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Nigel Farage To European Parliament: "The Euro Game Is Up... Just Who The Hell Do You Think You Are? You Are Very Dangerous People"
Famous euroskeptic Nigel Farage (as seen previously here), in just under 4 brief minutes tells more truth about the entire European experiment than all European bankers, commissioners, and politicians have done in the past decade. As we have already said pretty much all of this before, we present it without commentary: "Good morning Mr. van Rompuy, you've been in office for one year, and in that time the whole edifice is beginning to crumble, there's chaos, the money's running out, I should thank you - you should perhaps be the pinup boy of the euroskeptic movement. But just look around this chamber this morning, look at these faces, look at the fear, look at the anger. Poor Barroso here looks like he's seen a ghost. They're beginning to understand that the game is up. And yet in their desperation to preserve their dream, they want to remove any remaining traces of democracy from the system. And it's pretty clear that none of you have learned anything. When you yourself Mr. van Rompuy say that the euro has brought us stability, I supposed I could applaud you for having a sense of humor, but isn't this really just the bunker [or banker?] mentality. Your fanaticism is out in the open. You talk about the fact that it was a lie to believe that the nation state could exist in the 21st century globalized world. Well, that may be true in the case of Belgium who haven't had a government for 6 months, but for the rest of us, right across every member state in this union, increasingly people are saying, "We don't want that flag, we don't want the anthem, we don't want this political class, we want the whole thing consigned to the dustbin of history." We had the Greek tragedy earlier on this year, and now we have the situation in Ireland. I know that the stupidity and greed of Irish politicians has a lot to do with this: they should never, ever have joined the euro. They suffered with low interest rates, a false boom and a massive bust. But look at your response to them: what they are being told as their government is collapsing is that it would be inappropriate for them to have a general election. In fact commissioner Rehn here said they had to agree to a budget first before they are allowed to have a general election. Just who the hell do you think you people are. You are very, very dangerous people indeed: your obsession with creating this European state means that you are happy to destroy democracy, you appear to be happy with millions and millions of people to be unemployed and to be poor. Untold millions will suffer so that your euro dream can continue. Well it won't work, cause its Portugal next with their debt levels of 325% of GDP they are the next ones on the list, and after that I suspect it will be Spain, and the bailout for Spain will be 7 times the size of Ireland, and at that moment all the bailout money will is gone - there won't be any more. But it's even more serious than economics, because if you rob people of their identity, if you rob them of their democracy, then all they are left with is nationalism and violence. I can only hope and pray that the euro project is destroyed by the markets before that really happens."
h/t Ian
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does anyone here truly believe FOFOA's take on the Euro and freegold ?
It all makes sense to me but nobody talks about it.
FoFoA was discussed (in ZH comments) this week.
Does any rational person who wants to make $$ believe in FOfucked? Nooooooooooo.
Sounds like a comment form somebody that is too fucking stupid....er sorry, unintelligent enough to understand FOFOA.
make $$$, oh the irony......
I want to make ZIM $'s. I could be a Quadrillionair in less than a week!!!!!!!!!
Central Unintelligent Agency bitchez! AKA: FoFoA, FOfucked.
The marginalisation of FOFOA even on Zerohedge and comments like this are the perfect sentiment that will probably prove the FOFOA theory right.And even allot of goldbugs with their leveraged positions in the paper gold market will lose. Remember, the market goes where it will burn the most people so under freegold, fiat bugs and allot of gold bugs will lose wealth.
FOFOA is a nut right ? yeah...he's full of shit, cant be true....
Yes your man might be right but from first hand experience I can tell you that the market can stay irrational longer than I can remain solvent. That applies to almost everyone that I know.
As a result I never become emotional about what I trade. Never a bug or a preacher. Just trade dispassionately with my stomach. When it burps if it smells sweet I buy, sour I sell.
I do like you emotional traders, you're fun to fuck with.
hahaha, some people's wealth is beyond your mouse clicking, day trading bullshit and that wealth is typically not created with mouse clicking, day trading bullshit.
Keep guessing goldbug.
you're a real fucknut, you know that?
Trading this market is like looting a burning building. When the roof collapses, you are probably going to be trapped in your positions and lose everything.
Holding physical gold and silver will not negatively affect your solvency.
Like the analogy
Yes, you have to be a real genius to understand that gold could be the final store of value. If only others were as smart as your painfully dumb ass...
Make a point or stuff it.
dp
dp
dp
it's not about making $$ anymore, you dolt. it's about reestablishing freedom for this generation and the generations that follow.
may the entire system crumble to dust.
That's a really complex and good question about whether the core European governments - especially the Germans - really have a different long-term game plan re currencies, perhaps in league with the Russians (key suppliers of European energy) and the Chinese as well.
They indeed may very quietly have a back-up plan for after the Americans are kaputski, for a currency backed by a basket of commodities including the precious metals, or something like what Jim Sinclair talks about, a currency whose quantity fluctuations are tied to precious metal reserves even if not directly backed unit for unit.
