This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Is Nobel Peace Prize Winner Obama More Brutal than Bush?
Bush is correctly regarded as a lying, war-mongering, torturing tyrant.
Is Nobel peace prize winner Obama even worse?
Many governments, U.S. congressmen and other individuals have demanded that Obama return his Nobel peace prize for bombing Libya without congressional approval.
Bush got us into 2 wars to protect our strategic national interests in ... er ... broccoli. Obama just got us into a third war for the same reason. Bush's decision to invade Iraq was met with large protests. Similarly, most Americans didn't want Obama to get involved in Libya.
The Bush administration funded terrorist groups (and see confirming articles here and here). Obama is allegedly funding terrorist groups in Iran, and is now aiding the Libyan "rebels", even though there are allegations that 1,000 of them are Al Qaeda radicals (and there are some indications that their leader is a CIA asset).
Obama has increased the number of drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen
and elsewhere. Indeed, most people who have looked at the numbers
believe that Obama has killed many more civilians with drone attacks
than Bush did using the same method.
The Brookings Institution noted in 2009:
Critics
correctly find many problems with this program, most of all the number
of civilian casualties the strikes have incurred. Sourcing on civilian
deaths is weak and the numbers are often exaggerated, but more than
600 civilians are likely to have died from the attacks. That number
suggests that for every militant killed, 10 or so civilians also died.
And drone strikes are often based on scant evidence in the first place. And killing innocent civilians with drones is one of the main things which increases terrorism (and see this).
Former
constitutional law teacher Glenn Greenwald says that - in his defense
of state secrecy, illegal spying, preventative detention, harassment of
whistleblowers and other issues of civil liberties - Obama is even worse than Bush.
Indeed, Obama has authorized "targeted assassinations" against U.S. citizens. Even Bush didn't openly do something so abhorrent to the rule of law.
Obama is trying to expand spying well beyond the Bush administration's programs. Indeed, the Obama administration is arguing that citizens should never be able to sue the government for illegal spying.
Obama's indefinite detention policy is an Orwellian nightmare, which will create more terrorists.
And as I noted in 2009, in a post entitled "Can Nobel Prize Winner Obama At LEAST Stop the Torture?":
You may assume that things have changed after President Obama was sworn in.
However,
the Obama Department of Justice is trying to protect torture memo
writer John Yoo. As constitutional law expert Jonathan Turley notes:The
president literally has gotten onto a plane this evening to go to
Norway to accept the Nobel Prize, while his Justice Department is
effectively gutting a major part of Nuremberg.
The Obama
administration is arguing not only that they shouldn't be prosecuted,
but it's now saying that you shouldn't even be able to sue them civilly
.... It's an international disgrace.
Well, it may be a disgrace, but at least torture isn't continuing under the Obama administration, right?
In fact, many reporters have said that the Bagram prison facility in Afghanistan is worse than Guantanamo ever was. Moreover, abuse is apparently still occurring there.
As Spiegel wrote on September 21, 2009, in an article entitled "Prisoner Abuse Continues at Bagram Prison in Afghanistan":
US
President Barack Obama has spoken out against CIA prisoner abuse and
wants to close Guantanamo. But he tolerates the existence of Bagram
military prison in Afghanistan, where more than 600 people are being
held without charge. The facility makes Guantanamo look like a "nice hotel," in the words of one military prosecutor...Bagram
is "the forgotten second Guantanamo," says American military law
expert Eugene Fidell, a professor at Yale Law School. "But apparently
there is a continuing need for this sort of place even under the Obama
administration."From the beginning, "Bagram was worse than
Guantanamo," says New York-based attorney Tina Foster, who has argued
several cases on behalf of detainee rights in US courts. "Bagram has
always been a torture chamber."And what does Obama say? Nothing.
He never so much as mentions Bagram in any of his speeches. When
discussing America's mistreatment of detainees, he only refers to
Guantanamo.Obama still never mentions Bagram.
