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NYSE Common Stock Volume Plunges To Sub-2001 Levels

Tyler Durden's picture


When we pointed out our volume chart earlier, which indicated that volume is now a laughable joke, we received one of the traditionally amusing responses, "ZH misses the point on volume because they data mine and only compare it to the volume during the crisis. SPY volume is STILL higher today than it was pre-2007. So are we to believe that the crisis volume levels are the "real" levels for volume? If you compare back to pre-crisis, volume is actually still pretty high." Here is our response.

For those who refuse to accept the reality, and/or are unable to interpret what the chart says, allow us to explain: NYSE common stock volume is lower than it was in 2010, in 2009, in 2008, in 2007, in 2006, in 2005, in 2004, in 2003, in 2002 and in 2001. We stopped there (couldn't help it - felt obligated to data mine a little bit).

And incidentally, here is why the Deutsche Borse better be able to sell the NYSE for scrap value.

No worries though - the NYSE liquidation value should be surging quite soon. We hear all those collocation boxes can fetch a pretty penny when the price of stainless steel hits infinity.



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Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:17 | 961401 AnarchoCapitalist
AnarchoCapitalist's picture


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:45 | 961542 ShortBusTrader
ShortBusTrader's picture

With the huge amount of volume which has been moved off-exchange, this is still a useless exercise. IF you can figure out the real total volume, you might have a point to make.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:09 | 961636 spartan117
spartan117's picture

You mean the buying done by the PDs?  They'll account for 100% of the volume soon.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:04 | 962037 Modus
Modus's picture

You are raising a legitimate question so i dont know why your post was flaged junk. Still though the answer is a bit more complicated. You are right saying much volume has moved off-exchange and into dark pools, ecns and so on but the question is what kind of liquidity and volume is it and who stands behind it?

Looking at on-exchange volume and liquidity reveals one thing for sure and that is that participation by retail and small institutionals is still low and lower than the previous years.

What that means for market structure, stability and the proper and efficient function of the capital markets as a source of funding and, yes true that, long-term capital, has to be seen.

I will not say that our markets are totally disfunctional today but some serious questions need to be answered.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 22:59 | 962393 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

It's all those one year old babies trading on E-Trade.


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 23:11 | 962417 if
if's picture

Retail, ...etc also trades on ECNs and other ATS so I would not infer too much from the on-exchange volume.  AFAIK all trades regardless of execution venue must print on the consolidated tape.  That would imply the ZH analysis is correct.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 08:03 | 962932 gasmiinder
gasmiinder's picture

 You are raising a legitimate question so i dont know why your post was flaged junk

What does that have to do with it?  Most ZH's believe the "junk" flag is their "dislike" button.  The concept has been broken for a very long time.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:06 | 961818 scaleindependent
scaleindependent's picture

The volume graph uncannily resembles the U.S. workforce participation graph.

Coinky dink?

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 00:20 | 962585 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Anyone find it interesting that Tyler used the ES volume as his defense in the first piece, then I go to the SPY volume to prove he is data mining..... and then he writes this using the NYSE?

Here is the S&P 500 volume going back 50 years.

The case statnds that the SP 500 today has more volume than it did through most of the climb from the 2002 lows until the 2007 peak.

Why would you write about the ES volume when you had NYSE volume in mind in the first place?

Bottom line is SP 500 volume has not collapsed as was mentioned in the first article.

Of course the cult here will see nothing wrong with this bait and switch. And I am honored that by cover blowing was enough to cause another article. Who woulda thunk little ole me could get on the radar for calling out the truth here at ZH.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 00:48 | 962628 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Even more data that is not data mined or series that don't make much sense like a 200 day moving average. Direct from the NYSE:

"NYSE Daily Share Volume includes NYSE volume in all issues traded at the NYSE executed by NYSE.  NYSE Group Daily Share Volume in NYSE Listed Issues volume includes volume in NYSE Listed Issues executed by NYSE and NYSE Arca."

2009 shows group volume in the 30-50 billion dollar range every day, not much different than 2010 and 2011 numbers. And the NYSE group shares seem to be about the same just eyeballing it as years ago.

