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Obama To Freeze Government Salaries At All Time High

Tyler Durden's picture





 

In 10 minutes the teleprompter in chief will announce that he is about to freeze government salaries for two years. Of course, government workers thank him, as this means federal salaries which have exploded in the past 5 years will be stuck at all time highs for at least two years, even as nominal salaries for everyone else (except FIRE workers of course) continue to decline. As we suggested a few days ago, in order to promote some vaguely credible idea of austerity, instead of freezing salaries, Obama needs to be cutting. Why? One look at the chart below explains it all.

And here is what we said a few days back on the topic of record government worker salaries:

For all those wondering how to cut down on government expenditures, here's a thought: cut the skyrocketing salaries! A study by USA Today,
using US Office of Personnel Management data, confirms what has been
widely known: that the biggest beneficiaries of government largesse over
the past 5 years as a worker cohort, are none other than Federal
workers themselves. The numbers are stunning: those earning over
$150,000 in the past five years have grown from 7,420 to 82,034, a
1,006% increase. More shockingly, those earning over $180,000 has surged
from just 805 in 2005, to 16,912 in 2010: a 2,001% increase. And
it is on the background of this that Congress is planning on giving 2.1
million federal workers another 1.4% across the board pay raise!

Additionally, it appears that the bulk of the gains have taken place
since Obama took office. Can someone please stop the lunacy: this
country is beyond bankrupt and it turns out that in addition to Wall
Street (which everyone knows does nothing but transfer wealth from the
middle class to a few choice CEOs and groupthinking Bloomberg terminal
operators), the biggest thief is the very government itself, which has
perfected the art of giving with one hand, and taking with 10, almost as
well as those enclosed in glass corner offices on Park, Lexington and
Broad (and now West).

The stunning comparison of what Federal workers were making in 2005 and 2010, spread by income bucket:

More from USA Today:

Federal salaries have grown robustly in recent years, according to a USA TODAY analysis of Office of Personnel Management data. Key findings:

  • Government-wide raises. Top-paid
    staff have increased in every department and agency. The Defense
    Department had nine civilians earning $170,000 or more in 2005, 214 when
    Obama took office and 994 in June.
  • Long-time workers thrive.
    The biggest pay hikes have gone to employees who have been with the
    government for 15 to 24 years. Since 2005, average salaries for this
    group climbed 25% compared with a 9% inflation rate.
  • Physicians rewarded. Medical doctors at veterans hospitals, prisons and elsewhere earn an average of $179,500, up from $111,000 in 2005.

Federal workers earning $150,000 or more make up 3.9% of the workforce, up from 0.4% in 2005.

Since
2000, federal pay and benefits have increased 3% annually above
inflation compared with 0.8% for private workers, according to the
Bureau of Economic Analysis. Members of Congress earn $174,000, up from
$141,300 in 2000, an increase below the rate of inflation.

Jessica
Klement, government affairs director at the Federal Managers
Association, says the government's official pay analysis shows that
federal workers earn less than private workers for comparable jobs.
Still, she says, managers are willing to give up next year's raise: "If
it will help the country bounce back, they're willing to make the
sacrifice."

And just to make sure you get really
angry, here is how one Federal Union views the fact that government
workers as a whole are now the second best paid group after Wall Street:

National
Treasury Employees Union  President Colleen Kelley counters that the
proposed raise "is a modest amount and should be implemented" to help
make salaries more comparable with those in the private sector.

Once
again, we get confirmation that Americans always get nothing more or
less than the thieves in control they deserve, and elect.

 


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Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:53 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Change ?!?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Yes Spalding, of the "small" variety. For most people that is.

What was that famous line from Animal Farm, about some animals being more equal than others.

I guess the definition of who is "others" is getting defined pretty quickly.

If you are in the "middle" class, anywhere, be ready to get crushed between the "Upper" and the flaming rage from the lower as the chasm widens. I say choose the "lower" side as a lifestyle choice. Guaranteed return on dis-investment.

 

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/snake-eyes/ 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment dkny
dkny's picture

Yes, we had change: we went from white to black.

Seriously, what more do you want?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment 66Sexy
66Sexy's picture

this is a deflationary indicator. the implication is that they have lost control of the dollar vs commodities trade and gold is performing positively in a deflationary speculative environment...

 

in other words, the shit is hitting the fan.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:04 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

is it a deflation indicator?

it looks like the 'commodity' of federal employees is pushing into bubble territory and they're trying to cap that market with price controls... and you know what the historic result of price caps has been...

add to that how much we're all going to want more federal employees in the future, right? go long federal employees.

kind of like gold - but different.

:^)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:20 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

+1

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

This is no surprise at all to those of us who have been paying attention.

President Obama is a person who describes his entire three month experience in the private sector as "working behind enemy lines."   Dreams From My Father Ch.7 p. 55-56

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:25 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

It is sickening to see these oligarchs pompously promoting statism.

Everything that the government provides, it must first confiscate from the private sector.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:26 | Link to Comment flacon
flacon's picture

 

Keep in mind that at age 22, Barry Baraq, the pot smokin' drop out looser was writing articles on interest-rate swaps. I kid you not! It's in his book:

 

"Then one day, as I sat down at my computer to write an article on interest-rate swaps, something unexpected happened. Auma called." ~ Dreams From My Father

 

You can google "dreams from my father pdf" and download it if you like. 

Here's the quote that Mercury was talking about:

"Eventually a consulting house to multinational corporations agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines, I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe."  ~ Dreams From My Father

 

 

I just want to know how he goes from his bewilderment with his job ("blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe.") to writing articles about "interest-rate swaps". Did he even write this book?!

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:57 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Doesn't seem like something Obama would pen, must have had a ghost writer.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:14 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

obviously, this book was written by members of the international banking cartel as they sat on a yacht, smoking pot, and giggling their arses off about how the general public would buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:26 | Link to Comment MyKillK
MyKillK's picture

I thought he was a lawyer?? Why is he writing about economics?

