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Nuclear Expert: "Fukushima Has 24 Hours To Avoid A Core Meltdown Scenario"
In an interview with Mark Hibbs, a Berlin-based senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a nonprofit think tank, Newsmax magazine asks - what happens next at the Fukushima Nuclear Power Plant. The answer according to the nuclear expert, is that as Fukushima is now well on its way to a full core-melt nuclear accident, a worst case scenario could possibly lead to the same results last seen in 1986 Chernobyl.
Below we present a brief overview of the Fukushima plant from Wikipedia:
The Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant (Fukushima I NPP, 1F), often referred to as Fukushima Dai-ichi, is a nuclear power plant located in the town of Okuma in the Futaba District of Fukushima Prefecture. With six separate units located on site with a combined power of 4.7 GW, Fukushima I is one of the 25 largest nuclear power stations in the world. Fukushima I is the first nuclear plant to be constructed and run entirely by The Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO).
Fukushima II Nuclear Power Plant, 11.5 kilometres (7.1 mi) to the south, is also run by TEPCO.
Unit Type First Criticality Electric Power Fukushima I - 1 BWR March 26, 1971 460 MW Fukushima I - 2 BWR July 18, 1974 784 MW Fukushima I - 3 BWR March 27, 1976 784 MW Fukushima I - 4 BWR October 12, 1978 784 MW Fukushima I - 5 BWR April 18, 1978 784 MW Fukushima I - 6 BWR October 24, 1979 1,100 MW Fukushima I - 7 (planned) ABWR October, 2013 1,380 MW Fukushima I - 8 (planned) ABWR October, 2014 1,380 MW
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Its too bad they never really go together that much. They are both old now but the voices still are there. Charlie Sheen could learn a thing or two from the possum......I am very surprised he lived to talk about it..........
unfortunately "what it takes" cannot be learned or taught [trust me]. most folks, high or low, die before they get the "aha". odds are: slim & none
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drmBXSM-HM&feature=related
another nice one. modern country music has gone to hell imho. it just stinks....the young girls are pretty and all have nice voices. but they all sound the same. and there is no individualism. everything is homogenized cookie cutter country now.
Ok you made your point. I hunt tully elk. I like a self loaded 7mag. 30odd6 is good but the speed of a seven mag is awesome. Teflon jackets. 223 swift is fun also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd8SNcZIgpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ84EinHL08&feature=relmfu
Who'll Stop The Rain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIPan-rEQJA&feature=related
A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3995250297882568860#
Diamonds and Rust
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpD5_c2j1OM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9pc4U40sI
Donovan, Universal Soldier.
here is one from the early 60's. we all listened intently but we never did anything and so now we pay for it.......nothing has changed.
Totally inaccurate conclusion.
The Russion reactor was moderated by graphite, had no containment building, and was set on fire during the course of the accident. It burned for weeks afterwards.
The Japanese reactor is liquid cooled and moderated. It may melt to slag if the emergency cooling malfunctions, but it wont burn like the Russion reactor.
Look at the SAT photo. Feed uptake is on the bay opening! It's French anyways.
I'm an electrical engineer not a nuclear engineer but seeing that compensation is crap for engineers in the US I would guess the same is true in Japan and that they have a real problem like we do attracting competent engineering talent to solve problems.
Good comment!
Engineers are unemployed now, you have to be sales rep or bullshit teller to make any money.
It ain't over til the fat lady sings. Our government should be issuing warnings right now. Instead they are worried about who built those pieces of SHIT! If that complex goes! A cloud of matter will hurt the Pacific North West. I tap your you-tubes H.P.D.
Fukushima might be worse than Chernobyl. We have a few hours to prevent the meltdown. The rest of the world can hope for the best.
Why would it be worse? Cherbobyl was a fire (the core burned) with radioactive particulate from a graphite core - not a BWR LOCA. Kind of like a dirty bomb concept. This is totally different type of reactor and I beleive it will be a different type of disaster if it happens.
Typically BWR reactors have a "kill switch" built in - not certain these do (These are MOX design?). The kill switch (IF it is included in this design) is a last resort as it destroys (poisons) the reactor internals. Older GE Mark BWRs have a BORON injection system that is pressurized and the pipes going into the reactor have exploding valves. (Literally a small charge i n the guts of the valve that get blown out). Needless to say you only open these valves once. My understanding is after that you can just about fill the building with concrete since the boron will be in the Main Steam, RHR, etc...
I could be wrong totally about this particular design, but I will check. I just can't beleive they would have a true core "melt" like a TMI, due to a runaway reaction or LOCA (Loss of Coolant Accident)
Thanks please reply. Boron is just a heat agent for sodium build up on intake. This seems to be a break down of systems and a really serious problem. The containment vessels are linked. No outer shielding, or cooling!
