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Nice Work Creating New Terrorists, You Morons
Preface: This is admittedly somewhat peripheral to economics and
business. However, terrorist attacks cost many billions of dollars in
damage, and could severely depress consumer sentiment and “animal
spirits”. And, as I have previously written, unnecessary wars hurt
the economy. See this and this.
American civilian and military leaders have been creating new terrorists through their:
(1) Use of torture
and
(2) Killing of innocent civilians- especially children – in Arabic countries.
Torture
A high-level American Special Ops interrogator says that information obtained from torture is unreliable, and that torture just creates more terrorists. Indeed, he says that torture of innocent Iraqis by Americans is the main reason that foreign fighters started fighting against Americans in Iraq in the first place.
A former FBI interrogator — who interrogated Al Qaeda suspects — says categorically that torture does not help collect intelligence. On the other hand he says that torture actually turns people into terrorists.
A 30-year veteran of CIA’s operations directorate who rose to the most senior managerial ranks, says:
“This is not just because the old hands overwhelmingly
believe that torture doesn’t work — it doesn’t — but also because they
know that torture creates more terrorists and fosters more acts of
terror than it could possibly neutralize.”
Former counter-terrorism czar Richard A. Clarke says that America’s indefinite detention without trial and abuse of prisoners is a leading Al Qaeda recruiting tool.
A former U.S. interrogator and counterintelligence agent, and Afghanistan veteran said,
Torture puts our troops in danger, torture makes our
troops less safe, torture creates terrorists. It’s used so widely as a
propaganda tool now in Afghanistan. All too often, detainees have
pamphlets on them, depicting what happened at Guantanamo.
The Senate Armed Services Committee unanimously found:
“The administration’s policies concerning [torture] and the resulting controversies … strengthened the hand of our enemies.”
Two professors of political science have demonstrated that torture increases, rather than decreases, terrorism.
Killing of Innocent Civilians
The former number 2 counter-terrorism expert at the State Department says that military attacks in Iraq increase terrorism.
Indeed, Al Qaeda wasn’t even in Iraq until the U.S. invaded that country.
After the U.S. military allegedly handcuffed and then killed a bunch of Afghan kids, thousands of Afghans are protesting the brutal killings, chanting 'Death to America!'.
Nice work creating new terrorists, you morons.
Anyone who thinks this is a partisan issue should read this and this.
In related news, not only are the U.S. government's actions
creating more terrorists, but "reforms" made to the intelligence
agencies have made it MORE DIFFICULT to stop the terrorists they've created.
Idiots.
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Those aren't reliable sources and you know it.
Dumbshit. Provide evidence to the contrary before posting. Did you even read the links. Mountains of evidence. I am holding my tongue. Either you posted in full ignorance or you remain intentionally blind.
Why the hell do you even post? Read it and then post. Not a one-liner which is bullshit in and of itself.
I read the links you shit head and those source are unreliable.
Technically, I don't think HuffPo counts as a source any more than would the Weekly World News
Anonymouse,
I've seen you make some interesting posts, but somehow I am surprised to see your open animosity for something presented so clearly to you. I can only imagine one answer.
You critics have the benefits of ridicule without presenting any counterpoints. So until you, and your ilk, present an alternative view I consider you scum for either turning a blind eye and/or disseminating disinformation.
Either way you are disgusting.
You're right, it was ridicule. Just felt like poking fun last night (and it was).
Some issues just don't jazz me. This is one, particularly when it veers into 9/11 conspiracies.
I'm not interested enough on this one to do research to make counterpoints. There are just as many experts who think it does help. They say it did with Khalid Sheik Mohammed.
And I find HuffPo and Olbermann (and by extension their guests) highly questionable sources (esp. Olbermann, HuffPo is right on occasion).
So, no I'm not going to argue this one, though I might ridicule here and there for sport.
Sorry if I am scum to you. I like your avatar, though.
Can't disagree - I am guilty of nonsense as well. Peace.
No worries.
technically i don't think you are any better than
a murderer and a terrorist....
shove your imperialist we rule the world bullshit
up your ass....
Well of course they did. W was a pilot after all. And we know Bush 41 flew that SR-71 to Paris to have Ahmadinejad and fellow students hold the hostages until Reagan was inaugurated.
And when Jesus married Mary Magdalene and spawned the Knights Templar who hid the secret treasure below Wall Street with the treasure map on the back of the Declaration of Independence, that was only so they could have an independent funding source to fake the moon landing to distract us from the real catastrophe in 2012, which is of course the Halliburton-funded global warming as predicted in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Excellent. All the pieces are falling into place.
