think, the presenter is lamblalsted as being as bad as all that is wrong with today's systems.
At least this is an effort to do something that is against what many here claim to be what they are against. Perhaps it is better if the apatheitc, d lazy, and psychotic are not involved.
These have already been discussed numerous times before regarding the "movement", but I sincerely doubt a command economy has any likelihood of success. Further, you have to think of what Machiavelli said about subjects who had experienced freedom... and, as a result, their resistance to change.... presuming it is not fundamental human nature to squirrel away nuts.... or whatever units of production there may be.
My guess is that some animals end up being more equal than others... every economic system we ever develop always contains a well utilized mechanism that, upon enough use, destroys the system. I contend the desire to use such mechanisms is of fundamental origin in the human condition, which is why we keep doing it and happily plunge ourselves into the same cycles over and over again. In this sense, picking the right economic system is like voting for a politician... all the choices are bad and, despite who we pick, the system is doomed to failure. I have reservations about the resiliency of a command economy...
I don't know if it will work either, but I'm willing to try; it is better than the corrupt system in place now which is a "movement" in full swing to steal money from the middle class and poor, and to enrich the elite. The fiat fractal currency system is doomed. It would be better for future generations if we start experimenting with alternative ways of living now; otherwise it will be forced upon us later by currency collapse and food riots.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't care to cut off my nose to spite my face... if the plan doesn't even work on paper, I'm not optimistic about its chances in the real world. Reminds me of what game developers face when the world they create is inhabited by hundreds of thousands of people wanting nothing more than to test its boundaries and exploit it for their gain to the fullest extent possible (and maybe grief a little too!). What follows is generally a laughable melee of "nerfs" and balance changes that literally never cease... if videogames are too complicated for our control, think about the real world.
just because macro is doomed, doesn't mean micro is. I don't believe in an ever growing economy. Cheap oil brought the world at everyone's fingertips and old habits die hard. So who is really looking for change here? Any solution to try to preserve the current status quo is the one resisting change. Start empowering states and counties with more room to govern themselves. Have you EVER been to a local town hall meeting? Do you really think answers will come from the top down??
Zeitgeist is a great wake up call but it does NOTHING to bring people out of their house in any constructive manner.. Your local garden store Sat workshop classes is what should be shown in the theaters
The Venus Project arm of Zeitgeist does not want to promote the status quo, far from it. I don't think that you know as much about it as you think that you do. Maybe not, but that was my impression after reading your reply.
The main problem besides crony capitalism and the military complex is the limited resources. This creates the competiiton that causes war, poverty, environmental disasters and financilal corruption and collapse. Certainly I don't think major changes like the Venus Project will take hold in my lifetime, but I believe it iis a step in the right direction. Any movement that is trying to change things now will probably look different years from now, but the beginning premises of this movement seem sound for a viable future.
I would be in support of any movenent that woiuld do away with the present corrupt system. For instance, The Automatic Earth talks of gardening anfd local community involvement which Im support. People need to stop complaining about things unless they are willing to try and do something, anything.
you read this and don't see a million holes??
http://www.thevenusproject.com/a-new-social-design/resource-based-economy
like I said early - kill 80% of the people and you can get your Venus Project. Do you think there is enough cheap oil to keep everyone so happy they don't horde and barter? Unless you can shit out fission balls with energy from the sun for everyone how can any of that article work?
I thought they basically admitted that there has to be a massive shift in virtually everything in order for their proposal to work? That's what I got the last time I read through it... reading between the lines, it basically meant humanity had to be on its knees before any of their concepts would get the least bit consideration. I guess my question is that if your sales pitch only works on the most desperate of clientele, what does that say about your product?
First, kill the Vampire Squid.
Sorry, no link but I know you'll all believe this--the government has a "perverse" incentive NOT to collect on student loans coming due according to the payment schedule. If the loans go into default, each dollar lent yields MORE than one dollar due to penalties and fees and extra interest that can be charged, and, of course, all of this can be seized, conveniently, from any paycheck. If your kids have student loans, they better not ignore them.
Since my daughter refuses to even contemplate the absurdity of this situation, I have refused to provide any of my personal information including tax returns for the FAFSA and, as far as any student loans are concerned, she is dead in the water until she is 24. I'd much rather see her with her minimum wage Target job until she comes to her senses. She's none too happy with me currently, but hey, what are parents for?
Yes; it is literally a god-damned racket foisted by the very institutions these young people are halfway looking up to.
The degeneracy of our masters, even in my lifetime (just turned 50) is astonishing and the stench from Washington DC rises.
Very logical; needs to be on the front page of every newspaper and/or website as not everyone reads newspapers now. In the meantime many school superintendents are pushing for all the students to go to college!! The last I heard 20% of the jobs required college degrees. This is not even taking into account that not everyone wants to go to college or can handle college. College is vastly overrated. Excellent article.