I'm assuming these are now light water reactors? low enrichment levels. Plutonium by product.
My understanding as well.
Nothing like a graphite reactor (without any containment) -- that everyone keep comparing this to. TMI would be closer example -- partial core melt.
This is also a BWR so they can circulate though the Turbine condenser, right? I'm pretty certain they have an Aux power source to circ the feedwater pumps, don't you think?
Or the RHR system, if present?
Hense the boron (borite ) sodium reduction on valves. Looks like those turbines and valves are screwed pretty tight. TMI had containment and still failed. No follow thru though. Partial burns x4 could be really nasty! I'm guessing the backup feed is packed with junk from the waves. I like nuke ,but I like it built right!
Hi, I only worked on BWR and PWR and a bit on AP600/1000 Westinghouse designs. So I am not familiar with the MOX (plutonium oxide core?) of these BWRs. I don't know what the internals look like or anyling about the fuel bundles. In a Mark 6 GE BWR there is a scram for safe shutdown -- this is a BORON injection. In a previous life I have edited the drawings myself.
I found this PFD which shows the simple design - see PAGE 3-9 (bottom). Again this is a one time kill switch and I always understood that the reactor and the associated systems turned to crap. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrc.gov%2Freading-rm%2Fbasic-ref%2Fteachers%2F03.pdf
I have only been involved in NSSS design and refuels and I am not involved in any operations (other than startup support).
Boron is directed into coolant, not the vessel core. Boron reduces oxidation in high heat, relative to the sodium coolant around the reactor core. Physics are not on my pallete tonight. I hope it is contained sooner than later. I'm long usd/jpy and that 83.3 trend line held. I wish it was under better circumstances.
I would guess they have already had blow down and relief valves have gone off. If this is a passive design the containment would be flooded at this point? Sooner or later they will have to release pressure (air water) to atmosphere?
After the BP blowout, some people were recommending that the well be nuked. Why can't they nuke a nuke plant too?
The comments are a hoot.
Enjoy !
Some guy posted this on the Reuters live feed:
No idea how legitimate this info is. But if it is legitimate, can anyone here with expertise in radiation levels comment on how serious this is?
I wouldn't worry too much. You can't do anything about it anyway.
Wikipedia has an article on the Sievert:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert
To summarize, natural background radiation levels vary widely, but the average is around 2.4mSv/year. So at 5.1uSv/hour, it would take around 470 hours to pick up a yearly dose of background radiation.
It also says that when the radiation dose is received in one hour, 1 Sv typically causes nausea, 2-5 Sv can cause hair loss, hemorrhage, and possible death, and that with a 6 Sv dose survival is unlikely. At 5.1uSv/hour, it would take around 200,000 hours (22.3 years) to pick up a 1 Sv dose.
So while I wouldn't recommend hanging around there, even if you spent 5 hours there it would only amount to 1% of your yearly radiation exposure due to background radiation.
An expert on CNN said the present 1000 fold increase over normal background radiation poses no danger.
If normal background is 2.4mSv/year, that would be 0.27uSv/hour. So 5.1uSv/hour would be about 19 times the typical background rate.
However background radiation levels vary widely. There is a place in Iran where background levels of 260mSv/year have been reported. There are other hot spots in Brazil, India, Australia, and China.
Thanks for the half/life charts Ben.
Reactor 'hours' from meltdown?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-us-analysis-idUSTRE72B04C20110312
Reuters - TEPCO is having difficulties trying to open valve to release pressure at Daiichi reactor: Kyodo
Latest from Yomiuri Shinbun: Fukushima I and II Nuclear Plants were designed to withstand M.7.9 earthquakes. All emergency power generators stopped working within 1 hour of the earthquake.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/japan-earthquake-nuclear-plants.html
At 2:48PM on March 11th, the reactor of Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station Unit 1 (Boiling Water Reactor, rated output 1,100 Megawatts) shut down due to the impact of the earthquake. Make-up Water Condensate System was used to inject water into the reactor to cool it. Subsequently, at 6:07AM, the temperature of the suppression chamber exceeded 100 degrees. As the reactor pressure suppression function was lost, at 6:07AM, it was determined that a specific incident stipulated in article 15, clause 1 has occurred. Safety and Impact to the Environment - Currently, water level to cool irradiated fuels in the reactor is maintained. - Indication of monitoring posts installed in the site boundary is not different from normal. Currently, no radiation impact to the external environment has been confirmed. We will continue monitoring in detail discharge of radioactive material from exhaust stack and discharge canal.
CitizenPete - Just wondering if the "kill switch" (or whatever is the last emergency measure) is a last resort that operators might be reluctant to take because it shuts down the plant in such a severe manner that the plant would take years to bring on line or perhaps even not ever operated again? Not that the operators would not take the last resort, but that they want to try everything short of a last resort. Do you have any insight on use of the last resort?