It probably doesn't make sense because it's an invented past. We know almost nothing of the real Obama. The company he worked for in New York (Business International Corporation) is thought to be a CIA front company so my suspicion is that Obama has been a CIA agent since his early youth (both his mother and indonesian step father had many CIA connections as well)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Didn't we already prove wage and price freezes don't work just a few decades ago?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

Politics has always been different from reality.  Although tried and failed in the past, sufficient time and circumstances have changed to allow a politician to leverage the popular idea that freezing prices helps.  Next, expect trade restrictions.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Just another form of "This time it's different".

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Unlawful Justice
Unlawful Justice's picture

'Politics has always been different from reality'

They've got there own floor all to them selves.

A word I just found says it all. Dissimulation


Dissimulation is a form of deception in which one conceals the truth. It consists of concealing the truth, or in the case of half-truths, concealing parts of the truth, like inconvenient or secretinformation. Dissimulation techniques include: camouflage (blend into the background), disguise appearance (altering the model) and dazzle (obfuscate the model). Dissimulation differs fromsimulation, in which one exhibits false information. Dissimulation commonly takes the form of concealing one's ability in order to gain the element of surprise over an opponent.

[edit]Examples

Pool hustling might be seen as a form of dissimulation, because the hustler conceals their real talent. Yet it may also (or instead) be considered a form of simulation, because every pool hustle conveys false information about the hustler's abilities.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissimulation

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Didn't you get the memo? :)

Obama is implementing sticky wages a la Keynes.

"The Way Sticky Wages Should Be Done - Finger Lickin' Good"

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:00 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The point is, this time they've been frozen to keep the Congress from lowering them.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:07 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

ouch! good read on that one!!!

(watch the other hand)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Didn't we already prove wage and price freezes don't work just a few decades ago?"

That Means Its Time to Dust It Off and Trot It Out Again!!
The Amerikan Sheeple have long forgotten. Why not go Nixon?

Obummer is the most disingenuous, duplicitous MoFo since Tricky Dick "Peace With Honor in Vietnam" Nixon...

What's Obummer's Next Nixon Move? You Decide:

  1. [  ] Hire Kissinger
  2. [  ] Bomb Cambodia
  3. [  ] Spy on the DNC headquarters
  4. [  ] Take the US off of the Gold Standard

I can't wait for Obummer to take us off the gold standard again...

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Federal Unions "Horray for me and fuck you"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Sircornflakes
Sircornflakes's picture

How about every Senator, POTUS & VP just forego their salaries for the next two years.....cut Federal salaries by 15%, freeze them there for five years and someone lead by example.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:26 | Link to Comment cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

AMEN, brother (sis?). The place I worked back in the 2008-09 panic - as shitty as it was - got a surprised "tip o' my hat" from me when they cut all us grunts 5%, but CEO took 25% and VP's 15%

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:35 | Link to Comment solgundy
solgundy's picture

Nah,,,don't worry about them...there's always the C.O.L.A. route.....more BS from BO....wait didn't he used to be BS???

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:56 | Link to Comment John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Freeze means they cannot go backwards either right??

Brilliant

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:11 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

+1

That's *exactly* the purpose for this.

There will soon be announcements in *cuts* for Medicare/Medicaid, HUD assistence programs, Food Stamps, and even Social Security.  It will be part of the re-organization as Pensioners find out their checks will be getting (significantly) smaller too.

Good thing the Gubbermint workers are protected from such reality, including wholesale deflation in the *real* economy.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Mikla, love your commentary.  So I gotta ask: What program is there that has allowed gubmit workers real estate holding to not only remain stable, but get the asserted mega boost?  Are they paid with a preferred currency, you know blue backs rather than green ones?

Meanwhile the ag, pharma, defense and many other subsidies, most especially TBTF continue to rocket past all of this.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:23 | Link to Comment Ragnarok
Ragnarok's picture

Their D.C. real-estate will remain well bid, because of the 10s of thousands of bureaucrats this administration has and will hire.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Actually, most of that is lawyers, lobbyists & defense/security contractors.  Next

To finish updating my previous post..

Meanwhile the ag, pharma, defense and many other subsidies, most especially TBTF continue to rocket past all of this manpower costing crap.  Still, the pain of deflation must be shared.  Looks like the major complaint is that gubmit workers pay has, more or less, done a better job of keeping pace with inflation over the past 20 years than the private sector. The aforementioned  (except FIRE workers of course) excluded. Does this mean that Obama should impose wage freezes on the elements of the private sector spared the pain of loss thus far? WOW, I never knew you were a supporter of wage controls Mikla ..  Are price and currency controls coming from ya next?  :D)

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:38 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Miles have you seen the doc film "Food Matters?" Interesting look at Pharma / Nutrition / Health Care

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Yep.  Good ref DJ.  Hope you and yours had a nice break.  Best -

Ragnarok, the explosion of SES employees started in earnest back in 2001 when the previous administration took power and has continued unabated since.  Hence the quality statistics selected for this developing series.  You make it sound like the only place federal employees work is in DC..  ROFLMAO  Of course, in the case of the SES you'd be right.  However, those folks are only doing their two year enlistment of deprivation (and porn streaming) before returning to the private sector at Haliburton, Goldman, JPM or wherever and hardly represent the federal civil service ... The thrust of the article seems to indicate otherwise so I don't wonder at your apparent confusion

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:05 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

Meanwhile the ag, pharma, defense and many other subsidies, most especially TBTF continue to rocket past all of this manpower costing crap.

We agree these "subsidies" should not exist.  However, they are growing because they merely represent bribes to coerce industries to re-align under new government efforts (e.g., Obamacare).  So, it is not surprising that with "greater government spending" the "winners" are the ones that receive government cash.