But what is true, is that there is A LOT MORE GOLD in private European hands than many people would guess, an ultra-private shadow 'off-the-books' element in a number of transactions and asset holdings. It is simply not talked about here in public, in the way that Americans do.
This is the heritage of the World Wars, and the European sense that you never know when 'the Nazis' or their equivalent are coming back. The US gov't in these decades behaves a lot like the Nazis, thus a constant reminder of the fascist problem and why some discretion is needed.
One of the conditions for euro entry is that goverments cannot tax the importation of Gold.
Maybe this is a shaky bit of evidence for the Gold Bias in Euro land.
As regards Ireland I think the ECB may make a tactical retreat and offload this country under the BOE sphere of influence.
PS the Euro strength against the Dollar for most of the decade must have been a draw for Gold out of America as this is classically the case under these conditions.
Also the personal savings / low personal debt of the western continent makes owning PMs a likely option for the middleclass in Europe which on a mean basis are more numerous and wealthy then their American counterparts.
More evidence piling up for FOFOA freegold....
And Spain? Are they the back-breaker?
Look out for a unified Germany.
Germans in league with Russians? Ummmm....no.
The current crop of idiots in office (pretty much world-wide) have no master plan, except to stay in power.
familiar with Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact?
...no one is saying it would have to last long....
So true.
Take Belgium for example. The national portfolio which doesn't wants to reveal their gold reserves.
Also, where is Leopold II his gold he honestly earned in Congo go to?
Rumors have it, that would be a total of 2300 tons of gold that is now traceless.
"Take Belgium for example" ; hmm. no thanks. You can keep it.
I'll certainly take the Belgian brews!
leopold ll was a cruel, cruel killer and exploiter. he earned nothing honestly in congo but history's curse.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.
Yes I was. Leopold was for Congo what Hitler was for Europe.
Well said!
"The US gov't in these decades behaves a lot like the Nazis, thus a constant reminder of the fascist problem and why some discretion is needed."
So true.
Sad to recognize ourselves as comparable to Nazis. It's a sad time in our country's history.
Who do you think the Nazis learned their extermination and ethnic cleansing tactics from? The good ole US...remember the Native Indians?
To be fair most civilizations have stepped on some heads in their time. Even the fucking Mongols
don'tcha know.
relativism is such a wonder.
- Ned
Maybe we need a beer summit?
"To be fair most civilizations have stepped on some heads in their time. Even the fucking Mongols"
Yes, you can even ask the American Indians about effect that European immigration had on "OUR" country. "This land is YOUR land, this land is MY land".
So now that it is "our" country. We can't blame the foreigners.
The Imperial Japaneses too. Where do you think they got their assimilation procedure they used on Koreans from? Good ole US.
Hopefully for the Koreans, the Japanese did not practise long enough so their attempt failed. If not, they would have suffered the same assimilative fate as the US negroes...
they learnt it from the 19th Century British Army (Back when Britain was the only superpower)
Blitzkrieg is based on their actions in India and Afghanistan. Concentration camps are based on the internment camps in South Africa from the Boer War.
There is a debate about whether or not Henry Ford had an influence on the content in Mein Kampf.
oh for pete's sake, this is not nazi germany. where are the camps? where are the trains? where is the psychotic madman dictator? let's stay real here.
FOFOA! Hahaha, the guy who believes hyperinflation is coming, if he waits a decade then sure, Benny is so incompetent, he couldn't inflate out of a helium factory.
FOFOA may be right, or he may be wrong. I don't know. But he makes a plausible and compelling case.
I have been buying gold since the 1980s, probably before FOFOA even was a Friend of FOA. His blog rings right with me, and I have learned a lot about gold there. Gold is a big subject.
Anyone with any wealth who does not own some physical gold is not holding the best insurance and the best wealth preservation out there. Not owning physical gold seems MUCH riskier to me than not having any.
Disclosure: 7% of my net assets are in gold. And a bit more in other PMs.
I'm not sure what case he makes, as what little I've read seems to be some ad-hoc attempts to satisfy the wet-dreams of gold bugs through the use of incomplete and twisted logic. If there's a central thesis somewhere on his site, a link would be appreciated, as I do keep an open mind. But so far, the little I've seen appears to be far from impressive. The only other thing that I've seen are the crazy claims that everything is hyperinflation, from supposed FOFOA fans. I've seen people claim that when prices go up, that's hyperinflation. And when prices go down, that's hyperinflation. Truly a hammer seeing nothing but nails. With the predicitive ability reduced to below zero. Witness the recent miss by many who thought that the dollar was doomed, and about to implode last September.
So if there's a central thesis, please do share. I'd honestly be delighted to evaluate it.
Eternal,
FOFOA foresees a big jump in the price of gold as its wealth preservation feature becomes more clear. He also believes that the paper COMEX price is a bad indicator of the real value of gold.