Maybe I am missing something? Still not buying that volume is somehow in the toilet historically.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 01:08 | 962642 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Dollars != Volume, or are you really that retarded?  If 5 shares were the only thing trading today at $10 billion per share, does that mean volume is normal?  You really are quite dense if you believe that is correct. 

Additionally, you seem to not understand the difference between the NYSE and the S&P500, and I have no fucking clue why you were trying to point to an ETF as indicitive as the over all volume of shares traded.  I suggest you take some basic finance courses at your local community college before you continue posting. 

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 01:23 | 962659 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Look at the data again Mr. Anger Problem (but hey - the doom and gloom around ZH can cause that) - it has both dollars and share volume, and they haven't changed much. I ended up using actual SP 500 index volume - not the ETF in the above example as well. It looks about the same as the tracking ETF - imagine that.

Since you missed the truth through your doom colored glasses, the comment I made was:

"2009 shows group volume in the 30-50 billion dollar range every day, not much different than 2010 and 2011 numbers. And the NYSE group shares seem to be about the same just eyeballing it as years ago"

As in group share volume.

pwned ;)

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 01:35 | 962685 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Wow, seriously?!?  Look at what you just quoted again.  Still talking about dollars as that is anything to rate share volume by.  Again share volume != dollar volume.  Shares trades are the actual shares not the dollar value of those shares traded.  I'm not talking about averages either.  If I had a link to a site that had the info for free for the NYSE then I would.  Unfortunately that info is only done by subscription basis.  But what you can find out is that there are 2317 different stocks on the NYSE that one can choose from, so 500 is not the full cabose.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 02:39 | 962774 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

I'll keep repeating it since you keep missing it, this time without the first sentence:

"And the NYSE group shares seem to be about the same just eyeballing it as years ago"

As in group share volume."

To help you with what group share volume is, I repeat yet again from the NYSE site itself:

"NYSE Daily Share Volume includes NYSE volume in all issues traded at the NYSE executed by NYSE.  NYSE Group Daily Share Volume in NYSE Listed Issues volume includes volume in NYSE Listed Issues executed by NYSE and NYSE Arca."

Group share volume of the NYSE, just eyeballing the day to day volume - hasn't changed all too much.

Regardless, Tyler was using the ES - which is the SP 500 futures to show how bad volume was. So I was saying in the last post, SP 500 volume today, although lower than the crisis time, is still higher than pre crisis.

Of which Tyler was then offended and thought himself cute by posting my comment as the impetus for a new article, and then proceeded to show the 200 MA of volume on the NYSE....


That's fine and dandy, this is his site and he can say what he wants. I just found it interesting that no one but me caught the slight of hand.

He has a true cult following.

No charge for this lesson.... ;)

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 03:25 | 962815 Finn
Finn's picture

Since you're comparing dollar volumes, why not use Z$ as today's measure? They're both dollars, and it looks even better. Right?

For the statistically less challenged, it's pretty clear that the if argument about dollar volume were to even a drop of hold water, one would need to use inflation adjusted volumes as a minimal starting point, and that's real inflation, not what your fine gubernymint publishes. Tyler's approach of useing numerical volumes seems sooooo much more realistic, at least it compares apples to apples.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 10:16 | 963205 Derp2012
Derp2012's picture

This data seems correct, and it's disappointing that more people don't respond to your question in a reasonable way, for example by actually reading your posts -- and that Tyler seems to be data mining to support his thesis.  Thanks for persisting in pointing out the error.

Tyler's thesis that the market is a hoax could still be accurate, if we could deduct the HFT churn. I don't know where to get that data though. Even if the thesis is "correct" it doesn't make it OK to cherry-pick data to support it.  If I want bogus data, I can always go to the BLS website.


Tue, 02/15/2011 - 11:31 | 963475 NoLongerABagHolder
NoLongerABagHolder's picture

Thanks Derp

You may be the only other reasonable person on this site. At least you are the only one not clouded enough to read the ENTIRE post. The fact tha another came on and ranted about dollar volume is a bit shocking. Makes you wonder if he read anything but the other guys post.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 02:47 | 962785 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I seem to recall that Daimler-Benz once owned Chrysler.  Deutsche Bourse, watch out, some o'deez blushing-bride American companies might be packing "junk in the trunk"!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:18 | 961402 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Clearly you are picking data points.  You have to go back to before the beginning of time to really be impartial.  Hell, we are WAYYYY up from the constant zero volume that we saw before the exchange was founded!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:24 | 961425 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

He called the creationist museum, and they confirmed; lowest volume since JC rode in on a dinosaur 6k years ago.. the beginning.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:43 | 961532 Michael
Michael's picture

Volume, Volume? We don't need no stinking Volume!