Please see my previous post. Thanks
This thing melts down, they'll rename it Fukusallshima.
Like I said earlier -- they will have to start releasing to the atmosphere; Water and air release... (reason for regional evac) Somebody tell the birds and fishes please. Battle to stabilise earthquake reactors 12 March 2011UPDATE 2: 1.52 am GMT
Attention is focused on the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini nuclear power plants as Japan struggles to cope in the aftermath of its worst earthquake in recorded history.
Three of Fukushima Daiichi's six reactors were in operation when yesterday's quake hit, at which point they shut down automatically and commenced removal of residual heat with the help of emergency diesel generators. However, these suddenly stopped about an hour later for reasons as yet unknown.
This led the plant owners Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) to notify the government of a technical emergency situation, which allows officials to take additional precautionary measures.
Even now, the primary focus of work at the site remains to connect enough portable power modules to fully replace the diesels and enable the full operation of cooling systems.
Pressure and releases
Without enough power for cooling systems, decay heat from the reactor cores of units 1, 2 and 3 has gradually reduced coolant water levels through evaporation. The consequent increase in pressure in the coolant circuit can be managed via pressure release valves. However, this leads to an increase in pressure within the reactor building containment. Tepco has said that the pressure within the containment of Fukushima Daiichi 1 has reached around 840 kPa, compared to reference levels of 400 kPa.
The company has decided to manage this "for those units that cannot confirm certain levels of water injection" by means of a controlled release of air and water vapour to the atmosphere. Because this water has been through the reactor core, this would inevitably mean a certain release of radiation. The International Atomic Energy Agency said this would be filtered to retain radiation within the containment.
However, the company's monitoring of Fukushima Daiichi 1 has separately shown an increase in radiation levels detected emerging from the plant via routes such as the exhaust stack and the discharge canal.
Over the last several hours evacuation orders for local residents have been incrementally increased and now cover people living within ten kilometres of the power plant.
Raised temperatures
Meanwhile at adjacent Fukushima Daini, where four reactors have been shut down safely since the earthquake hit, Tepco has notified government of another emergency status.
Unit 1's reactor core isolation cooling system had been operating normally, and this was later supplemented by a separate make-up water condensate system. However, the latter was lost at 5.32am local time when its suppression chamber reached 100ºC. This led Tepco to notify government of another technical emergency situation.
Tepco has announced it will soon begin controlled releases to ease pressure in the containments of units 1, 2 3 and 4 at Fukushima Daini.
A three kilometre evacuation is in progress, with residents in a zone out to ten kilometres given notice of potential expansion.
Researched and written by World Nuclear News
What will be interesting is the post-emergency investigation that would determine whether these "technical emergency situations" were due to 1) earthquake and tsunami damage of facilities, and/or 2) inadequate emergency equipment maintenance, operator error, design flaws, etc.
Technical emergency situation 1 - "Three of Fukushima Daiichi's six reactors were in operation when yesterday's quake hit, at which point they shut down automatically and commenced removal of residual heat with the help of emergency diesel generators. However, these suddenly stopped about an hour later for reasons as yet unknown."
Technical emergency situation 2 -"Unit 1's reactor core isolation cooling system had been operating normally, and this was later supplemented by a separate make-up water condensate system. However, the latter was lost at 5.32am local time when its suppression chamber reached 100ºC. This led Tepco to notify government of another technical emergency situation."
This news can't be good for Entergy's and Exelon's pending applications before the NERC.
nor NRG South Texas Project 3 and 4
Well at least we are not glued to remote cameras installed at exhaust pipes trying to armchair analyze what they are doing to the flow of gases.
God bless the hundreds of workers who will have to go in and cement this puppy over.
Thorium is looking better and better. It's much more stable in a worst case scenario like this. Maybe Japan will follow India to thorium.
I prefer lithium. Has fewer side effects for me.
Oh, THORIUM, not thorazine.
NVM
Nice Smithsonian Institute summary of the Three Mile Island incident, pointing out that it was in fact much worse than anyone knew at the time, with a partial meltdown, containment vessel failure, molten fuel puddled on the floor of the containment building, and only a few hours and some blind luck from a total disaster.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/tmi/tmi03.htm
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise: when the first robots went in and took pictures, much later, it was a complete shock how bad it was and how close it had been. The official story was that they never approached the melting temperature of the fuel....and yes, Virginia, this is a PWR, not a 'dirty bomb' Chernobyl design. So this is what Japan is facing now, only in multiple units.
The TMI scenario is not a feel-good story.
... and only a few hours and some blind luck from a total disaster.