He is saying that "Freegold" will come. That gold will no longer be tied to any currency. That it will just be allowed to float in value against other currencies, currency has no wealth preservation effect, it just promotes easy transactions.
I am grossly simplifying and overgeneralizing his line of thought. To better understand his case, you will have to go to his blog, and do a LOT of reading. If you LIKE gold, then I would encourage you to do it. If you do NOT like gold, then the rather large time investment and brain effort likely is not worth it for you.
I kind of think that those of us who buy into (even partly) may be bad spokesmen for FOFOA. His blog is the best place to understand his case. Like Ron Paul's fans (me inc.). And unfortunately, it is a fairly hard slog to figure it all out. Been hard for me anyway, and I think he has a lot of knowledge and expertise to share.
fofoa.blogspot.com
Thanks. I was looking more for his own condensed view of things. From what I've read so far, it's not worth the time when it's apparent that he doesn't understand the big picture or the dynamics. Or so it appears, from my limited reading. I fully admit I may have missed something. But if one can't condense things down so that one's grandmother can understand it, then you don't know what you're talking about (to use Enrico Fermi's famous quote).
I do apparently agree with a number of points, but from what I've seen, he doesn't understand what will happen before then. E.g. I agree that the dollar will eventually destruct. But a number of things have to happen before then.
I would beware of being long gold. Gold and other asset prices collapse when there are massive margin calls. But I am invested in Silver and will be picking up more shortly. When certain key COMEX watchers use the term "breaking the bank", that is noteworth, IMO.
@ Eternal
Here are some of FOFOA's own words, making his case in as few words possible at the request of one of his readers:
Gold is not going to back the M1 or M2 or some basket of international currencies. It is not going to be some sort of NWO gimmick. It is going to float, just like it does today, only from a much more restricted supply once paper-promise-gold hits that inevitable wall.
So if you'd like to get in on the receiving end of this transition, Buy. Physical. Gold. Now. As someone once said. The non-inflation adjusted value of gold, its value relative to today's prices, like a $2 loaf of bread, is going to somewhere between $30,000/oz. and $100,000/oz. once we're dealing with a global physical market. That means an ounce will be worth between 15,000 and 50,000 loaves of bread, anywhere in the world, just to be clear, since I see so many people say "what good is $50,000 gold if bread costs $100?"
How's that? Is it direct enough? Or should I work on my delivery?
...
From his comments section of his article of November 5.
Thank you. Also for what he means by free gold. I'll have to disagree with the "now" part. But on a longer timeframe, it sounds like I'd be in more agreement.
As for now, I'm buying wheat berries (not flour) over gold. There's going to be a tremendous buying opportunity for gold later on, IMO.
+1 Country Living grain mill.
Buy both. It seems to me that if you are concerned enough to be prepping food, you are making a rather large assumption that there will be buying opportunities for gold later. You may be right. But if you aren't, what does it hurt to pick up an ounce or three now?
Although I would say that if buying a couple ounces presents one with a financial strain (not making assumptions about you in particular), they are much better off with the wheat berries.
Agreed. I've mentioned before that I already have one. I'd also add that you need to learn how to use it, and learn how to make bread. The latter is quite fun, with the benefit of better tasting bread for a lot cheaper than you can buy at the store.
People keep complaining about the price of bread going up. Heh. Not for me.
I'm also working on how to add a solar driven motor and battery to my mill. These are all things which are hard to do if things come to pass that you really need to depend on your preparations.
How about just plain old in inflation? Forget the hyper version. The Fed has a mechanism for dialing up the velocity of US currency at will and they have never used it. On top of this, they have ramped up QE2 to "stimulate". They are not stimulating anything domestic. This is a bare-faced ploy to force the Renembi upward in an attempt to correct trade imbalances. Excess dollars will flow to the best 'story' of return. This points toward the far East. Jacking the moneys available to China will cause more dollars to flow there. Those dollars have to be converted to local currency to be invested. Buy Renembi and sell dollars...what happens to the exchange rate, pegged or not? In extremis, the Yuan will be forced off the peg.
In case the latin confused anyone in that last sentence, it means "after you have gone broke trying to short the Remembi" China will put up a fight over this and I don't mean bithching at the G20.
What about art? I don't like the idea of hiding gold in a shoebox somewhere. I'm looking into art.
It sounds compelling but the reality of it seems to be fraying. Making a plan for something to happen doesn't mean the competition will do nothing to combat that stance. It seems to be fraying......I'm skeptical....
Related:
"Desperate fight to save the euro. Survival crisis for the single currency as fears of further bailouts rise in Spain, Portugal and Belgium"http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/desperate-fight-to-save-t...
Yes, british newspapers are full of euro-demise articles these days. Says a lot .... about the Brits.
It says nothing about the British, except that they were correct to avoid the Euro.
The Euro is a nice idea but a flawed concept under its current implementation and always has been.