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 04:47 | 962856 Michael
Michael's picture

All your Volumes are belong to us.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:50 | 961564 dan10400
dan10400's picture

Jim Cramer I presume.   For a nano-second HFT trade I thought you were talking about Jesus Christ.   Silly me.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:12 | 961650 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


All i hear all bloody day is stocks are a Fed conspiracy and "Don't fight the Fed" the markets are going skywards. How can you fight the Fed when their cavalry can't be seen anywhere to be fought? The volumes on all 3 US markets have been pitiful and same goes for most European Indexes, where is the mighty midget worrier!!! 

If the Fed are pumping up stocks where's the hard evidence of the bearded midgets steroid abuse? Everyone and their cat has been crediting the Fed with this stock market rally but these blind pussies haven't noticed it's just the usual dead cat bounce not the tubby midget punching above his weight.

Let's be fair too, everything the Fed says is total BS designed to sucker the gullible. So when the Fed says they're focusing on stocks you can bet their money is just being pissed down a toilet at another Wall Street bank or Treasury bailout (because no foreigners will buy their toxic shit) to prop them up.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:34 | 962120 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

This is one humongous dead cat bounce! There is no way a market can perform like stocks have been performing without help. That dead cat must have been getting high on helium before falling off the cliff.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:21 | 961409 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What, the pig Market is closed?  Just can't tell anymore....

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:07 | 961626 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Lean Hog or Pork Bellies?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:22 | 961417 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Yowza...that buy and hold philosoopy must be coming back in vogue.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:24 | 961423 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Short and gold?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 23:26 | 962467 SunSword
SunSword's picture

You might not be far off. People who used to put money into their 401K -- now are not. But they are not liquidating the 401K either. So they are not buying or selling.

Now it can be argued, especially based on current insider selling ratio and everything else that is going on, that they should sell. But then what are they going to do? They either leave their 401K dollars IN dollars -- an obviously bad move -- or put them somewhere else. Problem is, you can't buy physical gold and silver with 401K (oh yeah you CAN in the sense that you can give it to someone who claims to buy the gold and silver and do you trust that?) So people are stuck.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 00:26 | 962597 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

you nailed my situation perfectly

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 01:23 | 962678 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Most 401k's will let you borrow your own money, usually up to 50%, and do what ever you wish. Take half, buy gold and silver, and do a 5 year repayment plan.

I did.


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:24 | 961426 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Oh look, my trade of 10 shares during lunch time made a significant blip in volumes! I'm a market mover now boo-yah!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:49 | 961758 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Geez, another falls victim to NFLX.  All bow heads in mourning.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 02:55 | 962791 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I'm looking forward to the day when science isolates the coloration-gene from tigers and can find a way to place it in common house-cats, that would really be the cat's meow!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:27 | 961434 Ferg .
Ferg .'s picture

I've pointed this out in past posts but I think it's appropriate to mention it once again :

Take a look at a chart of the DJIA or the S&P 500 from the 2009 bottom to the present day . Then take a look at volume over the same period . Compare the two . The inverse correlation between the indexes and volume is glaring .

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:27 | 961435 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

We hear all those collocation boxes can fetch a pretty penny when the price of stainless steel hits infinity.

Stainless is fine and all, but how much actual tungsten do they contain? That's where the action is, yeah man.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:28 | 961444 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I am Jacks smirking revenge:-)

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:29 | 961447 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Do these idiots think we are that stupid. What the F.... Don't know when this will end but it will be the shot "heard round the world".

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:29 | 961449 max2205
max2205's picture

Divergence trades = suicide

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:50 | 961761 mynhair
mynhair's picture

So that's how Mark did it!  Was semi-curious....