I disagree with your characterization of the article. There is nothing which suggests that a breach of the containment structure was ever a possibility. Those structures were extremely strong and were designed to withstand the impact of a passenger jet.
People can read the article for themselves and come to their own conclusions. When I read it, I see a lot of scary language and hype which was probably written by an opponent of nuclear energy. But I don't see anything which suggests that a disaster was imminent.
Your disagreement with my characterization is duly noted. But there was a much later investigation conducted by the OECD and NRC specifically because the damage to the core was so much worse than anyone thought, and the damage to containment should have been much worse, according to the kinds of 'real honest to gosh engineers' that nuclear romantics take seriously. They honestly did not think it could handle that thermal stress.
I just wish people could handle reality a bit more in between meaningless politicized extremes.
Since I didn't agree with your interpretation of the first article, there is no reason to think that I would agree with your characterization of the OECD/NRC report that you mention. Could you post a link to the report and specifically note the sections where the 'real honest to gosh engineers' claim that the containment could not handle the stress?
Otherwise, we just have your word for what the report said.
Funny, none of the 'real engineers' here ever posts any actual information. Although the like acronyms. Cuz it looks so....credible. I have put a lot of excellent information on this site for years now, so--the burden is on you.
And yet I feel fine about it, all in.
Looks like Libya has been knocked off the front page for the forseeable future. So the president for life , needs to make his move and getter done.......
Humor:
Never fear, Johnny Sokko is here.
Fact:
Data from station QSPA (South Pole, Antarctica)
Data from station WAKE (Wake Island, Pacific Ocean)
Humor:
650 Days 1 Hour 46 Minutes 25 Seconds Until the Pole Shift...Boo! This is what the doomers are predicting regarding timeframe.
In fact, the poles are shifting and Earthquakes do occur. Some of our finest multinational thieves are so pissed that the earthquakes don't generate CO2.
Anyhow, keep a watchful eye on activity within the polar regions. Now might be a time for the greenies to set up a new foundation.
Adopt a fuzzy bear from polar shift extinction. Just phone your regional NGO branch for special details.
Regarding all the static on levels of radiation, let the dust settle. They have no fucking clue how many human beings are dead. What makes you think they can this bit of info correct?
The headline, and the preceding article on ZH may convey the notion that this is like the Deepwater Horizon accident. I.e. the longer it gets the worse it is.
Actually, it is exactly the contrary : As all the reactors have been properly shut down - through the control bar and probably the release of all borated water (bore is a nuclear reaction poison) -, there is only decay heat left, which is a small and most importantly exponentially decreasing portion of the reactor nominal power. After one hour (when the coolant pump went AWOL), decay heat is 7% of the nominal power, after 3 hours, close to 1%, after 24 hours, close to 0.5%.
As some point, natural circulation of water (I.e. without a pump. but only through temperature-induced coolant density change) will be sufficient to dissipate the heat, although I assume they will bring new diesel generator before that. Again, the longer it goes, the less powerful the pump, and therefore the generator, will need to be.
That is not to say that this is not a serious accident, and it will certainly be reflected in the accident classification by the IEA, but, from what we know, we are a far cry from Chernobyl or even TMI.
It seems that generators have been trucked in to power the cooling pumps, and according to the latest IAEA bulletin, the water is still above the fuel rods, and they are venting from the inner to the outer containment to lower the pressure....although they also pointed out that gas releases would be filtered to limit radioactive material contamination of the environment, which should not happen in a cross-containment pressure release....unless the pressure in the outer containment starts to exceed design pressure and releases to the environment are required. Some reports are suggesting that containment design pressures have been exceeded by 2.1 times max, other reports say 2.1 times normal operating pressure, but none of these reports say whether this is in the inner or outer containment. The gas, if it has to be vented to atmosphere, is typically vented through HEPA filters and dense-packed charcoal to catch particulate matter. Radioactive gas or steam vented into the atmosphere will dissipate reasonably quickly, and it seems the prevailing winds are blowing off-shore, although are circling back over southern Japan and toward the Korean Peninsula. If they control the heat and stabilize the core, it is likely that the fuel rods (I believe being MOX) will probably have suffered cladding damage, so will have to be replaced. Many people in Japan are opposed to the use of MOX (partial plutonium) in Japanese reactors, so it would be likely that a long series of hearings, safety reviews and re-permitting will be required. In the event the heat cannot be controlled, then it will probably be necessary to poison the reactor with the stand-by boron water system, which in many reactors is powered by high-pressure Nitrogen accumulators, and does not require pumps....only the activation of an explosive valve that releases the kill liquid. This would not necessarily prevent a containment breach from latent heat pressure, but should stop the resulting mass reaction if the fuel rods melt and pool in the inner containment. But, they will perform controlled vents to atmosphere before they will risk a containment failure.