But our elected officials are still really just puppets of the truely powerful making us slaves to a faux democracy, the Chinese are cyber attacking our defense computer networks with significant successes while supporting what amounts to proxy conflicts/wars against the United States of America, Geithner is ruining/intentionally killing the remnants of the WW I and II based global economic structure, the Federal reserve's founding was a violation of many previously understood ideals (Jubalee anyone?), our president still refuses to address (never mind attempting) any meaningful change after winning a campaign based on change or engage the populace in any way to further any of the things ignorant people actually expected him to follow through on, we all eat food made using our infantile understanding of genetics however human organs can be made on laser jet printers, and pigs are learnng to fly? Right? It's all so confusing. :) At least we put a whole lot of people in prison (not bankers though), that's a good sign right?
Its more interesting how willing people are to believe these things right now. Our systems of currency and governance have created a major breach of trust, and people are willing to believe anyone that has a theory about their corruption. The reality of that corruption will probably be much worse in reality than these imagined theories would indicate. "War, what is it good for?" ...population managment(not necessarily reduction as many would say), renewed industrial production, and short term maintenance of a failing state?
Brilliantly funny stuff, Mouse. I have no comment regarding the rest of this post but got a good laugh from this.
your snarky bullshit aside you are actually correct
about bush41 and the arms for hostages deal....
daddy bush did threaten the iranian regime while
working out a deal to hold the hostages until 12:01
jan 20, 1981....
bush was in paris working out the deal in 1980 and its
details were captured by french intelligence.
thanks for reminding us of the power of the cia...
Why does ZH allow you to beclown this site? Do they believe this shit as well? Well Tyler and Marla do you believe that Special Forces Handcuffed Afghan children then executed them?
And if you do then why the fuck is anyone pretending that this government is in any shape or form redeemable...fucking take out your weapons and do something about it.
Furthermore Assclown who thinks he is clever by taking the name of a person who was enough of a warrior to sneak into the enemies camp on Christmas Fucking Eve and murder their asses...furthermore Islam has been at war with the West for FAR FAR LONGER than George Bush has been alive.
Finally BULLSHIT to the idea that torture doesn't work. And I don't care how many fellow assclowns you parade out to declare that torture doesn't work.
you have to understand something. these new type solderiers have never ever graced the inside of a church. they do not understand concepts of right and wrong. they have no moral compass. they do whatever it is they do and have no regret. they are the fruit of the loins of the baby boomer generation, the generation of peace and love and rebellion against God's laws. what can be expected from such men? we produced them. we did not teach them. now they are adults and have uniforms on and have heavy weapons and go around killing innocent people on command, in the name of freedom and our rights here at home. what we have sown, now we are reaping. what is bad about it, is that one day soon, we here, shall have to deal with these very miscreants who are doing this to innocent iraqi's and afghans and others. soon they will come home and be told to bother us here, all of course in the name of false patriotism. sir, i highly recommend you pull your head out of that dark place you have it in, and understand what is really going on here. oh and one more thing. there are many vietnam era green berets and special operations soldiers who are waiting for the call to gather at the appropriate places to counter such scumbags who will soon be turned loose on the amerikan public. this i know and this is a good thing, would you not agree.
classic chickenhawks Anon & Legrand.. then why do you think we need to sit around in these countries and soak off taxpayer dollars when we can destroy these nations, tax and pillage them and have them pay for our conquests? unless you are just a weak willed chickenhawk??
you talk shit like the rest but somehow you dont see how worthless it is to the american people how they waste our lives and money for no gain for the public
I served two tours in iraq as a marine. Ive seen innocent people shot at for sport. It happens in every war on every side. As for an execution, I find it hard to believe, but with hundred of thousands killed in Afgan. and Iraq, yeah its probably happened somewhere.
Oh and after all the shootings, guess what the town started getting hostile, and a good friend of mine was killed, but those people that killed him would have never came to America and do damage, at least I didn't get that vibe from their dead bodies.