The british press hasn't hidden the fact that Sterling is under threat.
do the people here understand what he's saying ?
if you live in ohio and you have an issue you should be able to go to your capital and get redress. but what if you have to go to washington DC for all redress because ohio has seeded all power to Washington DC, and if a different state who has more power than you controls Washington your screwed plus its alot harder to get redress from that distance.So instead of having 50 states with differnt agendas who can experiment with diferent money policies or what ever solutions they seek. Now if you have States that had been counties imagine how divergent they're wants and needs and solutions, how was this ever going to work longterm unless strong dictatorial control ?
Indeed. Could you imagine being stuck on a small island (like Britain) with the likes of FartAge?
Hi
Too bad the market is closed today cause that's 20 points on ES right there.
PolishHammer,
20 points up or down?
DavidC
Say it how it is Nigel,shame your not PM.
“Just who the hell do you think you people are?" -I’ve heard Nigel Farage many times. He’s the real deal. Here he is surrounded by scumbag Von Rompouy and the rest of the political puppet euro-traitors.
+++
Yes, look at them in this video... a more reptilian bunch you couldn't hope to meet (except on Capitol Hill, of course)
Stupid brit dog barking...you Yanks want them...SOLD!
You mean we can have all of the British barking dogs? What was so stupid about what he said? Is he a faker? Make your point of view known if there is something to be learned and save the name calling.
williambanzai7
Where the fuck did the horror tranny pic go?
Goddamn it!
He is in the shop being tuned up ;-)
You better pray Herman doesn't unleash the powers of the Haiku on you!
Maybe too much information....
http://beta.ca.news.yahoo.com/u-tells-ottawa-pending-wikileaks-release-d...
Oh my God!
T'is odd is it not, that a government for, of and by its people should find itself embarased by those very people realizing of its actions?
Ah, now that nailed it, but you need an M1A1 in there somewhere, and he's looking a bit too smug and confident of his own BS.
Jones and Keiser Driving the News
How many of you have noticed the change in news? The flavor of the news has markedly “changed” in the past 4 or 5 months – have you noticed it? Who has picked up on the likes of Fox News’ Glen Beck and his ‘about face’ on many key issues. Over the past number of months personalities like Beck have completely reversed their positions on subjects like the existence of World Government and FEMA CAMPS – going from complete denial to admitting they exist and the fact that they are intended for the American people.
Beck is not alone. In recent weeks we’ve seen a similar reversal in position from none other than Geraldo Rivera – he’s flip-flopped on his public position on 9/11:
Geraldo Rivera, who in the past labeled 9/11 truthers as nutcases, seems to have gotten the message. Not only did Rivera give air time to two people on the front lines of the 9/11 Truth movement, he also aired Larry Silverstein telling the world that they had no choice but to “pull it.”
Without a doubt, these are MAJOR recent reversals of position by key mainstream commentators.
So what’s behind the change?
http://news.silverseek.com/SilverSeek/1290693798.php
The truth is freakin' scary. If it hit the mainstream that 911 was an inside job and/or that a cartel of bankers/oligarchs have co-opted the presidency for insidious purposes --
a lot of people would probably have to go on meds
a lot more people would probably not care at all though. The new America.
Its a bit of a dog's dinner isn't it?
Farage at his best :-) There are few older good videos of him on GooTube - I remember one from early 2008 in which he warned the EU parliament about what was going to happen.
lolz.. that was awesome.
He probably needs a wheelbarrow to carry around his ball's...
make waaaaaaaaaaaaayy for m' balls!!!
looks to me like what is right about the Euro is what is wrong with it. Printing it is a bitch
From a FOFOA perspective, the very political uncertainty/intractibility caused by the Euro system of governance may also be intentionally built in for good reason: to ensure that the printing presses can't run. To me, the supranational nature of central banking makes it easy to consider the idea that the Euro currency could continue functioning long after the political ties that bind have come lose.
Exactly as Nigel Farage pointed out. The system must collapse NOW, the alternative is more and more of this madness, pretend bailouts, money printing, and hyperinflation - a worse outcome.
Logically, many systems should collapse now, but they don't know they're dead. The hidden money powers are behind the scenes doing their best making sure the collapse is suitable.
There is yet some blood to be squeezed from the world turnip.
When the looting is over the oligarchs will relent and let the world collapse into chaos.
They will be snug on their newly purchased Greek isles.
and to escape the hot summers, they can always go to their more cooler little new island called Ourland, formely known as Ireland.
Aye, the most fundamental of explanations possible.
Distractions, diversions, men! More and bigger! Yes, servants know and are restless, yet enough loot remins to make us wealthy.
T'is all the difference, that wealth.
Perseverance whilst we collect the last talents, by God!
You are assuming they are in it for the money and will just retire to an island when they have "enough". That's not the way the ruling class works.
There is no way they will let the world collapse into chaos ... only slavery. Fear of chaos is their tool and, in past centuries, has always led to the restoration of the monarchy.
You are probably more right. I was just thinking of what I would do in similar circumstances. But, I'm lazy and don't have visions of ruling the world. Hell, I'm not even motivated to mow my own grass.