Spiegel continues:
From
the beginning, Bagram was notorious for the brutal forms of torture
employed there. Former inmates report incidents of sleep deprivation,
beatings and various forms of sexual humiliation [and rape with
sticks]...
At least two men died during imprisonment. One of
them, a 22-year-old taxi driver named Dilawar, was suspended by his
hands from the ceiling for four days, during which US military personnel
repeatedly beat his legs. Dilawar died on Dec. 10, 2002. In the
autopsy report, a military doctor wrote that the tissue on his legs had
basically been "pulpified." As it happens, his interrogators had already known -- and later testified -- that there was no evidence against Dilawar...
However attorney Tina Foster feels that the new initiative is just a cosmetic measure. "There
is absolutely no difference between the Bush administration and the
Obama administration's position with respect to Bagram detainees' rights," she says during an interview with SPIEGEL in her office in the New York borough of Queens.And see this.
Moreover, Obama is still apparently allowing
"rendition flights" - where prisoners are flown to countries which
freely torture - to continue. This itself violates the Geneva Convention
and the War Crimes Act of 1996.
Specifically, to the extent
that the U.S. is sending prisoners to other countries for the express
purpose of being tortured are true, violation of the war crimes act by
the highest officials of our country would be probable. For who else but
Obama, Gates and other top officials would have the ability to
authorize such flights? How could such a program be undertaken without
their knowledge? And how could such a program be anything but the
intentional "ordering" of torture, or at least "knowing about it" and
"failing to take steps to stop it"?
Finally, Jeremy Scahill - the reporter who broke most of the stories on Blackwater - says that some forms of torture at Guantanamo have continued under Obama, and may even have gotten worse. For example, Scahill points out that:
The
Center for Constitutional Rights released a report titled "Conditions
of Confinement at Guantánamo: Still In Violation of the Law," which
found that abuses continued. In fact, one Guantanamo lawyer, Ahmed
Ghappour, said that his clients were reporting "a ramping up in abuse"
since Obama was elected.
As Marjorie Cohen - professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, past president of the National Lawyers Guild - writes at the American Constitution Society for Law and Policy:
Army
Pfc. Bradley Manning, who is facing court-martial for leaking military
reports and diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks, is being held in solitary
confinement in Quantico brig in Virginia. Each night, he is forced to
strip naked and sleep in a gown made of coarse material. He has been
made to stand naked in the morning as other inmates walked by and
looked. As journalist Lance Tapley documents in his chapter on torture
in the supermax prisons in The United States and Torture, solitary
confinement can lead to hallucinations and suicide; it is considered to
be torture. Manning's forced nudity amounts to humiliating and degrading
treatment, in violation of U.S. and international law.
Nevertheless,
President Barack Obama defended Manning's treatment, saying, "I've
actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures . . . are
appropriate. They assured me they are." Obama's deference is
reminiscent of President George W. Bush, who asked "the most senior
legal officers in the U.S. government" to review the interrogation
techniques. "They assured me they did not constitute torture," Bush
said.
***
After State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley
criticized Manning's conditions of confinement, the White House forced
him to resign. Crowley had said the restrictions were "ridiculous,
counterproductive and stupid." It appears that Washington is more
intent on sending a message to would-be whistleblowers than on
upholding the laws that prohibit torture and abuse.
***
Torture is commonplace in countries strongly allied with the United
States. Vice President Omar Suleiman, Egypt's intelligence chief, was
the lynchpin for Egyptian torture when the CIA sent prisoners to Egypt
in its extraordinary rendition program. A former CIA agent observed, "If
you want a serious interrogation, you send a prisoner to Jordan. If
you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want
someone to disappear - never to see them again - you send them to
Egypt." In her chapter in The United States and Torture, New Yorker journalist Jane Mayer cites Egypt as the most common destination for suspects rendered by the United States.
And see this, this, this and this.
Whether or not Obama is worse than Bush, he's just as bad.