What Davey said. +1
Thank you for your input and thank you for your service
thank you for your service?
what does this quaint little phrase mean?
after all,
do we not know that he and he alone volunteered to help the beast. it was his will and nobody pointed a gun at his head and told him to go and help the illegal and immoral and unconstitutional zionist mercenary army of the 21st century. yes sir, no one made him do it. and please. don't patronize me by telling me he is protecting my freedoms. the correct and appropriate yiddish term for that is "hogwash" after what he has done, the best thing he can do now ,is go and join up his local militia organization and teach them the art of war. what say you marine? do the right thing.....the shtf scenerio is coming. you must choose sides. there is a right. there is a wrong. there is no gray area. there are enemies within the gates. there are domestic enemies within our own government. what is done is done. nothing can change the past. the futures of our children and their children are at stake here. this war against terror should be against our true enemy and not against these muslim people who have done nothing agaisnt us, absolutely nothing. the arabs and the afghans have done nothing against us. we call them terrorist and al quaeda and the only thing they have ever done is fight us and want us to leave their lands which we have illegally invaded for no good reason. enough is enough already. it is time to come out and for us all to take a stand now before it is too late. surely after reading about all of the financial things that are befalling us now, one can assimilate the necessary information that all of this , yes all of it is somehow connected and all of it is being done on purpose and for a reason, one worold zionist communist government under noahide laws headquartered in God's Holy City, Jerusalem. But if we do nothing, it matters not. God will not let this stand, be sure you understand this. God loves liberty and freedom because He wants man to have a choice. Satan wants complete control. Satan taught Nimrod the art of government by terror and fear and this was the first time men learned that governments could be created by forcing others to adhere to your will. So let us fast forward from that ancient day, till today and we see what is coming. This grand experiment is just about over, unless we stop this insanity and do it soon. Now we have a choice, (I think). but who knows about the future. it does look dark, from here.
@188648, while I agree with the majority of your post, here are my feelings on "thank you for your service."
I grant you it is a volunteer military. Since none of us knows the motivation behind each military member's decision to sign up, I cannot condemn the servicemen and women. I imagine quite a few enlisted out of patriotism and a full swallowing of the myth being fed them (these men and women are not deserving of our contempt but rather our sympathy). Some may have enlisted out of financial hardship/inability to find any other decent paying occupation (these are also deserving of our sympathy). Some may have enlisted out of a desire to kill and maim with impunity (these are worthy of at least some contempt).
Since I cannot discern each of their motives for enlisting without speaking with each of them, I am going to err on the side of feeling that most were duped into enlisting for "patriotic" reasons. As such, they are worthy of my sympathy and my thanks to them for "defending" me (I do believe a great number of them feel they were or are defending their fellow citizens).
Also, since I agree that the shtf scenario is coming and I do want American servicemen and women to choose my side when it happens, I am not going to question enlistment motive (again, unless I can speak with the individual). Indeed, as I want them on my side, I will thank them for their service.
188648: so those who served are not victims too? someone did some quaint little thinking
I, like alot of guys, joined right after the 2001 World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. I regret it, but at the time I was 20 years old and a product of public education. I fell for the propagandhi. I won't be fooled again. Seeing the Empire up close is a HUGE eye-opener.
Absolute slander and most likely Taliban planted propaganda. I have taught kids who served in the special forces and they would no more kill a child deliberately than you would GW. Provide some real evidence or shut up.
If torture doesn't work, and I don't consider waterboarding torture, I mean the kind that maims and kills, why do all these governments in the Middle East use it, and especially why do the Taliban and Al qaeda use it. Gee, they must be creating a huge bunch of pro-democracy terrorists. And by the way, why don't you start giving some names for these "experts", and some evidence for the rest of your completely unsupported statements.
You sure know how to cut through the "leftist/liberal" script. I love the evidence you have offered up that this article is propaganda. By the way, you are a huge Clay Aiken fan.
There is no possible way these "American Soldiers" were actually Al-Qaeda or Taliban or some other radical Muslim terrorist group dressed in US-style uniforms. No - terrorist organizations have never promoted concealment of their true identities to kill women, children and other non-combatants.
The irony here is that GW doesn't accept anything from the government or pump TV at face value, but surely an unnamed source in a 3rd world, war torn country with everything to benefit by inspiring hate of the West is 100% credible.
Regarding your anti-torture position - Violence begets violence - very true. If the towers were still standing, the past 9 years would have been very different for the people of the Middle East. Also, the vast majority of tactics used in interrogation are hardly "torture". Flushing the Koran down the toilet or having red marker rubbed on your face. I guess you'd prefer we take no prisoners at all, or maybe we put them up in 5 star resorts on the taxpayer's dime like we do for domestic criminals?
GW, go find another site to spread your non-financial anti-West, pro-Muslim rhetoric.
If the towers were still standing, the past 9 years would have been very different for the people of the Middle East
violence does begat violence, why dont you use your own logic and figure out why they attacked the towers. Absolutely incredible that your history of the world begins 9 years ago. You lambast GW when you have zero value-add yourself.
wrt: torture. You get as much stupid information as you get good. Its not worth it when the price is creating legions more terrorists. The solution is not war, but fixing the stupid policies that cause people to wish your country dead.
I AM 100% in agreement with your viewpoint.