Dbl
Impact to TEPCO's Facilities due to Miyagiken-Oki Earthquake (as of 10AM)
[Nuclear Power Station] Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station: Units 1 to 3: shutdown due to earthquake Units 4 to 6: outage due to regular inspection * The national government has instructed evacuation for those local residents within 10km radius of the periphery. * Measurement of radioactive material (Iodine, etc.) by monitoring car indicates increasing value compared to normal level. One of the monitoring posts is also indicating higher than normal level. We will continue monitoring discharge of radioactive material from exhaust stack and discharge canal, etc. * Considering the increasing pressure with in the reactor containment vessel of Unit 1, the national government has instructed us to implement measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. Fukushima Daini Nuclear Power Station: Units 1 to 4: shutdown due to earthquake * The national government has instructed evacuation for those local residents within 3km radius of the periphery and indoor standby for those local residents between 3km and 10km radius of the periphery. * At present, we have decided to prepare implementing measures to reduce the pressure of the reactor containment vessel (partial discharge of air containing radioactive materials) in order to fully secure safety. These measures are considered to be implemented in Units 1 to 4 and accordingly, we have reported and/or noticed the government agencies concerned. Kashiwazaki Kariwa Nuclear Power Station: Units 1, 5, 6, 7: normal operation Units 2 to 4: outage due to regular inspection [Thermal Power Station] Hirono Thermal Power Station Units 2 and 4: shutdown due to earthquake Hitachinaka Thermal Power Station Unit 1: shutdown due to earthquake Kashima Thermal Power Station Units 2, 3, 5, 6: shutdown due to earthquake Ohi Thermal Power Station Units 2, 3: shutdown due to earthquake Higashi-Ohgishima Thermal Power Station Unit 1: shutdown due to earthquake [Hydro Power Station] 5 stations in Fukushima Prefecture were shutdown due to earthquake. Power stations in Yamanashi Prefecture have been restored. [Transmission System, etc.] 5 substations shown below have been shutdown: - Naka Substation - Shin Motegi Substation - Joban Substation - Ibaraki Substation - Nishi Mito Substation [Blackout in TEPCO's Service Area] Total of about 1 million households are out of power. Tokyo: 0 Kanagawa Pref.: 5,533 Tochigi Pref.: 214,817 Chiba Pref.: 134,611 Saitama Pref: 0 Gunma Pref.: 0 Ibaraki Pref: 642,657 Yamanashi Pref: 0 Shizuoka Pref: 0 (east of Fuji River) [Supply and Demand Status within TEPCO's Service Area to Secure Stable Power Supply] Backup supply from Shinshinano Conversion Station: 600MW Backup supply from Sakuma Conversion Station: 300MW Backup supply from Higashi Shimizu Conversion Station: 100MW
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-12/tokyo-electric-starts-venting-r...
Radioactive Gas Released From Nuclear Plant Damaged by Japan’s EarthQuake
I am watching NHK....first they said that 90 cm of the top of the core was above water...and that the cooling water is leaking.And they just detected cesium in the air...and suspect fuel rods may have melted.
Cesium detection is a BAD sign, and core exposure=FAIL.
They are adding cooling water like mad, but it looks grim.
They are now broadcasting tsunami warnings complete with a map of Japan with the warning areas flashing colors corresponding to the predicted wave height.
What a horrible mess for the poor Japanese.
If the fuel rods become uncovered, then it is close to game over. The boron poison system must be damaged, since if this is correct, it should have been deployed to prevent a core melt reaction. Earlier they could not circulate cooling water....maybe now they have the emergency generators up and are pumping, but the flow torus may be damaged. If....and I repeat IF this info is true....uncovered rods, cooling flow not coping with heat and rod submersion, and boron system not deployed, things could get bad.
Add iodine to the list, cesium and iodine both detected....it looks bad for that reactor.
Cesium is the main thing....it is mainly a product of a fuel rod, and due to its high melting point, does not normally exist in signifigant amounts outside the cladding. If it is being emitted, then the rods are certainly damaged. If they are not dumping boron into that thing now...then it is because they cannot. No, if this is correct, and it seems to be, then things are not good.
It really sucks, at a minimum the reactor is junk now.I hope they don't get a major release...but since the reactor endured such a huge seismic hit, there is no way to tell how badly compromised containment is.They have sent their radiological response team to a headquarters 5km away from the reactor....not a good sign.
The whole situation in Japan is horrible....what a mess.
My hope is that they can still prevent a core melt. Yes, the reactor core is probably damaged, and if it survives, to get back on-line will probably require a lot of work....maybe impossible - this thing is, after all, 40 years old. The real problem long-term is the impact on Japanese society, although most of which were not alive for Hiroshima/Nagasaki, have it in them as a part of their historical culture.