:)
That was actually how my world domination visions got started :)
Didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't smoke everything you mow?
well, there you go again...that damned picture of your avatar sooo fits your word delivery...always cracks me up...:)
So true. Well said
The point is to increase and refresh the pigman's claims on the assets as collapse unfolds. Disorderly default would degrade claims, so they will string it out and increase or reinforce their claim and eventually negotiate what their part of the carcass is.
Each bailout refreshes their claims and leverage, so if the Euro and EU Commission are snafu, the illusion of ordered ‘continuity’ they will present to the public, as worthy of maintaining in chaos, means they will still get to bite off some bleeding meat.
They're keeping their eye on the ball's trajectory and angling for the biggest bite of assets (not money) they can convince others to still allow to occur.
Germans have already started their Der Prozess regarding possible defaults of EU countries, meaning there is a lot of going behind the scenes and Merkel is already hinting 2013 as deadline to the new system.
That is no longer 2012?
Agreed. Merkel's almost obsessive insistence on a haircut mechanism post 2013 or even as soon as 2011sets a hard deadline for either a boycott of bonds then or the ecb coming in with liquidity facilities ad infinitum.
Either Germany or the periphery bids the euro adieu or we get a massive global debasement with Fed, Ecb, Boj and the yuan peg party.
and Merkel is already hinting 2013 as deadline to the new system.
2013? How the fuck can things last until 2013? In 6 months, Europe has already spent their entire bailout fund. They have little control over these events, these are wish lists to stretch things out for years. Besides which Merkel is out of power in 2013, so yeah it becomes a self-serving idea that the next guy will handle it.
Easy, they will get some Benny bux to keep them going. Why should the Fed be the only ones with the technology known as the printing pres?
http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a468/goldsaver/IMAG0115.jpg
END THE FED should be on every FR Note!
Then we need some diversification, things like "The CIA Built Tora Bora", "Osama is Dead" , "The Media Is Disinformation", and maybe a few thousand notes should say "PsychoNews" on them.
OK, OK, the last one is kind of out of self-interest...
http://psychonews.site90.net
PsychoNews: Exposing the Oligarchy, one Psycho at a time.
Thanks to the European union we didn't have a war for over 60 years now.
Once it breaks ups again...
I do not believe that.
Neither do I.
The Germans have learnt their lesson, and the French and Spanish aren't into imperialism any more, either.
I wouldn't want to second guess the others' national psyches but no one else in Europe is large enough to start invading anyone else.
If you disagree, SD, I'd be interested to hear your analysis.
Not really. Nuclear warheads had a lot more to do with it.
Are you kidding?
When was the last time you read a history book?
Kid, don't try it.
I know a lot more about history then all the history disney movies you've ever seen.
He knows more, because not only did he watch all the Disney history movies; he also read some articles in the Sunday Newspaper. So there. An interesting case where the avatar gives a big hint as to the wisdom of the owner.
i personally think that europe's peaceful nature stems from the "piss in a light socket" effect post WWII....Besides, if WAR ended up breaking out in Europe again it'd kill half the muslims on the planet...
(i didn't junk ya btw SD)
God bless the 60 year old EU. Wait, what?
European history showed that every 30 to 35 years, there was a continental war.
Since WO II, this didn't happen anymore.
There have been several attempts to create the union in the form that it is now.
And what changed after the end of WWII, praytell?
Here's a hint: it had nothing to do with loss of soverienty. Also, it destroyed two Japanese cities in a brilliant flash of light, heat, and gamma radiation. Those things make it kind of hard to move troops around in formation, or to occupy another country without returning home to find your entire nation turned into the world's largest contiguous peice of glass.
I think you're suffering from a bad case of post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
Logical fallacy, of correlation implying causation?
My favorite is the "Escalation of Commitment" logical fallacy. You see it all the time in politics in Central Banking. They have committed to bailouts and currency devaluation, and to reverse course now, well, not only would that not serve the Oligarchy, it would suggest that politicians and central bankers were... wait for it... WRONG!!! *gasp*
So the best way to avoid being wrong is of course, denial! As long as you deny it, or blame it on China (in the case of currency debasement), you don't have to take responsibility! What a world!
http://psychonews.site90.net
PsychoNews: Exposing the Oligarchy, one Psycho at a time.
Yes... 'Good money after bad' etc.
'Mustn't pull out of Afpak now, it would mean the gallant sacrifices of all our brave lads were for nothing', blah blah blah...
and don't forget...ipso facto eritus sicut dei quad persona non grata....y'allz
Nonsense! How old is the "European Union"? It was NATO and the threat of the USSR which kept Europe out of its long history of infighting from 1945 until the mid 90's. Then we saw with the dissolution of Yugoslavia, the old ethnic animosities rise up again. And where was the European Union while ethnic cleansing was going on? Talking! and doing nothing! Next time do a little history research before making sweeping comments huh?