Still, the pain of deflation must be shared.

Good luck with that.  The government doesn't share like that.  Rather, the government merely picks "winners" and "losers".  Pension holders and those reliant upon public "largess" are the losers.  Government employees are the winners (it remains the only reliable political block).

Looks like the major complaint is that gubmit workers pay has, more or less, done a better job of keeping pace with inflation over the past 20 years than the private sector.

The complaint is that:

  1. the government pays above-market-labor-rates;
  2. "labor" as a cost within government is significant;
  3. these labor rates do not reflect forward liabilities (e.g., unfunded government pensions)
  4. government itself is mere overhead, and there is no cost pressure on government pay/expansion

Does this mean that Obama should impose wage freezes on the elements of the private sector spared the pain of loss thus far? WOW, I never knew you were a supporter of wage controls Mikla

I support market rates for wages (government should not be excepted as "special"), and support pressures to hold/decrease government as a percentage of the economy (because it merely represents overhead).

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Then I suggest you dig a little deeper.  You will be surprised, and disappointed if you're looking for confirmation bias at what you will find.  Just as the rest of the populace has been with greater appreciation of the "FIRE" economy so will the FIRE, and the general private economy gain a better appreciation by actually doing some homework.

Remember, federal pensions moved to a 401K style 20+ years ago (even though the two systems are lumped together as Bruce Krasting discovered recently) so don't confuse federal pensions with state/local, you should be smarter than to fall for that happy crappy.

Most federal salaries are actually below prevailing private sector wages, WG employees (blue collar, like HVAC & plumbers types) excluded since their wages reflect the prevailing local economy.  This especially holds true for the SES as it is well appreciated that  a partner at Goldman will not earn the same for going to treasury to look after the firms interests (that is until they return to the "private" sector) 

One reason there has been an explosion in physicians salaries is due to their chronic inability to keep pace in the past leading to "normalization".  In this I am happier that my VA doc hasn't had their license revoked in five or mare states (a common occurrence previously - thanks loads folks for suggesting we should go back to that).  In this I suppose talent does follow the money which is why so many folks here at ZH are public sector employees.  ROFLMAO  I have said it before and I will again, public service is for fools.  I should have devoted my professional life to investment banking instead.  My choice.  I know that after my son does his bit there will never be another member of my family that will ever consider public service again.  Trust that.  Public service is for dumb fucks too stupid to predate on everyone else.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:44 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

I don't care if all Federal employees make minimum wage, or less.

Rather, government spending, as a percent of the economy, is too high.  It represents mere "overhead" (and typically mal-investment).

There are no cost pressures to this overhead, and mal-investment.  Quite the contrary:  Government pandors to this political block in exchange for power, at the expense of the taxpayer.

Government wages is a significant portion of government expenditures, and cannot be excepted from necessary reduction.

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:22 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

I don't care if all Federal employees make minimum wage, or less.

WOW.  A medial doctor or law enforcement pro making minimum wage.  Wage & price controls is the Mikla answer then.  Thanx for the clarity.

I will go back now for the right compensation package - Miles Kendig

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

What the hell are Doctors doing working for the Federal Government in the first place????? Only if they are serving military doctors, should they be drawing a federal salary-- and we have an officer's pay scale for them.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:28 | Link to Comment mikla
mikla's picture

I don't care if all Federal employees make minimum wage, or less.


WOW.  A medial doctor or law enforcement pro making minimum wage.

Context is important.  Please re-read my statement.

  1. Government employees do not deliver value for the price paid.  (Their individual paycheck is irrelevant.)
  2. Government employees, as a percentage of GDP, represent *far* too great a cost to society.  (They, as a group, cannot be protected against cutbacks.)

On the bright side, there will soon be a US Federal Government Default, and this whole discussion will be moot.

[EDIT] I have no problem with government employees making seven figures, if they deliver value.  Other government employees are overpaid at minimum wage.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:29 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

Oh come on, this is just ridiculous.  I'm a non-union state employee in my 3rd year of pay freezes.  They're stealing my pension while welfare's getting raises and inflation is very real everywhere it counts.  And you think I should take a pay cut because the banks and outsourcers fucked up and want to lecture at me about free lunches?  Look, I get that the average taxpayer is broke, so am I, but it's not the fault of the rank and file worker (private or public) so why's everyone think it should come out of our hides alone?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:35 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Quit complaining and find a job in the private sector.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:46 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

Fuck off you worthless bit-flipping day-trading statist whore.  May the free lunch you're busy stuffing down your gullet be your last.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:23 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

Sorry, 503 duplicate.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Cut the contractors and make private business meet its own needs and the federal budget would shrink >20% overnight.  The savings would be even greater at the local level.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Thank you. Lots of heat with the minimal light shed here. I will grant the 1-3% pay raises that seem to fall like manna yearly, but the overwhelming majority of Fed workers (both Appropriated and Non) get rather mundane salaries once you get away from DC. Why do these articles and posts almost always fail to link a simple GS schedule? Wage Grade has to be competed against proven "prevailing wage" in each locality. Yes, Executive salaries have exploded, but the rank and file can't generally eat the kind of hit that needs to be taken to unwind the recent lunacy. Contractors have been screwing the Government since, well, Government, so "privatization" needs to come without subsidies of any kind to offset the pension savings.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/10tables/index.asp

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:44 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Just think, the linear analytical reasoning of this article and the part of the debate it represents does a marvelous job of mirroring the general appreciation within the public sector, and the general private sector, for what happens within the "FIRE" economy as well.  If anything, this just demonstrates the dimensions of the chasm that needs to be bridged.