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:30 | 961452 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

And if you only counted non-HFT trades...yikes!!!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:31 | 961459 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture

And how much of this is High Frequency Trading playing musical chairs?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:34 | 961482 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

thanks for the chart TD. Very nice.

More M&A business for da bankers.

Selling more exchanges.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:38 | 961499 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Well. My 10 shares were not traded with any frequency. So there's a data point for you.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:32 | 961461 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

This is bullish, right?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:35 | 961484 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

yeah.  but only if I go short.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:32 | 961464 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture




1) Your typical short term perspective

2) A long term perspective TO PROVE YOUR CASE!



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:39 | 961515 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Did you intend to be funny? Cuz that was funny. If not then my apologies for laughing.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:45 | 961538 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

You'll be laughing in a 6x6 jail cell once I find you in contempt.



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:57 | 961592 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm 6' 6" good luck getting me in there.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:32 | 961709 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

That's only going to be helpful if you are 6'6" in all directions.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:45 | 961742 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well biologist cat. What you guess would be my measurement from fingertip to fingertip arms extended?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:38 | 961724 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture







Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:59 | 961789 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Penal code 148.

BTW. You're in violation of penal code 302a in my church of fuck your taxes.

LOL if you had asked me 30 years ago if I would eventually study economics or law I would have laughed at you so hard.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 22:04 | 962216 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Can I be ordained in your church?

I want to be a priest of the Fuck Your Taxes Church.

This could be our theme song:

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 22:22 | 962294 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Um, your honor, judgments are spelled, you know, like 'judgment'.  fyi

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:32 | 961465 jobs1234
jobs1234's picture

Who cares about volume in a BTFD environment?


And Tyler, you might also want to remind your "friend" that its not a great sign that volume was higher at these S&P levels back in 2007 than it is now.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:32 | 961466 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

thanks for the follow up. proves what i suspected without doing the actual research for myself.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:33 | 961469 redpill
redpill's picture

would all the HFT computer trades be included in this volume also?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:32 | 961470 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture

And how much of this is High Frequency Traders playing musical chairs?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:33 | 961472 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

stop it.  You are scaring the troll.  The problem is that if I go short the market will zoom and if I go long the market will tank.  The market always does the opposite of what I do.  It follows me around and calls me nasty names and tells me I am gay.  I am not gay!  dammit!


Seriously what should I do when all five of my last trades have gone the opposite?  I am long the stock market now.  Does that tell you anything?  However I may yank everything out tomorrow and go short.  I don't know what to do and I doubt the market does either.  I can fool it with my confusion.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:36 | 961489 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

play options. buy straddles.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:38 | 961503 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

that is actually a good idea.  Volatility is bound to go up, unless I short volatility.  This is the worst three month run I have ever had.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:44 | 961521 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I will probably just waste some money on puts.  Do something really boring.  Cause I gotta believe the market is going to zoom 30 percent!  Don't want to lose any upside.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:49 | 961559 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I feel your pain. Been there also. Had a shitty run for a while with equities...finally turned my back on them and went to full time Forex and Futures trading.

I find forex to be much more responsive to chart patterns and thus more a degree. It was a good move for me. Much higher success ratio on my trades now....which is good considering this is my only way to keep income comin in.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:06 | 961624 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

Have done the same, and judging from volume in the other markets, many others have too.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:56 | 961781 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

YOu guys have some good points.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:33 | 962114 Blano
Blano's picture

Join the club, top.  And options ain't helping either.  Ah well, just gotta keep plugging away.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 00:31 | 962602 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Let me know when you boys get those deck chairs arranged.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:37 | 961493 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Oh wait I am 1 for six.  My USO trade worked out.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:02 | 961607 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

There's always George Costanza ... you can short yourself. Just do the opposite.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:56 | 961778 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I tried that, but I kept getting confused if I was doing the opposite, or the opposite of the opposite.  Seriously it is hard to outsmart yourself, or outfool yourself.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:50 | 961992 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

lol TC you sound as confused as a fart in a perfume factory.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:35 | 961473 Island_Dweller
Island_Dweller's picture


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:34 | 961476 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

The less volume there is the easier the manipulation by Bernanke's crooked crew. What do you think the flash crash was? That little engineered move was to scare all sane people out of the market, so the Bernanke could get full control to march this dung heap higher without interruption.