Wait - it gets "better". The student loan lenders are able to sic bill collectors on a defaulting student and add about $100 per phone call to the loan amount. I read story after story about people's loan amounts doubling or more within a couple of years of missing payments, and had to dig around to find out why.
well, i wrapped up all of my pottery, weaving etc classes i took at CMC for years, in a program called university without walls in the 70's. i still had to pay the semester tuition, wasn't that much back then. i had to create my own curriculum. which was rather fun. never had to sit in a classroom. i had an advisor being the head figure at CMC, that looked over all of my course work, i was engaged in. i got the paper. i had to physically attend CU boulder to get my K-12 certificate. but got to do my 9th-12th student teaching at aspen high and created the first art classes for K-4th grade at aspen elementary. it was a huge success. then i decided it was too much work, to continue. plus back then not a lot of specific art classes were offered, in lower grades. thought it could just be mainstreamed in by the other academic teaches.
art and phys ed, bitchez
If someone wants to get elected to Congress, run on a platform with a single plank - making student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy. Nothing will stop the irrational inflation in tuition faster.
NIA got me into Hecla Mining at $2.85---now over 10 bux! "Pump" and whatever...good source of info and slick videos. They also said last February Silver was a huge buy...check a chart....price was $16 and change......ignore them at your own peril, as far as I am concerned.
Agree with the cost of college these days being a giant scam. I went to a state university full tuition room and board of about $20k which is long since paid off. However, the NIA I don't know about. For example, this gem:
"NIA believes that any recent high school graduate with $30,000 saved for college who invests that money into silver and becomes a minimum wage apprentice for the next 4 years..."
Silver is arguably a speculative investment (albeit a good one from my vantage point), and I had no idea you could be a "minimum wage apprentice" flipping burgers. What happens after that? Do you become a "master flipper" and make a quarter more and hour? Please name me a decent apprectice position in a field which is actually hiring today.
financial wizardry.. taught by the Blythe Witch
Aside from being just like the steve martin gag about how to make a million dollars... "first, you get a million dollars" *laughs and applause*
If I had 30k in the first place, then I can pay for the damn college already... so between ages 16 and 18 you're supposed to stuff away $30k after tax? GL with that. What is the employment rate of that demographic?
aren't they all poker champions?
I paid for all my alcohol, athletics, and other ancillary items during law school with poker winnings... at that time, it was not completely dominated by computers (not that we knew) and you could easily transfer money to various websites for a small fee without it being recorded... fast forward a few years and the whole thing took a big shit. If I want to get night at the roxbury'd by a bunch of computers, I would throw my money in the stock market.
gotta love the www.officialpayments.com banner ad above this story...pay your tuition with credit cards!
Imagine a 20-something woman with a degree in some female-dominated field, a low-paying job, and an enormous student loan debt. She meets a nerdy 30-something guy with a STEM (science/technology/engineering/math) degree, a good job, lots of savings, and no debt. They decide to get married, buy a house, and have six kids. He'll keep working and she'll be a full-time mother. Suppose they can trust each other -- this is zerohedge, not inmalafide.
Is there any legal way to keep his income from getting sucked into her debt? If they don't marry, and all family assets are in his name only, are those assets safe? They would of course forgo all the tax benefits of marriage.
I solved this problem by finding a wife in Russia. She got her worthless degree at a state school while living with her parents. There is no "debt" in Russia -- health care and education are free (albeit poor-quality), and everything else is cash-up-front.
Big education is simply the third leg to what Eisenhower called the Military-Industrial-Education complex ... the education part was conveniently forgotten by the left during the 60s, and they have been quietly turning it into the biggest money-fleecing scheme for themselves and their other friends in the academic elite, far more effectively than the military and industrial legs of the complex (though they too do a good job of fleecing us of our money). The Academic elite would otherwise be barely employable at wages comparable to the rest of the nation rather than averaging nearly twice the national per capita income. Its called payback for the electoral support.
My two cents/short story...
I graduated just this past May with a degree in biomedical engineering (BME) and found a job in that field about 3 months ago. Only took out a loan for my senior year and I'm almost halfway done paying it back (had some money left over from previous internships to help as well). I didn't enroll in their retirement plan and don't plan on it until the dust settles after Bernanke reverses his moral hazard policies (which might be never). Instead, I buy 1 silver coin/bullion bar a week from APMEX. I have the collective wisdom of ZH to thank for those decisions.
So I think there is something to be said about getting an engineering/technical degree. However, I don't think I would have done it if I had to borrow all 4 years. I'm very grateful to my parents. I will admit that I did have to move back in with them and that definitely helps with paying off the loan. The BME position is in the metropolitan area where my parents live.
As for those who borrow $80,000 to get a degree in sociology, I would advise leaving the country.
There is exactly one inevitable destination due to the student load crisis:
a non-reported shadow economy; let's hope they choose their currnecy wisely.