Meanwhile, we can tell how happy folks are by what it is they're bitching about.  In this instance the dynamics of "what's in it for me" in a deflationary economy continue to assert.  No small wonder that the last to feel the pain will be where the wealth is concentrated.  One dollar, one vote continues to be the norm regardless of the best efforts at propaganda from the ruling elites.  A major reason there has been an explosion of SES employees and their "performance" bonuses.  Gotta pass out the grub to keep the nasties under wraps, serve the masters and stay in power.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:58 | Link to Comment functionform
functionform's picture

Cut the contractors?  Good luck.  Every conservative that whines about government spending and big government and free market will come out of the woodwork to defend "necessary and essential" programs that cannot be underfunded at this "critical time in American history".

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:27 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Remember, it's "liberal" too.  Just ask Russ Feingold the soon to be former senator from Wisconsin, Feinstein of California and so many more.  Fact remains that there is no real conservative presence in the halls of power just as there is no real progressive presence.  It's all gerbervores

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:08 | Link to Comment flattrader
flattrader's picture

Miles wrote--

>>>Cut the contractors and make private business meet its own needs and the federal budget would shrink >20% overnight.<<<

The profits to KBR, their subsidiaries and other contractors with two open checkbook wars have been mind boggling.

Since US invaded Trashcanistan, we spent nine years and more than $7 billion building and training the Afghan police force.  And this is what we got--

>>>"Who are the police? They are illiterate villagers, many of them users of drugs who come in, they have a six-week training course. Now, how can you teach somebody to read and write, to be a policeman, to defend themselves in six weeks? It just isn't possible. So what emerges is not a policeman, but someone who is marginally more effective at extorting money from his fellow citizens,"<<<

 

>>>Before Caldwell arrived, much of the actual police training was overseen by civilian contractors working for the U.S. State Department. But according to a government audit, there was no "measurement of contractor performance," nor was any "specific…type of training . . . required."

Nevertheless, of the $7 billion the U.S. has spent training the police, over one billion went to pay the contractors.<<<

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7096993n

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:47 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Hell, there are contractors in the DC area pumping the defense/intelligence apparatus for far more than a measly 7bn a year per contract and they'll never face an audit.  Too intrusive.  I'm sure those folks would settle for minimum wage as Mikla and others suggest.  ROFLMAO  Hence the reason I will most likely look to this trough for my next boost.  With my KSA&E I should be able to land 10m a year with a guaranteed bonus + per diem, housing, transportation, personal security, related expenses and stock options, minimum.  Commercial air travel is sooo yesterday!

I will go back now for the right compensation package - Miles Kendig

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:08 | Link to Comment flattrader
flattrader's picture

Miles wrote--

>>>Cut the contractors and make private business meet its own needs and the federal budget would shrink >20% overnight.<<<

The profits to KBR, their subsidiaries and other contractors with two open checkbook wars have been mind boggling.

Since US invaded Trashcanistan, we spent nine years and more than $7 billion building and training the Afghan police force.  And this is what we got--

>>>"Who are the police? They are illiterate villagers, many of them users of drugs who come in, they have a six-week training course. Now, how can you teach somebody to read and write, to be a policeman, to defend themselves in six weeks? It just isn't possible. So what emerges is not a policeman, but someone who is marginally more effective at extorting money from his fellow citizens,"<<<

 

>>>Before Caldwell arrived, much of the actual police training was overseen by civilian contractors working for the U.S. State Department. But according to a government audit, there was no "measurement of contractor performance," nor was any "specific…type of training . . . required."

Nevertheless, of the $7 billion the U.S. has spent training the police, over one billion went to pay the contractors.<<<

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7096993n

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Obama, you've made a mockery of the Presidency and turned federal government into a meandering shambles. In the race for all time worst President, you're moving up the field fast...

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:01 | Link to Comment shushup
shushup's picture

He is 2nd only to Wilson.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:12 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Yes, but he's not finished yet.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:14 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

He can still move up a notch if he issues an Executive Order to suspend the dual mandate  to maximize employment only in existence since the late 1970's...but then he'll need to find some cojones.

The dual mandate is clearly a politicization of the Federal Reserve which they claim to abhor. Ask Carter or Bush 41 about credit contraction or expansion in the six months before elections.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

So true, but I believe Barry can take the prize.  Heckuva job Barry.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:18 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

America got exactly what it deserves to have.

It is impossible to have a free and prosperous country when the overwhelming majority of its people are imbeciles.

After all, the ruling elite may be right believing that political democracy just does not make sense anymore in America.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:17 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

“Thanks to compulsory education and the rotary press, the propagandist has been able, for many years past, to convey his messages to virtually every adult in every civilized country.” - Aldous Huxley

 

know this scoundrel by his name; understand who he is.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller

“For the first time in its history, Western Civilization is in danger of being destroyed internally by a corrupt, criminal ruling cabal which is centered around the Rockefeller interests, which include elements from the Morgan, Brown, Roths...child, Du Pont, Harriman, Kuhn-Loeb, and other groupings as well. This junta took control of the political, financial, and cultural life of America in the first two decades of the twentieth century.”

- Carroll Quigley

“The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and communism under the same tent, all under their control … Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.”

- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 (Flight KAL007) th at was shot down by the Soviets in 1983

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapse

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

That depends on the goals. Some say he is the best Prez ever.

You can't argue he is making progress.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:46 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

If progress is spending the most money ever within a 4 year term, then he wins the gold medal.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:00 | Link to Comment Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

My bottom 5:

1.  FDR

2.  Lincoln

3.  Wilson

4.  LBJ

5.  Teddy Roosevelt

 

Obama has been awful, but he has a ways to go if he's going to eclipse any of these maniacs.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

1. Wilson (central bank whore)

2. Bush I (most outstanding mafioso overall)

3. Bush II (9-11, Patriot Act)

4. Nixon (final death of sound money, most outstanding war criminal)

5. Clinton (Poster boy for final loss of moral compass, worst liar ever (which makes him the best), most effective misdirection and confusion of "progressives", most repugnant overall.