This isn't a market, it's the Bernanke's/government propaganda meter.

The U.S. citizen's have sat by idle and let their great country be taken over by the maddest group of genocidal men there are, and the rest of the world needs to ditch the cancer before it spreads irreparably. 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:40 | 961520 Misean
Misean's picture

What do you think the flash crash was?

A volume spike...

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:43 | 961533 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Exactly. The little volume that there is belongs to the club members George carlin once mentioned. You know.. Its a big club and we aint in it.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:48 | 961552 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Bingo, my thoughts exactly.  The thinner the volume, the easier this gets.  It's, in no way, intended to help anyone other than those in-the-know.  It's pretty obvious that retail simply isn't going to bite at the bait.  Therefore, it simply has to go higher and higher and higher and higher.

This is just flat fucked up at this point.  Period.  Simple.  Obvious.  Completely and utterly fucked up.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:53 | 961575 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Exactly, they wanted all the peasantry out of their stock markets, their usefullness was over. The rest of the world should just cut their losses from these maniacs before theyre pulled under as well.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:46 | 961735 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Aahh right! So here's your conspiracy theory Boys;

Stocks up  = Fed is pumping in QE volumes of funny money

Stocks up but zero evidence of QE volume = it's still a conspiracy

How can the Fed lose when you guys see the conspiracy no matter what happens and no matter which way the evidence points... even in totally the opposite direction of your Fed QE conspiracy???

Any chance there's just no volume and just no conspiracy Boys?, didn't think so, stupid thought!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:06 | 961820 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

thanks for the junk Boys, sorry to allow a little light (evidence) in on your delusional conspiracy theories

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:14 | 961846 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture

Junked for the excessive use of "boys" you silly cunt


there be no shelter here

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:23 | 961892 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

I'm neither silly coz i'm making a serious point nor a cunt coz I'm a BOY're junked arsehole for being a pointless bitch 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:43 | 961973 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture

No.  You're silly because

a) you try to be hipster by using 'coz', but then

b) look really fucking stupid by making a triple post

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:24 | 961898 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

I'm neither silly coz i'm making a serious point nor a cunt coz I'm a BOY're junked arsehole for being a pointless bitch 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:25 | 961902 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

I'm neither silly coz i'm making a serious point nor a cunt coz I'm a BOY're junked for being a pointless bitch 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:32 | 961929 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture

Truer words never spoken, you are obviously a BOY


know your enemy

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:45 | 961940 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"know your enemy" indeed.... I've got you down as a tranny, how am i doing?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:49 | 961989 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

close, ZG... I'd guess it's some little four-eyes weasel in his momma's basement hiding behind the bitchenest avatar he could find.... let's see if she/he comes up with anything intelligent the next few weeks

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:56 | 962011 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

shall we hold our breath for a showing of tranny IQ or will we run out of O2 before then?!!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:43 | 962142 dudditz
dudditz's picture

I have been out of the market since Jul 10 last year.  I cannot believe our government allows this crap.  Our Democracy is almost a Plutocracy (at least we can still vote), Capitalism has been dead for the last 30 years.  This is going to end ugly, and if you can't realize that, then just do me a favor and stay in the market and BTFD you moron.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:38 | 961500 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

anybody noticing the /ES nose diving in AH?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:45 | 961540 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

-2 points?


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:49 | 961557 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

It'll be +3 handles by the time I drop some turds in the bowl at around 7:15 in the a.m. tomorrow.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:56 | 961589 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

1330 to 1325 - 2 points? And you trade with those math skills?

the drop from 3:55 PM to 4:55 PM was the biggest move of the day.

I'm not sure what chart you are looking at...but it sure as fuck ain't a live one.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:17 | 961662 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

...and it will be completely reversed by 9:35 am tomorrow.

Seriously, who gives a fuck?  When I deep asleep and banging the young version of Ms. Silverstone (from the Crush, naturally), this will magically be levitated and rainbows, puppy dogs, and gumdrops will the order of the day.