While
we had Bush's "heck of a job" response to Katrina, we had Obama's
equally inept response and false assurances in connection with the Gulf
oil spill, and Obama's false assurances in connection with the Japanese nuclear crisis.
And
Bush and Obama's response to the financial crisis are virtually
identical: bail out the giant banks, let Wall Street do whatever it
wants, and forget the little guy.
The American voters asked for change. Instead, we got a different branch
of the exact same Wall Street/military-industrial complex/Big Energy
(BP, GE)/Big Pharma party.
- advertisements -
Excellent contribution GW, as all of your contributions are. Thank you so much for sharing with us your findings in your never ending pursuit for the truth.
.gov dont want us looking at organized crime like a bunch of terrorists
.
so they torture people... theres a big difference
Bo (Obama's Dog) says Obama knows War
George Washington, you are an idiot if you didn't realize that Obama was worse than Bush the minute the MSM started swooning over him after his orgasmic speech in 2004. Your problem is that you still give the benefit of the doubt to Democrats, even after Bush refused to pardon Scooter Libby.
Post Inauguration Day, 2009.
Meeting with Obama in Oval Office
Particpants: Dimon, Bernanke, Blankfein, Geithner
Dimon: Mr. President, as we have done since the early 1800s, we are here to inform you of the Rules and Regulations to be followed by all Presidents of the US as outlined originally by Mayer Rothschild in this well worn pamphlet I will ask you to read now and sign your acceptance in the place provided.
Obama: WTF?
Blankfein: Be very very careful with your choice of words, Mr. President; some of your predecessors weren't pragmatic and met untimely fates; Lincoln, Garfield, JFK. Jackson and Reagan were botched, but they got the message.
Obama: You mean.......?
Dimon: Yes, Mr. President; we own you. We will program your teleprompter. Mr Geithner, who will be your new Treasury Secretary, will be our go-between for policy we need implemented. Don't worry about Congress; we already own the important members on both sides of the aisle.
Obama: But I am the Progressive Messiah; I was patiently groomed to redistribute the wealth in America.
Blankfein: Don't worry, we will not be leaving anyone any wealth, except for our special friends; you do want to be one of our special friends, don't you Mr. President?
Obama: Will I become wealthy?
Blankfein: of course, we are all doing God's work.
Sarkozy is sure working hard for it now. he needs to drop a few more hundred thousand tons o fbombs before he can catch up.
Great article. Keep 'em coming ZH. And yes, take back OB's peace prze and call him onto the matt for his lies and other BS. GB and O'B? Different skins, same persons.
At one time in the distant past, the Nobel Peace Prize may have had some significance. But nowadays, it's just another tool in the arsenal of the elites to legitimize one of their own. Yeah, an individual like Gandhi would deserve the nobel peace prize. And many other individuals who truly seek to promote peace. But Obama? Al Gore? Yasser Arafat? Let's canonize the individuals who lead the world to world and award them the prestige of a "peace prize". We had a saying in the 1960s during 'Nam. "Fighting for Peace is like Fucking for Chastity." Those words still ring true today.
One can only wonder about the naivety on this site. Great nations are laws unto themselves and act in their interest. War is the natural state of mankind and unless you are willing to protect what is yours and expand your influence at the expense of others then you will be fodder for someone else's cannon.
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader. "The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened". - Josef Stalin
Sorry to burst your bubble, but war is not our "natural state". Pick a war, any war, and you will see that most people on both sides lived in peace during the war. Rather, war is targeted violence by a nation's elite to achieve by force what they cannot get through free trade. It is almost always a tool of elites hoping to gain significant economic advantage from either the waging of war (i.e., equipment and weapons suppliers) or from its successful conclusion (eliminating competition, aquiring valuable resources).
Did you take that directly out of "Project for a New American Century"? Is that you Bill Kristol?