And then there's Barry, with a possible win over this entire stellar cast of miscreant traitorous scum.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I can't argue with your list but LBJ has to be near the top. He was front and center in the coup d'etat and following coverup of the assassination of JFK, who wanted silver backed currency (end the Fed's power) and an end to Vietnam (reign in the CIA/NSA/Military Industrial Complex).   

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:24 | Link to Comment cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

dead-on, B of P

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:18 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

both very sound assessments.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

I saw the series, 'Who killed JFK'. The LBJ episode was the most plausible and I couldn't record it because it was not repeated due to the uproar. Others were.

I also read Robert Caro's book, Means of Ascent, about LBJ. Classic Chicago style politician.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:19 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

ROGUE C.I.A., where conspiracy is NOT a theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX48y4n5EYw&feature=youtube_gdata

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:14 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's "rein in" not "reign in."  I can't believe how often I see that mistake on forums like ZH.  It undermines the point you are making if you leave glaring grammatical errors all over the place.  Typos can be overlooked, your poor education cannot.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

My mistake Mr Top Gun. Double major in college, Poli-Sci and Communications. No need for the cheap shot asshole.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:00 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Just for perspective, that's a $2B "savings" over a full year.

In the mean time Brian "ball" Sack will monetize 5 times that...in one day.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

+10,000  Sack can get on the back of mine and smell the turkey farts.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment spartan117
spartan117's picture

What inflation?  Oh, there it is.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment shushup
shushup's picture

I can't think of a word nasty enough to describe obama. He is a thief, but this is far to nice. Can't wait to kick his ass to the curb.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:02 | Link to Comment SpaceHerpes
SpaceHerpes's picture

This is a terrible oversimplification. Faux News and Glenn Beck will love this Graph. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Why? Please explain in detail or expect to get junked.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:03 | Link to Comment functionform
functionform's picture

Isn't it hilarious that the financial elite think 179K is a lot for a physician?  Maybe they should take another look at the 'free market'.  What about lawyers?  Hmm... surprisingly absent!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:19 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

bah. spaceherpes,

simple is simple. either there *are* that many more payroll/level members, or there *are not*. period.

so it's either *true*, and we should be *glad* the maobama-skeptics highlight it, or it is *false* and the article and should be rescinded/corrected.

unless the truth is slightly inconvenient, or you are a happy recipient of one of those salaries...

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:04 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Biflation is a lazy and cowardly term.  We know where the problems are: government, healthcare, the largest banks.  Cut them to the bone.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:25 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

this is a system designed by bankers/ruling elite to serve the bankers/ruling elite. only asset-backed money and 100% reserve requirements can stop the madness. Of course, I believe nothing short of public executions are in order for Highly Treasonous crimes against the U.S. Constitution and American people.

know this scoundrel by his name; understand who he is.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rockefeller

“For the first time in its history, Western Civilization is in danger of being destroyed internally by a corrupt, criminal ruling cabal which is centered around the Rockefeller interests, which include elements from the Morgan, Brown, Roths...child, Du Pont, Harriman, Kuhn-Loeb, and other groupings as well. This junta took control of the political, financial, and cultural life of America in the first two decades of the twentieth century.”

- Carroll Quigley

“The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and communism under the same tent, all under their control … Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent.”

- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 (Flight KAL007) th at was shot down by the Soviets in 1983

http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapseSee More

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

This is a sick fucking joke on us. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Oquities
Oquities's picture

look for individual "merit" raises to be implemented before 12/31

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Gimp
Gimp's picture

2012 - the end of an error.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:05 | Link to Comment Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Would any of you want a Dr. that is paid significantly below market wages?  I didn't think so. 

The statistics of this post is crap.  You are looking at the tail end of a wage distribution where wage growth will have the maximum % increase.  Look at the mean and median wage levels and compare to similar broad mean and median income levels in the private sector.  Also, adjust for occupation.  The occupational distribution in the Federal workforce is unlikely to be the same as the broad private workforce.  The entire premise of this post isn't logical - it's green-eyed jelousy.  There is definately needed significant Federal spending cut's.  Most should result in the complete eradication of jobs that are not needed, and government hand-outs.  That's where REAL savings are.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:12 | Link to Comment the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

US goverment is the biggest employer.  No way that should even be legal. 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:13 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

This may come as a surprise to you, but I have a friend in Ecuador who has access to a number of retired American doctors. They are humanitarian. In other words, they sell their skills far below market value. In fact, they aren't even it for the "money."

This novel concept, completely foreign in a world that can't stop wanting or possessing shit, may come as a surprise to you AC.

They can't do what they do here. Too many greedy fucks with their hands in their pockets including a Ms. doc paying 90k a year for malpractice insurance, et.al.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

The health-care insurance monopoly has decided that acts of god and death and dogs are off the table and the doctor's practice is really engineering for the corporate robot. The study of baboon society has shown that hoarded and defended poisoned meat kills more than one generation of the non-sympatique trait. The health benefits will do more harm than good for the winners in a conflation with Gresham's Law.

It won't change, Until you do.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:54 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

Get rid of UNLIMITED malpractice claims, and Dr.'s costs would go WAY down.

When a GP has to pay 200k  a year for MP, with ZERO claims,Houston we have a real serious problem.

But, since the Democrats get so much from that lobby, it will never happen.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:17 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

I supsect that people with MBAs are somehow involved in this clusterfuck.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:30 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

funny. 

and their high temple priests, Phd's.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Your proposed view isn't any clearer a picture. And speaking of doctors, have you ever had to rely on Federal medical care?

The reality is pretty clear and blunt, there are far too many on the government payroll and they all get paid too much - especially in light of the fact that the government is absolutely and irreparably bankrupt; financially and ethically.