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:07 | 961823 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

people who trade give a fuck since trading futures does not limit us to trading between 9:30 - 4PM M-F.

that 5 point move is a lot of money if you're on the right side of the trade.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:26 | 962096 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Then, you had best trade it before I take my morning dump.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:36 | 962124 Blano
Blano's picture

Lol, duly noted.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:38 | 961506 Rick64
Rick64's picture

OT, but thought it was interesting.

South Carolina lawmaker wants separate currency for state

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:10 | 961835 dognamedabu
dognamedabu's picture

Hey thanks, that was sort of interesting.


I just  read one I thought was pretty interesting  as well, has video 

Woman stripped naked in jail cell


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:42 | 961528 toros
toros's picture

Does this mean that there are fewer High Net Worth individuals, or more low volume rich people?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:48 | 961555 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Stock market = 401k bank vault or CALpers vault.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 18:50 | 961562 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Short gold, long silver.  But not for long, if that makes any sense.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:05 | 961620 sellstop
sellstop's picture

Why is the stock market important?

Is it a sign of the health of a nation that "everybody" is buying and selling stock shares?

Maybe there is LESS speculation. Maybe there is less TRADING. 

What exactly is the point of pointing out low volume in the stock markets. Eh, Tyler??



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:11 | 961638 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

2nd most misinformed post of the day.  I recommend reading up on HFT and healthy markets in general.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:52 | 961766 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


The Stock Indexes are the leading economic indicator. Where the Indexes go the economy follows... 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:15 | 961852 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

that was funny.

(you are joking right?)

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:39 | 961954 sellstop
sellstop's picture

Really. So in 1999 the economy was going to get even better, right.

In 2007, the economy was strong?

And now, the economy is strong?. Or weak?. If the stock market is an economic indicator, why all the angst.

The economy is improving. Right?

Is the Fed money going straight into the stock and speculative markets? Is it still an economic indicator?


The stock market goes up because people buy stocks. Because they are optimistic.

The market goes down when people sell stocks. They are collectively more pessimistic.

Markets are NOT efficient. Not all of the time. And the stock market does not reflect the economic health of the country as a whole. It reflects the economic health of the financial country. The stock market doesn't care how many homeless roam the streets. It doesn't care how many people die from violence on the streets. Until they revolt.(Egypt)

The stock market is an indicator of investor sentiment, and an indicator of corporate profitability. And I don't think that corporate profitability neccessarily correlates to a healthy and sustainable economy.



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:08 | 962052 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

Stock market prices have successfully predicted 12 out of the last 7 recessions ;)

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:54 | 961771 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Maybe there is less population in sheeple willing to gamble.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:08 | 961629 KenShabby
KenShabby's picture

Bitch slapped.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:11 | 961645 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

If you 'buy and hold', there is no reason to trade or have any volume. And if no-one is selling......then prices go up.  Russell 36,000!!!!!!

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:19 | 961667 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

 if no-one is selling......then prices go up.


Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:55 | 961775 mynhair
mynhair's picture

HFTs circle jerking.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:02 | 961797 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

Who's the pivot person (a.k.a. cum dumpster?)

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:07 | 961791 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture


Nobody "buys and holds' anymore so that's not the reason for low volumes. The average 'hold' has come down from 36 months to 6-9 months now, that's not so much a sign of the times but more a sign that 'Buy and Hold' doesn't fuking work as an investment strategy!

Only last year I watched some total dork who managed a fund of $3bn plus on CNBC explain how he was a 'value investor' holding stocks for 10 years or more. I almost pissed myself (almost!)

To put that in perspective most businessmen have very little idea where their business will be in 1 year because change is happening so fast nowadays. So if the businessmen running their businesses couldn't give you an honest idea of how they'll be in a year what chance this 'value investor' having an f'n clue 10 years ahead???  

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:34 | 961882 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:35 | 961889 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:24 | 961896 American Dreams
American Dreams's picture

Average 'hold' time for a stock is less than 1 minute - pulled that fact out of thin air just like the rest of you post.  Laughable at best.


there be no shelter here

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 09:32 | 963062 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Maybe businessmen who don't have any idea where their business will be in a year are just fucking stupid?  We like to pretend every leader is a unique snowflake without whom the world would collapse, but the truth is that alot of them are just warm bodies.  Perhaps that fund manager was holding something like Intel or've heard of computers, right?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:08 | 961827 reading
reading's picture

You need someone to buy for your "theory" to actually work...