On a more general note, you are right. I lived in Japan for a few years, and have travelled there often. I like the Japanese and their culture. Now, they have had a massive earthquake, a massive tsunami, fires, avalanches and a possible nuclear plant meltdown. All in a few days. I have been going on about nuke technology, and am just now starting to realize the real impact of this horrible distaster.
The nuke failure is a minor sideshow...the fires are incredible.They are losing cities.NHK showed a place where a town was erased by tsunami.It is really horrible...and continuous tsunami warnings as I type this.
I hope they can get the power plants back online....5 million are without power and it will take a long time to restore....giant sections of the grid were destroyed.
In the aftermath I am sure studies will be done on reactor safety there.I hope it does not hurt the use of nuclear power there.They sure do need it.
NHK says there were 13 diesel sets to power emergency cooling....and all failed from earthquake damage.That indicates very severe infrastructure damage.
I hope Japan recovers quickly...it is heartbreaking.And now NHK is giving fallout survival info....wash clothes after being outside, keep a wet cloth over your face, etc.
Poor Japan.
Yeah, this sucks beyond belief. I focus on nuc stuff because I know something about it, but it is only one problem they have. It is the compounding of disasters that is heartbreaking. I was told by someone on the ground that gen sets had been trucked in and were being connected to provide power to coolant pumps. Not sure if that did not work, or if the coolant torus got damaged. But, you also have rice field flooded with saltwater, semiconductor plants off-line due to vibration and power outages, coastal seafood operations destroyed....Bonds will have to be issued for rebuilding, their oil imports will go up....Japan imports a lot of commodities. This has the makings of a real economic disaster as well as an infrastructure and social one.
Yes. The coolant level continues to fall,BTW.1.7 meters of core exposed.
And NHK says 14 gensets failed, up one from the 13 reported earlier.The presenter looks overwhelmed on NHK world.
Japan is in my prayers tonite.
1.7 meters of fuel rod exposure sounds bad, but it depends on the heat flux still in the core. Some cooling is transmitted up the rods from the coolant below, but if no coolant flow is going on, then a type of blackbody thermal equilibrium (temporary) eventually comes into play, where the coolant existing in the core reaches rod temperature, then the uncovered section of the rods try to transmit heat from the soak below into hot ambient air, and unable to do this, swell and rupture the cladding. Without a kill mechanism that absorbs neutron flux, things can get hairy here.
It sure sounds hairy to me.And they can't get to the pressure release valves...one of them is too hot with radiation.It sounds like a total clusterfuck...
That fox nit wit was wrong. Control rods are dropped into a sodium bath. The heat (neutron) interaction in the bath is transferred through coils into a heat transfer circuit. There are not rods alligned to directly absorb heat in the reactor vessel. Unless it's a heavy water facility! Period!
The control rods are inserted into guide tubes inside a fuel rod element, and absorb neutrons to moderate the reaction.
The rods are inserted to control/modulate heat in the bath. Yes pellets are inserted into titanium rods. The control rods modulate reactor heat. The coils around the reactor transfer heat.
Controlling neutron flux moderates the heat. Heat is a secondary reaction. The control rods are inserted into guide tubes in each fuel rod module, in an emergency they can be scrammed (dropped) into the modules. I used to design them.
For the gallery. Neutron flux is the deflection of highly excited (high density atoms) The control rods are fixed on a seperate pallate to control scram(shutdown) down. These rods are filled with neutron absorbers for service and shutdowns.The reactor heat is as I said secondary. Via coils around the reactor core. Thanks for re-affirming my previous post Aristarchan.
market pulse
March 12, 2011, 12:20 a.m. EST
Japan warns of meltdown at quake-hit plant: KyodoJapanese authorities said there was a high chance of a nuclear meltdown at a plant in Fukushima operated by Tokyo Electric Power Corp. also known as Tepco, according to Kyodo News.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-warns-of-meltdown-at-quake-hit-pl...
Sounds pretty FUBAR to me:
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/76948.html
I have never seen news show up in this size on the Nikkei.(the news, not the index)
http://www.nikkei.com/
Thanks.
Here is the English translation Nikkei version, and yes, it is remarkably bold-faced font for the usually reserved Nikkei News Service:
Nuclear Authorities: Nuclear Reactor May Be Experiencing A MeltdownTOKYO (Dow Jones)--Japanese nuclear authorities said Saturday afternoon the Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 nuclear reactor 240 kilometers north of Tokyo may be experiencing a meltdown after Friday's massive earthquake damaged the cooling system.
No worries.....The Bernanke is dropping fresh billions of pounds of printed cash on the reactors right now. The money should keep the fallout from reaching the atmosphere.
Remember, engineers who work with nuclear power say it is safe.