And the lipstick budget is way out of control.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:00 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

+100

Get the Average salaries ,wages, and bennies for that 10sq mile of dog excrement,and compare them to the private sector, and you will be ill.

The latest data a couple of months ago was D.C. was the leading area in America for employment, and good wages.

When the number of people on the governments payroll(producing nothing) is  FAR more than the private sector(producing everything),its easy to see why we are falling off a cliff.

Limited Government, our Founders had it, meant for us to keep it that way, but..................

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:19 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

There hasn't been a free market in health care since the Johnson administration.  That's when the Doctahs got rich at taxpayer expense.

Comparing file clerks with workers in the private sector is absurd.  Get a real job and quit stealing from decent and productive citizens.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:36 | Link to Comment mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Government salaries are hand-outs.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 14:09 | Link to Comment cbxer55
cbxer55's picture

I'd agree on the ones making six figures riding a desk. But what of folks like myself, who actually get our hands dirty every day maintaining military aircraft. I make considerably less than $50,000 a year, working on surveillance aircraft. Not fighters or bombers, but communications platforms, the U.S. Navy E-6 Mercury.

And while I will agree that there are some who "work" around me who to not contribute greatly, and thus should not be there, there are some of us who get things done. We only have the planes for a short length of time, and a lot of work must be accomplished in that period.

Until the world becomes such a safe place that surveillance aircraft are no longer needed, it is imperative to keep them in tip-top condition. Same with the fighters and bombers. The world is not a safe place.

I agree that a large amount of the desk- riders could go, and probably not be missed. And most of them are way overpayed for what they do.

I do not have a problem with my salary being stuck for two years. It just means I will not be purchasing anything more during that two years but what is absolutely necessary. My salary frozen, so are that of the business's that are selling goods. Lets see ho many more of them close in the next two years.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:21 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Well, the "world" would be a hell of a lot safer (for us) if the US government pursued a less imperial foreign policy.  Just look at the Wikileaks release and you can see how the US's so-called allies have manipulated us into all kinds of unethical and unspeakable policy actions, all of which have led us inevitably to the present situation.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

So your initial argument is that Federal workers are competent...............

Just public service minded. No desires to work in the private sector..............

I think we are done.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:01 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I agree that there's no refinement in these numbers but the flip side is that the sheer number of workers being hired at the Federal level is overwhelming...TSA, 16k new IRS, Homeland Security is huge! Even at modest salaries with benefits and guaranteed pay increases we cannot get in the private sector it is still a problem. The problem remains that ther government sector is growing voraciously as the private sector (outside of Wall Street) is contracting. Unabated it will end up on its head.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

federal workers earn less than private workers for comparable jobs

How the FUCK is "none" comparable to a Federal job?

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

And there you have it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:07 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

My thought exactly. What equivalent do most of the paper pushers have in the private sector? My guess is that they compare the TSA worker who looks at the scanner to a radiologist in a hospital who makes a couple hundred large and say he/she's behind the private sector. With union help that scanner will soon make $200k. I remember back in the 90's when I lived in Jersey the toll booth workers on the Parkway could make $80k/yr. And they weren't even nice to you for that kind of money. That was about 20% more than I was making as a college educated white collar worker in corporate headquarters back then. I'm sure they were behind private sector compensation, too.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:42 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

What equivalent do most of the paper pushers have in the private sector?

Have you actually had a private sector job in the last decade?  Well I have and I can tell you the public sector doesn't have a monopoly on useless bureaucracy.  You just try to disquise them with clever titles (Master of Business Administration, for instance) to avoid calling them what they really are.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 18:09 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Been in the private sector most my life. Yes, companies have people with vague titles and responsibilities but they have a bottom line they have to hit or go out of business. I like to redefine profit as "The reward for efficiency." In government there is no reward (profit) so there is no incentive for efficiency. It is permanently ingrained in the system. In the private sector the company is spending its own money and if it fails to be sufficiently efficient compared to its pricing ability it will go out of business. Now, if you are GM or a bank the inefficient government will sympathize and use tax money to bail you out.

To branch out from your comment, the reason that all Republican and occasional Democrat efforts to reduce government spending will fail is because they will not stop asking government to do stuff. So, the inefficient ever growing bureaucracy stays in place. You can trim it like a weed occasionally but its mandates stay in place and it will grow again in time. To truly reduce spending you have to eliminate whole agencies and what you asked them to do...like the Dept.s of Agriculture, Education or even EO.  New politicians will give it more to do in all likelihood to generate nice TV soundbites. Watch the practice of medicine as government takes over. It will turn into a nightmare. Going to the doc will be as much fun as going to the DMV.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:07 | Link to Comment RagnarDanneskjold
RagnarDanneskjold's picture

A gradual and prudent reduction of salaries would be a conservative approach and deflect a lot of criticism. Even a 5% cut and then a freeze would cool a lot of jets. Instead, Obama is serving the federal workforce on a platter to populist anger. The next President/Congress will now be able to achieve much larger cuts, get them to go on strike, and then deal with them Reagan-style.

PATCO, bitches.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:07 | Link to Comment jal
jal's picture

Its a wage freeze! Its not a promotion freeze.

Get with the program ... the cost will be going up, not frozen, not going down.

 

In case you forgot there is a shortage of regulators who can go after the fraud. Therefore, do not expect any jail time.

 

jal

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:08 | Link to Comment Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

No I am not a Federal or State employee, nor affiliated with ANY union.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:21 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

An apologist then?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:08 | Link to Comment The Axe
The Axe's picture

Ha ha   you expected him to CUT.......

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:11 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Bulls are now on edge.

Ready to pull the trigger if the 50-day breaks.