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 19:55 | 961773 scattergun
scattergun's picture

Technically, no volume means no one is buying, and prices go down.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:04 | 961779 mynhair
mynhair's picture

What new planet are you from, again?

Bitch Bank A sells to Bitch Bank B, gets paid per share.  Rinse, repeat, ad infinitum.

Bitch Bank A can rebuy said shares back from Bitch Bank B in a subpenny loss price, and still make bucks.

Just criminal.  Kickbacks elsewhere get you orange jump suits.

The scheme would fall apart if subpennying was done away with, which is why it still exists.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:59 | 962021 sellstop
sellstop's picture

Working people all across America are seeing their returns from their bond funds go down. They are allocating more to stocks. It is a steady flow. It is buy and hold. They like to buy the dips. Like buying tomatoes. Buy a couple extra when they are on sale.

And as market volatility goes down, it is harder to make money actively trading. (Believe me, I know!) So, the traders quit being so active, volume declines. But until something spooks a lot of people the indexes can rise on low volume. And the periodic selloffs can be met with buying.

There are some big money interests buying on the dips also. "Big money" needs volume to buy in quantity.

Low volatility is low fear. Not bad for an economy that depends on confidence.



Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:06 | 961819 whatz that smell
whatz that smell's picture

..."No worries though - the NYSE liquidation value should be surging quite soon. We hear all those collocation boxes can fetch a pretty penny when the price of stainless steel hits infinity."

somebody smoking the hopium, alas.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 20:51 | 961996 yipcarl
yipcarl's picture

I F-ing LOVE this site.  You guys ROCK. 

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 01:03 | 962644 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The place is a rush, that's for sure. 

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:24 | 962083 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

SPY volume is STILL higher today than it was pre-2007.


One ETF does not a market make.  But since they brought it up.....

There are 342 Million shares of SPY.  The three month average volume is 193,000,000.

Does it concern anyone else that we're supposed to believe that daily volume averages 56.4% of outstanding shares?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:37 | 962128 prophet
prophet's picture

Common stock?!  Geez, I thought the post this morning was about ES volume and figured traders were just shying away from the manipulation for a bit.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 21:40 | 962138 JeffSpindleman
JeffSpindleman's picture

What is the point.  The volume is low, so what?

We are headed up.  You snooze you loose

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 22:21 | 962284 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

escalator elevator down. you play snooze...wipe out.

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 23:18 | 962429 Fractal Leverage
Fractal Leverage's picture

This has me confused.


When we pointed out our volume chart earlier, which indicated that volume is now a laughable joke, we received one of the traditionally amusing responses, "ZH misses the point on volume because they data mine and only compare it to the volume during the crisis. SPY volume is STILL higher today than it was pre-2007. So are we to believe that the crisis volume levels are the "real" levels for volume? If you compare back to pre-crisis, volume is actually still pretty high." Here is our response.




When we point out in our volume chart below, we indicate that volume is now a falling dramatically.  SPY volume is STILL higher today than it was pre-2007. So are we to believethat the crisis volume levels are the "real" levels for volume? If you compare back to pre-crisis, volume actually still looks pretty high."



The wording in the Pamria document is pretty awkward.  Is ZH in partnership with Pamria or did they just plagerize this, take out the snide language and throw it up to their clients?

Mon, 02/14/2011 - 23:45 | 962506 Horizon3
Horizon3's picture

It would be reasonable to consider that the volume plunge is a result of the very recent, (Yesterday) of Deutch Borse' intent to purchase the NYSE.


Tue, 02/15/2011 - 10:55 | 963360 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Hedge Funds, Position Traders, Liquidity Providers (HFT), and Hot Money Speculators all exist to prey on Alpha Investors. No doubt they are the favorites of the brokers and exchanges too, since they pay them larger commissions. When their activity is a small portion of the market things seem to be in balance. But, as their numbers grow their Alpha Prey gets scarce and hides, like a lone field mouse running from a pack of wolves.  Soon the wolves will have no choice but to start feeding on themselves.

Tue, 02/15/2011 - 20:57 | 965463 co2010
co2010's picture

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