No you are talking rubbish. Unless you've managed to travel to a different dimension and know for a fact that a major European war would've taken place and would've been prevented by the EU being in place you are talking rubbish.
I'd also suggest you have a look at the Yugoslav wars and ethnic cleansing problems, just how effective was the EU in moving in to put a stop to it. It was the US which came and put a stop to it. The EU was utterly impotent.
In fact these policies, as pointed out, could mean the EU is responsible for a major war. Without the EU the Greeks and Irish etc would not have been able to borrow so much, they would not be facing such major social and economic unrest right now.
These MEPs are, for the most part, low calibre individuals. I personally know someone who became a councillor in the UK (for you Americans this is the lowest level local government official), was horrible at it, schmoozed with the right people in the Conservative party and hey presto, is now an MEP. This is not the exception to the rule either, it is the rule.
Brilliant. So allowing people in large trends of consumption does not appease tensions in your world?
The delusion or the duplicity is thicker than I thought.
So Greece and Ireland would've been in the same situation right now had they never been in the EU and been able to borrow at lower interest rates?
In fact what you're saying the the EU is good because it allowed them to consume and delayed these events?
lol.
Not in the same situation.
They would have consumed less and trapped less wealth on their territory.
As I cant but acknowledge that consumption is somehow desired by many accross the world, by this standard, they would have been in a less good shape.
And dont come with the debt. The whole game is not about paying back the debt. On the contrary, the whole game is about going deeper into debt. Fact: Ireland just received more money to sustain their consumption.
The people who are screwed in the story are every person who rely on the future consumption that is brought in to present days through debt mechanics.
Certainly not countries who have grown fatter thanks to the debt.
Was Iceland part of the EU, was it part of the Euro? Did they suffer from the same things (in worse) than Greece and Ireland?
Was the UK part of the Euro?
People usually take the Iceland train far too late, only looking at the latest events. By chance, I got interested in Iceland in the mid 1980s.
While I usually shrink from the plan type conspiracy theory, I can tell that the Icelanders designed the plan that led them where they are.
Their position was simple: their country is located on the periphery of a huge consumption zone, a consumption sink (Europe center).
This leads goods to move to the consumption zone without ever stopping to Iceland. That is the ghost town effect, illustrated many times in the US. You know, when a city saw less and less trains stop by as it was more profitable to retain the cargo to sell it to the mega city nextby.
Iceland has several options: one was to sit back and watch the trains full of cargo pass by. Another was to give incentives to the trains to stop.
They chose the second option and their standard of life has been increased by many times.
Iceland has been successful on that and it is a much bigger shape than if they did not do it.
Not only that, but they also benefit from a soft punishment. What they did is nothing new and countries which tried it before were usually punished. Normal punition was to extract more wealth from them than they did manage to trap thanks to their scheme. Iceland's punishment was more in the line with keep what you stole and strive to steal at a slower rate.
Al89
"I'd also suggest you have a look at the Yugoslav wars and ethnic cleansing problems, just how effective was the EU in moving in to put a stop to it. It was the US which came and put a stop to it."
We did need Camp Bondsteel. And according to James Blunt Clarck tried to start WW3.
http://hannah.smith-family.com/archive/000959.html
Camp Bondsteel and America?s plans to control Caspian oil
By Paul Stuart
29 April 2002
Camp Bondsteel, the biggest ?from scratch? foreign US military base since the Vietnam War is near completion in the Yugoslav province of Kosovo. It is located close to vital oil pipelines and energy corridors presently under construction, such as the US sponsored Trans-Balkan oil pipeline. As a result defence contractors?in particular Halliburton Oil subsidiary Brown & Root Services?are making a fortune.
In June 1999, in the immediate aftermath of the bombing of Yugoslavia, US forces seized 1,000 acres of farmland in southeast Kosovo at Uresevic, near the Macedonian border, and began the construction of a camp.
Camp Bondsteel is known as the ?grand dame? in a network of US bases running both sides of the border between Kosovo and Macedonia. In less than three years it has been transformed from an encampment of tents to a self sufficient, high tech base-camp housing nearly 7,000 troops?three quarters of all the US troops stationed in Kosovo.
...
Another of Jim Jones' "lillipads" now through their steroid bulk-up phase. Gotta blame Rummy again. - Ned
To speak about war in Europe (EU) today is as absurd as speaking of a new civil war in the US. No, it is even more unrealistic come to think of it. Yes, the EU is military impotent when it comes to external actions, but that is by design. Refering to the Balkan wars is therefore somewhat irrelevant. You need strong tensions in the socio-political and ecnomomic climate in order to get a war, and there is still a generation in Europe who remember first hand what it means to have a war on domestic soil. Can you say that of the US?
Trade barriers that have been removed within the EU have meant that the economies, particularly in continental Europe, have grown increasingly interdependent, so a war wouldn't benefit anyone.
Yes, the Euro will probably collapse or become the currency for a few member states, and yes the EU will lose considerable amount of steam as a political project. But let's be realistic. There will be no intra-European war.