Resource stocks are getting killed.  However, the bank stocks are outperforming today, need to watch those closely.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:52 | Link to Comment cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

methiks its reeaaalll early in the day, Robo. Bank stocks "outperform" WTF? Oh...I get it...ya mean less negative LOL

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:23 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

irrational as it seems, banks have actually been in the green through most of the day. tempering the carnage elsewhere...

go figure.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:56 | Link to Comment hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

ZION is a little canary down in the coal mine?

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:11 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

first and foremost he is pres of and for the unions (including gov't employees)

reason for GM ipo

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/nov/25/gms-union-on-road-to-recovery-after-stock-sale/

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:12 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

obama the cutter. like with the deficit. gun it up to 20 trill then cut a few million and tout the cuts

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

As a political tactician, I guess he is average.  He seems to be using all the "base hit" strategies.  Wage freeze which is "symbolic", a powerless bi-partisian commision on reducing the debt.  Volker as head of his econ team, etc.  All textbook boring plays to keep himself bouncing along.  Nothing fun to watch like Prez Clinton or Reagan.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:31 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I disagree. I think on the whole Obama has bad political instincts. He doesn't do the simple things, like going to Arlington Cemetary on Memorial Day or vacationing in the Gulf of Mexico instead of Spain. The only politically smart thing he's done lately is veto the foreclosure speed-up bill.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I do stand corrected.  I was unaware of some of these other follies. Most likely since they are not reported (and I spend zero time looking into them).  If the media attack dogs ever turn, things will get really bad.  My wife often cites stories of Brazilian politics: T.V. picks a candidate and promotes.  simultaniously, attacks foe.  Once in office, if the backed politician does not go along with the TV, they are attacked relentlessly.  Are we different?  A long time ago I thought we were.

ahh the good ole days.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:51 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Everything is the same except our "football" is not round

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:24 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

simple. true. brilliant.

10,000 years of hope and change.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Double down
Double down's picture

Did GM have to close below $33 or just "visit"?  I do not remember and too lazy to look it up.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

On:

National Treasury Employees Union  President Colleen Kelley counters that the proposed raise "is a modest amount and should be implemented" to help make salaries more comparable with those in the private sector.

If salaries were not comparable to the private sector before, then why the heck didn't the government employees leave and go into the private sector?

Perhaps the unemployment in the private sector should be reflected in the government sector?  How about 22% unemployment for the government sector to bring it in line with the private sector?  Actually, adjusting for the fact that government employees never are laid off, the government employee numbers should be cut about 30%.

Anyone for cutting the number all government employees by 30%?

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:21 | Link to Comment NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Here's a proposal for Colleen Kelley if she wants so badly to be like the private sector...we will give you your raises to be competitive with the private sector IF you accept the immediate ending of all government pension programs and retiree benefits and replace them with a 401K program, just like the private sector.  

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:28 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

duplicate

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:27 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

"IF you accept the immediate ending of all government pension programs and retiree benefits and replace them with a 401K program, just like the private sector.  "

That is a strawman argument, and makes it sound like shilling for the government unions.

Federal employees since 1989 have not been in a defined benefit retirement program.  They have had to contribute to a 401K like program.

The real problem is the real growth in the number of federal employees, and the high salaries.

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:36 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Not true. Federal employees get both a defined benefit retirement equal to 1% of their high three salary years for every year worked (if they work for at least 10 years), and they also get a 401K-like program called the TSP.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

The current defined benefit plan is pretty small, and given that federal employees do not participate in SSDI, is somewhat comparable.  The old defined benefit plan was 3%/annum.

What is not comparable is that federal employees do not get docked the 7.5% SSDI tax, making federal salaries about 6.5% higher than comparable private employees.

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:04 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Yes, but pensions are very powerful things to have. I'm going to get about $1000 a month. It doesn't sound like much, but in a low-interest rate environment the amount of money you would have to save up to generate $1000 a month is quite large. Even if you could earn 2% on your money, you would need $600K to generate $1000 a month in interest.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:25 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

$1000/month is less than Social security.

The reason that social security raises have not been given is that pensioners are too old and tired to demonstrate, and too poor to contribute to unions or candidates.

This pay freeze was to head off a massive rebellion by the public who see SSDI benefits frozen and federal grandees  get another 1.4% larding.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:30 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

they get SS too.

to update: "a trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon it becomes real mon..."

i could be warren buffet, and i'd happily take $1000/month more.

the overall system is simply wrong. revisit the entire premise of progressive cradle-to-grave "insurance", and the conversation begins again.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Beef Supreme
Beef Supreme's picture

Under the current system, FERS, federal workers do pay SSDI taxes.  It was under the old CSRS system which included the 3% defined benefit pension that Social Security taxes were neither collected nor could participants in CSRS collect SS.  CSRS was phased out in 1983 and replaced with FERS.

Current federal employees pay SSDI and are eligible to receive benefits based on their contributions as with a state or privately employed worker.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:55 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

The volume of disinformation mindlessly parroted by, if not spewing forth from, the masses is truly a sight to behold.  State employees do in fact pay the SS/MC tax, on top of the pension contributions along with an ever-increasing share of their health care.  I know you guys have a complete and utter inability to tell the middle class tax appeals guy next door apart from the billionaires running the treasury into the ground, but how many excuses are we supposed to make for the uppity "private" sector trolls that make a living off of government largesse?  Go ahead and fire all workers everywhere, you easily-controlled fools will still be paying skyrocketing taxes for nothing and the best part is that you'll never even have a clue what hit you.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Try 50%. Line'm up, have them count off. Evens get sacked forthwith, odds get 90-day probation.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:27 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

You are right.