Maybe they will even say it again.
This is all impossible.
Al Jazeera just quoted Japanese nuclear authorities stating a meltdown is now probable.
They're headlines are learning from the west. This is deeper in the article:
'No Chernobyl possible'
However, Naoto Sekimura, a professor at the University of Tokyo, said a major radioactive disaster was unlikely.
"No Chernobyl is possible at a light water reactor. Loss of coolant means a temperature rise, but it also will stop the
reaction," he said.
"Even in the worst-case scenario, that would mean some radioactive leakage and equipment damage, but not an explosion. If venting is done carefully, there will be little leakage. Certainly not beyond the 3 km radius."
Japan's Prime Minister Naoto Kan said securing the nuclear plants were Japan's top priority. Early on Saturday morning, he left on a helicopter ride to Fukushima to assess the situation at the plants operated by Tokyo Electric Power, and in other areas in the disaster zone.
See extensive earlier discussions of Chernobyl vs. Three Mile Island scenarios. TMI is not a feel-good scenario, especially with buildings full of water and structural damage. Basically they don't know what's coming.
The quote you mention was in earlier articles, before this new statement from the government--that statement is the only new information causing the giant headlines.
The expert ruling out explosions may not have thought about ruptured gas lines, fuel tanks, downed wires, etc. etc. etc.
Why not some more appeal to good luck and/or prayer, and less misplaced confidence in the robustness of massively complex systems under unprecedented stress? Remind anyone of the financial engineering profession?
Humility, sheesh. It's in the hands of the Seven Lucky Gods of Japan. The goddamn systems have failed already.
Update on the Japanese Nikkei at 15:02 Japan.
Self Defence Force has been requested to supply water for cooling the reactor.
This looks terribly desparate....
http://www.nikkei.com/
There was a partial meltdown in the US Three Mile Island accident, but it only lead to a minor release of radiation and no one was killed or injured.
However a meltdown would probably mean an expensive cleanup and the reactor would probably be damaged beyond repair. At the very least, it would be a long time before it would be back online.
If there is no meltdown, the reactors could be restarted after repairs and a thorough damage inspection.
is this just a prelude to what could happen in 2012?
OT: Yahoo headline:
Stocks inch higher day after Japan earthquakehttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-inch-higher-day-after-apf-257219421...
Very surreal....Bad news is good news for the stock market....
Not surreal at all. Dollar down, Dow up. BTFD (dip, not dollar). As someone said earlier, HFT bots don't give a flying fuck about radiation, earthquakes, rape, tax cuts, unions, or Charlie Sheen. B.T.F.D. is all they know.
SENDAI, Japan -- A nuclear power plant affected by a massive earthquake is facing a possible meltdown, an official with Japan's nuclear safety commission said Saturday.
Ryohei Shiomi said that officials were checking whether a meltdown [core melt] had taken place at the Fukushima Daiichi power plant's Unit 1, which had lost cooling ability ...
Japan's nuclear safety agency said the situation was most dire at Fukushima Daiichi's Unit 1, where pressure had risen to twice what is consider the normal level. The International Atomic Energy Agency said in a statement that diesel generators that normally would have kept cooling systems running at Fukushima Daiichi had been disabled by tsunami flooding.
Hmmm... water line got below the top of the fuel bundles? Emergency DG set got flooded so no power -- no aux power? -- because they shut down and other plants probably shutdown or tripped? -- so recirc pumps (and any LPCI/HPCI) had no power? Are these units passive ABWR or BWR - in other woeds is the suppression pool above (gravity fed) or below the reactor (blow down)? Either way the steam release in the containment has caused the pressure to be high enough that they are releasing. Hopefully HEPAs and Radwaste systems are now functioning.
Not good. Fukushima lessons learned: 1) locate generator set and deisel above flood level. (if thats what happened) 2)...
Plant is early 1970s vintage, I think 1971. Draw your own conclusions.
It is my understanding that the emergency passive cooling pool is below the core, but was designed to operate on convection flow. It was also deemed highly unlikely that both on-site and off-site power sources would go down simultaneously. It seems like there is a lot more infrastructural damage at this plant than earlier reported or realized.
"...more than earlier realized" yup; that's true more often than not with any kind of "disaster" unfortunately
You are correct. core cooling is from the bottom. Core size and shape can effect cooling (points) Generally a core service point is from the top. Liquid coolant under presure makes servicing easier, when the cavity is evacuated. Think of being in space. The contaminates surface after the pressure is relieved.
I would discuss how to build a nuke with you, but I love my country and family.
URGENT: Concerns of core partially melting at Fukushima nuke plant
TOKYO, March 12, Kyodo
The core at Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant's No. 1 reactor may be partially melting, the nuclear safety agency said Saturday.