I don't think there will an intra-European war either, but the EU can't take the credit. If anything, the existence of the EU is more a symptom of European peace than vice-versa.
To the extent it has contributed to intertwined European economies, it can. That was one of the basic ideas behind the Community. There are of course other contributing factors as well.
The EU has won the wars without engaging in military wars.
The EU has been around since 1952. If any of you think 58 years is a long time and is indicative of the dawn of a new era and eternal peace in Europe you need you heads examined. 58 years is nothing, it is a flicker. But for some reason 'This time it's different' right?
Yes, it was different after the 30 years war, after the Napoleonic Wars, after WW1 after WW2 etc.
I'm not saying there will be a war of course, but discounting the possibility of this black swan based on a 58 year long failed union is stupid to say the least. People have a habit of looking at the last few decades, thinking of them as the way things will be forever and thinking of the past as being a different world.
Right now I see social unrest, that may or may not translate into rising nationalism. But it depends on the politicians. Sadly decades of experience tells us they are all idiots. As we know it only takes a small group of very clever extremists to step in and tell the angry impoverished masses what they want to hear.
The EU is just another Talmudic Jew project sponsored by Rothschild...EU leaders are all trying to save this IDIOTIC JEW PROJECT...
WWII was for the creation of Zionist Israel...
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367
Don't forget--
Israel did 9/11 - ALL THE PROOF IN THE WORLD-------------
Father of European Union -- Coudenhove Kalergi a Zionist
Postby CrackSmokeRepublican » Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:19 am
The family of (Samuel Moses) Del Branco in 1559 moved from Italy to Germany taking the name Warburg. In 1798, the family founded the bank of M. M. Warburg & Co. Paul Warburg was a German immigrant arriving in America together with his brother Felix. Both brothers, who were Illuminati and also member of B'nai B'rith, became partners of the banking house Kuhn, Loeb & Co.
The well-known freemason James Paul Warburg said before the US Senate on 17 February 1950: "We shall have World Government, whether we like it or not. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent."
Paul Warburg was married to Nina Loeb, daughter of the banker Salomon Loeb. Kuhn, Loeb & Co., of the most influential finance company in the United States in the early 1900s. Paul's brother Felix Warburg was married to Frieda Schiff, whose father was the notorious Jacob Schiff. Schiff, a leading Zionist, was the principal owner of Kuhn, Loeb & Co. He had helped finance Lev Trotsky when the bolsheviks seized power. Prior to that, he had helped Alexander Kerensky (Aron Kiirbis) to power. Jacob Schiff had further ordered Lenin to execute the tsar family, as demonstrated by the telegram he
sent to Lenin.
Coudenhove-Kalergi in his autobiography:
"At the beginning of 1924, we received a call from Baron Louis de Rothschild; one of his friends, Max Warburg from Hamburg, had read my book and wanted to get to know us.
To my great surprise, Warburg spontaneously offered us 60,000 gold marks, to tide the movement over for its first three years ....
Max Warburg, who was one of the most distinguished and wisest men that I have ever come into contact with, had a principle of financing these movements.
He remained sincerely interested in Pan-Europe for his entire life.
Max Warburg arranged his 1925 trip to the United States to introduce me to Paul Warburg and financier Bernard Baruch."
Finance theorist Ludwig von Mises (supported by a grant from the Rockefeller Foundation) also participated in Coudenhove-Kalergi's Pan-European Movement.
Later von Mises disciples Arthur Burns and Milton Friedman spread von Mises ideas through a network of secret 'conservative' think tanks, led by the Mont Pelerin Society.
Coudenhove Kalergi was not Jewish himself. On his fathers side he was of mixed European descent (Flemish. Chech Hungarian Greek) with lots of nobility.
His mother was a Japanese from an aristocratic family.
He married the 13 year older Jewess Ida Roland [born Ida Klausner] a popular actress with whom he has two sons. Ida Roland died in 1951. In 1952 he married Alexandra Gräfin von Tiele, born Bally. In 1969 he married the Austrian Jewess Melanie Benatzky Hoffmann.
Richard Coudenhove Kalergi
Richard Nicolaus
Coudenhove Kalergi
1894-1972
Count R. N. Courdenhove-Kalergi is seen by many as the father of the modern European Union. It was him who suggested Beethovens hymn as the EU's national anthem, and was very active in connection with the design of the EU logo which contains 12 stars which symbolize the 12 tribes of Israel. The logo was finalized by the Jew Paul M.G. Lévi. 2)
Otto von Habsburg was Coudenhove-Kalergi's successor as president of the Pan European Union. He is a honorary professor of the University of Jerusalem, and recipient of the 'International Humanitarian Award', of the 'Anti Defamation-League' (ADL) of the Jewish B’nai B’rith Masonery Lodge.
Coudenhove-Kalergi's father was a close friend of Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism.
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=12459
Did that stop WW2 from happening?