But remember that government employees are the safety insurance for the Ruling Elite and the oligarchy.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Cut Government departments by 30% (or more). Use the Constitution for crib notes.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 17:43 | Link to Comment chopper read
chopper read's picture

i believe you are being generous.  60% should be in soup lines and shelters today.  then, we implement an asset backed currency with 100% reserve requirements.  then, honor and restore our republic of laws protecting individual property rights.  only these measures enabling decentralization will allow America to regain a economic footing.

collapse is eminent. 

 http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/how-do-we-arrive-eve-our-collapse

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:12 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Me, me, me! I'd vote for that. I always noted too that the most unmotivated, mediocre, do-the-minimum people wanted to work for government. How much should that kind of person make? The private sector equivalent is "You're fired!"

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:14 | Link to Comment sbenard
sbenard's picture

The Deceiver in Chief has spoken. We need a ROLL-BACK, not a freeze at inflated salaries!

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Milton Waddams
Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:19 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

 I believe that government workers should make good salaries, but they should demand efficiency in return. Otherwise you have people that aren't competent or if they are they will go to the private sector. Having said that in times of recession government workers ( especially congressmen )should not recieve pay raises. There should be accountability in performance.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:33 | Link to Comment mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Incompetance is firmly entrenched in the government workforce.  Incompetants don't become competants when you pay them more, and incompetants only hire incompetants.

Pay them like the welfare cases they are.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:48 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

 Thats where accountability comes in. Personally I think that most government employees should be fired especially those at the top. With no accountability there is incompetence in any sector.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:37 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

+++ mm,

heh... while we have chronic proof that they're incompetent at their general work/tasking, it could be argued they're quite competent at retirement planning...

re: "Pay them like the welfare cases they are."

are you suggesting we should raise welfare to federal employee levels, or lower federal emplo...

lol. i know better than to even joke about stuff like that... they might be reading this (nm, that implies competence...)

 

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:06 | Link to Comment GoatETF
GoatETF's picture

The span of effort to go from bad to good is not nearly as signficiant as what is required to move from good to great.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:34 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Efficiency in government? It is simply not possible, barring a wholesale change in human nature. Bureaucracies are, by their nature, directly accountable to no one. The taxpayer is too far removed, and politicians come and go.

No, "efficient government" is an oxymoron. It is simply not possible in the real world.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:42 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

indeed. the reality is that humans just don't scale very well.

we just don't.

and even with absolute (but earthly) power, i'm not sure what i'd do to fix things (certainly not a eugenics-based direction).

i suppose a good start would be to quickly get out of the intervention business and see where things go naturally, before deciding how to manage it all - kind of a clean-slate roto-rooter sort of approach.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

Singapore government appears to be somewhat efficient.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Remember too, that under healthcare reform we will be hiring about 16,500 new IRS workers. They will add to the draw on taxes while making sure you contribute more.

"Jessica Klement, government affairs director at the Federal Managers Association, says the government's official pay analysis shows that federal workers earn less than private workers for comparable jobs. Still, she says, managers are willing to give up next year's raise: "If it will help the country bounce back, they're willing to make the sacrifice.""

Makes you wonder what survey they do. I bet its like the new CPI numbers which leave out energy and food. It's probably the same group that did CEO pay the last two decades. Everyone I know is either unemployed, flat pay or like myself, pay cuts to stay employed. I'm a white collar professional with lots of blue collar friends and family and we all have been going down the last two years. I just took another 5% pay cut and have to move to stay employed. Then I read this article?

Welcome to the all powerful state. As a libertarian oriented guy this is exactly what you get when you ask or even let the State do everything and anything. These charts don't cover your local state and county employees either. Remember the cases in CA with million dollar mayors?

The other thing to remember is that these people produce NOTHING! NOT A DAMN THING! They are regulators, paper shufflers and widget counters. They are a dead weight loss/drag on the economy! You can at least argue that an overpaid union auto worker actually produces something and an overpaid CEO runs a company that provides services or products. These people have to be supported by the productivity of you and I on top of what we want to earn for ourselves.

 The founding fathers were right in that the best government is essentially no government; one with very limited duties and powers. This socialism-statism turns the productive world on it's head. Wall Street and the Feds are the best paid. Does anyone see a connection?

This is outrageous as we suffer 50% deficits and about 18% unemployment. I am angry and I want to fight someone and there is nothing tangible to fight...and I am usually a cool headed rationalist.

God bless all of us in the productive sector...or what's left of it.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

FG, really well said. +100

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 15:49 | Link to Comment i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

hold tight, fg.

this monster moves slowly, but it moves.

your sentiments are sound, and you are very-much not alone. (the tea-party is but a small pimple of a groundswell that is looming out there)

let the MSM beat the TP up, leaving the rest of us millions to watch, prepare, and wait to act. i have *no* idea what it will look like, but when the time comes, we'll know what to do.

have faith. cover your bases. wait. watch.

cheers.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

By the way the salary freeze is useless.

All government employees get an automatic payraise each year that is outside any raise in the pay schedule.

On top of that, promotions are not limited and can be handed out like candy at Halloween.

On top of that, many employees receive regular bonuses (yes bonuses in the federal government!) that could be, well adjusted, changed, whatever.

Then of course, federal employees accrue vacation every year which gets longer each in residence.

Yeah, a pay freeze will do it.  That will stop the growth of federal employee pay.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:33 | Link to Comment lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

PF... some of what you say is true, some is BS. Auto payraises, not true. Cost of living raises hinged to CPI mostly true. Promotions kind of true, but mostly not. Bonuses mostly not true at all. Vaca and sick accruals that always go up- mostly true until capped.

Mon, 11/29/2010 - 12:40 | Link to Comment Printfaster
Printfaster's picture

On

"Auto payraises, not true."

Beg to differ.  If they are not automatic, then each pay level has about 10 steps basically one for each review, or one for each year.  Usually if you are not promoted within 10 years you are bounced.  They are about as automatic as most US car transmissions.

All of my statements stand as facts.  Yes there are qualifications to each, but Federal pay is out of control and worrying about details, is well unnecessary .

 

 

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