Radioactive substance cesium was detected around the reactor, it said.
==Kyodo
Al Jazeera just reported that Japan's energy dept said meltdown is 'probable'
Casualties being reported @ Fukushima No. 1
TimeOutTokyo: Reports confirm that 2 people have died at Fukushima nuclear reactor 1, and 1 person at nuclear reactor 2
More legitimate source? I have not seen this anywhere and don't trust random Twitter feeds.
I can't vouch for the twitter feed, but that Nikkei News headline about a meltdown in the making should scare anyone.
What killed them? Radiation levels only 1000 times higher than background are not going to kill anyone.
However, from the photo, it appears that the reactor is right next to the ocean. If so, perhaps the tsunami killed them.
Fukushima is on the order of 8x (I think) larger than Chernobyl.
If all this is true, then it will have a terrible impact on the Japanese psyche.....Hiroshima. Nagasaki.
Reuters - Japan nuclear authorities: successfully released pressure at Fukushima plant by opening valves
nope. not by my sources.
http://english.kyodonews.jp/
oh fuck! I knew it. Got to move the family south. Meltdown!
the first reactor blew!
source?
patience my ass. the diving team cleared #2 inlet?
Quit junking up the site posting stupid shit that isn't legitimate and has no source.
How are your sources now ? Junk meister!
Damn you people are depressing.
This shit isn't worth it.
baby_BLYTHE Please go back to the other place from whence you came!
oh junk me. real mature fag
I like bacon, and therefore I like you.I'm wanting some breakfast at the wrong time!
Still total silence on the 'other other plant' Onagawa, which put out a fire but quietly reported another unit was experiencing a water leak. That was like twelve hours ago. Onagawa is in the real disaster zone.
It's confusing because Fukushima Daiichi is in the town of Onahama.
Warren Buffett's Swiss Re is gonna get some big insurance claims there.
This thing is no where close to being fixed. Too much Tv.
I call BS. The MSM wants me glued to CNN 24 hrs a day waiting for a meltdown that won't happen.
NHK:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_45.html
Almost all of these articles I have been reading say "Oh it's just a little radiation..." and now it's "Oh, it's just a little cesium/iodine/uranium." What's next?
Lots of conflicting information on this, but it sure doesn't sound like it's getting any better.
Gotta love the subversive (low enriched uranium) approach.
Send me a steam cloud from that site! All the good water vapor?
Would somebody nuke Libya so we don't have to split our time between these two news stories.
These containment vessels were not built to withstand a 9.0 or 9.1 magnitude earthquake.
One has to wonder at how much damage to the containment structures occurred.
The Japanese Gov is moving hot and heavy now, as both cesium and iodine have been detected at Fukushima indicating the containers of uranium fuel have begun to melt.
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_45.html
Keep in mind that the containment structures were built to withstand a 6.7 DIRECTLY UNDER THE PLANT. An 8.9 230 miles away does not translate directly as far as ground acceleration is concerned under the plant itself.
Fair point.
But as I understand it, the EQ has been upgraded to an official 9.1, and the magnitude of energy and damage between a 6.7 and a 9.1 is literally light years apart.
How that reconciles, proportionately, given the distance factor, I do not know.
Nobody knows at this point. Will have to wait for the accelerometer readings from the plant itself. It is possible that the G-force readings will be higher than design criteria, if so, then I suspect nuclear plants will become much harder to build in the future - anywhere.
You are post facto! how do we fix it?
I love of how some of you assholes just make stuff up. Like you come into a thread and
"YELLOWSTONE JUST BLEW UP"
and get people freaking out. fu fu fu. im going to bed.
ass-clown
CNN is useless.
Watch NHK.
So, yesterday PIMCO dumps all its Treasuries. Today the dollar rallies. Anything to this?
Reuters: Explosion heard at Tepco's Fukushima Daiichi plant - Jiji
Not good...
Reaaly! Your sources?
24 hours to repair the problem...
Where is Jack Bauer when you need him
Reuters: Japan Nuclear Safety Commission: still trying to confirm if there was an explosion at Fukushima plant; Several people appear to have been injured after reported Fukushima plant explosion
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_38.html
They had to stop the pressure release due to high radiation.
Outer structure of building that houses reactor at Fukushima plant appears to have blown off - NHK
Beat it!
Breaking:Explosion at Tepco's Fukushima Daiichi plant heard around 0630 GMT
It's irrelevant. They lost control of the reactors. The cores of the other reactors are going to get HOT!
Here is video of explosion that has apparently ripped the hull off the nuclear facility! http://www.twitvid.com/LICNU
Wow... that doesn't look good at all.
That was huge. The people that convinced me that the reactor is safe might have some splaining to do.
They're fucked. Much worse than Hiroshima?
Man !! That's some explosion...