GW, it gets even stranger (just when you thought it couldn't), Obama receives 'transparency in government' award with a secret White House meeting, that was closed to the press.
http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0311/not_a_secret_anymore_a00ccd98-0d9e-4822-8936-168f3a51b959.html
You just can't make this stuff up.
Great Post! +10
Opuppetama is just following orders. If people would just put down their ipads/phones or stop watching DWTS, AI, etc shows for 10 minutes a day and read, they may wake up before it's too late.
ANSE INTENDANCE INVESTORS: FREE LIBYA!
New footage has emerged from the first moments of the uprising in Libya, showing gunmen - who appear to be Gaddafi loyalists - shooting unarmed protesters dead.
FREE LIBYA!
http://www.entendance.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=796&p=16317#p16317
Our TinC's actions are in keeping with the leftist devaluing of human life. There is not a shred of remorse or concern about how many lives are lost through his actions. If it helps him and his gang accrete more power it is good. that is the only metric of concern for him.
Good stuff, Geo. Wash., thanks.
Obama is like Cleopatra : Caesar's slave. Caesar is the 'oligarchy' of happy few that paid for his election then surrounded him with a WS/GS praetorian guard. Now you know that the man who signs exec. orders does so 'cos there is a teleprompter that tells him what to do. Just like for Cleopatra...All the more so that O'b is no Elizabeth Taylor. She at least showed the world that 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' by film director or producer. She could always shake, rattle n roll with Richard and tell them to go to hell... until it froze over...Not so O'bammy. I feel sorry for him...All he can do is try for another Nobel prize by starting a local war somewhere...anywhere!
As Democratic candidate, then elect, did O'b have a real option? YES!
But...he decided he didn't want to finish like his avowed hero...Lincoln, or JFK...and I understand him, given the deep seated hatred for his kind by a less and less silent and frustrated majority; victim of the tsunami that resulted by the actions of his predecessors.
As Cleopatra, he has decided NOT to bite the bullet. He is no Augustus, not even Mark Anthony... just Cleopatra is fine for the times of decadence.
Obama's story is an interesting one.
The guy is proving himself as your typical US citizen president. He is true to the recent line of US presidents since Reagan. Not many differences between Reagan, Bush the father, Clinton, Bush the son and Obama. Simply different situations to deal with at different times, not allowing direct comparisons.
When events overlap like the War against Iraq or Afghanistan, the secret prisons etc, enough common ground to compare.
This said, in the US, there is a huge demand for alienating Obama, denying him what he is, that is your typical US citizen president. Obama is said to be a muslim, a marxist, an anti-colonialist etc People make money by supporting these failed analysis as there is a demand in the US that want to believe that Obama is not your typical US president but something else.
Just as Ben Bernanke learned his economics in Zimbabwe in the mind of US citizens, Obama, while behaving like your typical US president, still urges the need in US citizens to reject him as a non US citizen but something else.
Republican or democrat doesn't matter, they are both on the same path paved by the fed.
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws." - Mayer Amschel RothschildIraq, Afganiraq, Pakistan, and Libya,
@GW, ain't that four? Or am I some child left behind?
You're correct ... but most Americans don't know we're at war in Pakistan, so I left it out ...
So why bother writing this if you are being selective? Come on man, you think Congress gives a rats ass if we go to war or not? Not long ago the GOP was pounding the table why the President wasn't doing anything about Lybia. Now that he did something, all the rats come out of the wood works and start giving shit that he did something far worse than Bush. Please.
++ - If the GOP had won the last election, I have no doubt we'd be bombing Iran by now.
He won the election because people were fed up with all the bullshit and corruption in the previous administration. He was gifted the peace prize because of the great hope his campaign inspired. After the election he doubled down on bullshit and corruption, just like Bush he had the world in his corner and he took them all to the cleaners.
In my book he is more of a whore than Bush.
With Bush you knew what you were getting. Obama is a "snake in the grass" and in my book he is indeed more of a whore than Bush.