Of course not, but there is necessarily not a single factor that by its own causes or stops a particular event from taking place.
"But let's be realistic. There will be no intra-European war."
The EU and its phony egalitarianism serves as a paper-thin cover for centuries of ethnic and political animus. Europe is long overdue for a good old-fashioned bloodletting that leaves millions dead and rearranges the borders. All that's missing are a couple of "strong" leaders.
Well, there has never been a better time politically for them to raise their heads. I expect them soon, they will say everything we want to hear. Politicians are despised, economies in turmoil.
We will see in the next 5 years.
Ha ha ha!!! You really believe that there are no Nationalistic feelings in the member states? That 60 years without a war in the continent means that there cant be one? You are a fool. The first 40 years were framed by the palpable threat of the Soviet Union. People lived their lives as if didnt exist, but could easily see that the threat was real. Today there is no common enemy uniting the continent.
Do you really believe that when the ECB bail out funds run out and Spain defaults on their debts that other EU members wont retaliate with economic warfare? Do you believe that the Spanish wouldn't build up an anti-German fervor in order to unify their sheeple? Or Greece politicians wouldn't confiscate Italian and German property "for the good of the people"?
Or that Germany wouldn't invade a non paying member of the EU that defaults? They would call it land reparations. Think France invading Western Germany prior to WWII.
Specially with an isolated and economically emaciated US?
Hunger brings out the worst in people. The continent has a long tradition for violence.
Heck there are massive private debt bubbles in EVERY country in the OECD. No exception.
Iceland wasn't part of the EU nor the Euro. It didn't stop them from being the first ones to go bust because of their massive debt bubble and see major social and economic unrest.
And I love how Farage claims that if Ireland and Greece hadn't joined the Euro they wouldn't have suffered from low interest rates, a fake boom and a massive bust. Strange how his own country, the UK, never joined the Euro yet has the biggest private debt and real estate bubble of all of Europe...
The difference is that the UK can (will) swindle its creditors through inflation, saving its citizens quite a lot of pain.
Neither Greece nor Ireland (or Portugal or Spain or etc) can do this - because of their membership of the EMU.
Firstly Farage didn't make this claim. He said Ireland wouldn't have suffered from low interests a fake boom and a massive bust if it hadn't joined the EU. Which is patently untrue.
Secondly I found strange that someone on ZH writes that inflation benefits "citizens". It benefits those who have consumed too much and have large debts. It doesn't benefit those who saved. Citizens include both savers and debtors.
Thirdly, it doesn't seem like this is the route chosen by Britain under Cameron. Cameron is putting in place austerity measures that are at least on par with those of Ireland. I haven't seem the GBP devaluating against the Euro since he got elected. So it's a political decision whether to swindle creditors to the benefit of debtors and it doens't seem like that's the route chosen by Britain.
So Farage shouldn't have said this. He should have said, If Ireland hadn't joined the Euro it could have tried to devaluate its currency in order to ease pain for its indebted citizens and swindle those of them who saved.
I wonder why he didn't say this? hmmmm.... Because he knows very well that is suicidal politically. So he prefers to talk some nonsense.
I didnt. The predominant mindset in the West is the gang mentality. Citizens means members of one's gang. Therefore it might exclude citizens who saved to mean citizens who did not save (the members of one's gang)
The second thing is that saving is the losing way in a consumption game.
Been hammering for now one year and more that the whole game was about getting deeper into debt. Savers are only sparing resources that the other players are going to consume right now.
And it is how it unfolded. Strong countries found ways to get deeper into debt. Nothing to pay back the debt has been introduced.
Sustainability of a debt is not a given. Debt implies that in a near future, there will be enough resources to reproduce the acts of consumption you go into debt in the present.
The chosen path is clearly to consume now instead of relying on a potential possibility of consuming later, possibility that is less and less likely to exist.
I dislike the monetary sleights of hand perpetuated by the central banking cartel as much as the next ZHer.
However - if faced with the choice of 'moderate' inflation to swindle creditors (mainly the banks), or the complete collapse of Exter's pyramid, which destroys pretty much everyone, I'd go for the former.
"Moderate" inflation swindles everyone who has no income, low income or stagnant income, mainly the lower and middle classes, not the banks who could care less about inflation as that will just lead to more money printing which they love. So you'd rather destroy everyone who put something into the system than the rotten system that is killing people slowly.
So you'd rather pull the bandage off slowly for prolonged, constant pain than immediate, intense pain by pulling it fast to get it over with.
I dont think so. I live in Germany and feel pretty good about our neighbours. I think nationalism is far less important for the people in the younger generations. At least thats what i feel.
True.
And to be honest: if there would ever be a new war in Europe, I would be on the first flight out :)
Yeah, because Germans are not nationalistic when it comes to football. Do you think it would be any different if Greece confiscated German property in Greece? Or if Spain invaded France in a bid to unify their hungry people? Shit, Europeans beat each other on the streets over football, war would be as natural as breathing.