Furthermore, I'll add that it is a minority element in the U.S. that supports the behavior you described.
The REAL enemies of the average U.S. citizen would be the
owners of the U.S. FED, the owners of Goldmans Sacks,
the likes of "chickenhawk" Dick Cheney.
Thanks for the heads up, Rip Van Winkle. Now, drop the pretense, and back away from the mirror General (MacArthur).
There are those in power who want terrorism as an excuse for endless war and a cover to steal the resources from other countries around the world. Dick Cheney is certainly a chief advocate and their are legions who follow him.
yet we dont steal for US interests - just a few bloated global corps. remember when Iraq oil was suppose to pay for the war? Why don't we take it and give a little to Britain and pay off any of the others that helped like mercinaries??
remember when pallets and pallets piled high with amerikan money was shown to be transported to iraq, never to be seen again.
http://krmg.com/blogs/the_krmg_morning_news_blog/2009/02/hundreds-of-bil...
what happened to all that money? remember when the two japanese men were caught at the italian border with fake american bearer bonds? whatever happened on that deal?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/143462-strange-inconsistencies-in-the-13...
2.3 trillion missing at pentagon...
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1047.shtml
700 billion dollar tarp and the purchase of junk securities by the FED leaving the amerikan taxpayer vulnerable...
this country is being systematically looted and destroyed.
is there any other opinion that can be made at this juncture?
this post has everything to do with finances and money and all of the things that go along with that...
to wit.
http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com/
Thanks for the breaking news Rip Van Winkle. Drop the pretense, and back away from the mirror General (MacArthur).
ROTFL.
Great satire guys. Funny, funny stuff
so it wasn't worth saving all those lives because we waterboarded 3 top al qaeda terrorists?
perhaps you can explain why we are in iraq or afghanistan or any other place where we go? perhaps you can do that? we are about many things these days but saving lives is not one of them, on that you can be sure. now here we are almost a decade after 911, and still we have the coolaid drinkers talking the party line. it does get annoying sometimes.
You're living in a fantasy land and I think you should stop calling yourself George Washington. GW was a great man you're pathetic and a leech.
Torture does work. It has help find and kill key enemy operatives that would otherwise do great damage to the USA if left free.
i think you have been listening too much to neocon radio. you are a mind numbed robot. the good old usa government along with the israeli government are the real terrorist in this world and there can be no denying it.
No you dumbass. Use the brain that God gave you.
Torture does work. It has help find and kill key enemy operatives that would otherwise do great damage to the USA if left free.<<<<<
and you believe this?
you sir, are a troll and a wanker....:)
we want chumba...we want chumba.....we want chumba.....:)
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/06/torture-is-not-partisan-issue-geo...
I have said it before: torture is evil and the hallmark of the depraved.
You are right to focus on it.
I still think all those responsible for it's approval and use should be incarcerated for life.They are treasonous scumbags who have not the slightest idea what America is.
They are in fine company...with the Nazis, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, etc etc.
I never thought I would hear a Vice President argue for torture.But I did.And frankly, if the high level depravity is that entrenched, the total rape of the entire planet is hardly surprising at their tender hands.
Economic recovery?Not so much...try WW3.
So true!. I can confirm torture works. Watching relatives and friends lose their jobs, homes and the futures they imagined here in the USA.
It is torture to see the decline of our country, to know we are being lied to and misled. It is torture to see a countries people accept their own demise so readily.
And yes its turning me away from the good natured fellow i have been so far.
It is torture to anyone with a thinking, caring mind and heart how our boys and girls are sent back to Iraq on a useless mission designed to enrich a few.
It is a special torture, to do the math and realize failure but have to wait for the country to recognize it.
It is torture to see neighbors who do not know the extent of our dilemma move along in denial and therefore be unprepared when the bottom falls out.
It is torture to know what i know and remain powerless to change it for any but myself.
Barney Frank comes to mind.
Well then, the standard pro torture argument, you have been well indoctrinated.
The better argument, is not pro torture, but rather that torture in war is inevitable. And that thus torture is neither bad nor good, it's just a part of war and wars of various sorts are as old as prostitution. Both seemingly inevitable in the long run, neither one seen as good by those harmed.
But the real issue is that you would torture anyone, regardless of cause, never the less encourage other to do so. How did your childhood pet fair? Here's to hoping it was a goldfish.
How would you get someone to give you sensitive information? Turkey sandwich, cable, workout's in the sun? I just described GTMO jackass. Let the waterboarding, genital shock and whatever our CIA heros want to do in order to gain valuable information PROTECTING your non-serving, liberal, entitlement ass.