And the next Resident will be even worse, assuming that the QSA makes it past 2013. The financial/military/industrial complex demands profits, and these days, that means that a whole lot of people are going to get less than nothing so TPTB can have a bit more.
Many of the world's raw materials are running low, and all the easy to mine/harvest/pump resources have been claimed or exhausted. Fractional reserve banking means that the debt owed must increase over time, and a shrinking economy is not going to deal with increasing debt without more bag ladies, more war, more jobs lost, etc.
The economies of the world are dying. Don't depend on them for your *needs* or you run the risk of being a slave.
well said
The President gave an 'energy' speech today in front of that stupid 'win the future' backdrop and actually veered offscript. He referred to his energy secretary as the Nobel Laureate who 'deserved his award'.
I don't think it is arguable at all bush was worse. Obama is a different kind of bad, and that is a perjorative.
that's the worse part they DO believe his lies and still worship him
I know of no person, Dem, Independents or true liberals (who absolutely dispise Obama) that voted for Obama, that would vote for him today.
Many are silent but very angry..... knowing you've been had by a shill is embarrassing at best.
People need to understand that our media is owned by a tribe. If you serve the tribe they will pile on the glitz and razzeldazzle and make you into a messianic figure. If people aren't hip to this charade than they'll likely be paralyzed by the red team/blue team game. Thus we have mindless drones who will support Obama even if he eats babies because they think he is on their blue team. I assume most of you recognize this imbalance, but for those unfamiliar, here is the roster.
Levin = HBO, TNT, TBS, CNN, TCM, Warner Bro's, Time Inc.
Eisner = ABC, ESPN, A&E, Lifetime, Miramax Films, Caravan Pictures, Touchstone Pictures
Redstone = CBS, Paramount, MTV, Nickelodeon, Showtime, Country Music Television, Nashville Network Cable, Infinity Broadcasting (radio), Pocket Books, Free Press, Schribner, Simon & Schuster, BET (lol)
Bronfman = Universal Studios, USA Networks, Houghton Mifflin Publishers
Murdoch = WSJ, among others..
according to CNN thereare only a few hundred "opposition" fighhters (note- no longer "rebels") at this rate they'll be rolled back to Bengazi in a couple days, the CIA WILL HAVE no puppets to sustain
youtube 'hyperreport' claims that libyan rebels have set up a new central bank and oil co.
iraq - check
afghanistan - check
...
libya - check
iran - middle east checkmate if and when.
the money cartel believes they own the blood in your veins.
the banking system is the singular entity of enmity.
Obunghole is just following orders.
met the new boss, same as the old boss
This land is their land this land is their land....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Q-sRdV7SY&feature=related
Does anyone still believe anything this charlatan says?
How can you tell if Obama is lying? Look to see if his lips are moving.
Probably a third of the population... fortunately most are too lazy to vote most of the time. Assuming that voting actually determines elections anyway.
80% of Dems approve of what he is doing as President.
When you make a statement like that could you please cite your source? Was this a poll taken by the commission to re-elect Obama?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/03/30/2011-03-30_president_obamas_approval_ratings_hit_alltime_low_half_dont_think_he_deserves_se.html?r=news
Based on latest Qunnipiac poll.
HEY SHEEP!
You love your dear leader? You lay down in green pastures with French pharmaceuticals that need cheap Libyan sweet crude? You, so easily tooled by the central bankers to create cascading credit based transactions to service by more and more of your pathetic slave children!
There is no scorn bitter enough for the piece of shit statists that turn a blind eye to this. You know who I'm talking about you piece of shit congress.
Flush this piece of shit country one more time, there's still a few wet turds lingering.
The government is issuing a report on it...
Apparantly the torture and rendition are the fault of deadbeat borrowers!
ARGH
My eyes are bleeding!!!
Must..blame..Bush.. fox ..news!!!
Oh wait. I just watched Stewart/ Colbert tell me funny jokes about fox News.
all is wel......
video
Obama circa 2002- Toppling Brutal Dictator is a Dumb War